Please no one button kill quick knives in Planetside 2!

[EVILoHOMER]

It ruins every modern FPS today to the point that in close combat it's better to run round and knife everyone than it is to shoot. Knives need to work how they do in CS or even Planetside, where it is a last resort, exhausted your ammo or just for fun. I really want close quarters combat to stay with weapons and not sprinting up to everyone and hitting the I win button.

[MgFalcon]

I only remember them saying it's a "quick knife" not a one-hit-kill quick knife. I totally agree with you though.

[2coolforu]

It'd be hard to have a 'quick' animated knife that isn't a one hit kill, given they reference Battlefield: Bad Company and CoD I imagine that's insinuation that its a one hit kill button.

In this respect I agree with Evilhomer, especially in the most recent CoD's running around with a knife is far more effective than running around with a gun and combat within around a 10 metre circle of a person just runs down to latency and how fast you can knife.

Secondly an equip able knife is better and fulfills its role better, the only reason I would use a knife ( or SHOULD use a knife) is for humiliation of opponents, stealth or desperation. I should have to pull it out rather than just have a magical teleporting knife a-la BF:BC or CoD

[Sifer2]

I agree. Nothing is more annoying in an FPS than overpowered melee weapons. Not even Snipers.

[Raymac]

Yeah, my vote is for equipable knife and no one-hit-kills.

I still wouldn't cry if they add a quick knife, but I would have serious concerns with a one-hit-kill melee attack.

[MooK]

Leave equippable knives in. Give us stealth kills (would have to take a bit of time, obviously.) As mentioned above, knives are really designed for last resort or stealth killing.

[Sifer2]

Stealth kills better actually require stealth then. I have seen it screwed up in some games. Where you can do a quick strafe an be just far enough to trigger the stealth kill grab. Which is really stupid. Would have to be something like you must be behind the person an in range for 2 or 3 seconds at the minimum to perform it.

[etheral]

1 hit kill quick knifing would be ridiculously stupid IMO. Imagine an entire squad (hell, maybe even a platoon) of cloakers with one-hit kill quick knives sneaking into a base and killing off the majority of the defenders with silent, high speed, instant kills that never run out.

Total bullshit

[MooK]

Stealth kills better actually require stealth then. I have seen it screwed up in some games. Where you can do a quick strafe an be just far enough to trigger the stealth kill grab. Which is really stupid. Would have to be something like you must be behind the person an in range for 2 or 3 seconds at the minimum to perform it.

I've been playing Riddick recently on the PS3, and I agree with you. The stealth kill should take time to line up, so it's really only useful to take out guys who are guarding an area, or aren't paying attention. Definitely no strafe stealth grabs. I also believe it should take longer to off someone in armor than not in armor.

[Bags]

Sorry, you have constant radar in planetside. Even if they do something as stupid as a one shot one kill knife I can't see it being that big of a deal. And they are making weapons more lethal, so if you're getting knifed often you are doing it wrong.


That said, I'm against it.

[etheral]

you have constant radar in planetside.

Has radar been confirmed for PS2?

[WellWisherELF]

I'd be fine with melee weapons being 1-hit kills from behind. Otherwise, 2-3 hits from the front, with the added option of speccing into increased melee damage.

But PLEASE DON'T ADD LUNGES!!!!!!!!!!

[2coolforu]

Sorry, you have constant radar in planetside. Even if they do something as stupid as a one shot one kill knife I can't see it being that big of a deal. And they are making weapons more lethal, so if you're getting knifed often you are doing it wrong.


That said, I'm against it.

Even the worst guns in CoD kill in 2-3 shots and fire rapidly yet I regularly get tactical nukes simply by using knife + commando. In bad company 2 my knife is more effective than an assault rifle in CQC.

These are the two examples we have and its obvious that the knife IS overpowered, now we have no idea how effective rifles will be but its obviously not going to be 2-3 shot kills. you simply cant have a 1000 person battle in which people die in 2 shots so go do the math on how effective an instagib knife would be.

[DviddLeff]

I am for one hit quick knife kills.

But no crappy lunge mechanic or specialisation!

[Raymac]

I'd be fine with melee weapons being 1-hit kills from behind. Otherwise, 2-3 hits from the front, with the added option of speccing into increased melee damage.

But PLEASE DON'T ADD LUNGES!!!!!!!!!!

I'm against 1-hit kills in general, but I could support this idea.

[basti]

Where the fuck do you guys that that idea for one hot hit knives? NOBODY SAID A SINGLE WORD ABOUT THAT FFS!

[2coolforu]

I'm ok with a knife being 1 hit as long as it forces you into a long-ass 5 second animation of you wrestling with the other guy then repeatedly stabbing them in the neck or something. Just so that its actually believable, this would also give the guys squadmates plenty of time to shoot you and save him and make it so the knife is actually only used for stealth

[Raymac]

Where the fuck do you guys that that idea for one hot hit knives? NOBODY SAID A SINGLE WORD ABOUT THAT FFS!

Calm down dude. Matt Higby said they are still deciding if they will have quick knife or equipable knife, so I think it's good we add our say, especially now when they are still deciding. 1-hit melee might not have been mentioned specifically, but whether or not to have it is bound to come up at some point.

[BorisBlade]

I am for one hit quick knife kills.

But no crappy lunge mechanic or specialisation!

No, and if it one shots ya then why would you need specialization? So you could kill in half a hit? If you wanna fight, use a gun. Besides they want to put in the awful CoD style near instant deaths, is it too hard to pull a trigger for the split second it takes to kill someone in those games? Leave the knife as is. The instant deaths and squad spawns will be lame enough, we dont need anymore cheapness.

[Duddy]

ITT: People over-reacting to their own assumptions

They said quick knife... now where does that explicitly say that it is 1 hit kill?

Perhaps the knife will still take multiple hits (from full health) but can be activated without equipping it?

Fact is we don't know yet. It's fine to be concerned about 1 hit kill knives, but some of you need to chill.

[Bags]

Better to let them know we're against it than to silently wait.

[dsi]

Better to let them know we're against it than to silently wait.

This, the earlier they know the higher of a chance they'll make a change for the good.

[Bags]

Yup, and Matt Higby claims to lurk on PSU.

Now if it's a quick knife that takes 3(?) shots to kill like it does currently in ps then I don't really care.

[Vancha]

Sneaking up on someone with a knife in hand feels great. Sneaking up on someone with a REK in hand and then swinging a knife out of thin air? Not so much. For that reason alone I think I'd prefer not to have a "quick" knife.

I can imagine there being a lot of angry NC if they had one-slice knife kills like that, also.

[EVILoHOMER]

I can agree if there is a spy/invisible hacker class like Planetside has then I can accept it for them with kills from behind. I just don't want soldiers to have it, they should have to select the knife, otherwise you get into the situation of everyone knifing because it's far more effective like in COD and sometimes in BFBC2.

I much prefer the old style where you have to select it like Counter Strike. You go through your rifle ammo, bring out the pistols and then go to the knife. You shouldn't be able to quick knife and then shoot all in an instant.

Plus it also makes it fun if you pull out a knife and then the enemy knows it's on and pulls out theirs and you know noone is going to shoot the other one as it takes time to switch. Where as with quick knives you always have a gun out so you cannot tell or have abit of fun like that.

[Firefly]

they are still deciding if they will have quick knife or equipable knife
This most likely means:

"Do we want them to:
1) Press F5 to draw your blade
2) Select "knife" from the Equipment terminal and equip to pistol slot"

[Aractain]

Im okay with a meele button (and a grenade button) as long as they arn't free (a 1 second animation that interupts fire) and arn't instant kill (and the grenade button is on a longer timer than the grenade).

[Elude]

Remove knife, add bashing that takes multiple hits to kill someone.

[Gogita]

I don't like the idea of a quick knife attack. What would be interesting is a bash attack, which has been mentioned on the forum a couple of times. Now there is only the problem is making bashing attractive enough for people to use when they're at close range without simply giving bashing high damage (otherwise just having a non instant kill knife would be exactly Tue same), because why use bashing if you can just shoot.
What could be done is giving bashing relative low damage (20% ish), but give it a concussive effect which has a similar effect as when a grenade explodes close to you in BF2. This would give the attacker a large advantage without it being certain that the attacker wins.
It should also be the case that this is not an attack that is spamable at a high rate,preventing it from being used as your main way of killing someone, but keeping it a situational attack ( finishing off an enemy that has low health and at melee distance or an opening move if you manage to sneak up someone's back)

[bkx]

Please no one-hit-kills at all... You won't see people running around and really engaging the terrain if they are afraid of being insta-killed by a sniper or a cloker with a knife. The harder it is to kill, the more that people will get out of cover and run around, creating good gameplay.

[bkx]

Or, how about bashing with certain weapons (rifles, pistols, but not heavy weapons) and a separate equippable knife.

[EVILoHOMER]

This most likely means:

"Do we want them to:
1) Press F5 to draw your blade
2) Select "knife" from the Equipment terminal and equip to pistol slot"

Why am I hitting F5 rather than a number key?

[Lonehunter]

If it's a weapon you have to equip and are unable to use any other weapons while using it, then I'm fine with the one hit kill. But an insta-one-hit kill with any weapon out just spells disaster.

Although, if there are any one hit knife kills, cloakers are gonna have a blast with that. Just wait in a hallway for someone to run into you and stab lol.

[Firefly]

Why am I hitting F5 rather than a number key?
I randomly made shit up?

[moosepoop]

this game should have chainsaws for melee, then everyone is happy

[ZeroOneZero]

Black Ops sword says Hi.

[Kran De Loy]

Oh please dear God, no quick knives.

One of my favorite things from Planetside was the Terran's chain knife and that a cloaked stealther could sneak up on someone than turn that baby on directly behind them.

It was perfect.

[Hamma]

I think "Quick Knife" refers to what it is now.
Yup, and Matt Higby claims to lurk on PSU.

Now if it's a quick knife that takes 3(?) shots to kill like it does currently in ps then I don't really care.
I know this is a semi old post, but he is posting here:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/gviptracker.php

Check out the tracker.

[Valdae]

I dont see what the problem is. One knife kills are popular in other games because they are satisfying when you pull them off, whilst 'bash attacks' always seems totally underpowered and pointless. I'm all for one hit kills if you can get behind your opponent like Halo Reach, especially if it has a long animation that leaves you vulnerable.

In ps i felt like I was attacking people with a burger flipper :-/

[Volw]

I'm sure playing with god-mode and instagib weapons is fun and satisfying as well! Therefore I want it in PS2!

Oh and I want to be able to nuke everyone from the orbit! That's the only way to be sure, after all.

[Valdae]

I'm sure playing with god-mode and instagib weapons is fun and satisfying as well! Therefore I want it in PS2!

Oh and I want to be able to nuke everyone from the orbit! That's the only way to be sure, after all.

Lame argument. How many good games are full of instagib weapons and god modes? None. Players dont like to repeatedly do things that arent challenging or take no skill. Its another reason why people didnt like biffas in ps1. An orbital nuke however...

[basti]

Players dont like to repeatedly do things that arent challenging or take no skill.

Exactly. Now how much of a challange is it and how much skill is required to run up to your enemy, press button a, and bang he is dead. :)

[Valdae]

Exactly. Now how much of a challange is it and how much skill is required to run up to your enemy, press button a, and bang he is dead. :)

Well lets face facts, its not as easy as just aiming and shooting someone. Put that mechanic in a more open environment and I dont think it would be that prominent. The real problem would come when an infiltrator takes out a ridge full of snipers in seconds.

On the other hand, a lot of people found the knife worthless in ps1, and personally I was hardly ever killed by it. My preference would be hack 'n' bash for the frontal attacks, with long instakill execution animations for the perfect backstab. I think thats the best of both worlds.

[basti]

The knive was quite useful as a cloaker, and thats where it should stay. After all, we are in a war. You dont run around with knives in a sci fi war, unless you are a cloaked assasin behind enemy lines. :)

[Redshift]

The knive was quite useful as a cloaker, and thats where it should stay. After all, we are in a war. You dont run around with knives in a sci fi war, unless you are a cloaked assasin behind enemy lines. :)

i agree i loved knifing people, was just about the most satisfying way of killing someone since it was hard, maybe not quite as satisfying as shooting spitfires as people ran past :)

[Gogita]

i agree i loved knifing people, was just about the most satisfying way of killing someone since it was hard, maybe not quite as satisfying as shooting spitfires as people ran past :)

Something that ALWAYS gave me a smile as sniper... :D

[Hamma]

I don't foresee instakill weapons in PS. Not everything has to be to extremes..

[Kran De Loy]

I don't foresee instakill weapons in PS. Not everything has to be to extremes..
I'm not saying this thread should be sticky'd. Far from it actually. It just needs to stay on the front page.

The issue really isn't so much about instant melee kills. Your entirely correct in that. That's fairly unrealistic of happening for anything outside of instant death match type games which the Higby or Smed or whoever said they wanted to stay away from.

The issue is about having a knife that makes chain saw noises.
(Or glow stick with Wang Emitter noises if you've got purple blood.)

[Hamma]

:lol:

What difference does it make what the model of the weapon is?

[basti]

I'm not saying this thread should be sticky'd. Far from it actually. It just needs to stay on the front page.

The issue really isn't so much about instant melee kills. Your entirely correct in that. That's fairly unrealistic of happening for anything outside of instant death match type games which the Higby or Smed or whoever said they wanted to stay away from.

The issue is about having a knife that makes chain saw noises.
(Or glow stick with Wang Emitter noises if you've got purple blood.)

The issue there was just balance, nothing else.

The sound the knives do often enough is completly unoticed by the enemy, just because they dont pay attention.

But in any way, i want the EXACT same knives with the exact same mechanic. And give infiltrators a skill tree for the knives, like incereasing damage, lowering the sound/glow from them while active, faster stabbing, etc. Just dont make them instant stab for everyone, or fast knive for everyone.
Actually, leave this fast knive crap or hitting people with your weapon out of the game completly. Its just annoying, nothing else. Let people shoot their guns, or use the knive, not both at the same time.

[Traak]

There is no third person for infantry in Planetside 2.

This will make knifing not NEED OSOK to be effective for cloakers.

[Traak]

I don't foresee instakill weapons in PS. Not everything has to be to extremes..

They said that headshots would exist, however. I'm hoping the headshots would lead to heavy damage or such, but not OSOK, so it becomes shriek, gibber, and dive for cover everytime yet another game-ruining sniper swaggers onto the field.

[Kurtz]

I've beta tested BF games for almost a decade. I've been introducing DICE guys to Planetside for years. I think its great that PS2 devs are looking hard at BF and that Smed likes it so much. I've always used both as examples as to how each could be better.

BUT, the faster gameplay in PS2 concerns me. When I say faster gameplay I mean the potential for headshots, insta-knife-kills and even faster to action.

PS1 had a great "routine" of running into battle, getting injured, running out, taking cover and healing and repairing. Run in, run out, heal, repair repeat.

After playing the BF series for years (competively) where dolphin diving, Med pack spammin, and chain reviving (where a chain of people and a specific order or reviving team mates is implemented) was commonplace.Ive seen how BF game mechanics can be exploited to have 5 guys go from dead to alive in less than one second.

I also proved in BFBC2 beta that you could have your best weapon be the Knife simply by only using the knife and running in and gutting 4-5 people per spawn. There was a Sprint - Knife net code lag that made it almost impossible to defend even if you saw me coming.

I like both gameplays however I feel that BF is a little too fast....and that its NOT planetside.

I do think the whole idea of running in, running out, repairing and healing over and over again is a little too ritualistic in today's era, I certainly don't want to see a bunch of insta gib kill spam that you get in the BF series.

yes headshots are good. Yes knife kills are good. Just not the way CoD and BF do it....for this game.

So, I hope that they balance the pace of the game, so that it is a tad faster than the old PS but not quite as fast as the Battlefield series.

[Traak]

Game speed increase: AMS parked nearby.

"More gunning, less running" is one of my trademark chat macros.

Also, "The AMS is my weapon, and soldiers are my ammo!"

[Rbstr]

Wow, that's amazingly lame.

[Malorn]

I've beta tested BF games for almost a decade. I've been introducing DICE guys to Planetside for years. I think its great that PS2 devs are looking hard at BF and that Smed likes it so much. I've always used both as examples as to how each could be better.

BUT, the faster gameplay in PS2 concerns me. When I say faster gameplay I mean the potential for headshots, insta-knife-kills and even faster to action.

PS1 had a great "routine" of running into battle, getting injured, running out, taking cover and healing and repairing. Run in, run out, heal, repair repeat.

After playing the BF series for years (competively) where dolphin diving, Med pack spammin, and chain reviving (where a chain of people and a specific order or reviving team mates is implemented) was commonplace.Ive seen how BF game mechanics can be exploited to have 5 guys go from dead to alive in less than one second.

I also proved in BFBC2 beta that you could have your best weapon be the Knife simply by only using the knife and running in and gutting 4-5 people per spawn. There was a Sprint - Knife net code lag that made it almost impossible to defend even if you saw me coming.

I like both gameplays however I feel that BF is a little too fast....and that its NOT planetside.

I do think the whole idea of running in, running out, repairing and healing over and over again is a little too ritualistic in today's era, I certainly don't want to see a bunch of insta gib kill spam that you get in the BF series.

yes headshots are good. Yes knife kills are good. Just not the way CoD and BF do it....for this game.

So, I hope that they balance the pace of the game, so that it is a tad faster than the old PS but not quite as fast as the Battlefield series.

I agree with this. PS was a tad too slow, but I think the main slowness was the time it took to get back to the fight.

Speeding up the time it takes to kill...yes, a little bit. But not to the level of Battlefield games. A halfway point between PS and the battlefield games would be good.

I don't want to see a tank die to 1-2 AV shots either.

The major concern I have is that if you speed up lethality you will see the respawn screen a lot more, which only exacerbates any travel/respawn issues in the game. Having a slightly slower pace for PS compared ot battlefield is a good thing. Dying instantly without much time to react is fine for a game like Battlefield where you'll be back in the action in about 5-10 seconds, but PS is many times longer than that. As a result, the pacing should be less lethal.

A bit less lethality also makes things more tactical and makes random luck less prevalent. All good things, especially for Planetside.

[Rbstr]

The TTK stuff really depends on how much they've facilitated close the the action spawning.

It seems like something they're trying to do, with galaxy spawning and the like,

[EVILoHOMER]

As a Vanu player (I haven't played since BFRs so do correct me) all I want for the Vanu is the glowing Force Blade back! It really pissed me off when they took that out and never even gave us the option to toggle it or make it a special knife.

[EVILoHOMER]

Planetside wasn't slow until SOE rushed out another poor expansion to be thrown on the pile of their history of poor rushed expansions. Then they did the whole dumb Bending and BFRs thing which massively ruined the game so everyone left. The population was already on the downturn thanx to Core Combat and BFRs just killed it off, which the game never recovered from. With Planetside it's hard to get people back when all the big battles are gone, so it was a vicious circle.

SOE really needs to not rush out Planetside 2 and only release it when it's ready. Otherwise it'll be a disappointment and the population will never be big and the game will be dead before 30 days like all MMOs are these days.

I still reckon they'll fuck something up and do another SWG where they promise and promise and not deliver on anything.

[headcrab13]

I'd prefer it if knives did minimal damage from the front, double damage from the back, and also had a "charged" attack where you could hold down the mouse button for 2-3 seconds behind an unsuspecting victim for a finishing move.

-HC13

[megamold]

I'd prefer it if knives did minimal damage from the front, double damage from the back, and also had a "charged" attack where you could hold down the mouse button for 2-3 seconds behind an unsuspecting victim for a finishing move.

-HC13

i am 100% against 1 hit knife kills , but if we do get a quick knife with a type of system like headcrab describes i would be able to live with that

but i think this will also be one of those things we will get a vote on once launch comes

[Bing]

Sneaking up on somebody and successfully murdering them with the knife has always been one of the most exciting, heart pumping experiences I've had in Planetside and indeed any game, and it has been that satisfying the many years I've played.
I always felt the knife was hard to get kills with, but in a world filled with heavily armored soldiers with advanced guns, shouldn't it be?
I'm still for the knife being an equipped weapon as before, but I do recognize that it can't be its own dedicated play style as it is now. If that's what the devs intend or not, I don't know.

[Kitija]

You are all absolutely overthinking this knife thing.
If it was a quickkill 1 shot knife this ability would only be given to the infiltrator class you would have to be behind them and combo'ed with a headshot. and you would most likely have to spec into it.. (as long as were all saying what we think it should be)

knife fights for grunts and other fodder would be the same as PS

[megamold]

You are all absolutely overthinking this knife thing.
If it was a quickkill 1 shot knife this ability would only be given to the infiltrator class you would have to be behind them and combo'ed with a headshot. and you would most likely have to spec into it.. (as long as were all saying what we think it should be)

knife fights for grunts and other fodder would be the same as PS

that does sound like a logical way for the knife the work :)

[Malorn]

Weapon-switch delay is an important tradeoff in games. Making a weapon exempt from that is just dumb.

1) You have a delay when switching with every weapon, why is the knife suddenly faster? You still need to holster the weapon and draw the knife, just like you'd do with anything else.

2) From a gameplay perspective it is just cheesy. Knives should be used for stealth or as a last resort. In either case its' a conscious decision and when stealth isn't required there shouldn't be any reason a Knife is more appealing than say a pistol at close range.

3) It detracts from weapons that might have built-in melee effectiveness, such as a bayonette. Weapons with alternate fire modes that have bayonettes have an advantage in melee - that's the point. The advantage is you dont' have the delay between going melee weapon or shooting because you can simply stab. Melee-effectiveness is an advantage that can be given to certain weapons, or even be used as a weapon attachment or upgrade. Q

I can see why quick knives became popular (comedy, people like stabbing, knife kills are humiliating, etc). But I do not think it is a good game mechanic. It's bad and detracts from gameplay in general and limits options for weapon attachments/differentiation.

I'd like to see equip-knife only in conjunction with melee attachments to weapons as infantry upgrades that have quick-knife like effectiveness in a way that makes sense and offers real tradeoff value.

[Traak]

If there are "headshot one shot kills" for snipers, then there has to be "Throat cut one shot kills" for knife-wielders.

You can't shriek about how wonderful and fabulous headshots are then whine and gibber about how bad it would be to, by the same token, not be insta-killed when someone cuts your throat from ear to ear, or jams the blade into your brains.

[Volw]

http://surferjerry.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/ar15-assault-rifle-chainsaw.jpg

[Hamma]

What the hell.. :lol:

[Traak]

http://surferjerry.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/ar15-assault-rifle-chainsaw.jpg

nice. Use that in Afpakidab or wherever?

[Malorn]

Looks like he put a chainblade on his cycler. basically the type of attachment i was talking about, but it should be a bit....smaller.