From one Vet to another.

[IceyCold]

I'd like to make a post to all my fellow veterans, and hopefully to get a dialog going amongst us to get a few people thinking.

I've lurked on these forums for years and just registered today to start getting into the discussions on this forum since now more than ever it seems SOE is starting to listen to the players. But this can be both a blessing and a curse.

What we veterans remember of Planetside is a game we still love, we would not be here if we didn't. This game to me at least is the best game ever, and personally no game will ever take that title away. And as much as I want to hold on to some of the things that Planetside had I am willing to listen and try to understand the Devs decisions and choices.

But I will voice my opinion sternly. And we all should.

However let us remember that this game we love so much is coming into a new era and it must keep up with the shooters of today to survive. We as veterans MUST be able to let some things go, and be willing to embrace some of the changes to at least some extent. At the same time we need to carefully examine the things that the current market may like that Planetside 2 can go against and even plow it's own way to make it different and unique; just as it's predecessor did before it. Not everything the Devs have announced sounds good to us veterans, but that is not always bad. Change can be good, but only change where it was necessary.

This brings me to my biggest point.

We the veterans and lovers of this game; we must be both vocal advocates and at the same time avid listeners. And instead of raging about the changes ask for more information and even offer alternatives that appeal to both us and even the COD kiddies that will inevitably find their way to our beloved game. We may even be able to take these people that we seem to despise under our wing and show them what a REAL shooter is. In the end no matter what game someone played before, the moment they begin to play Planetside we should see them as our brothers; new blood is what this game needs and we as veterans should welcome them and teach them about this game we love so much.

Beta is soon, and SOE seems for the first time poised to listen and take our advice. We need to give them the best advice we can for the sake of the GAME, not for OURSELVES. I don't want this to come off as a rant but more as a bit of food for thought for those of us who may be too set in the way we think; for this game to succeed it has to evolve with the times, but it doesn't have to change completely.

Thanks guys (and gals).

[xcel]

HAZZZZAH!

[Aractain]

I have always been pro-progress. Just leave the dumb crap out (like nukes from killstreaks).

[DviddLeff]

Good post, exactly why I made this post earlier today:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36453

[IceyCold]

Good post, exactly why I made this post earlier today:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36453

I saw that post earlier Dvidd, and I made my post because many people seem to be angry that there is change at all.

I look forward to beta, and you best believe I will be constantly submitting my opinions and ideas.

I just want everyone to be open and not dismiss this game on a few problems, instead we should be trying to add our ideas and talking with the developers.

[Bags]

I'm all for progress, but there needs to be a good reason for change other than, "BUT COD DOES IT!".

[IceyCold]

I'm all for progress, but there needs to be a good reason for change other than, "BUT COD DOES IT!".

Absolutely, but instead of thinking of it as "But COD does it!" we should be asking "Why does it do that?"

I'm currently in College myself for Video Game development, and one of the biggest things your taught is to look at other games and constantly ask "why". And there is a good reason to do so, COD is successful as hell and it would be stupid not to look at WHY it is. You do not need to copy something to understand the basic concept of it and use it in another fashion to accomplish the same success.

If we do that we can then come up with Alternatives that accomplish the same result in the players enjoyment while still keeping the Planetside feel to that feature. Many things COD does right, are very simplistic and could be done in a much more deep and developed manner which could then be applied to Planetside 2.

That is what we need to be focusing on, is how to learn from the current market to make Planetside 2 both easy to get into for new players, and deep enough to keep them coming back.

[Bags]

Absolutely, but instead of thinking of it as "But COD does it!" we should be asking "Why does it do that?"

I'm currently in College myself for Video Game development, and one of the biggest things your taught is to look at other games and constantly ask "why". And there is a good reason to do so, COD is successful as hell and it would be stupid not to look at WHY it is. You do not need to copy something to understand the basic concept of it and use it in another fashion to accomplish the same success.

If we do that we can then come up with Alternatives that accomplish the same result in the players enjoyment while still keeping the Planetside feel to that feature. Many things COD does right, are very simplistic and could be done in a much more deep and developed manner which could then be applied to Planetside 2.

That is what we need to be focusing on, is how to learn from the current market to make Planetside 2 both easy to get into for new players, and deep enough to keep them coming back.

When I try to think of why COD does anything I am always stumped. Nothing in it makes sense to me.

[IceyCold]

When I try to think of why COD does anything I am always stumped. Nothing in it makes sense to me.

Well one thing for certain, COD does small scale combat fairly well. Some things like the "Super Knife Slide" are absolutely ridiculous but in actual shooter mechanics it feels very active and fluid.

We can take this and say to ourselves: "Players enjoy being able to maneuver around the battlefield quickly and the intensity of the quick combat."

Now we ask ourselves, what are Planetside's and COD's differences on the moment to moment scale in regard to this feature?

For one Planetside is much larger, so more people are shootng at you in most cases. Because of this we can assume that the 1-2 shots and your dead TTK of COD will not work. But players still want the visceral feedback of watching their bullets take down an opponent in a decent amount of time so the old Planetside TTK is too long. So now we need to find a balance. This is where the beta testing comes in. Tweak it till it's right.

Who knows, maybe with new server tech and less ping dependency we might find the Planetside TTK works perfect for Planetside 2; I am actually personally curious to see how that plays out.

Next we ask ourselves will a sprint work for Planetside 2 much like it does for COD?

And yes it could very well, as long as it is not the stupid infinite sprint that they have in COD. Planetside is a tactical game, and being able to sprint can add to that. COD is an arena game, so their sprint is much too ridiculous for PS2. So we once again tweak this mechanic, and the stamina pool it may be attached to. Maybe they could add a Cert tree for physical training which allows your player to sprint just a small bit faster, or for a little bit longer; maybe even lighter armor infantry can sprint longer than heavy armored infantry. Thus making hit and run tactics a bit more viable for the lighter guys.

All of this from a simple question: "Why do people like the gun combat in COD?"

[Bags]

Enhanced targeting lets you know you're doing damage. I'm fine with a sprint; surge was damn near mandatory in PS1.

[IceyCold]

Enhanced targeting lets you know you're doing damage. I'm fine with a sprint; surge was damn near mandatory in PS1.

Watching a bar deplete is boring to a good many people. Honestly you have to consider the type of effect feedback has on the average player.

One of the biggest complaints I would hear from friends I tried to get into the first Planetside was "How many fucking bullets can that guy take?!?" or "This is stupid, my gun sucks. It does no damage!"

I would then have to tell them, "Once you get to BR 6 you can get an implant to see people's health. You are damaging them."

The response was almost unanimously "So I have to deal with this till I can get an upgrade to see how close I almost got to killing them with my weak gun?"

It was a valid point in their minds, they didn't get any feedback for their efforts and thus they didn't like the game. And they would not play it.

I don't mind personally being a bit more squishy and having to use cover more often if it means the game will have more subs and a more active playerbase. Plus we have to remember that one major reason Planetside 2 might not suffer from short TTK is that they are designing the game FOR that style of play. The first one was not.

Personally Bags I would have no problem if the Planetside 2 ttk is the same as the first one, like I said before with new server tech and less warping the PS TTK might work out just fine. I'm just saying I'm willing to be open to the concept and test it out in Beta.

[Bags]

Watching a bar deplete is boring to a good many people. Honestly you have to consider the type of effect feedback has on the average player.
11 million WoW players beg to differ. ^_^
One of the biggest complaints I would hear from friends I tried to get into the first Planetside was "How many fucking bullets can that guy take?!?" or "This is stupid, my gun sucks. It does no damage!"
I've never heard this, but it doesn't seem too unreasonable.
I would then have to tell them, "Once you get to BR 6 you can get an implant to see people's health. You are damaging them."
I think that adv targetting should just be baseline.
The response was almost unanimously "So I have to deal with this till I can get an upgrade to see how close I almost got to killing them with my weak gun?"

It was a valid point in their minds, they didn't get any feedback for their efforts and thus they didn't like the game. And they would not play it.
.

Response in red. I'm not against faster TTK, I'm against COD TTK.

[LostSoul]

I always hoped, and still hope, for a worthy successor to Planetside. Never have I hoped or asked for a remake of the original game.

With all its brilliance it has allot of flaws, I embrace change for it is the future.

[IceyCold]

Response in red. I'm not against faster TTK, I'm against COD TTK.

11 million WoW players are playing an MMORPG, not an MMOFPS; to use that as an argument seems rather silly so I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. 11 million WoW players also like that a high level player can not be killed by a player even 5 levels under them, should we also take this to mean PS2 should do the same?

I have also said in every single post I am against a COD TTK so I don't know why you seem to keep bringing that up in reference to my discussion with you? I don not think anyone would want a COD TTK in Planetside 2 because it would be down right ridiculous. Not to mention negate the different armor types completely.

[Bags]

11 million WoW players are playing an MMORPG, not an MMOFPS; to use that as an argument seems rather silly so I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. 11 million WoW players also like that a high level player can not be killed by a player even 5 levels under them, should we also take this to mean PS2 should do the same?

I have also said in every single post I am against a COD TTK so I don't know why you seem to keep bringing that up in reference to my discussion with you? I don not think anyone would want a COD TTK in Planetside 2 because it would be down right ridiculous. Not to mention negate the different armor types completely.

The comment was rather tongue-in-cheek. Though a lot of people did quit PS for WoW.

[IceyCold]

The comment was rather tongue-in-cheek. Though a lot of people did quit PS for WoW.

Pft, their loss. :P

[Firefly]

Hey, you're a vet?

That's awesome. Lemme ask you a question.

My cat has a hairball but it won't come up. Is there a way to force it out? Or do I just have to wait? Because hearing "KKKKHHHHHAAAAKKK!! KKKKHHHHHAAAAKKK!!" at fucking 3am is really goddamned annoying.

Thanks in advance.



PS: WoW has 11mil people who have or have had an account. That's not 11mil subscribers all at once.

[Forsaken One]

I wouldn't mind faster based combat but at the same time Planetside2 needs to remain unique to keep its playerbase. If its just say a Cod/bf clone guess whats going to happen when the next cod/bf comes out? riight. no more playerbase. unlike Planetside where if it got off with the knowing/advertising/etc it should have Planetside might even be competing with WoW in a playerbase level.

I will admit I didn't even know Planetside existed till the reserves. Yet even through I'm not a RPG player nor did I ever play or care about WoW I knew that existed.

But I am going to also admit. I do like Cod:MW1 gunfights. people die when they get shot. I hate zerging but I love when people die fast enough that no stupidity can save them skill or not. (aka bunny hopping/strafing/etc.)

if they can have people die like that while also not having zerging I think it might be pretty good. as they won't bum rush, suppression fire will suppress without explosives. It might end up done very well.

[Vancha]

One of the biggest complaints I would hear from friends I tried to get into the first Planetside was "How many fucking bullets can that guy take?!?" or "This is stupid, my gun sucks. It does no damage!"
While I'm sure there are good examples of long TTKs being a detriment, this is not one of them. I've heard that same lament from newbie FPS players the world over, and it's usually due to a lack of ability, rather than bad game design.

I played DoD:Source today and found a prime example of a game with too low a TTK. I was new, I was terrible and yet I did fairly well, simply because the ease of which people died meant it was hard NOT to be somewhat successful. This also meant that the best players who deserved to be doing better ended up dying to a lot of random sprays of bullets.

I'd rather have people whining that they can't land enough lucky shots to get a kill than have everyone doing well because kills are inevitable (which isn't to say I'm against a lower TTK in PS2...Just not that low).

[Bags]

PS: WoW has 11mil people who have or have had an account. That's not 11mil subscribers all at once.

No, they defined it as active accounts. It's doubtful they actually have 11 million individuals playing (multi boxing) but their number was defined by active accounts.

It was 12 million last they announced it but they've hinted that it dropped down to pre-cata levels.

[IceyCold]

Hey, you're a vet?

That's awesome. Lemme ask you a question.

My cat has a hairball but it won't come up. Is there a way to force it out? Or do I just have to wait? Because hearing "KKKKHHHHHAAAAKKK!! KKKKHHHHHAAAAKKK!!" at fucking 3am is really goddamned annoying.

Thanks in advance.



PS: WoW has 11mil people who have or have had an account. That's not 11mil subscribers all at once.

Shoot the cat, sell the hairball, profit.

[DviddLeff]

I wouldn't mind faster based combat but at the same time Planetside2 needs to remain unique to keep its playerbase. If its just say a Cod/bf clone guess whats going to happen when the next cod/bf comes out? riight. no more playerbase.

Will the next COD/BF have thousand player fights, platoons, outfits, 5km square maps?

No it wont; if the game play mechanics are appealing enough to the "popular" FPS crowd, those key features of Planetside may keep them coming back even when the new games come out.

[IceyCold]

While I'm sure there are good examples of long TTKs being a detriment, this is not one of them. I've heard that same lament from newbie FPS players the world over, and it's usually due to a lack of ability, rather than bad game design.

I played DoD:Source today and found a prime example of a game with too low a TTK. I was new, I was terrible and yet I did fairly well, simply because the ease of which people died meant it was hard NOT to be somewhat successful. This also meant that the best players who deserved to be doing better ended up dying to a lot of random sprays of bullets.

I'd rather have people whining that they can't land enough lucky shots to get a kill than have everyone doing well because kills are inevitable (which isn't to say I'm against a lower TTK in PS2...Just not that low).

I don't want people dieing in 2 shots from assault rifles, (Once again that would really destroy the reason for armor classes.)

And once again, for all we know once the rubber banding and ping issues of the old game are gone we might find the TTK in PS1 was perfect for PS2 scale warfare. I like the idea of faster TTK, but I'm not against trying different levels of TTK till we find the one right for PS2.

[IceyCold]

Will the next COD/BF have thousand player fights, platoons, outfits, 5km square maps?

No it wont; if the game play mechanics are appealing enough to the "popular" FPS crowd, those key features of Planetside may keep them coming back even when the new games come out.

Great point.

[Bags]

Honestly, as long as I can have my MCG, heal and repair myself, and not die in two bullets I'll be playing PS2.

[IceyCold]

Honestly, as long as I can have my MCG, heal and repair myself, and not die in two bullets I'll be playing PS2.

I'll see your MCG and raise you a Jackhammer.

[Forsaken One]

Will the next COD/BF have thousand player fights, platoons, outfits, 5km square maps?

No it wont; if the game play mechanics are appealing enough to the "popular" FPS crowd, those key features of Planetside may keep them coming back even when the new games come out.

Won't matter all that much. they are in gaming whats called "bouncers" they bounce to a new game just because its their style of game and its the "newest thing". (say like a CoD kiddie bouncing to the next Cod everytime one comes out.)

[Bags]

I'm sure there will be bouncers but I don't think as bad as COD 4 -> COD 5.

Paying monthly = investment = subconciously not want to leave.

[Forsaken One]

I'm sure there will be bouncers but I don't think as bad as COD 4 -> COD 5.

Paying monthly = investment = subconciously not want to leave.

you forget they said there would be some free part or something of that nature.

Also. for FPS players its more of a turn off to pay monthly. FPS mentality =/= RPG mentality

Also I must say. even for most bouncers. CoD:WaW was the biggest load of shit ever made in CoD gaming. the flamethrower was cool. but the game was basically 1 smg, 1 assault rifle and 2 sniper guns. the 2 sniper guns were reskined 50 times and half of which would one shot you with a certain perk. I think half the bouncers most likely just reinstalled MW1 hahahah.

[Bags]

People pay for xbox live. I'm pretty sure "FPS players won't pay monthly" is an 8 year old excuse.

[IceyCold]

People pay for xbox live. I'm pretty sure "FPS players won't pay monthly" is an 8 year old excuse.

Actually I agree with this thought here. People will pay for an actual MMOFPS. I do think though that they could make it more enticing by having a lower monthly fee, like 10$ for example. You'd be amazed how many people would pay that simply because its cheaper than other MMOs.

Also I really hope they do something along the lines of the Reserves. I don't think it should require CC info so that more people will try it; but they need to REALLY be on top of anti hacking security. This is a must.

[Forsaken One]

People pay for xbox live. I'm pretty sure "FPS players won't pay monthly" is an 8 year old excuse.

um, Xbox? the 8 year olds have their parents pay for that. Ok let me rephrase what I meant. Adults who PC game and play FPS's, not 8 year olds who use M$'s crapbox to play shit like Halo.


Also I really hope they do something along the lines of the Reserves.

The reserves is how I found Planetside existed and gave the game a extra pop that made the game all the more enjoyable. Lets face it. Planetside should have never ended it. all that happened was Planetside kept the hackers and lost a lot of legit pop that made the game funner.

[Warruz]

No, they defined it as active accounts. It's doubtful they actually have 11 million individuals playing (multi boxing) but their number was defined by active accounts.

It was 12 million last they announced it but they've hinted that it dropped down to pre-cata levels.

11.5

then they said they lost enough to go back to pre-cata levels

However the thing to note is not all accounts are the same, NA and Europe have traditional accounts(pay for a month and its active for a month) however other places may have it on a daily or hourly basis such as in china and Taiwan .

[MgFalcon]

I'll see your MCG and raise you a Jackhammer.

I'm just going to shoot my disco balls at y'all and call it a day.
#Lasher

[IceyCold]

I'm just going to shoot my disco balls at y'all and call it a day.
#Lasher

TECHNOPHILE!

[Hamma]

Very well said in your OP IceyCold.

SOE wants this, they want us to be vocal and give feedback. They want to give us a game we want to play and voiced this numerous times during Fan Faire. Everyone from Higby on up to Smed said the same thing over and over again.

I think it's also important for everyone to lay back a bit on the forums and be less negative towards other posters. Provide constructive feedback if you don't like something don't post a bunch of swears and large fonts, or I will turn off large fonts. :lol: