Concept Idea for Close Air Support Vehicle in PS:N

[theSpatchula]

Ever since I started playing Planetside I always felt I was missing a quick air transport. A vehicle that could lay low but provide fire from its onboard weapons and the occupants inside. So, I began looking at ideas for vehicles and one that came to mind was the Blackhawk.

The Blackhawk is a versitle utility air support vehicle, and a vehicle similar to it would be great in my opinion. So for Planetside Next I created an image of the vehicle id like to see. The name my friend and I came in agreement to was the "Warhorse". The Vehicle is an alteration of its larger counterpart the "Galaxy Dropship". The Warhorse would be smaller and more agile much like a reaver. It would however all transport of one pilot, two chaingunners and four occupants sitting on side of open bay. The occupants sitting onside of open bay would be able to fire as well. This would all for snipers to gain vantage points from the sky.

This vehicle would act much like that of black hawk. While hovering in place, occupants will be able to drop from the ship safetly to the ground whether using ropes or aome sort of anti gravity fall from the vehicle. The vehicle would be mounted wiht two small 12mm rotary chainguns for some protection, but most of the survivability comes from the ability of the pilot and the troops below.

In order to construct the blueprint below I drew up a concept idea using the basis of the new Galaxy render for PS:N. Let me know what you guys think

http://img819.imageshack.us/i/warhorse2.jpg

Update 04/17/11 Alteration of Galaxy to fit specifications of Warhorse
http://img813.imageshack.us/i/warhouse.jpg/

Update 04/18/11 : We will be adding a small ten page - Development Manuscript, illustrating and explaining all our ideas for the Warhorse; as well as a proposed Background History. This will be a PDF booklet you can download and read if you choose.

Update 04/19/11 : The Development Manuscript has been posted, however the Background information of the Warhorse is still in development. Please take a look at the Manuscript, and let us know what you think.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B8yjwCxZYn4HZTRmYTc2NTYtY2U4NS00ZDhjLTk2ZWM tZmI0MGZiZmI4YTdi&hl=en

Update 04/22/11 : Prototypes of Warhorse have been spotter on Cyssor.
Photographic Evidence Below ( Wanted to see what Warhorse looked like with Planetside One Engine )
http://img194.imageshack.us/i/warhorseps1.jpg/

UPDATE 4/22/11 :Came up with this idea earlier, this is a quick skeleton structure of a sleeker warhorse let me know what you guys think

http://img854.imageshack.us/i/warhorsevariant.jpg/

UPDATE 4/23/11 :Altered Variant. It's getting better I think

http://img714.imageshack.us/i/warhorsevariant.jpg/

[Robert089]

Looks good to me, I like the idea of passengers being able to fire their weapons.

Imagine filling all the passenger sits with Striker wielding TR and hunting down Vannies, that would be awesome.

[Geist]

Haha, that would be awesome. I approve this idea.

I mean, you have so many types of multi-manned ground transports, so if the 2 man Reaver is any indication, I hope we can expect more multi-manned air vehicles as well.

[BorisBlade]

Yeah they couldnt do the shoot your own weapons thing in PS1 since once you get in a vehicle, you are the vehicle. Thats just how the tech works.

Still not convinced its the right choice to let people use their own guns, but could be fun if done right. Keep in mind you would have to disallow using certain weapons such as jammers whether thrown or from a thumper. Or you could keep your target unable to fire indefinately. And there would undoubtably be other issues like that. It could be worked around tho with some limits imposed but its just somethin to keep in mind.

I am very excited for something thats basically a "Flying Deliverer" 1pilot/2gunners/2 or 3 passengers Great for half squad transport or a hit and run air attack vehicle. Or possibly same concept minus the passenger slots. Just the pilot and two gunners. Basically a mini gal gunship, speed slightly more than a lib with about the same armor, maybe a bit more, but with an extended afterburner to help with hit and run. It would have 20mm weapons, possibly 25mm if testing proves it needs more. No rockets, no grenade launchers. Its more for attacking vehicles, not infantry. Less burst firepower than a reaver since it has no rockets and it cant maneuver nor is it as fast as a reaver. But has more armor and with two gunners seperate from the pilot can fly and attack.

Also as far as your choice of 12mm on the Warhorse. Keep in mind in PS, bigger guns dont mean it does more damage. Each mm size is for a different target type. 12mm shreds infantry, it does more damage than a 15 or 20 to softies but does pathetic AV and AA damage. In Comparison a 20mm shreds air and armor but does less to infantry (still does well tho). A 15mm is about mid ways on all three but so far has been a "TR only" kind of thing. On that kind of ship you usually arent so much worried about infantry. Its prob better off with two 20mm guns. Otherwise if you see any vehicles you wont be of much use other than an annoyance or distraction.

[theSpatchula]

Its funny you say that about the 20mm, cause actually was talking with a few of the people who helped with the idea and we kind of all agreed that 20mm would be best way to go, and as for using your weapons from the open bay.

That idea came from games like the battlefield series. Aiming while moving on a fast moving air craft can be challenging, but can see the concern with certain weapons and devices.

[DviddLeff]

Really like the idea of a black hawk style vehicle. The phantasm and gal do their jobs well, and a half way house would be great.

Size wise it needs to be smaller than the gal as you say.

20mm as people say would probably be best.

Also make it not tech plant dependent so it's available to all.

[Firefly]

One suggestion, from a military standpoint.

CAS is not transport action, it is an action performed by low-occupancy aircraft designed to deliver high volumes of lethal fire with pinpoint precision within close proximity to friendly forces. In Planetside's terms, CAS can be performed by Galaxy Gunships, Reavers, and Liberators. My suggestion is, redefine this as something which better fits its definition - an armed light transport.

Of course, this is where DvidLeff's configuration scheme can come in handy, at which point you turn this into a sort of fat-ass Little Bird. Either run as attack (then you can be CAS) or as transport.

[Baneblade]

Bring the Huey to PSN.

[wildcat140679]

Dunno exactly why, but star wars clone wars came to mind when I looked at the blueprint.

Anyway I like the general idea of having small sized air-transport, with the role of getting in to a hot zone dropping the payload (the passengers) and get the hell out of the hot zone. If it as fragile as a Libirator, than I don't believe 12mm or 20mm guns will make much of a difference.

If it could stay of radar (like a harrasser) and be very small in size, I believe it would make a decent replacement for the Phantom.

[theSpatchula]

Alteration of Galaxy to fit specifications of Warhorse
http://img813.imageshack.us/i/warhouse.jpg/

This is just a photoshopped version of the galaxy haha, but you get the idea of what it might look like in game.

Currently working on full background and details of the Warhorse. Will be up soon as PDF file.

[Sirisian]

I like the idea. I am worried it might be a bit cheap. I had a similar thought for PS1 a long time ago but kept imagining people certing SA and just using it as a platform to "bomb" grenades for easy plasma kills.

Would you be invulnerable while gunning from it? If so it makes it a formidable sniping platform.

That's assuming the galaxy can hover still.

[theSpatchula]

We believe that the we would restrict not only armor choice, but certain weapons in the vehicle. I mean we may avoid missle, rocket propelled weapons like a stryker because in reality the backblast would end up in the open bay and kill everyone, but again thats not in stone. Also, MAX suits wouldnt be aloud on the Warhorse, they are far to big and clunky.

Yes, you would be vulnerable much like in the battlefield series. Mind you the vehicle it self is lightly armored and cant take much damage, acting more like the armor of a mosquito, maybe a little more then that. Frankly this vehicle would rely on a good pilot for survival. Hopefully we will be aloud to hover in PS:N

We are currently working on 10 page Development Manuscript, that we will post reguarding all our ideas and how we see everything might work.

[DviddLeff]

I would have it have the armour and handling of a Lib (or the equivalent in PS2); it is a multicrew vehicle and should therefore be slower and more heavily armoured than 1 or 2 man air cav.

If players can fire their guns out of the sides then they should be able to be targeted individually from the ground as you have said.

I hope that air vehicles in PS2 are much easier to take down; similar to aircraft in the battlefield series where it really comes down to pilot skill if they get shot down or not, along with how good the guys are on the ground using AA.

[theSpatchula]

I just went through VR Training again in PS1, and I will agree that the liberators attributes probably fit much better. The speed (89 KPH )and acceleration seem good, and I will agree that the 20mm weapons fit better for what this vehicle.

I would hope the occupants of vehicle would be all vulnerable, because nothing more satisfying then picking off a guy firing from the side of a flying vehicle.

[kamikava]

I agree that players onboard should be able to be targetted from the ground, be fun sniping people inflight.

What about air/air combat however? Will a mosquito be able to strafe past and simply kill all the passengers? I can see that getting abused.

[theSpatchula]

again there are kinks, but you def bring up a good point. I think that again comes to the argument that survivability of the crew and the ship are based on the abilities of the pilot, but could possibly allow some sort of cushion to damage of the occupants while on the Warhorse. Also remember its up to the 2 chain gunners and the occupants should be communicating where targets pop up.

My friend and I are still attempting to work out kinks and all this input is huge help for the Development Manuscript. The manuscript will provide all information for the vehicle and lay it out in extensive detail for anyone curious about our full view of the Warhorse.

[Peacemaker]

This is a great Idea, I am a pilot in PS and very often find my self wishing I could help transport my squadies who don't have air. Very professional job your doing to! I'm all for this idea, but let me throw in another idea to top it off. What if this thing was modular? There could be a Support version, a transport version, and a CAS version.

The CAS version would be equiped with rocket pods like the reaver, 2 high anti Infantry damage weapons, and no passenger slots. The rockets would be slaved to the pilot seat and have less DPS than reaver rockets but more splash damage. *Low damage big splash to supress enemies*

The support version would have no gunners and would repair / heal any infantry units
around it with a resupply term that could only replenish ammo stocks *Charge with NTUs, no NTUs = no ammo*.

Blackhawks IRL are multi purpose. They fill many rolls and this ship should too.

[theSpatchula]

We were considering that approach, but we felt that most of the other Air Vehicles cover those jobs appropriately. However, I would find having three variations of the Warhorse as you listed a nice addition and would provide more choice of exactly what you wanted to do with each air vessel.

I do worry though in doing so it may make some other air vehicles quite obselete, and thank you we are trying to take this as a serious proposal to SOE and the designers of Planetside Next.

[DviddLeff]

Yeah, propose it as having a main purpose; half squad transport with fire support, a niche nothing else provides exactly.

[Baneblade]

A flying Deliverer is what I've always wished PS had. I'd spend 6 pts of my certs for it.

[theSpatchula]

Update 04/19/11 : The Development Manuscript has been posted, however the Background information of the Warhorse is still in development. Please take a look at the Manuscript, and let us know what you think.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B8yjwCxZYn4HZTRmYTc2NTYtY2U4NS00ZDhjLTk2ZWM tZmI0MGZiZmI4YTdi&hl=en

[DviddLeff]

Looks great, few comments though:

1. Rappel mode; why not just have people hot drop out of it as with any other aircraft?
2. Size; it carries 7 people, yet in the scale diagram it appears to be smaller than the Lib? I would have thought it would be at least 50% larger, if not double the size.
3. Dates; when is PS set? I always presumed we were hundreds of years in the future.

[theSpatchula]

Yea, I have to go back and fix a few things of course.
This was the semi rough draft of the book.
The final draft will have all revisions as well as the background information for the Warhorse.

I forgot to change Rappel to Hotdrop Function, but yes its basically a hotdrop

[theSpatchula]

If we can get feedback, and poll votes would be much appreciated.
We will make changes where need be, we are really trying to get this vehicle to where it suits the likes and needs of all.

Thanks in advance guys.

[theSpatchula]

Yup more updates...
Update 04/22/11 : Prototypes of Warhorse have been spotter on Cyssor.
Photographic Evidence Below ( Wanted to see what Warhorse looked like with Planetside One Engine )
http://img194.imageshack.us/i/warhorseps1.jpg/

[Baneblade]

It seems too much like the Galaxy too me. It should be more streamlined or at least lighter looking. More like a large Lib than a small Gal. Or what the Reaver would look like with a Pilot, Co-Pilot (nose/tail gunner), two Door gunners, and two passenger seats (or perhaps one MAX seat). Huey meets Cobra sort of thing.

[Jonny]

It seems like you've just taken the galaxy artwork and stretched it, while in the process making the cockpit area way to large proportionally. Why not come up with your own design, sketched or modelled which has a different look than the galaxy.

Otherwise the concept seems good.

[theSpatchula]

As mentioned the vehicle was ment to be an alteration of the Galaxy. There is a full back story, but it has yet to be posted. The concept may not be to your liking and I apologize, but remember we aren't expecting this to look 100% like ours if it is picked up by SOE. Our concept is merely a stepping stone in a direction we hope leads to light armored tactical troop transport aircraft.

We are working on some variants of the vehicle, but those are still in sketch stages.
PS: The Planetside One render of the Warhorse is merely an extermely photoshopped picture of several vehicles put together. We dont have the rendering software or the tools to physically render the vehicle.

[BlazingSun]

Nice and well executed presentation of your idea! I have always wanted to see something like that in the game.

PS.: No Phantasm please.

[theSpatchula]

The Variant of the Warhorse will be posted some time today. This design is slightly more sleek and less clunk then that of the previous concept. It resembles more of helicopter, reaver, and misquito type vehicles.

[Baneblade]

Give this program (http://www.daz3d.com/i/software/0?_m=d) a whirl.

[theSpatchula]

UPDATE 4/22/11 :Came up with this idea earlier, this is a quick skeleton structure of a sleeker warhorse let me know what you guys think

http://img854.imageshack.us/i/warhorsevariant.jpg/

[theSpatchula]

Im thinking need to move wings and engines back a little it looks better in physical hand sketch.

[DviddLeff]

Looks good, maybe split the tail so it has the familiar spoiler from the Gal; this wants to be halfway between the Lib and the Gal, and not so much like a standard helicopter.

Thinking about it the Gal is more akin to the Osprey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell-Boeing_V-22_Osprey#Design) than anything else real world, and does have a lot of similarities. All the PS aircraft have similar style rotating jets, working in a similar fashion to the Ospreys tilt rotors.

[theSpatchula]

Were you thinking something more like this, and the engines attached to wings would be on rotating jets. They would pivit from the engine out to the end of the wing, allowing it to manuever like alot of the vehicles in PS1.

http://img841.imageshack.us/i/warhoursevariant.jpg/
Hah forgot to add in the image

[Baneblade]

Those are supposed to be open doors on the sides right? If so then the wings and engines need to be placed with that in mind. Angle the wings up the Z axis by 10 degrees and move the engines out to the end of the wings.

Something about exhaust kills ;)

[theSpatchula]

Im gonna post a Planetside 1 render so you can get better idea of the vehicle lol, but yes exhaust would kill in way its placed now.

[otomotopia]

Were you thinking something more like this, and the engines attached to wings would be on rotating jets. They would pivit from the engine out to the end of the wing, allowing it to manuever like alot of the vehicles in PS1.

http://img841.imageshack.us/i/warhoursevariant.jpg/
Hah forgot to add in the image

If you moved the wings closer to the middle section, then this variant would be nicer.

[theSpatchula]

Ill be pulling the wings back further they are too far up, I agree. I will also be texturing the image and adding lighting and shadows so can full understand the vehicle.

[otomotopia]

Ill be pulling the wings back further they are too far up, I agree. I will also be texturing the image and adding lighting and shadows so can full understand the vehicle.

I meant down, by the way, like closer to the ground.

[theSpatchula]

UPDATE 4/23/11 :Altered Variant. It's getting better I think

http://img714.imageshack.us/i/warhorsevariant.jpg/

In response to moving the wings down; let me know what you think at this point and if you still feel needs to move down let me know. The only reason I didn't move down is it would require aircraft to be longer in order to allow gun and open bay for soldiers.

[otomotopia]

UPDATE 4/23/11 :Altered Variant. It's getting better I think

http://img714.imageshack.us/i/warhorsevariant.jpg/

In response to moving the wings down; let me know what you think at this point and if you still feel needs to move down let me know. The only reason I didn't move down is it would require aircraft to be longer in order to allow gun and open bay for soldiers.
It's better, but I still like the original the best. The flanges are really cool there, but this theory of design still has promise.

[theSpatchula]

Do you mean the original concept that looked more like galaxy or the first variant?

[otomotopia]

Do you mean the original concept that looked more like galaxy or the first variant?

I think you have two concepts: The original concept, and this variant which you're re-designing. The original looks better then all the variants IMO, but the varient does have promise. If you threw in some landing gears on the sides, I think it'd be an improvement for the variation.

[theSpatchula]

Well personally I'm more fond of my original concept, but figured would post other ideas that had been kicked around. I like the variant but Im not into working on it as much as original because I prefer the original concept. Oh an wanna thank you guys for all the feedback it's huge help.