View Full Version : Sniper Skill Tree.....Please include Headshots and Prone
Dreamcast
2011-07-09, 07:55 PM
Ok I been hearing about the Skill Trees and Weapon mods, I really hope either will give us headshots.
Now from what I heard, wepons are suppose to diminish accuracy,rate of fire etc as other attributes increase.
So I would be willing to sacrifice rate of fire,bullets per clip,recoil,even accuracy for a headshot.
Hell make the bullet curve down to make it harder, I don't care along as there is headshots.
It will make Sniper battles funner, no more shooting a sniper only to have himself healed.
Now I know a bunch of you are going to say it will be op.
No it won't....Headshots on moving targets are hard.....even standing targets with meh accuracy and low rate of fire and possibly bullets curving down, could be very hard to do.
So yes, not OP at all.
Also I would if Prone was included for Snipers only as a skill.....Snipers are the ones who really need prone, it would help snipers hide and get better accuracy.
No. No. No. No.
No headshots is one of the few things the majority of the playerbase agrees on.
And there's no need for prone.
BorisBlade
2011-07-09, 08:00 PM
I hate the idea of one shot kills, period. However they are effin up TTK's everywhere apparently to clone the awful CoD/BF near instant deaths with every gun, so wouldnt put it past em to put in one shot kills for ya as much as it would suck.
Personally i never had a prob with 2 shot kills. It was more of an issue of lack of cover if anything that slowed me up. But that shouldnt be a prob in ps2.
As far as prone goes, many hate it for its bad implementation in other games. If it has a slow animation to get into and out of prone during which you cant shoot, then it elminates jumping into prone and also leaves you a sitting duck esp to anyone who gets in close. Also make it so you can only turn in a limited angle view and cant crawl around. Just need to tweak it so it works. Prone is fine if its done right. One reason why you dont copy CoD/bf games as they do alot like that badly.
Dreamcast
2011-07-09, 08:04 PM
Damn WTF is with COD.....You guys give Cod too much credit, Headshots existed long before Cod.
I really see zero problem with headshots, along as you are sacrificing something for them, I see nothing wrong....It will make skillfull players take the risk of just going for headshots.
So not everybody will be a headshot master.
2 hit shots is really lame for sniping battles, takes away the fun of actually risking showing your head...Sure you can wait for another sniper to snipe him and snipe at the same time or try to flank him and in the process waste so much time.....or you can just make it fun to risk yourself trying to snipe.
Damn WTF is with COD.....You guys give Cod too much credit, Headshots existed long before Cod.
I really see zero problem with headshots, along as you are sacrificing something for them, I see nothing wrong....It will make skillfull players take the risk of just going for headshots.
So not everybody will be a headshot master.
2 hit shots is really lame for sniping battles, takes away the fun of actually risking showing your head...Sure you can wait for another sniper to snipe him and snipe at the same time or try to flank him and in the process waste so much time.....or you can just make it fun to risk yourself trying to snipe.
No one said COD invented headshots. But COD is very popular and anything that is put in PS2 that is in COD will inevitably be attributed to it.
Gogita
2011-07-09, 08:07 PM
I really liked the role of a sniper in Planetside. In Planetside the Sniper is not a lone wolf that mows down rows of people nor is it an real offensive role (compared to the grunt). In Planetside, the sniper is more like a scavenger, hunting down the weak that just went to find some cover. Snipers are nice to have as a support fire for the grunts on the main battlefield.
Dreamcast
2011-07-09, 08:12 PM
No one said COD invented headshots. But COD is very popular and anything that is put in PS2 that is in COD will inevitably be attributed to it.
I mean it doesnt make sense since so many games have headshots...is not like is one of the few games that have it.....If I were talking about Killstreaks, I could understand since COD is one of the few who have it.
You guys mention COD so people will automatically think n00b sniper running around getting headshots like nothing.
The snipers Im talking about is more realistic, you know where is actually hard to get headshots......I see nothing wrong with that.
Hell make it even harder.....If a sniper with a headshot skill tree hits a guy in the body then the guy only losses like 1/3 of his health......So snipers with headshot skill tree have to be good to get headshots otherwise they will suck.
Happy?
MgFalcon
2011-07-09, 08:16 PM
headshots = more lag = bad. I love being a sniper and as much as I love getting headshots, having it in PS2 will defeat the role of the sniper from the original. I remember back in the day that it took skill to take out people with the Boltdriver, 2 shots agile, 3 shots rexo, ?? MAX, and loved getting that retarded cloaker that was uncloaked outside of a base. All in all headshots will kill skill (at least for snipers)
Do you really expect the devs to listen to one person wanting pretty niche features implemented? I'm quite sure they won't so better not to fool yourself and do a reality check.
Aractain
2011-07-09, 08:22 PM
How do hendshots make more lag?
How do hendshots make more lag?
Additional hitbox. That's how it was explained in PS1 ... and it makes sense.
Dreamcast
2011-07-09, 08:23 PM
I really liked the role of a sniper in Planetside. In Planetside the Sniper is not a lone wolf that mows down rows of people nor is it an real offensive role (compared to the grunt). In Planetside, the sniper is more like a scavenger, hunting down the weak that just went to find some cover. Snipers are nice to have as a support fire for the grunts on the main battlefield.
It wont change the role......Headshots should be very hard to do, enough that not anyone can do it and will require patience...I mean sacrificing accuracy,rate of fire,bullets per clips,recoil,damage done to the body,etc...doesnt sound good.
Regular snipers will still be the best to kill running soldiers, hell probably the best all around for regular soldiers.
Only few will be good with headshots only...I say let those skillfull players deal with it.
headshots = more lag = bad. I love being a sniper and as much as I love getting headshots, having it in PS2 will defeat the role of the sniper from the original. I remember back in the day that it took skill to take out people with the Boltdriver, 2 shots agile, 3 shots rexo, ?? MAX, and loved getting that retarded cloaker that was uncloaked outside of a base. All in all headshots will kill skill (at least for snipers)
It will make Snipers more skillfull.......Having headshots will make it more risky to show up your head and camp....it will make snipers think more about where they hide....so it will actually be more skillful.
Like I said headshots are going to be easy to be made.....they are going to be hard if you are sacrificing so much for headshots.
Only some players will be good at it.
How do hendshots make more lag?
Extra hit boxes.
MgFalcon
2011-07-09, 08:26 PM
It will make Snipers more skillfull.......Having headshots will make it more risky to show up your head and camp....it will make snipers think more about where they hide....so it will actually be more skillful.
Like I said headshots are going to be easy to be made.....they are going to be hard if you are sacrificing so much for headshots.
Only some players will be good at it.
Question: Have you actually ever played Planetside?
Dreamcast
2011-07-09, 08:26 PM
Question: Have you actually ever played Planetside?
Yes I have.
Aractain
2011-07-09, 08:28 PM
Extra hit boxes.
Why does THAT increase lag? Nothing about the hitbox is transmitted over the network. If its clientside you tell the server you hit the head (a tiny amount of extra data) or serverside it calculates it totaly (no difference than no hitboxes) and gives you the result (the damage). It does not need to tell you where the hitboxes are as if its rigid they are always in the same place and if its dynamic you are being told the bit of the entity that is moveing (like a tank turret) anyway.
Why does everyone think that hitboxes = lag? I don't understand.
MgFalcon
2011-07-09, 08:29 PM
@Planetside (user)
Then clearly you have no clue what your talking about, I didn't give a shit when it came to shooting just for a hit. I would kill at least 7 peeps before a reaver butt-fucked me
Dreamcast
2011-07-09, 08:30 PM
Why does THAT increase lag? Nothing about the hitbox is transmitted over the network. If its clientside you tell the server you hit the head (a tiny amount of extra data) or serverside it calculates it totaly (no difference than no hitboxes) and gives you the result (the damage). It does not need to tell you where the hitboxes are as if its rigid they are always in the same place and if its dynamic you are being told the bit of the entity that is moveing (like a tank turret) anyway.
Why does everyone think that hitboxes = lag? I don't understand.
Well the game was made back when lots of people had 56k.....so yeah tech has change, I doubt they will have problems now.
Dreamcast
2011-07-09, 08:31 PM
@Planetside (user)
Then clearly you have no clue what your talking about, I didn't give a shit when it came to shooting just for a hit. I would kill at least 7 peeps before a reaver butt-fucked me
Thats good.....I would love it better if each time a sniper sneaked there head up, there could be somebody who will kill them with one shot, will make it more riskier and have require more skill.
Vancha
2011-07-09, 08:33 PM
So lets say someone snipes and only snipes. They learn how to hit headshots 90% of the time on stationary targets. How would that not be overpowered?
basti
2011-07-09, 08:33 PM
SAY NO TO HEADSHOTS
MgFalcon
2011-07-09, 08:36 PM
Thats good.....I would love it better if each time a sniper sneaked there head up, there could be somebody who will kill them with one shot, will make it more riskier and have require more skill.
#Challengeaccepted
Also a good sniper should know not to snipe from where all the asstards are camping from. I.e. hotdrop from your mossie onto a treetop where it takes people a good 15 min to find you
Dreamcast
2011-07-09, 08:40 PM
So lets say someone snipes and only snipes. They learn how to hit headshots 90% of the time on stationary targets. How would that not be overpowered?
Allright.....First of all they will sacrifice accuracy,rate of fire,ammo per clip,recoil,and if they hit the person in the buddy they will do minimal damage....not to mention if there is bullet curve over distance which will make it harder.
So they will suck sniping moving targets unless the guys is super amazing.
Now non moving targets like u mentioned......Like I said ur accuracy is going to suck hard so each time u move ur gun, ur accuracy will screw up alot, the crosshairs wont be minimized for a while.
So while ur waiting to get ur gun to be accurate, a sniper can either kill u with a headshot or if he doesnt have headshot skill, hurt u and screw up your aim and leave u with 1/3 health remaining, meaning any sniper can kill u no matter where he hits.
Also players will learn to move and not just camp.
Doesnt sound OP to me.
Duddy
2011-07-09, 08:42 PM
As someone who spent the majority of my time sniping, along with my outfit consisting mostly of (you guessed it!) snipers, I'm definitely against headshots.
For one, nobody enjoys dieing in 1 hit from someone they can't see. Secondly the 2 shot kill system actually required more skill because you had to either always land 2 shots, or you had to be patient to get your kills (like er... real snipers!).
As for prone, I wouldn't mind it. Provided that it can't be used practically in any kind of close combat situation (i.e. being slow to get in/out of, not being able to move) and it's only available to someone who spends some points on sniping, sure why not!
Dreamcast
2011-07-09, 08:43 PM
#Challengeaccepted
Also a good sniper should know not to snipe from where all the asstards are camping from. I.e. hotdrop from your mossie onto a treetop where it takes people a good 15 min to find you
But some snipers don't do that they deserve to be headshot just like a good sniper.
Sirisian
2011-07-09, 08:45 PM
you must be new here. Read this Headshots (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35881) thread. It explains clearly what the community feels about this idea. It's easy to get the first shot as a sniper. Most players don't move much. The skill is making the second shot when they're moving. Simple idea really.
Dreamcast
2011-07-09, 08:47 PM
As someone who spent the majority of my time sniping, along with my outfit consisting mostly of (you guessed it!) snipers, I'm definitely against headshots.
For one, nobody enjoys dieing in 1 hit from someone they can't see. Secondly the 2 shot kill system actually required more skill because you had to either always land 2 shots, or you had to be patient to get your kills (like er... real snipers!).
As for prone, I wouldn't mind it. Provided that it can't be used practically in any kind of close combat situation (i.e. being slow to get in/out of, not being able to move) and it's only available to someone who spends some points on sniping, sure why not!
No it requires less skill......Getting shot and healing yourself is less skillfull.
Real Snipers do headshots which are very hard to do and which Im supporting that the hard part is replicated in the game...So u will need lots of patience to do headshots.
Example....a Person with headshot vs a Sniper with no headshot....Will probably equal the person with no headshot winning because he has way better accuracy and does more damage to the body....Headshot Sniper, only does that headshot damage, his accruacy being awful will make him hard to use.
Prone should be slow to get in and out of.
Dreamcast
2011-07-09, 08:50 PM
you must be new here. Read this Headshots (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35881) thread. It explains clearly what the community feels about this idea. It's easy to get the first shot as a sniper. Most players don't move much. The skill is making the second shot when they're moving. Simple idea really.
Thats why u make it hard for the Sniper with headshot skill to get headshots first?
Im not saying reuse the old Planetside sniping, I mean make it harder for people who want to be sniper headshotters only.
I read that thread I believe, I was supporting back then too except now I feel since Planetside clearly said that u will sacrifice attributes to make some better....Headshots will fit perfectly.
Zulthus
2011-07-09, 08:52 PM
If headshots are implemented, I say make it a skill where if trained in, you either kill the enemy in one shot with a headshot or in 5 shots with regular shots. Your choice.
MgFalcon
2011-07-09, 08:53 PM
But some snipers don't do that they deserve to be headshot just like a good sniper.
No.
Duddy
2011-07-09, 08:53 PM
No it requires less skill......Getting shot and healing yourself is less skillfull.
Real Snipers do headshots which are very hard to do and which Im supporting that the hard part is replicated in the game...So u will need lots of patience to do headshots.
Example....a Person with headshot vs a Sniper with no headshot....Will probably equal the person with no headshot winning because he has way better accuracy and does more damage to the body....Headshot Sniper, only does that headshot damage, his accruacy being awful will make him hard to use.
Prone should be slow to get in and out of.
Honestly, what real snipers do isn't entirely relevant, because otherwise it implies that you'd want to spend a lot more of your time in preparation for kills rather than getting them.
As for getting shot and healing, it happens. The fact is that if they do that you still have the advantage because they might not know where you are and you'll have the drop on them when they return to fire.
(Pro snipers just used to "do the dance" anyway, who needs to heal!)
Headshots just cause more trouble than they solve, and as you can see the community does not want them.
Also, your last paragraph makes little sense.
NCLynx
2011-07-09, 08:55 PM
Oh look it's this thread again.
No.
On a more serious NOte. No. I hope sniping is changed up a little bit to how it was in the original, but headshots? Nahhhhhhhhhh
Dreamcast
2011-07-09, 08:55 PM
If headshots are implemented, I say make it a skill where if trained in, you either kill the enemy in one shot with a headshot or in 5 shots with regular shots. Your choice.
Thats exactly what I said.....Is gonna be part of the skill tree.
If you head shots, You will have worst accuracy,low rate of fire,less rounds per clip(2 or 3),more recoil, and body hits wont do lots of damage......If they add bullet curve over distance, is going to be way harder.
So like I said, a Regular Sniper vs Headshot Sniper who see eachother at the sametime...Regular Sniper should kick his ass.
Thats why Headshot sniper is going to be hard to use.
Firefly
2011-07-09, 08:57 PM
Real Snipers do headshots which are very hard to do and which Im supporting that the hard part is replicated in the game...So u will need lots of patience to do headshots.
No we don't. Well, military ones don't. We go for centre mass - it's a wider target with more chance of hitting. Headshots are Hollywood horse shit. Headshots at 1000 metres is retarded unless you have an optics set-up the size of a fucking observatory telescope. The head looks like a pinprick.
Jesus fucking christ.
Duddy
2011-07-09, 08:57 PM
Thats exactly what I said.....Is gonna be part of the skill tree.
If you head shots, You will have worst accuracy,low rate of fire,less rounds per clip(2 or 3),more recoil, and body hits wont do lots of damage......If they add bullet curve over distance, is going to be way harder.
So like I said, a Regular Sniper vs Headshot Sniper who see eachother at the sametime...Regular Sniper should kick his ass.
Thats why Headshot sniper is going to be hard to use.
Even under that pretense you're suggesting that they require the game to use up that much more resources, just so a small percentage can have headshots.
Not worth it.
Dreamcast
2011-07-09, 08:59 PM
Honestly, what real snipers do isn't entirely relevant, because otherwise it implies that you'd want to spend a lot more of your time in preparation for kills rather than getting them.
As for getting shot and healing, it happens. The fact is that if they do that you still have the advantage because they might not know where you are and you'll have the drop on them when they return to fire.
(Pro snipers just used to "do the dance" anyway, who needs to heal!)
Headshots just cause more trouble than they solve, and as you can see the community does not want them.
Also, your last paragraph makes little sense.
The you guys talk about headshots is as if Im saying headshots will be available to each sniper and you wont do sacrifices...I am saying you are going to do lots of sacrifices and you wont be op.
How can you be op, when a regular sniper who doesnt do headshots will most likely kick your ass one on one.....?
Gogita
2011-07-09, 08:59 PM
No we don't. Well, military ones don't. We go for centre mass - it's a wider target with more chance of hitting. Headshots are Hollywood horse shit. Headshots at 1000 metres is retarded unless you have an optics set-up the size of a fucking observatory telescope. The head looks like a pinprick.
Jesus fucking christ.
WIN
Do we have to have a bloke called Planetside spreading blasphemy? :D
Headshots won't happen. In real life, you are so often referring, real snipers take headshots extremely rarely. Centre of mass shot is considered as kill shot most of the time. Mostly because of a simple hit probability.
The only way I'd be fine with headshots is if they include ALL physics. Just to name a few: wind, elevation, air temp, pressure, humidity, spin drift, magnus effect etc. etc.
And since they won't as it's not a sim (!), then I'm against 'pro' snipers like yourself ruining the game for everyone else.
Edit: ahh, you were faster @Firefly
Zulthus
2011-07-09, 09:00 PM
Not worth it.
^
Duddy
2011-07-09, 09:01 PM
The you guys talk about headshots is as if Im saying headshots will be available to each sniper and you wont do sacrifices...I am saying you are going to do lots of sacrifices and you wont be op.
How can you be op, when a regular sniper who doesnt do headshots will most likely kick your ass one on one.....?
It doesn't matter if another "normal" sniper can kick his ass.
If the "headshot" sniper can farm infantry with headshots it is not fair to the infantry.
Having a counter does not make it intrinsically balanced.
Vancha
2011-07-09, 09:05 PM
So they will suck sniping moving targets unless the guys is super amazing.
So straight away you've admitted headshots aren't for skillful players benefit (since moving targets are the "hard" targets). If headshots are nigh-impossible to land on moving targets, then you're saying headshots are for use against stationary targets, the main benefactors being the bad snipers who can only hit a still target.
Now non moving targets like u mentioned......Like I said ur accuracy is going to suck hard so each time u move ur gun, ur accuracy will screw up alot, the crosshairs wont be minimized for a while.
So while ur waiting to get ur gun to be accurate, a sniper can either kill u with a headshot or if he doesnt have headshot skill, hurt u and screw up your aim.
"A while" doesn't tell me much. You're going to need one hell of a slow resting crosshair to make that balanced. Almost impractically so.
Also, if an enemy sniper knows where you are, and you're waiting for your crosshair to rest on any target other than that sniper, you're doing something very wrong.
Also players will learn to move and not just camp.
Firing from behind cover is something I expect to exist in PS2. It may have faster-paced combat, but I doubt the front line will be changing so quickly that the majority of people never stop long enough for your "a while" crosshair to rest on their heads.
Edit: Aw damn. In the process of writing one of my overly lengthy replies, Firefly comes along and kills the guy.
Dreamcast
2011-07-09, 09:07 PM
It doesn't matter if another "normal" sniper can kick his ass.
If the "headshot" sniper can farm infantry with headshots it is not fair to the infantry.
Having a counter does not make it intrinsically balanced.
The thing is it will be hard....You specially when considering the other team has other snipers. So when the Headshot SNiper is aiming at infintry, a regular sniper would've just shot him......Also Infantry will learn to move around alittle bit more....Like I said the accuracy on the gun is going to be awful.
Do we have to have a bloke called Planetside spreading blasphemy? :D
Headshots won't happen. In real life, you are so often referring, real snipers take headshots extremely rarely. Centre of mass shot is considered as kill shot most of the time. Mostly because of a simple hit probability.
The only way I'd be fine with headshots is if they include ALL physics. Just to name a few: wind, elevation, air temp, pressure, humidity, spin drift, magnus effect etc. etc.
And since they won't as it's not a sim (!), then I'm against 'pro' snipers like yourself ruining the game for everyone else.
Edit: ahh, you were faster @Firefly
Read what the guy said that I quote....he mentioned Real Snipers use patience which PS1 simulates....I said Real Snipers who do headshots which are very hard to do which PS2 should replcate....I didn't say Sniper only do headshots, I said Sniper do them and they are hard so PS2 should do them hard.
Firefly
2011-07-09, 09:09 PM
Read what the guy said that I quote....he mentioned Real Snipers use patience which PS1 simulates....I said Real Snipers who do headshots which are very hard to do which PS2 should replcate....I didn't say Sniper only do headshots, I said Sniper do them and they are hard so PS2 should do them hard.
REAL FUCKING SNIPERS DO NOT FUCKING DO HEADSHOTS. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK FUCKING SKULL YOU GODDAMNED SACK OF KNUCKLES. STOP TRASHING MY FUCKING PROFESSION WITH YOUR HOLLYWOOD BULLSHIT.
Dreamcast
2011-07-09, 09:22 PM
So straight away you've admitted headshots aren't for skillful players benefit (since moving targets are the "hard" targets). If headshots are nigh-impossible to land on moving targets, then you're saying headshots are for use against stationary targets, the main benefactors being the bad snipers who can only hit a still target.
Moving targets will be hard to land a headshot on...Skillfull players could perhaps pull it off.
Bad Snipers who have Headshots who try to hit a sitting target will realize how long it takes to get good accuracy in the mean time, he will probably get shot at if he truly is a bad sniper since he will probably be in a bad spot.
"A while" doesn't tell me much. You're going to need one hell of a slow resting crosshair to make that balanced. Almost impractically so.
Also, if an enemy sniper knows where you are, and you're waiting for your crosshair to rest on any target other than that sniper, you're doing something very wrong. and if you are waiting to rest on that sniper, that sniper accuracy is so much better he would've shot you and made u have 1/3 of health meaning next shot you're dead.
"A while" will depend on what the developers test is best
REAL FUCKING SNIPERS DO NOT FUCKING DO HEADSHOTS. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK FUCKING SKULL YOU GODDAMNED SACK OF KNUCKLES. STOP TRASHING MY FUCKING PROFESSION WITH YOUR HOLLYWOOD BULLSHIT.
Let me rephrase that for you since I offended you so much Mr.Sniper
When people do headshots in realife is very hard to do.....So Planetside should replicated.
The point still being, headshots should be hard.
Is that better for you?
Gogita
2011-07-09, 09:25 PM
When people do headshots in realife is very hard to do.....So Planetside should replicated.
In real life guns need to be maintained well by cleaning the barrel and so on, should that also be simulated in Planetside just because it's realistic? No of course not! We do not care about realism if it will negatively impact gameplay.
Dreamcast
2011-07-09, 09:27 PM
In real life guns need to be maintained well by cleaning the barrel and so on, should that also be simulated in Planetside just because it's realistic? No of course not! We do not care about realism if it will negatively impact gameplay.
Except it wont negatively impact gameplay.
and yes Planetside should replicate that part of real life to make it headshots not be op.
Firefly
2011-07-09, 09:28 PM
When people do headshots in realife is very hard to do.....So Planetside should replicated.
The point still being, headshots should be hard.
Is that better for you?
Headshots in a video game like this should not exist. Period. The sooner you realize that and stop trying to compare with shit you saw in a movie or on TV or in some *** airsoft game, the better off everyone will be. Stop talking about real life sniping - it's making me want to punch kittens. And I fucking love kittens.
The hard part about sniping is that second shot. Bad snipers like myself can land the first one.
Headshots would be broken for good snipers and bad snipers alike.
NCLynx
2011-07-09, 09:32 PM
It can't be put any better than what Firefly said, this thread seriously needs to be closed.
Headshots in a video game like this should not exist. Period. The sooner you realize that and stop trying to compare with shit you saw in a movie or on TV or in some *** airsoft game, the better off everyone will be. Stop talking about real life sniping - it's making me want to punch kittens. And I fucking love kittens.
You don't need to harass him because you don't have the skills to pull off headshots in real life. Obviously Planetside has more experience and skills with a sniper than you.
Zargas
2011-07-09, 09:35 PM
You wanne be a real sniper?
ok, then aim for a leg, the chest area anywhere to make your enemies stop and tend to their wounded
Stomach is a good place due to pain and it is not good for moral to have a soldier crying while bleeding out
Killing your foe only takes one guy away, wounding one can remove up to a squad
Then move away from that location
Or
Walk for hours on end with a mate, spot on enemies for bomb runs or help your commander with info
Info is worth more then gold on a battlefield, live info even more
A sniper is not a lone wolf head shot killing machine
Firefly
2011-07-09, 09:36 PM
You don't need to harass him because you don't have the skills to pull off headshots in real life. Obviously Planetside has more experience and skills with a sniper than you.
I stand corrected. They should hire this kid - I mean, this Special Forces SEAL Operator - for QA strictly to fully vet all of the shooting mechanics.
Zulthus
2011-07-09, 09:37 PM
You don't need to harass him because you don't have the skills to pull off headshots in real life. Obviously Planetside has more experience and skills with a sniper than you.
Don't be a http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/7/73/20110128203738!Trollface.png
Vancha
2011-07-09, 09:39 PM
Moving targets will be hard to land a headshot on...Skillfull players could perhaps pull it off.
So in the space of an hour, we've gone from only the "super amazing" players landing headshots on moving targets, to "skillful" ones. That's a hell of a lot more headshots.
Bad Snipers who have Headshots who try to hit a sitting target will realize how long it takes to get good accuracy in the mean time, he will probably get shot at if he truly is a bad sniper since he will probably be in a bad spot.
and if you are waiting to rest on that sniper, that sniper accuracy is so much better he would've shot you and made u have 1/3 of health meaning next shot you're dead.
This is all moot. You've said a "skillful" player can headshot a moving target. If the crosshair rests quickly enough for a "skillful" player to headshot a moving target, it'll be OP against stationary ones, even in a newbie's hands.
Honestly, that's the end of the argument right there. If it rests fast enough to hit a moving target it'll be overpowered, and if it rests slowly enough to be balanced against stationary targets, it'll be basically pointless and the pros certainly won't need it.
SKYeXile
2011-07-09, 10:16 PM
current sniper rifle is fine, forget that headshots, perhaps give it 4 rounds in a clip with 1.5 seconds in-between shots and a log ass reload. that is all.
Rarntogo
2011-07-09, 11:11 PM
Sniper = Camper. I hate campers. Grow a set, get in the battle and die like the rest of us instead of camping on some hill where no one can see you hiding. A one shot kill from a half mile away has no place in gaming IMHO. In real battle it serves a purpose but when your playing a game for fun... the only one having any fun is the camper.
Aractain
2011-07-09, 11:20 PM
If any weapon with any hitbox delivers an instant kill on a full health level one (1) target I will give that Higby guy a very sternly written letter expressing my discontent and a photograph of me eyeing him disapointingly.
CutterJohn
2011-07-09, 11:31 PM
REAL FUCKING SNIPERS DO NOT FUCKING DO HEADSHOTS. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK FUCKING SKULL YOU GODDAMNED SACK OF KNUCKLES. STOP TRASHING MY FUCKING PROFESSION WITH YOUR HOLLYWOOD BULLSHIT.
Chill with the roid rage dude. Hollywood fucks everyones profession up. You're not a unique snowflake.
Death2All
2011-07-10, 12:02 AM
I can't believe this guy dares to name himself "Planetside" and the ideas he wants to implement are the complete opposite of what made Planetside great.
Are you that guy named "PSNext" or whatever on TR perhaps? Because that would clear A LOT up.
Vancha
2011-07-10, 12:12 AM
Sniper = Camper. I hate campers. Grow a set, get in the battle and die like the rest of us instead of camping on some hill where no one can see you hiding. A one shot kill from a half mile away has no place in gaming IMHO. In real battle it serves a purpose but when your playing a game for fun... the only one having any fun is the camper.
I snipe in bases.
Firefly
2011-07-10, 12:32 AM
n/t
Elude
2011-07-10, 02:08 AM
Extra hit boxes don't cause lag...
If you have problems with head shots because of lag then you had problems before with entire body shots with lag, the only difference is unregistered shots are more noticeable when aiming for the head because it's a smaller target.
I for one am against head shots, they just add an extra variable of luck into the mix which I don't want to deal with on either end. Hitting someone period has a small percentage of luck to it, adding head shots will only increase that.
You might as well tell the game to give you a critical damage boost when you aim high.
Extra hit boxes don't cause lag...
If you have problems with head shots because of lag then you had problems before with entire body shots with lag, the only difference is unregistered shots are more noticeable when aiming for the head because it's a smaller target.
I for one am against head shots, they just add an extra variable of luck into the mix which I don't want to deal with on either end. Hitting someone period has a small percentage of luck to it, adding head shots will only increase that.
You might as well tell the game to give you a critical damage boost when you aim high.
Lag as in server lag.
Senyu
2011-07-10, 02:19 AM
I'd support head shots being a sniper myself. Make them hard sure and perhaps bullet curve over distance which would make it more challenging and satisyfing when I do pop someones head. It will give players who are actually skilled another way to shine in the game.
And for all complaining, this is PS2. It's gona be different.
Sirisian
2011-07-10, 02:29 AM
Lag as in server lag.
nah that wouldn't do anything. Physics is generally done using hierarchical bounding boxes. That is you check against the full body (generally a capsule or cylinder or axis-aligned boundary box) then if that test is true you do more fine grained tests. This is a general misconception about the BFRs also that the extra hitbox caused "lag".
I already expressed my thoughts in the dedicated headshot (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35881) thread that I already linked. It shows quite clearly everyone's thoughts on the subject. The people that wanted OSOK are a very very tiny minority. (Not that they aren't loud). I thought the argument was already brought to a conclusion before, but I guess not.
Senyu
2011-07-10, 02:44 AM
Sniper = Camper. I hate campers. Grow a set, get in the battle and die like the rest of us instead of camping on some hill where no one can see you hiding. A one shot kill from a half mile away has no place in gaming IMHO. In real battle it serves a purpose but when your playing a game for fun... the only one having any fun is the camper.
And the only one having fun with a Jackhammer is the noob who uses it.
Anyways deal with it. Sniping is part of the game. And I use it in bases as well when charging. It isn't just something for faraway
Grimster
2011-07-10, 02:45 AM
Well here is my 2 cents.
I will admit that sniping has not been one of my major activities in Planetside but I have done it to some extent. What I enjoyed about sniping is that you could make it effective if you teamed up with a mate and coordinated your shots through voice com. This is something that in my opinion emphasizes(spelling?) team work and headshots would completely kill this.
The second thing is that hitbox for headshots has always and will always be a major cheat magnet.
Death2All
2011-07-10, 02:59 AM
If headshots are implemented in PS2 it will ultimately be the death of the game.
If there are supposed to be huge battles with hundreds of players shooting at everyone in inevitability of being shot in the face would happen so much you'd die almost constantly. Even if it's limited to snipers only I'm still against it. No one weapon should be a one shot kill. That is idiotic.
CutterJohn
2011-07-10, 03:11 AM
No one weapon should be a one shot kill. That is idiotic.
Triple shot killed everything under rexo.
Many things killed cloakers in one shot.
There were a variety of vehicle weapons with 1 shot kills vs infantry, with an extreme amount of splash.
Snipers with headshots wouldn't kill the game. There would be a few more snipers, for both sides. People would just have to learn to not sit still.
All I care about snipers is that they don't grossly outrange everything else. Rifles should be viable at countering them, like in the BF games.
opticalshadow
2011-07-10, 03:31 AM
dont want head shots, dont want the hitbox. sniping was fine is planetside for what it did, and the last thing i really want is to have to deal with one hit kills from distences i cant even see, its an anti fun mechanic.
DviddLeff
2011-07-10, 04:09 AM
I want head shots.
Head shots even the playing field, so a guy with even just a pistol can take someone out quickly if they are lucky/skilled enough. Head shots do not have to be one hit kills; they could just be double the damage.
MAX armour would still need a number of shots, even bolt driver shots to the face to take out.
I want prone.
It adds a great deal of tactics to the game. Using the ground itself as cover to make yourself a smaller target as you advance, or hiding behind small pieces of cover. It also allows you to check around corners without exposing too much of yourself, especially useful in urban combat. It also allows snipers to no longer rely on ridge sniping to protect themselves; a tactic rarely used in reality as it outlines the sniper against the sky.
I want head shots.
Head shots even the playing field, so a guy with even just a pistol can take someone out quickly if they are lucky/skilled enough. Head shots do not have to be one hit kills; they could just be double the damage.
MAX armour would still need a number of shots, even bolt driver shots to the face to take out.
I want prone.
It adds a great deal of tactics to the game. Using the ground itself as cover to make yourself a smaller target as you advance, or hiding behind small pieces of cover. It also allows you to check around corners without exposing too much of yourself, especially useful in urban combat. It also allows snipers to no longer rely on ridge sniping to protect themselves; a tactic rarely used in reality as it outlines the sniper against the sky.
Yes we really need instant prone like COD that would just add so much tactical depth to ps
and if you honestly think a pistol user should be on equal footing with a HA user then I don't know what to say to you. If I can two shot someone with an accurate pistol I don't honestly see why I'd ever want an to use inaccurate MCG.
Headshots have no place in planetside, plain and simple. I play planetside to play planetside, not generic COD shooter #4
DviddLeff
2011-07-10, 04:29 AM
Who said I wanted instant prone? I sure as hell don't want dolphin diving from BF2 back! To go prone and to get back up should take a couple of seconds, and you shouldn't be able to shoot accurately whatsoever during that time.
Head shots have a place in almost every FPS out there; Planetside needs them to make the masses feel the game is similar to that they have played before.
and if you honestly think a pistol user should be on equal footing with a HA user then I don't know what to say to you. If I can two shot someone with an accurate pistol I don't honestly see why I'd ever want an to use inaccurate MCG. - Bags
The pistol would have a smaller clip, lower damage per shot and less range; the MCG would and does spit out enough bullets to take someone out in a little over a second already even without good aim; the pistol user would have to nail you at least twice right in the head to even stand a chance.
Who said I wanted instant prone? I sure as hell don't want dolphin diving from BF2 back! To go prone and to get back up should take a couple of seconds, and you shouldn't be able to shoot accurately whatsoever during that time.
Head shots have a place in almost every FPS out there; Planetside needs them to make the masses feel the game is similar to that they have played before.
The pistol would have a smaller clip, lower damage per shot and less range; the MCG would and does spit out enough bullets to take someone out in a little over a second already even without good aim; the pistol user would have to nail you at least twice right in the head to even stand a chance.
Sure in the hands of two noobs it's MCG hands down but give them to pros and headshots aren't terribly difficult to come by.
Remember, PS2 weapons are more lethal than PS1 weapons. so I imagine with headshots 2 - 3 shots will kill if it's not one shot one kill.
People aren't going to not play PS2 because it doesn't have headshots :/
Do you realise how much extra development time implementing camping feature like prone takes?
This is mostly to do with clipping issues etc.
This thread is almost 6 pages long and there's only two people who want it. I think we should safely assume they're not going to be in and stop wasting time on the issue ;-)
Lunarchild
2011-07-10, 08:50 AM
Do you realise how much extra development time implementing camping feature like prone takes?
Let's see (per type of armor that can be prone, up to):
Design: 2 - 4 hours*
Code: 1 hour
Animation: 4 hours**
Testing: 4-400 hours***
Done ^^
That is just basic prone state however. If you want to add the "dive-to-prone", quadruple all times.
*: After the decision has been made to add/test prone
**: Animations for shared rigs can take significantly less time, after the first has been created.
***: Testing time is shared with other tests
Aractain
2011-07-10, 08:53 AM
We don't mean Earthrise style development....
Vancha
2011-07-10, 10:41 AM
Well after the Reddit Q&A it sounds like PS2 is going to have hitboxes of some kind. Whether it's for troops he didn't say.
The only type of headshots I can think of that wouldn't be detrimental to the enjoyment of the game would be similar to the mini-crits in TF2, but then that's still a game with TTK closer to Planetside 1...
Checowsky
2011-07-10, 11:37 AM
Balance comes first. Snipers should not get headshots, I'm gunna be sniping in PS2 but I don't want headshots.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/Taunau/GolBC2.jpg
I'll play BC2 or BF3 if I want that stuff.
Well after the Reddit Q&A it sounds like PS2 is going to have hitboxes of some kind. Whether it's for troops he didn't say.
The only type of headshots I can think of that wouldn't be detrimental to the enjoyment of the game would be similar to the mini-crits in TF2, but then that's still a game with TTK closer to Planetside 1...
That was an imposter BTW. Matt hasn't said anything about hitboxes. Matt stopped posting at 9:50 est. Matt is Las0m not Ias0m.
Vancha
2011-07-10, 01:03 PM
That was an imposter BTW. Matt hasn't said anything about hitboxes. Matt stopped posting at 9:50 est. Matt is Las0m not Ias0m.
Will there be meaningful Day/Night Cycles?
Will Hitboxes become important in PS2?
the engine supports day/night cycle really, really well. We definitely want to take advantage of that.
yes
That was from Matt, not the imposter.
That was from Matt, not the imposter.
Oh, I thought he ignored that question. Good catch. Ddin't see the "yes".
Robert089
2011-07-10, 01:55 PM
I hope there are no infantry instagib weapons... I can say with confidence that I spend more time sniping in this game than most players and adding headshots is something I don't want to see in Planetside. It's less to do with balance and more to do with how fucking frustrating it would be to get killed instantly without any warning.
Instead of thinking about balance for once think about what's fun, I personally find it more fun to take that first shot and plan ahead for the second shot. It's actually challenging, moving my cursor up a few pixels to get a headshot isn't. The player getting sniped will not have fun if they don't have a chance to evade / fight back.
Tikuto
2011-07-10, 02:10 PM
No. No. No. No.
No headshots is one of the few things the majority of the playerbase agrees on.http://images.mylot.com/userImages/images/postphotos/2222325.jpg
And there's no need for prone.Not sure... Cover system in most games don't ever seem to work properly very well.
Gwartham
2011-07-10, 02:11 PM
Hate to argue with you firefly.
I aint a sniper, but know a few.
You might wanna ask a few what a "apricot" is.
I give you aint nobody aiming for this at 1000m, or in a run and gun fight.
razor851
2011-07-10, 02:16 PM
Headshots are bad. Prone is bad. You're bad.
Gwartham
2011-07-10, 02:24 PM
While I also agree that headshots are bad form in pside, we will also have to see how much they decrease TTK before we can really make any assumptions on whether or not someone should be able to "1 shot" someone.
That being said I always looked at sniping in pside to be a team based tactic. I always worked with a buddy or 2 to drop our target, and I always liked that aspect of it. Much like the concept of a shooter and a spotter working together.
I am against any soldier weapon that is a one-hit-kill. Think about it this way. The quicker it is to kill people, the harder it is to move around in the open. If 1-hit-kills are easy, you will see people hiding behind base walls instead of getting out into the action. People living longer makes for more exciting battles with more people running around instead of dying as soon as they poke their heads out of cover.
In Planetside, snipers still had a role, although they could not instantly pick people off from afar like in Battlefield or COD.
Cadiras
2011-07-10, 02:53 PM
Here's a comparison to make: they have already said several times that aircraft are going to be incredibly challenging to fly and will take hundreds of hours of practice to fully master, thus making skilled pilots in high demand for PS2.
Now what if this was the same for sniping? Say they put headshots in for sniping, but they're incredibly hard to pull off and require players to gain the skills from the skill tree necessary for things like steady aim, prone mode, or maybe even make headshots a skill you have to earn first. This way it would take a large amount of dedication for someone to actually be a decent sniper.
Just a thought, not really taking sides at all here.
Gwartham
2011-07-10, 03:00 PM
In Planetside, snipers still had a role,
To be honest tho not much of one. I cant recall the last time I was picked off by a sniper. Unless they worked on groups they are pretty weak.
Gandhi
2011-07-10, 03:02 PM
...
For me personally it's kind of missing the point. The problem I have with headshots is that nothing is more frustrating than moving yourself over to the front line, only to be instakilled by some guy hiding behind a rock that you can't even see. If it takes more than one hit then I at least have a chance to respond, look for cover, shoot back, anything. Even if only one in every 100 snipers can pull off headshots it's still a bad game mechanic, and it'll become more and more common as more people train into it.
I mean, imagine if a fully skilled Reaver could pull off one hit kills on infantry. You're running along at full health, then suddenly you're dead. The fact that it takes a long time to train into is small consolation when you're on the receiving end of that. It's just not fun.
Dreamcast
2011-07-10, 04:11 PM
For me personally it's kind of missing the point. The problem I have with headshots is that nothing is more frustrating than moving yourself over to the front line, only to be instakilled by some guy hiding behind a rock that you can't even see. If it takes more than one hit then I at least have a chance to respond, look for cover, shoot back, anything. Even if only one in every 100 snipers can pull off headshots it's still a bad game mechanic, and it'll become more and more common as more people train into it.
I mean, imagine if a fully skilled Reaver could pull off one hit kills on infantry. You're running along at full health, then suddenly you're dead. The fact that it takes a long time to train into is small consolation when you're on the receiving end of that. It's just not fun.
If headshots are going to be available and be hard to do, the guys who are going to get headshotted are the snipers in most cases.
Gwartham
2011-07-10, 04:15 PM
If headshots are going to be available and be hard to do, the guys who are going to get headshotted are the snipers in most cases.
I get where your coming from, takes a sniper to kill a sniper line of thinking.
I would be all for headshots if the technology was up to par to justify it.
In other words, I want things like player drift, windage, elevation, and radiation in the game for the sniper before I would allow headshots heh.
BF2 was a start, I liked it at first untill I realized that once again the hitbox for the head using a sniper rifle was just plain huge and it didnt matter if I held my xhair 1 tick or 3 ticks above the guy, I would still get a headshot.
Firefly
2011-07-10, 04:26 PM
Hate to argue with you firefly.
I aint a sniper, but know a few.
You might wanna ask a few what a "apricot" is.
I give you aint nobody aiming for this at 1000m, or in a run and gun fight.
I know what the apricot is. That's SWAT or special police "snipers", and I consider them designated marksmen (I was waiting for someone to call me on that). Putting a "scope" on a bolt-action rifle and wearing a funny mask doesn't make you a sniper. I don't consider them snipers. They're shooting from relatively close ranges, in the 100-300 metre range. In that case, a headshot is still a tricky shot but is much MUCH more likely to succeed because in my sights a head is going to appear a helluva lot larger at 100 metres. So yes, SWAT marksmen on rare occasion might make a headshot but I'd imagine they'd want to refrain from doing so except in extreme cases... makes identifying a real bitch. And like I said... not snipers. Not in my book. Just like I don't consider every hooah in uniform to be combat FMC. It's just a personal point of view, mind you. Because I'm an asshole.
The Army teaches every soldier to qualify at ranges of 25m to 300m in CBT. So basically, an 18yr old Private E-1 fucking FINANCE CLERK can hit shit at 300 metres with her iron sights. When I was a PFC operating a SAW, I could ding a chest-sized target at 800 metres with iron sights and eyeballs. I lol'd at the so-called DC Sniper's media-given nickname. Consider me unimpressed by shooting shit at 100-300 metres with a fucking "scope". At under 300 metres I like to call them aimbots. Sorry. The average Billybob Deerhunter can do that and I bet you his shit isn't even zeroed properly.
artifice
2011-07-10, 04:40 PM
I believe there should be headshots for all weapons.
Triple shot killed everything under rexo.
Many things killed cloakers in one shot.
There were a variety of vehicle weapons with 1 shot kills vs infantry, with an extreme amount of splash.
Snipers with headshots wouldn't kill the game. There would be a few more snipers, for both sides. People would just have to learn to not sit still.
All I care about snipers is that they don't grossly outrange everything else. Rifles should be viable at countering them, like in the BF games.
Quoting this for emphasis.
I believe there should be headshots for all weapons.
Quoting this for emphasis.
The only hard part about sniping in PS is the second shot. If you remove the need for a second shot you remove all skill in sniping.
Vancha
2011-07-10, 04:42 PM
If headshots are going to be available and be hard to do, the guys who are going to get headshotted are the snipers in most cases.
:bang:
The only hard part about sniping in PS is the second shot. If you remove the need for a second shot you remove all skill in sniping.
Do you think people wanting headshots are looking after 'skill'? Really? ;-)
Firefly
2011-07-10, 04:44 PM
:bang:
LMAO.
If headshots are going to be available and be hard to do, the guys who are going to get headshotted are the snipers in most cases.
See, if you like sniping other snipers, then BF:BC2 is the way to go.
Usually more snipers than anyone else in there.
(and funnily enough - I can predict which team's going to win based on the amount of snipers per team)
artifice
2011-07-10, 04:45 PM
The only hard part about sniping in PS is the second shot. If you remove the need for a second shot you remove all skill in sniping.
Two shots for non-headshots. If the hit box is small, I don't see the problem. I believe that it is always good to benefit players who are more skillful. Simply aiming for the center mass doesn't take as much skill as aiming for the head.
crunchBWZ
2011-07-10, 04:50 PM
I think there will be head shots in PS2, whether I want it or not I don't know. But we can at least understand that having head shots does not mean one hit kill, even though in many modern FPS games a head shot does kill in one hit. The devs are trying to bring PS2 to the masses while fulfilling the wishes of the long time players. I'm pretty sure they'll include headshots even if they are just for indexing or statistic purposes.
Two shots for non-headshots. If the hit box is small, I don't see the problem. I believe that it is always good to benefit players who are more skillful. Simply aiming for the center mass doesn't take as much skill as aiming for the head.
Neither takes skill if the target isn't moving.
Two shots for non-headshots. If the hit box is small, I don't see the problem. I believe that it is always good to benefit players who are more skillful. Simply aiming for the center mass doesn't take as much skill as aiming for the head.
I'm sure setting sights on, for example tower door, head height is very difficult and requires a lot of skill.
I'm also sure people getting one-shotted all the time will form a very happy customer base.
Gwartham
2011-07-10, 05:00 PM
If theres physics or prep behind the shot I would consider it.
Face it in most FPS games the trajectory of the bullet is flat, has no physics.
I remember in the early days of CS, I could just run around blasting people away with the awp because I noticed there were absolutely no physics at all so I just put a small red sticker on my screen where the gun would fire from a hipshot :D
artifice
2011-07-10, 05:00 PM
Neither takes skill if the target isn't moving.
Not true at all. I have seen games where the hitbox is the actual size of the head and it is not always a guaranteed hit because people rarely stay perfectly still. It is certainly a lot more difficult than the games with a larger hitbox.
Since Planetside 2 is going to have denser foliage than the original, it will give a lot more incentive to sit in foliage and out of view of strategic areas where snipers are. Snipers also give incentive to stay on the move.
Snipers are military assets. All sides are going to have them, so in that sense they are balanced. Think of it compared to any other military asset like aircraft. There will be counter measures for it such as your own snipers.
Can we stop comparing PlanetSide to real life?
In real life, you don't go to army and say 'Can I haz sniper rifle lol! Ima pro and I gunna headshot ya'll rofl!'.
Snipers take years to train and are a very valuable tactical asset. There aren't many of them, too. And they're certainly not used to go and killwhore on the enemy. They are there to provide recon first and shoot stuff second. (to put simply).
In PS anyone can be a sniper, which means everyone has long range capability. Giving too much power to that will ensure even more snipers, to counter snipers.
I don't think anyone wants to turn PS2 into SniperSide or PlanetSnipe.
Dreamcast
2011-07-10, 05:11 PM
I get where your coming from, takes a sniper to kill a sniper line of thinking.
I would be all for headshots if the technology was up to par to justify it.
In other words, I want things like player drift, windage, elevation, and radiation in the game for the sniper before I would allow headshots heh.
BF2 was a start, I liked it at first untill I realized that once again the hitbox for the head using a sniper rifle was just plain huge and it didnt matter if I held my xhair 1 tick or 3 ticks above the guy, I would still get a headshot.
I understand...I would like if some of that was available buts thats why I mentioned soem other ideas.
Since SOE said that making a gun more accurate would mean the gun get weaker then do the same with a sniper design for headshots.
Example...Worse accuracy,worst recoil,2 or 3 ammo per clip, longer reload time, and make body hits really weak so if the sniper miss and hits the body, he wont do lots of damage....Also if the bullet curves over distance, that will make it harder.
Redshift
2011-07-10, 05:17 PM
To be honest tho not much of one. I cant recall the last time I was picked off by a sniper. Unless they worked on groups they are pretty weak.
bullshit, i regularly take out tank drivers that are repping, Eng's bringing the turrets up, AV users from the walls, blow a v-pad and stop it being repped, you can clear AA maxes easy enough if you can be arsed
artifice
2011-07-10, 05:18 PM
bullshit, i regularly take out tank drivers that are repping, Eng's bringing the turrets up, AV users from the walls, blow a v-pad and stop it being repped, you can clear AA maxes easy enough if you can be arsed
So you are calling him a liar based on your anecdotal evidence?
I don't die to snipers a lot, but I sure get hit a lot by them.
Gwartham
2011-07-10, 05:32 PM
bullshit, i regularly take out tank drivers that are repping, Eng's bringing the turrets up, AV users from the walls, blow a v-pad and stop it being repped, you can clear AA maxes easy enough if you can be arsed
Sorry bud, but I just finished up my 45 days free bit, and I seriously cannot recall a single death from a sniper.
Oh and I run around in agile.
DviddLeff
2011-07-10, 05:44 PM
I got killed by snipers twice today :(
Gwartham
2011-07-10, 05:48 PM
I got killed by snipers twice today :(
Stop waving at them.:eek:
Redshift
2011-07-10, 06:21 PM
So you are calling him a liar based on your anecdotal evidence?
He's claiming a sniper can't effect the battlefield i'm giving him examples of where i know i have effected a battle in a decent sized way while sniping, now will you kindly stfu please
Gwartham
2011-07-10, 06:26 PM
Heh, a lone sniper in planet side in my opinion does very little to sway a battle.
99% of the time your quite visible, just generally too far outta a grunts range to do anything about it, other then call in his mossy buddy to ping ya down.
You simply don't have enough lethality solo to do much more then harass most people.
Forsaken One
2011-07-10, 06:33 PM
headshots are NOT needed.
Snipers were fine in PS1 they needed teamwork at the very least.
The ONLY person who ever has fun when it comes to sniping is the Sniper. everyone else hates him.
So many games becomes Snipefests that its stupid.
and headshots ruin games as a whole and make the game competitive. When a game becomes competitive all true balance is thrown out the window in favor of "skill" and "overall stupidity"
take a look at something like CSs. everyone ether use's the Deagle or a sniper. no one ever bothers with the assault guns or the MG. Because the Deagle and Sniper are easier to headshot with and 1 headshot=kill.
Take a look at combat arms. (I think this is the right game.) Everyone whores snipers and the G60c. why? because of headshots.
Headshots blow all balance away and makes non headshot weapons useless.
Also you can never balance Skill. Then the game becomes retarded where you ether do what is "skilled" or you get farmed/uninstall the game. There will be no option or choice to use this gun, or this armor or whatever. You'll only be able to use what the "skilled" people are or auto lose because the guns aren't balanced to counter such things and never can be.
Heh, a lone sniper in planet side in my opinion does very little to sway a battle.
99% of the time your quite visible, just generally too far outta a grunts range to do anything about it, other then call in his mossy buddy to ping ya down.
You simply don't have enough lethality solo to do much more then harass most people.
In case you haven't noticed it's not a game designed to cater for solo players.
There is no place for snipers capable of soloing whole squads with 1337 headshots.
Redshift
2011-07-10, 06:36 PM
Heh, a lone sniper in planet side in my opinion does very little to sway a battle.
99% of the time your quite visible, just generally too far outta a grunts range to do anything about it, other then call in his mossy buddy to ping ya down.
You simply don't have enough lethality solo to do much more then harass most people.
Stopping a vpad from being repaired is a massive change to a battle and i've done it loads of times, and tbh air chav isn't a massive issue if you're smart where you sit, nothing you can't avoid with some CE, unless you're literally sitting in the middle of no where on your own
Gwartham
2011-07-10, 06:38 PM
In case you haven't noticed it's not a game designed to cater for solo players.
There is no place for snipers capable of soloing whole squads with 1337 headshots.
Thanks for sharing that I guess.
Dunno why you decided to quote my post for that but thanks anyways?
Anyways that was kinda in a way my point; they lack lethality to be much more then a long distance nuisance in Pside.
Didn't say I wanted to make em any different, just stating what I see as the obvious.
why should someone who will never be damaged by any weapon other than a sniper rifle at that range be anything more than support / a nuisance?
artifice
2011-07-10, 06:53 PM
headshots are NOT needed.
Snipers were fine in PS1 they needed teamwork at the very least.
The ONLY person who ever has fun when it comes to sniping is the Sniper. everyone else hates him.
So many games becomes Snipefests that its stupid.
and headshots ruin games as a whole and make the game competitive. When a game becomes competitive all true balance is thrown out the window in favor of "skill" and "overall stupidity"
take a look at something like CSs. everyone ether use's the Deagle or a sniper. no one ever bothers with the assault guns or the MG. Because the Deagle and Sniper are easier to headshot with and 1 headshot=kill.
Take a look at combat arms. (I think this is the right game.) Everyone whores snipers and the G60c. why? because of headshots.
Headshots blow all balance away and makes non headshot weapons useless.
Also you can never balance Skill. Then the game becomes retarded where you ether do what is "skilled" or you get farmed/uninstall the game. There will be no option or choice to use this gun, or this armor or whatever. You'll only be able to use what the "skilled" people are or auto lose because the guns aren't balanced to counter such things and never can be.
You can't compare a single game and go "Aha! See? Snipers are overpowered!" That is a very blatant fallacy because not all games handle sniper rifles as Counter Strike does. Halo 1 had a nice balance and most people did not use the sniper rifle. Head shots took skill to pull off because the hit box was small.
why should someone who will never be damaged by any weapon other than a sniper rifle at that range be anything more than support / a nuisance?
So the various vehicles don't have a similar advantage?
NCLynx
2011-07-10, 06:58 PM
Not sure if this argument has been brought up, but in the Q&A Higby said hitboxes will be more important in PS2. I'm hoping that's not a hint to there being headshots.
*cry*
From top of my head, Halo maps were mostly small or tiny, where range didn't really matter.
Compare it to PS where you can have a bloke 2x as far as your rifle range 1-shotting people - that's the problem.
artifice
2011-07-10, 07:03 PM
*cry*
From top of my head, Halo maps were mostly small or tiny, where range didn't really matter.
Compare it to PS where you can have a bloke 2x as far as your rifle range 1-shotting people - that's the problem.
You remember wrong.
Here is a good look at a Halo map from the point of view of an extremely good sniper.
YouTube - ***x202a;Halo Sniping School***x202c;‏
And you want that in planetside? :rofl::lol::huh:
I stand corrected, the map is tiny. The ranges here don't exceed courtyard fighting really.
Redshift
2011-07-10, 07:05 PM
That halo vid is the exact reason why there shouldn't be 1 shot sniper rifles
Forsaken One
2011-07-10, 07:09 PM
Art you only prove my point. If I ever saw that kind of twitch monkey shit in a game I would uninstall and throw the disk out my window. As the game wouldn't even be worth the time to get up and put it in the trash.
artifice
2011-07-10, 07:09 PM
And you want that in planetside? :rofl::lol::huh:
I stand corrected, the map is tiny. The ranges here don't exceed courtyard fighting really.
You were whining about 2x the range of of a rifle.
You were whining about 2x the range of of a rifle.
Your point?
What I pointed out is, that in PS, sniper ranges are ~2x as long as rifle range. Meaning that if you add headshotting, there won't be a way to counter it, unless risking a 200m jog to get in range.
2-3 snipers would be effectively able to lock whole bases.
artifice
2011-07-10, 07:14 PM
Art you only prove my point. If I ever saw that kind of twitch monkey shit in a game I would uninstall and throw the disk out my window. As the game wouldn't even be worth the time to get up and put it in the trash.
That's goofy. Halo isn't Planetside. Halo has a specific play style and run and gun is what it is. That sniper was good. It is hard to move and snipe. Most people did not use the sniper rifle, and most who did were lousy at it.
Lunarchild
2011-07-10, 07:18 PM
May I remind all of you that sniper riffles one-shot in planetside as well? Sure it's only again infils, but hey!
I don't see anything wrong with head-shots being in. I'm not saying those should be 1-shot kills. Those guys have very advanced helmets, that are sure to stop 1 sniper bullet before caving ^^
Sifer2
2011-07-10, 07:21 PM
We discussed this a good bit earlier this year I remember. My thoughts are the same as they were then.
Headshots are a bad idea cause it favors some weapon types over others. Spray an Pray weaponry gets a huge buff the higher the headshot bonus damage is. That is unless the accuracy cone is greatly toned down in PS2. Then its the opposite you want a heavy hitter so you can instagib folks with easy to aim headshots. It also screws up close range combat. Since spraying for the head will kill as fast as close range weapons most likely. Oh an that Halo vid brings back bad memories. I hate the Halo Sniper Rifle its so crazy imbalanced. If there is only one on map usually team that gets it first wins every time.
As for Prone. I would say it depends on the accuracy cone in PS2. If we are more accurate then Prone would be ok. If not then it may slow down the action too much making people too hard to hit.
Redshift
2011-07-10, 07:21 PM
That's goofy. Halo isn't Planetside. Halo has a specific play style and run and gun is what it is. That sniper was good. It is hard to move and snipe. Most people did not use the sniper rifle, and most who did were lousy at it.
yes but as much fun as that good sniper was having he was ruing the fun of the whole other team, you don't want that in PS where you can't just get a new match in 5 mins, you'll be living with him forever.
Things which ruin many peoples fun are removed or nerfed i.e the flail
and lunarchild it didn't really matter that you could one shot infils as the cloak was their defense, it was annoying to get hit by a round that was meant for someone else but it didn't really happen that often
Forsaken One
2011-07-10, 07:22 PM
That's goofy. Halo isn't Planetside. Halo has a specific play style and run and gun is what it is. That sniper was good. It is hard to move and snipe. Most people did not use the sniper rifle, and most who did were lousy at it.
You seem to misunderstand me. I do not care how much of a monkey that person is to have such hand-eye. The fact that the game allows him to pull such monkey level shit is what would make me trash it.
Gwartham
2011-07-10, 07:23 PM
Anyone remember the old Sniper Elite game?
If sniping was more like that it would almost be justified.
artifice
2011-07-10, 07:37 PM
You seem to misunderstand me. I do not care how much of a monkey that person is to have such hand-eye. The fact that the game allows him to pull such monkey level shit is what would make me trash it.
No, I understand you perfectly. No one is asking for twitch gameplay so what you say is pointless. The point is the size of the hitbox. That was the only thing I was referencing Halo for.
Other aspects of sniping in a realistic and slower paced sense is breathing of the character while looking through a scope that is then reduced by laying prone. and the impossibility of running when in looking through a scope due to the constant motion. A sniper would also be relatively weak if confronted 1 on 1 due to a weak weapon load out for close combat and weak armor.
Dreamcast
2011-07-10, 07:47 PM
Your point?
What I pointed out is, that in PS, sniper ranges are ~2x as long as rifle range. Meaning that if you add headshotting, there won't be a way to counter it, unless risking a 200m jog to get in range.
2-3 snipers would be effectively able to lock whole bases.
No they won't......You will have snipers..they will take care of them.
Since headshotting is going to be very hard, even in a made up scenerio where is just you and a headshot sniper, you can still run cover to cover and he most likely wont get you....Since if he hits u in the body he will do minimal damage since headshot snipers dont do lots of damage to the body.
So there is no way a Sniper will lock whole base.
Infact headshot snipping will be worst for snipers, not infintry.
PS1 snipping takes no risk...You get shot then u heal and ur right where u were at snipping infintry.
So yeah it actually is going to make snipers less focus on infintry.
That halo vid is the exact reason why there shouldn't be 1 shot sniper rifles
And is going to be exactly the opposite of halo if you read my OP.
If you want to be have headshots with sniper....First ur going to have to get it with the skill tree then your accuracy,recoil,ammo per clip(2 or 3 bullets),reload time,etc will all be effected greatly...not to mention if you hit them in the body, it wont do much damage compared to snipers.
You see the trade offs?.....headshots snipers won't be the best sniper!...Regular PS1 Snipers will be in Most circustances,
Deppening on what you want to do, regular snipers will still own infintry specially when there moving targets......
Regular snipers will own Headshot snipers if they see them first because of there better accuracy.....understand?
Nobody is calling for a OP Headshot sniper.
Redshift
2011-07-10, 07:52 PM
You see the trade offs?.....headshots snipers won't be the best sniper!...Regular PS1 Snipers will be in Most circustances,
since you seem to only understand big text....
1 shot kills are lame, headshot snipers, no matter how difficult will be lame for everyone except the sniper
Rbstr
2011-07-10, 07:58 PM
Why do headshots have to equal one hit kills in all circumstances?
I just want a shot to the hand to be less important than a domer or something centermass.
I think I read in the reddit thread they were going to have hitboxing to some extent.
"WAAAA SERVER LAG" especially, doesn't hold up as an argument anymore, TBFH. Computers are orders of magnitude faster than they were with the original.
Dreamcast
2011-07-10, 08:03 PM
since you seem to only understand big text....
1 shot kills are lame, headshot snipers, no matter how difficult will be lame for everyone except the sniper
No they are not.....Finally there is consequences for snipers....
Biggest person effected by this are snipers.....Not infantry.
No they are not.....Finally there is consequences for snipers....
Biggest person effected by this are snipers.....Not infantry.
How come headshotting people left right and centre is a consequence to snipers? :o
You're going to have so many kills it's going to crash the server?
Gandhi
2011-07-10, 08:07 PM
No they are not.....Finally there is consequences for snipers....
Biggest person effected by this are snipers.....Not infantry.
Alright then, how about we agree on headshots against other snipers but regular 2 hit minimum for all other classes save the infiltrator? I think that's a good compromise, no?
Forsaken One
2011-07-10, 08:13 PM
Alright then, how about we agree on headshots against other snipers but regular 2 hit minimum for all other classes save the infiltrator? I think that's a good compromise, no?
only if there is no way to see the infiltrator for the sniper. (aka no thermal scopes/whatever.) but that might be acceptable. then they can only lame each other.
Lunarchild
2011-07-10, 08:15 PM
Alright then, how about we agree on headshots against other snipers but regular 2 hit minimum for all other classes save the infiltrator? I think that's a good compromise, no?
How about this: Headshots on those without helmets? Then it's like in planetside based on the armor type you are using. Let's say that most people will have a helmet as default equipment, and you're done :)
This way you can create meaningful exceptions: I get X when using this armor, but it does not have a helmet, so I will be easier to hit by snipers.
Or: If you shoot a nimble infantry with jet-pack on the jet-pack with a sniper riffle it'll cause him to explode in one hit. Likely a very hard thing to do, because most of the times they'll be coming right at you, or they might be flying to dodge your sniper, but if you get them on that vital piece of equipment, I do believe that the shooter deserves the kill.
It's all a balance in the end that the development team needs to make, but it gives them a bit more breath to play with.
Dreamcast
2011-07-10, 08:20 PM
How come headshotting people left right and centre is a consequence to snipers? :o
You're going to have so many kills it's going to crash the server?
Because there not going to be able to do that...Already said it like a million times is going to be hard to headshot people.
And said it regular snipers>Headshot snipers in most circumstances
Alright then, how about we agree on headshots against other snipers but regular 2 hit minimum for all other classes save the infiltrator? I think that's a good compromise, no?
Hmmmmmm sounds good....I wouldn't mind that at all actually.
It will actually make snipers get headshots easier according to u but it will only work against snipers.....
My idea will be hard for headshots but I wouldn't mind ur idea tho.
Coyote
2011-07-10, 08:36 PM
Hello folks! Plan on posting abit more now that PS2 has been announced, have been lurking for quite some time now. If I may:
To whom said the "Halo sniper rifle" is not used alot. As someone that has been playing Halo PC, 2, 3, and Reach online at various times throughout the years. I can say that people are still teamkilling eachother and camping the Sniper Rifle spawn in lines to get a chance at the Sniper Rifle.
Getting a completely separate game out of the topic now and changing back to Planetside...
Planetside has always been a game of "I can see them but I can't kill them", whereas you can clearly see your enemy, but you'll need to plan stuff out right if you actually intend to kill them. I've been a firm believer that the Planetside way of sniping has been extremely successful. In any given game with any given set of rules, requirements, or playstyles. If there is a class with a sniper rifle and headshots are 1-hit kills. 71.2% of your players will become snipers. I believe it is a law, actually. As proven by the fact that every popular FPS game's player submitted videos on youtube are nothing but Sniper montages.
Seeing as nobody has introduced horribly drawn pictures yet. I feel that it is my job to do this. Right now I feel PS runs as such:
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4056/sniperps1.png
Currently, the system works and stuff (mostly) gets done. People support eachother most of the time, and while certain roles will never be filled (looking at you medics....Wait. I'm a medic, how does that work?), I feel the game is at least always progressing.
Now, if headshots were implemented for snipers only with no bulletphysics (not even emulated stuff like BC2) I foresee:
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6065/sniperps2.png
As you can see. Nothing it getting done and people only care about Kills:Deaths. Nobody seems to give a darn about anything and the team effort is now gone. Everyone is lazy (why move across bases when I can shoot you from right here?) and I think most of them don't have girlfriends. Worst of all they are not even eating Beef Jerky. This leads me to strongly believe that we need to NOT have headshots in Planetside. Or else we are doomed to a K:D give-a-crap fest full of complaining and whining to the likes we only see when someone brings a Lasher inside of a tower and or base. Granted we won't hear whining about that anymore because nobody will go inside a tower or a base, as per the fact too many people have snipper riffles trying to be Pvt Jackson.
Anyways. Headshots are cool. Planetside is cool. Headshots plus Planetside is not cool. It's not even room temperature. And if there's anything I hate. It's things above room temperature. Therefore, I hate the idea of headshots in Planetside
Lets move on to other things. Like the lack of a inventory system
Dreamcast
2011-07-10, 08:36 PM
How about this: Headshots on those without helmets? Then it's like in planetside based on the armor type you are using. Let's say that most people will have a helmet as default equipment, and you're done :)
This way you can create meaningful exceptions: I get X when using this armor, but it does not have a helmet, so I will be easier to hit by snipers.
Or: If you shoot a nimble infantry with jet-pack on the jet-pack with a sniper riffle it'll cause him to explode in one hit. Likely a very hard thing to do, because most of the times they'll be coming right at you, or they might be flying to dodge your sniper, but if you get them on that vital piece of equipment, I do believe that the shooter deserves the kill.
It's all a balance in the end that the development team needs to make, but it gives them a bit more breath to play with.
That will make sense, I did see come guys without helmets.....
win
:lol:
You are hereby awarded with a cake!
Forsaken One
2011-07-10, 08:43 PM
The truth in a nutshell
This.
Its what happens in every game where stuff like that is allowed. I've gamed a long time and seen so many games turn into total shit because of stuff for the competitive monkey tards.
I hereby award to you the. "Bad drawing that can hopefully make the monkeys understand better then English" Merit!
Dreamcast
2011-07-10, 08:45 PM
Hello folks! Plan on posting abit more now that PS2 has been announced, have been lurking for quite some time now. If I may:
To whom said the "Halo sniper rifle" is not used alot. As someone that has been playing Halo PC, 2, 3, and Reach online at various times throughout the years. I can say that people are still teamkilling eachother and camping the Sniper Rifle spawn in lines to get a chance at the Sniper Rifle.
Getting a completely separate game out of the topic now and changing back to Planetside...
Planetside has always been a game of "I can see them but I can't kill them", whereas you can clearly see your enemy, but you'll need to plan stuff out right if you actually intend to kill them. I've been a firm believer that the Planetside way of sniping has been extremely successful. In any given game with any given set of rules, requirements, or playstyles. If there is a class with a sniper rifle and headshots are 1-hit kills. 71.2% of your players will become snipers. I believe it is a law, actually. As proven by the fact that every popular FPS game's player submitted videos on youtube are nothing but Sniper montages.
Seeing as nobody has introduced horribly drawn pictures yet. I feel that it is my job to do this. Right now I feel PS runs as such:
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4056/sniperps1.png
Currently, the system works and stuff (mostly) gets done. People support eachother most of the time, and while certain roles will never be filled (looking at you medics....Wait. I'm a medic, how does that work?), I feel the game is at least always progressing.
Now, if headshots were implemented for snipers only with no bulletphysics (not even emulated stuff like BC2) I foresee:
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6065/sniperps2.png
As you can see. Nothing it getting done and people only care about Kills:Deaths. Nobody seems to give a darn about anything and the team effort is now gone. Everyone is lazy (why move across bases when I can shoot you from right here?) and I think most of them don't have girlfriends. Worst of all they are not even eating Beef Jerky. This leads me to strongly believe that we need to NOT have headshots in Planetside. Or else we are doomed to a K:D give-a-crap fest full of complaining and whining to the likes we only see when someone brings a Lasher inside of a tower and or base. Granted we won't hear whining about that anymore because nobody will go inside a tower or a base, as per the fact too many people have snipper riffles trying to be Pvt Jackson.
Anyways. Headshots are cool. Planetside is cool. Headshots plus Planetside is not cool. It's not even room temperature. And if there's anything I hate. It's things above room temperature. Therefore, I hate the idea of headshots in Planetside
Lets move on to other things. Like the lack of a inventory system
Except you forgot that planetside sniper who gets shot, heals himself and continues....No risk for being a sniper.
Im glad Medic is a class now because of this.
See you are assuming still that sniping is going to be simple like halo,cod,bf,etc.......I said so many times.
Headshot Snipping is going to be hard.
-You need a skilltree to make it available first of all
-worst Accuracy
-worst recoil
-worst reload time
- 2 or 3 bullets per clip
- body hits dont do lots of damage
They will not be op in any form
A regular PS sniper will OWN a Headshot Sniper head to head....and will be the best in most circumstances....Understand?
So why will 70% of players according to you become Headshot snipers if is going to be hard as hell to use?
Most players won't.....they will get there ass kicked by regular better accurate snipers.......
Except you forgot that planetside sniper who gets shot, heals himself and continues....No risk for being a sniper.
Im glad Medic is a class now because of this.
See you are assuming still that sniping is going to be simple like halo,cod,bf,etc.......I said so many times.
Headshot Snipping is going to be hard.
-You need a skilltree to make it available first of all
-worst Accuracy
-worst recoil
-worst reload time
- 2 or 3 bullets per clip
- body hits dont do lots of damage
They will not be op in any form
A regular Sniper PS sniper will OWN a Headshot Sniper head to head....and will be the best in most circumstances....Understand?
So why will 70% of players according to you become Headshot snipers if is going to be hard as hell to use?
Most players won't.....they will get there ass kicked by regular better accurate snipers.......
So you want to do headshots with inaccurate rifles?
artifice
2011-07-10, 08:55 PM
Except you forgot that planetside sniper who gets shot, heals himself and continues....No risk for being a sniper.
Im glad Medic is a class now because of this.
See you are assuming still that sniping is going to be simple like halo,cod,bf,etc.......I said so many times.
Headshot Snipping is going to be hard.
-You need a skilltree to make it available first of all
-worst Accuracy
-worst recoil
-worst reload time
- 2 or 3 bullets per clip
- body hits dont do lots of damage
They will not be op in any form
A regular PS sniper will OWN a Headshot Sniper head to head....and will be the best in most circumstances....Understand?
So why will 70% of players according to you become Headshot snipers if is going to be hard as hell to use?
Most players won't.....they will get there ass kicked by regular better accurate snipers.......
Arm chair balancing is completely impossible for this game right now. Why even try?
Dreamcast
2011-07-10, 08:55 PM
So you want to do headshots with inaccurate rifles?
I want headshots with sniper rifles who will sacrifice accuracy and other stats for headshots.
They will still be usable but harder to use....A regular sniper rifle with great accuracy will own a headshot sniper(heads up if they were to see eachother at the sametime).
A regular sniper rifle will be ideal for moving infantry and anybody with less health.
NCLynx
2011-07-10, 09:03 PM
"But guys you don't understand, headshotting will be hard that's why it should be in the game"
No matter how hard something is eventually people will start to get better and better at it, until no one feels like going outside anymore because they'll just be headshot.
Dreamcast
2011-07-10, 09:07 PM
"But guys you don't understand, headshotting will be hard that's why it should be in the game"
No matter how hard something is eventually people will start to get better and better at it, until no one feels like going outside anymore because they'll just be headshot.
Same can be said about so many other classes...Eventually there is going to be this badass tanker,pilot,max,etc who is going to beat everybody else.
If somebody has the patience and is so good to not get sniped by others snipers then he is very damn good.
PS1 Snipers are way more OP.....You just heal yourself when u get shot by a sniper and do 2/3 of damage with 1 shot.....Talk about OP.
2coolforu
2011-07-10, 09:14 PM
Hello folks! Plan on posting abit more now that PS2 has been announced, have been lurking for quite some time now. If I may:
To whom said the "Halo sniper rifle" is not used alot. As someone that has been playing Halo PC, 2, 3, and Reach online at various times throughout the years. I can say that people are still teamkilling eachother and camping the Sniper Rifle spawn in lines to get a chance at the Sniper Rifle.
Getting a completely separate game out of the topic now and changing back to Planetside...
Planetside has always been a game of "I can see them but I can't kill them", whereas you can clearly see your enemy, but you'll need to plan stuff out right if you actually intend to kill them. I've been a firm believer that the Planetside way of sniping has been extremely successful. In any given game with any given set of rules, requirements, or playstyles. If there is a class with a sniper rifle and headshots are 1-hit kills. 71.2% of your players will become snipers. I believe it is a law, actually. As proven by the fact that every popular FPS game's player submitted videos on youtube are nothing but Sniper montages.
Seeing as nobody has introduced horribly drawn pictures yet. I feel that it is my job to do this. Right now I feel PS runs as such:
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4056/sniperps1.png
Currently, the system works and stuff (mostly) gets done. People support eachother most of the time, and while certain roles will never be filled (looking at you medics....Wait. I'm a medic, how does that work?), I feel the game is at least always progressing.
Now, if headshots were implemented for snipers only with no bulletphysics (not even emulated stuff like BC2) I foresee:
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6065/sniperps2.png
As you can see. Nothing it getting done and people only care about Kills:Deaths. Nobody seems to give a darn about anything and the team effort is now gone. Everyone is lazy (why move across bases when I can shoot you from right here?) and I think most of them don't have girlfriends. Worst of all they are not even eating Beef Jerky. This leads me to strongly believe that we need to NOT have headshots in Planetside. Or else we are doomed to a K:D give-a-crap fest full of complaining and whining to the likes we only see when someone brings a Lasher inside of a tower and or base. Granted we won't hear whining about that anymore because nobody will go inside a tower or a base, as per the fact too many people have snipper riffles trying to be Pvt Jackson.
Anyways. Headshots are cool. Planetside is cool. Headshots plus Planetside is not cool. It's not even room temperature. And if there's anything I hate. It's things above room temperature. Therefore, I hate the idea of headshots in Planetside
Lets move on to other things. Like the lack of a inventory system
He speaks the truth, even in ARMA 2, a mil-sim game the frigging US ARMY uses to train with is filled with nothing but snipers. Give people the choice and they just go sit on the nearest ridge with a Barret M107 .50 BMG and have a big circlejerk over how much fun it is. If you want any semblance of diversity you are going to have to make a sniper 2 hit kill like it is in Pside, even then there are plenty of snipers.
Also he is right on the montage, every fucking montage is some sniper trying to be awesome and every multiplayer game now has about 30-50% of the players trying to be 1337 4w3s0m3 5n1p3r5,
NCLynx
2011-07-10, 09:16 PM
Same can be said about so many other classes...Eventually there is going to be this badass tanker,pilot,max,etc who is going to beat everybody else.
If somebody has the patience and is so good to not get sniped by others snipers then he is very damn good.
A badass tanker, pilot, MAX, etc (maybe excluding Cloaker) are much more noticeable than a sniper (especially one that's gotten much better at it).
Dreamcast
2011-07-10, 09:17 PM
He speaks the truth, even in ARMA 2, a mil-sim game the frigging US ARMY uses to train with is filled with nothing but snipers. Give people the choice and they just go sit on the nearest ridge with a Barret M107 .50 BMG and have a big circlejerk over how much fun it is. If you want any semblance of diversity you are going to have to make a sniper 2 hit kill like it is in Pside, even then there are plenty of snipers.
Also he is right on the montage, every fucking montage is some sniper trying to be awesome and every multiplayer game now has about 30-50% of the players trying to be 1337 4w3s0m3 5n1p3r5,
Wanna talk about BS?
PS1 snipping was BS....Get shot, heal....get a skill or do 2/3 of damage to somebody...get shot, get healed.
Gladly Medic is a class now.
But Im sure there is going to be medics for snipers now, who just goes around healing them when they get shot.
So atleast make it so that only snipers can get headshot.
No more Planetside BS please.....make it have risk to be a sniper.
2coolforu
2011-07-10, 09:20 PM
Wanna talk about BS?
PS1 snipping was BS....Get shot, heal....get a skill or do 2/3 of damage to somebody...get shot, get healed.
Gladly Medic is a class now.
But Im sure there is going to be medics for snipers now, who just goes around healing them when they get shot.
So atleast make it so that only snipers can get headshot.
No more Planetside BS please.....make it have risk to be a sniper.
It's called picking your shots or going in a 2 man sniping team, if you can't dominate as a sniper in Pside then you shouldn't be in that role. This is exactly how sniping should be, they should be few and far between and fill in a very specialized role that have a dramatic effect but are not populous.
ZeroOneZero
2011-07-10, 09:27 PM
Wow 10-11 pages and still!!
Correct me if I'm wrong. As I recall in the first PS, snipers seemed perfect. It takes 2-3 shots to kill depending on the armor type. The first shot was meant to scare you and also reduce your endurance by at least 70%(if you haven't already wasted most of it) therefore rendering you useless from another incoming shot since you won't be able to dodge it. It's hard to hit a target with surge implants, sure but once you take that endurance away, they become relative easy shots. Which I think it's an awesome approach for a sniper class, unlike other games.
But that's just me.
Dreamcast
2011-07-10, 09:28 PM
It's called picking your shots or going in a 2 man sniping team, if you can't dominate as a sniper in Pside then you shouldn't be in that role. This is exactly how sniping should be, they should be few and far between and fill in a very specialized role that have a dramatic effect but are not populous.
Thing is not everybody has a mic to coordinate shots, let alone a dedicated teammate.
What is going to happen in Planetside 2 is this......5 or 7 snipers are going to be on 1 hill or behind some place with a medic their and each time one of them gets hit, they are going to get healed by the medic.
Talk about OP......Sure if you have a team and coordinate shots, yeah is possible to kill them but otherwise no....That is OP.
When Infintry cant kill u because of distance and other snipers cant kill u....that is OP and the only way to kill you is thru vechiles lol.
So yes atleast include headshots for snipers only so we can kill each other if you don't want to do it my way.
2coolforu
2011-07-10, 09:32 PM
Thing is not everybody has a mic to coordinate shots, let alone a dedicated teammate.
What is going to happen in Planetside 2 is this......5 or 7 snipers are going to be on 1 hill or behind some place with a medic their and each time one of them gets hit, they are going to get healed by the medic.
Talk about OP......Sure if you have a team and coordinate shots, yeah is possible to kill them but otherwise no....That is OP.
When Infintry cant kill u because of distance and other snipers cant kill u....that is OP and the only way to kill you is thru vechiles lol.
So yes atleast include headshots for snipers only so we can kill each other if you don't want to do it my way.
It's incredibly easy to get kills with sniper rifles in Planetside, I know because I sniped since the beginning of the game. You're argument makes no sense, the sniper rifles are fine, the skill is not landing the first shot but getting the second shot in, its also a harassment weapon, you force the enemies into cover and off the walls and make them cower allowing your forces to push in. Snipers are also easy bait to mosquitos and it requires a lot of skill to pick the perfect position.
Snipers in planetside are fine, they also take a helluva lot of skill. You need to predict movements and land that second shot, we just replace getting a headshot with hitting a second shot - this also prevents incredibly annoying insta-gibs from 300 metres away that will probably just piss off half the player base. I mean its annoying enough in CoD when some sniper hits your toe from half the map away and you die.
Baneblade
2011-07-10, 09:45 PM
I think the most important thing to do about sniping in ps2 is to get rid of the mouse accuracy silliness while zoomed in.
Vancha
2011-07-10, 09:50 PM
I'm honestly convinced you did nothing but sit on base walkways and behind hills trading shots opposite enemy snipers who were doing so the same.
If you had such a hard time killing enemy snipers, then you were a bad sniper.
Duddy
2011-07-10, 09:53 PM
I'm honestly convinced you did nothing but sit on base walkways and behind hills trading shots opposite enemy snipers who were doing so the same.
If you had such a hard time killing enemy snipers, then you were a bad sniper.
Indeed. Bad sniper wants easy kills. Huge news story eh?
Firefly
2011-07-10, 10:03 PM
Thing is not everybody has a mic to coordinate shots, let alone a dedicated teammate.
What is going to happen in Planetside 2 is this......5 or 7 snipers are going to be on 1 hill or behind some place with a medic their and each time one of them gets hit, they are going to get healed by the medic.
Talk about OP......Sure if you have a team and coordinate shots, yeah is possible to kill them but otherwise no....That is OP.
When Infintry cant kill u because of distance and other snipers cant kill u....that is OP and the only way to kill you is thru vechiles lol.
So yes atleast include headshots for snipers only so we can kill each other if you don't want to do it my way.
Would you just shut the fuck up with this twitch-game lame-ass bullshit? You're the only one wanting this shit. A goddamned 11-page thread devoted to shutting you the fuck up on this subject and you can't take a fucking hint. There's not a goddamned person that agrees with you. You have a number of long-time PS players schooling you and you're dribbling juice down your fucking chin like your sippy cup has a leak in it, talking about "durrrr OP durrrr sniper headshots durrrrr i saw a movie once durrrrr"...
This game was designed for teamwork. This game was designed so that there were no one-hit weapons. Relax, chill the fuck out, go jerk off to Justin Bieber pictures, and
CHANGE THE FUCKING SUBJECT, FUCKSOCK.
Coyote
2011-07-10, 10:07 PM
I elect we change the subject to Beef Jerky and the lack of inventory systems.
or my awesome drawings, either or.
Edit: Also, as to not appear trolly. I completely agree with Firefly. Thread is getting annoying.
Firefly
2011-07-10, 10:09 PM
I elect we change the subject to Beef Jerky and the lack of inventory systems.
or my awesome drawings, either or.
Edit: Also, as to not appear trolly. I completely agree with Firefly. Thread is getting annoying.
Dude that drawing was pimp. I saved it. Kudos, it was fucking awesome.
Forsaken One
2011-07-10, 10:17 PM
Dude that drawing was pimp. I saved it. Kudos, it was fucking awesome.
you forgot to give it a custom merit. :D and I must admit. I'm starting to like your non-bullshit style Firefly =p
I elect we change the subject to Beef Jerky and the lack of inventory systems.
or my awesome drawings
I say we change it to coming up with custom Merits for those drawings.
Evilmp
2011-07-10, 10:22 PM
Just getting in before this turns into a flame war:
Headshots are bad. We have CS. We have TF2. We have CoD.
Let's have a game that requires tactics. Corner-camping insta-kill snipers require no tactics.
NCLynx
2011-07-10, 10:31 PM
I too saved the awesome pictures.
And I too would not like to see Planetside turn into a huge Dust2 with AWPs.
Rbstr
2011-07-10, 10:37 PM
The idea that headshots mean CS-style sniping is silly.
In games that happen at long ranges and don't have instant-to-zoom sniper headshots are quite rare except sniper v sniper.
Even then they are often not one-hit-kill.
Evilmp
2011-07-10, 10:42 PM
The idea that headshots mean CS-style sniping is silly.
In games that happen at long ranges and don't have instant-to-zoom sniper headshots are quite rare except sniper v sniper.
Even then they are often not one-hit-kill.
Maybe I'm playing different games than you - but every game I've ever played that had a sniper class has had corner camping. This is my personal experience, and I'd like to not see that in Planetside in any way.
Rbstr
2011-07-10, 10:44 PM
There's also the issue that the AWP is often one-hit kill on center mass as well as headshots.
That's a whole different ballgame.
2coolforu
2011-07-10, 10:46 PM
Well Hamma says we'll find out about headshots tommorow; let the flamewar continue on monday ^_^
moosepoop
2011-07-10, 10:50 PM
the more powerful snipers are in ps2 the less ammo they should be able to carry, and the slower their firing rate. and more powerful sniper guns need big long trails that give their position away.
2coolforu
2011-07-10, 10:51 PM
So it would be fine if we made the repeater have 1 bullet in its clip and kill instantly from across the map. The argument makes no sense, the snipers worked fine so if it aint broke don't overcomplicate it
Coyote
2011-07-10, 10:58 PM
In retrospect I thought of something that was more fearful then headshots from across the map.
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5043/sniperps2cc.png
Who needs MAXs when you have 1-hit sniper rifles. Also I might have been lazy. We all know they'd be in Rexos.
Actually. They would probably all just have lashers. being VS and all, but if this was NC or TR? Totally legit picture.
Hey if headshots are implimented, would lasher's lash-aoe stuff count as headshots too? That would be fair and balanced I think. Same thing with the NC's jackhammer. And scatter-pistol too.
Would knives also 1-hit kill headshot?
(to be fair I feel as I am downright trolling now. I apologize. Too many items would be Overpowered if headshots were allowed. And if headshots were Sniper Rifles only it would be downright ludicrous to try and make people understand why.)
moosepoop
2011-07-10, 10:58 PM
make sniper head shots disorient, no extra damage.
Hamma
2011-07-10, 11:47 PM
This thread degraded quite a bit. All sorts of yelling at each other accomplishes nothing.. :lol: Everyone has an opinion and it's important to have a productive debate.
I've got this in the Q&A tomorrow, I'll be posting it somewhere around Noon CDT.
SKYeXile
2011-07-10, 11:52 PM
This thread degraded quite a bit. All sorts of yelling at each other accomplishes nothing.. :lol: Everyone has an opinion and it's important to have a productive debate.
I've got this in the Q&A tomorrow, I'll be posting it somewhere around Noon CDT.
why the suspense??! POST IT NOW!
why the suspense??! POST IT NOW!
http://cdn.newsoxy.com/2011/03/az-meeting-pitchfork-e1299886890902.jpg
http://www.instructables.com/image/F8M0KDJBW0EQ2W33Z8/How-to-make-a-torch-for-less-than-a-dollar.jpg
Hamma is holding out. GET HIM.
SKYeXile
2011-07-11, 12:03 AM
*forms part of angry mob*
Lets cut out his brain and take the info!
Dreamcast
2011-07-11, 01:22 PM
I'm honestly convinced you did nothing but sit on base walkways and behind hills trading shots opposite enemy snipers who were doing so the same.
If you had such a hard time killing enemy snipers, then you were a bad sniper.
Most of my kills were infantry running....
Sniping in Planetside was broken, sorry when you get shot and just heal yourself which I did....and just continue on sniping, you know is broken.
Sure you can coordinate with another sniper, but is sad that is the only way to kill a sniper, I mean unless a vechile or infiltrator somehow gets into your base without detection.
Would you just shut the fuck up with this twitch-game lame-ass bullshit? You're the only one wanting this shit. A goddamned 11-page thread devoted to shutting you the fuck up on this subject and you can't take a fucking hint. There's not a goddamned person that agrees with you. You have a number of long-time PS players schooling you and you're dribbling juice down your fucking chin like your sippy cup has a leak in it, talking about "durrrr OP durrrr sniper headshots durrrrr i saw a movie once durrrrr"...
This game was designed for teamwork. This game was designed so that there were no one-hit weapons. Relax, chill the fuck out, go jerk off to Justin Bieber pictures, and
CHANGE THE FUCKING SUBJECT, FUCKSOCK.
Apperantly the development team agrees with headshots....Dont know how they are going to work or if they 1 shot kill.
and the poll says lots of people want headshots with most wanting headshots that arn't 1 shot kill.
Deal with it.
Say the word fuck and complain about hollywood all you want but is happening:)
Im so glad SOE is fixing snipers, and finally there is a risk for being a sniper....Inb4 a million COD MW2 sniper videos.....People always think about the worst example.
Gandhi
2011-07-11, 01:23 PM
and the poll says lots of people want headshots with most wanting headshots that arn't 1 shot kill.
Actually the poll says most people DON'T want headshots, with the rest willing to accept headshots that aren't one hit kills.
Sirisian
2011-07-11, 01:26 PM
Actually the poll says most people DON'T want headshots, with the rest willing to accept headshots that aren't one hit kills.
heh. He doesn't want facts. I linked that thread twice and he overlooked it. People read what they want to. :rolleyes:
Dreamcast
2011-07-11, 01:26 PM
Actually the poll says most people DON'T want headshots, with the rest willing to accept headshots that aren't one hit kills.
Why are you lying?....Check again.
46% are for headshots but not 1 ht kill
35% are for them, meaning 1 hit kills
19% are against them
http://www.planetside-universe.com/ps/archive_poll.php
source....1st box.
Please stop lying.
Dreamcast
2011-07-11, 01:27 PM
heh. He doesn't want facts. I linked that thread twice and he overlooked it. People read what they want to. :rolleyes:
That was then...this is know
http://www.planetside-universe.com/ps/archive_poll.php
Deal with it.
Gandhi
2011-07-11, 01:30 PM
That was then...this is know
http://www.planetside-universe.com/ps/archive_poll.php
Deal with it.
I didn't even see that poll. I was talking about this one
http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35881
which curiously says exactly the opposite, with more than twice as many votes I might add.
Dreamcast
2011-07-11, 01:32 PM
I didn't even see that poll. I was talking about this one
http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35881
which curiously says exactly the opposite, with more than twice as many votes I might add.
That was then this is now.
I guess people have changed there minds or havn't seen the poll yet lol.
Logit
2011-07-11, 01:42 PM
How hard is it to sit on a hill miles from the battle and aim for someones head? Must be the lamest gaming experience of all time.
Dreamcast
2011-07-11, 01:55 PM
How hard is it to sit on a hill miles from the battle and aim for someones head? Must be the lamest gaming experience of all time.
IDK as hard as getting shot and healing yourself....Like in Planetside:lol:
Logit
2011-07-11, 01:57 PM
IDK as hard as getting shot and healing yourself....Like in Planetside:lol:
I think sniping in general is pretty dumb in video games. So I'll never be on there side.
I have what we call, a bias.
2coolforu
2011-07-11, 02:01 PM
Most of my kills were infantry running....
Sniping in Planetside was broken, sorry when you get shot and just heal yourself which I did....and just continue on sniping, you know is broken.
Sure you can coordinate with another sniper, but is sad that is the only way to kill a sniper, I mean unless a vechile or infiltrator somehow gets into your base without detection.
Apperantly the development team agrees with headshots....Dont know how they are going to work or if they 1 shot kill.
and the poll says lots of people want headshots with most wanting headshots that arn't 1 shot kill.
Deal with it.
Say the word fuck and complain about hollywood all you want but is happening:)
Im so glad SOE is fixing snipers, and finally there is a risk for being a sniper....Inb4 a million COD MW2 sniper videos.....People always think about the worst example.
Planetside sniping wasn't broken, you are talking to someone who's sniped in Planetside since the day the game began.
Also wait and see what headshots even means before getting smarmy with Firefly, he's epic and you'll just incur his wrath.
Dreamcast
2011-07-11, 02:09 PM
Planetside sniping wasn't broken, you are talking to someone who's sniped in Planetside since the day the game began.
Also wait and see what headshots even means before getting smarmy with Firefly, he's epic and you'll just incur his wrath.
It was broken against snipers....Most snipers when they get shot, just healed themselves.
Unless you were working with another sniper, to shoot somebody at the same time or another sniper flanked him so when he was behind his cover, he could shoot him(which in some areas it is very hard to do that)...the sniper will simply heal himself and continue with no risk.
Sniping infantry was good tho, I did love that aspect about the game but I was felt that it should be more risky to be a sniper and is so easy to get shot and heal yourself.
Gandhi
2011-07-11, 02:12 PM
It was broken against snipers....Most snipers when they get shot, just healed themselves.
Unless you were working with another sniper, to shoot somebody at the same time or another sniper flanked him so when he was behind his cover, he could shoot him(which in some areas it is very hard to do that)...the sniper will simply heal himself and continue with no risk.
Sniping infantry was good tho, I did love that aspect about the game but I was felt that it should be more risky to be a sniper and is so easy to get shot and heal yourself.
Well, if that's all it is then there's no reason to introduce something as game changing as one shot kills. A simple restriction on self healing would do just fine, no? AFAIK it's already being added, so that particular problem should fix itself.
Dreamcast
2011-07-11, 02:17 PM
Well, if that's all it is then there's no reason to introduce something as game changing as one shot kills. A simple restriction on self healing would do just fine, no? AFAIK it's already being added, so that particular problem should fix itself.
Im glad that problem is fix...but I already know what is going to happen most likely.
There is going to be 1 hill full of snipers and some healer hiding there.
Each time a sniper gets hit, he is going to hide and get healed.
The Sniper/medic combo is gonna be popular.
Tigersmith
2011-07-11, 02:19 PM
Prone is confirmed not in game. Just asked him on Reddit
http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/il5og/hey_rplanetside_im_matt_higby_the_creative/c24xvzp
2coolforu
2011-07-11, 02:21 PM
w00t
Manitou
2011-07-11, 02:21 PM
Excellent.
Gandhi
2011-07-11, 02:22 PM
Im glad that problem is fix...but I already know what is going to happen most likely.
There is going to be 1 hill full of snipers and some healer hiding there.
Each time a sniper gets hit, he is going to hide and get healed.
The Sniper/medic combo is gonna be popular.
If that becomes common I will eat my mousepad. And even if it somehow does that kind of sniper party is going to be a very tempting target for every vehicle, infiltrator, aircraft and soldier out there. I honestly don't see it being a problem, at all.
Vancha
2011-07-11, 02:27 PM
It was broken against snipers....Most snipers when they get shot, just healed themselves.
Unless you were working with another sniper, to shoot somebody at the same time or another sniper flanked him so when he was behind his cover, he could shoot him(which in some areas it is very hard to do that)...the sniper will simply heal himself and continue with no risk.
If you want headshots that's fine, but please stop saying this. You didn't need to work with another sniper, you just needed to wait for someone else to hit your target first...And you didn't need another sniper to flank them, YOU should have been flanking them. If you were trying to kill another sniper without waiting for someone else to snipe them first, and you weren't flanking them, then you were doing it wrong. You can't blame the game for that.
abathur
2011-07-11, 02:28 PM
lol thread is lol. Someone's frustrated he can't kill ridgeliners.
In short, the whole point of sniping is to exploit strategically and tactically superior ground. A ridgeline gives you a strong advantage against other snipers, but the high position makes you and your shots more visible and the tradeoff is generally increased attention and vulnerability to aircraft.
I admit a persistent ridgeliner who denies you the chance to hit him is frustrating--still, the only problem here isn't the lack of headshots but the hitbox issues that keep ridgeliners from being hittable when they should be.
Otherwise, if a sniper is holding superior ground which gives him a significant advantage in preventing you from forcing him out, he's doing it right. If you're good enough, you'll still kill him. If you're determined enough, you'll find a better place to operate out of. If you're frustrated enough, you'll go rock-paper-scissors him with something else. If none of these are viable options, you'll recognize that you're playing a game in which the strategic and tactical advantages/disadvantages of geography are significant and remember to deny the snipers access to such nice terrain in the future.
Dreamcast
2011-07-11, 02:29 PM
Prone is confirmed not in game. Just asked him on Reddit
http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/il5og/hey_rplanetside_im_matt_higby_the_creative/c24xvzp
That really sucks, was hoping it was part of the skill tree for snipers so not everybody will be prone.
If that becomes common I will eat my mousepad. And even if it somehow does that kind of sniper party is going to be a very tempting target for every vehicle, infiltrator, aircraft and soldier out there. I honestly don't see it being a problem, at all.
Depends exactly how the maps are made if is possible for vehicles to actually go that far behind enemy lines without getting blown up.
Even then some are going to be more discreet and do a 2 man team.
Thats why I say atleast headshots for snipers against sniper only...that will it will make it more interesting to be a sniper.
2coolforu
2011-07-11, 02:31 PM
If that becomes common I will eat my mousepad. And even if it somehow does that kind of sniper party is going to be a very tempting target for every vehicle, infiltrator, aircraft and soldier out there. I honestly don't see it being a problem, at all.
Yeah... When did mosquitos stop existing? A hill full of snipers would have mosquitos flocking to it from all corners of the world.
Dreamcast
2011-07-11, 02:36 PM
If you want headshots that's fine, but please stop saying this. You didn't need to work with another sniper, you just needed to wait for someone else to hit your target first...And you didn't need another sniper to flank them, YOU should have been flanking them. If you were trying to kill another sniper without waiting for someone else to snipe them first, and you weren't flanking them, then you were doing it wrong. You can't blame the game for that.
Like I said some parts, it was hard to flank.....basically it requires to go behind enemy lines, yet is possible but very hard...Other parts were easy to flank.
Also waiting for a sniper too shot him.....doesn't always happen, you do know that, right?.
Rbstr
2011-07-11, 02:42 PM
Not have prone is fine. It tends to slow things down and encourage prolonged camping. If you make the cover tall enough a crouch is good.
There is one simple thing that people continue to do that makes no sense:
We talk about balance of new features within the context of the old game. Many things are going to be different, to the point the emergent "cheap" behaviour is likely not to have anything to do with the current game.
What prone does to PS1 snipers with boltdrivers doesn't matter. We know we have a shorter TTK in general and likely longer effective ranges on the MA/assault weapons with options for mid/longer ranged scopes that will allow you to effectively shoot back at snipers. A big bolt-action type sniper weapon isn't even assured. It's very conceivable that the sniper ends up more of a dedicated marksman semi-auto affair.
Vancha
2011-07-11, 02:56 PM
Like I said some parts, it was hard to flank.....basically it requires to go behind enemy lines, yet is possible but very hard...Other parts were easy to flank.
Also waiting for a sniper too shot him.....doesn't always happen, you do know that, right?.
I could count on one hand the amount of times I've come across enemy snipers who were...
- Unflankable
- Not getting shot by other snipers
- Not getting ganked by aircraft
- Not being harassed by cloakers
- Were being a problem (i.e. making a difference to the success of my empire)
The only place in the game I can remember that even being possible was Oro on Searhus.
Firefly
2011-07-11, 03:14 PM
I could count on one hand the amount of times I've come across enemy snipers who were...
- Unflankable
- Not getting shot by other snipers
- Not getting ganked by aircraft
- Not being harassed by cloakers
- Were being a problem (i.e. making a difference to the success of my empire)
The only place in the game I can remember that even being possible was Oro on Searhus.
This.
If hill-humping snipers piss you off and that makes you butt-hurt, and on top of that you're butt-hurt because you can't outsnipe them, then you fucking suck at this game and you fail at life. Trying to adjust the incompetency level by inserting one-shot kill headshots simply annoys the rest of us. Crying about it and trying to convince us that it's an issue to anyone but yourself just pisses people off.
If you don't have any friends with whom you can co-snipe, my suggestion is that you learn how to play the game first of all, and second of all I recommend trying to perfect the Rexo/dual Bolt Driver load-out which allows many people, even amateur gamer snipers, to successfully kill a sniper in incredibly short order. That will resolve your issue with snipers who heal. Hard to heal when you're dead.
Prone isn't in the game, but headshots are.
Q: Good Morning Matt. Just a Quick Question..
Prone is it in the game?
[Prone]
Matt: No plans for prone currently.
Half victory.
Robert089
2011-07-11, 03:33 PM
Did anyone who played BF:BC2 ever encounter that thing where you'd be on the attacking team and you'd be the only Assault guy trying to destroy the points and literally the rest of your team would just be sniping. They'd have insane k/d spreads but we would still end up losing...
I hope with headshots Planetside doesn't become this. :(
Rarntogo
2011-07-11, 03:34 PM
This.
If hill-humping snipers piss you off and that makes you butt-hurt, and on top of that you're butt-hurt because you can't outsnipe them, then you fucking suck at this game and you fail at life. .
Seriously?? Because sniping is something I do not like in Planetside because for the most part, IMO, it serves no real purpose and it is nothing more than an annoyance, it means I fail at life? Really? :huh:
Rarntogo
2011-07-11, 03:36 PM
Did anyone who played BF:BC2 ever encounter that thing where you'd be on the attacking team and you'd be the only Assault guy trying to destroy the points and literally the rest of your team would just be sniping. They'd have insane k/d spreads but we would still end up losing...
I hope with headshots Planetside doesn't become this. :(
Excellent point! I agree!
2coolforu
2011-07-11, 03:38 PM
Did anyone who played BF:BC2 ever encounter that thing where you'd be on the attacking team and you'd be the only Assault guy trying to destroy the points and literally the rest of your team would just be sniping. They'd have insane k/d spreads but we would still end up losing...
I hope with headshots Planetside doesn't become this. :(
Yeah Bad Company 2 is just infested with snipers, in an average game 50% of the people are sniping and the rest are probably medics and no one moves forward.
Making snipers into killwhores rather than weapons to suppress defenders and force them off the walls and other defensive areas will be a route to disaster for Planetside as the maps are so large and base defenses so chaotic that getting one shotted if you stay still for more than a second (like in Bad Company) could be an unbearable annoyance.
Malorn
2011-07-11, 03:38 PM
I like the Battlefield-style headshots where they just do 50-100% more damage, but aren't necessarily lethal (sniper rifle's obv lethal with that). It gives you incentive to try to aim for upper-chest and let recoil carry upwards, or incentives to aim better.
Ixnay on the Prone. Battlefield Bad Company 2 showed us that you can make a perfectly awesome game without prone. Battlefield 2 showed us how prone can introduce really lame tactics like dolphin diving, etc. it also benefits camping more than assault. That slows down the game and I don't like that.
Prone is unnecessary and bad. Leaving it out encourages attack and movement.
Tigersmith
2011-07-11, 03:43 PM
Did anyone who played BF:BC2 ever encounter that thing where you'd be on the attacking team and you'd be the only Assault guy trying to destroy the points and literally the rest of your team would just be sniping. They'd have insane k/d spreads but we would still end up losing...
I hope with headshots Planetside doesn't become this. :(
omg this summed up my time in that game. I was the only one ever to actually go do the objectives. everyone else could care less and just want to kill each other. Even when i was doing these objectives my KD was always higher then those idiots. They dont care. And its very selfish.
Planetside is a huge team game. If you cant work with people go back to CoD
This is what pisses me off time after time in these FPS games now.
Example:
Domination game mode on Call of Duty. The goal of this is to grab flags ..not to run around like team deathmatch. But wait! no one even goes to grab them.
Im sick of stupid people sometimes.
basti
2011-07-11, 03:48 PM
omg this summed up my time in that game. I was the only one ever to actually go do the objectives. everyone else could care less and just want to kill each other.
This is what pisses me off time after time in these FPS games now.
Example:
Domination game mode on Call of Duty. The goal of this is to grab flags ..not to run around like team deathmatch. But wait! no one even goes to grab them.
Im sick of stupid people sometimes.
This is exatly why i fear headshots and Kill streaks. People care way to much about Kills and deaths. Supporting that will only make the entire territory stuff, the actual meat of planetside, useless. And if i cant have that because most other players just kill each other in a giant 3way fragfest, then planetside 2 is no game for me. I want to command troops, i want to lead the zerg and gain ground, want to make tactical decisions on where we should go, what we should defend, what territory we need to sacrifice in order to take other ground and gain more than we loose (Anyone remember the North East Ishundar Triangle of Dagon, Baal, Akkan?). I want that stuff, badly! :)
Forsaken One
2011-07-11, 03:49 PM
Headshots will cater to these people
YouTube - ***x202a;Dee Dee Dee song (Official Music Video)***x202c;‏
NOT Planetsiders
I'm sure Tigersmith and Firefly will agree with me.
Firefly
2011-07-11, 03:49 PM
Seriously?? Because sniping is something I do not like in Planetside because for the most part, IMO, it serves no real purpose and it is nothing more than an annoyance, it means I fail at life? Really? :huh:
If you cannot defeat a Planetside sniper by any means at all, then yes. My meaning probably could have been a bit more clear - sorry, I thought I worded it properly enough. What I mean is, if you're getting assfucked by a sniper and you just can't seem to take him out no matter what, you suck.
Let's examine the facts here - this is a video game without one-shot kills except in very limited circumstances. By design, however, no weapon is meant to be an insta-gib as near as I can tell. At least that's the intent that was drilled into us from the first time a developer publicly spoke about the game. Meaning you have just as much of a chance of dying from a solitary sniper as he does from dying to you. He's not prone, he's not wearing a ghillie suit, he's not laying in dense foliage with utter concealment (unless you have the pretty grass and flowers turned on). No, he's kneeling down with a massive cannon pressed to his face and all he can see is in that zoomed-in posture. He has to expose himself above the ridge to fire. Because this game has what, one? hitbox per player, that means shooting him in the hairline is as good a hit as shooting him in the face, the shoulder, the chest and/or the dick. He's firing slower than most other weapons in the game. Even with the other sniper rifle, the veteran reward weapon (I forget its name because it's irrelevant to me). He's at a disadvantage. He's trading damage for rate of fire and he's almost as exposed as anyone else. Pro snipers in Planetside are pro for a reason, and that's picking and choosing their targets and playing smart.
They are not nigh-invincible. I'm not the most elite run-and-gun player out there. I'm an average Joe player who prefers to FPS with a little more brains than skill - so I'm not the greatest, not even a top percentile contender. But I rarely die to a solitary sniper, even in an infiltrator suit. I do, however, count an impressive percentage of my kills as solitary snipers. Why? Because I know how to kill them. It's not rocket science here.
Forcing a one-shot kill headshot mechanic on the rest of us because you fucking suck is an epic fail.
Malorn
2011-07-11, 03:59 PM
Did anyone who played BF:BC2 ever encounter that thing where you'd be on the attacking team and you'd be the only Assault guy trying to destroy the points and literally the rest of your team would just be sniping. They'd have insane k/d spreads but we would still end up losing...
I hope with headshots Planetside doesn't become this. :(
Vehicles change this mechanic, specifically transport vehicles like Galaxies and Deliverers that can absorb some damage and get you through the line. I don't see snipers holding up any significant advance simply due to how rapidly you can cover ground. A gal-drop on a base or tower isn't going to be thwarted by snipers. Nor is a set of tanks & buggies pushing up. You need differnet roles for that.
Snipers aren't anything youw ant to see en masse. And if they do then you just bust out the natural enemy of the sniper - aircraft.
I do hope Liberators make a return. Low altitude carpet bombing of ridges packed with snipers was quite fun.
Firefly
2011-07-11, 04:09 PM
A gal-drop on a base or tower isn't going to be thwarted by snipers. Nor is a set of tanks & buggies pushing up. You need differnet roles for that.
What he said. Snipers are anti-infantry and maybe anti-Spitfire. That's about it. Seriously, making them into a bigger threat to the average player with average skill than what they are is just laughable. No offense to you elite gamer-snipers, of course. :D
I do hope Liberators make a return. Low altitude carpet bombing of ridges packed with snipers was quite fun.
I saw one last night. Guy was pretty good, until he realized that low-altitude attracts plenty of AA and Wasps. I'm a fan myself, and I like seeing WW2-esque bomber formations.
Malorn
2011-07-11, 04:27 PM
Liberators were great in the old days and some good strategic bombing could take out hot AMS, suppress a tower, or clear off a wall and help move the battle forward.
They're not so great in a low-population situation. They're suppressive/strategic and don't work so well when there aren't a rich supply of targets ....then they just get shot down becuase the tailgun sucked.
I liked low-altitude as you could use the trees to hide from lock-on weaponry. It worked well against NC and VS, and also against TR until a burster wisened up. Low altitude also allowed you to fly over and drop the bombs and give the target little to no warning before getting owned. It was fun to do this on AA max that stayed in the same spot.
Having a Liberator and being able to upgrade its tailgun with flak rounds or lock-on missiles or something would be fantastic. It wasn't a good deterrant and had a horrible up-angle. A 3 person vehicle needs to be worht the investment and it should take more than a single mosq or wasp to take them down. I'd also like the ability to have the bomber swap positions into the tailgun in-flight.
I should save my liberator thoughts for another thread. Maybe make that my next topic...strategic bombing. Something else I did a ton of in PS.
Firefly
2011-07-11, 04:32 PM
I dunno - I found the tailgun to be adequate. But then if you have more than one Liberator *and* you stay at max altitude where they can't get above you, you should be able to mount a stiff defense. It's not a Flying Fortress with gun coverage everywhere, so in spite of low-altitude being best altitude max altitude is about your only real defense, unfortunately.
I always found getting a friendly AA max (or skyguard) to camp for anything coming after me to be much more effective than a tailgunner.
Malorn
2011-07-11, 04:38 PM
A design issue with bombers I believe. Main issue there is that if you went high altitude you got completely owned by AA, while if you didn't you got owned by other aircraft, even if you had a tailgunner. Screwed either way.
Malorn
2011-07-11, 04:39 PM
I always found getting a friendly AA max (or skyguard) to camp for anything coming after me to be much more effective than a tailgunner.
Or telling the tailgunner to go get into a wasp/mosquito/reaver and cover you that way.
I've been thinking about this for a while, and I do need to say that I think one-shot kill headshots wouldn't be that good for any weapons. Introduces a bit of a random factor to the game where a bullet spread might creep up and for no real reason of skill or tactics, you die quickly.
People might abhor this reference, but I like the way 1 game has done headshots: Halo. I'm not counting the halo sniper rifle on this since it's usually not that common, but for weapons like the DMR and the pistol, mid range precision weapons, having headshots that do more damage is a great reward for player skill, but it's not just a one off thing. you don't really get the benefits unless you do it consistently. Odds are that this is probably how headshots will go down, and I'm alright with that.
If they had to include one-shot headshot kills in the game, my idea for that would be either a specific type of ammo, that has limited supply (I'm talking about maybe 5 bullets per sniper, and that's being generous) or a secondary shot that either uses up a huge amount of ammo, or has a long cooldown. The general idea being that if a sniper wants to make a one-shot kill, he needs to make that decision and prioritize it. I think it would better represent a true sniper role of long range destruction of key assets and figures, rather than just long-range harassment. Again, I'd prefer the multiple-shot method, however, simply because as impressive (to me at least) as it would be for a sniper to deliberately find, chose, and eliminate a high-priority target, it would be even more impressive for that to be coordinated by two snipers. Truly badass.
To that end, I'd like to move this topic beyond headshot's and prone (one is confirmed, one denied, that's the end of it) to other possible skills for snipers. I'd personally love to see the recon role of a sniper expanded, as coyote showed in his exquisite masterpieces. It'd be cool to see the old laser pointer from PS1 to be revamped, so people actually use it. Maybe allow snipers to highlight a single target for 10 or 15 seconds to squadmates, either a tank, galaxy, infiltrator, or a general for everything from coordinating snipers to alerting a base about a gal drop. Also, if they try to make artillery work in this game, having a sniper work with that would be great.
Also, one last thing. One game that I LOVED sniping in was Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising, a game I pretty much consider to be a smaller, non-sci-fi version of planetside. In that game, shots beyond 300 yards needed windage and drop corrections, if I remember correctly. Could be a very interesting addition to Planetside, but who knows...
Dreamcast
2011-07-11, 06:56 PM
I could count on one hand the amount of times I've come across enemy snipers who were...
- Unflankable
- Not getting shot by other snipers
- Not getting ganked by aircraft
- Not being harassed by cloakers
- Were being a problem (i.e. making a difference to the success of my empire)
The only place in the game I can remember that even being possible was Oro on Searhus.
Havn't u ever sniped from a base?
In bases u dont have to worry about
Cloakers....unless they can actually break thru without being detected with 50 guys in the courtyard, is not gonna happen.
Unflakable.....It depends what base you are exactly but there isn't always better angles to snipe people from, I admit some their is.
Aircrafts...Depends on your base really, if your base is strong with AA etc, there shouldn't be any aircraft ganking you.
Getting shot by other snipers.....This one is probably the 1 that most likely happened but again it doesnt always happen.....I rather just have OSOK so I can get rid of the sniper and go on helping picking off infantry to help out.
I been a sniper in bases...I had heal...I know how easy it was to get sniped and healed yourself........Not saying I was unkillable just that it was a very cheap move.
OSOK will get rid of snipers and let us help kill infantry which I love to do...
Like I said make OSOK for sniper to use against snipers just to make it funner so it won't ruin you game play
Redshift
2011-07-11, 07:02 PM
OSOK will get rid of snipers and let us help kill infantry which I love to do...
That's awfully selfish, and it won't get rid of snipers it will make everyone spec it :/
Vancha
2011-07-11, 07:31 PM
Stuff
The point was, that the chances of ALL those happening at once was incredibly small. Of course I forgot to include liberators, tanks, flails and scorpions too.
And I'm pretty sure every base is flankable if you land on the right tree, but still, if you can't get a good angle then you wait for an allied sniper to shoot your target, or you move out of LOS of the enemy snipers. If an enemy sniper has...
- AA support
- Anti-cloaker support (a decent cloaker can have free-reign in a CY unless someone's doing DL patrols)
- A position that's unflankable on the ground
- Doesn't have more than one person shooting them
...and you can't drop into a tree without being noticed? That sniper deserves being a hard target. In which case, you take down one of his pillars of support to create an opening.
I feel like I'm tutoring sniping here.
2coolforu
2011-07-11, 07:31 PM
That's awfully selfish, and it won't get rid of snipers it will make everyone spec it :/
You see it will remove snipers because more snipers will snipe to snipe other snipers in the head because its a one shot kill, then more snipers will snipe to kill those snipers easily
Oh my god, his logic, infinite loop
BZZZZT...FATAL ERROR.....
Firefly
2011-07-11, 07:37 PM
This subject is fucking retarded.
Still.
Dreamcast
2011-07-11, 09:10 PM
The point was, that the chances of ALL those happening at once was incredibly small. Of course I forgot to include liberators, tanks, flails and scorpions too.
And I'm pretty sure every base is flankable if you land on the right tree, but still, if you can't get a good angle then you wait for an allied sniper to shoot your target, or you move out of LOS of the enemy snipers. If an enemy sniper has...
- AA support
- Anti-cloaker support (a decent cloaker can have free-reign in a CY unless someone's doing DL patrols)
- A position that's unflankable on the ground
- Doesn't have more than one person shooting them
...and you can't drop into a tree without being noticed? That sniper deserves being a hard target. In which case, you take down one of his pillars of support to create an opening.
I feel like I'm tutoring sniping here.
Most people don't do that....I used to snipe from basses.....Most of the time is save haven, u just harrass snipers and either kill or weak infantry.
I know snipers can die...Thing is most of the time from my experience, if you were in base, and ur base still had lots of troops fighting, it will be hard to flank, or do anything remotely to kill you......basically you will have some harasser snipers and u will just heal yourself.
Not saying you can't kill snipers...You can but in some circumstances I felt like I could just heal my self each time I got shot and nothing could happen to me.
Meanwhile I just continue shooting/killing regular soldiers...while I got harassed once in a while...pretty much easy to be a sniper for me.
If headshots were included, atleast for snipers against snipers I wouldn't be able to kill infantry men.
Coyote
2011-07-11, 09:19 PM
If there are snipers, and they 1-shot kill abuncha people so they get pissed off and spec counter-sniper (which is actually a sniper) and they go and be snipers to shoot the other snipers who are trying now to shoot the counter-snipers....
Whos going to be left to capture the base?.... Or pilot the vehicles?.... Or do anything?
We all need to realize that the pool of available infantry at any given time is finite. To say that infantry would become nonexistent in face of snipers is obviously rubbish. But to say that fireteams, squads, platoons, companies, they would be hampered by the "lone wolf" attitude of the sniper, one more sniper means one less contributing member of the team.
Snipers are horrendously selfish classes. Lets just be honest here. The mentality of the "normal" sniper in video games is to get kills. That is all. Rarely do snipers do actual Recon work. Rarely do snipers actually contribute to the cause, rarely do snipers allow the battle to progress (hey if the fighting stops here that means I have to move to find other people to shoot, thats not good).
So all this talk of sniper-counter-sniper... we're forgetting that the actual sniper role is supposed to be a few people out there giving us grunts, tankers, flyboys, and Seabees information on what the hell is going on in the big picture.
As soon as you loose that mentality, and change it to "I will kill the enemy thus making me win", the game as a whole looses.
EDIT: I am full aware that Planetside snipers are not like what I have just described. I am talking the what-ifs of the future.
Dreamcast
2011-07-13, 07:11 PM
The indications is that their might be in.....I hope so but like I said make them hard to use....
Vancha
2011-07-13, 07:23 PM
Why would you ever bump this atrocity?
Yes, they're in. We know they're in...but we don't know in what form. They might not even be extra damage, but instead cause a blur effect or something. Either way, use the other headshot thread. This one just needs to go away. Forever.
Firefly
2011-07-13, 10:53 PM
Image courtesy of The Oatmeal. Quote courtesy of Planetside aka Dreamcast. Well, almost all of it.
http://www.the-bwc.com/imagez/sniper.jpg
Dreamcast
2011-07-13, 11:31 PM
Image courtesy of The Oatmeal. Quote courtesy of Planetside aka Dreamcast. Well, almost all of it.
http://www.the-bwc.com/imagez/sniper.jpg
Headshots are in.....umud?
Headshots are in.....umud?
At least there's bullet drop.
Dreamcast
2011-07-13, 11:35 PM
At least there's bullet drop.
Im glad their is....I would love if you had to sacrifice armor,health,accuracy,recoil,ammo per clip,Less body damage in order to get headshots.
I wanted to be part of the skill tree so not all people can have it and so you have to become weaker in other areas.
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