What scares me most of all.

[Hamma]

So I really try hard to read all of the discussions going on in the forum, sure I miss some here and there but I think I stay on top of it.

And I have to admit, the thing that frightens me most about some conversations is people's desire to become one man armies.

They may or may not admit that, but some of the discussions really make it apparent they want to be able to take on anything with anything else. I am hoping that Sony does not go down that path and TEAM still remains the most important aspect.

I have to think they know this and will not go down the path of solo pwn machines.

[GoldDragon]

I agree there...

I will admit that I like being able to do basically anything I need to but at the same time I recognize that such an ability takes away from overall gameplay. I know that rely on my teammates heavily when they're on, but when it's just me or I'm off on a scouting mission I can still do almost anything I need to without them.

While it would take getting used to, I would definitely like to see more specializations (ie you can only pick on support tree, or vehicle set, etc).

[Wrath]

totally agree people are to used to arcade action games like cod and battlefield where a tank wasnt a treat is was a target for C4. while that was and is fun in those games the appealing nature of planetside to me was always the feeling you where party of something largers you where 1 cog in an army. its the team work that I like and want to see in PS:S not the lone gun rambo type game play you get everywhere else.

[Rbstr]

The critical thing is the you find a way to keep people from taking tons of hats at once.

For instance, you can't have Rexo with an HA weapon and an AV weapon without more drawbacks than it had before.

It's funny you mention BF as a counter-example. Because, while it does play solo, far more than I'd like planetside to, it does a rather good job at requiring class balance on a team (at least in BC2). Teams that lack people in certain classes or stack a certain class more often than not have a very hard time actually winning. Sure, the assault team full of snipers will have a great KD ratio...but they'll lose in the end because they can't take the base.

[Wrath]

it does require any class balance at all and using snipers as an example is rather poor really cause weather it be battlefield or cod or planetside you have a team full of snipers your gonna lose. thats not the game making the balaince its a fact if you dont push for objectives your never gonna take em

[DviddLeff]

Its that squad experience where PS shines.

What I really want is PS2 to not only get that right, but build it up so you get platoons and even companies working together across a combat zone.

[Bags]

All I want is a mossie that can hot drop, rexo, HA and AV. They can do whatever else they want with the game, I don't care. I know a lot of my friends will not resub if we were forced to have someone cert galaxy to do anything as a squad.

I'm fine with galaxy zerg-fit play existing, but these playstyles can co-exist without having to remove mine. I don't see why you guys fail to understand "different strokes for different folks".


For instance, you can't have Rexo with an HA weapon and an AV weapon without more drawbacks than it had before.

Er, there's actually a big drawback. Limited vehicles and limited support certs. I'm not sure how "HA/REXO/AV" is a "ton of hats". That's one god damn loadout good in two - three situations. Indoors and outdoors against infantry.

[DviddLeff]

And that is exactly what I want removed for the sake of teamwork.

Edit: not strictly true, but I don't want Mossies to have an AI farming nose gun and I don't want people to bail from a combat aircraft with current HA or AV.

[Bags]

And that is exactly what I want removed for the sake of teamwork.

Edit: not strictly true, but I don't want Mossies to have an AI farming nose gun and I don't want people to bail from a combat aircraft with current HA or AV.

Well I want plasma and AI maxes removed but unfortunately you don't always get what you want.

I don't understand how you guys have come to the conclusion that grunting and teamwork are mutually exclusive. The best (teamwork oriented) outfits play Hot Drop style (KOTOR, DT, FC, 1CMM) so I really don't see how mossies/HA discourage teamwork. I just don't see how being a powerhouse indoors takes away from teamwork. Even the best players rarely can kill more than 1 GOOD person in the same fight.

It just really sounds like you want the players who are best at fighting indoors nerfed down to your level of play. Other than the mossie, it's fairly easy to kill these so called, "one man armies". Use grenades. Use maxes. Use numbers. Be better than him (except for Chinese players).

What scares me most of all is the chance of PSN ending up where I can't blow my nose without a teammate. (BTW, why didn't you put @ bags instead of "they"? I'm the only person on here who supports grunts)

PS: If I put in my signature, "I DO NOT SUPPORT MOSSIE FARMING INFANTRY WITH THE DEGREE OF EASE WHICH OCCURS NOW", will people stop assuming I support the current mossie's abilities?

[DviddLeff]

Its not that the air cav based outfits don't use teamwork, its that the air cav outfits have found the method that works best both outdoors and in and use it.

Vehicle drivers shouldn't be able to jump out and be effective infantry; they should have to find an equipment terminal to change into more appropriate gear.
As it is pilots/drivers use HA/AV and are on a pretty much equal footing with dedicated grunts with Rexo. It makes the transport vehicles all but obsolete as it does any outdoor fight as the air cav can just bypass it with hardly any risk.

Its not about teamwork (yes I said it was before, but I wasn't thinking straight) its about making everything in the game have an effective role.

[Bags]

Its not that the air cav based outfits don't use teamwork, its that the air cav outfits have found the method that works best both outdoors and in and use it.

Vehicle drivers shouldn't be able to jump out and be effective infantry; they should have to find an equipment terminal to change into more appropriate gear.
As it is pilots/drivers use HA/AV and are on a pretty much equal footing with dedicated grunts with Rexo. It makes the transport vehicles all but obsolete as it does any outdoor fight as the air cav can just bypass it with hardly any risk.

Its not about teamwork (yes I said it was before, but I wasn't thinking straight) its about making everything in the game have an effective role.

I don't support the mossie being able to kill infantry. Why is this point continuously ignored? If everyone in the outfit takes mossie for transport, as opposed to 2 - 3 people certing galaxies, look how many more certs the second outfit has. The first outfit is much more specialized. With BR20/25 you can do grunt loadout(HA/Rexo/Med/Eng/AV), a mossie, and maybe one other cert(if BR25). That's pretty damn specialized. You're a grunt with one transport that can only take you from point A to B.

If you're dying to vehicle drivers who hop out, I don't know what to tell you. They're already in agile. It can be very disorienting to get out of a vehicle, and you should be able to get a few shots of on the driver before he gets his bearings.

Same deal with pilots. They're in agile, you're in rexo. You generally have the home field advantage. (maxes, they have to come to you, more grenades, more medkits, more cover, teammates) Agile itself is a fairly big handicap. The only reason it isn't in planetside currently is due to the bad netcode, the speed agile gives you is enormous. If they can eliminate / greatly reduce warping, I believe agile to be the perfect handicap for being in a vehicle. (Dueling with my non-warping friend when he's in agile and I'm in rexo is a complete joke.)

I'm all for buffing support roles, but they should do it by buffing support and not-nerfing singleplay. Allow galaxies to hold more, give them built in EMP, make them faster, sleeker, whatever. (they also need to make support / tactical play give A LOT more experience. As it stands, five kills in a tower on a planet with 50% incentives are worth more than a five hour interlink base capture) Make advanced medics stronger, make advanced engineers strong. Make vehicles require more gunners to be effective killing machines. Do not completely nerf solo-play. Planetside will not do great if they alienate solo-play. A group using teamwork should be better than a group not using teamwork, but the second group still deserves a fighting chance.

WoW has shown that many MMO-players, despite playing an MMO, like solo play.

[Timantium]

PS: If I put in my signature, "I DO NOT SUPPORT MOSSIE FARMING INFANTRY WITH THE DEGREE OF EASE WHICH OCCURS NOW", will people stop assuming I support the current mossie's abilities?

Not likely, or they might until you kill them with a mossie for the first time in PS:N.

I play for team tactics. My outfit is mostly gone, a few holdouts splintered into other outfits in an attempt to secure a beta key. We were small, but well organized and we could turn the tide of a battle where larger outfits who zerged all day did just that (zerged all day).

I think the broad specialization of different certs doesn't necessarily make you a "one-man army," it just makes you a versatile soldier instead of a specialist. I don't like flying, so I don't cert planes. I like driving ground vehicles so I have my mag cert for when I have a good gunner, AMS for when my empire needs me to drive an AMS and transport for when I actually have an organized squad. I am a high enough BR that I can do this while keeping a good loadout for attacking/defending bases (free Rexo, HA/AV, Adv. Med, CE). This does not make me a one-man army - it means I am proficient in a lot of areas, but not really specialized in any.

One-man army arguments could be limited by reducing inventory space and adding armor restrictions for drivers. Personally, I want to limit armor restrictions for a driver/pilot before I change inventory space. I am not sure if you can fly in Rexo now, but you can only drive a few vehicles (ATV, buggys) in it.

One man army arguments could also be limited by further changing certs to split some categories, like requiring someone to cert HA before they can cert AV or vice versa. Currently, you need MA to cert some of them anyway. I am not really supportive of making people cert tons of things they wont use to try and control how many things they can cert in total.

The easiest way they can prevent this problem is not raising the BR cap too high. Leave us enough certs to fill certain roles. By max rank, everyone should be able to cert into at least one specialized combat role (HA/AV/SA/Sniper - Agile/REXO/Cloak), at least one ground vehicle or an air cert and one support or MAX cert tree.

This means a player would be able to fill certs like so:

one weapon with REXO or Cloaker, two weapons certs with Agile
one ground with one air, two ground or two air
lvl 1 in MED/ENG/HACK, lvl 2 in one of those areas and lvl 1 in another area, lvl 3 in one area or MAX certs.


This could of course be tweaked to allow people not to cert a vehicle at all if they don't want to and would rather put those points into extra weapons or support certs. I just can't see a system that would deny players at max rank the ability to move around with a vehicle, use at least one advanced weapon and armor set and fill a support role.

If we are supposed to only fill one role like the instanced FPS out there that they play on consoles it won't work. Planetside is not instanced. Some days I like to drive, some days I want to grunt, some days I want to support. If I am forced to only do one I will get tired of the role and quit.

[Bags]

Not likely, or they might until you kill them with a mossie for the first time in PS:N.
I'm absolutely horrible with mossies; I can't get the sensitivity right. If you die to me in a mossie there is something very, very wrong.

I think the broad specialization of different certs doesn't necessarily make you a "one-man army," it just makes you a versatile soldier instead of a specialist. I don't like flying, so I don't cert planes. I like driving ground vehicles so I have my mag cert for when I have a good gunner, AMS for when my empire needs me to drive an AMS and transport for when I actually have an organized squad. I am a high enough BR that I can do this while keeping a good loadout for attacking/defending bases (free Rexo, HA/AV, Adv. Med, CE). This does not make me a one-man army - it means I am proficient in a lot of areas, but not really specialized in any.

With BR20 you could get the full grunt load out and a mossie. That's not a very broad specialization (IF THEY REMOVE MOSSIE'S AMAZING FARMING POWAS)

One-man army arguments could be limited by reducing inventory space and adding armor restrictions for drivers. Personally, I want to limit armor restrictions for a driver/pilot before I change inventory space. I am not sure if you can fly in Rexo now, but you can only drive a few vehicles (ATV, buggys) in it.

This is moot as you're already limited to agile in most vehicles

One man army arguments could also be limited by further changing certs to split some categories, like requiring someone to cert HA before they can cert AV or vice versa. Currently, you need MA to cert some of them anyway. I am not really supportive of making people cert tons of things they wont use to try and control how many things they can cert in total.

There's no need as you cannot be a one man army with BR20 / BR25 cert limits.

The easiest way they can prevent this problem is not raising the BR cap too high. Leave us enough certs to fill certain roles. By max rank, everyone should be able to cert into at least one specialized combat role (HA/AV/SA/Sniper - Agile/REXO/Cloak), at least one ground vehicle or an air cert and one support or MAX cert tree.

So you agree with me then.


If we are supposed to only fill one role like the instanced FPS out there that they play on consoles it won't work. Planetside is not instanced. Some days I like to drive, some days I want to grunt, some days I want to support. If I am forced to only do one I will get tired of the role and quit.

red

[Hamma]

:lol:

You give yourself far to much credit Bags, I did not make this thread for you.

[brinkdadrink]

I want planetside to be very team oriented. Im not saying so much that you cant get around without a teammate but keep in mind that is what its going to be like anyway when you start with 6 certs. I think it isnt right that you can fly and do damage to jump out of a vehicle going full speed with full health and HA, AV. A really easy fix for both sides i think would be:

Allow what they do now but if you bail then all 3x9 weapons are gone. If you get in a car with a full back pack are you really going to drive with it on. Same with ground vehicles too excluding open top such as ATV. This way if you land and fight you "have time to grab your big guns" while if you hop out you dont.

[Bags]

:lol:

You give yourself far to much credit Bags, I did not make this thread for you.

I haven't seen anyone on this forum share my opinions on anything related to single-play.

[Bags]

I want planetside to be very team oriented. Im not saying so much that you cant get around without a teammate but keep in mind that is what its going to be like anyway when you start with 6 certs. I think it isnt right that you can fly and do damage to jump out of a vehicle going full speed with full health and HA, AV. A really easy fix for both sides i think would be:

Allow what they do now but if you bail then all 3x9 weapons are gone. If you get in a car with a full back pack are you really going to drive with it on. Same with ground vehicles too excluding open top such as ATV. This way if you land and fight you "have time to grab your big guns" while if you hop out you dont.

Or they could just remove the mossie's ability TO FARM INFANTRY instead of making anyone who flies a plane a free kill for a suppressor. (however, if they force me to only be able to carry a sweeper I'm still going to be able to kill 70%+ of this game's population in a 1v1)

It's a scout / transport plane. It's not meant to farm infantry. If they remove its ability to farm infantry with such ease, and make it a proper scout plane, I see no reason why someone in agile shouldn't be able to carry HA; they're a free kill to anyone on the ground with a sweeper or heavy assault. (assuming no horrible net code)

[Hamma]

I haven't seen anyone on this forum share my opinions on anything related to single-play.

Well I am not surprised that you don't read other peoples posts ;)

[Raymac]

I'm all against 1 man armies. I think at BR20, you had enough certs to be versatile enough.

Having said that, and I don't want to get too far off point, but fuck yeah mossies should be able to kill infantry. Hell, any vehicle with a gun should be able to kill infantry. You can take out a Rexo with a gauss almost as fast as a mossie, so I don't see a big problem.

People really seem to hate getting killed by aircraft, but there is a real simple solution... have AA. If you don't have AA, then expect to get killed from the air, just like if you don't have AV, expect those tanks to roll over you. It's really that simple. With 1 or 2 skyguards and/or AA maxes, you can deny a large area to aircraft. You won't nessessarily kill them, but you will chase them away and keep them away. Unless you are a killwhore, that should be good enough.

No matter what, there's always going to be a percentage of people farming kills in 1 way or another. Planetside is an fps, right?

[Timantium]

I haven't seen anyone on this forum share my opinions on anything related to single-play.

You just quoted me and said "so you agree with me."

Yes, I agree - people should be able to have enough points to cert weapons and transport at the same time. That does not make them a one man army.

A one man army would be someone who could fly planes, drive tanks, shoot AV and HA weapons with black ops stats while they were cloaked, hacking 2 bases and filling a NTU silo.

[Bags]

Well I am not surprised that you don't read other peoples posts ;)

You try so hard to get a rise out of me, yet I'm the troll. Mmk.

@ titanium: It's called hyperbole.

Let's get on the same page people:

Does one man army mean
"A one man army would be someone who could fly planes, drive tanks, shoot AV and HA weapons with black ops stats while they were cloaked, hacking 2 bases and filling a NTU silo. "
or
"A grunt who kills me with heavy assault after bailing out of an aircraft"

I see both referred to as one man armies.

[Timantium]

I smell a poll question!!!

[Bags]

We could do a phone survey!

[Tikuto]

Sentient Trees.

[Raymac]

Does one man army mean
"A one man army would be someone who could fly planes, drive tanks, shoot AV and HA weapons with black ops stats while they were cloaked, hacking 2 bases and filling a NTU silo. "
or
"A grunt who kills me with heavy assault after bailing out of an aircraft"

I see both referred to as one man armies.

I'm a big fan of flying, but I'm all for having a special Flight suit or something so I can't carry HA, or even MA (since my gauss is so awesome). But look, if I have my plane, and I need to get from point A to point B, I'm going to use it to get there. I'm not going to cert it just as a transport, but if I have it, I'll use it.

[Baneblade]

Pilots should be limited to Standard Armor and Standard needs the rifle slot reduced to the size of the gluegun/MA/SA weapons. Let all the other Driver Armor limits stay the same. Tank Drivers need Agile just to carry enough glue lol.

[Manitou]

This could all be settled if we identify the primary use of the aircraft in question and stick with that definition.



Galaxy - transport of troops to battle (or whatever).



Mosquito - Combat air patrol (CAP)


If we limit the use of these particular aircraft to those appropriate roles, then we possibly settle the issue. In other words, you can bail from a Galaxy to drop as airborne troops. You cannot bail from a Mosquito with gear equal to a troop dropping from a Galaxy. Period.

[Bags]

Well, you're all set in your opinions and I'm not going to be able to change them. (not saying this is a bad thing!) Guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Good day.

[Robert089]

I'm a big fan of flying, but I'm all for having a special Flight suit or something so I can't carry HA, or even MA (since my gauss is so awesome). But look, if I have my plane, and I need to get from point A to point B, I'm going to use it to get there. I'm not going to cert it just as a transport, but if I have it, I'll use it.

No let pilots keep MA, I for one do not want them to be able to use HA / AV. Let them drop if they want but they will have to find a useable equipment terminal to suit up in rexo before they can use their HA. This way it allows fast response outfits to remain but transport vehicles will actually be used.

[brinkdadrink]

It's a scout / transport plane. It's not meant to farm infantry. If they remove its ability to farm infantry with such ease, and make it a proper scout plane, I see no reason why someone in agile shouldn't be able to carry HA(assuming no horrible net code)

Here is where i differ with you and some or many others. The Mos is a scout plane with low armor but it is not a transport plane. It is being used as a transport plane but i feel it should be changed so that aspect of the Mos is not used. They have a 22mm gun like any other vehicle including the lightning and should be fine killing infantry and being murdered by AA. I understand getting across a continent is great with the Mos when you dont have another ride But why cant you do that without being able to jump out at a speed of 150. I dont mind being able to cert many different things but i do mind being able to go into battle with all those things. If your a grunt load up grunt, Pilot load up pilot, driver load driver. Your a one man army if your an assult pilot to a grunt who can heal himself without changing up your loadout. That to me is a one man army. Cert everything just make it so you cant take it all into the field. A tank driver cant jump out of his vehicle till it come to a stop so why should a plane be able to do it.

Summary:
1) Cert what you want but dont take it all out at once
2) Change it so you have to go a certain speed to bail. This is for everything: ATV, tanks, mos (all vehicles you get the idea). If you bail you are "unable to grab your big guns" so either pistol or MA whatever testing sees as best.

[Raymac]

No let pilots keep MA, I for one do not want them to be able to use HA / AV. Let them drop if they want but they will have to find a useable equipment terminal to suit up in rexo before they can use their HA. This way it allows fast response outfits to remain but transport vehicles will actually be used.

The only reason I say no MA, is because I can really go toe to toe with HA most of the time. I'm not trying to be a Bags and toot my own horn here ( ;) ) but just last night I was 1 on 1 against an MCG in a tower and came out on top. It doesn't happen all the time, but it happens enough and I know I'm not the only one. If I'm in a CQB situation, HA should pwn me as a pilot.

Ideally, what I'd like to see is like a sub machinegun type weapon for pilots. Something that can give you some defense, but on 1v1, you'll be outmatched.

[brinkdadrink]

Not saying do away with Battle ranks just saying higher battle ranks shouldnt allow you to become a one man army which is what the game was about anyway.

[Hamma]

This could all be settled if we identify the primary use of the aircraft in question and stick with that definition.



Galaxy - transport of troops to battle (or whatever).



Mosquito - Combat air patrol (CAP)


If we limit the use of these particular aircraft to those appropriate roles, then we possibly settle the issue. In other words, you can bail from a Galaxy to drop as airborne troops. You cannot bail from a Mosquito with gear equal to a troop dropping from a Galaxy. Period.
Interesting thoughts.

Although I do find it strange all the folks complaining about how it kills infantry to fast. I mean, I've killed with it and been killed by it before but I've never thought of that aspect as a "Problem" where I do think that all of the hot dropping from it is indeed a problem.

[Raymac]

Interesting thoughts.

Although I do find it strange all the folks complaining about how it kills infantry to fast. I mean, I've killed with it and been killed by it before but I've never thought of that aspect as a "Problem" where I do think that all of the hot dropping from it is indeed a problem.

I agree with ya here. What I think they should do is greatly increase the timers for vehicles, or at least aircraft. It seems the only time I ever see my timer on my Reaver is when I get camped on the V-pad. If the timers are alot longer, then they won't be as disposable.

[Timantium]

A tank driver cant jump out of his vehicle till it come to a stop so why should a plane be able to do it.



Because hopefully a plane that is fully stopped in PS:N is on the ground. Planes that stop in the air should crash. Pilots who jump out should have to float down with a giant parachute or take fall damage. They already incorporate fall dmg with some things, why not bailing pilots/gunners.

[MooK]

I'm all against 1 man armies. I think at BR20, you had enough certs to be versatile enough.


I'm going to expand upon this. Limiting the number of certifications a character can achieve improves teamplay. By requiring individuals to work together, from an assortment of different playstyles, you get a much better gaming experience. If everything stays remotely the same, armies who work together and create bonds will obviously overcome those that do not. MMO means massive multiplayer online. In terms of historical example, massivity and multiplayer gameplay is what planetside had in it's first two years. Keep those core principles.

Do not reduce the cost of certifications over time, unless you replace those certifications with new content. Do not let characters increase themselves past BR20/CR5. Instead, make use of their extra experience points to put it towards something that improves sociability, such as non-gameplay modifying redemptions (skins, models, decals, etc.) Anything that can be done to keep the core foundation intact whilst increasing teamplay and sociability will make this game better.

If they give this game solo play, I don't think I'll be sitting around for too long. Reclusive behavior in an MMO will destroy it's community.

[Miir]

I agree 100%... players should not be OMA's.

People should have to commit to play a certain roll. (pilot air/ground, medic, sniper, engineer, ninja, advance weapons etc). A career class of sorts.

You should be able to change it like the current system of re-certing with a cool down period.

But nothing more than that.

[brinkdadrink]

What if instead of falling straight down when you hot drop they fall in an arc depending on the speed they were going when they drop. The damage done would be depending on how fast they are falling forward.

ex/ mos at low altitude going extremely fast will die when he hits because lots of forward motion

A galaxy that stops over a base drops every does no damage because no forward motion.

a mos going kinda slow hops out at high altitude would be hurt very little or not at all because his forward motion would slow as he fell.

This would make it harder to aim a hot drop and slow down vehicles so if your doing a strafing run in a mos and get shot to bail you will die anyway. If your hovering and you bail you wont die but since your hovering your mos will die very quickly and wont be able to really kill many as long as there is AA.

This solves i few problems i think. Thoughts?

[Raymac]

Because hopefully a plane that is fully stopped in PS:N is on the ground. Planes that stop in the air should crash.

No no no. Let the planes act like helicopters. I don't want to need a runway just to put my bird down for some quick repairs.

[Timantium]

No no no. Let the planes act like helicopters. I don't want to need a runway just to put my bird down for some quick repairs.

Ok, so establish a landing or takeoff cycle that the plane can enter into. Fixed.

[Raymac]

Ok, so establish a landing or takeoff cycle that the plane can enter into. Fixed.

Nope. Hover should stay. If AA catches you hovering, you are dead. It's "fixed" as it stands right now.

[Timantium]

Ray, this is not really the thread to argue hover aircraft or not hover aircraft so I'm not going to push it, we simply disagree. I was simply answering the question about drivers not being able to bail from tanks until they stop when people do it from planes all the time. I personally want the pilot parachute - a big purple one for me.

One man army and how to reduce/eliminate this was the topic in case you are wondering.

[Raymac]

One man army and how to reduce/eliminate this was the topic in case you are wondering.

Yeah, Timmy. I get it. You'll notice that threads here tend to go off on tangents. I try not to do it, but shit happens.

[Aractain]

I agree with the one man army stuff being a big issue.

There is two extreams on one side you have everyone is 100% effective at everything and on the other we need a Tank MAX and some healers to take down the enemy leader...

Solo players should have fun, all the time. They, of course, will die a lot but the game play (even when they die) has to be fun. Now when they link up with teamwork they should have MORE fun. That means it has to be simple and effective. (so: sharing of XP, XP while dead, significant base capture rewards, maybe things like more XP when different weapon types hit the same target etc).

When I say teamwork I mean everything from shooting the same target as some other random person on your faction to being in a coordinated squad running multiplue vehicles with full voice comms.

[EVILPIG]

Limiting what players can do isn't going to force good teamwork. Bottom line is, it doesn't matter what players can or cannot do, good teamwork is still just that. Either it is there, or it isn't.

Limiting certs isn't necessarily the answer either. It doesn't matter if you can fly or drive every vehicle in the game, you can only do one at a time.

Rather than tightly limiting the number of things you can cert, they may want to consider how some of the equipment works. If ReXo had only 1 large weapon slot, and 1 rifle sized slot, you wouldn't see HA/HA or HA/AV. Another thing to consider would be removing the self application of med and engy tools.

Make some changes to the way things are balanced. Don't limit soldiers to roles that feel as restricted as classes. This is a video game. Let characters advance as far as they can go. Again, there is nothing wrong with eventually be able to learn it all as long as all of those things are balanced properly.

[Raymac]

Make some changes to the way things are balanced. Don't limit soldiers to roles that feel as restricted as classes. This is a video game. Let characters advance as far as they can go. Again, there is nothing wrong with eventually be able to learn it all as long as all of those things are balanced properly.

I disagree with you to a point. I think the current system where you can cert in anything is perfect, but just limit how much you can cert in at any given time like the way it was at BR20. So, you want to do something else, you can recert. Maybe instead of just getting back a cert every 24 hours, you can get a full cert wipe.

I just don't like the idea of being able to have everything certed at the same time. Limiting it gives more value to the people that choose the support roles.

[Sirisian]

Because hopefully a plane that is fully stopped in PS:N is on the ground. Planes that stop in the air should crash. Pilots who jump out should have to float down with a giant parachute or take fall damage. They already incorporate fall dmg with some things, why not bailing pilots/gunners.
No no no. Let the planes act like helicopters. I don't want to need a runway just to put my bird down for some quick repairs.
Ok, so establish a landing or takeoff cycle that the plane can enter into. Fixed.
Nope. Hover should stay. If AA catches you hovering, you are dead. It's "fixed" as it stands right now.
This was solved in another thread. (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showpost.php?p=561776&postcount=15)

Also it is hard to quote properly in this forum software. :huh:

[Sirisian]

Okay regarding the topic at hand I agree with allowing HA and rexo in vehicles. I flew a liberator and I always forgot I was wearing rexo when I was about to jump into my plane. I never really used mossy or reavers in the game, but I feel it's just another strategy to getting to the battle and not a one man army thing.

Also not being able to carry a sniper rifle in a plane is kind of lame. Sometimes getting to the top of a Searhus to snipe into the battle from the volcanic ridge was not an easy task with a ground vehicle.

Also landing on top of a base or tower to fight from the top was a valid strategy in the game that shouldn't be taken away. Would I need to wear agile armor in my galaxy? I've always felt a galaxy pilot should be able to wear rexo.

[Traak]

Sure, the assault team full of snipers will have a great KD ratio.

And, in the end, that is what most who play PS are about. Padding their kill stats.

I would like to see it where the XP AND the kills were nearly impossible to get without at least two people, preferably more, working together.

If people want to killwhore, let them go play UT, or whatever else. We don't NEED another selfish, egocentric, one-man army-focused game. We are already drowning in those and the type that plays them, not only in the gaming world, but the same mentality in the real world.

I have found that the ratio of AMS drivers to killwhores hovers around 50:1. If we have lock on a cont, we will have about five AMSes, max, at a base. If only a few more would drive one and park it on standby somewhere, base assaults would go more smoothly.

As it is, the killwhores are the ones shrilling in Contalls that "We need AMSes OMGzzzzz" but you never see them driving one. I know you can't make people quit being selfish prima donnas in the gaming world any more than you can in the real world, regrettably, but in the gaming world it is easier to construct things so that they have teamwork rammed down their throats, or will just fail to score that well, and that is why PS is more appealing than killwhore-only games.

[Traak]

Okay regarding the topic at hand I agree with allowing HA and rexo in vehicles. I flew a liberator and I always forgot I was wearing rexo when I was about to jump into my plane. I never really used mossy or reavers in the game, but I feel it's just another strategy to getting to the battle and not a one man army thing.

But, that is the actual point, being able to jump in a plane loaded to the gills with weapons and armor IS a one-man-army thing.

Also not being able to carry a sniper rifle in a plane is kind of lame. Sometimes getting to the top of a Searhus to snipe into the battle from the volcanic ridge was not an easy task with a ground vehicle.

Yes, if you think it was hard in a smaller ground vehicle, try it in an AMS. Maybe I should be able to fly an AMS anywhere in the entire map and deploy it, but, I mean, it should be cloaked, invisible, not appear on radar, and be deployed while in mid-air, because it is SO hard to drive it up where I can "support whore."

Nah.

Also landing on top of a base or tower to fight from the top was a valid strategy in the game that shouldn't be taken away.

Sure. As long as you can only carry a pistol, and fly a slow, very visible, slow-accelerating plane that is unarmed and has no radar augmentation, and you can't bail unless it is full armor. But, being able to fly a fast, radar-augmenting plane that can't be detected by automatic wall turrets that is armed, faster than anything in the game, and can be almost dead before you bail, with HA gear, from it, is STUPIDLY overpowered.

[Sirisian]

...
http://assaultwars.com/pictures/moderate.png
There I think I summed up Traak's right viewpoint. I know this is radical, but lets go a little more toward moderate.

[DviddLeff]

Vehicle crew suit (old standard) inventory:
https://sites.google.com/site/planetsideupgradeproject/_/rsrc/1262431412136/phase-2/infantry-armour-overhaul/pilot%20agile%20nventory.jpg

Shown with a (poor) representation of a new VS SMG as in my upgrade project the MA rifles would be extended to 3x9 size.

[Peacemaker]

I keep seeing talk of how the "Farming" mossie needs a nerf. Im god damn serious, are you guys even Subscribed? As it stands now, a Mossie against infantry means you need to be close. Close enough that and AV, AA, Cerberus, or AP Ammo will mess you up. The time to kill was reduced, and so was the COF which was MASSIVELY nerfed. The thing used to be a laser beam, now its got enough of a bloom that killing a rexo before he gets to cover is not an easy task.

[Raymac]

I keep seeing talk of how the "Farming" mossie needs a nerf. Im god damn serious, are you guys even Subscribed? As it stands now, a Mossie against infantry means you need to be close. Close enough that and AV, AA, Cerberus, or AP Ammo will mess you up. The time to kill was reduced, and so was the COF which was MASSIVELY nerfed. The thing used to be a laser beam, now its got enough of a bloom that killing a rexo before he gets to cover is not an easy task.

I'm with you, brother. I don't know if people realize just how effective AA is. Sure you don't always get kills with AA, but you at least make any aircraft run home to momma. (But we gotta be careful about getting off on tangents it seems)

[BicOfMarkov]

Summary:
1) Cert what you want but dont take it all out at once
2) Change it so you have to go a certain speed to bail. This is for everything: ATV, tanks, mos (all vehicles you get the idea). If you bail you are "unable to grab your big guns" so either pistol or MA whatever testing sees as best.

How about this kind of compromise...

When you hop into a Vehicle or a Bird with anything other than a Agile ( or whatever the flight suit pajamas is ) your kit is swapped out for the default agile loadout and "stored". Land/stop, you can go to a terminal on the vehicle and swap back into the gear. Bail on a bird and the gear is dropped in a pod you have to run to to swap back into.

[CutterJohn]

I keep seeing talk of how the "Farming" mossie needs a nerf. Im god damn serious, are you guys even Subscribed? As it stands now, a Mossie against infantry means you need to be close. Close enough that and AV, AA, Cerberus, or AP Ammo will mess you up. The time to kill was reduced, and so was the COF which was MASSIVELY nerfed. The thing used to be a laser beam, now its got enough of a bloom that killing a rexo before he gets to cover is not an easy task.

Another side effect.

If mossies, and to a lesser extent reavers, were not such excellent troop transports that people would cert them even if they were weaponless, there would not be nearly as many. The weapons likely wouldn't have needed to be nerfed, and AA not so OP against them.

[Kirotan]

I think pilots should have flight suits. Air superiority is an IMMENSE advantage, and there has to be a similarly significant drawback for just how effective they are. The worst offenses to this IMO is getting shot down by AA; the reward for the MAX that just took out your AirCav is a decimator to the face. Obviously right now my heart bleeds for the disadvantage AirCav/HA/AV users have in this situation; you just used up your deci to kill the MAX that rightly shot you down, and your limited inventory space means you couldn't carry much else. I'm sure the MAX weeps for you too.

It is simply not balanced to simultaneously have the fastest moving attack vehicles and the ability to carry some of the best infantry weapons in the game at the same time.

This isn't some sort of AirCav hate from me either; since I resubbed a few weeks ago, I've played about 60 hours, and I was sitting in a reaver for 50 of them.

[Vancha]

Another thing to consider would be removing the self application of med and engy tools.
This. This here is the big one. It wasn't being able to carry HA+AV that made people one man armies, or being able to hot drop...It was the fact they could sustain themselves. I'm not sure whether self-healing should be limited or removed in regards to med+engy applicators, but it's doing that that would stop people being able to camp stairwells and hallways nigh-indefinitely while they got fed with a string of troops to devour.

Removing self-healing would also make sniping more about not being seen, rather than simply camping a ledge and ducking down to heal when you got shot.

Of course, that's not to say self-healing should be removed entirely. I imagine the health regeneration implant might have been somewhat more popular had med+engy-ing oneself not been so overpowered.

While it would take getting used to, I would definitely like to see more specializations (ie you can only pick on support tree, or vehicle set, etc).
The reason certs are so popular is because of the ability to mix'n'match, rather than being stuck in agile with a suppressor for basefights because you picked the "vehicle" tree. I'd be vehemently opposed to any "class" system.

Having said that, I think it's possible we could benefit from more cert structuring, such as certs that require other certs to be taken first, or having X cert become unavailable if you pick Y cert etc. (X and Y possibly being medical and engineering?)

[CutterJohn]

Med and engy became standard kit because it was very annoying finding someone to heal you, and nobody wanted to heal because that means running around with an applicator out, not shooting enemies.

I'd support the removal, so long as engies/medics can place healing gadgets that players can go to in order to get stitched up. Uses up an ACE, and has the approximate shape, size, and hitpoints as the sensors.

[Kirotan]

Med and engy became standard kit because it was very annoying finding someone to heal you, and nobody wanted to heal because that means running around with an applicator out, not shooting enemies.

I'd support the removal, so long as engies/medics can place healing gadgets that players can go to in order to get stitched up.

BEP for support action would solve this problem. But I agree with having deployable medical/armor stations instead of hand held devices; it requires at least half a brain to place it somewhere safe, and your team has to consider defending it to ensure survival/success.

[Vancha]

http://www.1cmm.net/ps/cert/

I just played around with this old gem. It doesn't need to be said that less cert points means people are restricted to less roles, but the cert calc shows how drastic a difference a single cert point can make.

Imagine we're back when BR20 was cap and ATV cost 2 certs. If someone took the one-man-army set-up of med+engy+rexo+HA+AV+Mossie, they'd have 2 certs to play with. They get to choose between CE, infiltration, AA MAX and most of the vehicles...Not a bad deal. Take away a single cert point though and that's it, they're stuck having to play their one-man-army until they get to recert.

Now bump the cap up to BR25 with an extra 3 certs to play with, and on top of being a one-man-army they get to fill any additional career they like. They can be a sniper, or an infil with CE, or even trade in their mossie for a BFR. The AI/AV MAXs, air support and adv hack are no longer off limits to them either.

With certs costs as they were when BR20 was king, it seems 22 cert points would have been the ideal (if not 20, even). It was that rise to BR25 with 26 certs to play with that really made things ridiculous. I imagine a similar thing will be applicable to PSN, so it'll be interesting to see how much they allow us to play with at once.

[Aractain]

What if HA or AV was a choice? Basically the only one large weapon slot idea.

Things like the rocklet or thumper are "half way" choices so HA+Rocklet or MA+AV would be common. Would this just result in the deci swapping style gameplay? Getting rid of swapping out weapons quickly is pretty obvious but is that enough?

I think limiting Med and Engy is just going to be very annoying. You can pretty much be asured that there would be points where nobody is healing. Not to mention forceing people into feeling like they need to heal because they have med is bad game design.

Certainly they could make self healing less effective like only a third or a quater of the speed so a real medical support troop is desired rather than required.

(oh yeah and it does something really cool with teamplay, if there are some people in a base healing up its MORE effective to heal EACH OHER than themselves... inncentivised teamwork - exactly what I want from PSN)

[Bags]

What if HA or AV was a choice? Basically the only one large weapon slot idea.

Things like the rocklet or thumper are "half way" choices so HA+Rocklet or MA+AV would be common. Would this just result in the deci swapping style gameplay? Getting rid of swapping out weapons quickly is pretty obvious but is that enough?



Better question: Why is this needed? What does this add to the game? (Besides needing 2 players to kill a max)

If I'm carrying HA and go against a max, it's going to be a pretty binary fight. Not much skill in that.

[CutterJohn]

If I'm carrying HA and go against a max, it's going to be a pretty binary fight. Not much skill in that.

Works both ways. If you're in a max, and go against a rexo with AV, its going to be a pretty binary fight too. They'll just pop out of the corners and smoke you with decis.

Don't know if I agree with it, but I see the point. It means one dude doesn't carry the best weapons for any situation. You can be better at killing infantry, but be weaker vs maxs, or better at killing maxs, and weaker vs infantry.

[Vancha]

What if HA or AV was a choice? Basically the only one large weapon slot idea.

Things like the rocklet or thumper are "half way" choices so HA+Rocklet or MA+AV would be common. Would this just result in the deci swapping style gameplay? Getting rid of swapping out weapons quickly is pretty obvious but is that enough?
I think the HA+AV thing can be fixed with the cert limitations. What if weapons (6x3/9x3) couldn't be held in the inventory, so you could only hold as many "long" weapons as you had weapon slots? Agile for free with 1 9x3 slot, 2 certs for an armour in between agile and rexo with 1 9x3 slot and 1 6x3 slot, and another 2 certs with the previous armour as a requirement for rexo with 2 9x3 slots.

Obviously it'd need to be adjusted for whatever things are like in PSN, but by raising the cost of rexo you make the cost of getting HA and AV very high, discouraging people from doing so without making it impossible. Meanwhile you have a middle option with armour, inventory and weapon slots bridging the gap between agile and rexo that has a far more forgiving cert cost but restricts your weapon choices...

I think limiting Med and Engy is just going to be very annoying. You can pretty much be asured that there would be points where nobody is healing. Not to mention forceing people into feeling like they need to heal because they have med is bad game design.
You make it sound like medical and engy is the only way to heal. Finally regeneration/second wind implants and medical terminals wouldn't be unused, not to mention the possible deployables that have already been mentioned.

Sure, it might be annoying for a while for those of us who are used to the convenience of being able to keep ourselves alive, but that's only because we've been spoilt.

[Bags]

I think the HA+AV thing can be fixed with the cert limitations. What if weapons (6x3/9x3) couldn't be held in the inventory, so you could only hold as many "long" weapons as you had weapon slots? Agile for free with 1 9x3 slot, 2 certs for an armour in between agile and rexo with 1 9x3 slot and 1 6x3 slot, and another 2 certs with the previous armour as a requirement for rexo with 2 9x3 slots..

I ask again: what does this add besides a max buff?

Works both ways. If you're in a max, and go against a rexo with AV, its going to be a pretty binary fight too. They'll just pop out of the corners and smoke you with decis.

Don't know if I agree with it, but I see the point. It means one dude isn't viable at fending off all threats. You can be better at killing infantry, but be weaker vs maxs, or better at killing maxs, and weaker vs infantry.

If you can't get at least one kill as a max you're doing it wrong. I can kill the best players with ease in a max. You're just bad if you don't retreat when they start doing that. There's no other way to put it, sorry. Don't forget that the ONLY time this can occur is in a 1v1... which doesn't happen very often in planetside. Try to do that with decis if the max has some buddies and see what happens. This honestly sounds like a buff to poor play and penalizing good players.

I realize the same goes for the infantry; they have teammates. But what if no one has AV? It's back to being a fairly binary fight. In a completely organized situation, where both teams are trying their hardest to win, it might work. However, this is unlikely to happen in a VIDEO GAME, where most people want to have fun.

I went like 12 / 0 on Thursday in a tower as a pounder... if anything indoor AV needs a buff.

I guess I really don't see the point of limiting infantry certed to be effective indoors' effectiveness. If you must nerf the grunt loadout, maybe make DECI a different cert than ESAV? Lump ESAV in with that weird new rocket maybe, name it "Outdoor Anti-vehicle Cert" or something. That way a REXO/HA/DECI/MED/ENG grunt is only good indoors?

[CutterJohn]

But what if no one has AV? It's back to being a fairly binary fight.

What if you roll tanks with no AA, and a flight of reavers comes? I guess all tanks should have the best AA and the best AV so they are never caught in a situation they can't handle, right?

What you do is die, respawn, and bring more diversified gear next time so you aren't caught with your pants down.

I agree though that decis should be in a different cert than esav. Or at least a deci-light that is a bit smaller and 4 or 5 shots maxs, and is available for MA + 1 more cert.

I also want grunts to have a dedicated AV grenade that sticks to and blows up MAXs and vehicles.

[Vancha]

I ask again: what does this add besides a max buff?
It creates roles. Specializations. I guess you could call it an appreciation buff for AV. Besides, it's not like without AV we have no ways to take down a MAX...Rocklet, AP ammo, CE, AV MAXs (sure, AP ammo/lasher might suck against MAXs in planetside, but that's not the game we're talking about.)

If you can't get at least one kill as a max you're doing it wrong. I can kill the best players with ease in a max. You're just bad if you don't retreat when they start doing that. There's no other way to put it, sorry.

I went like 12 / 0 on Thursday in a tower as a pounder... if anything indoor AV needs a buff.
Woah woah woah, you've killed someone in a MAX in PSN?

Lets not forget which game we're talking about. Who knows, maybe MAXs'll be so powerful or resilient that having the majority of people with AV will be needed, but from a speculative gameplay point of view, having people specialize into good AI or good AV seems preferable over having both (and gives more reason for things like the rocklet and sweeper to exist).

[Bags]

What if you roll tanks with no AA, and a flight of reavers comes? I guess all tanks should have the best AA and the best AV so they are never caught in a situation they can't handle, right?

What you do is die, respawn, and bring more diversified gear next time so you aren't caught with your pants down.

But indoor fighting isn't the same as outdoor fighting. Apples and oranges, my friend.

edit: I'm done with this thread since apparently you guys can argue balance for PSN, but I can't because I haven't played it. (even though you guys haven't either) What a joke.

Good day.

[CutterJohn]

But indoor fighting isn't the same as outdoor fighting. Apples and oranges, my friend.

There are fewer unit types, sure, but those units have much more diverse loadouts. I'm not saying I 100% agree with the idea of more specialization for infantry, but the idea has merits that could be discussed.

edit: I'm done with this thread since apparently you guys can argue balance for PSN, but I can't because I haven't played it. (even though you guys haven't either) What a joke.

Good day.

Did I say you couldn't? You can at least direct your ire towards a more specific target.

[Vancha]

Something doesn't necessarily need to be unbalanced to be bad gameplay. I don't think people are arguing so much that HA + AV was unbalanced, but it was too homogenous, boring and cookie-cutter. If people can get the best armour, best AI and best AV with enough certs left over to get what they like, what reason is there not to get them?

If you feel it would be to the benefit of PSN for people to be able to have the one-man-army setup persist, then argue that...but using the viability of MAXs in planetside doesn't seem to address the problem people have with it.

[Duddy]

Removing self-healing would also make sniping more about not being seen, rather than simply camping a ledge and ducking down to heal when you got shot.

I agree, but... the problem with this is that we have that huge glowing tracer. Not to mention in a situation where it is not one shot one kill people get all the chance they need to spot you.

So you don't really get a much of a chance to "hide", particularly since there is no real usable cover. Hence resorting to sitting in trees.

If they gave a way for snipers to remain hidden whilst doing nothing else I could fully agree. However with those concessions in mind removing the ability to heal/rep one-self up would make sniping even more of a pain to attempt :P (arguments for other solo play etc aside)

[Vancha]

Right. Sniping would become about picking off damaged targets and moving after a shot or two to try and avoid retaliatory fire.

Then again, I said before that if implants exist in PSN something like regeneration would find more popularity from medical's self-healing inability/reduction, especially for people that might find themselves with plenty of stamina due to lots of sitting in one place. *cough*

Of course, we don't know yet what shape snipers in PSN might take either. Could be something closer to a Tau drone spotter than a bolt driver. :p

[CutterJohn]

I'd be ok with more useful implants so long as you could change them at any spawn tube. Never liked how they had to be changed.

[Vancha]

I think implants in general could be expanded upon greatly in PSN (eventually). My first thought was talent-treeish, but I can imagine how the mere suggestion of that would be taken around here...but certainly more implants, combination effects, empire specific implants, implants that require certain certs/implants to be taken first etc.

Alas, we digress.

[Rbstr]

Something doesn't necessarily need to be unbalanced to be bad gameplay. I don't think people are arguing so much that HA + AV was unbalanced, but it was too homogenous, boring and cookie-cutter.

That's exactly it. There's two main ways of "requiring" team play.
#1 - Making weapons less effective, so multiple weapons (and thus people) are required to take down a target.
#2 - Making weapons more effective, so may be only one weapon is needed. But having that weapon keeps you from being effective at something else.

#1's extreme is quite like PS through the times I played (and from what I' read here it holds true to today). The typical grunt is going to be rexo, HA, and AV. But tanks take lots of shots even with AV....so that's the way it's gotta be.

#2's extreme is a Class system like lots of shooters. The AV guy ain't got much of an AI weapon, but he lays a hurt on a tank.

With #1 you need numbers, because the right guns are everywhere.
with #2 you need composition, because not everyone can bring the right gun or your group is severely handicapped.

Now I certainly don't want classes, but like I've always said, more effective weapons and equipment with more usage limits is a more nuanced kind of game. It allows groups of people to be far more specialized.

[Baneblade]

I agree with ya here. What I think they should do is greatly increase the timers for vehicles, or at least aircraft. It seems the only time I ever see my timer on my Reaver is when I get camped on the V-pad. If the timers are alot longer, then they won't be as disposable.

If the timers were moved to start after you lose ownership of the one you pulled before, they might mean something.

Same thing for MAXes. Maybe then those Scatterbrains would wait for an adv med to come around.

[Baneblade]

I'm not in favor of completely removing the ability to self heal. BUT, increasing the cost of it would be fine. As it stands now the only people who ever have to reload their med app or BANK are MAX reppers, snipers, and Hold medics.

Make it 1:1 for hp and 1:2 for armor, when healing/repping yourself. That also means it will take significantly longer. Medkits become more than just a means to win in a stairwell, and implants based on survival become more integral.

Keep the current values for healing/repping other players tho.

If teamwork doesn't explode out of that change, nothing will make teamwork work.

[Rbstr]

I think giving health should certainly be preferable to healing yourself, but I'm not entirely sure how that should work.

One think I know how I'd change is the medikit. I always found popping a medikit in the middle of a firefight for instant health a kind of silly thing. I've got two suggestions:

- Make it a stimulant - It doesn't actually get rid of damage, it provides a temporary health boost. When it wears off all of the damage you took is still there. So if you don't get treatment while it's wearing off you die anyway...even if you won the battle.

-Make it heal in a finite time. Like fallout's hard mode, instead of instant boost, it's a boost over 10 seconds.

I prefer the former, I think it's something that hasn't really been explored as a mechanic much in these kinds of games. It provided the same kind of thing as before but it no longer a long term solution to low health.

[DviddLeff]

Good idea about self healing/repairing taking longer... I think I will put that in the upgrade project.

[basti]

What scares me the most right now is that you, hamma, never start to understand that you need to moderate the forums. There are loads of duplicated threads, thread with completly stupid ideas that are just posted to troll people, etc. That stuff needs to be removed, or you end up having forumside two...

You got the chance to have these forums full of nice and productive discussions. Dont throw that away...

[Robert089]

What scares me the most right now is that you, hamma, never start to understand that you need to moderate the forums. There are loads of duplicated threads, thread with completly stupid ideas that are just posted to troll people, etc. That stuff needs to be removed, or you end up having forumside two...

You got the chance to have these forums full of nice and productive discussions. Dont throw that away...

/t hamma

[Sirisian]

What scares me the most right now is that you, hamma, never start to understand that you need to moderate the forums. There are loads of duplicated threads, thread with completly stupid ideas that are just posted to troll people, etc. That stuff needs to be removed, or you end up having forumside two...

You got the chance to have these forums full of nice and productive discussions. Dont throw that away...
Just so that people don't misunderstand you, I believe you should list these people you're referring to and link to their posts.

For all we know this comment could just be from someone who thinks everyone that doesn't share their opinion is wrong. :lol:

If you're referring to Bags and Traak he already knows.

[Ghryphen]

Report any threads you have a problem with and they will be looked into.

[Vancha]

If teamwork doesn't explode out of that change, nothing will make teamwork work.
Removing self-healing entirely might. :p

I suppose it depends entirely on how much healing people have available to them through medkits, implants and whatever else, along with how resilient you feel people should be. I'm thinking that people having shorter lifespans due to lack of self-healing might increase the flow of combat for the better, but perhaps it'd make combat end too quickly, which would only go to show how mandatory it was in the first place.

[Bags]

Just so that people don't misunderstand you, I believe you should list these people you're referring to and link to their posts.

For all we know this comment could just be from someone who thinks everyone that doesn't share their opinion is wrong. :lol:

If you're referring to Bags and Traak he already knows.

I haven't made a single thread. It's a sad day today, where everyone who has a different opinion than you apparently only has it to piss you off. Narcissistic much?

Sorry if my ideas are, "completely stupid", to you. It doesn't mean I'm trolling.

[Sirisian]

I haven't made a single thread. It's a sad day today, where everyone who has a different opinion than you apparently only has it to piss you off. Narcissistic much?

Sorry if my ideas are, "completely stupid", to you. It doesn't mean I'm trolling.
I didn't mean to offend you. I was actually trying to point out that it can be hard to tell if someone is trolling with their arguments for or against things. Unless you can't tell that a lot of your arguments come off as less of an argument and more of a troll?

I liked this one though :) If you're going to make an argument don't try to turn it into a slippery slope or something. Argue that topic at hand.
Oh let's make bullets be affected by wind too! And our characters can have random heart attacks! And let's eat food.

[Bags]

That was more sarcastically making fun of the amount of realism they wanted to add. That's not trolling. And no, my arguments come off a lot less trollish than a lot of other people's.

I see a lot of people simply discredit my ideas because, "you play TR", "lol buff tr more n00b" etc. "We don't know what PSN will be like thus you can't argue that" <-- Sorry? If I can't argue anything because we haven't played PSN, then why does this forum currently exist? People generally look for a way to attack me rather than my ideas. I generally attack ideas.

[Kirotan]

What scares me the most right now is that you, hamma, never start to understand that you need to moderate the forums. There are loads of duplicated threads, thread with completly stupid ideas that are just posted to troll people, etc. That stuff needs to be removed, or you end up having forumside two...

You got the chance to have these forums full of nice and productive discussions. Dont throw that away...

u mad


We can't have a productive discussion based on 4 screenshots. These are all speculative posts. I used to think people made stupid posts on here, but we simply don't have comprehensive details from their point of view to understand why they think it's a good change.

For instance, lets say I say "Nerf HA." Everyone else thinks it's a crazy idea, but since I haven't expounded on my vision of PS:N, it makes sense to me. After all, in my mind I've gone through the chain reaction of "HA is nerfed in my perception, so naturally this will change the way AV, AirCav, Tanks, CE, MA and SA works in order to fit a game I think is balanced in regards to the HA change."

So you can join the speculation, or you can come back when we have more concrete details and something tangible to discuss. :)

[Hamma]

What scares me the most right now is that you, hamma, never start to understand that you need to moderate the forums. There are loads of duplicated threads, thread with completly stupid ideas that are just posted to troll people, etc. That stuff needs to be removed, or you end up having forumside two...

You got the chance to have these forums full of nice and productive discussions. Dont throw that away...

Report any threads you have a problem with and they will be looked into.

Exactly what Gryphon said.

I see no problem with any of the discussions going on right now or even duplicate threads. This isn't the official forums where saying things will result in a ban or thread deletion. PSU has always had a fairly hands off moderation policy in place where only people who seriously disrupt things get banned or deleted and I have deleted quite a few non productive posts already.

But please use the report feature if you think something is out of line, I monitor that stuff pretty closely.

And in the nearly 10 years I have run this site I came to realize that I cannot please everyone, I am sorry that you may believe this site is becoming "Forumside 2". Trust me it won't ever come to that. There are quite a few people there I would have banned long ago but they don't come here for that reason alone. :P

/t hamma
And yes, please PM me I read every message I get.

Another thing to consider would be removing the self application of med and engy tools.
I really like this idea :thumbsup:

There's just to many "One Man Army" opportunities being able to heal yourself with no downside at all.

[Vancha]

"We don't know what PSN will be like thus you can't argue that" <-- Sorry? If I can't argue anything because we haven't played PSN, then why does this forum currently exist?

As I already explained...

Something doesn't necessarily need to be unbalanced to be bad gameplay. I don't think people are arguing so much that HA + AV was unbalanced, but it was too homogenous, boring and cookie-cutter. If people can get the best armour, best AI and best AV with enough certs left over to get what they like, what reason is there not to get them?

If you feel it would be to the benefit of PSN for people to be able to have the one-man-army setup persist, then argue that...but using the viability of MAXs in planetside doesn't seem to address the problem people have with it.

I'm sure you can understand the difference between using Planetside as a reference for balance and using Planetside as a reference for gameplay in relation to speculative discussion about PSN?

[Kirotan]

Why Planetside: Next might fail.

1. It's SOE.

Lets face it, if you've played other SOE games you know that support is minimal, updates are few and far between, and even if a dev posts and acknowledges you, you're pretty sure they did that to quell the angry mob: they aren't doing a fucking thing except think of how to badly implement caves and BFR's. Again. Grats SOE on having 12 mediocre MMO games that bring in 10% of the revenue of World of Warcraft.

Let's just remember that the population will slowly atrophy and SOE will not address or fix any issues to help with player retention. They will work the understaffed people into rushing out an expansion with new features that will bring everyone back! Oh wait, they rushed it. It's buggy and flawed.

2. Somehow, your empire will get screwed.

We all know it. Something is wrong with your empire. In PS:N, not only will your Cycler still suck, but it will have some really fucking annoying muzzle flash that also reflects off your goggles. This can be seen through weather effects and past the maximum draw distance because the coding was outsourced to India and 90% of said code is a gigantic nest of If/Then statements that are so garbled it would make a pot of spaghetti cry for mercy. Have fun getting rocket spammed by reavers at distances you can't even see!

Fear not Vanu, for we have solved your Lasher woes. Even though the lash effect doesn't work, we decided the best people to listen to were the NC and TR, and they think it's still a bit too powerful. We decided that you can shoot the orbs to make them explode and do damage to players in close proximity. Just be warned that anyone can shoot the orbs to make them explode, so you might not want to shoot it down crowded hallways, big firefights...or anywhere, really.

After extensive playtesting, we have realized nobody in the New Conglomerate bothers to heal or repair each other, so NC players are no longer able to cert either Medical and Engineering. This will help to remove the "fight or flight" instinct and increase your combat potential because you know the enemy has to die if you are going to live. This will also increase the fighting effectiveness of the NC in general because you will die more; nothing inspires soldiers striving to gain liberty and freedom more than martyrdom! Each time you die you can hit VID to cry out "FREEEEEEEDOOOOOOMMMM!" and your brothers in arms will be driven to crush the enemy. We (and by we, Smed stared into his alphabet soup) think this is a good balance. If it's not, we'll take a couple years to fix it...maybe.

Also, every time an aircraft humps the ground to bug out the missiles of a Sparrow, the missiles turn around and deal damage to the MAX.

3. Battlefield 3 (aka 64 players is good enough).

Lets say SOE is charging $14.99 a month. Sure, you get massive battles on an unrivaled scale, but the price isn't worth it to many people. To many people (especially you hippies without jobs), a monthly sub is a downright ripoff. Even if you were paying it, you might decide to go play BF3 when it comes out because "64 players is enough".

Think about a Tech Plant owned by the NC, and the TR are attacking. Both have their pops capped, so 85% of their empires are fighting at this base. Huge fight, right? But how much of that fight can you experience? So the NC have 120 people here. "That's more than 64!" Well guess what? 40 of them are in the middle of spawning, 10 of them are laying CE, 20 are flying overhead shooting at something else, and blah blah blah.

At the end of the day, some people will rationalize away that a game like BF3 is just as good or better. With faster spawns that are closer to the action they might come to realize that they prefer slightly smaller battles where you can get back in the action faster and make a bigger difference. With the way the respawns and medics are, it can "feel" like a battle just as big: without the subscription fee. Also, if that sniper is pissing you off, you can just knock down the building. Is it fair to compare the 2 games? No. Will people do it anyway? Yes.

This can be prevented as long as SOE delivers a grade A quality game...who the fuck are we kidding here? I'll see you on the 24/7 Return to Karkand server.

4. Client Side hit detection/warping/hacking.

Despite every other flaw, this is the kind of crap most FPS players cannot stand. Imbalanced weapons? Fine. Spawn Camping? Tolerable to an extent. Bad map design? We can work with the challenge. But Client side hit detection? Not in 2011 buddy. Warping? Honestly if it's in PS:N, there will be no point to wear Rexo indoors because spamming ADADAD while holding down the fire button increases your survivability much better.

And I don't think we need to cover cheating in a game you pay a monthly subscription fee to.

Thanks for putting up with my puerile and shallow ranting! This is what scares me most of all!

[Aractain]

I'll see you on the 24/7 Return to Karkand server.


I LOLed.

You may be blunt but I agree with most of your points.

[Rbstr]

Fuck yeah Karkand!

[Traak]

The main objection I have to "one man army" stuff is that it makes things too hackable. I rode in a magrider with someone who was a supreme hacker. He was instantly emptying the entire driver's clip into targets. My ROF was not affected. I had long chats with him. It was amazing some of the stuff he could do, and was cooking up.

The more team-oriented things are, the more it will ENCOURAGE but not ENSURE good gameplay. And, some things are just not fun in a first person shooter if you can't do them alone, really.

[Manitou]

The main objection I have to "one man army" stuff is that it makes things too hackable. I rode in a magrider with someone who was a supreme hacker. He was instantly emptying the entire driver's clip into targets. My ROF was not affected. I had long chats with him. It was amazing some of the stuff he could do, and was cooking up.

The more team-oriented things are, the more it will ENCOURAGE but not ENSURE good gameplay. And, some things are just not fun in a first person shooter if you can't do them alone, really.
Did you think to report the guy?

[Hamma]

Indeed! :lol:

Also, we shouldn't rule things out of games in fear of hackers we should have solid anti-hacking software and policies.

[Rbstr]

The "hackers might abuse it" rule goes all the way down to: Why have any game at all? Hackers might abuse it.

Because there's nothing that theoretically can't be fucked with all the way down to recoding the whole damn game to a single persons advantage.

In this glorious day and age we have things like VAC and punkbuster that do a rather good job of removing hackers.

Considering PS:N is some kind of pay to play game they are surely going to monitor it even further than those systems.

I mean, what's the point of making a new game if it isn't even technologically current?

[Traak]

Did you think to report the guy?

This was back in the Dark Ages; EVERYONE was reporting him. He would play the same character for a few hours, get banned, come back with another. It was fascinating talking to someone from the Dark Side.

But I tend to be drawn to people of whom others Disapprove. In life, too. Doesn't prevent me from reporting and appealing them, but if they are friendly, I will chat with them.

[Effective]

Remove BR40 and extra cert points beyond br20-23.