Proportionate XP

[Sco]

Something that annoys me about PS1 is the lack of proportionate XP. Currently, we only receive XP based on the final blow and "kill-shot". This often results in one person doing 99% of the damage to have someone else coming in at the last second, firing one round and getting the kill.

This too results in people holding off firing to the last 10% health - shooting prior this could be deemed pointless unless you get the final kill. This is why having the heath bar of an opponent is so fundamental within PS1. It also makes sniping annoying as often people will wait for one sniper to hit for them to take the kill. Most people will have at some point been on both sides of this and it may or may not balance out.

I hope that XP will be distributed on a proportionate basis. Yes, the final blow should be worth something, but other players should also be rewarded for doing damage. This could be with a proportionate assist XP. For example, if the person did 45% of damage to the vehicle, they gets a 45% assist multiplier on the kill. This could be total kill value multiplied by 75% for non killing blow multiplied by 45% for proportionate damage. Will be interesting to see if any consideration will be given to this.

Sco

[Goku]

I don't want to see this kind of system in place to be honest. When it comes down to it the person who got the last shot just got the kill regardless. You can still get plently of XP even if some KSes you in PS. I bet you could get more exp with your system by being in a tank and just shotting a butt load of random enemy targets and farming off the XP for the kill you did not get. No thanks.

[2coolforu]

There's nothing more annoying than having an epic battle with a Vanguard/Magrider/Prowler only to have a mossie fly in when it's on its last millimeter of health and steal the kill.

The only problem is it's probably quite a big server load to keep track of every HP damage and who dealt it. Perhaps there should be a system similar to Bad Company 2 where you get two types of assist, one for doing slight damage (small amount of xp) and one for doing the majority of the damage (nearly all the xp of an actual kill) along with other forms of assists e.g. healing someone and having them go on to kill someone gives you points, giving people health and ammo and repairing tanks gives xp, these are all types of experience I would like to see in Planetside 2

[DviddLeff]

At the very least you should get something for doing ~50% of damage to an enemy who dies shortly after.

[xcel]

I am in favor of assist xp.

[CutterJohn]

A straightforward damage = xp is my preference. No complex rules. You earn for how much you do, whether you kill them or just drive them off to repair.

[basti]

My opionions:
For xp: you to x% of damage, you get x% of XP, with no bonus for doing the kill.

for kills: if you do the last hit and kill the enemy, you get a kill. If you did at least x% of the damage but didnt do the final hit, you get an assist. But if you did more than 80% of the damage damage to a target, but didnt score the final hit, YOU get the kill and those who did less damage get the assist.

[Aractain]

A straightforward damage = xp is my preference. No complex rules. You earn for how much you do, whether you kill them or just drive them off to repair.

That there. What he said. Repeat All On.

[Gandhi]

A straightforward damage = xp is my preference. No complex rules. You earn for how much you do, whether you kill them or just drive them off to repair.
Wouldn't that mean a great flood of XP from a single bombing run, or spamming tank shells into the front line? Seems really biased toward area effect weapons.

[Sco]

I think any form of proportionate system will be better - it is important that the developers are aware of the current annoyance and thinking about modernising it. Whether it be a straight % xp or assist xp - either one will be a step forward compared to the current "last hit takes all approach"

[Aractain]

Wouldn't that mean a great flood of XP from a single bombing run, or spamming tank shells into the front line? Seems really biased toward area effect weapons.


AOE weapons would get like 20% XP (blaanced per weapon ofcourse), easy.

How hard will BR be to get up now anyway since it just unlocks a new 'tech level'?

[Bags]

I hate ps1's system because it encouraged waiting for the last hit. Vehicles die exponentially faster when they hit 30% hp.

[bkx]

IMO a kill should be a kill, worth the same amount of points no matter if you do 1% or 100% of the damage.

I do like BF's system of kill assists and critical kill assists, though. In BF, assists are worth almost as many points as the kill, and getting a fat chunk of points from an assist does a lot to make killstealers more bearable.

[Bags]

Q: If the xp system is largely the same, will there be an assist system of some sort? Nothing was more frustrating than getting a tank to 10% only to have a reaver swoop in and KS. That or some sort of xp system based on damage would be cool.
Any plans for a "priority" based kill spam Ala TF2? It'd be really nice for your kills, your squadmates' kills, and their deaths to hang around in the kill spam longer than some random dude's death to a spitfire.
[Experience, killspam]
Matt: yes and yes

[Sco]

Q: If the xp system is largely the same, will there be an assist system of some sort? Nothing was more frustrating than getting a tank to 10% only to have a reaver swoop in and KS. That or some sort of xp system based on damage would be cool.
Any plans for a "priority" based kill spam Ala TF2? It'd be really nice for your kills, your squadmates' kills, and their deaths to hang around in the kill spam longer than some random dude's death to a spitfire.
[Experience, killspam]
Matt: yes and yes

Looking forward to some more elaboration on this one - don't be shy Matt! :D

[Forsaken One]

I think Bf would have it done well here. the way I see it is everyone who helps should get about the same XP. It encourages teamwork, helps lesser guys/weaker guys level by helping a high leveled guy/more powerful guy and overall other then a stat leaderboard which I truthfully couldn't give a damn about there would be no real downside to it.

[Redshift]

i've always looked at it as balancing out, i figure there's plenty of times i've nicked a kill in 1 bullet and there's plenty they're taken from me.

but i do see your point, it's especially obvious with vehicles, everyone is trying to get the last shot when they're near dead, heck i've nicked a BFR kill with a repeater before :P

[Sco]

heck i've nicked a BFR kill with a repeater before :P

Good effort!

[Soothsayer]

Yeah PS2 needs better tracking for kill assists. To say that its too much for a db to track, then they need to come up with a better db that can track them.

Maybe it was too much to track in 2003, but we're living in the future now...

[Sco]

Should be a fairly simple algorithm to calculate - it is just a couple steps beyond what PS1 currently does.

As far as the data/networking goes - it seems like the devs were suggesting that masses of tracking will be going on in the background. Proportionate XP, to me, is more important than knowing how many mosquitos ive shot with a repeater, how many maxes ive bummed with my phoenix or how many pink bunnies I have tea-bagged!

Saying that, tea-bagging pink bunnies would be an interesting stat to track!

[Redshift]

Saying that, tea-bagging pink bunnies would be an interesting stat to track!

i think you've just worked out how rabbit events will be handled.....

[Death2All]

Totally in favor of an assist XP system based off of damage done. Nothing sucks more than putting a million shots into a full GG only to have some random asshole come out of nowhere and steal the kill with a Beamer. Very annoying.

Although someone in this thread pointed out that it could take a lot of out the server to process all this information. But I would still really like to see this. Getting your kill stolen and getting no XP for it sucks :mad:!

[Higby]

We're doing assist XP, it'll affect for kills earned by your squad greater than outside your squad, but there will be some bonus for outside of squad assists also. There will be some graduation to it as well, if you do 90% of the damage to an enemy and someone swings in and finishes them off you'd get more than if you just randomly hit an enemy with one bullet in a massive firefight.

[Desoxy]

Very good to hear.. I have been getting pretty angry at that while revisiting ps1 in the last days.. :clap:

[Grimster]

Sounds awesome Matt. This is something that also has annoyed me off and on in PS1. Especially when I am suited with my AA MAX and I almost bring down a fully loaded Galaxy and some dipwit in a mosque lands the final blow with his bb gun. :)

[basti]

We're doing assist XP, it'll affect for kills earned by your squad greater than outside your squad, but there will be some bonus for outside of squad assists also. There will be some graduation to it as well, if you do 90% of the damage to an enemy and someone swings in and finishes them off you'd get more than if you just randomly hit an enemy with one bullet in a massive firefight.

Just make sure you limit it properly, otherwise people would just spam explosives like crazy to get fast XP. :>

[Goku]

Just make sure you limit it properly, otherwise people would just spam explosives like crazy to get fast XP. :>

This is my concern as well. If there is anything like Plasma Thumper in this game prior to its nerf in PS2, well you can see where that will go.

[Tigersmith]

This sounds like any spam type of weapon is gonna be amazing to get XP on.

Maelstrom, Plasma you name it. you can easily do 50% of the damage on 1 shot in Planetside 1.

There should be some diminishing returns on this.

[Bags]

Or just remove the Thumper! Yes, I like that plan.

[Death2All]

Or just remove the Thumper! Yes, I like that plan.

But how would we tactically suppress the tactical enemy in a tactical manner tactically?

[Bags]

But how would we tactically suppress the tactical enemy in a tactical manner tactically?

With tactical knifing, obviously.

In all seriousness, I'm sure splash weaponry won't get much assist xp.

[Tigersmith]

With tactical knifing, obviously.

In all seriousness, I'm sure splash weaponry won't get much assist xp.

yea im sure they thought of this too. almost automatic when you think of assist XP.

Spam weapons should get lower xp for assists. that solves the issue

[kaffis]

Just make sure you limit it properly, otherwise people would just spam explosives like crazy to get fast XP. :>
I'm having a tough time figuring out what the problem here is. If you're doing lots of aggregate damage, and people are actually dying (so it's not just "I do 1000 damage by doing 2 damage to 500 players with a carpet-bombing of mace"), how is this not to be rewarded?

I understand not wanting to reward damage done if it's not contributing to the person, you know, actually dying. But if it is -- why should one weapon's damage be "worth" more?

In any case, Kudos, PS2 devs, for getting on board the assist train. I really like the idea of getting more experience for assisting squadmates, too.

Quick follow-up: Can more than one person be awarded assist experience (say, A does 40%, B does 50%, and C finishes off with the final 10%)? If not, is it based on who the last assister to help was, or which assister did the most damage? I understand that this might be a moving target, developmentally, so I'm okay with just hearing personal thoughts at this time that factor into the ongoing design discussion.

[Traak]

yea im sure they thought of this too. almost automatic when you think of assist XP.

Spam weapons should get lower xp for assists. that solves the issue

Spam weapons should get just as much xp for assists as any other weapon.

In fact, I would like to see XP for kills assisted by spamming jammer grenades to turn off the enemy's invincibility implants PS and SW, along with any other implants, which makes them easier to kill. Using a thumper to do that is a great help in chokepoint fights, and it is rarely used.

[Traak]

Totally in favor of an assist XP system based off of damage done. Nothing sucks more than putting a million shots into a full GG only to have some random asshole come out of nowhere and steal the kill with a Beamer. Very annoying.

Or put a hundred rounds into an enemy softie and have someone jump in front to give you big grief while they get to to steal the kill. This was a sort of standard operating procedure for some.

Yes, let's not structure things to reward cheating, weasely, traitorous scum.

[Death2All]

Oh wow, Higby posted in this thread and I didn't even notice. Hours upon hours of reading random information has left me braindead. Glad we can get some clarification on how the XP system works!

[DashRev]

Just make sure you limit it properly, otherwise people would just spam explosives like crazy to get fast XP. :>

That is more of an aspect of weapon balancing than xp balancing. With weighted assist experience, the xp you receive is proportional to your raw damage output, provided that the target actually dies.

If a weapon is earning a player too much experience, it's because the weapon is too effective at dealing damage.

[Straws]

Thanks for confirming this Matt. The 'Kill Assists' is one of those ideas that players have been screaming out for pretty long time (http://web.archive.org/web/20040411194728/http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside/Forum10/HTML/012153.html).

I'm very happy it'll happen. After all, the teamplay aspect of PS was suppose to transcend squad and platoon play, those features were meant for organisation :)

[Goku]

But how would we tactically suppress the tactical enemy in a tactical manner tactically?

VS will be all set if there is anything like the Lasher in the game. NC/TR need something.

[Bags]

VS will be all set if there is anything like the Lasher in the game. NC/TR need something.

Two words: Bouncing bullets.

[Death2All]

Two words: Bouncing bullets.

Hopefully we can get an Angelina Jolie implant that allows us to bend bullets around corners....and have luscious lips.

[Chufty]

We're doing assist XP, it'll affect for kills earned by your squad greater than outside your squad, but there will be some bonus for outside of squad assists also. There will be some graduation to it as well, if you do 90% of the damage to an enemy and someone swings in and finishes them off you'd get more than if you just randomly hit an enemy with one bullet in a massive firefight.

Good stuff! It really sounds like you guys are giving thought to the little details, which is great to hear.

[Baneblade]

So long as spam aoe weapons cost xp when they hit friendlies...

[Death2All]

So long as spam aoe weapons cost xp when they hit friendlies...

That would be awesome. Thumper spam one too many friendlies and suddenly you're BR -5.

[Hamma]

Oh wow, Higby posted in this thread and I didn't even notice. Hours upon hours of reading random information has left me braindead. Glad we can get some clarification on how the XP system works!

http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/gviptracker.php

Never miss a dev post again ;)

[Bags]

Wouldn't want to miss posts like this: http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showpost.php?p=578259&postcount=58

:p

[kaffis]

Wouldn't want to miss posts like this: http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showpost.php?p=578259&postcount=58

:p
Well, it's called the Very Important Person tracker, not the Very Important Post tracker for a reason...

[Timey]

Without adding absolutely to the topic, I'll just say bc2 handled this quite well (50 for a kill, 30 for a critical assist, 10 for assist IIRC).

[Death2All]

Wouldn't want to miss posts like this: http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showpost.php?p=578259&postcount=58

:p

Are you trying to say Higby's love isn't important?

[Lunarchild]

We're doing assist XP, it'll affect for kills earned by your squad greater than outside your squad, but there will be some bonus for outside of squad assists also. There will be some graduation to it as well, if you do 90% of the damage to an enemy and someone swings in and finishes them off you'd get more than if you just randomly hit an enemy with one bullet in a massive firefight.

So, will the graduation be by amount of health taken before death, or percentage of damage done?

Example: You do 90% damage, and then someone else finished the guy off with a sniper headshot, doing 120% damage in one shot. Will the graduation be calculated off of the 100% of health he originally had, or the 210% total damage he took?

On the other hand, how about healing / repairing?

Example: You do 90% damage, he heals / repairs back to full health / armor, then someone else one-shots for 120% damage.

[Baneblade]

So, will the graduation be by amount of health taken before death, or percentage of damage done?

Example: You do 90% damage, and then someone else finished the guy off with a sniper headshot, doing 120% damage in one shot. Will the graduation be calculated off of the 100% of health he originally had, or the 210% total damage he took?

On the other hand, how about healing / repairing?

Example: You do 90% damage, he heals / repairs back to full health / armor, then someone else one-shots for 120% damage.

I would hope that repairing would cancel out the XP leeching. No need for an all star to be racking up thousands of assist XP for a bunch or the enemy, then have a BR explosion once he dies.

[Lonehunter]

I think the way they balance this not being in the game is Squad xp.
On one hand you can get kill stole, but on the other awarded free xp for every squad kill.

[kaffis]

Squad xp serves a different purpose, though, Lonehunter187. Squad xp is to reward support roles for enabling their squad grunts and gunners to function effectively. The troop transporters, ANT-drivers, ANT escorts, etc. are worth playing because you get squad xp.

[Death2All]

Personally, I'd like to see the kill rewarded to the player who did the most damage not who go the last shot in. But more XP based off damage works well too.

Some of are egotistical and have to compensate for our smaller reproductive organs however..