View Full Version : Boarding and Exiting animations in Planetside 2
IceyCold
2011-07-10, 09:41 PM
After finding out that the animations for getting into and out of vehicles has been canned for Planetside 2 I figured why not start a poll up to see what people think about it.
Although not a game breaker for me personally I would like to hear other opinions and hopefully let the devs see how the current player base feels about one of what I always thought was an interesting feature of the original game.
Not a deal breaker but a nice touch that sets planetside above some other games.
moosepoop
2011-07-10, 09:45 PM
i found it really added to the atmosphere of the game, defeinitely yes.
maybe the animations can be faster this time since the game is faster paced, but i stil lwould like them to be there.
2coolforu
2011-07-10, 09:47 PM
I only want them in if SOE can afford to put them in, and if the time and resources exist to put anims in without cutting back gameplay.
Forsaken One
2011-07-10, 09:47 PM
I enjoy them. and hope they stay or at least will be added later.
BUT it will be gamebreakingly stupid if you port in and out of vehicles like in battlefield games. vehicles will become disposable and people will just port out right before they die /run and magically port into a vehicle while he's being shot at and almost dead.
IceyCold
2011-07-10, 09:47 PM
Not a deal breaker but a nice touch that sets planetside above some other games.
By no means a deal breaker for me either, I just would be sad to see them go.
My biggest concern related to the topic is seat hopping inside a vehicle to be honest. that I really would prefer NOT have.
Coyote
2011-07-10, 09:48 PM
I will need more information before i make my Nay or Yay judgement, but coming from other games that don't have getting in/out animations, I can say it is truly annoying to be driving at full speed and just get off like a boss. If this is possible in PS2 problems will mount.
I believe they will keep the eject while moving and the disembark while standing still mechanic. I do fear that people repairing their tanks could now just hop-in at the first sign of trouble and start blasting. As long as they make it so you at least have to go to the cockpit/hatch to get in, I will be okay with it. I hate being able to enter a vehicle from underneath it's wing/tread or through the trunk of a buggy.
Vancha
2011-07-10, 09:55 PM
I'd be sad to see this go, and really don't want to see instant mounting/dismounting.
I'd argue that the boarding animations were one of the major steps forward in vehicle gameplay in FPS', as well as being very atmospheric (as has been mentioned already), seeing everyone load up into the vehicle before it set off gave some added anticipation of what was to come.
Hamma
2011-07-10, 11:31 PM
I think it should be in the game, it was a really cool aspect of PlanetSide that wasn't in other games.
If its a budget/technical issue, at the very least I hope they will account for the time it takes to get in/out of the vehicle. If they could at least not allow you to operate the vehicle while getting in, and show a progress indicator or something. I mean you'll be staring at the cockpit or whatever but it will say "entering vehicle" or something of that nature, just for a moment. Same thing with hopping out, at least give a small delay before you port out. This way it would at least be functionally identical to what we have now.
CutterJohn
2011-07-10, 11:59 PM
It was a nice touch imo. I'm not pissed its not there, but it would be nice to have, and is something few games have done.
I can understand why its low on the priority list though.
Vancha
2011-07-11, 12:17 AM
Like others have said. The animation isn't quite as important as the delay in getting in and out. Morf's idea seems like a pretty good solution if the problem is art resources.
THrONeBeaST
2011-07-11, 12:33 AM
I always liked them also and would like to see them stay in-game
Death2All
2011-07-11, 12:37 AM
It should be in the game for two reasons
1. It looked cool
2.It keeps players from instantly getting a vehicle and driving off. Imagine shooting at a guy whose repping his Lightning and he instantly hops in, turns and kills you.
I'm not sure whether or not you can instantly start driving your vehicle the second you enter it, but it's still lame none the less.
INIDominus
2011-07-11, 01:02 AM
Really should be kept, not because of its aethetic, but for its influence on gamplay. As has been stated: instant vehicle control would have a negative effect.
Zulthus
2011-07-11, 01:17 AM
I would really like to see animations stay, as well as toggleable headlights/engine/extensive cockpit view. Just saying.
BorisBlade
2011-07-11, 01:20 AM
Yeah at very least somethin like morf said, needs a delay, its a big game changer when its instant in/out. Trust me, ive done (and still do) some horribly lame and cheap things in BF because they are too stupid to put in animations. Really kills gameplay and immersion doin it but it works, so people will do it.
Sifer2
2011-07-11, 01:38 AM
Yeah when going to Battlefield this was one of the biggest things I missed. It seems like a small thing of no significance. But I really liked it. Few games bother to do it but its awesome.
An yeah it does cut down on some stupid cheese you can do when you have instant teleport inside vehicle powers. Planetside is fondly remembered I think because of a lot of unique an awesome things it did. An for me this is one of them.
Grimster
2011-07-11, 02:33 AM
Same here won't break the game for me but would be nice to have them around as this made it feel like Planetside. :)
Raymac
2011-07-11, 02:36 AM
Of course we all want it, but if they have a limited animation budget, where would you start your cuts? You can still have a delay for jumping in your vehicle in other ways.
IceyCold
2011-07-11, 02:50 AM
Of course we all want it, but if they have a limited animation budget, where would you start your cuts? You can still have a delay for jumping in your vehicle in other ways.
Of course there can be budget issues, and once again I doubt for anyone here it is truly a deal breaker.
This poll is simply to show the Devs that this is something the players enjoyed and if there is any way it could be implemented within reason that it is something they should shoot for to further better the game.
Of course there can be budget issues, and once again I doubt for anyone here it is truly a deal breaker.
This poll is simply to show the Devs that this is something the players enjoyed and if there is any way it could be implemented within reason that it is something they should shoot for to further better the game.
True, but the survey question and answers are biased.
It's like asking 'would you like to pay more taxes' and simple yes/no as an answer.
IceyCold
2011-07-11, 04:12 AM
True, but the survey question and answers are biased.
It's like asking 'would you like to pay more taxes' and simple yes/no as an answer.
I don't see how they are biased at all.
This is a poll simply asking people's opinions mate.
First off we have no idea what is or is not in the budget or any of the internal workings of the company, therefore having an option like "Yes if it is plausible" is redundant to say the least. It really is in fact a YES or NO question. Do you like the idea of animations? Yes or No? You can easily post (as many others have in this thread) WHY you chose that option. There is no need to try to have an option for every possible answer or thought.
Secondly, I have put up very BROAD answers. I didn't put up options like: "Yes because the game will suck without them" and "No because I want a rush product now!" Things like that are biased answers.
I simply posted this poll for the Devs to see how the current player base from Planetside 1 felt in regard to this feature, thus giving them more info on something they might have honestly thought wasn't a big deal or might have been a nuisance to players. I whole heartedly hope the Devs would read this thread and take that info along with the Poll and their own internal afairs to judge whether or not it is a worthy feature to include.
I don't see how they are biased at all.
This is a poll simply asking people's opinions mate.
First off we have no idea what is or is not in the budget or any of the internal workings of the company, therefore having an option like "Yes if it is plausible" is redundant to say the least. It really is in fact a YES or NO question. Do you like the idea of animations? Yes or No? You can easily post (as many others have in this thread) WHY you chose that option. There is no need to try to have an option for every possible answer or thought.
Secondly, I have put up very BROAD answers. I didn't put up options like: "Yes because the game will suck without them" and "No because I want a rush product now!" Things like that are biased answers.
I simply posted this poll for the Devs to see how the current player base from Planetside 1 felt in regard to this feature, thus giving them more info on something they might have honestly thought wasn't a big deal or might have been a nuisance to players. I whole heartedly hope the Devs would read this thread and take that info along with the Poll and their own internal afairs to judge whether or not it is a worthy feature to include.
IIRC Hiby already said they don't have the budget for them.
Now onto the survey:
'Do you want boarding/exit animations?' and giving a simple yes/no answers can be considered as unethical by any researcher / analyst. It's a gaming forum I know and I'm being anal about it, but still. :evil:
You could survey your workplace with a similar survey and ask - 'Would you like to earn more?' 'Yes/no' and then go to your boss and tell him you want to get paid more ;-)
There is a huge grey area between 'I want animations' and 'no, I don't want them'. Which you can even see in the answers.
If you wanted a truly reliable survey, the question could be 'How crucial vehicle boarding/exiting animations is to you' with qualitative 1-5 answers, with 5 'it's a crucial feature and will affect my purchasing decision' etc...
Kran De Loy
2011-07-11, 05:05 AM
Oh yes, definitely. A big part of the animations, imo, was that they keep the immersion in the game from breaking.. as much. Seeing people just appear and disappear near vehicles has always been slightly jarring to me.
Tho in the end it's all fluff really.
That said, I would love dearly to see something a step up from those.
Example would be a MAX activates Galaxy transport pod, the pod opens than the MAX hops in. As the Pod Doors finish closing the MAX suit into their claustrophobia inducing little pocket of metal plating, a screen flickers to life on his HUD that is linked to a camera located on the outside of the ship. All the while the animation never break first person.
Mechanic wise the boarding animation switches the player control from the MAX to a simple video feed located somewhere on the outside of the vehicle and back again when the MAX exits.
Pro: Really, really awesome immersion.
Cons: It would take a a large toll on developer and client resources likely better spent else where. Also having the option to use Third Person camera when in a vehicle would be very belittling to the time and efforts the devs put into making such a immersive effect.
Kran De Loy
2011-07-11, 05:07 AM
If you wanted a truly reliable survey, the question could be 'How crucial vehicle boarding/exiting animations is to you' with qualitative 1-5 answers, with 5 'it's a crucial feature and will affect my purchasing decision' etc...
Actually this is pretty spot on. I would go with 1.5, personally.
IceyCold
2011-07-11, 05:45 AM
IIRC Hiby already said they don't have the budget for them.
Now onto the survey:
'Do you want boarding/exit animations?' and giving a simple yes/no answers can be considered as unethical by any researcher / analyst. It's a gaming forum I know and I'm being anal about it, but still. :evil:
You could survey your workplace with a similar survey and ask - 'Would you like to earn more?' 'Yes/no' and then go to your boss and tell him you want to get paid more ;-)
There is a huge grey area between 'I want animations' and 'no, I don't want them'. Which you can even see in the answers.
If you wanted a truly reliable survey, the question could be 'How crucial vehicle boarding/exiting animations is to you' with qualitative 1-5 answers, with 5 'it's a crucial feature and will affect my purchasing decision' etc...
I was not part of said discussion therefore I did not know about the budget issues. Since no one had yet given any source for the budget issue in any thread I had seen it brought up in I gave it no ground.
As to the point of your post, I started the poll simply to see people's thoughts on the animations, I expected people to be able to use the reply button on the thread to post their reasons for why they chose their answer. This was not a poll designed to prove that Planetside 2 would succeed/fail without them, instead one to ask the very simple question "Did you like the feature?" Honestly I felt it was better to allow people to hit yes or no and then explain it in their own words, and did not think that a thread meant as a simple discussion for the Devs to look over needed to have options like "No I won't buy this game without them." when there is a perfectly good area to give a specific reason for the answer you gave.
I'm sorry if I somehow made you think I was trying to make a biased poll, that
was far from my intention. Could the poll be much more in depth with a broad analysis of this forum's spending habits in correlation with this said feature? Yes. Did I feel that was needed more than a simple poll asking whether or not people LIKED that feature in Planetside? No.
hippieschuh
2011-07-11, 05:47 AM
Of course I wan them!
But Id rather play the game 2 Months early then to wait for the animations beeing done^^
Gandhi
2011-07-11, 06:54 AM
I can see why this would be one of the first things to go on a tight budget, character animations are always a lot of work especially when they have to be done for dozens of vehicles. Will be interesting to see how this pans out if you can get into and out of vehicles instantly, I guess with the lack of vehicle hacking and faster pacing it's not so much of a problem anymore.
Lithious
2011-07-11, 11:01 AM
Of course they should implement proper boarding and exiting animations to PS2! I remember it from PS and it was a really neat feature. Even if the whole game gets delayed a few months its totally worth it!
I can see why this would be one of the first things to go on a tight budget, character animations are always a lot of work especially when they have to be done for dozens of vehicles. Will be interesting to see how this pans out if you can get into and out of vehicles instantly, I guess with the lack of vehicle hacking and faster pacing it's not so much of a problem anymore.
It's not only animations, it's vehicle interior next to door/hatch as well.
Please leave this in. Between the reason for the hacking of other vehicles would cause them to go above budget among others it sound like SOE is cutting way too many corners. Don't make the boat sink on launch due to a crappy budget and a early release when its still in Beta. SOE already saw what happened to Vanguard Saga of Heroes.
Vehicle animations are hardly a critical feature of PS I'd say ...
moosepoop
2011-07-11, 11:43 AM
animations really add to the immersion factor, and the critical goal of any MMO is immersion.
Vehicle animations are hardly a critical feature of PS I'd say ...
Always good to have unique features to your game to make it not look like the same old thing. Plus I love getting the jump on crews repping their vehicles and killing them while I am in my Van. Instant hop ins will totally ruin that and any sense for finding a proper rep spot.
dachlatte
2011-07-11, 12:06 PM
...Even if the whole game gets delayed a few months its totally worth it!
:D
but seriously....boarding and exiting animations? there are much more important things to worry about :rolleyes:
I'm not saying I don't like vehicle animations - I think they're great. But let's be real here. Matt already said they are too expansive to implement and it does make sense.
Adding interiors and animations to all of the vehicles in game would probably push the release date by at least a month. Also, lets not forget Galaxy itself requires no less than a dozen of animations and interior pieces. We also don't know how much the mods will modify the appearance and possible doors/hatches.
So yeah - sure they're cool but I won't kill myself over no having them. There's plenty of cooler things they can do with development time instead of doing this.
LZachariah
2011-07-11, 12:25 PM
Little nuances like boarding-vehicle-animation add a VERY important element of realism and tangibility to the universe. The more these absences occur, the more this feels like a low-grade GAME rather than a living WORLD. For instance, to parallel, when we switch weapons in Planetside 2, do they just appear in our hands? Probably not- our avatar holsters one and draws another. When we teleport/fast-travel to a location, do we just appear in that new place? No- we are hot dropped via a pod and crash land to the DZ. These details are VERY important and deeply enriching. Even if people do not declaratively notice that they are happening, the will subconsciously feel MUCH more immersed in the world. Inversely, if these nuances are omitted, even the people who don't declaratively notice their absence will feel less captivated and engaged in the world; it will feel more hollow and insubstantial.
It is very important to keep elements like this. We need vehicle-boarding animations.
~Zachariah
DviddLeff
2011-07-11, 12:55 PM
I loved them in PS1, but I don't want them in PS2.
Why?
I want you to retain a first person perspective as much as possible to make the sense of immersion that much greater. So rather than it cutting to third person you see your guy open the hatch and slide into the seat, then start up the vehicle.
basti
2011-07-11, 01:14 PM
I loved them in PS1, but I don't want them in PS2.
Why?
I want you to retain a first person perspective as much as possible to make the sense of immersion that much greater. So rather than it cutting to third person you see your guy open the hatch and slide into the seat, then start up the vehicle.
That actually means you do want them in PS2, just not be forced to Third person but rather keep your camera where your eyes would be. Like that, sounds cool. :)
And i also want those animations rather than "hit E and be instantly in the vehicle". its such a cool uniquie aspect of planetside that even adds to the gameplay. If you have ever been a cloaker behind enemy lines, and you happen to see a enemy tank driving by, stopping close to you and those 2 guys jumping out to repair, then you know what im talking about. You sneak up, boomer/knive/beamer one, the other one lacks dark light and jumps into the vehicle to be save. Without the animation, you could miss that easily because he would just dissapear into the vehicle.
Gandhi
2011-07-11, 01:20 PM
And i also want those animations rather than "hit E and be instantly in the vehicle". its such a cool uniquie aspect of planetside that even adds to the gameplay. If you have ever been a cloaker behind enemy lines, and you happen to see a enemy tank driving by, stopping close to you and those 2 guys jumping out to repair, then you know what im talking about. You sneak up, boomer/knive/beamer one, the other one lacks dark light and jumps into the vehicle to be save. Without the animation, you could miss that easily because he would just dissapear into the vehicle.
We could fix this by automatically broadcasting a loud "I'M GETTING INTO THE VEHICLE" voice macro :D
Logit
2011-07-11, 02:01 PM
Really should be kept, not because of its aethetic, but for its influence on gamplay. As has been stated: instant vehicle control would have a negative effect.
This.
I understand they are trying to speed up every aspect of the game, but it seems they are doing it at the cost of features from the original people enjoyed.
For example, sanctuaries. Was it really THAT much of a hassle to spawn in sanc and fly/drive to a WG?
Jennyboo
2011-07-11, 02:02 PM
I like it therefor hope they keep it :D
Vancha
2011-07-11, 02:11 PM
That actually means you do want them in PS2, just not be forced to Third person but rather keep your camera where your eyes would be. Like that, sounds cool. :)
Oh hell yes...Getting into a vehicle in first person. This must happen.
Leyxa
2011-07-11, 02:35 PM
Good riddance, I say. Their influence on gameplay was usually to pull me out of the action and make me curse at how long they were taking. Unless the camera transitions were smoother I'd be happy they're gone. An engine ignition noise could fill the gap if you wanted a similar effect, i.e., delayed vehicle start-up. A SFX implemented delay would have the advantage of not feeling so much like the player has lost control of his avatar and increase the idea that the player is acting through his avatar on a tank that is separate to his avatar.
Dreamcast
2011-07-11, 02:47 PM
Keep it in the game...I dont want some guy to instally get inside a vechile.
Also it looks cool.
Also when he is getting in, make him allowed to get hit so he will die before he gets in.
BorisBlade
2011-07-11, 10:49 PM
If you cant afford the animations, put in a delay via sound effects or somethin, its bad enough its gonna feel totally fake just magically gettin in and out, atleast dont kill the gameplay by just lettin us get in and out instantly.
basti
2011-07-12, 05:23 PM
Do we actually know for sure why this isnt in the game? They said you cant hack enemy vehicles because of texture stuff etc, but what about those animations? Animations take a lot less ressources than a full blown 1024x1024 texture with normal maps etc. And as there will be only one, max 2 (male and female) skeletons you build your animation for, its like almost nothing.
Ofc doing those animations and getting them to look good is quite some work for those animators, and they are propably busy with lots of other stuff. Having them coming post release would be fine, as long as they come at all. Just saying "no, never" would hurt. :(
Do we actually know for sure why this isnt in the game? They said you cant hack enemy vehicles because of texture stuff etc, but what about those animations? Animations take a lot less ressources than a full blown 1024x1024 texture with normal maps etc. And as there will be only one, max 2 (male and female) skeletons you build your animation for, its like almost nothing.
Ofc doing those animations and getting them to look good is quite some work for those animators, and they are propably busy with lots of other stuff. Having them coming post release would be fine, as long as they come at all. Just saying "no, never" would hurt. :(
They said costs.
Mind it's not only animations, it's also the bits of interior you can see when entering/exiting vehicles.
As long as vehicle entering isn't instant I don't mind them going away too much.
Lunarchild
2011-07-12, 05:50 PM
Do we actually know for sure why this isnt in the game? They said you cant hack enemy vehicles because of texture stuff etc, but what about those animations? Animations take a lot less ressources than a full blown 1024x1024 texture with normal maps etc. And as there will be only one, max 2 (male and female) skeletons you build your animation for, its like almost nothing.
Ofc doing those animations and getting them to look good is quite some work for those animators, and they are propably busy with lots of other stuff. Having them coming post release would be fine, as long as they come at all. Just saying "no, never" would hurt. :(
Animations would still need to be tweaked depending on the armor you're wearing. All armor that you can use needs to be checked, as needs each vehicle. Heck, in PS1 we have multiple animations per vehicle. (Mag Rider anyone?)
Talek Krell
2011-07-12, 11:38 PM
Absolutely yes.
This is a potential gamebreaker for me (to the point that I started an account largely to make this post) as much because I loved the animations themselves as because of what their absence implies by extension of logic.
The animations, the time delay involved in actually boarding the vehicle, and the distinct entry points for different positions were all integral in creating hands down the most immersive, most interesting vehicular warfare that I've ever seen in a game. Deciding when and where to repair and resupply were engaging exercises in critical thinking, and some of the best memories I have of the game are of being ambushed by boomer dropping, pistol slinging madmen in invisible pajamas. Some of my regular crew have actually commented on the paranoia I've developed as a result of those instances.
If they're taking out the boarding animations, then the pertinent question is "What else?". Because with how much they apparently love battlefield, I'm terrified that they'll copy the instant teleporting, seat hopping, driving through the trunk, one man attack helicopter, outrepair the rocket launchering, lazy hackjob of a vehicle system that every other FPS and it's dog seems to use today. And that breaks the deal.
It doesn't have to be on release, but I want those animations. And even more importantly, everything that goes with them. So until more info is forthcoming, my answer is a very loud "A".
Valdae
2011-07-12, 11:58 PM
If the game comes out without boarding animations, then a month later no-one will care. The most important thing is the time delay between entering the vehicle, and being able to use the vehicle. Something simple like flickering vehicle lights/engine starting/exhaust fumes with a 3 second delay would be enough to keep everything balanced and provide enough visual immersion.
IceyCold
2011-07-13, 02:44 AM
If the game comes out without boarding animations, then a month later no-one will care. The most important thing is the time delay between entering the vehicle, and being able to use the vehicle. Something simple like flickering vehicle lights/engine starting/exhaust fumes with a 3 second delay would be enough to keep everything balanced and provide enough visual immersion.
Well in no way is this a game breaking thing; I will miss them, but I will not be angry that they are gone.
Since the costs are a problem I would much rather see them spend the money elsewhere. but maybe one day if the game is doing well this is a nice little fluff feature they could add back in.
I do think that vehicles need to have a startup time, so that people dont pop in and out of them instantly.
Malorn
2011-07-13, 02:48 AM
From a product development standpoint, this seems like fluff that could be spent elsewhere. I'd rather they work on more voice macro animations or something like that than spend animation resources for all the different units entering and leaving the vehicles.
From a gameplay standpoint I dont like the delay. Push butan, enter/exit vehicle. No delay, not ime spent looking at an animation when I could be shooting or moving away to cover.
From a product development standpoint, this seems like fluff that could be spent elsewhere. I'd rather they work on more voice macro animations or something like that than spend animation resources for all the different units entering and leaving the vehicles.
From a gameplay standpoint I dont like the delay. Push butan, enter/exit vehicle. No delay, not ime spent looking at an animation when I could be shooting or moving away to cover.
I think people's biggest gripe is the gameplay aspect of it; you can't instantly get in and drive a vehicle.
Highwind
2011-07-13, 03:52 AM
I want to know what they gain by avoiding this part of the game. Some things come to mind like avoiding the need to "carry" around the interior polygons that would need to be shown any time it was exposed (sans some modern LoS rendering tech etc) on every vehicle. Arbitrary entry points on vehicles? It sounds silly saying it, "oh you mean I have to get in at the door?" but some of the time it was a little annoying like when finding an open slot on a Gal.
The big concern that comes to mind is "warping" in / out of vehicles to avoid damage intentionally or not.
I think that creative use of either Hud animations or player-only mini-cutscenes I guess you'd call them could take the place of real loading animations that would effect the performance of those around them. That and the load / exit times for Vehicles in motions/stopped/in-flight etc will have to turned tightly for balance given that animations won't be there as a firm baseline.
I think people's biggest gripe is the gameplay aspect of it; you can't instantly get in and drive a vehicle.
This, exactly this, having to spend time to get in/out balances the (hopefully) usefulness of them, if you have to spend 5 seconds to hop out you won't exactly have time to hop out, repair from near destruction, hop in and run away (see: BC2), you'll have to either A) Plan ahead and not rush in or B) Go down fighting as you rushed in like an idiot.
Highwind: As long as the doors are obvious that really shouldn't matter, maybe I'm just used to using doors from PS1/PR/ArmA2...
Also, not being able to see other people enter or exit is just as bad, if you can't tell what they're doing how do you react? If you wait 5 seconds to find out he might get the jump on you.
Logit
2011-07-13, 11:58 AM
From a product development standpoint, this seems like fluff that could be spent elsewhere. I'd rather they work on more voice macro animations or something like that than spend animation resources for all the different units entering and leaving the vehicles.
From a gameplay standpoint I dont like the delay. Push butan, enter/exit vehicle. No delay, not ime spent looking at an animation when I could be shooting or moving away to cover.
The animations definitely aren't fluff. That few seconds getting in and out of the vehicles allows for those outside of the vehicle to react in said situation.
If somebody can hop in a tank and start shooting instantly, the infantry around have no time to run for cover, toss a jammer, or what have you..
I mean, shit, it does take time to get in and out of a vehicle, why should it be instant? It's just like pulling a gun off your back...
Dragoneye
2011-07-13, 12:18 PM
Yeah. It's not a deal-breaker, but I think that's really unfortunate.
I'm an animator by trade, and I know that those entrance/exit animations aren't that bad to do. I am sure that "on paper" it looks like a bad way to spend resources. (It'd probably take two animators a couple weeks to get decent animations for all vehicles. Considering the average salary, the estimated cost is somewhere around 8,000-12,000$, not counting implementation costs).
But I also think that the vehicle animations in Planetside were something done "accidentally right", because it provides a much better sense of immersion in the world.
In fact, BF3 is -adding- animations for entering and exiting vehicles, now. :p
EDIT: Actually, this is the kind of thing it would be good to poke them about. It's the kind of polish that won't get added unless they think there is a good value for it. This is the kind of thing the community could conceivably get implemented by asking for it en-masse.
Desoxy
2011-07-13, 01:55 PM
In fact, BF3 is -adding- animations for entering and exiting vehicles, now. :p
Dice have already stated that the animations of entering/switching positions/exiting vehicles are for SP only and will not make it into the multiplayer part of the game.. because you are essentially sitting ducks while your character climbs around.
So perhaps SOE is following their guideline here..
Logit
2011-07-13, 02:23 PM
Dice have already stated that the animations of entering/switching positions/exiting vehicles are for SP only and will not make it into the multiplayer part of the game.. because you are essentially sitting ducks while your character climbs around.
So perhaps SOE is following their guideline here..
Why shouldn't you be a sitting duck?
EDIT: Judging from the poll, it seems the overwhelming majority of people would like to see this part of the game stay in.
Desoxy
2011-07-13, 02:31 PM
Why shouldn't you be a sitting duck?
EDIT: Judging from the poll, it seems the overwhelming majority of people would like to see this part of the game stay in.
Yea, I also voted for it to stay in (immersion..), but wanted to point out, that the gameplay has to lend itself to it; which in case of planetside it should do..
(there is nothing more frustrating than when you hunt down a tank and everyone jumps the ship one second before you can blow them up :rolleyes:)
Yeah, if they can hop in instantly not much time to throw a jammer or run for the hills.
Weren't characters invincible in PS1 when the animation was playing anyway?
Weren't characters invincible in PS1 when the animation was playing anyway?
Yup. But there was still a delay between getting in and using vehicle.
Logit
2011-07-13, 02:37 PM
Weren't characters invincible in PS1 when the animation was playing anyway?
Yes, but if you get into a vehicle instantly you're vulnerability as the occupant greatly decreases. Which in a "real" combat situation this isn't the case.
Please note I use the word real as loosely as possible.
The animation gives you time to react, if for nothing else, to find some cover..pull a jammer..etc etc..Which is how it should be. Nobody just hops in and out of cars willie nillie. There is time involved.
headcrab13
2011-07-16, 06:48 AM
Vehicle animations are a signature aspect of PlanetSide, and I am disappointed to hear they won't be included in PS2. Games like Grand Theft Auto, Half-Life 2, and Prototype also have awesome enter/exit animations that really add to the realism.
There was absolutely nothing like watching a huge squad mount up in a Sunderer or Galaxy, or landing your Reaver on a mountain and climbing out to make some quick repairs before your next run. The animations really gave you a sense of ownership, like "this is MY vehicle."
I understand that if you have 15-20 vehicle types, and multiple doors/hatches on each one, that could add up to 100+ animations, but I would gladly wait a few extra months for the game to be polished rather than play a version that felt it was lacking the quality of it's predecessor.
-HC13
Vancha
2011-07-16, 07:02 AM
Hopefully they'll just include a boarding "delay" and add the animations later, rather than anything instantaneous.
FastAndFree
2011-07-16, 07:17 AM
Yup. But there was still a delay between getting in and using vehicle.
Plus you had to wait until you put your weapon/gluegun away for the animation to start, during which your attacker had the chance to kill you
Coreldan
2011-07-16, 11:00 AM
I'd be sad to see them go. I always thought they were ahead of their time with those.
Also for the gameplay balance reasons mentioned.
wildcat140679
2011-07-16, 06:04 PM
Actually not having any enter/exit animations will have a big impact on game play and for me is a game breaker.
With instant enter/exit a vehicle we will be seeing the kind of game play like in battlefield
and alike and that`s the kind of lame vehicle combat I really hate.
Unless there are restrictions, like unable to instantly bail out when a vehicle has taken more then "x"% of damage or when at full stop. Else, Anti-Vehicle/Air people will have a through time getting kills, for people will bail out on time when things go bad.
CrystalViolet
2011-07-16, 06:36 PM
Haven't read this whole thread, but for me, the ideal solution would be this. Interiors of all the vehicles should be detailed to the point where you could enter a hatch without leaving first person view, walk to a station, and press a key to sit down. Solves the porting issue, and keeps you immersed in the first person perspective. There's really no reason why they couldn't do this.
Would also add some interesting gameplay possibilities. Imagine a Galaxy pilot leaves a hatch open too long, and a cloaker sneaks aboard and hides in a corner until the ship is in rout to the front. Right as the pilot is about to open his rear door and drop his compliment of troops, the cloaker shoots him in the head and bales out the nearest hatch leaving the gal to crash and burn ala that scene with the dropship in Aliens.
Desoxy
2011-07-16, 06:55 PM
Haven't read this whole thread, but for me, the ideal solution would be this. Interiors of all the vehicles should be detailed to the point where you could enter a hatch without leaving first person view, walk to a station, and press a key to sit down. Solves the porting issue, and keeps you immersed in the first person perspective. There's really no reason why they couldn't do this.
There is: Money..
(and I would guess even performance up to a point)
CrystalViolet
2011-07-16, 07:04 PM
There is: Money..
(and I would guess even performance up to a point)
I can see the money issue, but we're not talking about a budget shovelware title here. Detailing the insides of the ships might be a bit more costly, but I really feel like it would be worth the extra bit of time and effort to make the game seamless.
I don't think the performance thing would be that big of a deal depending on how creative the programmers got with implementing the system. After all, what's the difference between a stationary vehicle and a building?
I'd definitely like them to return. Without them, things could get confusing. Imagine an enemy taking cover behind a tank, and then all of a sudden they're inside. Plus, it really made the game feel polished and added to the scale. It was amazing to see tons of vehicles rolling into the courtyard of a base, and then players dismounting to invade. Or a ton of gals lined up and being loaded.
Even if they animations are returned post launch. That would be great. As everyone has said before; it was an awesome part to the immersion.
Fantastic seeing people load up on their vehicles in sanctuary prepairing for a big assult!
exLupo
2011-07-17, 07:48 AM
Hopefully they'll just include a boarding "delay" and add the animations later, rather than anything instantaneous.
With the removal of boarding animations this would make the most sense to avoid turning vehicles into freebie insta-turrets. Maybe smaller vehicles have quicker activation times whereas full on battletanks get a sequential bootup sequence. Higher tank skills equal faster boots and the like.
BorisBlade
2011-07-17, 08:30 AM
And those not liking the third person switch. I think it would be very cool to keep you in first person during the "climb in". Either way, im hopin for atleast a delay of some sorts if the animations arent goin in.
SealedSun
2011-07-17, 09:09 AM
I'd really like to see vehicle boarding animations in Planetside 2. Believe it or not, but these animations in Planetside 1 were, what got me interested in the game in the first place.
After seeing that soldier hopping into the Reaver, I just had to check it out!
Skorne
2011-07-17, 09:23 AM
Really want to see them back. I know people have said they don't matter, but of course they do just like all animations do such as reloading your weapon or jumping.
They had the budget to do it in PS1 and they can't do it now with the far more sophisticated animation tools available in 2011? It feels like they are cutting corners to me and I start to worry what other features will be removed to reduce development costs.
I feel like boarding animations aren't just an immersion issue, but a balancing issue as well. Especially if just being in a vehicle makes you immune to damage, ala Planetside 1. Boarding animations + shooting soldiers in vehicles would stop the insta-turret as well as using vehicles to escape immanent death.
Drentz
2011-07-18, 07:17 PM
Stay stay stay. I always thought it was pretty badass watching my outfit's squads surround a couple galaxies and other vehicles and have everyone load up together.
opticalshadow
2011-07-18, 07:20 PM
you will never ever ever ever convince me that something so simple is not possible to be placed in ag ame due to budget or time constraints when A) you have no release date, B) the time it takes to do this is a joke compared to the fact your making a whole game either way.
you will never ever ever ever convince me that something so simple is not possible to be placed in ag ame due to budget or time constraints when A) you have no release date, B) the time it takes to do this is a joke compared to the fact your making a whole game either way.
Adding probably close to a 100 animations along with interior textures is a joke?
Maybe you should write to Smedley and volunteer to do this. I'm sure the community will love you and it's only a few hours of work for you, anyway!
Traak
2011-07-18, 09:19 PM
I dunno about the other vehicles, but the moment I clicked my button to get in the AMS driver's seat, all damage to me from any PShield RExo HA enemy who had leapt at me, shooting me in the back as I repaired the AMS ceased.
So, the animations didn't make me more vulnerable, by any means. Sure did frustrate Captain Braveheart that he couldn't rape yet another engineer with his back turned while he repaired something, I am guessing, and had to helplessly watch his quad-shot alternating dual Jackhammers just hit the AMS instead, even though he was aiming at my vehicle entrance animation.
IceyCold
2011-07-18, 10:15 PM
Adding probably close to a 100 animations along with interior textures is a joke?
Maybe you should write to Smedley and volunteer to do this. I'm sure the community will love you and it's only a few hours of work for you, anyway!
Seriously, thank you for pointing this out.
Although there probably aren't 100 animations (more likely 25-35) this is still a LOT of work for a team of animators. And that is not even getting into having modelers rig the hatches to animate as well as creating internal sections for the vehicles.
That is a lot of time and money for the feature. Although I would love to see it return, I know that it is no small feat to add said feature in.
CrystalViolet
2011-07-18, 10:37 PM
The hatch stuff would be a breeze to animate as your dealing with solid objects moving on a single axis. A professional animator could probably do every vehicle in the game in a matter of hours. The character stuff is a bit more involved, but if you used a similarly sized seat in every vehicle, you could probably get away with a single "sit down" animation for each armor type. Just make it so that you have to be standing in front of the seat to activate the motion.
1Shotwonder
2011-07-18, 10:48 PM
makes a more realistic feel to it like what we going to do pop into a veh. then oh guess what we magically pop out that just sounds like its being half assed
Seriously, thank you for pointing this out.
Although there probably aren't 100 animations (more likely 25-35) this is still a LOT of work for a team of animators. And that is not even getting into having modelers rig the hatches to animate as well as creating internal sections for the vehicles.
That is a lot of time and money for the feature. Although I would love to see it return, I know that it is no small feat to add said feature in.
I've made a quick calculation in my head before I've posted.
Galaxy alone is 13-14 animations? Minus a few as they are mirrored. Then there is Liberator with 3. Two seated Reaver with 2 etc.
Sunderer and deliverer also quite a few animations per vehicle.
Empire specific tanks and buggies - 14 animations.
Plus the generic vehicles, turrets and whatnot.
I'm quite sure the total number is quite close to a 100...
I'm guessing they're using motion capture, which would make it a bit of a trick to do right, I guess.
I think the easiest and actually quite 'canon' solution would be to ... have a small router pad like item to transfer people inside, which would take, say 2-3 second to power up. Same with exiting.
Thoughts?
opticalshadow
2011-07-18, 11:37 PM
Seriously, thank you for pointing this out.
Although there probably aren't 100 animations (more likely 25-35) this is still a LOT of work for a team of animators. And that is not even getting into having modelers rig the hatches to animate as well as creating internal sections for the vehicles.
That is a lot of time and money for the feature. Although I would love to see it return, I know that it is no small feat to add said feature in.
i said compare it to the scope of makign an entire game from scratch, its not a big deal, not at all compared to everything else they have had to do.
its a big deal to retro fit them in after the game is made, but we are in the "not set in stone" part, where these types of things should be made, because their exscuse for time or money doesnt fit in when they have no time limit and the work required to do them isnt going to dent soe's budget. ESPECIALLY because the previous game had them, its clear they can do them.
I think it's quite amazing how united we are on this issue (at least according to the poll.) I really hope that our opinions are going to be acknowledged, regardless of what the actually do.
Hamma
2011-07-19, 09:51 AM
It does seem people are pretty united on this, a first I think.. ;)
... with a pool question worded in a 'would you like to earn more money? yes/no' way ...
:p
Logit
2011-07-19, 10:26 AM
It does seem people are pretty united on this, a first I think.. ;)
This.
I'm tired of SOE saying "We're trying to save money" and than saying "We want the game to be perfect."
I would assume "perfect" includes things that 87% of the customers want, no? Basically your openly admitting your leaving out things that would add to this perfection.
These animations are a small example, but an example none the less.
headcrab13
2011-07-19, 10:58 AM
I think it's quite amazing how united we are on this issue (at least according to the poll.) I really hope that our opinions are going to be acknowledged, regardless of what they actually do.
Exactly. If 90% of the community is so enthusiastic about carrying over one of the coolest features from PlanetSide, it would be great to get some sort of response from the devs along the lines of "we'll consider the community's opinion" or even "NO MEANS NO," haha.
I know most people are going to be pretty impatient for a huge release like this, but I've played plenty of games that could have been great with few more months of work, yet were released prematurely to mediocre scores and subsequently faded into obscurity. I would love to see them push back the planned release for another 6-12 months and end up with an absolutely perfect game. It would be well worth the wait, both for long-time fans and for SOE's pocketbook/reputation.
-HC13
headcrab13
2011-07-19, 11:19 AM
I'm tired of SOE saying "We're trying to save money" and than saying "We want the game to be perfect."
The dev team's numerous comments about cutting features due to financial constraints points to SOE's lack of faith in PS2. I for one think it has the potential to be a genre-reviving, groundbreaking masterpiece that eventually overtakes Call of Duty and Battlefield. I wish SOE would front a little extra money to make this game everything it could be. What they may pay out in the short term would be multiplied many times over with a massive fan base that stays active and even grows for years to come.
-HC13
I would assume "perfect" includes things that 87% of the customers want, no? Basically your openly admitting your leaving out things that would add to this perfection.
99.9% people want to earn more money. If that's what people want they should be paid more!
It's been raining here for a few days, I'm sure the majority of people want it to stop. Why does God (whichever floats your boat) not care about his customers!!!
basti
2011-07-19, 11:35 AM
The dev team's numerous comments about cutting features due to financial constraints points to SOE's lack of faith in PS2. I for one think it has the potential to be a genre-reviving, groundbreaking masterpiece that eventually overtakes Call of Duty and Battlefield. I wish SOE would front a little extra money to make this game everything it could be. What they may pay out in the short term would be multiplied many times over with a massive fan base that stays active and even grows for years to come.
-HC13
Lack of faith?
They need PS2, they need it badly. The entire hack assault put alot of financial stress onto them, they put out the 45 free days to ease off current and past subscribers. but to have the majority of players regain their faith into SOE, they need to launch another good game. Planetside 2 is that game, heck they killed the Agency and let 205 guys go to focus on EQ Next and Planetside 2. If planetside 2 fails, EQ Next could be at risk, and if they have to call that off, they are seriously seriously screwed.
They need PS2 to be successful, while keeping former planetside players happy. They are pretty much trying to create hybrid of what we loved about Planetside and what all those other FPS games would like to have, in order to get a massive playerbase, and lots of cash.
If we dont get those animations with release, im fine with it. But i want them to be ingame asap after release. And im pretty sure higby and the crew heard us. Maybe we get a reply about that entire topic at some point in the future. After all, its just one week since we got the first infos. :)
Desoxy
2011-07-19, 11:41 AM
I would assume "perfect" includes things that 87% of the customers want, no? Basically your openly admitting your leaving out things that would add to this perfection.
The problem is that we do not represent the whole community. Currently PSU has 11770 accounts, let's say they are all active. In game that aims to attract millions it is still only ~1%. The poll itself was conducted among 134 people which is less than 1% of the 1% of the supposed player base (see where I am going with this?). This is a negligible, heavily biased sample size.
While I personally would like to see a return of such animations myself, I acknowledge that SOE has limited resources and as such has a hell of prioritizing job to do (which is not as easy as one might think from the outside). Boarding animations are far less important than highly optimized netcode for instance, yet most of the time people get worked up only about thinks they see (graphics, animations) and less about the backend to support it all.
Just relax and see how it works out before accusing the dev team of anything.. :cool:
Hamma
2011-07-19, 08:02 PM
I'm confused I don't remember them saying no player animations due to money where did i miss that?
Desoxy
2011-07-19, 08:28 PM
I'm confused I don't remember them saying no player animations due to money where did i miss that?
They just said no player animations. The rest is pure speculation.. if you don't have enough facts, make them up! :doh:
They must have a reason for not including them, though; maybe the game is much more fast-paced than we expect.. :p
Hamma
2011-07-19, 08:51 PM
I guess making things up is the way to roll :lol: Personally I'd assume it is a time constraint rather than a money issue.
Desoxy
2011-07-19, 09:32 PM
Maybe we should simply ask him (http://twitpic.com/5sr3nk).. :cool:
Hamma
2011-07-19, 10:27 PM
haha some new posts eh
DreaM
2011-07-19, 11:23 PM
It seems like they're trying to push Planetside 2 out quite quickly. They've said quite a few times they want to release the game with a solid core and then develop on it more afterwards.
HELLFISH88
2011-07-20, 01:58 AM
I agree that the vehicle animation's added too the atmosphere and should be kept. It's a very unique feature for a FPS.
SilverLord
2011-07-20, 02:36 AM
Immersion is huge in any game you spend hours playing. Not having these animations takes away the whole badass factor in my opinion. Walking up to a huge tank and clicking 'G' and now you can instantly fire.. sigh, way too Battlefield'ish.
Think of how many times you have been killed trying to get out or get inside of a vehicle, that time spent getting in was needed for not only immersion but for game balance.
Just think if some guy is repairing his Vanguard and you start shooting him, its going to give you FAR less time before he gets in and starts shooting your ass again, plus you can hide at ANY part of the vehicle and press 'G' and go in, no more going to specific spots and loading in.. just lame.
I've never been killed trying to get in or out of a vehicle because you can't be shot during the animation.
I love how everyone assumes if there are no animations it will be battlefield style, click anywhere and shoot instantly....
Any proof to back up those theories other than 'if there is no animations, it's not planetside!'?
Hamma
2011-07-20, 08:34 AM
Nobody has any.. :p
Logit
2011-07-20, 12:26 PM
I love how everyone assumes if there are no animations it will be battlefield style, click anywhere and shoot instantly....
Any proof to back up those theories other than 'if there is no animations, it's not planetside!'?
Welp, your assuming the opposite no?
Any proof that it won't be this way?
Talek Krell
2011-07-21, 09:40 PM
Haven't read this whole thread, but for me, the ideal solution would be this. Interiors of all the vehicles should be detailed to the point where you could enter a hatch without leaving first person view, walk to a station, and press a key to sit down. Solves the porting issue, and keeps you immersed in the first person perspective. There's really no reason why they couldn't do this.
Would also add some interesting gameplay possibilities. Imagine a Galaxy pilot leaves a hatch open too long, and a cloaker sneaks aboard and hides in a corner until the ship is in rout to the front. Right as the pilot is about to open his rear door and drop his compliment of troops, the cloaker shoots him in the head and bales out the nearest hatch leaving the gal to crash and burn ala that scene with the dropship in Aliens.
I know there's no way we're getting this in PS2, but I think I want it now. Because I keep seeing that gal tumbling through the sky, passengers bailing out to survive the crash, and it's completely epic.
TerminatorUK
2011-07-22, 04:28 AM
Well I'm a bit late to the party with in this thread but I 100% agree with the immersion factor and that the boarding animations added really atmosphere to the game.
This feature was very unique to Planetside and is one of those 'polish' items that added up to the whole package.
Yes, the sky wouldn't fall without them but it would be a major loss in terms of the finished product.
Like most have said, one of the critical factors here is the delay with entering/exiting the vehicle preventing a BC2 hop in/hop out to repair sort of situation.
However, I have a cunning plan.... :)
Use a Core Combat Switchblade style 'warp in' and 'warp out' animation
If budget is the constraint, why not use a generic core-combat switchblade 'warp in' and 'warp out' effect for all vehicles
By doing this, only a single animation needs to be used to and directed to the outer hull of the vehicle. No hatch animations or additional textures are required.
Sadly I couldn't find an image of the Switchblade animation anywhere to show what I mean but think of the Twins in Matrix Reloaded 'ghosting' into a moving car for an idea of what I mean.
This animation could then be timed depending on the boarding / alighting delay you wanted to have (for reference the alighting animation would be a reverse of the boarding animation, saving additional time).
Some supporting game lore :)
From: Chief Engineer Officer, Samuel Smith, Vanu Sovereignty
To: All vehicle divisions
Subject: Vanu warp technology for vehicle embarkation and dismounting
Date: 98.1481/c
Thought of the day: Technology equals might!
As you know, our beloved Vanu brethren have given us so much hope for the advancement of the human race through vastly superior technology to our own when we arrived on Auraxis.
Over the years we have created crude but effective replications of their hover technology such as the Magrider Main Battle Tank (see pattern 4x18c) and the Thresher Light Assault vehicle (see pattern 2x24b).
However, until recently, we have been using legacy hatches and entry ports on our vehicles which has seriously hampered the overall durability and hull strength of our vehicles over time.
A break-through has been made after examining pure, perfect ancient technology examples from the Vanu such as the Switchblade, Router and Flail (see data entry here (http://www.planetside-universe.com/p-core-combat-vehicles-43.htm)) and seeing how crystal technology allows the occupant to physically 'enter' and 'exit' the vehicle through a solid surface.
By implanting this crystal technology into our existing vehicles, this has allowed us to create incredibly rigid new designs. Examples include being able to forge a complete hull in a mold as one 'piece' without the need for any hatches, ports or other points of weakness.
Once within the proximity of crystal-equipped vehicles, soldiers can interface with the crystal inside using the built-in IFF identification and 'warp inside' the vehicle without the need to open any door or hatch. Exiting the vehicle is done using the reverse of the above process.
The downside is that this procedure takes several seconds to complete the and is not instant.
There have also been sporadic reports of soldiers feeling nauseous after the warping process is complete, however, I have been assured by our medics that this is temporary and will pass after a few minutes.
Prototype vehicles have already been deployed to the battlefield and initial tests have proven successful thus-far.
Unfortunately it is with bitter regret that I have to report the theft of at least one of these vehicles to the wretched Terran Republic and just last week a rumor that another was captured to an unknown source (survivors claim a massive impact came from a yellow/blue vehicle pointing towards New Conglomerate intervention).
It can only be assumed, therefore, that our enemies will now also wield the ability to use crystal-enhanced vehicles as well so we must be vigilant on the battlefield.
For further information regarding crystal-vehicle technology, please refer to codex 8/22457.
Good luck solider - may the power of the Vanu strengthen you always.
Samuel Smith
Chief Engineering Officer
Vanu Sovereignty
CutterJohn
2011-07-30, 02:02 AM
Since the other thread was closed
If they find that their resources are limitied. I honest to God would offer myself in a contract agreement that paid 1 dollar a day to FULLY create and script / program this into their engine... Bug Free... within 2 months... for every vehicle.................................. I shit you not.
So you'd learn their engine, add in the programming to support this feature, do 40-60 custom character animations(double that if they don't reuse male animations for females), redo the vehicle meshes and textures(and add interiors for when the door opens), and the associated animations, all to the quality expected of a AAA game, all in 2 months?
You have a robust skill set. Amazing that you are willing to work for a dollar a day.
I have described in many examples on how it is important to gameplay personally, minus his opinions.
If there is an enemy that is at the brink of death and insta-boards a vehicle? Bad Ju Ju
How many times has this happened to you? Its rare enough to be a non issue in the battlefield games, and they don't have worries about hacking and vehicle ownership.
This sniper I am firing on is getting waylayed on and about to die, and a two seater plane flies by and he presses Jump-E or Jump-Enter into the vehicle to espcape? Damnit, Bad JU JU
Are you serious?
If there are any vehicles that promote healing, I could see that heavily abused.
What does this even mean.
an entire platoon could be picked up on the FLY within 5 seconds with 3 consecutive gals diving in and flying low.
If they can, they deserve to. That would take lots of practice.
Its interesting that because there are no boarding animations you assume:
1. That they will be instant
2. That you can board while the vehicle is in motion
3. And flying
4. That infantry will fly out with guns instantly at the ready.
There are more solutions to those issues you listed than just animations. Hell, if you went and removed ONLY the animations, only one of those issues might even be an issue in planetside, because there were more restrictions on boarding a vehicle other than just animations.
-The vehicle must be stopped or landed.
-You had to go to the load point
-You had to unequip/equip weapons as you entered/exited.
Animations are nice eye candy, and nothing more.
Vancha
2011-07-30, 08:49 AM
Yeah, we need to separate the boarding delay with the boarding animation. Boarding animations are not a gameplay benefit, the boarding delay is the gameplay benefit. Boarding animations are just the glitter.
Tatwi
2011-07-30, 12:56 PM
Not a deal breaker but a nice touch that sets planetside above some other games.
Absolutely!
Being an EQ and Star Wars Galaxies player, I've known about Planetside since it launched, but never tried it until this year. When I did and I saw the animations I was like, "whoah! why don't all games have that when Planetside could do it back in 2003!" It really adds a lot to the feeling of the game and also from a gameplay perspective, the slight delay in doing things makes it more tactical.
Sovereign
2011-07-30, 01:02 PM
Don't think this is a case of both this is a zero sum affair you can't be for boarding animations while supporting instantaneous entry in any vehicle.
As long as these animations can be executed fluently that guarantees flawless use across the board to players then there shouldn't be an issue.. ;)
Cerus
2011-09-01, 01:00 PM
Faster != better, all it does is create an averaging effect on performance. In a faster environment luck plays a bigger role and pushes your chance of success in any given engagement towards a percentage that continues to motivate you, regardless of skill.
In a "slow" FPS, the top players leveraging their ability through the duration of an engagement will see the results of their effort as a successful aggregate. This keeps them interested, but lower tier players quickly become bored of the pacing* and their failures and leave.
In a "fast" FPS, the top players will tend towards success via the same aggregation as above, played out on a different scale. Random luck ("I got a headshot!...What does that mean?") then plays a larger role on the small end, pushing up the kill ratio of lower tier players, keeping them interested.
If a developer is touting their gameplay as becoming "faster", they're not pushing an improvement, they're just being cynical.
That's not to say that fast pacing is always bad, it's just that whenever you decrease the amount of time it takes to do a thing, you're increasing the effect that luck has on the average Joe's chance of success, and one of the primary reasons for doing that is to put a ceiling on how effective a skilled player can be.
So yeah, vehicle enter/exit delay please, animations if it's convenient.
*30 minutes of carefully executed strategy that ends in success is unforgettably awesome, 30 minutes of confused failure in the face of a carefully executed strategy is unforgivably boring.
Logit
2011-09-02, 03:09 PM
A note to higby and andy. Please view this poll.
It's still SOE bro. The birth mother to BFR's.
All the Poll's in the world aren't going to give them more money to implement something we all apparently want.
The consensus seems to me that it's not a deal breaker, but we all think it should definitely be in. To the common person such an overwhelming poll would lead you to believe that they would take a second look at this.
But they won't.
Higby
2011-09-02, 05:16 PM
But they won't.
You never know, man!
This is something we've talked about quite a bit in the office, but it involves a lot more than you guys may realize. It's not just making a couple dozen character animations, it involves modeling and texturing all the vehicle interiors, making all the doors separate, animated pieces of the vehicles, i.e. essentially remaking many of our current vehicles.
We definitely get that this is something that you guys love from ps1 and want in ps2. I'm on a bus with T-Ray and Elam for 5 hours today, so we'll pow wow about it a bit and see what can be done...
EASyEightyEight
2011-09-02, 05:32 PM
That's good, and even if you decide it's not worth the hassle, at least consider a booting/revving up period between entering the vehicle and actually having control over it's functions? You know, guy warps in, then the engine takes a moment to rev up, or the main gun of the tank needs to power up, etc.
The key here is no one wants to be shooting someone next to a tank and in the instant they enter they can lob a shell at you. The entering/exit animation itself is eye candy. The player model is immortal once they begin entering the tank in PS1 as is.
Related question: will the vehicle still required to be at a stand still to board, and will we need to holster our weaponry first? Please say yes :)
Another related question: can we persuade you to include "cockpit PoV" for more open cockpit vehicles, like buggies, and maybe the mossy? I miss my old wing commander days of where I actually felt like I was sitting inside a craft, as opposed to seeing the world through a camera.
Sirisian
2011-09-02, 05:36 PM
Darn was hoping for a nice minimalistic cockpit view for planes and vehicles. Sounds like the windows are tinted?
That's good, and even if you decide it's not worth the hassle, at least consider a booting/revving up period between entering the vehicle and actually having control over it's functions? You know, guy warps in, then the engine takes a moment to rev up, or the main gun of the tank needs to power up, etc.
The key here is no one wants to be shooting someone next to a tank and in the instant they enter they can lob a shell at you. The entering/exit animation itself is eye candy. The player model is immortal once they begin entering the tank in PS1 as is.
Related question: will the vehicle still required to be at a stand still to board, and will we need to holster our weaponry first? Please say yes :)
.
This.
While I agree that animations would be best, there are other ways to go about it:
Maybe have the player getting into the vehicle board it normally, and simply freeze for a couple seconds while in the driver/gunner/passenger seat. During that freeze-time, have the player appear to be deconstructing, or fading out, or something. A visual cue that signals they are entering the vehicle.
That way there won't be any confusion as to where the player went, and it won't be able to be abused like in the past.
I'm still under the assumption that there will be specific spots where one is able to board from, and the player will appear in open-cockpit vehicles. Is there truth to that?
Brusi
2011-09-03, 04:16 AM
NOTE: Boarding animations for ancient tech vehicles were crap.
CutterJohn
2011-09-03, 04:29 AM
You never know, man!
This is something we've talked about quite a bit in the office, but it involves a lot more than you guys may realize. It's not just making a couple dozen character animations, it involves modeling and texturing all the vehicle interiors, making all the doors separate, animated pieces of the vehicles, i.e. essentially remaking many of our current vehicles.
Heh. I gave that explanation almost point for point earlier. But then I'm a nobody who's worked on mods, not a lead dev on a project worth millions. :D
Don't be too persuaded by the argument. Remember that having animations is nifty from an eye candy perspective, but there are downsides. You use up that much more texture memory for the interiors, lose that much more time for making new weapons/vehicles, and you lose easy control of vehicle seating. If seating is arbitrary, you can easily add in an extra seat or two for balance, or certs for the vehicles.
^ "Don't be too persuaded" by something the vast majority of players want! Sounds like what SOE always has done with PS1.
RedKnights
2011-09-03, 04:41 AM
I just kind of wonder why this was left out in the first place, there's no way, I hope, you were planning to be able to jump into and instantly pilot a vehicle, so it begs the question of what the plan was from the beginning.
Adding a time delay is one thing but that would be so aggravatingly boring. At least in Planetside you had a third-person view of your character getting in and out to distract you. Even Halo has vehicle entry animations for balancing purposes.
Personally I'd like to see a short 1st person scene of you hopping into your plane, flipping switches desperately/professionally depending on the situation and the engines revving up, and then you're given control of your galaxy in the standard camera view.
My advice, don't skimp on something like this, give the game polish, buff it to a nice shine like the major studios do.
Planetside 2 is kinda SOE's last chance to remain relevant in the world of MMO gaming. You already regained some of your popular opinion with making DC Universe "Not as terrible as expected". You might as well pull all the stops and make Planetside 2 a game to be reckoned with and market the shit out of it. Give it the detailing it deserves, or you might as well not even bother.
And if the game is really on such a shoe-string budget such that re-texturing vehicles so that they can be hacked, or modeling cockpits and doors will break the bank (Something that a squad of university students could probably cobble together in a day or two) Then I really worry about the game as a whole, and I suggest a kick-starter project. :(
Aractain
2011-09-03, 05:01 AM
I agree that acient tech stuff was terrible to board however I also agree that if people just climb on top of a vehicle and 'transport' inside would be a good tradeoff.
I don't want people to spend time doing extra stuff that could be spent making MOAR GUNZ!
Bruttal
2011-09-03, 05:35 AM
You never know, man!
This is something we've talked about quite a bit in the office, but it involves a lot more than you guys may realize. It's not just making a couple dozen character animations, it involves modeling and texturing all the vehicle interiors, making all the doors separate, animated pieces of the vehicles, i.e. essentially remaking many of our current vehicles.
We definitely get that this is something that you guys love from ps1 and want in ps2. I'm on a bus with T-Ray and Elam for 5 hours today, so we'll pow wow about it a bit and see what can be done...
really am just kinda curious is to why you would need to make vehicle interiors. cant the char just disappear as they climb into it?. doesn't make sense to render an entire "cockpit" for every vehicle. to me if it requires that much work Id rather it come out 3-6 months after release its not that huge of a deal id rather have the game balanced and ready to play then spend another 3-4 months on redoing vehicles just for a boarding animation.
and to all the people am about to be flamed by. I GET IT VEHICLE ANIMATIONS ARE COOL AND MAKE THINGS FELL MORE REALISTIC and I would like to see them to but not at release lets get the game out make sure everyone can login and play with the current style and then we can give some feedback.
Talek Krell
2011-09-03, 07:18 AM
I think the general consensus so far is that we'd like animations, but what we really want is the delay.
basti
2011-09-03, 07:56 AM
You never know, man!
This is something we've talked about quite a bit in the office, but it involves a lot more than you guys may realize. It's not just making a couple dozen character animations, it involves modeling and texturing all the vehicle interiors, making all the doors separate, animated pieces of the vehicles, i.e. essentially remaking many of our current vehicles.
We definitely get that this is something that you guys love from ps1 and want in ps2. I'm on a bus with T-Ray and Elam for 5 hours today, so we'll pow wow about it a bit and see what can be done...
<3
If you guys cant just spam it out, thats fine. As long as we get them before or some time after release, its all ok. :)
Those animations doesnt add anything to the gameplay (enter and exit times dont need animation), but they add a lot to the immersion, and thats quite important. You play a whole lot better and have a lot more fun with a game if you just let youself get sucked into it
bjorntju1
2011-09-03, 08:44 AM
What about something that ArmA 2 did. For example: ArmA 2- Helikopter und Panzer - YouTube
( @ 0:26)
Make it a little slower and a little more polished. This way you don't necessarily have to make the interiors and the moving doors.
Crator
2011-09-03, 09:01 AM
I was playing PS1 yesterday and while entering/exiting vehicles I thought of this thread and how it would be a shame if we never see those animations again in PS2. Not saying have them ready for day 1 of go-live, just sayin' put them in when ya can. As for time delays I have a question. When entering/exiting in PS1 were you vulnerable to being hit? I never could tell for sure if this was the case.
basti
2011-09-03, 09:41 AM
I was playing PS1 yesterday and while entering/exiting vehicles I thought of this thread and how it would be a shame if we never see those animations again in PS2. Not saying have them ready for day 1 of go-live, just sayin' put them in when ya can. As for time delays I have a question. When entering/exiting in PS1 were you vulnerable to being hit? I never could tell for sure if this was the case.
Nope. The moment you pressed E, you were save from damage.
Elude
2011-09-03, 10:28 AM
This is something we've talked about quite a bit in the office, but it involves a lot more than you guys may realize. It's not just making a couple dozen character animations, it involves modeling and texturing all the vehicle interiors, making all the doors separate, animated pieces of the vehicles, i.e. essentially remaking many of our current vehicles.
We definitely get that this is something that you guys love from ps1 and want in ps2. I'm on a bus with T-Ray and Elam for 5 hours today, so we'll pow wow about it a bit and see what can be done...
I would love to see a "rev up" time for when getting in a vehicle but would love to see animations for entering and exiting more. I understand that it would take quite a bit of effort to animate and redo, UV maps, many textures, and partially remodel whatever it is you already have done (which is probably a lot), but I would think it would more than definitely be worth it(I just feel sorry for whoever has to do the Galaxy lol).
If you can't make it by launch than at least include some sort of "rev up" time as others have said and later release entering/exiting animations through an update.
Logit
2011-09-03, 10:34 AM
You never know, man!
This is something we've talked about quite a bit in the office, but it involves a lot more than you guys may realize. It's not just making a couple dozen character animations, it involves modeling and texturing all the vehicle interiors, making all the doors separate, animated pieces of the vehicles, i.e. essentially remaking many of our current vehicles.
We definitely get that this is something that you guys love from ps1 and want in ps2. I'm on a bus with T-Ray and Elam for 5 hours today, so we'll pow wow about it a bit and see what can be done...
Glad to here it man.
I would say if they could pull it off 8 years ago, there shouldn't be any doubt you can do it now. :D
Vecha
2011-09-03, 02:13 PM
You never know, man!
This is something we've talked about quite a bit in the office, but it involves a lot more than you guys may realize. It's not just making a couple dozen character animations, it involves modeling and texturing all the vehicle interiors, making all the doors separate, animated pieces of the vehicles, i.e. essentially remaking many of our current vehicles.
We definitely get that this is something that you guys love from ps1 and want in ps2. I'm on a bus with T-Ray and Elam for 5 hours today, so we'll pow wow about it a bit and see what can be done...
I really hope you guys can put it back in :confused:
BorisBlade
2011-09-03, 09:02 PM
Glad to here it man.
I would say if they could pull it off 8 years ago, there shouldn't be any doubt you can do it now. :D
Yeah its definitely not a memory constraint if they could pull it off back then, the animation budget wouldnt be much different per vehicle slot which obviously was very small compared to modern memory. If anything its a time thing.
dachlatte
2011-09-04, 07:14 AM
Nope. The moment you pressed E, you were save from damage.
and you can almost instantly fly/drive off. just press "M" twice
so i still dont understand what all the fuzz is about.
basti
2011-09-04, 10:09 AM
Wait, what? What are you talking about?
dachlatte
2011-09-04, 02:23 PM
I thought they fixed the map boarding bug.
why would they fix it? its not a big deal. its doesnt change the gameplay at all. 10 pages of drama for nothing...
Malorn
2011-09-04, 05:54 PM
The few seconds delay before the vehicle is usable is the important gameplay piece. The actual animations I personally couldn't care about but they fill the time gap and make the time gap intuitive.
However, I'd also be content with a cockpit/driver view and a little progress bar that says "Powering up..." or something like that.
The way Arma2 did it was pretty good and didn't really require changing the vehicle model.
Avirau
2011-09-04, 07:17 PM
why would they fix it? its not a big deal. its doesnt change the gameplay at all. 10 pages of drama for nothing...
That's a pretty significant bug and yes it does change gameplay. The entire point is that it's supposed to take a couple seconds before you are in control of a vehicle and vice versa when exiting.
It's also an immersion factor, which is why this really bothers me. It just looks really retarded having a bunch of people walk up to the side of a vehicle and then instantly disappear and the vehicle drives away. I loved seeing the animations in PS1 and I really hope that they find the time to have them return for PS2.
CutterJohn
2011-09-04, 09:02 PM
That's a pretty significant bug and yes it does change gameplay. The entire point is that it's supposed to take a couple seconds before you are in control of a vehicle and vice versa when exiting.
Thats the effect. Nobody can say what the point was. The actual point of the animations may have just been to look cool.
dachlatte
2011-09-04, 09:03 PM
99% of the time it does not change anything. the 1% where one would actually notice it doesnt justify the the effort to implement it. its not reasonable
lets be honest... it boils down to a purely esthetic thing.
Talek Krell
2011-09-05, 04:19 AM
Setting aside that your statements contradict each other, why would aesthetics be unimportant?
Aractain
2011-09-05, 04:27 AM
1%? Its only ever asthetic. Its no different that a "rev up timer". If you have to holster your weapon and theres a timer before your in control its exactly the same as PS1.
But the way it looks and feels (animation quality) is important. Important enough to spend hundreds of hours of the art team redoing models and adding animations to them? Not IMO. Just make getting into a vehicle cool in some other way, cool start up sounds and maybe the Arma1/2 style boarding animations as suggested.
Crator
2011-09-05, 08:16 AM
I believe it is important to add those animations in. Will it kill the game if it isn't in right away? No. In fact, it would be a smooth move (since you don't have it ready yet) to wait until after launch and add them in as you can. Get all the other BS stuff out the way like balancing and game play first.
dachlatte
2011-09-05, 09:16 AM
I believe it is important to add those animations in. Will it kill the game if it isn't in right away? No. In fact, it would be a smooth move (since you don't have it ready yet) to wait until after launch and add them in as you can. Get all the other BS stuff out the way like balancing and game play first.
listen to this man
NCLynx
2011-09-05, 05:41 PM
I just don't want to see something like this lol
http://youtu.be/k-wFI9vTqto
And yes I'm aware that even without animations they can limit the game as to where something like this couldn't happen.
Logit
2011-09-05, 05:54 PM
I just don't want to see something like this lol
http://youtu.be/k-wFI9vTqto
And yes I'm aware that even without animations they can limit the game as to where something like this couldn't happen.
I don't want to see that either.
But that was a sick move.
I believe it is important to add those animations in. Will it kill the game if it isn't in right away? No. In fact, it would be a smooth move (since you don't have it ready yet) to wait until after launch and add them in as you can. Get all the other BS stuff out the way like balancing and game play first.
I would hope the people balancing the game aren't the same people in charge of working on the art assets.
Erendil
2011-09-05, 08:13 PM
The few seconds delay before the vehicle is usable is the important gameplay piece. The actual animations I personally couldn't care about but they fill the time gap and make the time gap intuitive.
However, I'd also be content with a cockpit/driver view and a little progress bar that says "Powering up..." or something like that.
The way Arma2 did it was pretty good and didn't really require changing the vehicle model.
Agreed. The delay is the important thing. If it'd cost too much dev time/money to make actual animations, then don't include them. But a delay needs to be included regardless.
I'd be okay with actual animations only if it didn't change the perspective from 1st to 3rd person. Forcing a perspective change on me like that actually made PS1 animations less immersive for me, not more. I disabled them years ago because of this.
Incidentally, if you disable the animations in PS1 you get the "progress bar-style" enter/exit with delay. I find it works quite well.
But you shouldn't have to holster your weapon when entering. The game should auto-holster it for you, and then auto-draw it again when you leave.
Zulthus
2011-09-05, 09:23 PM
I disabled them years ago because of this.
Incidentally, if you disable the animations in PS1 you get the "progress bar-style" enter/exit with delay. I find it works quite well.
But you shouldn't have to holster your weapon when entering. The game should auto-holster it for you, and then auto-draw it again when you leave.
Wait, what? You can disable them? There's a progress-bar style alternative? How have I never heard of this :confused:
It already does this in PS1
Erendil
2011-09-05, 09:56 PM
Wait, what? You can disable them? There's a progress-bar style alternative? How have I never heard of this :confused:
It already does this in PS1
Yes. Go to the bottom of the 1st page on This thread (http://forums.station.sony.com/ps/posts/list.m?topic_id=300139051) on SOE's board. It tells you how. It's real simple to do. I've had it set that way since--..... Well, at least since I posted on page 2 of that thread on 07/1/2004... :D
I thought I'd mentioned it to u guys Zul. Must not have... Excuse me while I go pop on darkhq real quick... ;)
EDIT: It's not exactly bug-free though, which is probably why it's not widely used and most people nowadays haven't heard of it before..
cellinaire
2011-09-05, 10:26 PM
Of course they will add these animations. It's only the matter of at launch or post-launch =)
Avirau
2011-09-06, 01:20 AM
Thats the effect. Nobody can say what the point was. The actual point of the animations may have just been to look cool.
Hence why in the following paragraph, which you chose not to quote, I stated that I'm mostly bothered by the loss of immersion... it's ridiculous to have people just instantly disappear next to a vehicle, it completely takes you away from the world.
Logit
2011-09-06, 10:04 AM
Of course they will add these animations. It's only the matter of at launch or post-launch =)
Well if you have been following the news they originally said that it's not in the budget for them to put them in.
Which is where the debate stems from. There's no guarantee that anything not in at launch will ever be in the game. What if they go a 2 months, 6 months, or a year without some of these things?
They will rationalize that "hell, the game is doing pretty well without (insert some words here), why bother adding it now?"
Again, it's not a deal breaker. However, people have made it very clear we want these features in the game. The developers know this. So if they choose to ignore the public, again, whats that say for the future of the game?
Sure, the outcome of the poll only included a couple hundred people. I'd say the people on these boards are pretty damn passionate about this game, and we are giving them free ideas simply because we all want the game to do oh so very well.
At the end of the day if you don't appeal to the paying customers, your game will be shit.
(Insert jokes about PS1 failures here)
Mirror
2011-09-06, 10:08 AM
Gunnersmate or anyone else from NIC wont get any kills if pilots gets instant control of aircraft. :rofl: :rofl: They will be even more of a free kill than usual.
That said vehicle animations were in PS 1 and I think they belong in PS 2 aswell. If the developers say they cant add them then they are being too lazy imo.
cellinaire
2011-09-06, 09:58 PM
Well if you have been following the news they originally said that it's not in the budget for them to put them in.
Which is where the debate stems from. There's no guarantee that anything not in at launch will ever be in the game. What if they go a 2 months, 6 months, or a year without some of these things?
They will rationalize that "hell, the game is doing pretty well without (insert some words here), why bother adding it now?"
Again, it's not a deal breaker. However, people have made it very clear we want these features in the game. The developers know this. So if they choose to ignore the public, again, whats that say for the future of the game?
Sure, the outcome of the poll only included a couple hundred people. I'd say the people on these boards are pretty damn passionate about this game, and we are giving them free ideas simply because we all want the game to do oh so very well.
At the end of the day if you don't appeal to the paying customers, your game will be shit.
(Insert jokes about PS1 failures here)
Indeed there's no guarantee. As one of many long-time players of SOE games myself, however, I'm almost certain that they'll add animations (at least gradually) in 5 years after launch. Well, my instinct says so anyway :cool:
Punker
2011-09-06, 11:17 PM
if it didn't change the perspective from 1st to 3rd person.
omg that would be amazing, hopping into a piece of equipment in first person. Watching your hands grab onto handles, climb up, slide in and grab the controls.
I'd give my left nut to have this :D
Crator
2011-09-06, 11:20 PM
^^^ That would be pretty sweet actually. A more realistic approach to boarding animations.
Talek Krell
2011-09-06, 11:23 PM
+1 to the preceding idea.
Lokster
2011-09-06, 11:40 PM
omg that would be amazing, hopping into a piece of equipment in first person. Watching your hands grab onto handles, climb up, slide in and grab the controls.
I'd give my left nut to have this :D
+1 to this.
Not worth setting back development by 6 months for it. But it would be cool. :D
Graywolves
2011-09-07, 05:08 AM
+3
+1
=4
+4 to that idea
Heaven
2011-09-07, 05:34 AM
I think we'll all get used to not having any animation getting in vehicles. I would prefer to have them but if SOE decide against it then its their choice, It also makes for quicker action instead of waiting maybe 3 seconds to get in the vehicle your in and off to fight! Maybe later down the line they will add it as an update, but as we all know it wont effect game play at all so they might as well leave it out for now.
basti
2011-09-07, 08:26 AM
I think we'll all get used to not having any animation getting in vehicles. I would prefer to have them but if SOE decide against it then its their choice, It also makes for quicker action instead of waiting maybe 3 seconds to get in the vehicle your in and off to fight! Maybe later down the line they will add it as an update, but as we all know it wont effect game play at all so they might as well leave it out for now.
Erm, the animations dont affect gameplay, right, but the delay does.
There is nothing, i repeat NOTHING more annoying that fighting some guy in direct combat, just to have him instantly hop into a tank and bomb the crap out of ya. The delay nicley fixes that, because it gives you time to react (flee like a bunny, or emp nade). The Animation actually adds in there, as it allows you to see the guy getting into the vehicle, instead of having him just dissapear.
But, more important: The level of immersion those animations added to planetside is just far more that you can imagine. And immersion is fun, alot of fun.
as for myself, i rather wait 6 more month without ANY news to get those animations, than having the game now and never get the animations. I want them, badly.
just wondering who got the idea of not adding them right away. If Planetside 2 is supposed to be AAA graphics, how could it lack a graphical feature that the years old first game has?
Aractain
2011-09-07, 09:53 AM
Which delay? Holstering will probably still be there (and easy to add). A rev up timer is also easy to add. Other than that what delay was there in PS1?
Also BF3 dosn't have them... MASSIVE AAA GAME ALERT! So that point dosn't really hold.
I wouldn't mind waiting for them personaly but from SOE's point of view I wouldn't want to spend money on stuff I could be spending on other things (like dropping buildings in, big criusers, more vehicles/content for players to buy in the cash shop).
Crator
2011-09-07, 10:23 AM
^^^ What do you mean? Do you play PS1? There's a delay in the time you press G to enter/exit a vehcile. During that time you see a boarding animation. If the person is in battle with an opponent and presses G to escape the damage and then start shooting at their opponent. If there was no delay at this point then the opponent would not have enough time to react to it.
Aractain
2011-09-07, 11:59 AM
Which is exactly the same as the "rev up timer" idea. The point being it dosn't have to effect gameplay if they don't want it to.
ArcIyte
2012-03-19, 12:29 PM
One of my few pet peeves about BF3 (and it's a big one), is the ability to instantly get in and get out of a vehicle with no animation or delay.
Anyone whose played BF3 already knows what I'm talking about. Getting into a close tank battle. It comes down to the wire, you're both in the red, and the other guy instantly jumps out and fires an RPG.
It's incredibly arcadey and shallow. I think if you're in a non-open topped or transport vehicle, you should be committed to that vehicle and ditching it because you're about to die should not be as simple as hitting your use key.
Vancha
2012-03-19, 12:33 PM
You're slightly late to the party on this one. Lots of people want them, but supposedly they'd take too much development time. I really hope we see them post-release, though. I remember someone mentioned the idea of first-person vehicle boarding, which sounded awesome.
Knocky
2012-03-19, 12:33 PM
not even worth it....good luck on your new and interesting thread.
bullet
2012-03-19, 12:58 PM
Another one of these? :rolleyes: Seems like the same topics get a new thread every day.
basti
2012-03-19, 01:03 PM
WE had a poll n those animations already. YES won by a lot.
Jennyboo
2012-03-19, 01:08 PM
I said yes but as I recall Higby saying that doing that would add on a ton of time :) so maybe post launch.
Vancha
2012-03-19, 01:11 PM
Another one of these? :rolleyes: Seems like the same topics get a new thread every day.
Not everyone keeps up with PS2, so they don't know what's been posted before. If the same thing comes up repeatedly, it's probably because it's one of the most relevant issues to the largest amount of people.
Look on the bright side, if this is the extent of people's worries about PS2, it's probably headed in the right direction. :p
ArcIyte
2012-03-19, 01:12 PM
I said yes but as I recall Higby saying that doing that would add on a ton of time :) so maybe post launch.
Having a progress bar is fine until animations can be made
Geist
2012-03-19, 01:20 PM
Hopefully post-launch won't be a huge disaster in balancing terms so that they can get on to with the more important stuff aka vehicle animations. It's just not Planetside without them...
Lokster
2012-03-19, 01:26 PM
Another vehicle entering animation topic? I personally can do without them. Half the time - they are buggy and don't look right. All the time - they are annoying.
Also, they said adding this "feature" would require the complete remodeling of all vehicles to include moving doors and interiors. Seems like a lot of time for a feature that really is not important.
Vancha
2012-03-19, 02:05 PM
Another vehicle entering animation topic? I personally can do without them. Half the time - they are buggy and don't look right. All the time - they are annoying.
Also, they said adding this "feature" would require the complete remodeling of all vehicles to include moving doors and interiors. Seems like a lot of time for a feature that really is not important.
Immersion - not important. You heard it here first, folks.
Lokster
2012-03-19, 02:21 PM
Immersion - not important. You heard it here first, folks.
It's not as important as the thousands of other things they still need to design and balance and not frankly worth delaying launch by another 6 months.
Furthermore, I felt really "immersed" when I entered a vehicle in PS1 and my camera view shoot below the surface of the terrain into pixelated nonsense showing only the sky, if I was on the slightest hill. Or when I was gunning a gal-gunship and my character jumps out the wrong side of the plane -- every single time.
I'm telling you what -- I was completely immersed.
MrBloodworth
2012-03-19, 02:23 PM
not frankly worth delaying launch by another 6 months.
Yes it is. Polish is what makes games.
Lokster
2012-03-19, 02:25 PM
Yes it is. Polish is what makes games.
It's a design concept that was planned to be left out of the game altogether. The point is, there is no need to polish it. Polish other things that the devs actually want in the game...
Vancha
2012-03-19, 02:31 PM
It's not as important as the thousands of other things they still need to design and balance and not frankly worth delaying launch by another 6 months.
Furthermore, I felt really "immersed" when I entered a vehicle in PS1 and my camera view shoot below the surface of the terrain into pixelated nonsense showing only the sky, if I was on the slightest hill. Or when I was gunning a gal-gunship and my character jumps out the wrong side of the plane -- every single time.
I'm telling you what -- I was completely immersed.
Yeah, and cloaking occasionally bugged in PS1 too, so cloakers should be removed from PS2. Oh, lets not forget jumping. Seeing people jump up and then slide out of the ground was silly, so lets remove jumping. Then you have strafing. People who strafed teleported like crazy, so lets remove that too.
Boarding animations, when they didn't bug, worked wonderfully and served their purpose well. Holding their PS1 faults against them in regards to PS2 is pointless.
Lokster
2012-03-19, 02:35 PM
The point is .. It's something PS2 staff scrubbed for a reason. They feel other things are far more important. As do I.
This topic has been discussed here several times, and I don't see anyone getting a different answer from the devs. Keep on keeping on tho .. I suppose it can't hurt.
FastAndFree
2012-03-19, 02:35 PM
It wouldn't take much work to make it possible to add it later without pissing off everyone though.
Lokster
2012-03-19, 02:37 PM
I have no problem with it being added later. I also like the progress bar idea in the mean time.
I just believe there are more pressing issues at hand...
Kran De Loy
2012-03-19, 02:39 PM
Yes! A thousand times Yes!
But... not gonna happen. :(
I hope it gets added in, but I would also like to see a lot of other things added in that imo are much more awesome.
Like someone's idea of making those uncapturable warp points capturable after they've finished adding in Naval battles and off-shore bases.
Vancha
2012-03-19, 02:42 PM
I just believe there are more pressing issues at hand...
Oh, certainly. Making the game playable and polishing the core aspects of the game to retain the initial playerbase is of course the priority. I just think calling it unimportant underestimates it's impact (I mentioned this in the gun suppression thread).
My only worry is that their system in the mean time won't lend itself to being "upgraded" to boarding animations.
Aurmanite
2012-03-19, 02:43 PM
Yeah, and cloaking occasionally bugged in PS1 too, so cloakers should be removed from PS2. Oh, lets not forget jumping. Seeing people jump up and then slide out of the ground was silly, so lets remove jumping. Then you have strafing. People who strafed teleported like crazy, so lets remove that too.
Boarding animations, when they didn't bug, worked wonderfully and served their purpose well. Holding their PS1 faults against them in regards to PS2 is pointless.
This post doesn't make any sense at all. If you were trying to make a point about something in the post you quoted, you failed.
Enter/exit animations were neat and they did prevent some of the cheesy gameplay mentioned in the OP. However, the choice was made to focus on more important things in order to finish the game. For now, we will have to deal.
Also, the whole 'ruins immersion' argument is ridiculous. Having features that enhance immersion is important but it is not as high of a priority as some of you make it out to be. It's way more important that guns feel right, or tanks sound right, than jamming in a load of crap for no reason other than adding immersion. "Look at the butterflies and how they flutter, they create immersion!"
This is a first person shooter, not a life sim. Try getting immersed in killing people.
MrBloodworth
2012-03-19, 02:44 PM
I have no problem with it being added later. I also like the progress bar idea in the mean time.
I just believe there are more pressing issues at hand...
Don't underestimate the connection they bring to the vehicle, the overall campaign and the solidity they bring to the game.
Something lacking in other titles.
It's way more important that guns feel right, or tanks sound right
True, they ( Animations ) should not be top priority. However they do effect things like pace.
Everything you mention, and animations are not mutually exclusive.
Try getting immersed in killing people.
#Sessionbasedthinking
Rbstr
2012-03-19, 02:45 PM
I don't care and the poll is needlessly binary, so I voted no.
Lokster
2012-03-19, 02:45 PM
This post doesn't make any sense at all. If you were trying to make a point about something in the post you quoted, you failed.
Enter/exit animations were neat and they did prevent some of the cheesy gameplay mentioned in the OP. However, the choice was made to focus on more important things in order to finish the game. For now, we will have to deal.
Also, the whole 'ruins immersion' argument is ridiculous. Having features that enhance immersion is important but it is not as high of a priority as some of you make it out to be. It's way more important that guns feel right, or tanks sound right, than jamming in a load of crap for no reason other than adding immersion. "Look at the butterflies and how they flutter, they create immersion!"
This is a first person shooter, not a life sim. Try getting immersed in killing people.
ROFL. Quoted for truth sir. Well said.
texico
2012-03-19, 03:14 PM
...
Aurmanite
2012-03-19, 03:24 PM
#Sessionbasedthinking
I don't understand what you mean. Could you define session based thinking for me?
MrBloodworth
2012-03-19, 03:30 PM
I don't understand what you mean. Could you define session based thinking for me?
Only thing that matters is the individual. Only thing that matters is personal goals. Only thing that matters is individual advancement. No thought is given to the larger game aspects. Only thing that matters is the personal gratification. Reliance on others is a hindrance. Nothing matters beyond the next 30 minutes. Nothing matters beyond my K/D. I am a one man army.
TL;DR Boom Headshot.
Not really a bad thing, I occasionally just want to log in and frag people too, and to each his own. But is not very helpful in a team based game, where the focus should be larger than the individual.
It would stand to figure, in a thread about animations, people would discuss animations, this does not mean they hold it in higher priority than gun feel. It just means it also matters.
Aurmanite
2012-03-19, 03:33 PM
Only thing that matters is the individual. Only thing that matters is personal goals. Only thing that matters is individual advancement. No thought is given to the larger game aspects. Only thing that matters is the personal gratification. Reliance on others is a hindrance. Nothing matters beyond the next 30 minutes. Nothing matters beyond my K/D. I am a one man army.
TL;DR Boom Headshot.
Not really a bad thing, I occasionally just want to log in and frag people too, and to each his own. But is not very helpful in a team based game, where the focus should be larger than the individuial.
Absolutely none of this applies to vehicle enter/exit animations and/or my points about immersion.
#getoffyoursoapbox
MrBloodworth
2012-03-19, 03:33 PM
It applies to your comment. Don't ask about things you don't want answers to.
Shogun
2012-03-19, 04:06 PM
the animations are not top priority, but they have to be added to complete the planetside feeling.
it would be enough to just have a little part of the team work on those after release, adding the animations in for one vehicle at a time, starting with the galaxys and sunderers. use a progress bar or vehicle startup sequence as temporary solution so the additions would not change balance.
the majority of the devteam could focus on other additions or bugfixes and sooner or later everyone is happy.
Lokster
2012-03-19, 04:09 PM
the animations are not top priority, but they have to be added to complete the planetside feeling.
it would be enough to just have a little part of the team work on those after release, adding the animations in for one vehicle at a time, starting with the galaxys and sunderers. use a progress bar or vehicle startup sequence as temporary solution so the additions would not change balance.
the majority of the devteam could focus on other additions or bugfixes and sooner or later everyone is happy.
I like this idea a lot.
MrBloodworth
2012-03-19, 04:11 PM
Its one most of us that want the animations back in have been promoting. But I would also Waite another 6 months.
Kran De Loy
2012-03-19, 04:11 PM
I like this idea a lot.
seconded.
Vancha
2012-03-19, 04:14 PM
This post doesn't make any sense at all. If you were trying to make a point about something in the post you quoted, you failed.
Well then it's good I followed it up with a paragraph to clarify then, eh?
The technical failures of aspects of PS1 has no baring on their suitability for PS2.
Also, the whole 'ruins immersion' argument is ridiculous. Having features that enhance immersion is important but it is not as high of a priority as some of you make it out to be. It's way more important that guns feel right, or tanks sound right, than jamming in a load of crap for no reason other than adding immersion. "Look at the butterflies and how they flutter, they create immersion!"
Pretty sure I agreed with that before you posted it.
EVILoHOMER
2012-03-19, 05:02 PM
Vehicle animations are bad because they mean you're defenceless until it's over. In real life this doesn't happen, you can shoot and use the door as cover or whatever. Having no animation like BF games is the best compromise, it lets you defend yourself within game mechanics of today. I think more people would call for them to be gone if they get put in, only people that seem to want them is the PS veterans but I never thought they were a great part of the game, just got repetitive and boring.
ArcIyte
2012-03-19, 05:24 PM
Vehicle animations are bad because they mean you're defenceless until it's over.
That's the choice you make when you go out in a vehicle. If you screw up and take critical damage you shouldn't be able to instantly hop out and save yourself. It should take a few seconds. That kind of gameplay belongs in Unreal or Battlefield Heroes, not PS2.
In real life this doesn't happen
shut up
only people that seem to want them is the PS veterans but I never thought they were a great part of the game, just got repetitive and boring.
It serves a purpose. It isn't just a pretty animation. Instantly getting in and out of vehicles during combat is looks and plays cheesy and poorly done.
I run around with the T-90 tank in BF3 every chance I get, and you know what I do when I get flanked by a support guy planting C4 on me? I instantly jump out and waste the guy. I do the same if I'm about to die as well.
Vancha
2012-03-19, 05:24 PM
Vehicle animations are bad because they mean you're defenceless until it's over. In real life this doesn't happen, you can shoot and use the door as cover or whatever.
What vehicle are you thinking of? That might apply to a Sunderer, but otherwise...
"In real life", if someone's within reasonable shooting distance, you probably aren't going to try climbing into a jet or up a tank.
This is assuming the boarding animations don't make you invincible of course, as it did in PS1.
Knocky
2012-03-19, 05:28 PM
This is assuming the boarding animations don't make you invincible of course, as it did in PS1.
9 out of 10 cloakers swears at it.
And the 10th is a nub.
In and out animation will take resource from the game dev thats i want to be use for a lots of thing over that issue and in some way it will certainly take a way to much job to get it rigth there is to much vehicules to makke proper animation for each ... driver seat gunner seat tales gunner seat etc..etc..etc..
Hamma
2012-03-19, 05:40 PM
I have merged the new thread with the old. The topic is still valid and there was quite a bit of discussion that would be valid in the new thread. :)
Fenrys
2012-03-19, 06:21 PM
I voted 'no', but would like to see them added later.
Higby thinks it would add 6 month onto development time. I'd rather start playing 6 month earlier and hope the animations get added with an expansion.
Atheosim
2012-03-19, 06:51 PM
I voted 'no', but would like to see them added later.
Well that's not indicative of your stance, is it? If you say "no" that means no forever, if you say "yes" that doesn't necessarily mean "yes, right here and now".
I voted yes. I don't care if they're in at launch, but I very, very much want them to be added later on.
sylphaen
2012-03-19, 07:18 PM
9 out of 10 cloakers swears at it.
And the 10th is a nub.
Did those 9 swear at instant vehicle entry or the lengthy animations before they got pulverized ?
:D
Hack the vehicle THEN shoot the driver. Life is a gamble ! (especially for cloakers :rofl:)
Talek Krell
2012-03-19, 07:26 PM
I've already voted yes, of course. When they show up I'm flexible on, but I think leaving them out would be a missed opportunity. The fact that Battlefield has set the laziest possible standard with this sort of thing is just one more chance to impress the players we're trying to attract. I'm seeing some truly odd arguments in here...
Could somebody explain stuff like this?
the whole 'ruins immersion' argument is ridiculous. Having features that enhance immersion is important but it is not as high of a priority as some of you make it out to be.Because it looks like you're trying to tell us that immersion isn't important.
It's way more important that guns feel right, or tanks sound right, than jamming in a load of crap for no reason other than adding immersion.And then following up by explaining how important it is that the tanks and guns sound right? Do you imagine that if they sound wrong they might...break your immersion?
xSquirtle
2012-03-19, 07:30 PM
This should be a non-issue, boarding animation should be the standard for this game. This was one driving point that originally got me interested in the game. It was never done on a such a scale, and added a unique prospective in the game.
Mastachief
2012-03-19, 07:32 PM
I'm not fussed either way with the animations, as long as the seat switching has a delay i'm fine with their implementation.
Ruwyn
2012-03-19, 07:53 PM
The animations weren't that long. Instant switching between driver/gunner is pretty dumb as well. Put a timer on it if you don't want to have people get out of the vehicle to change seats.
As others have mentioned..... They don't have to be in right away.
thought I saw a quote somewhere about 6months development time for them. What? seriously? you got like 1 guy 4 hours a day or something? MoCap is you're friend.
Shogun
2012-03-19, 08:04 PM
thought I saw a quote somewhere about 6months development time for them. What? seriously? you got like 1 guy 4 hours a day or something? MoCap is you're friend.
higby told us about the 6 months that would have to be added to the project.
you just have absolutely no idea what they have to do to implement it. all vehicles would have to be redone to have interior and moving doors. it´s not just the animation of the soldiers that is missing.
higby also said, that none of the devs thought it would be such a huge issue for so many of us. i guess if they knew this early in developement they could have included the animations with little effort, but now it´s too late.
but it´s still a must to do it at some time because the bf3 vehicle entering is so last year! it´s even so last decade! and it´s a huge step backwards from ps1.
Ruwyn
2012-03-19, 08:19 PM
well the end of getting in and the beginning of getting out are the same with rotating the character models differently. The vehicles would definitely need a some tweaking, but the vertices should all be there already unless they just textured over the doors...
Anyway...hope they do it at some point.
MrBloodworth
2012-03-20, 11:56 AM
Vehicle animations are bad because they mean you're defenceless until it's over.
It does not have to mean this. This is 2012.
IronMole
2012-03-20, 12:10 PM
It does not have to mean this. This is 2012.
So how would you propose to do it?
The current vehicle animations on Planetside suck.
NivexQ
2012-03-20, 01:37 PM
Make it so you have to be basically in the seat already before you can enter. Like if you were to get in a galaxy you have to actually climb up the ladder, open the canopy (or it can open automatically once you start climbing, whatever) and be right by the seat, and then you can get in. This means that you can jump right on an atv, but it would take a little more time to get in the big vehicles.
Warborn
2012-03-20, 02:16 PM
It sounds like an lot of work for something that doesn't really make any difference and isn't very impressive to watch. But if they wanted to spend time on it because they don't have other things to create animations for, I wouldn't care.
MrBloodworth
2012-03-20, 04:26 PM
So how would you propose to do it?
The current vehicle animations on Planetside suck.
As far as being immune to damage: Uh.. Add hit detection? Maybe, just maybe. :D
As far as defenseless, get squad mates?
Crator
2012-03-21, 11:02 AM
Make it so you have to be basically in the seat already before you can enter. Like if you were to get in a galaxy you have to actually climb up the ladder, open the canopy (or it can open automatically once you start climbing, whatever) and be right by the seat, and then you can get in. This means that you can jump right on an atv, but it would take a little more time to get in the big vehicles.
So, like, you mean you're in control of your character while climbing the ladder/opening the door before actually pressing another key to enter? I actually kind of like this idea. Also allow them to defend themselves with small sidearms while entering or exiting. Perhaps even the ability to jump off the ladder.
IronMole
2012-03-21, 11:25 AM
As far as being immune to damage: Uh.. Add hit detection? Maybe, just maybe. :D
As far as defenseless, get squad mates?
So, what you're saying then is;
I can be killed while "watching" a crappy animation of me entering a vehicle?
To prevent that from happening I must use "team mates"?
I see...
Warborn
2012-03-21, 11:29 AM
I don't think it makes a significant amount of difference, but if you are shooting at a guy that is beside a sunderer, right before he dies he could "E" inside, press "2" to change seats and come out of the other side of the vehicle.. assuming it works that way. Instaboarding was always a big issue in the BF series in clan matches, not so much in pubs.. I just don't want an exploit that could be corrected before launch go untested.
I guess that's what beta is for though, so hurry up with development so we can beta test instaboarding :P :D
Instant boarding I could see being a valid concern, but they could solve that pretty easily without making those fairly complex animations as PS1 had.
I'd like the animations but it's not a big deal,if the problem is avoiding instaboarding, it's easily fixed. Nano-thing particle effect, player stuck still for a second (or two or 999) while Scotty does his job, vulnerable to fire.
Tamas
2012-03-21, 11:48 AM
Well I'd prefer to avoid them, but I don't mind up to 2 second animation.
Boarding animations are good because it solves instaboarding issues and it adds character to the game.
Preparing in sanc and seeing everybody climb into galaxies... those were good times. Seeing people simply disappear would be lame.
Shogun
2012-03-21, 01:27 PM
look up outfit videos on youtube...
it´s almost safe to say, there is not a single one without a scene of the squad entering a transport. if it´s such a unnecessary feature, why is it used for every single video? because it just looks awesome and watching stuff like that ingame makes you feel like you are really immersed in a big military mobilisation!
MrBloodworth
2012-03-21, 02:04 PM
I always say, Starship troopers would have been more awesome with out the boarding animations.
They just take to long!
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/robn1/Starship%20Troopers/2-StarshipTroopersCinefex.jpg
:D
polywomple
2012-03-21, 02:17 PM
Because I felt like a baddass entering and leaving my Marauder
Grimshad
2012-06-03, 06:42 PM
Sorry for bringing back an older thread, but this is one of the major things in PS1 that set it apart from most other games. Like others have said, while not a deal breaker, those animations made PS1 1000X more amazing and I don't care if you have to push back PS2 a year, I would wait years and buy the damn game just for this feature!
SKYeXile
2012-06-03, 06:52 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/SKYeXile/MTG-ThreadNecromancer_3198.jpg
Fanglord
2012-06-03, 07:02 PM
Honestly, when I was looking at old PS videos to get a grips of the type of game play; when I saw the animations I said 'pretty cool' out loud. Nice touch, and I'd imagine it would stop in/outters.
SpcFarlen
2012-06-03, 07:05 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/SKYeXile/MTG-ThreadNecromancer_3198.jpg
Beautiful sir.
But since it is up... I would like to see it. Adds something cool to the game and makes destroying a vehicle so much better because you actually get the kill.
Toppopia
2012-06-03, 07:24 PM
I hope they add delays into entering and exiting, will help people ease into the animations instead of 1 day instant entering/exiting, next day 5 second delay.
Brusi
2012-06-03, 07:35 PM
funny shit
I'm happy if people keep ressurecting this post exile... especially if Higgles notices the attached poll continue to become more skewed.
NCLynx
2012-06-03, 07:37 PM
Can I live (and die...alot) without it? Yes. Would it be an AMAZING addition to the game after release (hopefully not to long after?!)? Absolutely.
Envenom
2012-06-03, 07:44 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/SKYeXile/MTG-ThreadNecromancer_3198.jpg
Watch out guys, the forum police are here. Make sure you only post in threads Skyexile approves from now on.
In other news, this would be a welcome addition and will probably get added in down the road.
T MAN
2012-06-03, 07:52 PM
I found this while watching TB braodcast just recently, wonder what it means? hmmmm
http://s18.postimage.org/y8e1ez5qt/iexplore_2012_06_03_19_39_47_41.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/y8e1ez5qt/)
SKYeXile
2012-06-03, 07:57 PM
Watch out guys, the forum police are here. Make sure you only post in threads Skyexile approves from now on.
In other news, this would be a welcome addition and will probably get added in down the road.
no exiting animations in BF, i dont understand...why would you want it?
Tarconus
2012-06-03, 07:57 PM
I found this while watching TB braodcast just recently, wonder what it means? hmmmm
http://s18.postimage.org/y8e1ez5qt/iexplore_2012_06_03_19_39_47_41.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/y8e1ez5qt/)
Probably an ejection seat type thing.
Envenom
2012-06-03, 08:00 PM
no exiting animations in BF, i dont understand...why would you want it?
The prone makes up for it ;)
Revelator
2012-06-03, 08:02 PM
It's a lot of extra work, but it's something I really hope they put in down the road, its those small things that normally go unappreciated that made Planetside feel unique, and have a fluent world.
T MAN
2012-06-03, 08:08 PM
Check it out i remenber seeing this a long time ago...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=hQ62XBepML8
Zekeen
2012-06-03, 09:54 PM
Ya know guys. I know that 99% of us agree to release the game now rather than wait 6 months, but I also know a very large % of us want Exit/Enter animations to EVENTUALLY be added. Anyone know if Higby has stated that they will after release, or if they will work on it all along for 6 months or so for us?
Though, I see why it'll take so long. They haveto animate the vehicle too, but there could possibly be some conflicts with the modifications, so getting it to work without breaking the vehicle is probably the issue. They had trouble with turrets, still do (to a minor extent). I believe that once they get the game release it won't take 6 months to make the animations, since similar work in the game would have figured out issues that would have arisen before.
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