2011 Release - Oh look flying pig

[Rabb]

Most people here will be seasoned PC gamers. So what I don't understand is why people still buy in to the idea that games will be released when the developers say they will. How many games release on time, how many even get released the same year they are originally supposed to.

PS:N Q4 2011 not bloody likely, seriously guys I want it as much as the rest of you but do you really think it will come out before 2012.

I may just be a cynical old git but I can't see this being released before Q4 2012.

Any other predictions?

[Grimster]

I think it is quite hard to predict anything with so little information. But if you are the kind that put faith into the company developing the game than a good prediction would be somewhere near the end of this year?

If I were SOE I would aim for the Christmas season always a good time to release a game. :)

[SavageB]

How about it comes out when it comes out?? I dont mind any push backs with releases, it means the game will be better.

[Heaven]

I still want info and updates on the game though even if its going to take longer to come out, im thinking early 2012 release and beta around july/august this year.

[Geist]

I'm thinking early next year is Beta, and Christmas 2012 is release. Think of everything we know. Little Info about the game+ SOE restructuring+ the precedents set by games before it= Delay Delay Delay= Q4 2012.

[SavageB]

I would be surprised if the game comes out at all this year, with the lack of any info at this point i would agree with the post above, no release till mid to late 2012, I hope were wrong!!

[BlazingSun]

I wouldn't mind if it came out sometime late in 2012. Gives me some time to look into BF3.

[Firefly]

We should merge all of these pointless threads into one big emo cry-fest.

[Sirisian]

Yeah Q4 2012 sounds like a realistic prediction for a game with a new engine with decent polish. Probably beta right before release. Skyrim is the only game I care about in Q4 2011.

[Nephilimuk]

10 out of 10 would read again

[Ant001]

There are a lot of good games due out this year. I will have plenty to occupy my time. So I can wait patiently to see PS:N "IF and when" it's released. And before you start - The Agency - Sony cut it because it's in trouble, but only time will tell if these cuts were enough.

[Duffman]

We should merge all of these pointless threads into one big emo cry-fest.

You seem to be the only one getting emotional. The people like me who don't have much faith in SOE are simply saying we don't trust them to deliver on what they say. You on the other hand blindly believe and call anyone who doesn't emotional and a baby...

OP doesn't sound emo at all simply rational and discussion Planetside: Next on a discussion forum...

[Logit]

There are a lot of good games due out this year. I will have plenty to occupy my time. So I can wait patiently to see PS:N "IF and when" it's released. And before you start - The Agency - Sony cut it because it's in trouble, but only time will tell if these cuts were enough.

Exactly, having to cut 3 stations as well as 200+ employees means the company is struggling, bad. Whether it had any effect on PSN isn't even debatable. Of course it did, or they woulnd't have to cut employees, and facilities. I know that the cuts had nothing to do with PSN, so they say..but do you think they are going to go around proclaiming the company is in trouble? Probly not..

[morf]

Looks like a lot of people now agree with my prediction I made months ago:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35808


Release date May next year if they push to get out a piece of trash early. End of year 2012 if they take the time to get it right. I don't mind waiting. Hopefully they will do it right and release it when it's finished.

[Raymac]

I guess its possible that SOE will only release 2 games in Jan. 2011 and call it a year, but I'm thinking they will be working really hard to get PS:N released before the end of the year.

It may push into Jan. 2012, but I just have a feeling the game is closer to completion than most of you seem to believe. Call me naive and idealistic, but I'm still hopeful that we will be seeing beta sometime this summer.

[morf]

I guess its possible that SOE will only release 2 games in Jan. 2011 and call it a year, but I'm thinking they will be working really hard to get PS:N released before the end of the year.

It may push into Jan. 2012, but I just have a feeling the game is closer to completion than most of you seem to believe. Call me naive and idealistic, but I'm still hopeful that we will be seeing beta sometime this summer.

I disagree. When smed uttered the words "new engine" what I heard was "back to the drawing board." Whatever they developed in-house, it's not going to support unrealscript, which in my estimation means every line of code has to be re-written.

[basti]

I disagree. When smed uttered the words "new engine" what I heard was "back to the drawing board." Whatever they developed in-house, it's not going to support unrealscript, which in my estimation means every line of code has to be re-written.

Unrealwhat?

[Raymac]

I disagree. When smed uttered the words "new engine" what I heard was "back to the drawing board." Whatever they developed in-house, it's not going to support unrealscript, which in my estimation means every line of code has to be re-written.

I don't think it means back to the drawing board. It sounds a little foolish to me to completely throw away years of work (and they have been working on PS:N for a long time now) just to implement a new engine and totally start over at the last minute.

SOE isn't above silliness, but we have to remember that since the cancellation of The Agency, SOE is putting alot of eggs into Planetside's basket. Smed seems to personally want PS:N to succeed, and obviously the company needs PS:N to succeed.

I still have faith that PS:N will be released "later this year" and it will be glorious.

[Mightymouser]

Developing a new 'in house engine'; could mean anything from a total re-write to changing some wrapper code and calling it set. It'd be hard to predict exactly what kind of delays that will actually mean.

I would expect that SOE would try to get this out no later than Q1 2012 though, if for no other reason than to show their parent company they're worth keeping around...

This is truely speculation upon speculations at this point though

[Mightymouser]

Unrealwhat?

The language used by the Unreal engine (which is what it's speculated PS:N was being written with). If they're doing an entire rewrite of their own engine, they could certainly match it to run whatever calls they wanted; I'm sure they could make it run Unrealscript if they decided they needed to...

[Logit]

Developing a new 'in house engine'; could mean anything from a total re-write to changing some wrapper code and calling it set. It'd be hard to predict exactly what kind of delays that will actually mean.

I would expect that SOE would try to get this out no later than Q1 2012 though, if for no other reason than to show their parent company they're worth keeping around...

This is truely speculation upon speculations at this point though

I think the games, and inevitably all of their deaths have proven time and time again that SoE isn't worth keeping around.

SWG and Planetside at the forefront of that list..2 Gold mines that withered away and soon will die completely.

[Raymac]

I think the games, and inevitably all of their deaths have proven time and time again that SoE isn't worth keeping around.

SWG and Planetside at the forefront of that list..2 Gold mines that withered away and soon will die completely.

Haters gonna hate.

I know there is alot of resentment towards SOE out there, and I totally understand it. It's not easy to keep your biases in check in a situation like this, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

If you can't get past "PS:N will fail because SOE sucks" then it's pointless even discussing anything with that as the foundation.

As MightyMouser said, this is speculation upon speculation at this point, so it's a little premature to get too worked up. I'm as excited as anyone about this game, so I'd love some more information sooner rather than later, but the sky isn't falling.

[morf]

If they're doing an entire rewrite of their own engine, they could certainly match it to run whatever calls they wanted; I'm sure they could make it run Unrealscript if they decided they needed to...

To us grown-ups in the real world this is called plagiarism. :)

[Nephilimuk]

what was MAG written in? quite sure it was something propriety and it has been confirmed that the netcode is written which is very important.

Not being a fanboi just saying..... in before the rage :rolleyes:

[Mightymouser]

To us grown-ups in the real world this is called plagiarism. :)
No it's not. Stealing the code is plagiarism; making the APIs compatible is called implementing an interface.

But please, try harder at the condescension; it's always refreshing to be addressed as though I was a 5 year old.

[Logit]

Haters gonna hate.

I know there is alot of resentment towards SOE out there, and I totally understand it. It's not easy to keep your biases in check in a situation like this, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

If you can't get past "PS:N will fail because SOE sucks" then it's pointless even discussing anything with that as the foundation.

As MightyMouser said, this is speculation upon speculation at this point, so it's a little premature to get too worked up. I'm as excited as anyone about this game, so I'd love some more information sooner rather than later, but the sky isn't falling.

I think SOE sucking might as well be fact at this point. What have they done to prove otherwise?

I LOVED SWG, I LOVED Planetside, hell I was even a pretty big fan of EQ2.

Are these games old? Yes. Did they have enough support after release to maintain a healthy, and thus, more lucrative player base? Nope.

I won't be one of those people saying I'm not going to buy the game because SOE has done a terrible job with most of it's products. They have great ideas for games, and when they release they are pretty awesome. But I'll remain skeptical on PSN's upkeep the entire time I play it.

[Raymac]

I won't be one of those people saying I'm not going to buy the game because SOE has done a terrible job with most of it's products. They have great ideas for games, and when they release they are pretty awesome. But I'll remain skeptical on PSN's upkeep the entire time I play it.

A healthy dose of skepticism is a very good thing. I'm just saying, lets get a website up before we start worrying about Patch 1.0 for goodness sake.

[The Desert Fox]

We need a list of who is on what side. the lines are blurry!

[morf]

No it's not. Stealing the code is plagiarism; making the APIs compatible is called implementing an interface.

But please, try harder at the condescension; it's always refreshing to be addressed as though I was a 5 year old.

I'm sorry my previous post assumed you actually had the first clue wtf you were talking about. If you did, you would know that api and syntax have precisely dick to do with it.

The fact of the matter is that any code SOE wrote would inevitably have extended the base classes that make up the unreal engine. So for example, let's say they wanted to change a player's run speed from the unreal default. The developer would have to create a sub class of the unreal player base class and set the groundspeed attribute to a different value. This is an extremely simplified example but the point is that this subclass means absolutely nothing without the base, which is proprietary unreal code. In practice, there would be hundreds of subclasses, each with dozens of attributes, all of them extending the base classes in the engine. You can't take the unreal base classes with you, or it's plagiarism, and the subclasses mean nothing without them. You can't tell the engine "give me a player with a groundspeed of 100" if it doesn't know what a player, or a groundspeed is.

So in addition to re-writing all of the subclasses that describe each object, they have to rewrite all of the base classes that they inherit. Hopefully a good amount of these already exist in whatever engine they developed.

And I know what you're going to say: "Morf! You're speculating! It might not have been Unreal! -I anticipate your argument and substitute reality:

It really doesn't matter because any way you cut it, you're looking at object-oriented programming. This means everything I just said about the base classes applies, regardless of which 3rd party engine they were using. For all intensive purposes, the base classes ARE the engine. The only speculating I am doing is assuming that "we're moving to an in-house engine" means "we were previously using a 3rd party engine."

P.S. You'll win more arguments when you start talking out of the top half of your anatomy.

[Mightymouser]

The entire point of Object-Orientated design is to allow for the modification or replacement of one module without impacting the code that touches it. That's literally the design's fundamental purpose.

In this case, the module to be replaced would be those 'base classes'; and as long as the replacement classes had the appropriate members available (i.e. The proper API) a child class written for one engine could be directed to another engine with relatively little modifications to the code (or if they are named the same, no modifications to the code, just changes in the included header files).

The code written within the propitiatory engine's classes is no-doubt copyright protected; however you would have a hard time making a case that the function prototypes cannot be reused. Thus a new engine can be written with a complementary API, which the children classes can derive from the same way they did from the original engine. Code that directly touches the base engine can be used with the new one the same way, as long as the function prototypes are the same.

[morf]

In this case, the module to be replaced would be those 'base classes'; and as long as the replacement classes had the appropriate members available (i.e. The proper API) a child class written for one engine could be directed to another engine with relatively little modifications to the code (or if they are named the same, no modifications to the code, just changes in the included header files).


So either you are creating base classes with the same attributes as the Unreal classes, which is plagiarism (as I posited in my second post). Or alternatively, you are creating base classes with different attributes than the Unreal classes, which involves re-writing every line of code in the subclasses (as posited in my first post).

[Mightymouser]

So either you are creating base classes with the same attributes as the Unreal classes, which is plagiarism (as I posited in my second post). Or alternatively, you are creating base classes with different attributes than the Unreal classes, which involves re-writing every line of code in the subclasses (as posited in my first post).


Creating base classes with the same methods, and member data names is not plagiarism, as I said:


The code written within the propitiatory engine's classes is no-doubt copyright protected; however you would have a hard time making a case that the function prototypes cannot be reused.

Telling someone you've a copyright on 'void SetLoc(long x, long y, long z);' is ridiculous. They have a copyright on the code by which they implement that function, but not on the function prototype itself. And the code by which they implement the function is exactly what SOE is replacing.

[morf]

I don't know how you get off saying that stealing attribute/member names is not plagiarism. Plain and simple, you don't have anything to back that statement up. Please show me either your law degree or any single document that can prove your point. Unreal works hard for their 25% and you simply can't write classes with exactly the same member names and call them your own.

[Mightymouser]

Have you ever heard of Wine?

It implements the Win32 API on a linux platform. They've done it for years, and if Microsoft could shut them down for copying their API; they would have.

So yes, you can write member functions with exactly the same name and call them your own. (There are even propitiatory versions of Wine available, so don't try that card).

Epic Games works hard for their licensing fees by maintaining a strong engine, by which I refer to the DLLs which implement the API, not by maintaining a good list of function prototypes. If SOE really intends to write a new engine from the ground up, they too will be doing a lot of work implementing that API, hence not paying Epic to do it. Although as I have said else where I doubt they are writing a whole new engine, which means parts of it will still be licensed from whoever originally made the engine, rendering the whole copyright issue moot.

P.S.You would win more arguments if you didn't make an ass out of yourself in every post; insisting you know better, when you have no idea what you are talking about

[morf]

Apples to oranges.

WINE is a platform capable of running compiled executables. It doesn't have access to their source, which is a proprietary language. Your solution involves not only stealing the classes with member names intact, but also interpreting the proprietary language (unrealscript). We can go around and around here but the fact of the matter is the code relating to the unreal classes is being re-written, because the alternative is plagiarism. SOE just fired 200 people and if there was anything close to plagiarism going on some disgruntled soul would be screaming at the top of their lungs about it.

I've lost the drive to reply so go ahead and get your last word in, but whatever it is I just want to preemptively say that you're wrong. Later.

[Lonehunter]

Most people here will be seasoned PC gamers. So what I don't understand is why people still buy in to the idea that games will be released when the developers say they will. How many games release on time, how many even get released the same year they are originally supposed to.

PS:N Q4 2011 not bloody likely, seriously guys I want it as much as the rest of you but do you really think it will come out before 2012.

I may just be a cynical old git but I can't see this being released before Q4 2012.

Any other predictions?
Please choose one of the other "Doubt Thread"s next time please. I understand your frustration, really. It's just getting annoying reading the same topic over and over with slightly different words.

No info + No info should = no assumptions, but everyone seems to think Q4, Q3, Q1 '12, I know everyone has an opinion, but it's just a waiting game now. Just Chillax

[Mightymouser]

Lets sum up:

- SOE says they are going to run PS:N in a 'new engine'

- You say this means they will have to re-write all the PS:N code line by line

- I tell you they don't have to if their new engine implements the same API

- You tell me "API has dick to do with it"; then go on tell me you can't do exactly what OOP is intented to do, which is replace modules which have the same API

- I inform you that you can indeed replace such modules, as long as they maintain the same function prototypes and members data names (i.e. the same API)

- You tell me this would be plaguerism

- I correct you

- You tell me I have 'nothing to back up [my] statement' and that "you simply can't write classes with exactly the same member names and call them your own."

- I give you an example of someone doing exactly that

- You tell me that the two are different because in this case a proprietary language is being interpreted. (Although the interpreter has nothing to do with the engine code)

You seem to enjoy pushing misguided opinions, and then when called on it; you come up with an entirely different (yet equally misguided) reason to carry on that you're correct in the face of mounting evidence that you in fact have no idea what you are talking about. It's quite sad to be honest.


Anyway, to your last point:

First; Wine and the situation we are talking about here are very much correlative. Wine implements the API of a proprietary software so that code intended to be run with calls to the original software can be run on another platform with calls to different DLLs. We are talking about doing the same thing with a new engine.

The engine is not the same thing as the interpreter. The engine is the set of DLLs which code calls to run certain functions (or to inherit classes from), the interpreter is what changes UnrealScript into a lower level language. SOE could continue to use the UnrealScript interpreter regardless of which engine they use; or else they could write their programs in another language entirely; Using the Unreal engine does not require UnrealScript; it's just a tool Epic has developed to make coding easier for modders. And the use of either in a commercial enterprise would no doubt require their own licensing.

We aren't talking about replacing the interpreter, we're talking about replacing the Engine, and that certainly can be done by mimicking the API; and under the exact same legal circumstances as Wine.

[Silverfish]

Bunch of Debbie Downers in here!...2012 release...come on! If I know my SOE, and I don't. I bet this game will be out by August this year!!

[SKYeXile]

from the looks of smeds post "Recently ( a few weeks ago actually) we made the call to update the game to a new internally developed engine. " it seems the engine is already made, they're jsut putting planetside on it...how much work that entails...well i dont know.

[Firefly]

You seem to be the only one getting emotional. The people like me who don't have much faith in SOE are simply saying we don't trust them to deliver on what they say. You on the other hand blindly believe and call anyone who doesn't emotional and a baby...

OP doesn't sound emo at all simply rational and discussion Planetside: Next on a discussion forum...
I'm really sorry you intuited emotion where there was none - I am underwhelmingly dispassionate about the subject of whether PS is vapourware or not, and any other even remotely-associated subjects. Read this thread, with the QQ'ing going on between at least two posters, and then come back and talk to me about "you seem to be the only one".

Have a nice day.

[The Desert Fox]

Listen I agree with everyones Complaints about SOE as much as the next guy. Hell I completely agree with the OP and most of the posts here, but honestly there are like 3-4 other threads that have turned into SoE Flamefests. this one is really unnecessary.

[Raymac]

Fuck it. Lets settle this the old fashiond way, with gambling. What do you say we create a "Planetside Release Date Pool"? You can buy different dates, and whoever gets it correct, wins the pot.

I'm seeing a whole lot of speculation and conjecture based on very little information. No reason to raise the emotion level here. So, drink a beer, smoke a bowl, have your girlfriend give you an old-fashioned. Lets just chill. There will be plenty of time to freak out over features we won't like in PS:N once we know whats in there.

[Grimster]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Isp4-zlWnGg/TMBNjlfKHmI/AAAAAAAAAAQ/I3kA2Z4QxRQ/s1600-R/flyingpig.jpg%3Fw%3D216%26h%3D207


:D

[Firefly]

Fuck it. Lets settle this the old fashiond way, with gambling. What do you say we create a "Planetside Release Date Pool"? You can buy different dates, and whoever gets it correct, wins the pot.

I'm seeing a whole lot of speculation and conjecture based on very little information. No reason to raise the emotion level here. So, drink a beer, smoke a bowl, have your girlfriend give you an old-fashioned. Lets just chill. There will be plenty of time to freak out over features we won't like in PS:N once we know whats in there.
PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD, JOIN HANDS, START A LOVE TRAIN... LOVE TRAIN...

[Rabb]

Sorry this turned in to a flame SOE thread it was not meant to be.

What I was trying to say was that the gaming community in general still seem to buy in to the release date claims of developers. You can go to allot of game forums and see people getting excited about release dates like "Q4 2011". When anyone that has been around the block a bit knows full well it's a lie just like the cake. I just find it sad that the majority of people are just that gullible.

Personally I've taken to adding a year to any release date claim until there is a solid date not something loose like Q1 and it is picked up buy the on-line distributors like play and game.

[Logit]

I just think it's a no brainer. You have the ability to make money on the original Planetside by simply providing the community with information on the sequel. You can make money on what has become a crapfest of a game simply by typing in a forum post ANYTHING about the sequel were all dying to hear about.

This was clearly proven when, not 3 months ago, we had poplocks on a regular basis simply because the Beta was looming.

Little to no effort required, and you make $$ without spending a dime.