New PCG article

[DviddLeff]

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/07/09/planetside-2-was-originally-going-to-be-a-free-to-play-graphical-update-to-planetside

Very interesting.

[Raymac]

I am sooooooooooooo happy they changed their minds.

[Grimster]

I am sooooooooooooo happy they changed their minds.


I second that and I hope that the game won't be f2p. I hope we will see a monthly fee.

[Bags]

Thank fucking god. If they have any aspect of F2P, make it require a legit CC and function like the reserves; max level cap at a low level.

Then my brother would actually play (he refuses to pay for monthly games).

[Snow]

That’s why the original teasers for “Planetside Next” talked about release dates that have long since passed at this point–they were originall talking about a simple graphics revamp.

Well it's good to know that they weren't technically lying when they said they thought it would be out Q1/Q2 2011.

[etheral]

Also probably means that they arent quite as far into development as some of us would hope.

Still, like BorisBlade said in another thread, they dont have to make as much content as a more traditional MMO. Balance is more important

[artifice]

I hope they go for B2P like Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2.

I don't think the game can survive a monthly fee nor pay to win cash shop that is common with f2p games.

[Bags]

I hope they go for B2P like Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2.

I don't think the game can survive a monthly fee nor pay to win cash shop that is common with f2p games.

Sony should hire you since you understand the MMOFPS market more than they do.

[xcel]

Hey... come on lets respect each-others opinions guys....no need for hate....we all love the game here......

[Bags]

Hey... come on lets respect each-others opinions guys....no need for hate....we all love the game here......

Sorry, it annoys me when people think they know better than a million dollar corporation when it comes to running their business.

But this is SOE... so maybe he has a point. :p

[Sifer2]

Also probably means that they arent quite as far into development as some of us would hope.

Still, like BorisBlade said in another thread, they dont have to make as much content as a more traditional MMO. Balance is more important


Yeah if its true then they probably have not been working on it all that long. So a 2012 release is more up in the air.

Anyway I definitely think they made the right decision. Going full sequel may be more of a risk but I don't think a F2P update of the original game would have done well. Just the fact that its a new game may convince more people to pay attention to it that would otherwise wright it off for being an old one.

[Dreamcast]

When I heard F2P I automatically thought it was gonna be the graphics engine, only slightly better....Im glad they changed there mind.

[DviddLeff]

As we're aware the original PS had some shitty code that made it hard to upgrade, for example they couldn't change the base designs as everything was designed to stay static; any change in the underground layout and we would have had to re download the whole map (although not really an issue for people these days).

They have said that there will be a F2P element to the game; reserves style I would imagine.

[Raymac]

They have said that there will be a F2P element to the game; reserves style I would imagine.

I think that would be a great thing. The reserves worked great with the exception of the hacking, but that can be regulated. I mean if ever there was a time for a company to be anti-hacker it would be Sony now.

I still really hope there is a subscription option. With the amount of players and play styles this game will likely support, it should also support just as many pay options. The wider the net, the more players, the better the game.

[Bags]

I think that would be a great thing. The reserves worked great with the exception of the hacking, but that can be regulated. I mean if ever there was a time for a company to be anti-hacker it would be Sony now.

I still really hope there is a subscription option. With the amount of players and play styles this game will likely support, it should also support just as many pay options. The wider the net, the more players, the better the game.

If they require a legit CC it's a lot harder to abuse the reserves.

[artifice]

I think that would be a great thing. The reserves worked great with the exception of the hacking, but that can be regulated. I mean if ever there was a time for a company to be anti-hacker it would be Sony now.

I still really hope there is a subscription option. With the amount of players and play styles this game will likely support, it should also support just as many pay options. The wider the net, the more players, the better the game.

Except that the people who are going to play the game are people who mostly play first person shooters, regardless of play style. Planetside ran into the same problem. The people who play first person shooters are not accustomed to monthly fees.

In this era where more and more MMO games are going f2p makes it that much more difficult to justify a monthly fee. Even I am having a hard time justifying a monthly fee these days and I subscribed to Everquest, followed with Planetside and Everquest 2. This feeling is growing even more as companies like SOE try to nickle and dime us in a cash shop in an already p2p MMORPG. That is why Guild Wars 2 is so appealing. A full fledged MMORPG with no monthly fee and no pay to win cash shop.

[Volw]

Except that the people who are going to play the game are people who mostly play first person shooters, regardless of play style. Planetside ran into the same problem. The people who play first person shooters are not accustomed to monthly fees.

In this era where more and more MMO games are going f2p makes it that much more difficult to justify a monthly fee. Even I am having a hard time justifying a monthly fee these days and I subscribed to Everquest, followed with Planetside and Everquest 2. This feeling is growing even more as companies like SOE try to nickle and dime us in a cash shop in an already p2p MMORPG. That is why Guild Wars 2 is so appealing. A full fledged MMORPG with no monthly fee and no pay to win cash shop.

I've been playing APB Reloaded recently, and sure it is F2P, but for $30-$40 you can get OP guns. Same with premium shells in WoT.

I'm not quite sure if I'd like to see similar happening in PS. Sub ensures equal playing field.

Also, most of the F2P MMOs are ... not really MMOs. More like glorified server browsers (Inlcuding GW1). There's a few full fledges MMOs running on F2P, but with so many limitations it's essentially a glorified trial (recent example - AoC).

[artifice]

I've been playing APB Reloaded recently, and sure it is F2P, but for $30-$40 you can get OP guns. Same with premium shells in WoT.

I'm not quite sure if I'd like to see similar happening in PS. Sub ensures equal playing field.

Also, most of the F2P MMOs are ... not really MMOs. More like glorified server browsers (Inlcuding GW1). There's a few full fledges MMOs running on F2P, but with so many limitations it's essentially a glorified trial (recent example - AoC).

I think Guild Wars 2 is going to really set a standard. Right now the F2P market is bloated and that bubble will eventually pop. Though at the same time, the P2P model is dying off and F2P is like a reactionary solution.

[Bags]

Except that the people who are going to play the game are people who mostly play first person shooters, regardless of play style. Planetside ran into the same problem. The people who play first person shooters are not accustomed to monthly fees.

In this era where more and more MMO games are going f2p makes it that much more difficult to justify a monthly fee. Even I am having a hard time justifying a monthly fee these days and I subscribed to Everquest, followed with Planetside and Everquest 2. This feeling is growing even more as companies like SOE try to nickle and dime us in a cash shop in an already p2p MMORPG. That is why Guild Wars 2 is so appealing. A full fledged MMORPG with no monthly fee and no pay to win cash shop.

All of my friends who play FPS have played WoW, so the "FPS players don't know want monthly fees" argument isn't as valid as it was 8 years ago.

[Raymac]

I think Guild Wars 2 is going to really set a standard. Right now the F2P market is bloated and that bubble will eventually pop. Though at the same time, the P2P model is dying off and F2P is like a reactionary solution.

OK, so you don't like the P2P model and you don't like the F2P model.....really doesn't leave a whole lot of options left.

I think the Guild Wars 2 model is cool too, but it's wishful thinking to expect this to become the standard.

[Volw]

I think Guild Wars 2 is going to really set a standard. Right now the F2P market is bloated and that bubble will eventually pop. Though at the same time, the p2p model is dying off and F2P is like a reactionary solution.

Well, I havn't heard anything about instance size in GW2 and I don't think it's possible to maintain a server park for PS2 with just box sales.

Which leaves either F2P, P2P or some sort of a hybrid. I'm guessing they'll go with a hybrid. P2P is clearly not going to sell. DCUO partially failed because of it, so hopefully they have learned their lesson.

[artifice]

Well, I havn't heard anything about instance size in GW2 and I don't think it's possible to maintain a server park for PS2 with just box sales.

Which leaves either F2P, P2P or some sort of a hybrid. I'm guessing they'll go with a hybrid. P2P is clearly not going to sell. DCUO partially failed because of it, so hopefully they have learned their lesson.

Guild Wars 2 is an MMORPG with a persistent world like any other MMORPG. Instances are reserved for dungeons and player housing.

[Volw]

Guild Wars 2 is an MMORPG with a persistent world like any other MMORPG. Instances are reserved for dungeons and player housing.

What does make an MMORPG? I've seen games with 4 player per instance call themselves MMO.

So far, we don't know what's instance size for GW2. There are always limits, question is how large. Cause anything less than a 100 players is not really an MMO in my book.

[artifice]

What does make an MMORPG? I've seen games with 4 player per instance call themselves MMO.

So far, we don't know what's instance size for GW2. There are always limits, question is how large. Cause anything less than a 100 players is not really an MMO in my book.

As I said, it has a persistent world where all the players are. Just like World of Warcraft has or Everquest. Instances are only for dungeons and player housing.

[Volw]

As I said, it has a persistent world where all the players are. Just like World of Warcraft has or Everquest.

All of those games are instanced once certain player limit per zone is reached.

Again, we still don't know what's the number in GW2 and that's what this is all about.

Maintaing servers that are only required to support zone size of, say 32 players is MUCH cheaper than having to maintain a massive server park required to support 1000 players. Therefore allowing GW2 to be 'free' after the initial purchase.

[artifice]

All of those games are instanced once certain player limit per zone is reached.

Again, we still don't know what's the number in GW2 and that's what this is all about.

Maintaing servers that are only required to support zone size of, say 32 players is MUCH cheaper than having to maintain a massive server park required to support 1000 players. Therefore allowing GW2 to be 'free' after the initial purchase.

If you have 50,000 players, and your server load is divided up between 3,000 players per 'server', and then divided up by zones which are each handled by their own server cluster, it is the same as if you had 50,000 players on one 'server'. That server is divided up very similarly. In fact, it is the world size and the programming of the server software that differentiates say EVE from World of Warcraft.

You still have 50,000 players regardless. The same amount of bandwidth, processing, and server space is taken up.

The Guild Wars 2 world is big. Just from exploring the area outside the human city you can tell that.

[Volw]

If you have 50,000 players, and your server load is divided up between 3,000 players per, and then divided up by zones which are each handled by the serves, it is the same as if you had 50,000 players on one 'server'. That server is divided up very similiary. In fact, it is the world size and the programming of the server software that differentiates say EVE from World of Warcraft.

You still have 50,000 players regardless. The same amount of bandwidth, processing, and server space is taken up.

The Guild Wars 2 world is big. Just from exploring the area outside the human city you can tell that.

Calculating movement of 1000 players at the same time requires much more processing power and bandwidth (and yes - better coding) than calculating it for 50 players X 20 instances. There is no way around it.

Why do you think CCP has an extremely sophisticated server park?

[artifice]

Calculating movement of 1000 players at the same time requires much more processing power and bandwidth (and yes - better coding) than calculating it for 50 players X 20 instances. There is no way around it.

Why do you think CCP has an extremely sophisticated server park?

If you have a 1000 players playing on a server, it takes as much processing power and bandwidth no matter how they are divided up, be it 20 instances or one large zone. They are still moving, and calculations are being made regardless. In fact, once you take into the fact of AI of mobs, and you repeat that among 20 instances, if the instances are the same size as the zone, that is a lot more processing power.

Because CCP has about 16 normal MMORPG servers worth of people on one server which means the possibility of a lot of people in one area at one time. It is sophisticated in that they need to spread that out among a lot of separate servers at all times. It is massive in that they only have one 'server' for 50,000 people. It still doesn't take anymore overall processing power and bandwidth than if they had 10 servers of 5,000 people.

[Aractain]

I want Planetside to be a box buy supported long term by expansion packs (think old 4x style where you get new units and stuff but not new territorys) and cash shop vanity items that support customisation and maybe things like faster skill up times (OBVIOUSLY nothing that effects direct gameplay).

Guildwars 2 model basically... yeah.

That inital box buy is a big deal to get back the costs (and affords bigger budgets to make the inital game) but a monthly fee at this point is a big no from my point of view. It just can't be justified by so many people.

[Volw]

If you have a 1000 players playing on a server, it takes as much processing power and bandwidth no matter how they are divided up, be it 20 instances or one large zone. They are still moving, and calculations are being made regardless.

Because CCP has about 16 normal MMORPG servers worth of people on one server which means the possibility of a lot of people in one area at one time. It is sophisticated in that they need to spread that out among a lot of separate servers at all times. It is massive in that they only have one 'server' for 50,000 people. It still doesn't take anymore overall processing power and bandwidth than if they had 10 servers of 5,000 people.

Sigh. I'm not getting anywhere, am I? Last post from me regarding this - got better things to do.

Simple food for thought - what's more difficult to calculate, 1000 players interacting with each other, or 100 players interacting with each other X 10. It can even be (fairly easily) calculated :p

[artifice]

Sigh. I'm not getting anywhere, am I? Last post from me regarding this - got better things to do.

Simple food for thought - what's more difficult to calculate, 1000 players interacting with each other, or 100 players interacting with each other X 10. It can even be (fairly easily) calculated :p

I am not going to get in a circular argument. You will have more information sent back and forth with more people on screen, but unless you are shooting more people than you would if there were only a 100 people, the calculations aren't going to be any higher.