Fan Faire Q&A Part 3 Locational Damage

[Hamma]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/news-fan-faire-qa-part-3-2502.htm

We have the answers to some of these questions sadly but there is one particular one that is sure to create some discussion.

[NCLynx]

Good stuff!
Although I dunno about headshots to much >.>

[Lunarchild]

Spawn in galaxies? Interesting.

Just a note, I think the "only" should be "not" in "...squad spawning can only happen indoors..." ;)

[Lunarchild]

Good stuff!
Although I dunno about headshots to much >.>

No-one said head-shots are instant-kills yet ;)

[Manitou]

Spawn in galaxies? Interesting.

Just a note, I think the "only" should be "not" in "...squad spawning can only happen indoors..." ;)
Corrected to "not". Thanks for the sharp eye!

[Hamma]

Spawn in galaxies? Interesting.

Just a note, I think the "only" should be "not" in "...squad spawning can only happen indoors..." ;)

Yea my bad, updated.

[ANaKeR]

Very happy to hear this. This will be a major enhancement from Planetside.

[L4G]

Its all getting a bit exciting now!

I am curious about headshots though, snipers I can understand getting an insta-kill with a headshot but I dont see if will be much use to give anyone ot anything that ability.

[Tigersmith]

this gets me fired up. No headshots please

[Goku]

This is funny. Matt says there is no sanc/hart which sounds like there is no real major staging area. Yet, he says "squad spawning actually drops a capsule from the sky", which is what the hart did. Does that mean there is some kind of Orbital platform that people could go to? I still do not understand the whole sanc slows down gameplay. You login, hit m see where the fight is, and get in your vehicle to get there. Have they elorbrated as to where we will go when we login? I sure hope we aren't going to be dropped into the middle of a fight between tanks to only get creamed lol.

Matt, I do have a question for you outfit the most basic way to make outfits stand out, the outfit symbol. Right now there is a limited amount of symbols in the orignial PS, so you truly cannot just see the Symbol and know its that outfit among the several know that use it. Have you considered a similar system for customizing outfit symbols like Guild Wars does? With Guild Wars a guild can create a cape to show its identity. The cape allows many different colors, symbols, and borders. With so many combinations its nearly impossible to see identical ones. No, I do not want cape, but a similar system could be applied to outfit symbols and armors. With how I am interpreting your Outfit customization its sounds like user can actually submit their own, but there could be issues obviously with inappropriate pictures. A similar system to GW customization would allow for major customization without the need to be policing inappropriate armors/symbols. That right there just sounds like a massive overhead with there being thousands of clans during the lifetime of PS2.

I am loving the idea of intertwining Squad/Outfit objectives and getting rid of the CR system. I know there is still OSes, but with the whole skill system sounds like it will keep the number of those down.

[Lunarchild]

This is funny. Matt says there is no sanc/hart which sounds like there is no real major staging area. Yet, he says "squad spawning actually drops a capsule from the sky", which is what the hart did. Does that mean there is some kind of Orbital platform that people could go to? I still do not understand the whole sanc slows down gameplay. You login, hit m see where the fight is, and get in your vehicle to get there. Have they elorbrated as to where we will go when we login? I sure hope we aren't going to be dropped into the middle of a fight between tanks to only get creamed lol.

That's exactly where they'll drop you :) The rest of us get to start in the unconquerable perfectly safe bases that exist on each continent ;)

[Grimster]

Yeah sucks that they are including headshots. But oh well can't have everything your way. :)


Interesting with the ability to spawn in a Galaxy.

I get this image with a Galaxy hovering above a base and troops dropping out of it like a army of lemmings jumping off a cliff. :D

Probably not even near how it will look in reality but sometimes you just got to let your imagination go crazy. :D

[2coolforu]

I don' think galaxies will be able to hover given the new flight mechanics and the ability to spawn inside

[Marsman]

I don' think galaxies will be able to hover given the new flight mechanics and the ability to spawn insideI believe Matt said flying a galaxy will be the equivalent of flying a C130 with all the flight physics and mechanics in place. Thus "hovering" is likely not to be an option. Will take some real skill to place troops on target as a galaxy pilot.

[Grimster]

I don' think galaxies will be able to hover given the new flight mechanics and the ability to spawn inside

Ye ye, I said it was in my imagination not that I expected that it would work that way. :D

[2coolforu]

C130 ROLLIN' DOWN THE STRIP!

Sorry couldn't resist, the Galaxy sounds awesome fun to pilot - I loved being a gal' pilot in PS1 and this sounds like a whole new ball game!

[Manitou]

C130 ROLLIN' DOWN THE STRIP!
AIRBORNE DADDY GONNA TAKE A LITTLE TRIP! :p

[Marsman]

Yeah with the flight physics, all air is going to be a new ball game. Matt said before, it was like flying a camera in PS1. Now it will take some real skill to be an accomplished pilot - can't wait!

[Goku]

That's exactly where they'll drop you :) The rest of us get to start in the unconquerable perfectly safe bases that exist on each continent ;)

Oh please no :(. That will only make me rage during my gaming session too much.

I believe Matt said flying a galaxy will be the equivalent of flying a C130 with all the flight physics and mechanics in place. Thus "hovering" is likely not to be an option. Will take some real skill to place troops on target as a galaxy pilot.

What about the Osprey (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/v-22-pic01461.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/air/rotary/v22osprey.html&usg=__a8D5p9Dz0iSMLAMqDcee70EmBDs=&h=541&w=970&sz=63&hl=en&start=1&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=X0ca7NQFX7jPFM:&tbnh=83&tbnw=149&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dplane%2Bto%2Bhelicopter%26um%3D1%26hl %3Den%26client%3Dopera%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Den%26chann el%3Dsuggest%26biw%3D1646%26bih%3D862%26tbm%3Disch&ei=IBgbTp_uJ5GcgQehqMgj)? That could allow for hovering ops possibly. Does the C130 mechanic mean there will be a runway in order to take off and land? That is going to be a major pain in the rear if so, but its livable.

[etheral]

So that's positional damage on vehicles confirmed. Combined with a night cycle this has the potential to be utterly, utterly awesome. Concealed infantry ambushing a tank column at night? Yes please :)

Also, has there been any word on specific vehicle components being damageable? Tracks and the like?

[Rbstr]

No one has said headshots are one hit kills.

Really, a modern FPS that isn't all cartoony would get laughed at for lack of location-based damage.

[basti]

Headshots?

And bang, my exitment just went all the way down to frustration.

Are you out of you goddam mind? Matt, i know you read this, now listen VERY carefully:

DO you really want some random kiddy to come around a corner and headshot 6 guys in a row? DO you really want to just be on the field, fighting against the enemy, and get insta killed without the ability to do ANYTHING against it?
Do you really want to have a giant community of cheaters always trying to exploit your engine to build aimbots?
Because that are the things you will get if you include headshots. Even if they dont insta kill with any infantary weapon, they would be a major boost to your damage, reason enough to aim for that.

On top of that, including heatshots will make weapons like the Lasher pointless. You wont be able to hit the head of a moving target if your bullet is somewhat slow compared to usual guns.

And if you think you need headshots to get a bigger audience: Valid point and valid idea, but you are wrong. The majority of COD, CS 1.6, CS:S, Battlefield etc. players dont enjoy getting hit in the head every time that one, really skilled guy comes around a corner.



Headshots are the source of frustratment for EVERYONE, while being a source of joy for just a very few people.

Dont include them into Planetside 2, please.


to the rest:
Command system:
Squad and outfit is good stuff, PS1 really lacked that. But make sure you make Continental or even Global command possible and really useful, because thats the stuff im enjoying alot.

Flight system: If i can use my X52 Pro i once buyed for Jumpgate Evolution to fly my stuff like a actual plane with loopings, rolling etc, then im a happy bunny. :>

[SGswift]

Whats up with all these "no head shot" people? This is an FPS, if this game is going to expand in terms of player base we need to get with the program. If you can't aim well cert support/medic class or just shoot for the chest and let others who enjoy a good FPS (with it's aiming factors) enjoy the challenge/reward of being skilled at what they do.

[basti]

Whats up with all these "no head shot" people? This is an FPS, if this game is going to expand in terms of player base we need to get with the program. If you can't aim well cert support/medic class or just shoot for the chest and let others who enjoy a good FPS (with it's aiming factors) enjoy the challenge/reward of being skilled at what they do.


Do you want massive fights with 1000 players in the same area? Then you need to NOT have headshots, otherwise you will just frustrate 900 of those 1000 guys.

[Goku]

Basti, really head shots depend on how much damage it is going to do. Its the smallest hit box, so it will take serious skill to make the best use of the bonus. I am being hopeful for once this will not make for instant death as well, as that would be a major depature from the original.

I don't think a Global/Cont message system is necessary either. As long as Platoon/Squad commanders have access to an open channel to coordinate I believe that will be a good replacement for the older system. I find c chat far more effective then /com abilities now as everyone can feed info to each other regardless of their locations. You could potentially open up the squad command to other players who are deemed as good SLs through its specific skill tree. From the gists of it sounds like there will be a system for rewarding good SLs. With that hopefully there won't be idiots in the channel.

[basti]

You are right. If headshots do quite little more damage than body shots, then its all okay. But i just try to make sure that headshots just do a little more damage. And a little is not more than 5%. 10% more damage with you gun would make headshots just way to powerful.

And just to make this clear: I would not be frustrated by Headshots. Im actually quite skillful, played CS1.6 and CS:S for years, long years in various gaming leagues, for a year even as professional. I would propably tear you apart and eat your babies before you even realize whats going on, and i know very well that this would frustrate you alot if you just cant counter my skill. And thats the problem. You cannot counter pure skill. Making players skill count more than equipment is a good thing, but making it count too much is a very very bad thing and will drive alot of people away. Equipment is a goal you can reach sooner or later, it just takes time. Skill is something you can just learn over time to some degree, but it vastly depens on your Computer setup, your physical health and your personality.

[artifice]

Matt, don't listen to the whiners. Put in one shot kill headshots. I think some of these people would rather not aim at all. They can just look at each other and press the left mouse button until one of them runs out of health.

[moosepoop]

one shot kill infantry combat in planetside 2 will be utterly unplayable.

at times of high lag it will turn into spawn, spend 5 minutes getting ready to battle field, instant death, repeat. a ver frustrating experience.

for 1000 man battles you are going to have lag, period. there has to be high hp low damage infantry combat to prevent surprise lag kill.

one thing i love in planetside 1 is aimbots are completely useless. adding powerful headshots are going to change all that.

[Goku]

Matt, don't listen to the whiners. Put in one shot kill headshots. I think some of these people would rather not aim at all. They can just look at each other and press the left mouse button until one of them runs out of health.

Haha. Lets have a guy with a minigun in the long corridor then and watch him mow down waves of guys trying to get him.

[LZachariah]

I think that they will be able to deal with headshots appropriately. Obviously, only time will tell, but I think that there will be a gradient of how much bonus damage is dealt. For instance, Agile and Standard Armor could be 1-hit kills if you score a headshot (because the helmet is lighter and the face is exposed) but reinforced exo-armor might take a few headshots (which is EXTREMELY hard to pull off) and MAX's might not be vulnerable to headshots at all (except, perhaps, from Anti-Tank weapons). Yes, if you can strike a Burster in the faceplate with a Lancer, that SOUNDS to me like a one-hit kill. I doubt people will succeed at this feat very often.

Just my thoughts. Matt? Am I kind of on track with this?

~Zachariah

[DviddLeff]

Brilliant update!

Head shots; wanted since day one
Location vehicle damage; wanted since day one
Spawning in Galaxy's; suggested in my upgrade project
Tagging targets: suggested in my upgrade project after playing Republic Commando and Brothers in Arms
Customisable outfit skins; suggested in my upgrade project

Needless to say, I'm a happy man.

I honestly do not understand why people are frustrated with head shots; PS is pretty much the only FPS from the past 15 years without them! If anything populations will suffer if they are not included; its an established FPS game play mechanic that rewards skill and is expected of ANY FPS!

Sure you will have people building aimbots to try and abuse the system, but you get hackers and cheaters anyway (COF hack, speed boost, etc); with an MMO you can ban their account, just like on Steam.

[Volw]

I think that they will be able to deal with headshots appropriately. Obviously, only time will tell, but I think that there will be a gradient of how much bonus damage is dealt. For instance, Agile and Standard Armor could be 1-hit kills if you score a headshot (because the helmet is lighter and the face is exposed) but reinforced exo-armor might take a few headshots (which is EXTREMELY hard to pull off) and MAX's might not be vulnerable to headshots at all (except, perhaps, from Anti-Tank weapons). Yes, if you can strike a Burster in the faceplate with a Lancer, that SOUNDS to me like a one-hit kill. I doubt people will succeed at this feat very often.

Just my thoughts. Matt? Am I kind of on track with this?

~Zachariah

Wonder how Lashers are going to work then? Auto-crit when within 5m of targets' head? :p

[moosepoop]

i think a compromise is bonus damage, but not instant kill.

[Sirisian]

Yeah they're going to need to reevalute this headshot thing. The polls we had in the headshot thread don't lie. Could just be us veterans though, but the idea of even 133 enemies firing is a lot of bullets and you get hit a lot. But... you survive because a few randomly placed shots doesn't kill. With the faster TTK and now headshots I fear medics will only be used to revive. Then again that might be the new idea. I guess we'll see.

[Goku]

Wonder how Lashers are going to work then? Auto-crit when within 5m of targets' head? :p

One moment SOE said the current HA weapons are getting scrapped, but then there was mention of a minigun. Granted a minigun is a generic gun, so any empire could get one or even be a common pool weapon.

[artifice]

one shot kill infantry combat in planetside 2 will be utterly unplayable.

at times of high lag it will turn into spawn, spend 5 minutes getting ready to battle field, instant death, repeat. a ver frustrating experience.

for 1000 man battles you are going to have lag, period. there has to be high hp low damage infantry combat to prevent surprise lag kill.

one thing i love in planetside 1 is aimbots are completely useless. adding powerful headshots are going to change all that.

We might as well just dispose of the aiming altogether. Replace it with where you select a target and instead of pressing the left mouse button to shoot, you can just hit a skill on the hot key bar.

[NCLynx]

Matt, don't listen to the whiners. Put in one shot kill headshots. I think some of these people would rather not aim at all. They can just look at each other and press the left mouse button until one of them runs out of health.

I'd be able to spray and pray with a Jackhammer not even be aiming at your head and get a headshot. While it'd be funny to me, it would also make the game shit.

[Volw]

One moment SOE said the current HA weapons are getting scrapped, but then there was mention of a minigun. Granted a minigun is a generic gun, so any empire could get one or even be a common pool weapon.

Ah, good news then. Always had a locker full of TR/VS weapons as I could not stand Jackhammer.

Vanu will have to learn to aim then? :p ;-)

[Goku]

Ah, good news then. Always had a locker full of TR/VS weapons as I could not stand Jackhammer.

Vanu will have to learn to aim then? :p ;-)

Thankfully yes.

[artifice]

I'd be able to spray and pray with a Jackhammer not even be aiming at your head and get a headshot. While it'd be funny to me, it would also make the game shit.

I never said every weapon should instantly kill. Damage should be something like double. So if it takes two hits from a sniper rifle to kill you, it only takes one. Other weapons get advantage for hitting the head, but aren't instant kills unless they are some heavy duty weapon that is hard to aim to begin with.

[Kouza]

We might as well just dispose of the aiming altogether. Replace it with where you select a target and instead of pressing the left mouse button to shoot, you can just hit a skill on the hot key bar.

I never said every weapon should instantly kill. Damage should be something like double. So if it takes two hits from a sniper rifle to kill you, it only takes one. Other weapons get advantage for hitting the head, but aren't instant kills unless they are some heavy duty weapon that is hard to aim to begin with.
That is the problem.... One shot head shot with sniper rifle..... Ever heard of no scoping? I can see the ..... No cross hairs argument but, all it takes is a dry erase marker to fix that, or stickers. Sounds fun... Instead of HA indoors we will have sniper rifles :)

[Lunarchild]

That is the problem.... One shot head shot with sniper rifle..... Ever heard of no scoping? I can see the ..... No cross hairs argument but, all it takes is a dry erase marker to fix that, or stickers. Sounds fun... Instead of HA indoors we will have sniper rifles :)

Heck, you get one for free with the NVidia 3D package... Just hit a key combo and it draws a crosshair on your screen.

[Rarntogo]

i think a compromise is bonus damage, but not instant kill.

I like this as a compromise. Bonus damage I'm ok with. With recoil and such it gives those of us that dont have the skill/twitch a chance. If someone is that much better than me do I deserve to win one on one? No. but if aiming for just my head makes the margin for error higher then I'm all for it. I always have a chance and thats all I want.. I dont want to die constantly just because someone can fire ONE shot faster and more accurately than I can.

[Volw]

I can see the future! :evil::evil::evil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5SXFuVF5xc&feature=player_detailpage#t=15s

[artifice]

That is the problem.... One shot head shot with sniper rifle..... Ever heard of no scoping? I can see the ..... No cross hairs argument but, all it takes is a dry erase marker to fix that, or stickers. Sounds fun... Instead of HA indoors we will have sniper rifles :)

I don't think a marker or sticker is going to exactly work. Seeing as this isn't Doom.

You could also not only not have crosshairs, but it could fire more erratically without using the scope.

[NCLynx]

I can see the future! :evil::evil::evil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5SXFuVF5xc&feature=player_detailpage#t=15s

How'd you get that leaked PS2 gameplay?
Edit for OT: I'm really hoping it doesn't end up like this. The poll in the other thread for whether people wanted headshots or not was 43+ not at all 35+ said yes but not OSOK and only 7 said yes OSOK

[Goku]

How'd you get that leaked PS2 gameplay?

Oh god. Thats a priceless comparison.

[artifice]

I can see the future! :evil::evil::evil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5SXFuVF5xc&feature=player_detailpage#t=15s

Steady Aim is the future?

[Lunarchild]

How'd you get that leaked PS2 gameplay?
Edit for OT: I'm really hoping it doesn't end up like this. The poll in the other thread for whether people wanted headshots or not was 43+ not at all 35+ said yes but not OSOK and only 7 said yes OSOK
I don't think anyone wants THAT. 'Sides, that's not even possible if the current PS1 sniper riffle started 1-shotting ;)

[moosepoop]

i thik if a normal shot does 50% damage, a headshot can do 80 to 90% damage.

it will be a two hit kill if the enemy if full health and prepared, but if he took slight damage already from maybe small arms fire it would one shot kill him.

in bad company 2 a lot of the sniper rifles are two hit kills, even with headshots.

[Rarntogo]

Steady Aim is the future?

Uhm...yeah... right. :rolleyes:

[Straws]

Ok, headshots....easy to take out of context when not a lot is given.

The important part of what they meant there is that "where you shoot, matters". That is a good premise and a good direction to take the game.

However, remember that chances are, we will have various grades of armour in PS2. This is what I would expect as damage from a bolt driver-esque sniper rifle in PS2.

PJs and Infiltrator = 100 health lost, instant kill in most situations
Agile Exo = 75 health lost, 25 armour lost
Reinforced = 50 health lost, 50 armour lost
MAX armour = 100 armour lost, regardless of where the bullet strikes...although MAX armour appears to be less protective now from the concept art and I wonder if that is intentional for gameplay as well.

I would also hope for other affects from a more detailed hitbox.
Being hit in the arms would affect accuracy, reload time and weapon swap time.
Being hit in the legs would affect run speed and jump height.
Being hit in the head would blur vision (slightly).
Being hit in the body doesn't affect anything, but armour absorbs more of the impact than any other part of the body.

Maybe this goes further than necessary for Planetside, but I wouldn't claim it to be the wrong direction. Adds combat value to the correct armour for the correct situations. Especially if ReXos and AeXos can get better helmets for situations where snipers are all over the place.

[basti]

I would also hope for other affects from a more detailed hitbox.
Being hit in the arms would affect accuracy, reload time and weapon swap time.
Being hit in the legs would affect run speed and jump height.
Being hit in the head would blur vision (slightly).
Being hit in the body doesn't affect anything, but armour absorbs more of the impact than any other part of the body.



Planetside 1 already had that, they called them BFRs. Now guess what, they sucked, and alot of people hate them.

While they where overpowered for quite a while and are now somewhat balaced, the entire "hit there to do that" mechanic turned out to be a bad thing. It ended up that you didnt care where you hit the bfr, as long as he just looses something you were happy, and the BFR slowly lost his ability to defend himself.

These days you dont see alot of BFRs around. And every time you do, just hit them somewhere and they have do a full retreat and repair up to be able to do damage again. Not fun for the BFR pilots, not at all.

Besides that, how to deal with different weapons? A sniper rifle would do alot of damage but shoots slowly, means it hit only one body part at a time, but significantly affect what he hits, like making you extremly slow if he hits you in the leg? Then what about fast ROF, low damage weapons like a MCG? He would just hit you literally everywhere, means you run a bit slower, shoot a bit less accurate and have a sligtly blury vision? That would make you pretty much unable to fight back at all.

Im ok with damage depending where you hit. a shot in the torso should do more damage than a shot in your arm or your feet. But headshots, means doing alot more damage than a shot in the torso, are a bad thing because they just make every new player that needs to get a feel for the weapons recoil and how to play in general an easy target. That would frustrate them, let them stop playing before they even had the slight chance of seeing the full game.

[DviddLeff]

That is the problem.... One shot head shot with sniper rifle..... Ever heard of no scoping? I can see the ..... No cross hairs argument but, all it takes is a dry erase marker to fix that, or stickers. Sounds fun... Instead of HA indoors we will have sniper rifles :)

You played any FPS made in the past 5 years that have sniper rifles, or hell, even Planetside?

When not zoomed in they aim all over the place, you will almost never hit the centre of the screen when moving.

[Dreamcast]

Glad Developers actually are evolving this game.


So glad they fixed sniping with headshots.


Ps1 Sniping made the sniper be safe most of the times....When you got shot, you just heal yourself.


Im sure Headshots are gonna be hard and probably be part of the skill tree and will require sacrifices to do.


or perhaps only people without helmets will get headshot since I did see people without helmets in the game

[Wakken]

Hmm... didnt mention anything about AMS's for spawning? I really hope they're in. I loved driving those!

[Goku]

Hmm... didnt mention anything about AMS's for spawning? I really hope they're in. I loved driving those!

Yes they are in the game still.

[SGswift]

Do you want massive fights with 1000 players in the same area? Then you need to NOT have headshots, otherwise you will just frustrate 900 of those 1000 guys.

One VERY important new feature that people have failed to mention is the fact that there is squad spawning this time around. There was also mention of sandbags, (perhaps in the future) and of course there will still be medics and armor upgrades. This isnt your old Planetside its better and there will be alot more places to fight in a large scale battle. Your not going to have 500 players over here and 500 over there in a stale mate for hours over a bridge or crammed into a little tower. In the year 2012 do people really want play a game where being shot in the foot does the same damage as being shot in the head? I love there direction the team has taking it adds a hint of urban combat realism giving veterans a much need new feel and making hardcore FPS players take notice.

[2coolforu]

Yes they are in the game still.

I thought they were replaced by a Galaxy

[Goku]

I thought they were replaced by a Galaxy

I don't think we can expect Galaxies to be in the air all the time. I am 100% sure I saw Matt say this.

EDIT: Now I cannot find. >.>

[opticalshadow]

i can no longer make opinions safly about the game. its sounding more like battlefield every q/a, i need to see real gameplay footage.

[Bags]

When not zoomed in they aim all over the place, you will almost never hit the centre of the screen when moving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5SXFuVF5xc&feature=player_detailpage#t=15s

[Volw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5SXFuVF5xc&feature=player_detailpage#t=15s

lol, I see my earlier post lives on! ;-)

[Bags]

lol, I see my earlier post lives on! ;-)

Best part? He's doing that on a fucking 360.

Imagine that with a mouse.

[Volw]

Best part? He's doing that on a fucking 360.

Imagine that with a mouse.

Haha, imagine pulling headshots with magrider! :D

[opticalshadow]

Haha, imagine pulling headshots with magrider! :D

in hte last year of ps, ive been killing almost exclucivly useing hit and runs with the phaty, just to add some challange to the game.

if we have localized dmg, and vehicles can proc it, it might make some vehicles a bit op for unit farming.

[Captain1nsaneo]

i can no longer make opinions safly about the game. its sounding more like battlefield every q/a, i need to see real gameplay footage.

They've said that BF2 and BF:BC have both been major influences.

[Sifer2]

This Q an A has some weird answers.

Galaxy spawning seems like it will invalidate the AMS. Would be better to just make AMS smaller an let the Galaxy carry it now or something. Cause a airborne moving respawn point is going to be mostly impossible to take out for the guys on the ground. Gonna be annoying to have to always hope there is plenty of anti air pilots around to help you. An a lot of time there wont. Unless Galaxy must land to allow respawn. But then its still redundant.


An Headshots. Man we have been over this a good deal. Over the years I have kind of grown to dislike them even in fast paced run an gun shooters. Let alone in a game like Planetside. There are so many downsides to it an no real positives except pleasing the Sniper kill whores an hackers.

A lot of weapon types will be shunned cause they probably wont be optimal for scoring headshots. Close range combat may be broken with long range rifles still hanging in there just by spraying at the head. An that's if the guns are accurate enough now to make it work this way. If netcode is still kind of poor an guns have a big accuracy cone then this is basically be like putting in TF2 crits. Just spray at guy an sometimes get lucky bonus bullcrap damage. Which no one wants.

[Volw]

I'd assume Galaxy spawning will almost certainly require speccing into the vehicle but also possibly Outfit having the specialisation for it.

Also, they've confirmed ground-to-air weapons, so might be a little easier to take down.

Still, PS should not be balanced towards 'guys on the ground' who are incapable of bringing either air support or their own AA units.


Agreed regarding headshots ;-)

[opticalshadow]

They've said that BF2 and BF:BC have both been major influences.

teh creators of call of duty said that doom had major influence on them, metalica said it was influenced by pink floyd, they are still wildly diffrent.

to me its sounding less liek ps will roll with their own ideas, and start adapting otehrs. and while i hope truly im wrong, the q/a hasnt been reasureing.

[Tikuto]

what use are the super-future cyber helmets, then? fuck sake.

NO HEADSHOTS PLEASE.

[stargazer093]

personally, I don`t mind with headshots, as long a normal assault rifle bullet won`t instant kill an full health infantry in rexo or agile. however, it shouldn`t takes more than 3 bullet to kill with headshots that normally required 8 or 10.

[Tool]

I need to say a few things; Planetside was a pioneer for the MMOFPS market. However it's easy to say it failed as a game and in it's intention. The reasons why are irrelevant at this point.

CoD's current generation of games suck, opinion obviously but many Planetside players share this notion. It sucks as an FPS, not as a game though. Easy to say as a long time FPS gamer but also because of it's success as a game.

Battlefield 2/2142/BC:2 did a lot of things right and judging the progress made on BF3, they've got their tech down to a science. BC2 felt good, played well and was balanced decently. Like CoD, it's been successfull.

Planetside was it's own game; however, modern FPS's and their success show what the wide consumer base prefers and failing to adapt PS2 in some ways to accommodate these preferances will ultimately lead a game that depends on many players for it's core gameplay to ruin.

Planetside reskinned with new physics would probably not be more or just as sucessfull as it was after it's release those 9 years ago. FPS gamers are not a niche crowd, there's easily definable sucesses and failures in the market to be read by future developers. The point I'm trying to make is that people who are getting worked up over single or even multiple changes in PS2 have to learn to make concessions in what they've expected PS2 to be.

I'm not saying don't voice your opinion over changes you don't really agree with, that's not how progress is made. But there's a severe lack of moderation in tone and intention which is sadly based off of small bits of information given out very recently.

Also, speculation is fun if done properly; but reading a small snippet of info then blowing a gasket from further speculation isn't healthy so far away from release.

[Tikuto]

NO TO HEADSHOTS.

I've already suggested this potentially brilliant alternative idea against this recent locational damage upset. I think it be more important it be in this thread...




Lethal and Non-Lethal hitboxes Essentially all your character's hitboxes deals same damage value in-take.
Lethal hitboxes would terminate the character at 0 health points.
Non-Lethal hitboxes would incapacitate the character at 0 health points.
Final blow decides either Non-Lethal or Lethal.

How it works?
The final blow decides the player's fate. All damage taken will lead to either a successful 'lethal' take-down or an unsuccessful 'non-lethal' take-down. Headshot would obviously be a 'lethal' hitbox.

Incapacitated players are very limited on what they can do. Probably nothing. They may as well be dead or continue waiting for a Medic.
Terminated players are ... dead. Oh well. Lulz!

[Tool]

NO TO HEADSHOTS.

I've already suggested this potentially brilliant alternative idea against this recent locational damage upset. I think it be more important it be in this thread...




Lethal and Non-Lethal hitboxes Essentially all your character's hitboxes deals same damage value in-take.
Lethal hitboxes would terminate the character at 0 health points.
Non-Lethal hitboxes would incapacitate the character at 0 health points.
Final blow decides either Non-Lethal or Lethal.

How it works?
The final blow decides the player's fate. All damage taken will lead to either a successful 'lethal' take-down or an unsuccessful 'non-lethal' take-down. Headshot would obviously be a 'lethal' hitbox.

Incapacitated players are very limited on what they can do. Probably nothing. They may as well be dead or continue waiting for a Medic.
Terminated players are ... dead. Oh well. Lulz!

I know MAG has a bleedout timer which is something similar, headshots while bleeding out drain the timer faster than just body shots. MAG has headshots in regular play as well though.

Personally I don't see many legitimate faults to having locational damage considering it's almost expected of modern FPS games. And anyone who brings up the quote about PS1 and it's engine limiations on multiple hitboxes, just going to stop you now and say quit using last generation technologys limitations to current gen tech.

[Death2All]

There's a lot of criticism going on in this thread right now and I feel the need to clarify a few things. I'll be referring to points I've made in previous threads.


On the topic of uncaptureable footholds on every continent:



So when everyone logs on will they be sent to the same foothold? Or does it send them to the one on the cont they were last at. It seems to me that would just promote people to fight on whatever continent they just started at and go from there.

With no staging ground like a sanctuary to organize and ready troops it sounds like one chaotic mess where people spawn wherever and attack everything. ESPECIALLY without the lattice system.

I'm very confused. Information has been very limited on how they work so far, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. (I'm saying this a lot lately)

As I pondered in the quote, what happens when we log in? Do we start off in a random foothold on a cont? Is it the the foothold of the last cont we were on? Will people just fight on whichever continent they spawned on never leaving for a different cont because a fight is always present on the one they started off on? Is this the aim for the game? There's a lot of stuff that needs clarifying.

On the topic of headshots:


I don't think anyone is arguing that you shouldn't die when 100 people are shooting at you. That's a given.

It's the increased lethality, scale of the game, and luck factor that are the issue. Huge 100v100v100 fights with the prevalence of getting shot in the head ONCE and dieing would be very infuriating.




I never thought head shots had a place in a game where HUNDREDS of people will be fighting each other at a time with bullets flying every which way. It would make going through a choke point even more difficult with the ability to get instagibbed, amplified by the fact that there's a squad of people shooting at you and it would be frustrating as all hell.


Some people have pointed out that a headshot may just give an increased damage multiplier which honestly wouldn't be too bad. But if it behaves in the fashion of any hardcore shooter game out there nowadays where 1-2 shots in the head instagibs you then I'm completely against. The scale of Planetside is too large to have the ability of instagibbing people. Thousands of people shooting each other and you have the potential to one shot kill someone with your rifle? No thanks.

[SKYeXile]

So many people seem so obsessed with modelling this game off tactical shooters(including the developers) when originally this game took more influences from arena or scifi shooters, such as unreal, tribes and halo. Yes headshot are rather standard now, but the success of halo clearly tells us that guns dont have to behave realistically and that a cone of fire is acceptable in gameplay, also that guns dont need to have bullet dip or another garbage like prone or quick knifes in tactical shooters.

[Tool]

So many people seem so obsessed with modelling this game off tactical shooters(including the developers) when originally this game took more influences from arena or scifi shooters, such as unreal, tribes and halo. Yes headshot are rather standard now, but the success of halo clearly tells us that guns dont have to behave realistically and that a cone of fire is acceptable in gameplay, also that guns dont need to have bullet dip or another garbage like prone or quick knifes in tactical shooters.

That's a very good point about PS being like unreal, tribes, halo and their gameplay characteristics. However judging by the markets, the staying power seems to lie in those tatical shooters. Halo is a dying breed, as technology grows greater and greater things can be done in games that couldn't in the Goldeneye era (<3 Goldeneye).

The direction they took with PS2 seems logical, from both a buisness and gameplay perspective. Now I can't say for sure if they've made the right choices until the game is playable but their vision is apparent.

My whole opinion about Planetside and it's potential could be wrong though, perhaps those years ago had they done something different from BFRs and CC, it may have been the staple for the MMOFPS genre; but it's not.

We can't forget the Sci-fi MMO's that failed in it's vision or failed entirely. Those are lessions to be learned from if the MMOFPS genre hopes to succeed.

[SKYeXile]

Yea halo maybe dying, but i think there is still a strong calling for a decent scifi or arena type gameplay shooter, there has not been a good one on Pc since TF2, before that...UT2K4 i would think.

i Think alot of the games try to be to realistic, when at the end of the day they're not a similuator, they're for entertainment.

[Bags]

I'm fine with some "modernization" but I do not want PS2 to be COD on large scale.

[Tool]

I'm fine with some "modernization" but I do not want PS2 to be COD on large scale.

Agreed, my biggest gripe with CoD was easily the aim-assist. Halo it's not that intrusive and is ok as it isn't trying to be a modern shooter. However, giving the facade of a realistic shooter then throwing these arcade elements on top takes the game to a very annoying level.

Realistic staples are fine in an FPS so long as artifical elements like aim-assist or that bullet drawing bullshit to make up for latency stay out. The usual gripes like iron sights and sprinting don't make much sense to me, iron sights are great and feel good in an FPS and Surge = Sprint.

[Hamma]

Hmm... didnt mention anything about AMS's for spawning? I really hope they're in. I loved driving those!

There are still AMSs as well, so I'm not sure how it all factors together. :) I'm sure Gal spawning requires some kind of training into the Galaxy skill tree.

Now we know what Smed meant when he said it was different.

[BorisBlade]

Headshots are fine if they are say +50% damage or whatever. Osok with snipers in the head is bad period. Even most modern shooters make em take two shots which is perfect. Now thats with snipers that shoot like the bolt driver not those semi automatic things you see in many games. Snipers wll be much better in ps2 simply for the better graphics and better cover that you couldnt get in PS1.

Vehicle hit boxes, these im wary about. They can be done well but they can also be done poorly like with BFR's. Or if he shoots my weapon it stops working while my vehicle still has 80% health, thats pure stupid. Leave tires and tracks alone too. If some parts are more armored ok, but careful with that stuff cause bfr's are pur annoying to drive with the constant "oh now you move at a crawl" warning and "now your weapons are junk" warning "now you cant turn" etc etc, its just boring and ticks you off since even if at 95% health you now have to leave...often slowly and go repair just to keep playing. But aside from these BFR's planetside has the best vehicle combat of any FPS, its not even close.

Also make sure that vehicle combat is similar to ps1 and not like BF, in that even my buggy weapons will kill a tank....eventually. He doesnt have any special resistance, just more armor points. In bf that big machinegun on my humvee or light tank does nothin to a tank, which may be realistic with an abrahms armor, but its boring. If i cant kill a tank with anything but a tank, then im only rolling tanks. I prefer to use a faster light tank to use hit and run and take em out, or other alternate means. That adds much more variety and fun to the game imo.

And be sure to put in enter and exit animations!!!!!! (or atleast a delay of some sort)

[opticalshadow]

I need to say a few things; Planetside was a pioneer for the MMOFPS market. However it's easy to say it failed as a game and in it's intention. The reasons why are irrelevant at this point.

.

i agree with some of your post, but planetside did not fail becuase of planetside.

planetside was a packed game with servers that were full all day. planetside failed when sony introduced a new mechanic that didnt fit into the games very delicate balence of things, and they took far far to long to fix it. its in the same way SWG failed, they introduced something they shouldnt have, and exiled the vast majority of their fanbase.

planetsides gameplay was never an issue for players, nore was the lag or any of that, claiming planetsied failed as a game is, from what i would say, a huge mistake, it failed on a developer level.

and as far as modern cod of bf games go, the biggest problem the reviews run into i read, or when im hanging out in a gamestop customers complain about is the gameplay. it favortist to a certain strategy, and the features are old and feel liek their being milked. the problem with ps2 adopting these gameplay mechanics is they are already feeling their age in the games that made them, and ps is suposed to last years on the same mechanics, when they are already getting tired. and IMO the only reason CoD and BF still reign supreme is the lack of competition. there just are not many choices for modern aged shooters that have the budget they do, and the fanbase you build after being around for decades as a company and with the same game name

[Tool]

I guess I should clarify then. Early on the game was in great shape, populations were high, fights were huge and the experience was truely unique. However the game fell short in a few key areas, first being staying power. MMOs need longevity to survive and PS1 lacked a system to keep players for the long haul. The second bigest issue was its very basic FPS mechanics compared to the innovations at the time. Failing to draw in more players from the massive FPS player base.

In order for a game like Planetside to succeed and have staying power it needs to do these key things well enough to garner enough attention and keep players interested. Without those massive fights, there was nothing to set it apart aside from the sub price.

[Bags]

Planetside died because they included BFRs which no one wanted. Once BFR drove the population down SOE stopped giving a damn and the game slowly and surely began to die.

[Tool]

Planetside died because they included BFRs which no one wanted. Once BFR drove the population down SOE stopped giving a damn and the game slowly and surely began to die.

I think we've talked about this before but perhaps this is best left for another thread asthis ones a bit side tracted.

Also about locational damage on vehicles, I'm assuming it wont be like bfrs more so weaker areas which take more damage like the rear of a tank.

[Rbstr]

BFR's weren't the only problem. Gaming was simply leaving PS in the dust. 2k4/5 offered some major titles some maiking with big inroads on what made PS unique.
In FPS land: FarCry, Doom3, Source games offered amazing graphics and physics. BF2 offered fairly massive combat in huge maps with all the bells and whistles and a huge leap in the "feel" of shooting things.
In MMOs:
EVE was starting to take off in terms of massive player coordination and Scifi content. And, of course, WoW.

Going by what was going on at this side at the time, we had massive amounts of people playing CS:S and then BF2 in addition to lots of people going to WoW and a small group going to eve (Our corp was planetside defense union, ROFL...the channel still exists ;) )

[SKYeXile]

planetside died long before BFRS, the fact they shut servers down after 6 months was a givaway of that. planetside lack no real sense of accomlishment for players, which it seems so many people need theseday, thats they they have added all this stuff with resources and skills overtime stuff, to give people a goal or a carrot on a stick if you like.

[Bags]

planetside died long before BFRS, the fact they shut servers down after 6 months was a givaway of that. planetside lack no real sense of accomlishment for players, which it seems so many people need theseday, thats they they have added all this stuff with resources and skills overtime stuff, to give people a goal or a carrot on a stick if you like.

Hmm, I always heard BFR killed it.

[SKYeXile]

It probably helped to shovel the dirt onto the coffin, but planetside pops dwinined shortly after release, core combat, that was also another terrible expansion. more zones to spreadout a dying population in? GO IDEA!

[Straws]

Planetside 1 already had that, they called them BFRs. Now guess what, they sucked, and alot of people hate them.

While they where overpowered for quite a while and are now somewhat balaced, the entire "hit there to do that" mechanic turned out to be a bad thing. It ended up that you didnt care where you hit the bfr, as long as he just looses something you were happy, and the BFR slowly lost his ability to defend himself.

These days you dont see alot of BFRs around. And every time you do, just hit them somewhere and they have do a full retreat and repair up to be able to do damage again. Not fun for the BFR pilots, not at all.

Besides that, how to deal with different weapons? A sniper rifle would do alot of damage but shoots slowly, means it hit only one body part at a time, but significantly affect what he hits, like making you extremly slow if he hits you in the leg? Then what about fast ROF, low damage weapons like a MCG? He would just hit you literally everywhere, means you run a bit slower, shoot a bit less accurate and have a sligtly blury vision? That would make you pretty much unable to fight back at all.

Im ok with damage depending where you hit. a shot in the torso should do more damage than a shot in your arm or your feet. But headshots, means doing alot more damage than a shot in the torso, are a bad thing because they just make every new player that needs to get a feel for the weapons recoil and how to play in general an easy target. That would frustrate them, let them stop playing before they even had the slight chance of seeing the full game.

Actually, what I described is how the bolt driver already functions in Planetside 1 (exception, I don't recall instant death when wearing PJs), however, I was stating that it should only function that way upon headshots. I could've been clearer by stating that a non-headshot would only take 75% of the potential shot, before armour mitigation.

For example;
Bolt Driver vs ReXo
Max potential damage from Bolt Driver = 100
ReXo pushes 25% of incoming projectile damage from health to armour

Head 75 health 25 armour
Other 56-57 health 18-19 armour
(values indicate points lost)

Regarding the additional affects of being struck, personally, if I were to add the feature in the way I suggested, the negative affect would be short, like 2 seconds, and once you're over the shock, it wont occur again until you've been left alone (no damage at all) for 1 minute. Mostly because you are now in combat and you're bracing yourself for impact. (I do, personally, feel that it is a design feature that would be too much for Planetside)

edit: removed different values for limbshots as it was a stupid idea. The negative affects are enough, even with a one time occurance.

[opticalshadow]

planetside died long before BFRS, the fact they shut servers down after 6 months was a givaway of that. planetside lack no real sense of accomlishment for players, which it seems so many people need theseday, thats they they have added all this stuff with resources and skills overtime stuff, to give people a goal or a carrot on a stick if you like.

eh, i kidna of doubt much of that will work. i mean, maybe theyll add alot of stuff. hardcore players will grind it out in a few months, by a years end casual players will have attained near anything worth getting in the game. any fps or mmo has that issue. sense of achomplishment will come from what the players want, not what the game offers.

things they could do is adding clan tags to captured bases, or territory owned, giving clans a sense of territory control within the empire, that alone would have went a along way. i know its not much, but the amount of people who love the lime light in these games is astounding. another thing i think would help with the achomplishmet part would have been to make bases and contenints more worthwhile, specific tech to diffrent things. ps1 had some of this, but end of the day there were workarounds, and maybe ps2 already has this planned, but needing to control a territory is better then wanting to, it gives a soldire a reason to fight.

i think what killed planetside was the fact it was an MMO, at the time for it to pull it off it had to sacrifice alot in both form and function, sony being sony didnt help, but the fact non mmo fps' were evolving as fast as they were really didnt help. now i think ps2 has an advantage here. with our current gen of tech, it has the oppertunity to build around a moderen based shooter, and deliver on its own goals wihtout looking/preforming in an outdated fasion. my concerns are that it will copy more then it will innovate. i dont want BF2 ona larger scale, i want somethign new.

[Livefire]

Whats up with all these "no head shot" people? This is an FPS, if this game is going to expand in terms of player base we need to get with the program. If you can't aim well cert support/medic class or just shoot for the chest and let others who enjoy a good FPS (with it's aiming factors) enjoy the challenge/reward of being skilled at what they do.


I totally agree! Listen people this is a 2011 competitive FPS that means high powered expensive machines playing hard core fast action realistic modern combat and if you don't like it or that is not your play style go play wow or some other slow fantasy game. Its becoming more and more clear Planetside 2 is going to be made for the hard core die hard fps players that makes up the the Modern fps market that planetside 2 will need to survive as a MMO.

This game should be all about fast tactical thinking and fantastic skill, first accurate hit wins, if you don't possess this then take comfort in that fact that you can actually play a support class and still contribute to your fellow soldiers in battle. With thousands of players on the battle field with realistic fighting skill will be rewarded and the good players certainly shine as they should. I always hated that PS1 gave not the smart accurate player the kill but the player who danced all over the place spraying with luck and lag making the ultimate decision.

And for the noobs here Head shots mean almost always instant death as they should! and weak spots on vehicles means you hit the top of a tank with av you might be able to kill it in one shot, also right! I only hope they soon say they have an option to turn on high blood effects and with the new game engine physics I can blow bodies apart with awesome rag doll effects let the games BEGIN! GOOD JOB MATT I'M GLAD TO SEE SOE LISTENING TO ITS HARDCORE PLAYER BASE DON'T LISTEN TO THE WHINERS THEY DON'T SPEAK FOR THE PAYING MAJORITY.

[Bags]

Sorry, "hard core" die hard fps players don't play Call of Duty and its knock-offs.I find it funny you think the game should reward accuracy but you think people who ADAD strafe are too hard to hit. Lower TTK actually promotes spray and pray.

Oh and fucking paragraphs; use them.

Edit: oh you were being satirical, well done.

[Livefire]

Sorry, die hard fps players don't play Call of Duty and its knock-offs.

I find it funny you think the game should reward accuracy but you think people who ADAD strafe are too hard to hit.

Oh and fucking paragraphs; use them.

I hope that helps, and by the way call of duty modern warfare and battle field 2 which are the major contributing factors of planetside 2 changes, were among the highest selling fps's in world history as battle field 3 and the new call of duty (expecting to sell 20 million copy's) coming out in November soon will be added to that list.

Read and Learn before you correct:)
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/35776/Analyst_New_Call_of_Duty_Sales_Could_Pass_20M.php

[SKYeXile]

I hope that helps, and by the way call of duty modern warfare and battle field 2 which are the major contributing factors of planetside 2 changes, were among the highest selling fps's in world history as battle field 3 and the new call of duty (expecting to sell 20 million copy's) coming out in November soon will be added to that list.

Read and Learn before you correct:)
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/35776/Analyst_New_Call_of_Duty_Sales_Could_Pass_20M.php

:doh:

GameSpot reported 4.2 million units of Halo 3 were in retail outlets on September 24, 2007, a day before official release—a world record volume.[144][145] Halo 3 broke the previous record for the highest grossing opening day in entertainment history, making US$170 million in its first twenty-four hours.[145][146] Worldwide, sales exceeded US$300 million the first week, helping to more than double the sales of the Xbox 360 when compared with the weekly average before the Halo 3 launch

SCIFI SHOOTERS BE LACKING NOW!

[Livefire]

I find it funny you think the game should reward accuracy but you think people who ADAD strafe are too hard to hit. Lower TTK actually promotes spray and pray.

Wrong!. Head shots and more lethal weapons among other realistic shooting physics encourage kneeling, aiming and shooting like in RL. As well as setting up traps, and getting the drop on your target knowing you are going to get the kill by being able to get the first couple shots into him. This is called tactical skill and is a must in realistic modern shooters. PS1 with its stupid levels of armor and lower powered weapons is a long dead dinosaur of the past get with the times man.

[basti]

I find it funny you think the game should reward accuracy but you think people who ADAD strafe are too hard to hit. Lower TTK actually promotes spray and pray.

Wrong!. Head shots and more lethal weapons among other realistic shooting physics encourage kneeling, aiming and shooting like in RL. As well as setting up traps, and getting the drop on your target knowing you are going to get the kill by being able to get the first couple shots into him. This is called tactical skill and is a must in realistic modern shooters. PS1 with its stupid levels of armor and lower powered weapons is a long dead dinosaur of the past get with the times man.

Are you serious?

[Volw]

realistic modern shooters

The only games that qualify are OFP/Arma/Arma2. Everything else is arcade.

You are also comparing games with 16-32 plaayer limit to a game with 500-1000 player limit.

[Livefire]

:doh:



SCIFI SHOOTERS BE LACKING NOW!

HALO is a good game, I was not saying anything about scifi shooters I was talking about realistic physics and play style's some of which halo has like awesome rail gun sniping. However halo is mainly a consul game and not a pc game as your article so eloquently points out where COD and especially BF2 were more for pc as PS2 will be.

[SKYeXile]

Sorry but hes, right, low damage, higher TTK requires people to have a precise and steady aim, its less rewarding to twitch players who can respond fast with a quick reflexes and a perhaps a headshot in a spray of bullets and more to players who can keep their reticule on their target or predict where they will move.

lol "As well as setting up traps, and getting the drop on your target knowing you are going to get the kill by being able to get the first couple shots into him." yea they have a word for that: camping, and that exactly what a game with lower TTK's will promote.

[Livefire]

The only games that qualify are OFP/Arma/Arma2. Everything else is arcade.

You are also comparing games with 16-32 plaayer limit to a game with 500-1000 player limit.

More players = more kills sound like a good time to me can't wait. Stop being scared of changes guys you sound like old people lol.

[Zulthus]

I find it funny you think the game should reward accuracy but you think people who ADAD strafe are too hard to hit. Lower TTK actually promotes spray and pray.

Wrong!. Head shots and more lethal weapons among other realistic shooting physics encourage kneeling, aiming and shooting like in RL. As well as setting up traps, and getting the drop on your target knowing you are going to get the kill by being able to get the first couple shots into him. This is called tactical skill and is a must in realistic modern shooters. PS1 with its stupid levels of armor and lower powered weapons is a long dead dinosaur of the past get with the times man.

Go back to COD please

[SKYeXile]

HALO is a good game, I was not saying anything about scifi shooters I was talking about realistic physics and play style's some of which halo has like awesome rail gun sniping. However halo is mainly a consul game and not a pc game as your article so eloquently points out where COD and especially BF2 were more for pc as PS2 will be.

right so why attack a market that already has good coverage?

TF2 obviously is another scifi or arena style shooter on PC, its dated now, time for something fresh, why not PS2? scifi shooters on arena are no existent, but as we have seen with tribes unreal and quake, they're popular.

[Livefire]

Sorry but hes, right, low damage, higher TTK requires people to have a precise and steady aim, its less rewarding to twitch players who can respond fast with a quick reflexes and a perhaps a headshot in a spray of bullets and more to players who can keep their reticule on their target or predict where they will move.

lol "As well as setting up traps, and getting the drop on your target knowing you are going to get the kill by being able to get the first couple shots into him." yea they have a word for that: camping, and that exactly what a game with lower TTK's will promote.

Twitch players have amazing skill with light speed time on target tracking skills they also own the fps market me being one of them, get use to it, it isn't going away, "who can respond fast with a quick reflexes and a perhaps a headshot in a spray of bullets" this is the very essence of the current fps market and how it works in RL as well. And what SOE will have to appeal to if they want a successful game:)

[Volw]

More players = more kills sound like a good time to me can't wait. Stop being scared of changes guys you sound like old people lol.

We've used to stack twitch kids like you five feet high on Oshur ... use ya for sand bags.

[Zulthus]

Twitch players have amazing skill with light speed time on target tracking skills they also own the fps market me being one of them, get use to it, it isn't going away, "who can respond fast with a quick reflexes and a perhaps a headshot in a spray of bullets" this is the very essence of the current fps market and how it works in RL as well. And what SOE will have to appeal to if they want a successful game:)

PlanetSide 2 will be a successful game whether we have braggy, "twitchy" players like you or not.

[Captain1nsaneo]

Sky is correct, a higher TTK means that the more skilled player will normally win combat. I'd actually argue that a low TTK slows down game play due to the desire to not die as running and gunning is actively punished by campers.

[SKYeXile]

Twitch players have amazing skill with light speed time on target tracking skills they also own the fps market me being one of them, get use to it, it isn't going away, "who can respond fast with a quick reflexes and a perhaps a headshot in a spray of bullets" this is the very essence of the current fps market and how it works in RL as well. And what SOE will have to appeal to if they want a successful game:)

figures, thank god you can land 2 bullets out of 30 and get a kill. oh and real life shooting is about having a steady hand, because responding quick, while is good, useless if you cant keep the gun steady to land a hit. but RL does not matter, we're talking about a video game here, not a simulator.

[Livefire]

right so why attack a market that already has good coverage?

TF2 obviously is another scifi or arena style shooter on PC, its dated now, time for something fresh, why not PS2? scifi shooters on arena are no existent, but as we have seen with tribes unreal and quake, they're popular.

Popular but not blockbusters and blockbusters are the only way to support new mmo's PS2 needs to be one and SOE is building it on models that they know work and bring the fps vets like my self to them. I played PS1 for 6 years but always took short brakes between the new fps's that came out none where persistent so none kept me around for very long.

The reason why I could not get more hardcore fps players who also would love (persistent world real mmo play scale) to planetside from the BF2/COD/ARMA players to come over with me is because of the cartoonish game play with no one shot kills and totally unrealistic design.

This will all hopefully change as PS2 comes out and the old PS1 players who are used to 10-20 shot kills will learn how hard a real fps can be when any one can pop you in the back of the head and ruin your kill steak. This is going to be a epic fps not for the fainthearted. Its going to be beautiful!

[Zulthus]

Popular but not blockbusters and blockbusters are the only way to support new mmo's PS2 needs to be one and SOE is building it on models that they know work and bring the fps vets like my self to them. I played PS1 for 6 years but always took short brakes between the new fps's that came out none where persistent so none kept me around for very long.

The reason why I could not get more hardcore fps players who also would love (persistent world real mmo play scale) to planetside from the BF2/COD/ARMA players to come over with me is because of the cartoonish game play with no one shot kills and totally unrealistic design.

This will all hopefully change as PS2 comes out and the old PS1 players who are used to 10-20 shot kills will learn how hard a real fps can be when any one can pop you in the back of the head and ruin your kill steak. This is going to be a epic fps not for the fainthearted. Its going to be beautiful!

Sorry to burst your bubble, but PlanetSide isn't supposed to be a realistic game. One shot kills is extremely boring and requires no skill at all to play, which is why PlanetSide was based upon 10-20 shot kills. It was fun and it wasn't instant. Gameplay is not "cartoonish" unless you can provide a specific example as to what you're talking about. "Unrealism" is not an answer. PlanetSide is also a "real" FPS, so that point is moot. This game also caters to the casual players, so it will be for the "fainthearted". If you do not like the fact that PlanetSide is a different game from all of the "one shot kill, epic 'real' FPSes" that are crappy mainstream games, then go back to those games.

[Livefire]

figures, thank god you can land 2 bullets out of 30 and get a kill. oh and real life shooting is about having a steady hand, because responding quick, while is good, useless if you cant keep the gun steady to land a hit. but RL does not matter, we're talking about a video game here, not a simulator.

Simulators have greatly influenced your modern fps games if you haven't noticed, as ccp calls there game eve online (which is another game SOE is being influenced by) a scifi simulator and what I believe to be the ultimate future for shooters.

I love how you see it as less skill to kill some one with 2 bullets instead of 30, I see it as less skill to need to be hit 30 times to die instead of 2 times. Know when you get killed by those 2-3 well placed shots or that one shot to the head from 500 yards away that's ME the current and future of fps you so much hate lol.

[Zulthus]

Simulators have greatly influenced your modern fps games if you haven't noticed, as ccp calls there game eve online (which is another game SOE is being influenced by) a scifi simulator and what I believe to be the ultimate future for shooters.

I love how you see it as less skill to kill some one with 2 bullets instead of 30, I see it as less skill to need to be hit 30 times to die instead of 2 times. Know when you get killed by those 2-3 well placed shots or that one shot to the head from 500 yards away that's ME the current and future of fps you so much hate lol.

Are you a prophet or something? You seem to know everything past, present and future. Your arguments make no sense. It IS less skill to kill someone with 2-3 "well placed" shots than 30, simply because if you fire first, you win. That is not the case in the current game, which is why it's fun and fair. A sci-fi simulator? The ultimate future for shooters?? Wow. :doh::doh::doh:

[Livefire]

Other then not being persistent world and having the MMO theater size battle fields they are not crappy they are top selling highly skilled and advanced shooters. And as far as going back to those games from what I have read I won't have to because planetside2 is coming to my side we will give it a good home.

[SKYeXile]

Yea sorry this argument is done.

how can you even argue that its more skill to land 2 shots out of 30, than 30 consistent shots? i mean sure you can argue it like you're attempting to do, but you fail and lose.

ill end with this:

YouTube - ***x202a;Duty Calls (Call of Duty Parody)***x202c;&rlm;

[Zulthus]

Sorry to disappoint... PS2 won't be anything like mainstream crap. No regenerating health, no one shot kills, no perks... :cool:

[Livefire]

You will see how it requires more skill when I kill you time and time again and you won't be able to get a single shot on my ass.......see you in game:groovy:

But anyways thank you SOE for listening to your most dedicated PS players who have been telling you to do this from the games release. I will do everything in my power to bring players from other games to try out your new baby. And with the current development direction I am confident they will like it but no promises tell you give us a playable version:lol:

P.S got to like that poll so far, 86% for head shots ,good players know whats up!

[SKYeXile]

Sorry to disappoint... PS2 won't be anything like mainstream crap. No regenerating health, no one shot kills, no perks... :cool:

SO REALISTIC!

[Zulthus]

You will see how it requires more skill when I kill you time and time again and you won't be able to get a single shot on my ass.......see you in game:groovy:

But anyways thank you SOE for listening to your most dedicated PS players who have been telling you to do this from the games release. I will do everything in my power to bring players from other games to try out your new baby. And with the current development direction I am confident they will like it but no promises tell you give us a playable version:lol:

P.S got to like that poll so far, 45% percent over 41% the good players know whats up!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y8SSEoYVIkM/TRiGPnhhShI/AAAAAAAAANc/CeKTTjLijSg/S330/forever%2Balone%2Bface.png

[SKYeXile]

You will see how it requires more skill when I kill you time and time again and you won't be able to get a single shot on my ass.......see you in game:groovy:

But anyways thank you SOE for listening to your most dedicated PS players who have been telling you to do this from the games release. I will do everything in my power to bring players from other games to try out your new baby. And with the current development direction I am confident they will like it but no promises tell you give us a playable version:lol:

P.S got to like that poll so far, 45% percent over 41% the good players know whats up!

Lol who the hell are you in planetside? iv never herd of you.

[Zulthus]

Lol who the hell are you in planetside? iv never herd of you.

He doesn't play

[Livefire]

He doesn't play

LOL Livefire has a 5 year merit and RENO2525 has a 6 year merit, you guys are funny.

[Zulthus]

LOL Livefire has a 5 year merit and RENO2525 has a 6 year merit, you guys are funny.

I have never heard of or seen those names in the four years I've been playing this game.

[SKYeXile]

I have never heard of or seen those names in the four years I've been playing this game.

yea, hes a nonfacter, probably has a k/d on BFBC2 of like 1.2.

Oh yea forgot to add: playtime merits = skill. AMIRITE?

[basti]

Someone post the fry picture please. It was never better fitting.

[Khrusky]

I think that actually locational damage is more suited to a game like PlanetSide than deathmatch games.

Locational damage does, as stated before, take away some of the skill from the actual fighting aspect, bar twitch hand-eye co-ordination, but to me that's an improvement. What locational damage does is it makes how you pick your battles more important than your physical reactions in the battle. If you can instantly (or almost instantly) kill someone, then sneaking up and taking your time to prepare your location is rewarded. If they can just turn around after you start shooting at them and fight you with only a minor loss in health then there's not any real advantage over simply running straight at them. I personally think that it is more skilful to work out a route to attack someone that will lead you behind them or where they don't expect you, than it is to be able to track somebody accurately.

Furthermore, if somebody is in a position to instantly kill you, then it should make you re-evaluate your plan of attack. If a sniper takes out one of your squad, I actually like the idea that you'd have to find cover and work out another way around, maybe calling for help from your allies. Likewise if there's a heavily guarded front entrance, you shouldn't expect to be able to use your 'skills' to pull a neo and bust your way in. Even if they're not great shots, they should be rewarded for taking up good positions, and the attacker should be forced to actually think and solve the problem, not just go gung-ho.

This is why PlanetSide is better for locational damage though. In a deathmatch shooter it is nigh-on impossible to know where an enemy is probably going to be, as spawning is randomised. In PlanetSide you will be able to predict where your enemy will be coming from and so how you should approach the situation. Likewise as there are lines of battle the combatants will each have time to work out what to do next, rather than having to be prepared for an attack from any direction. As the maps are very large flanking is also a viable response pretty consistently, and don't forget we have tanks as line-breakers, as well as aircraft and if their statements about vertical gameplay are to be believed there will probably be multiple lines of approach even for a foot soldier.

I know that people resent the homogenisation of first person shooters, but this feature is a good one

[Tool]

So this went from a discussion about locational damage to "lol u don't even play scrub, ur opinion don't matter." Ragging on CoD players for its childish nature then degenerating your argument to the statement above ruins credibility. If the biggest reason that oppose locational damage is simply because you just don't like it, then your side has no weight.

Siting PS1 as an example is fine but people need to see that this isn't PS1.5, it's PS2 with a different take on gameplay.

[basti]

Siting PS1 as an example is fine but people need to see that this isn't PS1.5, it's PS2 with a different take on gameplay.

Thats the problem. What if it isnt even Planetside, but Call of Dutyside 2142? We want to avoid that, nothing else. And we feel that no headshots would be a pretty good step in that direction.

We just fear that the game ends up as just any other generic FPS out there these days. People just focus on kills there and ignore everything else.

[DaddyTickles]

We just fear that the game ends up as just any other generic FPS out there these days. People just focus on kills there and ignore everything else.

You know, I have far more sympathy with your position, but this has always been the case.

The great thing about PS was always its size so that if you were a kill-whore you could camp a tower and pad your K/D, but equally if that didn't crank your pump you could cloak up and take a wraith packed with CE and mine up a choke point, or whatever else you wanted to do - dive bomb galaxies into towers - whatever.

I don't see headshots changing that.

My only real concern is that SOE get a good balance between attracting vast numbers and developing a game with longevity. Here's hoping.

[Uberculosis]

Easy/Quick solution to all of this: Only sniper rifles can score headshots.

[Volw]

The easiest solution is to have headshot multiplier as something tiny - say x1.1 or x1.2

I'm borderline sure PS2 devs won't implement one shot kills with sniper rifles as it would essentially turn PS2 into SniperSide, no matter how difficult it is to score them.

BFBC2 is a perfect example of what happens to teamplay when there are OSK sniper rifles.

[Lunarchild]

Easy/Quick solution to all of this: Only sniper rifles can score headshots.

Disagree. I think locational damage should be for all weapons, however it should be tweaked per weapon. It should be balanced on max-DPS rather than individual bullets though.

[Redshift]

Easy/Quick solution to all of this: Only sniper rifles can score headshots.

Thats the worst of all solutions, OSOK sniper rifles would be nuts.

i'm not opposed to extra damage headshots (although i think you'll regret it when i shove a repeater up your arse before your client even tells you you're hit)
What i am opposed to is BOOM HEADSHOT's which honestly have no place in a game where you could be getting shot at by 300 people at once

[artifice]

Disagree. I think locational damage should be for all weapons, however it should be tweaked per weapon. It should be balanced on max-DPS rather than individual bullets though.

I agree that it should be for all weapons. If I am good at aiming with a pistol, I should be able to more quickly take down a player by aiming for the head.

Thats the worst of all solutions, OSOK sniper rifles would be nuts.

i'm not opposed to extra damage headshots (although i think you'll regret it when i shove a repeater up your arse before your client even tells you you're hit)
What i am opposed to is BOOM HEADSHOT's which honestly have no place in a game where you could be getting shot at by 300 people at once

I don't see why it would be nuts.

[Rbstr]

What i am opposed to is BOOM HEADSHOT's which honestly have no place in a game where you could be getting shot at by 300 people at once

I also think one shot kills are dumb (from small arms fire).

However, the 300 or 100 or 25 against 1 argument is nonsense. It means absolutely nothing to the headshot argument.

Even if 300people do one hp of damage a piece you're likely to be dead. Even the crappiest PS1 guns would kill you in an instant in the hands of 25 people at a time. It is a non-factor.

[basti]

Easy/Quick solution to all of this: Only sniper rifles can score headshots.


I like this, jsut dont make them not One shot one kill on a full healthy and armored rexo. Maybe link them in the skill tree to do a bit more damage if you train the skill higher. And on the very top rank, you ALMOST kill a guy with a headshot.

That would make sniping much more enjoyable for those who really put alot of time into it, while removing the trigger happy BOOM HEADSHOT crowd that just runs up close to you to kill you.

[2coolforu]

I think the 300 person example is not to do with them all shooting you, instead it is about the crossfire that results from such large battles. With so many people on the field people are obviously going to fire some random shots in your general direction just to surpress you, the problem is if TTK times are low and headshots kill in 1-2 shots then the crossfire can be devastating, with 300 peoples bullets flying all over the place it could be crippling to the games speed, pacing and to offensive and aggressive players if only 1 or 2 bullets can take your health way down.

The way I think about it is when I'm playing CoD 4 and I get headshotted and I have no idea how, I was doing everything right and noone had a direct bead on me, I watch the killcam and it's some guy spraying at window with an LMG hoping to get a kill. Or someone firing a grenade launcher at some random patch of sky happens to hit me, this only gets worse when you have 300 people doing it rather than 32 in a CoD 4 deathmatch map.

[Tool]

I think the 300 person example is not to do with them all shooting you, instead it is about the crossfire that results from such large battles. With so many people on the field people are obviously going to fire some random shots in your general direction just to surpress you, the problem is if TTK times are low and headshots kill in 1-2 shots then the crossfire can be devastating, with 300 peoples bullets flying all over the place it could be crippling to the games speed, pacing and to offensive and aggressive players if only 1 or 2 bullets can take your health way down.

The way I think about it is when I'm playing CoD 4 and I get headshotted and I have no idea how, I was doing everything right and noone had a direct bead on me, I watch the killcam and it's some guy spraying at window with an LMG hoping to get a kill. Or someone firing a grenade launcher at some random patch of sky happens to hit me, this only gets worse when you have 300 people doing it rather than 32 in a CoD 4 deathmatch map.

We wont be playing on those tiny CoD maps though and we don't even know what the damage model is going to so your getting worked up over what isn't fully known.

[2coolforu]

We wont be playing on those tiny CoD maps though and we don't even know what the damage model is going to so your getting worked up over what isn't fully known.

I'm not getting worked up I'm merely offering examples to provide a back up for other peoples points; Devils Advocate.

As for map sizes a Facility is about the same size as a large CoD map, a SOI is not terribly larger

[Tool]

I'm not getting worked up I'm merely offering examples to provide a back up for other peoples points; Devils Advocate.

As for map sizes a Facility is about the same size as a large CoD map, a SOI is not terribly larger

I understand what your trying to do then again you cite PS1 as though that's how things are in PS2, ie base sizes. We know little, expectations here have little foundation.

[Shogun]

did nobody ask, if we will still be getting our weapons and vehicles from terminals? i loved the old cert and terminal system.i hope we dont have to grind resources to craft or buy our stuff.

[Tool]

did nobody ask, if we will still be getting our weapons and vehicles from terminals? i loved the old cert and terminal system.i hope we dont have to grind resources to craft or buy our stuff.

I think I heard a snippet in one the recent videos about changing classes at terminals.

[basti]

The real question is: do we spawn with our weapons and armor already on, or do we still have to grab stuff at a terminal? Spawning with stuff would make attacking spawn tubes pretty much impossible, unless there is a new mechanic.

[Redshift]

I don't see why it would be nuts.

Because i currently use a sniper rifle at <20 meters down corridors, headshots will be easy as pie from that range and thus will be insanely annoying

I also think one shot kills are dumb (from small arms fire).

However, the 300 or 100 or 25 against 1 argument is nonsense. It means absolutely nothing to the headshot argument.

Even if 300people do one hp of damage a piece you're likely to be dead. Even the crappiest PS1 guns would kill you in an instant in the hands of 25 people at a time. It is a non-factor.

Yes i was talking about random crossfire, ofc i wasn't meaning if 300 people shoot directly at you at once....
300 people shooting across a field randomly and you will take rounds, some of those will hit you in the face, hence OSOK would be horrible

[basti]

It depens how fast the TTKs really are going to be. Planetsides TTK was indeed slow, slow enough to start shooting with a pulsar in the back of an enemy, hitting several rounds, see him turn around and start fiering as well, to take you down to half health before he died. That was somewhat annoying at times, you had AGES of time to figure out whats going on.
COD TTK is way to fast. You would be easily running down a hallway and kill 5 guys before they could even react. Adding headshots to that just makes it even worse.

the middle between those two may be good. HA TTK for MA guns, something like that. And headshots only if you are sniper and trained for it, and just alot of damage but no OSOK.

[Volw]

The real question is: do we spawn with our weapons and armor already on, or do we still have to grab stuff at a terminal? Spawning with stuff would make attacking spawn tubes pretty much impossible, unless there is a new mechanic.

Good question - I guess yes. After all, it will be possible to spawn on commander or in the galaxy...

[Shogun]

maybe the commander gets a terminal on his backpack ;-)

[basti]

Just a shot in the blue: Im guessing when you spawn on your squad (drop pot) you have equipment, as you actually came from somewhere. If you spawn in a galaxy, you also have equipment. If you spawn at a tower, ams or base, you dont have equipment, and have to use a terminal.
Would like it that way. As said, otherwise taking down heavy used spawn tubes would be pretty impossible. If you ever attacked a full zerg spawing in one spawn room, you know what im talking about. ;)

[Bags]

How would the NC pad their kill counts if you spawned with gear on?

[opticalshadow]

i really dont like the squad spawning, assueming it works like BF BC (since they cited that as a influence)

i mean assumeing we have all the same vehicles.

infil on wraith or phanty, flies rides behind enemy lines, assumeing you cant spawn in an SOI, just behind it. they would be far enough away that DV wouldnt see them, one phnaty gives 6 people, which gives one phanty the potential to spawn in 6 squads of soldiers, with no real way to detect them coming.

[Bags]

i really dont like the squad spawning, assueming it works like BF BC (since they cited that as a influence)
.

I don't recall drop pods in BFBC

[Tool]

Drawing conclusions from a little know gameplay mechanic. What is known is like Bags said, which is Drop Pods then Galaxy Spawing and Squad Spawing that requres respective certs/skills. Anything beyond that isn't known yet, so chillax.

[blbeta]

I really hope AMS is still in. Was such a tactical and useful vehicle in game. Although with Galaxy and Squad Spawning it's role could be severely diminished.

I am excited and worried for PS2. I like a lot of what I am hearing, but you never really know until you play. Just have to see how it feels when it all comes together and is put to the test.

There is no other game like PlanetSide IMO. I hope PS2 really comes through.

[opticalshadow]

I don't recall drop pods in BFBC

no they dont have drop pods, they just spawn next to each other, but even with drop pods the idea that (assuming squads are still of 10) 60 people can just drop (per phanty) from out of nowhere seems to be contridictory to getting rid of the hart shutttle in the first place.

[Tool]

no they dont have drop pods, they just spawn next to each other, but even with drop pods the idea that (assuming squads are still of 10) 60 people can just drop (per phanty) from out of nowhere seems to be contridictory to getting rid of the hart shutttle in the first place.

Are Phantasms in PS2? Are they still multiple passenger aircraft? Do they share the same flight model as depicted in PS2 as other aircraft?

Until you can answer these questions, your essentially barking up not the wrong tree but no tree at all. Not liking the idea of squad spawning is fine, assuming how it is or going to work in PS2 is just an assumption with very little basis.

[Hamma]

I am pretty sure the AMS is still in, not sure on the Phantasm

[Baneblade]

I just want my Vanguard to be able to ford water.