Virtual Reality Training [Try before you buy]

[GoldDragon]

Okay, so I've actually given a lot of though as to what the VR does for us. Apart from letting us see what weapons and vehicles are available, not to much. Here is my proposal...

Virtual Reality

1. Shooting Range - Familiarize yourself with the available weaponry.
2. Vehicle Range - Familiarize yourself with available vehicles and their controls.
3. Training Scenarios - Face AI's of varied difficulties to learn combat basics. Training Scenarios can be entered as an individual or as a squad.

3.1 - Infantry - A series of conflicts in which the user faces AI's using various tactics and weapons depending on the difficulty chosen.
3.2 - Vehicles - Same as infantry, though the user can pick a vehicle and their position in the vehicle.
3.3 - Aircraft - Same as previous two only in regards to aircraft.

I feel having this third option in VR would be the most beneficial to older players and those wishing to refine their tactics before trying them in the field. It would also allow squads to develop team tactics as well. While I recognize this IS NOT necessary to the game's livelihood, I do think that it would make the VR more practical.

Feedback anyone? :D

[Canaris]

I'd love to see an expanded VR training center for use in testing weapons and vehicles.
Good post :)

Just have to make it so you can have plenty of people using it and not disturbing other players while they do.
Also how would multi player vehicles work while you're on your own in VR, a.i. gunners?

Maybe for the flight sim have a few of the standard rings to fly through while doing training. Put the aircraft thru their paces.

[GoldDragon]

Really there are hundred of potential ways for a "training room" to be used. I mean I remember back when I first got PlanetSide they had a short tutorial run but I didn't really take anything away from that apart from stuff I could have figured out on my own. I'd love to see more of the open doors VR presents used.

And yes, multi-vehicles would be AI gunners that might say things to help you learn "You're to far left of the target, swing around for another run and try using the bombing camera!"

Just thoughts though.

[Firefly]

It has its uses, they're just not official functions. You have to figure out how to use it. My outfit uses them on occasion for "weapons range training", where squads use the firing line to learn coordinated left-to-right fire. It used to be that you could get a whole squad into the same vehicle room but that became a sort of random instance, you'd see the numbers on the map but the people would be in different rooms. Prior to that, we used to use vehicle-testing rooms for squad-based infantry training for new players.

[GoldDragon]

It has its uses, they're just not official functions. You have to figure out how to use it. My outfit uses them on occasion for "weapons range training", where squads use the firing line to learn coordinated left-to-right fire. It used to be that you could get a whole squad into the same vehicle room but that became a sort of random instance, you'd see the numbers on the map but the people would be in different rooms. Prior to that, we used to use vehicle-testing rooms for squad-based infantry training for new players.

Aye, my crew does similar things. I still think that adding some sort of response from the environment would ultimately teach more. Like for infantry, how you act when shooting is different if you're actually being shot at in return. The current VR is good for initial tactics training but it doesn't allow people to develop response tactics. While you can fight your own outfit members it doesn't allow you to work as a whole unit, you're splitting people up. As a small-ops leader I know that splitting my team up for training doesn't really benefit them in the long run so we end up using target dummies (Motion Sensor / Spitfires), but those do not return fire...

My whole issue is having a game combat simulation to help players learn things that can be applied to real PlanetSide combat.

[Timantium]

What I would love to see is based to your AI training session is an option to train as a group in these scenarios or even to play wargames with your own empires.

My outfit ran training late at night on conts that we had locked. That way we could practice tower assaults, quick base secures, etc. If we could do this in VR with established scenarios or simply adjustable facility layouts (tower, bio lab, tech, interlink, bridge etc.) it would be a huge benefit to any outfit who was willing to train their members.

[Firefly]

As a small-ops leader I know that splitting my team up for training doesn't really benefit them in the long run so we end up using target dummies (Motion Sensor / Spitfires), but those do not return fire...

My whole issue is having a game combat simulation to help players learn things that can be applied to real PlanetSide combat.
Again, this is up to the players to figure out. There's a Public Test Server. My outfit has run internal competitions on the PTS, with one group as TR and the other as either VS or NC, depending on the scenario. Usually we would run two iterations, so each side could change teams and experience combat from the other side. That way, we had a better idea of what the opposition's capabilities were - in turn, providing a chance to develop a counter.

[Hamma]

Interesting thoughts! I think that expanding the VR area would be a good investment in the game for those outfits that want to spend more time refining their skills.

[Peacemaker]

I think this is a great idea. Either a customised mission maker (Select enemies, Select Enemy vehicle, Select AI difficulty, Select map (Bio lab, Tech Lab...) Select Tower Type, Select AI Behavior and you get an instanced fight in a moderate sized map. Or just preprogrammed missions by the Devs. Id love to see a way to put my self in a reaver and try to fight off 2 or 3 enemy reavers, or 5 tanks or something.

[GoldDragon]

I think this is a great idea. Either a customised mission maker (Select enemies, Select Enemy vehicle, Select AI difficulty, Select map (Bio lab, Tech Lab...) Select Tower Type, Select AI Behavior and you get an instanced fight in a moderate sized map. Or just preprogrammed missions by the Devs. Id love to see a way to put my self in a reaver and try to fight off 2 or 3 enemy reavers, or 5 tanks or something.

Like I've said, VR opens so many possibilities for usage but it's nothing other than a Weapons gallery really. I'm sure some would argue that this adds an RPG element to the game and how it goes against planetside... w/e.

Having an environment to train is important to developing strategy and combat tactics in my opinion. Training facilities exist in order to prepare for the greater fight. Militaries (usually...) don't train their men and women by throwing them on the front lines, that's not going to do anything but get people killed and in the case of gaming, annoy new players who are facing people with years of experience with the game mechanics (even if they are reworked slightly).

[The Desert Fox]

I agree, I feel that the VR training was really cool but very limited in PS, Something where entire outfits could customize training simulations and save them for future use would be extremely useful for Outfit "Basic Training" if you will.

[CutterJohn]

I'd like the experience from training to be account wide, and when you start a new character everything you already have examined does so again. This way you don't have to waste 45 minutes running around getting weapons and getting in and out of vehicles.

I'd like VR to have mobile enemies. In vehicle training, any vehicle you can gun on can be ridden on a track in the gunners position, and there are targets there.

Enemy vehicles and weapons should also be available in VR, on the off chance you happen to get one, you can have some experience.

This is all just for familiarization though, so a newb can get some rounds without dying every 2 seconds.

Sure, put a few proper bases in the VR for outfits to train with, but there needn't be a whole lot to that.. Ultimately training in a simulation of a simulation is pointless. There are few enough downsides to losing in game. Just go and do it.

[GoldDragon]

Sure, put a few proper bases in the VR for outfits to train with, but there needn't be a whole lot to that.. Ultimately training in a simulation of a simulation is pointless. There are few enough downsides to losing in game. Just go and do it.

I see your point here, and I do agree that a "simulation of a simulation" isn't necessarily ideal. Here's my counter though, the current player base is very familiar with the controls and game play of PlanetSide so these training scenarios aren't necessarily appealing. However assuming SOE plans on expanding the player base (marketing ftw maybe?...) these new recruits might appreciate a facility that they-and their friends-can practice working together against AI. While that is far from the true feel of PlanetSide it will allow them to have a more realistic expectation of what they'll find in the battlefield.

Yes, an outfit can adopt players and teach them but from my experiences not every new player (or current player) knows or wants that. Some find satisfaction in learning on their own. This is more about offering options to players and giving outfits (my personal reason for wanting this) a training ground to develop and refine tactics.

My final thing is that I don't see everyone wanting to just jump in and die. I believe I've said this before but the opening player base is not going to be a bunch of newbies but a large percentage of highly experienced players, this can make learning and starting a game disheartening, even with PlanetSide keeping the playing field relatively even.

[CutterJohn]

I'd rather see some newb incentives introduced after a few weeks of the game running. Shortened vehicle timers, respawn timers, relaxed binding/spawning rules. Maybe 50% extra health or something. Things to take the sting out of constantly dying and running back to combat.

I'd also like to see them institute something from SWG.. The helper system. Players could set a helper tag, new players could search for these easily to ask questions or get advice. A good guy got me started right, and I helped several others in the same way.

[GoldDragon]

I'd rather see some newb incentives introduced after a few weeks of the game running. Shortened vehicle timers, respawn timers, relaxed binding/spawning rules. Maybe 50% extra health or something. Things to take the sting out of constantly dying and running back to combat.

I'd also like to see them institute something from SWG.. The helper system. Players could set a helper tag, new players could search for these easily to ask questions or get advice. A good guy got me started right, and I helped several others in the same way.

Cool thoughts, I don't disagree. Personally I think the best solution would be a combination of ideas. Most propositions have something worth taking away and the best result might be a VR Stew if you will, lol.

I of course like my initial suggestion, however I can see how it might not be necessary. I also like your suggestion here John, and several of the others I have heard and come across. So maybe if we can devise a method that combines the best from everything we get a system that works?

[Firefly]

Yes, an outfit can adopt players and teach them but from my experiences not every new player (or current player) knows or wants that. Some find satisfaction in learning on their own. This is more about offering options to players and giving outfits (my personal reason for wanting this) a training ground to develop and refine tactics.
My outfit runs a three-tiered set of training - Basic, Advanced, and Leadership. Each is geared towards a specific aspect of the game. Basic is for 1) new players and 2) new players to BWC. It teaches them fundamentals of the game if they don't know it, and how to operate with the outfit - from using Teamspeak/Vent to basic squad formations. It's designed to take a brand new player and give them at least a month of experience in the span of about a half-hour. That way we can take a n00b and run them with the squad without fearing that we'll decrease effectiveness. Advanced is basically small-unit infantry tactics (US Army FM 7-8 and a few others), how squads work and how squads work together as a platoon, conducting ambushes and flanks, etc. And Leadership training is how to run a squad and platoon. These are run in VR Training, in Sanctuary, or on live-fire continents. This is our training ground. And it's not mandatory to take any of them, it's offered but not expected.

It falls to the individual player to find out how to play the game. My biggest tip to brand new players is, find a good outfit. Not every outfit cares about new people, and not every outfit even cares enough to be serious. Which is fine - for every outfit that doesn't, there's an outfit that does. Some go the whole mile, like Warrior Nation, Dragonwolves, BWC, etc. Others just have a bunch of pro-tips. Diff'rent strokes, etc.

[Bags]

Most of the above "advanced" training sounds moot; good luck ambushing or flanking someone in a game with radar and third person.

[Firefly]

Most of the above "advanced" training sounds moot; good luck ambushing or flanking someone in a game with radar and third person.
:rofl: Not even gonna address your comment. Have a nice day.

[GoldDragon]

It falls to the individual player to find out how to play the game. My biggest tip to brand new players is, find a good outfit. Not every outfit cares about new people, and not every outfit even cares enough to be serious. Which is fine - for every outfit that doesn't, there's an outfit that does. Some go the whole mile, like Warrior Nation, Dragonwolves, BWC, etc. Others just have a bunch of pro-tips. Diff'rent strokes, etc.

I understand that and appreciate it, but does that really merit not including the tool should people want to take advantage of it? I'm just wondering if the idea doesn't appeal to you specifically because you don't see your unit using it. I don't mean this negatively but do you have a reason outside of that for disagreeing with the implementation of a more advanced VR? I would love having something like this to help train my outfit, but if no one else has a use or can see a use for it than I suppose it really loses it's merit to anyone else.

(Just looking to understand your perspective on this atm)

[Firefly]

I understand that and appreciate it, but does that really merit not including the tool should people want to take advantage of it? I'm just wondering if the idea doesn't appeal to you specifically because you don't see your unit using it. I don't mean this negatively but do you have a reason outside of that for disagreeing with the implementation of a more advanced VR? I would love having something like this to help train my outfit, but if no one else has a use or can see a use for it than I suppose it really loses it's merit to anyone else.

(Just looking to understand your perspective on this atm)
See my first and second post (I think) in this thread. I'm specifically FOR the idea, very much in favour of it. Matter of fact, a few years back there was a video competition and my outfit entered it. The first thing in it was a training segment taking place in the VR room.

In its current capacity, it's limited. I mentioned the instanced vehicle VR room - in the past I could get a ten-person squad, all ten people, in the same VR room. We'd use it for various functions because 1) Murphy's Law on live-fire continents means some a-hole will always disrupt training and 2) weapons-lock in Sanctuary. VR was perfect because it was a controlled environment where you could use weapons.

[GoldDragon]

See my first and second post (I think) in this thread. I'm specifically FOR the idea, very much in favour of it.

Alright, I suppose I can see that in your posts. I was reading them wrong, my apologies there.

On that note, is there something that you'd like to see added into VR that I may have missed in your previous posts? Or at least do you have a more refined application in mind for VR? One of the things that confused me (and I'm still a bit foggy on) in your earlier posts was mention the Test Server, are you saying that you see the "Advanced" VR as something like that on a smaller scale?

[Bags]

.

[Firefly]

On that note, is there something that you'd like to see added into VR that I may have missed in your previous posts? Or at least do you have a more refined application in mind for VR? One of the things that confused me (and I'm still a bit foggy on) in your earlier posts was mention the Test Server, are you saying that you see the "Advanced" VR as something like that on a smaller scale?
If I had my druthers, and I don't, I'd prefer to see it done this way:

1) As-is, don't nerf anything and don't remove anything except that stupid grief-lock warning when you hit someone. All you gotta do is make it zero damage against anything that isn't on the firing range.

2) Stop with the instanced shit. If I want to put all ten of my squad members in a VR room, let me do it. Having them in separate instances pisses me off. Put it back the way it was.

3) In keeping with the vehicle room and damage warnings, I'd like to be able to fire (but not damage) things. This way I don't get a warning when running infantry drills or vehicle drills.

4) I suppose a base or two might be fine, but only for the sake of being able to run battle drills. Sure I can do it on a locked continent or an active live-fire zone, but Murphy's Law and players interfering will inevitably ruin that.

I can't really think of anything else. As it stands, player innovation takes care of most of it for those that think it through. There's really not much else that can be done, in my opinion. Of course, someone else may have better ideas.

.

Last edited by Bags; Today at 06:29 PM.
Good idea.

[GoldDragon]

I can agree with most of that, really I think the biggest thing for me was adding a responsive AI to train on. That is to say something that will shoot back without killing you (brings you to 5 health and you get a "death" for training). Yes, I can train with my outfit mates and shoot at them but I'd personally rather shoot at an AI while trying to teach my guys how to pull something off THEN try shooting at each other later.

Also it was mentioned earlier you should have access to enemy weapons in VR, I would agree as it allows you to learn how to react to such weapons and know their strengths and weaknesses if you invest time into learning them.

[Firefly]

I can agree with most of that, really I think the biggest thing for me was adding a responsive AI to train on. That is to say something that will shoot back without killing you (brings you to 5 health and you get a "death" for training). Yes, I can train with my outfit mates and shoot at them but I'd personally rather shoot at an AI while trying to teach my guys how to pull something off THEN try shooting at each other later.
See this is where I have to disagree, respectfully of course. I don't want AI in the VR, except what currently exists as standing targets. AI can never, EVER compete with a flesh and blood variable. Which is why I took my outfit to the Public Test server and ran in-house scrimmage trainings. Frequently.

Also it was mentioned earlier you should have access to enemy weapons in VR, I would agree as it allows you to learn how to react to such weapons and know their strengths and weaknesses if you invest time into learning them.
Gonna have to disagree here, too. There's something to be said for learning things on the battlefield and figuring it out there. I kinda feel like doing this would basically reduce the game to run-and-gun status.

[GoldDragon]

See this is where I have to disagree, respectfully of course. I don't want AI in the VR, except what currently exists as standing targets. AI can never, EVER compete with a flesh and blood variable. Which is why I took my outfit to the Public Test server and ran in-house scrimmage trainings. Frequently.


Gonna have to disagree here, too. There's something to be said for learning things on the battlefield and figuring it out there. I kinda feel like doing this would basically reduce the game to run-and-gun status.

Fair points both, I'm more inclined to agree with the latter though. My entire reason for wanting AI in VR (noting of course that there is no comparison to a truly intelligent and human foe) is that my group is to small to effectively scrimmage ourselves and while we will willing cooperate with other outfits we are very proud of the tactics we develop and I prefer training internally without enlisting other units to scrimmage us. I do appreciate training against each other as it can not only improve your skills but help you learn your teammate strategies and how they play.

Even if AI was left the way it is in VR, I at least think they should duck for cover more and not just stand there.

[Bags]

I was going to type a rebuttal but I decided you'd just ignore it as you don't have an actual response. Good say sir.

[Firefly]

I was going to type a rebuttal but I decided you'd just ignore it as you don't have an actual response. Good say sir.
Oh I have a response and it might even be constructive, but it's just not going to be delivered because most of the time I see you shitting on everyone else for presuming to crap on your playstyle, when you're not making antagonistic replies. I can't even count the number of times Hamma's had to come in and warn you to cut your bullshit. Ergo, because you do happen to contribute constructively from time to time, I forewent the heat out of respect for those contributions.

[GoldDragon]

So... Other thoughts on expanding the VR and/or implementing what's available more effectively? I would love to see a cookies and cake room added. :D

But in all seriousness, VR feels like a wasted tool. This has been said before. It's just there to be there and serves a very small, essentially insignificant practical purpose.

[Firefly]

But in all seriousness, VR feels like a wasted tool. This has been said before. It's just there to be there and serves a very small, essentially insignificant practical purpose.
Aside from quickly going from BR1 to BR4, the only other function it can be used for is teaching fire teams and squads how to combine fires, sweeping from left to right, and prioritizing targets.

[GoldDragon]

The fun part to that is making sure they remember it in the fight XD

[goneglockin]

I always felt that outfits of a certain size should get their own persistent, instanced VR room that they could customize to some extent. And I'm talking about the environment, but I'm also talking about game mechanics. You could let them load different maps, give them death match type games and capture points, something that keeps score and has a demo/record option similar to what we see in other shooters. Play against your outfit or other outfits that accept an invite from you.

Would it take people out of the main fights? Sure. But not everyone cared for that all the time anyway. Besides, if you have a healthy game it won't matter as there will be no shortage of bodies.

[GoldDragon]

I always felt that outfits of a certain size should get their own persistent, instanced VR room that they could customize to some extent. And I'm talking about the environment, but I'm also talking about game mechanics. You could let them load different maps, give them death match type games and capture points, something that keeps score and has a demo/record option similar to what we see in other shooters. Play against your outfit or other outfits that accept an invite from you.

Would it take people out of the main fights? Sure. But not everyone cared for that all the time anyway. Besides, if you have a healthy game it won't matter as there will be no shortage of bodies.

While I can appreciate this view you pointed out the poison to this idea. Some players will get more engrossed in these instanced scenarios than in playing the main point of the game. As it is with PlanetSide's current set up, if someone wants to get out of the "main fight," as I often do with my outfit, there are inactive continents and bases (or at least less active) that they can strike at.

That said, I can see how my idea of making VR more interactive can potentially have the same problem. Limiting changes to maintain the purpose of PlanetSide is important to remember even with all of these cool ideas people throw around.

[SKYeXile]

Lets see them argue against this.

[Zulthus]

I support a VR room for vehs/weapons, but many people seem to be against it for whatever reason.

[Death2All]

Lets see them argue against this.

Battlefield doesn't have a VR and it is the greatest game ever made.


But seriously, I would like to see the VR back into the game. It was a great place to test out weapons and vehicles to get familiarized with them before you went out to a real battle and fucked all your friendlies over.

With the inclusion of a huge number of certifications this time around, it would nice to be able to try out certs in the VR range, like more range, less recoil etc. and see how they work before you spend a cert point on them, even if they are easily obtained.

[Malorn]

I think you'll have a hard time convincing them to add in VR.

PS1 had limited certs. PS2 has unlimited certs, so even if you spend a cert on something you don't want/will never use, all you have to do is play another ten minutes and you'll get another cert. From what we saw the most you'll "lose" by making a choice you don't like is an hour or so. And even then it isn't really a loss since every cert gained is a character improvement so the only thing you lost is the opportunity to have something else a little bit sooner.

Not that I disagree with the idea, but I don't think VR is worth the dev time. Would rather they spent that on something more critical to the game than something that helps me avoid cert buyer's remorse.

[SKYeXile]

We only saw the cert system for enhancing guns, remember the guns themselves are brought with SC or resources.

[JHendy]

Lets see them argue against this.

"I won't be making this mistake therefore the problem doesn't exist"

[Rbstr]

VR was so synthetic, I never thought it gave a good approximation of how things worked in a real situation.

I'd prefer some kind of refund period: Buy the thing, you get an hour to use it. In order to keep people from being serial returners if you return something there's a timer the prevents you from buying anything for a day.

If you think about EVE with its skill system, you don't get to "test" a skill or ship. You've got to make that calculated risk.

[Malorn]

Also prioritization is an easy argument to make. Software development comes down to scoping and prioritization. There's a lot of neat stuff that simply doesn't make the bar, and wasting time on it is squandering opportunity to do stuff that can make a huge difference in the product.

[Immigrant]

I support VR room but only for purposes of flight and maybe driving simulation (simply to avoid pilots learning to fly ingame, this is especially important for transport vehicles like galaxies). We don't really need a virtual range however, new weapons will be unlocked only by cert points (not cash) if I understood right and since we've heard you'll get 1 cert point for just 10 mins of gameplay on average wasting a few dozen or more until finding a perfect weapon won't really be a problem at all.

[SKYeXile]

That's why I brought it up. I thought they were going with a purely cosmetic F2P model until I listened to that latest TB session. I may not remember correctly because I was tripping on some pretty strong LSD at the time, but I think Higby mentioned paid for weapons as well.

Planetside 2 - GDC First Gameplay Part 4 - YouTube

skip to 3:48

[Athanasios]

Battlefield doesn't have a VR and it is the greatest game ever made.
True, but BF is not designed as MMOFPS which means that you should unlock everything pretty easily. Also, BF xp points are not translated into real money in any case.

if you spend a cert on something you don't want/will never use, all you have to do is play another ten minutes and you'll get another cert. From what we saw the most you'll "lose" by making a choice you don't like is an hour or so.
Well, the case is that some (most?) of us don't have that luxury of +1 extra hour for a mistake that could have been avoided with few clicks. Work, studies, family, for some people this 1 hour might be their PS playtime of a day.

-----------

If they don't include this VR (haven't played PS1, but assume it's similar to Tribes Ascend training servers where you can try everything), then the best 2nd solution would be to include something like mini-videos showing off the weapon/item; either in-game or in a wiki page. Like StarCraft units' abilities in SP campaign.

[Bags]

Rbstr's refund idea could work, probably a helluva lot easier to implement than VR.

[Xyntech]

I'm all for this. It doesn't even need to be a physical VR room like in the sanctuaries (no need to debate sanctuaries in this thread).

You could just have a button on the main menu marked "training" or whatever, which let you play around in some test areas to practice flying, driving, shooting, etc. It could allow you to play with all of the different certs, or at the very least try out some of the broader stuff like unlockable weapons.

I'd like to see it be more in depth than the PS1 VR room though. Not just driving vehicles around in a barren environment or shooting targets in a confined little space.

[QuantumMechanic]

The other nice thing about VR training in PS1 is you could create a new character, take him in there and within 10 or so minutes you'd be BR4 after trying out all the weapons and vehicles. Which was enough to put you on the battlefield with more than your PJs and your suppressor.

Although since everybody has access to all classes from the start (as I recall hearing?) this won't be an issue.

I don't think anybody is really anti-VR training, the going argument is that the devs just have higher priority things to work on. Which is true still.

It would be nice to have some sort of shooting range so you can test the effects of your weapon customizations and various combinations thereof. Same goes for vehicles too. I'd rather have exit/entry animations though.

[Top Sgt]

do like ghost recon future soldier has.. have a firing range you can take any gun right to and test it while in the menu section. that's one area that game got correct.

[bullet]

Not that I disagree with the idea, but I don't think VR is worth the dev time. Would rather they spent that on something more critical to the game than something that helps me avoid cert buyer's remorse.

I don't see how a tiny area with equip terminals and targets would drain a huge amount of time from the devs. The old shooting range was about the size of a courtyard? with some walls and equip terms. I think it can be done pretty quickly.

I agree they should focus on getting major things done first for upcoming events, but just saying no to the idea of VR is silly.

[KnightHawk ECID]

Not against it i'd just put it down the road more towards launch or within the first month after launch.

[KiddParK]

do like ghost recon future soldier has.. have a firing range you can take any gun right to and test it while in the menu section. that's one area that game got correct.

waiting on the PC version to finally arrive... grumble

oh yeah, and VR room, sure why not, what harm does it do. OR, no way, hate the idea, do your own research before you buy.

really not a make or break issue to me either way...

[kertvon]

I think the VR is a good idea, but as many others have said, it doesn't fit as a priority in the scope of the game as is.

What would be really sweet however is to make the VR worth while by developing a full feature rich simulation environment. Nothing too complex, but a place for outfits to practice in and get new recruits etc running practice scenarios without enemy interference. This would be excellent, especially for pilots to get their wings as TB already gave us some solid examples of how much resources will be wasted by aircraft being smashed into rocks/buildings/thin air. :P

This would obviously be something to focus on implementing after beta/release as there are much more important things to worry about.

[Virulence]

Could be nice, but definitely not a must-have. I'd be fine without it.

[Hatchak]

My VR will be beta :P

[Zekeen]

I'm betting that we'll get an offline training mode or something

[CutterJohn]

There definitely needs to be a method of testing the weapons out. Not VR, in battle. VR gives you only a very rough feel on whether you'll like it or not.

I played tribes ascend, and made several purchases that I was soon disappointed with after playing a few matches with them. No option to test it out except against motionless bots, no option to sell it back. Weeks worth of XP, gone. Buh bye.

The game needs some method of granting temporary unlocks for the purposes of testing equipment before you buy.

[Sledgecrushr]

The devs, being this is a free to play game and they need to make money, would probably want you to just buy the sidegrade and then figure out if you like it or not. Now a vr room to hone all the weapons and optional goodness you have worked/paid for would be pure awesomeness.

[CutterJohn]

The devs, being this is a free to play game and they need to make money, would probably want you to just buy the sidegrade and then figure out if you like it or not. Now a vr room to hone all the weapons and optional goodness you have worked/paid for would be pure awesomeness.

Yes, and wal mart would prefer you do that as well, yet they still accept returns.

I'm curious why games get a pass on this.

[Gonefshn]

Definitely would love a way to test the weapons. Would be fun. And a VR for Aircraft and vehicles as was mentioned earlier is a great idea especially with the apparent difficulty to drive an aircraft increased so much. Or at least the nuance involved.

[LtCarman]

YES, this is a must. Way too many games decide to leave this out. A trial period would be great. If not, an offline practice mode will suffice. Either way, we need something to test out potential unlocks with.

And lets not just end with weapons either...an offline practice mode with vehicles is a must as well. Hell, if it were up to me, you'd have to go through an aircraft training session before you can fly in-game.

[Aractain]

This is an important point. I would hate to 'waste points' on stuff I didn't like.

[Smokingrabbit]

VR would be ok. I enjoyed it in PS. Id rather just be allowed to re-cert every now and then.

[PoisonTaco]

I want it for the sidegrade weapons that can be bought. If additional weapons are going to give me more playstyle options, I want to see what they feel like before I put my money on them.

I don't want to spend all this money on different variations of an assault rifle before I find the one that feels just right.

[Captain1nsaneo]

The ability to recert also ties into having multipule characters. I'm in a position where I like to play multiple roles with no overlap, I'm also going to have to wear several different hats depending on if I'm running a tank event or an air event. The ability to repurpose my certs even if it takes a long time is critical to me for planning outfit activities ingame. If I've got flyboys who want to join in an armor raid on Friday and its Monday then I don't want them to have to depend on all the armor guys buying good tanks for them and I'm pretty sure the tankers won't like using up the extra resources.

Oh right, VR. Yeah, VR is good I like VR. Good for weapon damage testing or for practicing with arc fire weapons.

[CuddlyChud]

I think a refund policy would be better than VR. VR doesn't really reflect an item/certs actual usefullness.

[SixShooter]

I thought that the VR room was pretty useful and I think that bringing it back would be a great idea. They could even have it separate from the game, like an option at the loading menu. It could have access to all 3 factions and newbies could try them out before creating a character. Would be great for practicing flying without worrying about all the flak and such. I also like the idea of being able to try out side grades too.

[SixShooter]

Thinking more about it, it would have to be outside of the actual game so you don't have people taking up slots on a cont just doing VR stuff.

[ZeroOneZero]

VR would be a great idea. Not only to test different weapons, but to retest them as some patches may change the stats of some of the weapons.

[Timealude]

I don't see how a tiny area with equip terminals and targets would drain a huge amount of time from the devs. The old shooting range was about the size of a courtyard? with some walls and equip terms. I think it can be done pretty quickly.

I agree they should focus on getting major things done first for upcoming events, but just saying no to the idea of VR is silly.

well we dont know how tight of a development they are under, even though i would like it see it...maybe most post launch.

[Higby]

Certs enhance existing weapons, so you'll already "own" the weapon and be able to test it out before you spend any cert points on it. If we added something like this is would be before you bought it (using Auraxium / StationCash), and currently we don't have plans for try before you buy. If this is something a lot of people want we could potentially add it post-launch.

[Nabeshin]

Certs enhance existing weapons, so you'll already "own" the weapon and be able to test it out before you spend any cert points on it. If we added something like this is would be before you bought it (using Auraxium / StationCash), and currently we don't have plans for try before you buy. If this is something a lot of people want we could potentially add it post-launch.

Instead of actually buying it outright you could place a "rental" cost on it and have it only be useable for 20 minutes or some amount of time so people could test the weapon.

[Snipefrag]

I think the ability to buy a refund up to a couple of hours after buying might be a nice touch, means you dont need a VR room which would take a lot of development and still be able to check things out you potentially might want.

[Roy Awesome]

Certs enhance existing weapons, so you'll already "own" the weapon and be able to test it out before you spend any cert points on it. If we added something like this is would be before you bought it (using Auraxium / StationCash), and currently we don't have plans for try before you buy. If this is something a lot of people want we could potentially add it post-launch.

Well, seeing as vehicles are totally different to fly/drive, some kind of free testing ground for those would be hella useful. I really want to get my flying down early so I can knock the noobs out of the sky :)

[SKYeXile]

Well, seeing as vehicles are totally different to fly/drive, some kind of free testing ground for those would be hella useful. I really want to get my flying down early so I can knock the noobs out of the sky :)

you always have access to vehicles you dont need to buy them, just the weapon attachments for them.

[Tssha]

you always have access to vehicles you dont need to buy them, just the weapon attachments for them.
Sorry, that's incorrect, vehicles cost a set amount of resources to purchase, regardless of equipment (for now).

Check out the Higby and Total Biscuit stream, they talk about it at one point.

[Bags]

Sorry, that's incorrect, vehicles cost a set amount of resources to purchase, regardless of equipment (for now).

Check out the Higby and Total Biscuit stream, they talk about it at one point.

No, what he means is like with guns, you don't have to buy the right to pull them.

Like, you buy a gun once, you can always use that gun even if you don't have the resources for the attachment.

They said the default vehicles costing resources was up in the air at the moment.

[SKYeXile]

No, what he means is like with guns, you don't have to buy the right to pull them.

Like, you buy a gun once, you can always use that gun even if you don't have the resources for the attachment.

They said the default vehicles costing resources was up in the air at the moment.

What bags said.

[Redshift]

Certs enhance existing weapons, so you'll already "own" the weapon and be able to test it out before you spend any cert points on it. If we added something like this is would be before you bought it (using Auraxium / StationCash), and currently we don't have plans for try before you buy. If this is something a lot of people want we could potentially add it post-launch.

Surely it would be pretty simple to make a button on the menu screen that dumps you in a room with a term with all options unlocked on it?

Personally it would encourage me to buy a load of stuff, on the first day i'd try out a bunch of stuff i wanted for my main weapons and buy them. If i couldn't try them i'd prob stick to earning the stuff in game until someone had posted a youtube vid of it.

[Shogun]

being able to load part of a continent in offline mode directly from the loader with all options unlocked and all 3 factions stuff available would be nice.

you could test out your favorite loadout and check what you need to buy for it, you could check which faction you would like the best before you have to choose one and are locked to this decision (newcomers would love that), and you could learn to fly without losing ressources with every crash and ruining your k/d ratio, if you are a leaderbordwhore.

offline mode would put no stress on servers while you do this.
enemys are not needed, but since there already is some ai done, they could even give you an enemy spawn menu to choose something specific to shoot at. with a passive/unarmed active/armed active option.

just don´t connect this to the live servers in any way. don´t even use the char or account. you start the game, and even before you log into your account you can click on offline training and end up on indar with something resembling the actual admin menu, being able to change factions, classes,vehicles and spawning enemys at will.

oh and this would be the place for stupid "congratulations, you just learned how to walk around! now try to aim at something and press a button on your mouse to shoot" popups most modern games smash in the faces of their retarded players. (with an option to turn it all off, of course)

[Toppopia]

being able to load part of a continent in offline mode directly from the loader with all options unlocked and all 3 factions stuff available would be nice.

you could test out your favorite loadout and check what you need to buy for it, you could check which faction you would like the best before you have to choose one and are locked to this decision (newcomers would love that), and you could learn to fly without losing ressources with every crash and ruining your k/d ratio, if you are a leaderbordwhore.

offline mode would put no stress on servers while you do this.
enemys are not needed, but since there already is some ai done, they could even give you an enemy spawn menu to choose something specific to shoot at. with a passive/unarmed active/armed active option.

just don´t connect this to the live servers in any way. don´t even use the char or account. you start the game, and even before you log into your account you can click on offline training and end up on indar with something resembling the actual admin menu, being able to change factions, classes,vehicles and spawning enemys at will.

That does sound cool. And doesn't sound too hard to implement. Basically lets you be like a developer in Alpha.

[Shogun]

that´s what i was aiming for ;)

maximum effect with minimum developement time. most of the tools are already there, so why not use them for such a thing?

[ringring]

I don't know what the solution is but there should be some way of reversing a wrong spending decision, if you do it within a defined and short timescale.

I mean if the decision is one that meant spending (real) cash especially.

There is also the scenario that you have spent time earning XP and you have put it all into, I don't know, say Galaxy enhancements but now you wish you had put it into main battle tank enhancements. This type of reversal could easily be a paid service.

[Myomoto]

Please add something like the firing range from PS1, getting play with weapons and their effectiveness at different ranges was why I originally came to fall in love with the Thumper grenade thrower.

PS: Please bring back the Thumper while you're at it. Have it be an engineer only weapon that replaces his carbine rifle, and let him load it with different grenade types, like jammers for clearing out enemy deployables/mine fields/revealing cloakers, and some kind of lasting AoE grenade that he can use to temporarily deny areas to infantry (although that might get problematic balance-wise when fighting indoors).

[NewSith]

Good point, because testing the attachments is something a little bit different from testing unmodifiable guns.


+1 for VRSR

[Fanglord]

As long as the weapons are reasonably priced I plan on buying most of them anyways; I can't stand not having variety.

[IMMentat]

Try before you buy is a concept real money transaction games don't use enough of.
A firing range in the empire foothold would be enough for testing purposes.
I would prefer a 30 minute trial available 2-3 times a week, plus 4-5 5 minute trials (counter resets midnight sunday) to test out gear in-combat before laying down a cert that may be better spent elsewhere.

I agree with many other people here.
Reasonable pricing is essential.

[Mechzz]

PS1 had a VR test room where you could try out the weapons before spending cert points on them. The penalty wasn't very severe, because you could revert the change 6 hours later if you still made a mistake.

In PS2 you won't be able to roll everything back, and a lot of the stuff you'll be using will cost money as well as time, so I think it's all the more necessary to have something similar to that VR test in the new game to see if it's worth the spending.

End statement.

Agreed.

And easy enough to do. Just allow weapon firing in the foothold with no friendly fire. Then allow enemy bots to spawn in cerain areas so we can shoot them. Provide a few cabinets/pads for sample weapons and vehicles that can't be taken out of the foothold and Bob's your uncle!

[Redshift]

As long as the weapons are reasonably priced I plan on buying most of them anyways; I can't stand not having variety.

I doubt you'll want to buy all the weps/attachments for real cash, looks like there's a fuck load.

Plus if you do that all the currency you earn ingame will be wasted, surely it's better to buy you priority weps/atts for cash and earn the ingame cash to fill up the collections?

[Kurtz]

Also prioritization is an easy argument to make. Software development comes down to scoping and prioritization. There's a lot of neat stuff that simply doesn't make the bar, and wasting time on it is squandering opportunity to do stuff that can make a huge difference in the product.

lots of scope creep on these boards, lol.

[DarkTower]

Think I've seen a thread or two on this topic, but couldn't find it through search, so please post a link to the right thread if I've got it wrong.

Anyway, simple question: will there be a return of the Virtual Reality system, or some other system where we can try weapons before we buy them? I'm not great at FPSs, so finding a weapon that 'feels' right is very important to me, so that I don't waste my time collecting resources for a gun that I won't use again. Or, will there be a reset at the end of beta / launch, so that I can play around with as many guns as I want, and then only spend resources on the ones I'll actually use once the game is released?

[Knightwyvern]

Well I'd imagine there will be some kind of VR training area as in PS1, though whether there will be a try before buy option remains to be seen, along with most other marketplace info.

[Xyntech]

We haven't heard word about it either way yet.

Since we have footholds on each continent now, and no sanctuary, I'd like to see something like the VR room just be a training mode that you access from the main menu. they could make it like an instance if possible, where you could invite friends and outfit mates into the same training area.

I definitely would like to be able to try all of the unlockables in the VR room. They may not want to allow you to access them all to try right away. I'm not sure. I would at least like to be able to test anything that is at a tier that you can unlock next. Like if you have to unlock A before you can unlock B, then you can test out A in the VR room, but if you've already unlocked A, then you can test B in the VR room, but not C.

[Mackenz]

The VR room would be great.

Also, given the way item purchase could work, rather than the straight buy-out, I would like a 1/3/7-day tryout scheme (maybe with it contributing the cost to the full buy) of items.

I like Blacklight: Retribution in this manner - you can try a different gun/scope/etc without committing full price.

I think this is really important in F2P.

[NEWSKIS]

I loved the VR Training room in PS1 for fiddling with setups and just shooting bots when I was bored. It would be great if they could add something similar in PS2.

[Hmr85]

I loved the VR Training room in PS1 for fiddling with setups and just shooting bots when I was bored. It would be great if they could add something similar in PS2.

I agree, I would love to see it make a return in some fashion. It was definitely a great way to play around with all the toys you didn't have.

[Electrofreak]

The VR was the first place I brought a new recruit to explain all of the weapons and vehicles. Trying something out in combat works after a fashion, but in the excitement of combat sometimes you don't grasp certain mechanics like you do when you have time to try them out in a virtual environment.

It really sucked when you got in a Gal loading up at the Sanc and piled in with a bunch of other people, and then it took off like a wounded turkey and you suddenly realized it was probably the pilot's first time flying one. :doh:

That generally meant a short trip to the respawn tube!

[Xyntech]

I just hope if they do add a VR training area, that it isn't shitty like in the first game, and that we can drive, fly, and shoot guns all in the same area.

[QuantumMechanic]

As I recall they've nixed the VR training room.

[Virulence]

I'd very much rather see comprehensive weapon information like http://symthic.com/charts.php than vague stat bars on stuff in the store.

[captainkapautz]

I'd very much rather see comprehensive weapon information like http://symthic.com/charts.php than vague stat bars on stuff in the store.

I'd much rather try the weapon out myself on some kind of range, I really don't care for an excel spreadsheet that tells me that this gun has a 2.7% higher PEWPEW-coefficient than the other.
I wanna know if I like the feel, the sound, that kinda thing.

[The Kush]

As far as I have heard..

No.

[Pella]

They should perhaps mimic League of legends style. With a weekly free rotation of selected weapons/skins.

This gives players a chance to try a new weapon/skin, And they buy it the week later if they like it. But you have the trouble then of everyone running around with the same guns, which isn't so bad.

[GuyFawkes]

While i understand the logic behind having this , I dont think they will.

1)Unlocking stuff for x days to try y out just gives me the jeebies about people hacking. Make a new toon , *** in there, get x,y,z unlocked and off we go .Oops, been caught >rinse and repeat.

2)The mission system sort new players out from the get-go and lets them get into action with some direction. And any virtual thing is never going to prepare anyone much for facing real player opponents. Not forgetting, just like sanctuaries, its a timesink drawing people away from the main battle. Refer back to point 1

3)Things that affect in-game items like weapons /upgrades/sidegrades can only be bought for in-game resources . If you have x number of people working their asses off to unlock a new carbine and earn resources and Billy Bob gets his 'on loan' to try out for a while it kinda stinks, and refer back to point 1 above.

4) anything that may be bought for station cash theres a nice screen showing all the cosmetic alterations you can have before you put it on .

[Sabot]

Seeing as this is purely micro-transaction driven, having the VR would probably lower sales on the market... if you can try everything, you can easily root out the crap you dont want to use. However, I don't believe SOE are greedy like that... like some other companies that will remain nameless (*COUGHEACOUGH*)... well, if you even can call SOE greedy for that. The game is effing free... them wanting sales through the online marketplace is understadable to say the least. And I know I'll be buying stuff from there just to support them.
Yay or nay on the VR? meh... Yay I suppose. I would totaly understand if they don't have it, but I would use it if they do.

[Virulence]

From what we've been shown of the store, weapons are the LoL-Champion equivalent of PS2; unlock with resources or cash. At most, they may rotate through a set of them every week as "free" weapons you can play with for that week without needing to unlock them.

As for the shooting range, yeah, it could work - if they implemented it as, say, a lobby-esque thing where you could go play with weapons/vehicles if you wanted - or if you were waiting on a cont pop-lock queue and didn't want to stare at a log-in screen for however long.

[Crator]

Maybe they could let you rent the purchasable equipment, instead of perma buying it. This would allow you to test it out first.

[Immigrant]

You won't be buying will real cash so this is not an issue. Just play some more an unlock/buy another weapon.

VR for test flight/drives only once you unlock that particular aircraft/vehicle.

[Rexdezi]

Umm the thing is... guns aren't bought with cash, they're bought with resources. The ONLY thing bought with real world cash is cosmetic things like camo and hood ornaments. The VR room sounds like an awesome idea, but I have no idea how they'd implement it with their current model.

[Immigrant]

Maybe they could let you rent the purchasable equipment, instead of perma buying it.

This is horrible I hate buying/leasing for certain amount of time in any game I played that has this system implemented. Perma-buys FTW!

[Crator]

This is horrible I hate buying/leasing for certain amount of time in any game I played that has this system implemented. Perma-buys FTW!

Not certain I know of a game that is leasing to let you try it out though. I'd understand if the only option was to lease or the price to buy was so large that you had to lease. That would suck.

[Mackenz]

This is horrible I hate buying/leasing for certain amount of time in any game I played that has this system implemented. Perma-buys FTW!

But why not both? Or even better, Rent-to-Own so that if you try something the 1/3/7 day rental goes towards buy-out.

Not certain I know of a game that is leasing to let you try it out though. I'd understand if the only option was to lease or the price to buy was so large that you had to lease. That would suck.

Blacklight: Retribution has a 1/3/7 day rent on a lot of their stuff, which is handy given that buyout is very expensive unless you are paying hard cash.

[Hamma]

At this time they have no VR training area.

[Virulence]

Umm the thing is... guns aren't bought with cash, they're bought with resources. The ONLY thing bought with real world cash is cosmetic things like camo and hood ornaments. The VR room sounds like an awesome idea, but I have no idea how they'd implement it with their current model.

Weapon unlocks can be bought with either Station Cash OR Auraxium.

Implants and consumable weapons (ie: grenades) can only be bought with Auraxium.

Boosts (XP and Resource boosts) can only be bought with Station Cash.

[IMMentat]

They should perhaps mimic League of legends style. With a weekly free rotation of selected weapons/skins.

This gives players a chance to try a new weapon/skin, And they buy it the week later if they like it. But you have the trouble then of everyone running around with the same guns, which isn't so bad.

This plus low-cost "rentals" limited by duration (30 mins -1 an hour) and number (maximum 2-3 per week).

Plus a foothold based "firing range" where every weapon is accessible within a clearly marked zone (similar to the weapon VR in PS1).

[megamold]

how about if you would be able to pick any gun and use it for up to 2 deaths and then it would be locked forever. (until you buy it ofcourse :) )

[Nash]

Well, some kind of pre-purchase testing on weapons will have to be in the game as people generally don't like to buy the cat in the bag.

I would say something like you pay 10% of the final price which will give you a 2 days trial period to test out the new weapons. When you decide to actually buy it, those 10% would be offset against the total price so in total you would only pay 100% of the retail price.

Sounds quite fair to me :)

[capiqu]

I think its a great idea and that expanded VR training should take place in outfit specific mother ships.

[Mango]

Just wondering if there is going to be a way to try out weapons/vehicles/certs/implants out before you purchase them with the ingame currency. Same with the microtrans items.

Will there be firing range of some sort?

[Crator]

They haven't said yet... It's been asked before on these forums somewhere but nothing was said by the SOE devs about it....

[willaguy]

If anybody knew, considering your interests, you'd be the first to know.

[indirect]

More than likely there will be another VR range.

[Johari]

More than likely there will be another VR range.

They'd have to put one in each of the warpgate staging areas if so.

[Mango]

Or at least way to access it for the menu or the staging areas.

Thanks for the response, couldn't find anything myself on this and it's been bugging me. I hate buyer's remorse.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Higby has said that he's not planning on refunding spent cert points, but beyond that I don't think there's been much said.

Allowing refunds on weapons within a short window (1.5-2 hours like WoW raid gear) would be nice, but I suspect that spent currency will stay that way.

[Envenom]

Guns are like $2-$4 dollars a pop. It's not a very risky investment...

[indirect]

They'd have to put one in each of the warpgate staging areas if so.

Do you really think it's so hard? Every VR range is identical sans the VR Shooting Range has different targets for each. You just put two small "terminals" that the player hits E on and BAM right to a VR range just like before. Not that difficult to place in a Warpgate.

[indirect]

Guns are like $2-$4 dollars a pop. It's not a very risky investment...

Guns are like 0$ to 0$ a pop as you can't buy Guns with real money.

[Soothsayer]

Guns are like 0$ to 0$ a pop as you can't buy Guns with real money.

Not exactly. The skills (certifications) associated with the guns can't be purchased. You can unlock guns and attachments with Auraxium and whatever you can unlock with Auraxium, you can unlock with Station Cash.

[Sensator]

Guns are like 0$ to 0$ a pop as you can't buy Guns with real money.

You can indeed unlock guns with station cash.

[Crator]

I believe term used by SOE is, side-grades. If that comes in the form of a different gun or just an attachment to an existing gun is the same thing..... Either or, they said a side-grade is something that changes a stat in one area for the better and takes away in another area....

[indirect]

You can indeed unlock guns with station cash.

What ever happened to can't buy power with SC? Oh yeah it's SOE they lie about everything, I forgot.

[The Kush]

I would really like a VR room. There has been multiple topics on this but I have never commented.

As far as space, just make a terminal inside each warp gate that "warps" you to a VR room.

[Sensator]

What ever happened to can't buy power with SC? Oh yeah it's SOE they lie about everything, I forgot.

The only thing they promised was that anything that effects gameplay or is otherwise non-cosmetic, can also be bought with Auraxium rather than station cash. They never promised anything else.

[Dairian]

Once again this thread has been posted over and over..

if you buy a weapon you don't like just keep playing until you can buy something different.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080202231409/uncyclopedia/images/1/11/Beating-a-dead-horse.gif

[NCLynx]

You can indeed unlock guns with station cash.

Unless something has changed (which I admit very well may have), you can unlock everything FOR a gun(s) with SC or In game currency not additional guns.

[Dairian]

What ever happened to can't buy power with SC? Oh yeah it's SOE they lie about everything, I forgot.

They are not power. Different guns are side grades. Fire faster but don't hit as hard. Or Fire slower and hit harder. But in the end they kill the same. That is what Higby has been saying. So its more about your play style and not about pure power.

Don't quote me on this but I am sure I heard somewhere that you have the basic weapons unlocked from day one. So all the other weapons will be variants of the basic weapons. Which means they are not power upgrades.

[indirect]

The only thing they promised was that anything that effects gameplay or is otherwise non-cosmetic, can also be bought with Auraxium rather than station cash. They never promised anything else.

Not sure if serious, or new to PS2.
http://www.shacknews.com/article/72872/planetside-2s-free-to-play-economy-explained
What were you saying? They didn't promise no "pay-to-win"? Last I checked guns are required to win. If you can simply BUY the most powerful gun and cert, than you can just PAY to win. hurr fucking durr.

[Sensator]

Not sure if serious, or new to PS2.
http://www.shacknews.com/article/72872/planetside-2s-free-to-play-economy-explained
What were you saying? They didn't promise no "pay-to-win"? Last I checked guns are required to win. If you can simply BUY the most powerful gun and cert, than you can just PAY to win. hurr fucking durr.

I don't think you understand what Pay-To-Win means. It refers to several F2P games wherein you can pay for ridiculously overpowered weapons that are unavailable to someone who didn't pay anything--that is what they mean by Pay to Win.

[willaguy]

Not sure if serious, or new to PS2.
http://www.shacknews.com/article/72872/planetside-2s-free-to-play-economy-explained
What were you saying? They didn't promise no "pay-to-win"? Last I checked guns are required to win. If you can simply BUY the most powerful gun and cert, than you can just PAY to win. hurr fucking durr.

I'm just going by what SOE has said. But you can only by sidegrades, which is where you sacrifice one thing for another, for example, faster fire rate and less accuracy. Again I'm just going by what SOE said.

[Littleman]

Paying real money is a short cut towards the same rewards you'll eventually get just playing the game.

Everything in life has two costs: time and money. Any good cash shop will sell cosmetic items and "power" as long as that power can be obtained in game for "free" provided one commits to working towards it.

Servers don't run themselves. Getting upset over people paying for conveniences in an F2P is, frankly, childish, because you're getting worked up without thinking about who's paying what could have been your subscription fee.

As for the topic at hand: I'm counting on a simulator of some kind. I'm definitely not up for "free trials" of heavy ordinance in the field.

[indirect]

I don't think you understand what Pay-To-Win means. It refers to several F2P games wherein you can pay for ridiculously overpowered weapons that are unavailable to someone who didn't pay anything--that is what they mean by Pay to Win.

You must be new to gaming.

[Mango]

The first thread I've posted in seven years and it gets derailed with a flame war.

:rofl: I missed this place

[Envenom]

You must be new to gaming.

You must be new to the English language. He speaks the truth.

It's not P2W since anyone can unlock the gun, with or without station cash. P2W insinuates that it is unavailable if you don't pay. (AKA 'PAY TO WIN')

Durrrrr

[PhoenixDog]

What ever happened to can't buy power with SC? Oh yeah it's SOE they lie about everything, I forgot.

When you make a new soldier in PS2, you have access to all the guns. Theer are only so many guns in the game anyway. Through Station Cash, you can purchase versions of the "Cycler" that make it fire faster but do less damage, or has a larger mag clip but reloads slower...A plus in one category but a negative in another. Essentially you can purchase the type of cycler that you want and fits your preferred play style. However...These same upgrades, or "Side-Grades" as their called do not make a gun any more stronger or weaker. It's an even trade-off in one category for another. These side-grades can also be purchased with Auraxium and not just station cash.

Attachments and camos for guns are also in the same boat. They can be purchased for Station Cash and/or Auraxium depending on what you'd prefer. Once again, this does not make a gun any more powerful, just gives it a more *you* feel.

The only thing you can buy for Station Cash that you cannot buy for Auraxium is "Convenience" items. Things like XP boosts or what not. Nothing that makes you better than someone else, but just levels you quicker. And if you played PS1, you'd know that even someone at BR8 stands just as much of a chance against someone who is BR35. Just that the BR35 has more options to play with than the 8.

Pay to Win means that you can buy an item that is unavailable to anyone outside of Station Cash. SoE has said countless times that anything that can be bought with SC can be bought with Auraxium (sans those Convenience items from before). Nothing in the Station Store will sell power for SC.

The only way to make yourself stronger is through certifications. Suddenly your Magrider is faster than My Magrider...Oh, you have more certs into "Movement speed". Mine shoots faster than yours does though. No Pay to Win here.

Hope that clears things up =)

:vsrocks:

[Madlaps]

You must be new to the English language. He speaks the truth.

It's not P2W since anyone can unlock the gun, with or without station cash. P2W insinuates that it is unavailable if you don't pay. (AKA 'PAY TO WIN')

Durrrrr

Uh, no it doesn't.

Pay to win is when you can buy POWER that you may or may not otherwise do with time and effort, with real money. So you can just pay your way with everything, INSTEAD of putting in time and effort. Buying a side grade is not POWER, thus SIDE grade. The fact that you can or can't get it with time and effort, means nothing - as you're skipping the part where you actually have to play the game to get upgrades that enhance your stats or power.

The way SOE is doing it, is you have to put time and effort to unlock a type of gun and then you can pay real money for sidegrades (variants) OF THAT SAME GUN.

For example, to get the MCG, i have to unlock the gun and / cert. Then once I have unlocked it with my time and effort - I can then buy a MCG variant with real life money that fires faster and does less damage.. thus a trade off, and the term side grade.

If you're going to call people wrong, at least be fucking right. You saying durr is kind of ironic.

Paying real money is a short cut towards the same rewards you'll eventually get just playing the game.

Everything in life has two costs: time and money. Any good cash shop will sell cosmetic items and "power" as long as that power can be obtained in game for "free" provided one commits to working towards it.

Servers don't run themselves. Getting upset over people paying for conveniences in an F2P is, frankly, childish, because you're getting worked up without thinking about who's paying what could have been your subscription fee.

As for the topic at hand: I'm counting on a simulator of some kind. I'm definitely not up for "free trials" of heavy ordinance in the field.

As above, if you can pay money for POWER that would otherwise take time and effort - it is still pay to win. If i can pay RL money for a weapon that gives +20% damage that I would otherwise need to spend 3 months gaming to get - that is the epitome of pay to win.

[Fenrys]

whatever you can unlock with Auraxium, you can unlock with Station Cash.


Certain things are Auraxium-only. Implants for example.

[Bags]

Power items are Auxirum only (grenades, medkits, implants).
Side grades are cash or auxirium.
Cosmetics are cash only.

[Sabot]

The giraffe camo is clearly OP and thus P2W... NERF OR N0 PLEY KKKK!?!???!??

[Kran De Loy]

FLAME ON!




Side Note: I'm disappointed in the world even more than I was before now. I googled 'Waynes World Flame On' for a gif of wayne and garth playing street hockey only to find that more than 80% of the images returned were of some ******. :sick:

[Crator]

If i can pay RL money for a weapon that gives +20% damage....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they are going to avoid giving +20% damage stat bonuses, period. I guess they could work it out somehow to lower another stat with it but giving damage bonuses just seem like it will be too over powered imo....

[Kayos]

Lets wait for beta and we will all find out exactly how it will all work :)

[Professor Frink]

At first I was not sold on losing the sanctuaries but then I remembered how much time I used to waste in PS1 running around from the HART to the warp gates etc... So, I dig the new continental foothold concept but my question is will the VR range return? I was a terrible pilot and needed it to figure out what the hell I was doing. I liked testing all the weapons & vehicles before certing into them. Forgive me if this is a redundant thread. I can't skim all 1500.

[Bazilx]

Doubtful at launch, atleast all I've heard have been "No's"

[Ratstomper]

I like the idea of Outfit motherships that can support VR technology. It makes sense for an outfit to have a tool to run simulations and get their team in fighting shape. I would kinda like an attack/defense simulator and a vehicle area (like in PS1, but with targets). Another incentive to join an outfit and play with a team...

[Stardouser]

I like the idea of Outfit motherships that can support VR technology. It makes sense for an outfit to have a tool to run simulations and get their team in fighting shape. I would kinda like an attack/defense simulator and a vehicle area (like in PS1, but with targets). Another incentive to join an outfit and play with a team...

LOL, this reminds me, in IRC a while back we were dreaming up stuff like neutral non combat territory such as cruise ships out in the ocean where players of all factions could use things like VR stations and that kind of thing. Dumb idea, yes, just saying.

[maddoggg]

I like your idea OP.
It would also be very nice if you can try out the weapons and equipment you havent unlocked yet on some shooting range(kinda like in tribes ascend).

[capiqu]

These are great ideas. I'm all for Virtual Reality training rooms on Outfit base Mother ships. You can do all the training on the mother ship, solo, squad, platoon, outfit or even invite other outfits to train together. It would also be nice if the VR rooms would generate any base or map sections of the continents to practice for operations on the conts day or night. Maybe even dual with no grief.

[thegreekboy]

A training ground of sorts would be really nice. I don't want to jump into a game and see new people flying mossies into cliffs and wasting resources and I DEFINITELY don't want to be the guy running the mossie into the cliff.

[fishirboy]

Interesting thoughts! I think that expanding the VR area would be a good investment in the game for those outfits that want to spend more time refining their skills.

I agree, they could allow you to invite people and the sides would not matter. So if you have a TR friend and your VS you guys could get in the same ship for some target practice. Just some fun messing around in other faction's items (not that i want to do that TR and NC can go die in a hole the new is better)

Also Edit: I like the idea of trying any weapon, test out each one and see witch one fits better and tec to it and that should be good yep?

[AzK]

no need for any ai, a vr thing like the old one, where you can try everything to see what it actually does on target dummies, would be just fine

[Wayside]

Okay, so I've actually given a lot of though as to what the VR does for us. Apart from letting us see what weapons and vehicles are available, not to much. Here is my proposal...

Virtual Reality

1. Shooting Range - Familiarize yourself with the available weaponry.
2. Vehicle Range - Familiarize yourself with available vehicles and their controls.
3. Training Scenarios - Face AI's of varied difficulties to learn combat basics. Training Scenarios can be entered as an individual or as a squad.

3.1 - Infantry - A series of conflicts in which the user faces AI's using various tactics and weapons depending on the difficulty chosen.
3.2 - Vehicles - Same as infantry, though the user can pick a vehicle and their position in the vehicle.
3.3 - Aircraft - Same as previous two only in regards to aircraft.

I feel having this third option in VR would be the most beneficial to older players and those wishing to refine their tactics before trying them in the field. It would also allow squads to develop team tactics as well. While I recognize this IS NOT necessary to the game's livelihood, I do think that it would make the VR more practical.

Feedback anyone? :D

Totally in favor of a VR training option in PS2 similar to what was present in PS1. The implied omission of this feature is on a very short list of what I consider to be VERY disappointing decisions by Higby and company. Especially given the increased sense of investment present with the complicated cert and currency systems being introduced.

I can't imagine they thought removing VR Training would improve the game in any way shape or form. Have to believe they were just looking to save on development time by not adding it. I'd strongly encourage them to reconsider that. This goes right up there with vehicle entry / exit animations as details that helped make PS1 the incredible game that it was. Their absence is rabble rabble, angry noises, gotta go to the bathroom but you get my point.

[Ghostwing]

[/QUOTE]I really liked the VR in PS1 for all the reasons you have already mentioned. But has anyone heard anything about VR from the dev-team? Is there going to be a VR at all?:confused:

Nevermind. I din't read the thread properly before posting. Apologies!:doh:

Admin. please feel free to remove this post. (I cant find where to do it myself)

[Marinealver]

In the old training missions of PS! (the first one which did none other but get me killed lol) I was able to get up to BR6 before I started to hit the field. Even though they were porly concieved especially with the first one being instant action that takes you to a camped spawn room, I find that when you go thorugh all of them you have a better understanding.

So I try and look for the new players, those Cr0Br1 in PJs and useing a supressor, grab them make a training squad, then walk them through each of the missions. Also so them tricks like storing medpacks and ammo in the trunk and saving in the favorites at a veh station.