Outfit homes

[brinkdadrink]

As an outfit im sure we all thought about being able to hold our own base. What if this was true and if you are an outfit with a cetain number of active members you are able to control one base on the home island. This would be mostly for bragging purposes but it could be upgraded.

My thought would be the longer it is held the more points you get which you can spend on different special defenses for that base. This would make a little different than the usual battles and outfits get to show off their name even more.

thoughts??

[Bags]

You mean like Delta Triad could own Dagda, or some random base in the sanctuary? If you mean some random base in sac, then no. We don't need player housing.

[Furret]

I think he means a base on a continent, probably your empire's home continent.

[brinkdadrink]

Like you could own an actual base that could have your brand on it. This would also mean that if it was taken then you lose control until it is retaken and someone claims the base for their outfit.

This just to make it a little harder to get through the bases near your sanc (if there is one) and let you show off your outfit.

[Dorest0rm]

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/idea_outfitbarracks.shtml

Even tho i swear Planetside had this for a while, hence the "Claimed" status when you check out the base.

[Skraeling]

Not a bad idea.

This would be similar to what dark age of camelot did. In that game there were castles you could claim for your side. Claiming them was beneficial as you could upgrade them. this made it slightly harder for small groups to just come by and jack it. It added more guards and maybe higher hit point doors (you broke these down with rams). Basically it bought you more time to respond to an attack on it. It alerted you with messeges in clan chat that X guard has been killed by Y enemies.
This presented an interesting tactic in that you could basically ping someones guards with a number of indiviuals and draw there attention there while attacking a different area.

Now it cost bounty points every I think day. BP were earned from pvp combat. I think a similar system would work very well here. Total pvp player numbers would be quite similar to Planetside.


apoloigies if this makes even less sense than my normal posts... damn you bacardi.

[Grimster]

I kind of like the idea of being able to claim bases. Reminds me very much of DAoC. :)

As long as it doesn't involve any currency its fine by me. Would be cool if large outfits could claim bases and have their outfit logo shown on holoflags and similar in the base.

[DviddLeff]

I want both; outfits should be able to claim a base in the world and upgrade it as Hayoo suggests.

I would also like to allow outfits to set up a barracks in Sanctuary, which they can defend in the event of a Sanc strike.

[Hamma]

That would be interesting assuming we still see Sanctuaries which I doubt we will. Having outfits claim bases as their own would be interesting but it would need some solid systems around it. For example it needs to be accessible to all active outfits not just zerg outfits. And it should really have a limit on how long you can have a base claimed for.

[Grimster]

That would be interesting assuming we still see Sanctuaries which I doubt we will. Having outfits claim bases as their own would be interesting but it would need some solid systems around it. For example it needs to be accessible to all active outfits not just zerg outfits. And it should really have a limit on how long you can have a base claimed for.


Well I think its fair that if the base is conquered than after the base is recaptured to your own empire than its up to a outfit to claim it again.

I think this is how it works in DAoC if I recall correctly. Haven't played DAoC for several years now. :)

[Timantium]

I think this is a good idea that could lead to really really bad in game results. As outfits claim bases, how will that affect the defense of a home cont?

Will I necessarily leave my own outfits home base to protect the rest of the continent?

I think this will splinter the unity of an empire fighting for the empire.

[Firefly]

I think this is a good idea that could lead to really really bad in game results. As outfits claim bases, how will that affect the defense of a home cont?

Will I necessarily leave my own outfits home base to protect the rest of the continent?

I think this will splinter the unity of an empire fighting for the empire.
Ever play DAoC or Warhammer Online? Guilds could claim a keep/castle. This was not much of an issue.

[Raymac]

I like the idea. I think it might work best if there are a wider variety of structures in the game. I mean right now we have 2, a base and a tower. If there were a few more types of structures in between those 2, it would really open up the possibilities for Outfit Homes. I think it would be cool because I know I fight that much harder on a home continent, so a home base would be even more intense.

On the other hand, I could see this game quickly devolving into gang warfare where 1 outfit does a drive by on another outfit's house, so that outfit then needs to reciprocate. Next thing you know, it's South Central L.A.

[Grimster]

I like the idea. I think it might work best if there are a wider variety of structures in the game. I mean right now we have 2, a base and a tower. If there were a few more types of structures in between those 2, it would really open up the possibilities for Outfit Homes. I think it would be cool because I know I fight that much harder on a home continent, so a home base would be even more intense.

On the other hand, I could see this game quickly devolving into gang warfare where 1 outfit does a drive by on another outfit's house, so that outfit then needs to reciprocate. Next thing you know, it's South Central L.A.

So you are not overreacting just a little bit? :)


Besides assuming that the lattice system is still in place people will still fight over the bases that the empire is currently risking on losing.

On the contrary I think outfit homes can have a positive effect in the sense that tacticts like blowing up gens on tech plants the players are more keen on watching out for the base that their outfit has claimed.

[Traak]

Hey, well, while we're at the whole flying your flag thing, let's make AMS's so you can choose who spawns at them. It would help make your AMS less of a magnet for trouble if you and a few other cloakers, not AV morons, could spawn at it and continue to use it for something other than a great place to get spammed by Reaver rockets that were attracted by the moron AV's.

This would also prevent idiot AMS's deployed strategically to eliminate the ability to spawn at another one placed somewhere useful. It would also eliminate one idiot hogging an entire base CY with his AMS, when three or four could be deployed instead.

And, we can make it so a big flag goes up with the name of whoever hacked the base on it. Also, whoever made kills could have their names on stars on the sidewalks around the base. If you made three or more kills, you can have your name pasted on the walls.

Advanced Medics could get their names on the advertising screens, with a short video of their heroic reviving of the dead. And, we could have in-game announcers giving us news feeds of how great the outfit leader must be to lead such a glorious band of roughnecks. Pictures of the outfit officers clad in leather chaps could be projected on the overhanging cloud cover, too.

In fact, we could make it so no one who ISN'T in an outfit can even be allowed to fire a weapon, but instead has to only do support work, and all their kills get credited to the outfit leaders.

Also, the outfit leaders who have the outfits with the most kills could be paid a monthly salary by Sony, and that, too, could be emblazoned on the walls of the buildings, or better, made into huge Nazca-like pictures on the ground observable from orbit.

I mean, there is just no limit! Mandatory outfit tattoos, Outfit leaders being able to band together and kick anyone from the game and ban them if they pointed out how badly they were leading, and, in fact the outfits could control Planetside entirely. So few tails wagging such a gigantic dog!

Or we could just not bother with outfits being exalted any more than they already are, which is not at all.

[I SandRock]

Outfit members should be able to instantly recall to their base. This means that they are responsible for protecting their base :)

[Hamma]

Something gives me the feeling Traak doesn't like Outfits. :lol:

Seriously man - overreact much? :p

[TRex]

Never played DAoC , but from Warhammer online if I remember correctly a guild used guild points to claim a keep . Being attacked depleted the points, and obviously killing attackers added back to your guild points. The more points you had, the more options available to increase the defensiveness of said keep.

My only worry is whether the game would be, like hamma said , just a huge zerg-guild mentality to the game.

I do remember in 2004/5 mention of outfits being able to claim a base in planetside , but nothing came of it. But tbh, anything that gave outfit points some use would be a nice addition.

[brinkdadrink]

I have never played DAoC or Warhammer. I just thought it would be cool. I dont think outfit points should be used for this as it directly relates to how many people are in the outfit.

For simplicity i thought of time so the longer you keep the base the more points you get which you can spend so if you lose the base you lose all the points you built up. This would mean even if your outfit was small you could upgrade the same amount as the big outfits.

if you have less numbers it would be harder to defend solely as the outfit but more than likely you will have the empire back helping.

Also since you know the longer you wait to attack an empires home continent means the better the defenses will be on the bases.

The only other basis i can think of would be command rank. This way if you have a zerg outfit that doesn't work together they dont make as many points, while if you have an outfit that works well together they make more command points and thus can upgrade their base more.

[I SandRock]

Well, if an outfit can only hold one base then there should be plenty of bases for everyone, and then some.

[Firefly]

Something gives me the feeling Traak doesn't like Outfits.
Go back and read some of his posts from a few weeks ago. That guy got nerd-rage pissy about it, crying and QQ'ing about being kicked out of outfit after outfit. That's a serious case of Butthurt that not even Astroglide can fix.

Never played DAoC , but from Warhammer online if I remember correctly a guild used guild points to claim a keep . Being attacked depleted the points, and obviously killing attackers added back to your guild points. The more points you had, the more options available to increase the defensiveness of said keep.

My only worry is whether the game would be, like hamma said , just a huge zerg-guild mentality to the game.

I do remember in 2004/5 mention of outfits being able to claim a base in planetside , but nothing came of it. But tbh, anything that gave outfit points some use would be a nice addition.
The early PS concept was Outfit Base Ownership. At the time it was not well-thought-out or at least was not described beyond saying an outfit could claim a base. And people that never played DAoC were bitching about it because they didn't understand.

The thing with WAR keep-claims wasn't that you used points. Your guild had to acquire a certain guild level (which it got by having active members playing, inactive members hurt guild XP progress). Once it got to that level, a guild would simply go to the keep and place their banner at the top of the keep. You then paid keep maintenance, which was in the form of gold/silver. That came out of the guild treasury, so guild taxes came into play *OR* for the ultra-liberal you could just donate.

As long as you defended your keep from aggressors and you paid the rent, you kept the keep. In just about all cases, you couldn't actually lock a map without the keeps being claimed.

I'd actually *ALMOST* like to see a system like that implemented, especially if there were battlefield objectives - OUTDOOR objectives, mainly, which focus around a simple "obelisk of power" or some other mythical object outside (as opposed to some man-made shit like a tower or base). Outdoor objectives which require someone to capture them mean potential for an outdoor battle. That would solve the issue of the age-old PS gripe "the game centres around indoor base combat".

I say *ALMOST* because then you'd have a sort of economy implemented, which would lead to little shitheads named Fang Baolan and Hu Jianming spamming the fuck out of public channels offering gold selling services. However, now that I think about it, this can be circumvented by an outfit paying for their base by the slow decay of outfit points. That way, an outfit which likes to claim bases has to actually work to stay up at the top of the outfit-points roster.

[Manitou]

My question is how do you prevent an Outfit simply recruiting six gazillion lemmings and earning points out the wazoo just by existing?

Maybe figure out a point system that divides up the points percentage wise based on the outfit population?

You would have to limit the zerg-outfit mentality somehow or small skilled outfits would find it hard to compete simply because of the point generating population.

[Firefly]

My question is how do you prevent an Outfit simply recruiting six gazillion lemmings and earning points out the wazoo just by existing?
Technically, in the existing system, you don't. Ever see HMX-1 and Dark Skyes? Same concept - there's no percentage factor based on active members, so it's literally "invite all [No Outfit] tags and ninja-jack other outfits' members" and accrue XP. Then brag about how you're Number One In Outfit Points in public chat, reinforcing the notion that you are, in fact and not just theory, a fucking tool.

Maybe figure out a point system that divides up the points percentage wise based on the outfit population?
Now, in PS:N, since there's not yet a system, perhaps someone will read this and take a page from other systems. An outfit can gain outfit XP based on the incoming XP from each member - but that XP should be based on an algorithm that factors in something like the number of online players and the number of active players in the last two weeks. Case in point, Warhammer Online's guild system - guild XP was earned based on a percentage decided by the people online, and the people who were active in the last X-amount of days.

Can it be exploited? Sure - WAR guilds would kick people who weren't online, thereby maxing out the XP that could be earned. They'd just reinvite people afterwards. But you can't do that in Planetside if you care about your outfit points contributions - you get kicked, you start at zero (the outfit doesn't lose that XP, but still...).

You would have to limit the zerg-outfit mentality somehow or small skilled outfits would find it hard to compete simply because of the point generating population.
Small skilled outfits can compete with the above model, provided they are small skilled outfits not populated by 50% inactive members/alts. Even with the current system (versus the future version I outlined), a small skilled outfit can compete. Prior to pop declines that warranted server mergers, my small outfit stayed in the Top Ten. The only people who had more points than us were incredibly large outfits. Which is why I nanny-nanny-booboo at them. :D

Having a system like this for Outfit Base Ownership, based on using Outfit Points, not only prevents econo-whores and gold-sellers and thus the inevitable gold-spammers, but it also forces outfits to continually be active if they claim a base regularly, *IF* they want to stay in the Top Ten (of outfit points). But it will only truly work if outfit-experience is applied based on active people, instead of zergfitting the shit out of it.

[Manitou]

As usual, an excellent examination of the issue. You sir, are a gentleman, and true warrior.

(Note: you will notice I didn't use the word "true" in conjunction with the gentleman descriptor. That would be stretching my integrity just a bit.)

:p

[Firefly]

As usual, an excellent examination of the issue.
I worked on WAR and DAoC. :D Not really difficult to come up with something decent. To be frank, Planetside is *OLD* as active games go. Its systems haven't really been upgraded a lot - all I see are the same three "Events" over and over again. It's in maintenance-mode, as they say. Hopefully PS:N incorporates a lot of elements which have since been developed.

[Timantium]

Hey, well, while we're at the whole flying your flag thing, let's make AMS's so you can choose who spawns at them. It would help make your AMS less of a magnet for trouble if you and a few other cloakers, not AV morons, could spawn at it and continue to use it for something other than a great place to get spammed by Reaver rockets that were attracted by the moron AV's.


lol umadbro?
OR
you could not put your ams in a spot that "moron AV's" are fighting... You are the driver, it is your responsibility to watch your ams and move it if too many people are drawing attention to it.

It's the same as watching all the tards standing on the roof of an interlink waiting to get OSed. Don't stand in a big group with everyone if you don't want to get the OS.

EDIT*
Regarding the outfit points issue: I like the idea to add a modifier to help small, yet active, outfits. Let's say for the sake of my terrible math you have the standard BEP to outfit point ratio set at 1:1. If you have 100 percent membership logging in the last 48 hours you get triple the ratio BEP to OP (3:1). 75 percent logging in gets you 2:1. 50 percent keeps you even, 25 percent is 0.5:1 and 0 percent is (obviously) 0.

This means the large zerg outfits will get good OP because of their large membership, but not at the same rate as smaller, more active outfits. It effectively doubles or triples the "membership" of a smaller outfit by giving them bonus modifiers for being active and penalizes or maintains status for larger outfits whose members are more casual.

If this is too complicated to keep track of every day or two, they could make it calculate every week on server maintenance and the bonus/penalty could last for the ensuing week. The minimum log time to count for roll call could be set for 15 minutes or a significant action (assist/kill/cap).

Kicking people could have a penalty too, encouraging outfits to do a better job of screening candidates in the first place. Say any outfit that kicks a member has to refund half of that members total outfit points contributed as a penalty.

[I SandRock]

I worked on WAR and DAoC. :D Not really difficult to come up with something decent. To be frank, Planetside is *OLD* as active games go. Its systems haven't really been upgraded a lot - all I see are the same three "Events" over and over again. It's in maintenance-mode, as they say. Hopefully PS:N incorporates a lot of elements which have since been developed.

What did you work as and how did you allow WAR to pale in comparison to DAoC. I will hold you personally accountable.

[Firefly]

What did you work as and how did you allow WAR to pale in comparison to DAoC. I will hold you personally accountable.
There were a number of things that caused the game to do poorly - from EA to Mark Jacobs all the way down to department heads. It's neither here nor there, unfortunately. It would be incredibly poor form and in bad taste, to say nothing of any NDAs etc to even hint at why WAR failed, at least publicly. I wasn't a decision-maker, just a boot on the ground. I'm also not going to identify my job position because I don't want any fallout should someone happen to stumble upon a post of mine and then come a'hunting later.

[Grimster]

A bit OT which I apologize for.

WAR had several issues but in my opinion one of the bigger issues was EA pressuring Mythic into keeping the deadline which forced them to remove a large chunk of the content prior to the release.


On topic. I like Firefly's analysis of it and his suggestion would defiantly work in PS:N and I hope we get to see some kind of system where outfits are able to claim bases.

Most of Firefly's posts are very informative and structured and I rarely see him posting crap. Besides his nickname happens to be the name on one of the most awesome sci fi shows ever which only that brings me happy feelings every time I see a post of his. :)

[I SandRock]

Well, I know why WAR sucks compared to DAoC as I played both. And I can forgive those who worked on WAR and had not worked on DAoC. But I will never forgive those who worked on DAoC and allowed WAR to become WAR :( You shall all have to answer for your crimes when the time comes...

Also, I felt WAR, at first, was heading in a decent direction (I say decent because I hate the Warhammer universe) - but then switched goals from a DAoC-like game to a WoW-like game.


Firefly... firefly... you shouldn't worry about other people's lasers... imachargin mah laz0rz! :P


PS. This is not OT. The discussion is over. I am simply recycling :p

[Firefly]

Besides his nickname happens to be the name on one of the most awesome sci fi shows ever which only that brings me happy feelings every time I see a post of his. :)
I had my nickname well before that show ever came out. I took it from the GI Joe character, the COBRA saboteur & mercenary.

[Grimster]

Well doesn't matter where you got it, still reminds me of the show. :)

[DviddLeff]

I don't think anyone has posted a link to Hayoo's amazing flash concept of this:

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/obconcepts.htm

and for more details:

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/idea_outfitbarracks.shtml