Navy

[DviddLeff]

Cant quite believe no one has posted this yet.

One of the most talked about potential expansions for PS was that of the Navy, with players able to purchase boats, submarines and ships and fight across either new water based continents or between the areas between the continents.

Personally I never found the idea that appealing due to the requirement to build whole new maps, but as the game is being redone perhaps now is the perfect time to re-evaluate the idea.

I will be putting together a new page on the Upgrade Project about this idea, with my vision for how the system could work, and I want your suggestions and ideas to help.

Few questions to help guide the process:

Should outfits or individuals be able to purchase larger ships?
Would you prefer to use them as a method of moving and fighting between continents, either instead of the warpgates or in addition to them?
Should they be confined to the existing continents borders and new continents designed specifically for them?
Should they be fully naval, or have the option of hovering over land like a mobile base?

[Yuriusu]

If they used the same planets in PS:N, Cyssor should be the special naval planet. Just as the description of current cyssor says, the planet itself is falling apart.

In PS:N, the water level has gone up and there are little or no bridges. There are 3 major harbors, one for each empire. The harbors are the size of one of the HART stations in the sanc, having many vehicle and air terms (basically, never wait in line for your vehicle). Scattered throughout the map are supply depots air fields, radar stations, and other places of special interest, but few spawn points on the ground (to keep the fight on the water)

An outfit or a group of outfits can purchase ships ranging from destroyers, submarines, transport and supply ships, and the most expensive ship being an aircraft carrier. It would take months and a certain amount of high-ranking commanders to aquire an aircraft carrier to keep their numbers low. Major ships would act as spawn points, again to keep the fight on the water. Many things could be done to further customise ships like radar enhancement, speed, hull thickness, etc. They could even go as far as having empire-specific capital ships. Outfits would be able to physically dock their ships in the harbor when they are not in use.

The objective of the planet is to eventually take over the other empire's harbor, an event that is very difficult to pull off and will rarely happen... kind of like a sanc lock. The harbors would have 2-3 points to capture before it is taken. When this happens, the losing empire loses all their docked ships, possibly handing them over to the winning empire.

Cyssor would be totally different from any other planet being the only one having naval warfare. It would be dominated by huge air raids and epic fights on the water. It would greatly promote team work and tactics, being that air vehicles have a limited amount of fuel and cant stray too far from the aircraft carrier.

The reason i wanted to keep naval warfare to a single map was to keep the other maps strictly armor/infantry/air maps. I think having separate naval warfare on every map would thin out the fight too much. Plus it would support "The Bending". Although if they did go back to being on one planet, i would definitely support global naval warfare.

If they couldn't pull this off on the launch of PS:N, it could be a free, mini-expansion. They could do something like this to every planet every couple months, giving each planet its own unique play style. this would keep the game fresh and interesting.

Wouldn't that be cool? :D

[DviddLeff]

Oh, I found Hayoo's ideas for a similar system:

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/idea_beachassault.shtml

[Jonny]

I kinda think they should polish what they have, instead of putting a ton of resources into something extra now which might not be that fun. Then again if they've done it already, great.

In the naaaavyyyy......

[Wrath]

i'd much rather see them put more effort into getting land and air right then bring in naval ships that would rarely be used and most likely fairly boring.

other faults in your idea Yuriusu is having win conditions so that bases are rarely capped whos going to fight over a make for day/weeks in order to win. and also who is going to cert into navy just to be able to use it on 1 map?

[I SandRock]

I think it's hard to implement water and I wouldn't want them to spend all that time into developing that side of the game and only use it on one planet. Perhaps as an expansion later on.

You'd need bases with water access for instance and then there would have to be water all over the place connecting bases, it seems difficult to do. I mean, the idea is awesome, just feel implementation could be hard or require a lot of effort for little benefit.

[Lartnev]

I like the idea of an aircraft carrier that can be used to help defend or, more importantly, assist striking locked continents. An empire can only have one carrier at a time and it can only be spawned/piloted by the highest rank of command (assuming that PSN improves the scarcity of such people). It can travel to any continent with a coastline (again assuming Auraxis is one planet again) and starts at the edge of the map and has to be sailed to where it's needed (it's gonna be slow!)

However it can spawn troops, strike aircraft (I hope there's a mini-galaxy in PSN), and amphibious vehicles (anything smaller than a medium tank that floats). Anything bigger has to come from bases or through warp gates but it opens up another angle of attack and provides repair pads for aircraft attacking or defending.

Given that there's only one per empire, an aircraft carrier is an important prize to be taken by the enemy (maybe you can capture them allowing for more than one). I don't know if that means expanding naval capabilities to protect or destroy carriers but there should definitely be an announcement if an empire loses its carrier. The spawn timer should be reasonably long (30 minutes+) and starts when the carrier is destroyed (giving enemies the upper hand and makes it a valuable asset to defend).

[Firefly]

It wouldn't require rebuilding maps - you simply add a few offshore platforms as bases, maybe park an aircraft carrier as a base.

Add an underwater assault weapon, an underwater MAX, rebreather implant, some sort of propulsion system or allow swimming, and a few small surface vessels. Maybe a submersible.

[Hamma]

If they do add naval combat they need to make it so people don't sink to the bottom of the ocean when they fall in. Apparently people forgot how to swim in the future.. :lol:

[Peacemaker]

What Id like to see

Capital Ships: Battleship, Aircraft Carrier
Outfit Ships (Outfit points): Battlecruiser
Common Pool Ships: Cruiser, Landing Assault Ship, Hovercraft LST, Infantry Landing Craft, Submarine, Patrol Boat
Empire Specific Ships: Destroyer, Frigate

The AA weapons on ships should be limited in a way that air attacks arnt suicidal. Direct fire weapons only for AA?

Three New Maps - Each of the three maps has 2/3 "Links" to other maps, acting similarly to a warp gate these locations let you bring naval forces to non naval maps.

Each Map has 3 small Islands with one base on each. 3 Underwater bases. 3 Sea Platform Bases, Capital is in the center.

Common Pool ships can be produced at sanc, or a few bases near water on normal maps.

Empire Specific and Outfit ships can only come from one of the water map's Sea Platform base.

Capital Ships can only come from one of the 3 sea maps capital Sea Platform Base, and the empire that wishes to spawn them must own atleast 40% of the bases on the map.

Ship Info
Aircraft Carrier - One Per Empire Basicly a floating mobile base. An empire needs to control atleast one Naval Map Capital to use their aircraft carrier. If they don't own one the carrier isn't around. Upon Capturing their first Capital the carrier undocks there. If an empire loses its only Naval Capital their carrier will return to it and dock, becomming inaccessable. It provides a radar coverage area for the empire that shows any non submarine vehicle (On land too for the distance of an SOI) In the rear is a Vpad capable of spawning PT boats and infantry landing ships. Air terms up top (Maybe Aircraft carrier only aircraft?) Lots of AA, and 2/4 Anti Surface weapons ship has decent automatic defense but can be maned. A person who has Certed Capital Ships can control the "General Destination" of the ship once every 3 hours, but cannot Drive it. It goes to a rough location, and then circles.

Two ways to sink it, boarding parties destroy key areas of the ship (Engines, Bildge Pumps, Generator, and a few areas of the hull.) Second Method is a Battleship. Battleships Can sink a carrier with direct shelling for a period of maybe half an hour. It should be TOUGH to sink this thing with direct fire from anything else, but it should be possible. Carrier has a "CC" which is susceptible to a virus Immune to OS

Carrier Recovery-
When a carrier is sunk it does not decon and can then be respawned. The owning empire needs to send frogmen down to....

1. "Hack the CC" Game mechanics would describe this as restoring the computer systems. A timer is given of 20 minutes. Enemy empires can prevent the hack with their own frogmen during this 20 minutes.
2. Repair the damaged areas (Only after the hack has gone through)
3. Ship surfaces and automaticly heads for the nearest Naval Capital. It must be defended on the way (It cannot produce anything, but you can spawn on it and pull from Equip terms)
4. After reaching the Naval Capital the ship docks for two hours, and is then repaired and back to normal.

Battleships- Three per Empire allowed on a map at any time. (Not like the carrier ONE PER EMPIRE PERIOD) Can only be spawned at Naval Capitals. Respawn timer is two days. 4 Deck Guns 3 rifles per gun with artillary beyond Visual Range Ability, 6 (3 per side) 75mm Cannons 4 12mm Chainguns for AA 2 for 2 aft Limited Arcs. Deck guns require one man each. Can spawn infantry. Has small aircraft rearm pad at rear. Can Spawn camera drone (Gunners use these to direct shell fire) Similar to BF1942 arty. This ship is driven like any other vehicle but certs are needed to use the deck guns, use the camera drone, and something like 8 cert points to drive it. Ship has unlimited ammo. Not Immune to OS

The Outfits Battlecruiser:

3 Deck Guns, 3 rifles per gun, lower damage but same range as battleship with Beyond Visual Range ability. Slightly better AA than the Battleship. Aircraft Pad at rear of ship. 2 Mossies and 2 Reavers stored in hanger. To get more ship must rearm at a dock. Can spawn camera drone. Certs needed to drive and use camera drone. Can spawn infantry and has a pad capable of producing infantry landing ships. Ship has unlimited ammo. Half the HP of a Battleship. Immune to OS

Common Pool Ships:
Cruiser 3 Deck guns *but only two barrels on each* can shoot Beyond Visual Range but has less range and damage than a Battlecruiser. 2 single 35mm Chainguns for AA 2 12mm Chainguns for AA (Bout what two Deliverers could do) Requires cert to drive. Can be spawned at any base with a naval spawn. Limited ammo.

Landing Assault Ship Able to spawn ground vehicles (non Tech) and place them in a small ship. The driver of the vehicle in the ship drives it to its destination. Has no defences. Can Spawn Hovercraft LSTs Can spawn one AMS every 10 minutes. Deliverers spawn directly in water.

Hovercraft LST similar to the ships carrying vehicles above, can carry a squad of infantry, 2 Max, 1 Light Vehicle. Similar to a galaxy, has two 12mm chain guns. Can drive inland. For assaulting normal continents with flat terrain.

Infantry Assault Ships: Spawnable from several larger ships. Carries a full squad (no MAX) to the shore of a target. Fast. Manuverable. 1 12mm Chaingun.

Subs: Two man crew. No surface weapons, No AA, Slow submerged, kinda fast on surface. Max time underwater 10 minutes. Carries 10 torpedoes with 4 loaded at a time. Two types of torpedoes, Camera Guided Kinetic Impactors, and Dumbfire Explosive. Kinetic Impactors do no damage to ships, they are for anti submarine warfare. Dumbfire Torpedos are aimed from near the surface and are used to sink surface ships, or a sub on the surface. Driver has a sonar display, torpedo man has periscope. Driver must communicate to torpedo man for enemy subs when submerged. Sub can carry 6 frogmen passengers for tactical insertions.

Patrol Boats have 4 dumbfire torpedos 2 12mm chainguns, and 1 fore mounted grenade launcher (similar to the marauders main gun) Very Fast. Very shallow draft.

Empire Specific ships

Destroyer: 3 Empire specific deck guns (2 for 1 aft). *TR get twin barrel 100mm Vanu get a flail like cannon (Magrider Main gun is ridiculous) NC get single 150mm Vanguard cannon) 2 Empire Specific AA weapons *TR get double barreled 15mm chainguns, VS get Lasher like weapon with very fast projectile speed, NC get 20mm chainguns* in addition all 3 get a pair of 35mm chainguns

Destroyer drivers have depth charges and sonar.

Frigates - 2 deck guns *TR get mortar like on marauder NC get the Enforcer rocket launcher VS get a cannon like the magrider driver gun with better damage vs Armor* 1 Empire AA weapon like the destroyer.

And there you have it. Carriers Battleships and Battle cruisers can all be boarded and stood on by infantry and MAXs giving additional protection. Yes I know this is alot of Dev time, but it would be epic.

[Firefly]

If they do add naval combat they need to make it so people don't sink to the bottom of the ocean when they fall in. Apparently people forgot how to swim in the future.. :lol:
Yes, swim mechanics. Or a rebreather implant.

[duck]

I think it would be a cool idea to implement naval warfare. Instead of a base, factions would have to control a battleship or something and players would have to defend the battleship.

I do think tons of resources are needed for this

[Raymac]

Few questions to help guide the process:

Should outfits or individuals be able to purchase larger ships?
Yes and Yes.
Would you prefer to use them as a method of moving and fighting between continents, either instead of the warpgates or in addition to them?
In addition to warpgates.
Should they be confined to the existing continents borders and new continents designed specifically for them?
Yes.
Should they be fully naval, or have the option of hovering over land like a mobile base?
Yes. Have both.


My extremely brief and inadequate responses in blue.

[Yuriusu]

What Id like to see

Empire Specific ships

Destroyer: 3 Empire specific deck guns (2 for 1 aft). *TR get twin barrel 100mm Vanu get a flail like cannon (Magrider Main gun is ridiculous) NC get single 150mm Vanguard cannon)


i think NC should have some sort of gauss cannon. packs a heavy punch and a slow reload time. It would go with the NC theme, plus they already use gauss weaponry

[Wrath]

you know what makes me laugh about all suggestions for PS:N i've seen on here over the last month is that it seems people think adding more vehicles to the game or creating specific roles for x,y,z is gonna make the game more fun.

for me its some PS:N should not over reach it should stick true to the orginal should build on its strengths and improve its flaws.

now adding a whole new game element of which there was no experince in the previous game which has never been done to any sucess in any other game it silly.

BF1942 had naval maps had navys where either the naval maps or navys any fun hell no.

and trying to dilute development time away from the air/vehcile/infantry balance is a bad thing.

[Rbstr]

Yeah, I think water warfare would be neat.
However, I'd keep it quite a bit more simple than basically adding a whole new game like Peace and others propose. KISS baby, KISS:

Tweak the maps so that on a most continents rivers and lakes come up very close to a number of bases (Cyssor is a prime candidate for one that is more water than the rest). Leave in ground transport options intact for the most part but make them less convenient. Perhaps a couple offshore platforms on most continents too.
Have at least one continent have lots of swamp so boats can be on it, but infantry can run in it too. Interconnectedness of the various lagoons on that map is important. (IIRC the A-something continent was kind of like that?)

Off-shore platforms must be reasonably vulnerable to attack from air and contain a tower-like second spawn point so once you get there infantry can continue to spawn there. Otherwise the offshore will become retardedly hard to capture.

3 types of boat:
Landing craft - Common pool, basically a galaxy worth of troops, including light vehicle capacity. Has a couple mortar/shelling gun of some kind (anti infantry less than any armor/ship, like a dual barreled 75mm kinda think) and a flak gun or some other kind of quite effective AA weapon. Least maneuverable.
Patrol Boat - Think PBR. # empire specific boats. 3/4 dudes total, heavy and effective longer ranged anti-infantry number on front, something sort of anti-armor in back. Both have very wide arcs of fire. TR can has additional AI gun on top with a 360 arc. One or the other gun will do decent AA damage. This boat will be quick and maneuverable. Think like a jet-boat. Still a decent amount of armor.
Assault Ship - A tank on water with no AI capability. 2(3TR) people. We're talking very effective against armor. Preference goes toward something that shoots quite strait, long range accuracy is important. NC for instance could get a crazy railgun. TR could get two A-10 warthog kind of guns. Just to make VS weird they can get a lock-on/guided energy mortar thingy.


What I feel this does: Add boats in a way so it doesn't really become a separate thing from normal ground combat, Air/land/water all have effects on one another.
The transport can lay the hurt on airplanes, the patrol can sort of hold its own, the Assault Ship is a sitting duck to planes.
Infantry will hate the patrol boat if they're close to water, appreciate the landing craft at a number of bases. They won't really have much to do with the Assualt ship, it's got too much armor but it doesn't have AI weapons anyway.
Armor will do okay at beating off landing craft from beach heads, rofl-stomp PT boats that sit still but not emerge unscathed from groups of them and tremble in fear of the Assault ship near water.
Within the boats, the Assault ship is king. The PT can run away rather easily but the landing craft must be protected. The Landing craft can scare away a PT fairly well.

They key is that water-based vehicles are going to be quite vulnerable, they have very limited escape opportunity compared to land or air. That means they need to be very effective at their job or have lots of HP.
The other thing is that the could fit in transport/buggy/tank certs....that's KEY if there is a map that absolutely needs them. If you only have one situation where it's 100% needed there will always be too few people with the certs.

[I SandRock]

It wouldn't require rebuilding maps - you simply add a few offshore platforms as bases, maybe park an aircraft carrier as a base.

Add an underwater assault weapon, an underwater MAX, rebreather implant, some sort of propulsion system or allow swimming, and a few small surface vessels. Maybe a submersible.

You'd need water access all across the map for water vessels to have any use beyond 10minutes in which there is fighting going on around that river :p

[Traak]

Instead of naval units, maxes, boats, etc, we can just add swimming to the already ponderous list of crap the Mosquito can do. Then we can all cert AA and call the game Pestiside!

[Yuriusu]

you know what makes me laugh about all suggestions for PS:N i've seen on here over the last month is that it seems people think adding more vehicles to the game or creating specific roles for x,y,z is gonna make the game more fun.

for me its some PS:N should not over reach it should stick true to the orginal should build on its strengths and improve its flaws.

now adding a whole new game element of which there was no experince in the previous game which has never been done to any sucess in any other game it silly.

BF1942 had naval maps had navys where either the naval maps or navys any fun hell no.

and trying to dilute development time away from the air/vehcile/infantry balance is a bad thing.


Thats exactly why i wanted to keep it on one map, not on every map. It would keep the other maps normal and balanced. And like I said, it could be a mini expansion a couple months after official release.

And I dont know what your talking about with BF1942..I had tons of fun on Coral Sea/Iwo Jima/Midway :D

[Lartnev]

Thats exactly why i wanted to keep it on one map, not on every map. It would keep the other maps normal and balanced. And like I said, it could be a mini expansion a couple months after official release.

I don't think people will put time, effort, and certification points into something that only applies to one continent. Unless naval combat is spectacular or breeds a hardcore following of sailors. :)

[Yuriusu]

I don't think people will put time, effort, and certification points into something that only applies to one continent.

Well I don't see the need for any certs that would only apply to naval content. The way I see it, the main ships (carriers, destroyers, subs, etc.) are bought and owned by an outfit or outfits. The requirements to operate one depends on your command rank, not spending cert points. Outfits could assign captains and the ranks to certain ships. That would be REALLY cool because captains would have that genuine feeling of having their own ship and crew. Plus the captains could name their ships, which would be awesome :D

Smaller ships could be pulled if you're the leader of a squad or platoon, thus still keeping away from the need to spend certs, but still keeping the numbers low so not just anyone can pull a ship if they want to.

Basically, the ship system should be structured around command rank, not cert points.

As for other naval-only content, they could just be included in their respectful certs (any type of AV, engineering) if you really don't want to spend any points.

[Wrath]

Well I don't see the need for any certs that would only apply to naval content. The way I see it, the ships are bought and owned by an outfit or outfits. The requirements to operate one depends on your command rank, not spending cert points. Outfits could assign captains and the ranks to certain ships. That would be REALLY cool because captains would have that genuine feeling of having their own ship and crew.

As for other naval-only content, they could just be included in their respectful certs (any type of AV, engineering) if you really don't want to spend any points.


right so what about the people who arent in outfits?

the whole thing to me sounds like a whole new core combat you'll have an area that isnt worth fighting over is hard to organise and fight for and that nobody will go to.

the whole goal of any of the 3 factions is to get a lock out total control over all the maps doesnt happen very often and its extremely hard to pull off but thats the goal. your idea for the map just doesnt fit in anywhere with PS game play. each faction has a harbour which is extremely hard to win and changes hands very rarely. means that just winning control of this map sounds like a ballache.

seriously i'm more then happy for big ship fleet combat to be left to the simulators and eve online. to me it has no place in PS;N

[BlazingSun]

I would rather want to see Urban warfare in the game (or even Space/Orbit combat). Naval Combat? Not so much.

[Hamma]

you know what makes me laugh about all suggestions for PS:N i've seen on here over the last month is that it seems people think adding more vehicles to the game or creating specific roles for x,y,z is gonna make the game more fun.

Well Wrath to be fair people have been asking for Naval Combat since the first day we heard of PlanetSide back 10 years ago. :lol:

Its an idea that isn't going anywhere and tons of people want to see it. Me personally? I don't think its that big of a deal, I really don't mind if they were to add something like this to the game but I don't think they "Need" to add it.
I would rather want to see Urban warfare in the game (or even Space/Orbit combat). Naval Combat? Not so much.
Agreed! I would much rather see Urban come into the game and I think that's probably more likely than Naval warfare. It's easier to implement and is not a whole separate system to balance.

[Wrath]

Well Wrath to be fair people have been asking for Naval Combat since the first day we heard of PlanetSide back 10 years ago. :lol:

Its an idea that isn't going anywhere and tons of people want to see it. Me personally? I don't think its that big of a deal, I really don't mind if they were to add something like this to the game but I don't think they "Need" to add it.

theres always people who want something adding to a game if its missing. issue is the idea floated here is almost to create a seperate game which in my opinion would never get played. I can see how adding a few more amphibious vechiles would be useful a small hovercraft realted to the atv cert might be nice.

[DviddLeff]

Oh I totally agree that urban combat would be better for the game and that adding any more maps would be detrimental to the current game.

But if the navy could be used to move from map to map and act as strong points from which to mount an invasion... that would work very well.

[Firefly]

You'd need water access all across the map for water vessels to have any use beyond 10minutes in which there is fighting going on around that river :p
Every continent is an island. Which means it's surrounded by water. A number of bases are on the coast. Add a few offshore bases - a stationary aircraft carrier or some offshore platforms. In keeping with base benefit themes, holding them could provide certain benefits. The carrier could spawn amphibious vehicles like the Deliverer and aquatic vessels Higgins boats or raiding craft, as well as combat aircraft like Liberators, Reavers, and Mosquitoes. Perhaps one type of platform spawns something which can serve as naval gunfire support, for reaching inland.