I haven't forgotten this:

[beekergunship]

EDIT: In light off the following conversation, I stand corrected. The owner of planetside2.com was indeed not doing anything but re-directing traffic and could not hold a fair use defense. I still hold to the belief that businesses would do better to not assume their customers are criminals. Thank you for the enlightening conversation.


http://bbod.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=671


Just a friendly reminder that SOE's lawyers still ruin their customers' experience.

Every time I visit planetside2.com, I'll be reminded of their dick move.

[Goku]

I wouldn't say thats ruining a customers' experience. Seems like a normal corporate letter to me anyway, showing they mean business. Though they could of asked more nicely. Stupid of them to of not registered it from the get go anyway.

[CutterJohn]

Their dick move of countering someone elses dick move?

[PsychoXR-20]

I don't see anything dickish about that letter. I'm no lawyer but it seems like lawyer speak to me, not being a dick, just being extremely clear, with no possibility of misinterpretation or reading between the lines/loopholes. The guy who received the letter claims that he would have just "handed it over" if SoE asked, so I gotta ask, why register it in the first place and pay money to keep the site running all for nothing?

[Bags]

Lawyers gonna law.

[morf]

http://bbod.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=671

Just a friendly reminder that SOE's lawyers still ruin their customers' experience.

Every time I visit planetside2.com, I'll be reminded of their dick move.

This happens 5000 times a day on the internet. You don't even need a lawyer to file a udrp complaint and it doesn't have to go to court. its something you agree to when you register the domain name, so the guy should have known the risks.

If he was using the domain for a purpose covered under fair use or if he had a legitimate claim to the name (like the software company that happens to be named planetside) they couldn't take it. But brand piggybacking for traffic with a similar or confusing domain name is cybersquatting. I've been on both ends of these disputes (personally and for a company I was representing) and have been lucky enough to win all 3 udrp cases I was involved in. Its nice that its an icann rule so it stretches even across international borders, so some toolbag in a third world country can't just register facenook.com and steal all your infoz.

[krnasaur]

I wont remember is at corporate assholery, i will remember it as SOE taking a squat on a cybersquatter.

[beekergunship]

Legal stuff aside, it is a case of shooting first and asking questions later. If this were handled differently I wouldn't be bringing it up two years later. I don't know what his purpose was. Don't know this Jekz guys. I suspect he was holding on to it so that he may be asked to relinquish it someday and in the meantime using it for people other than PSU lurkers to speculate any movement on that IP. Sometimes it isn't a money grubbing squatter--it might be a fan that doesn't mind spending the money to keep up the site. Then people like me are sympathetic.

They could have written a better letter that hinted further action, but acknowledged being a loyal fan to the franchise. Because then, he would have posted something different and everyone's response would have been positive.

I'll still play PS2, but I'll always wish some other company owned it instead.

[morf]

Legal stuff aside, it is a case of shooting first and asking questions later. If this were handled differently I wouldn't be bringing it up two years later. I don't know what his purpose was. Don't know this Jekz guys. I suspect he was holding on to it so that he may be asked to relinquish it someday and in the meantime using it for people other than PSU lurkers to speculate any movement on that IP. Sometimes it isn't a money grubbing squatter--it might be a fan that doesn't mind spending the money to keep up the site. Then people like me are sympathetic.

They could have written a better letter that hinted further action, but acknowledged being a loyal fan to the franchise. Because then, he would have posted something different and everyone's response would have been positive.

I'll still play PS2, but I'll always wish some other company owned it instead.

I feel you to a certain extent but you don't hire lawyers to play softball and make concessions. The purpose of the letter is to exert your legal rights. Having some pr guy come off half cocked writing a "more friendly" version of that letter is a really good way to get introuble.

[Bags]

Legal stuff aside, it is a case of shooting first and asking questions later. If this were handled differently I wouldn't be bringing it up two years later. I don't know what his purpose was. Don't know this Jekz guys. I suspect he was holding on to it so that he may be asked to relinquish it someday and in the meantime using it for people other than PSU lurkers to speculate any movement on that IP. Sometimes it isn't a money grubbing squatter--it might be a fan that doesn't mind spending the money to keep up the site. Then people like me are sympathetic.

They could have written a better letter that hinted further action, but acknowledged being a loyal fan to the franchise. Because then, he would have posted something different and everyone's response would have been positive.

I'll still play PS2, but I'll always wish some other company owned it instead.

So because their legal department did what it's supposed to do you're mad at SOE?

jesus. people look for any reason to hate the man.

Squatters gonna get squatted. Why buy the domain if you plan to hand it over? hmm?

[beekergunship]

I feel you to a certain extent but you don't hire lawyers to play softball and make concessions. The purpose of the letter is to exert your legal rights. Having some pr guy come off half cocked writing a "more friendly" version of that letter is a really good way to get introuble.

No, I disagree. This is what PR guys are for. Before it goes to the mail room it gets a once over by legal.

Before I defend this stranger anymore, does anyone remember what was on that site? I used the wayback machine, and I do see a redirect from 2005. If that was the case, I'll reconsider my position.

[LordReaver]

I think Jekz is female.

[Brigand]

I'm not really seeing the problem here. Thats all lawyer stuff. They went for being clear and concise over being nice, so there's no confusion and no issues down the line. They're laying out exactly what they're doing and why. It's not dickishness, it's legality.

[Raymac]

This is just a basic cease and desist letter. Nothing special. Welcome to the real world.

[Firefly]

No, I disagree. This is what PR guys are for. Before it goes to the mail room it gets a once over by legal.
A corporate legal department exists for three things: 1) protecting employees, 2) advising the company on how to proceed in legal, trade, copyright isssues, and 3) telling IP-thieves to knock it the fuck off. You don't send your hate-mail to PR. What the fuck? Are you Canadian or a tree-hugging liberal? Seriously - have you NEVER seen a fucking cease & desist letter? They're LAWYERS. They don't HAVE to be nice. The law is on their side and cocksucking blue falcons that don't understand that don't need kumbaya singing hand-holding, they need a sternly-written warning.

"Dear Osama: please, sir, don't be mad at us. We want you to be happy and feel good. But we want to feel happy and good. I believe that we can be friends and that we can coexist in peace, love and harmony. Please, sir, don't send bombs over here, it kills not just us but it also kills the person sending it. And we love everyone. Including you, sir. Jesus loves you. Allah loves you. Mohammed loves you. Beekergunship loves you. He even went outside and picked some Canadian flowers from his Peace & Liberal Garden. Why don't you meet us in a safe, well-lit neutral spot and we can have a nice cup of warm milk? We can sing songs, hold hands, share good vibes, and admire the sunshine and the pointy-eared elves frolicking in the meadow."

[beekergunship]

Dear Osama: please, sir, don't be mad at us. We want you to be happy and feel good.

Um. No. I'm a veteran who was at Tora Bora skipping 105's into caves. Sorry to get internet tough guy on you but I have a serious point:

So what if there is a Planetside 3? And they want to be trendy and call it Planetside Universe, a la Tribes Universe, are you saying they are within their rights to just seize this site on a whim? That doesn't seem right.

When they said they were going to have an API available to accommodate applications I seriously thought of developing one. But if I'm going to be sued for looking at Sony the wrong way, screw it.

[Volw]

Um. No. I'm a veteran who was at Tora Bora skipping 105's into caves. Sorry to get internet tough guy on you but I have a serious point:

So what if there is a Planetside 3? And they want to be trendy and call it Planetside Universe, a la Tribes Universe, are you saying they are within their rights to just seize this site on a whim? That doesn't seem right.

When they said they were going to have an API available to accommodate applications I seriously thought of developing one. But if I'm going to be sued for looking at Sony the wrong way, screw it.

No it won't. PSU would not be considered as a cybersquatter.

Cybersquatting - the practice of registering an internet domain name that is likely to be wanted by another person, business, or organization in the hope that it can be sold to them for a profit

[Gwartham]

Yah not for sure what world the op lives in, or maybe its because I deal with this stuff all day, but to me thats just a standard cya cybersquatting letter.

[beekergunship]

Definitely not in a world where I deal with cease and desist letters all day. So, this isn't so obvious to me. I do live in a world where you catch more customers using molasses instead of vinegar.

Another question: if back in 2005-ish Planetside2.com was registered as a site where fans of Planetside could discuss what might have been like the Idea Labs, with certainty that SOE was not going to develop another PS game. A fan-fiction site, if you will. Would that still be considered cyber-squatting or fair use?

It seems people in the IP business are commenting on this thread, so educate me.

[Gwartham]

There has to be a "bad faith" contingency associated with the claim, generally associated with either attempting to profit directly from the trademark, or what we run into more commonly which is domain blackmailing.

As a general rule tho, anything associated with what could be associated with a trademark and a potential sequel to that trademark is generally not a good idea to attempt to register.

Fact is most major companies register their domains via special companies that also work on the companies behalf to protect the companies trademark, and these companies will immediately go after anything they see as a potential trademark infringement without even consulting the originating company.

Prime example markmonitor.com

[Volw]

I'm not a professional, just deal with a lot of patent attorneys and corporate lawyers (sadly).

Firstly, it's using a name that is trademark protected, so it could be pretty much taken down based on this fact only. It's like naming a website microsoft2.com

Obviously the intent could be used as a mitigating circumstance, however, it would be hard to justify why the owner of the domain assumed no sequel would be made only two years after release.

[Gwartham]

You also have to remember that all these ICANN laws and policies are in place because of the shit that has happened in the past.

It was a very common thing in the early days of domain registration to buy up a ton of domain names and then before the laws you could blackmail companies into paying large sums of money for that domain.

Fact is ignorant people still do this today, hence why generally the cease letters are pretty strong.

[Firefly]

Um. No. I'm a veteran who was at Tora Bora
What a small world.

And they want to be trendy and call it Planetside Universe, a la Tribes Universe, are you saying they are within their rights to just seize this site on a whim? That doesn't seem right.
That's almost exactly what I'm saying. If I went out and made a website called "planetside5.com", I'd be getting my asshole ready for some C&D sodomy. Just because it's not a touchy-feely "lemme stroke your dick" letter doesn't mean it's not perfectly within SOE's right. You think SOE is bad? Try Games Workshop. I got a C&D from them for making a Space Marine costume until I explained that it was for personal and private use, and there was no way in hell I was making a dime off it. They don't fuck around. A C&D is a warning shot across the bow - you don't use flowery speech when you're about to go to war.

Obviously the intent could be used as a mitigating circumstance, however, it would be hard to justify why the owner of the domain assumed no sequel would be made only two years after release.
It would be virtually impossible. Pretty much everyone presumed there would be some sort of sequel.

[Gwartham]

Truth is there is a huge area for a company to go after you for trademark and branding.

Prime example, try and find domains with the word "Yahoo" in it that aren't registered via markmonitor.

fuckyahoo.com still gives me chuckles.

[Redshift]

Just sounds like lawyers letter tbh, i'd expect the same from any company

[Rbstr]

So what if there is a Planetside 3? And they want to be trendy and call it Planetside Universe, a la Tribes Universe, are you saying they are within their rights to just seize this site on a whim? That doesn't seem right.

This is actually a great counter-example. PSU has exited since before PS was sold and has a easily verifiable history. It falls under the fair use clauses. It's not a cyber squatter. SOE has also tolerated its existence for too long. You typically have to enforce your trademark/copyright claims when you become aware of them.

If planetside-universe.com was at planetside2.com instead, things would have been approached differently.

[basti]

There is even more there.

Planetside Universe is a fan site with a forum, news about the game and a strong community.
Planetside2.com was just a single html page with some random images, nothing to do with planetside at all.

[morf]

There is even more there.

Planetside Universe is a fan site with a forum, news about the game and a strong community.
Planetside2.com was just a single html page with some random images, nothing to do with planetside at all.

Right. The deal is that PSU has invested time in branding the site and establishing an identity as well as a legitimate claim and interest associated with the name "Planetside Universe" - they aren't just piggybacking on a brand to steal business away or otherwise confuse customers.

If anyone is genuinely interested in learning about this, you can read archived UDRP decisions to see how these things are settled here:

http://domains.adrforum.com/domains/decisions.asp

It is actually pretty interesting stuff. Now these aren't lawsuits, they are UDRP complaints where an ICANN approved arbitration panel will decide the fate of the domain name. So no damages are awarded through this process. The owner of the intellectual property can still sue in regular court for damages, but this is a cheap and streamlined way to seize offending domain names. It also can be used across international borders, so in general it is much more flexible than a regular lawsuit.

[Hamma]

Glad you haven't forgotten it OP, we all have.

SOE was well within their rights to reclaim that domain.