Reducing downtime

[DviddLeff]

Smed has stated that he thought Sancs slowed the game down too much.

I disagree and feel that the sancs have significant value being the one safe place in the game world where you can meet up with your outfit to prepare for an assault.

Also reading the Longgame Blog (http://www.planetside-universe.com/news-planetside-on-the-long-game-blog-2459.htm) he complains about finding a fight and just getting killed when you do eventually make it. Those reading this will likely disagree; yesterday it took me two minutes to log on and meet up with my squad but yes I have a Mossie certed to do just that. Even if I didn't I could still wait on the HART for a couple of minutes and again join them in under 5 minutes.

However, there is a lot of downtime in PS, so how can it be reduced?

Few thoughts and ideas (certainly not all my own):

Reduce base hacks to 10 minutes
Allow players to respawn at the squad home base from anywhere, even if they have not visited it.
Allow advanced medics to deploy spawn points in the field, without requiring an AMS to increase spawn options for all players (probably closer to the fight).
Allow players to choose their respawn point while still remaining on the ground to be revived, just in case. Also have the respawn timer count down while they choose.
Allow players to respawn in a Sunderer or parked Galaxy if there are free passenger slot available.
Allow players to choose a favourite load out to spawn with (also reduced the effect of spawn campers).

[Firefly]

I guess people don't understand the concept of "timely". If someone is spending too much time in Sanctuary, then he/she needs to light a fire under the collective ass of his/her outfit mates. And if they're collective slackers, either figure out how to change that, put up with it and shut up, or leave the outfit. It's that simple.

My outfit runs drills to reduce downtime, among other drills to reduce clusterfucks in pre-combat conditions. If I schedule an "outfit night" for 7pm, at 7:15 I expect to be passing through a warpgate on my way to bend Barney over and fuck him in the ass.

[Lartnev]

Allow advanced medics to deploy spawn points in the field, without requiring an AMS to increase spawn options for all players (probably closer to the fight).


I'd only support this if it required an AMS to be within a certain range.

I like sanctuaries too, it was the closest thing to home and was cool to hang out in once in a while to plan certs, chat in IRC, or whatever.

Combining thoughts with the Galaxy getting a bigger role it would be nice to see a sort of pick-up system for stray soldiers to get them into the fight, or a ferry system where a gal pilot/commander highlights a bus service between two points.

[CutterJohn]

I'd totally agree that sanc needed to be streamlined. It was a bit clunky, with little point or purpose. The spawn in, vehicle terminals, VR, etc, could have all been in the HART building easily. A warpgate just down the block(there were a couple horribad warpgate placements for ground vehicles. So much so you'd just go through the teleport to one of the other bases). It should take 15 seconds to go from spawning to in a vehicle/hart and on your way to combat.

Sure, keep a door outside for people to go outside and gather for a raid or something.

Infantry/MAX harts should be instant. I could see vehicle harts as well. Perhaps not the AMS, but the rest should be fine. Those would obviously have a timer.


Not terribly keen on more spawn points. The time you lose when you die is the only downside to death. Would you think that making a faster turnaround for tanks or MAXs is a good idea?

[Manitou]

I guess people don't understand the concept of "timely". If someone is spending too much time in Sanctuary, then he/she needs to light a fire under the collective ass of his/her outfit mates. And if they're collective slackers, either figure out how to change that, put up with it and shut up, or leave the outfit. It's that simple.

My outfit runs drills to reduce downtime, among other drills to reduce clusterfucks in pre-combat conditions. If I schedule an "outfit night" for 7pm, at 7:15 I expect to be passing through a warpgate on my way to bend Barney over and fuck him in the ass.
/signed.

[DviddLeff]

Added a couple of more ideas.

Firefly I totally agree; 3 of our outfit war matches were delayed by up to an hour because our rivals were not ready... when we had up to 45 guys ready and waiting to go quarter of an hour before the deadline.

[Timantium]

However, there is a lot of downtime in PS, so how can it be reduced?

Few thoughts and ideas (certainly not all my own):

Reduce base hacks to 10 minutes Love it
Allow players to respawn at the squad home base from anywhere, even if they have not visited it. Love it
Allow advanced medics to deploy spawn points in the field, without requiring an AMS to increase spawn options for all players (probably closer to the fight). NOT
Allow players to choose their respawn point while still remaining on the ground to be revived, just in case. Also have the respawn timer count down while they choose.NOT
Allow players to respawn in a Sunderer or parked Galaxy if there are free passenger slot available.NOT
Allow players to choose a favourite load out to spawn with (also reduced the effect of spawn campers). Love it


My comments are color coded. Tech=Might

The three I didn't like take too much of the movement in base out of the game. That's not really "downtime" that is transit time. Sitting guarding a hack on an abandoned cont for 15 minutes is downtime (except for the last 3 minutes if they put a hot drop together). It's a choice to wait for a medic or respawn, a choice good players learn to make wisely.

[MooK]

Smed has stated that he thought Sancs slowed the game down too much.

I disagree and feel that the sancs have significant value being the one safe place in the game world where you can meet up with your outfit to prepare for an assault.

Also reading the Longgame Blog (http://www.planetside-universe.com/news-planetside-on-the-long-game-blog-2459.htm) he complains about finding a fight and just getting killed when you do eventually make it. Those reading this will likely disagree; yesterday it took me two minutes to log on and meet up with my squad but yes I have a Mossie certed to do just that. Even if I didn't I could still wait on the HART for a couple of minutes and again join them in under 5 minutes.

However, there is a lot of downtime in PS, so how can it be reduced?


I agree completely. Sanctuaries in their current form are extremely important. There is a lot of potential here, and scrapping the whole idea in favor of reducing downtime, or streamlining the game into some action-packed garbage is a terrible way to go about it. Innovate, make it better, don't just get rid of it.


Few thoughts and ideas (certainly not all my own):

Reduce base hacks to 10 minutes
Allow players to respawn at the squad home base from anywhere, even if they have not visited it.
Allow advanced medics to deploy spawn points in the field, without requiring an AMS to increase spawn options for all players (probably closer to the fight).
Allow players to choose their respawn point while still remaining on the ground to be revived, just in case. Also have the respawn timer count down while they choose.
Allow players to respawn in a Sunderer or parked Galaxy if there are free passenger slot available.
Allow players to choose a favourite load out to spawn with (also reduced the effect of spawn campers).


I think base hacks at 15 minutes are fine. HARTs at 10 minutes seemed fine to me too. I think AMS' in their current form are fine. They are portable spawning systems, we don't need another way to do it. I really don't think allowing us to spawn inside of vehicles is a good idea. You're effectively reducing the concept of working together to setup a spawn point, giving each other cover fire, and being a cohesive army in favor of faster action.


I believe that we should be allowed to customize our STANDARD load out, but we shouldn't be able to spawn in full gear. The solution to spawn camping? Spawn somewhere else, get geared up, deconstruct and spawn back at the base. Then you can do some damage.

[Traak]

I think the pain of having to wait to get back into the action is part of the motivation to do well, and not just mindlessly UT zerg-and-die.

[Bags]

Base hacks shouldn't be 15 minutes. That or they need to give a boatload more xp. Sorry, I don't pay $15/mo to sit around in an empty base that MIGHT be contested for 2.5k XP.

[DviddLeff]

Especially when single tank kill can earn you that much and more.

[Bags]

Interesting idea: More fighting in soi after hack = longer cap time? Up to a max of 15 mins, maybe a minimum of 3 - 5 mins?

If people show up and fight for the base, it has to be held longer. If no one shows up it's a quick cap.

Just an idea.

[DviddLeff]

Not sure; for an empire that is trying to organise a re-secure they need to know how long they have to get themselves organised and strike back. If its based around fighting in the SOI after the hack then as they form up and organise the time will shrink, and they miss their chance.

I think 10 minutes is a decent reduction, any shorter and it becomes too hard to counter attack effectively.

[Bags]

Not sure; for an empire that is trying to organise a re-secure they need to know how long they have to get themselves organised and strike back. If its based around fighting in the SOI after the hack then as they form up and organise the time will shrink, and they miss their chance.

I think 10 minutes is a decent reduction, any shorter and it becomes too hard to counter attack effectively.

I meant more like, hack starts, enemies all removed, hack timer starts 5:00. It gets down to 2:34 as you enter SOI with galaxy / ams / what have you, start fighting at BD / roof terms / CC whatever, timer shoots up to 8:34.

Something like that.

Ten minutes is a good compromise though. Shorter, but still time for a counter attack.

[basti]

10 minutes hack? faster respawn mechanics? what?

You guys forgot a very important thing: The flow of combat. If you allow people to spawn quicker and closer to the fights, every single fight will turn into a massive war, and suprise attacks will be harder to pull off. Pushing through a defended base will be even harder than it is now, because the wall of enemys will break even slower. Yea, you have more bodies to throw at it, but how often do people rush in knowing they will be dead before they even reach the next level of the stairs? The faster spawns etc goes, the faster battles will turn into a massive stalemate. And the faster people can relocate, the harder it will be to break those stalemates by backhacking somewher else.
!0 minutes for a hack sounds awesome if you just look at it, but if you remember what that really means, you will understand that it makes resecures of bases hold by the enemy zerg almost impossible. These days, they are hard, but with 5 minutes less time they are pretty much impossible, because you cant clean the entire base in time. To fix this, TTK would need to be faster, speeding the game itself up entierly, and that is a bad thing.
The faster stuff goes, the more stress you end up having. And only few people want to be stressed by a game without good downtimes. Most people these days enjoy slacking for a few minutes after a outstanding base battle. They have 15 minutes time to go pee, grab som food, do whatever. If you speed the game speed up, you may end up taking away that possibilty. Thos who dont take a short break will enjoy, but those who do take a short break will be pissed. And alot of people take the short break.


With that in mind, i would support everything that gets people to the battle after they logged in. Being able to drop from the hart every few secs for example. Just to allow you to get somewhere quickly. But speeding everything up is a big no go. Planetside has a fine balance with that stuff, that balance should stay, because getting it right is propably the hardest challenge for MMOFPS games.

[Raymac]

Interesting idea: More fighting in soi after hack = longer cap time? Up to a max of 15 mins, maybe a minimum of 3 - 5 mins?

If people show up and fight for the base, it has to be held longer. If no one shows up it's a quick cap.

Just an idea.

I like this idea alot. For me, it seems the biggest downtimes are when you are guarding a hack for 15 minutes. When it's being contested, sure it's good times, but when it's not....yeah we've all been there. However, you don't want to make the timer too short because defenders should have a chance to stop the hack. Shortening it to 10 mins is a good idea too, but this idea of it being more dynamic is very cool.

Using a system like this, if they could find a way to make it work, would do alot at cutting the downtime. The rest of the spawn stuff I don't really see as much of a problem, but then again, I'm aircav so I could be way off on that.

[DviddLeff]

Rather than make it a just "sense" when there are defenders in the area and thereby increase the hack timer, perhaps allow the defenders to set up some kind of vehicle or deployable in the SOI that can extend it and give them more time to resecure?

[Bags]

Rather than make it a just "sense" when there are defenders in the area and thereby increase the hack timer, perhaps allow the defenders to set up some kind of vehicle or deployable in the SOI that can extend it and give them more time to resecure?

Some sort of jammer vehicle?

[basti]

Rather than make it a just "sense" when there are defenders in the area and thereby increase the hack timer, perhaps allow the defenders to set up some kind of vehicle or deployable in the SOI that can extend it and give them more time to resecure?

A vehicle that, if deployed, can stop the hack for lets say five minutes? Now THATS an awesome idea. I like it alot, someone get a SOE guy over here!

[DviddLeff]

Tasty; added it as a feature of the amusingly named H-AMS in my Support Overhaul (https://sites.google.com/site/planetsideupgradeproject/phase-2/support-overhaul).

https://sites.google.com/site/planetsideupgradeproject/_/rsrc/1277826538893/phase-2/support-overhaul/HAMS.jpg?height=306&width=400

[Raymac]

ooooooooohhhhhhh, hell yeah! Let me just say, I LOVE where your heads are at, guys. This is a brilliant idea.

[CutterJohn]

I think hacking would be a better fit for this than an entire vehicle. A virus that resets the 5 minute countdown, perhaps, and can be uploaded from any terminal.

[Lartnev]

I was thinking along similar lines that the ratio of attackers to defenders could affect the rate at which a base was taken rather than increasing block amounts of time (an ETA on the hack would still be provided for convenience) so I at first liked that idea.

However I fear that it will lead to zergs steam-rolling continents before any defence could be put into place. 15 minutes is an excruciating wait on a personal level so I support its reduction to an average of 10 but if it ever got down to 3-5 minutes it just wouldn't give enough time to organise a continent's defence.

I think hacking would be a better fit for this than an entire vehicle. A virus that resets the 5 minute countdown, perhaps, and can be uploaded from any terminal.

I prefer this idea to that of an AMS jammer. Partly because I don't think it makes much sense (apart from as a game mechanic) and partly becaue AMSs already provide a means to help retake bases.

Also there are a number of reasons I really like the hack idea:

Infiltrators can hide in the base and make nuisances of themselves without resorting to suicidal attempts on well defended areas of the base
Attacking forces' first port of call could be to repair/secure a terminal to upload the virus
The most effective solution would be to blow up all the terminals which I think adds a nice twist.

[CutterJohn]

You could make it take 15 minutes between base captures by your empire on a continent. That would prevent the steam rolling across. Since most base fights take considerably longer than 15 minutes, most other times this would be unnoticeable, like how the 5 minute vehicle timer is unnoticeable to a good tank crew.

[Vancha]

I started reading this wondering why the idea of a dynamic timer seemed to be escaping everyone, then bags came to the rescue.

When people talk about the boring times in Planetside, it's pretty likely they're remembering 15 minutes of defending a CC without any action going on.

Somewhere between 8-12 minutes by default seems good, with a defending hacker being able to extend it to 15-20 minutes, but also being able to undo that extension. I have no idea whether main terminals will exist in PSN, but something like mid-way between the spawns and CC seems like a good place for this to happen.

Here's a thought. How do you stop people defending the CC while fighting is still going on in another part of the base from getting bored? Maybe being able to "jack in" (Andromeda-style) to a CC? I don't know what you'd do there though, maybe control aspects of the base or do battle with enemy hackers...perhaps even meet the base AI itself (either to fight it, or solve some kind of puzzle)? Maybe being there would constantly deplete your health in the "real world", giving medics something to do while holding the CC too.

[Hamma]

Some very cool ideas in this thread!

I have nothing to add just wanted to mention there are some great ideas here. ;)

[brinkdadrink]

What if there were two hacks in a base.

Hear me out. The first hack would be in the lobby say it runs for 8-10 minutes. Then when that hack is done you need to finish the hack at the CC which lasts say 5 minutes. I say this because once you reach the CC basicly the battle is over and the spawn tubes are killed. The 5 minutes would give time to regroup at another base for a drop. This also give 2 places to guard both the lobby and the CC. If the hack at the Lobby is undone it resets the timer to 5 minutes if re hacked. If the CC is taken then it undos both hacks and returns the base to normal.

[Lartnev]

The first hack would be in the lobby say it runs for 8-10 minutes. Then when that hack is done you need to finish the hack at the CC which lasts say 5 minutes. I say this because once you reach the CC basicly the battle is over and the spawn tubes are killed. The 5 minutes would give time to regroup at another base for a drop. This also give 2 places to guard both the lobby and the CC. If the hack at the Lobby is undone it resets the timer to 5 minutes if re hacked. If the CC is taken then it undos both hacks and returns the base to normal.

I think this idea has merit. Needs work but I like the idea of getting some of the hack out of the way before it's game over for the defenders which lessens the time after it is. Good stuff :nod:

[brinkdadrink]

Ok let me try and refine my thoughts

2 hacking locations.
CC = main hacking terminal
Lobby = Secondary terminal

How it would work:
- If the lobby is hacked then the 15 min timer will start countdown with *
- If the CC is not hacked by the time the timer reaches 5 min then the timer stops at 5 min
- If the CC is hacked before the timer reaches the 5 min mark the * is removed and
continues as normal
- If the CC is hacked before the lobby then the timer will start at a 10min mark and count down fully until retaken
- If the CC is hacked before the timer reaches teh 10 min mark then it is set to th 10 min mark
- If either the Lobby or the CC is hacked but not both, the timer will count down but will not go under 5 minutes. If the timer reaches 5 minutes it will pause until further change

This means that if you lose one of the two terminals the hack does not reset but will just go back to 5 minutes or more (if there is more time remaining than 5 minutes)
This will greatly decrease down time because you can still be working yourself into the base while the timer is ticking. If your ghost hacking the time to take a base will only be 10 minutes not 15.

If anyone has any better suggestions im all ears

[Hamma]

I really like that idea also - I think it would be a great system that has the possibility of reducing hack time or making it longer depending on the combat.

[Timantium]

Base hacks shouldn't be 15 minutes. That or they need to give a boatload more xp. Sorry, I don't pay $15/mo to sit around in an empty base that MIGHT be contested for 2.5k XP.

Interesting idea: More fighting in soi after hack = longer cap time? Up to a max of 15 mins, maybe a minimum of 3 - 5 mins?

If people show up and fight for the base, it has to be held longer. If no one shows up it's a quick cap.

Just an idea.

Not sure; for an empire that is trying to organise a re-secure they need to know how long they have to get themselves organised and strike back. If its based around fighting in the SOI after the hack then as they form up and organise the time will shrink, and they miss their chance.

I think 10 minutes is a decent reduction, any shorter and it becomes too hard to counter attack effectively.

Maybe raise the minimum time, but I like the idea of a stall tactic. How many times have we seen this in war? Think Soviet defense at Stalingrad. This would allow empires to literally plan stall tactics to engage a war of attrittion.

If the attackers are so overwhelming they push defenders out of the SOI, they should be rewared with a faster cap.

**Edit
I thought about this more, I still like the idea of faster action on a contested continent. However, that creates a problem for opening new continental battles and backhacking.

I think perhaps we need to add a new caveat to this reduced downtime plan. Lets say we get a shorter, or a variable cap time IF, and only IF, we have a LOCAL lattice link to the base. No Warpgate link, but a link from another base we already own.

This would keep the defense of locked continents/backhacks the same (15 min) as the original PS, while allowing existing conflict on fully contested continents to flow faster.

I also prefer the jammer vehicle idea to extend time for defenders rather than the virus. If someone can get into the base and install a virus, then the defense of the hack is not good enough anyway and it should just reset lol.