Now that we KNOW headshots are planed.

[Forsaken One]

This thread is only for discussion on what we want to see assuming headshots are going to be forced on us no matter if we don't want them.

I seriously want the game to ether have CoD:MW1 TTK or the hardcore version of that TTK.

Why?

Because if headshots are going to matter at all I'd rather people die in a max of 3 bullets.
I DO NOT want the game to devolve into monkeys cycle strafing/jerking with the enemy trying to get a headshot first/the most headshots to win any firefights, even 1v1

Even if headshots are not OHOK the fact is it will turn into monkey shit because whoever hits the most headshots kills. meaning you will HAVE to try to go for headshots. making people forced to monkey style headshoting or just uninstall.

[Logit]

For all those against headshots, I'm organizing a huddle cry, because I too suck at aiming.

[2coolforu]

Why all the doom and gloom, headshots could just give a small damage bonus, say 25% or so - that sounds reasonable. We can't have a game like Planetside where you die in 2-3 shots like Call of Duty because there are so many people it'd just be a giant Cluster Frak.

[Gandhi]

For all those against headshots, I'm organizing a huddle cry, because I too suck at aiming.
I'll be sticking to vehicles. Don't need to worry about headshots when you're hurling tank shells :D

[Logit]

Why all the doom and gloom, headshots could just give a small damage bonus, say 25% or so - that sounds reasonable. We can't have a game like Planetside where you die in 2-3 shots like Call of Duty because there are so many people it'd just be a giant Cluster Frak.

Were talking about a company that thought BFRs were a good idea.

Just sayin..

[Forsaken One]

headshots could just give a small damage bonus, say 25% or so -

aimming for the head will be forced then.

it'd just be a giant Cluster Frak.

I'll happly take a cluster frak then the whole game becoming about running around with your crosshairs at head level.

[Dreamcast]

Why not cry about people having better aim that you then?...Not fair if somebody just aims at my body and hits me 90% of the time when I cant do that.


Hit boxes make more sense and add more depth.


If somebody has great aim and hits you in the head 6 times with a pistol, and you hit him 30% of the times with jh on his body...You deserve to die IMO.

[2coolforu]

aimming for the head will be forced then.



I'll happly take a cluster frak then the whole game becoming about running around with your crosshairs at head level.

True you will have an advantage if you aim for the head, but it's such a small and hard target that most people won't. If it's still say 10 shots to kill an agile from an AR then that means its about 7 or 8 which you won't be able to land. If you aim for the head and miss you totally miss, if you aim for the centre of mass and miss you may hit the chest or leg or arms, your recoil might even walk you up to a headshot.

As long as the TTK time is pretty high headshots are relatively void unless you are supremely good.

[Forsaken One]

Random Monkey retard language Humans have evolved too far ahead to understand anymore.

I'm sorry. do you want a banana? I don't speak Monkey. I'm a human. with intelligence over dexterity. The way Humans were meant to be.

[Rbstr]

Trollololol

Those that do not wish for location damage can no longer whine about the skill-system removing player skill from the equation.

Not having finer aiming amounts to exactly that.

[Volw]

As long as the TTK time is pretty high headshots are relatively void unless you are supremely good.

See, the problem is if you end up fighting against a few blokes that are supremely good. Switching servers is not really an option ... unsub + uninstall is.

[DviddLeff]

I'll happly take a cluster frak then the whole game becoming about running around with your crosshairs at head level.

Good job the ground isn't all flat then isn't it?

As it is you could argue that you run around aiming at belly button level, as that's the mid point of the hit box...

[Forsaken One]

blah

Its still an advantage do to stupidity put into the gaming code instead of player Intelligence and Teamwork.

[Sirisian]

For all those against headshots, I'm organizing a huddle cry, because I too suck at aiming.
These are the people I feel bad for. As much fun as I like having a huge k/d I have enough empathy to realize that this is going to get insane. (Not that I won't enjoy it. :lol: )

I hope we can upgrade our skill trees on armor to include a helmet that protects against headshots. Not that I want to waste time on something like that, but it sounds like it's going to be extremely useful when playing against my friend Beachball who from what I can tell is already aiming at people's heads when he plays. :lol:

[Rarntogo]

Yeah... I too suck at aiming in comparison to the teen who has fast reflexes and doesnt ever come out of the house because he games 24/7. I have no problem with headshots doing more damage. They should. But the question is how much more. At the risk of sounding like a whiner, the biggest reason I like PS is because it takes more than good aim to play well. If fits ME, as selfish as that is. Hitboxes, headshots etc.. are needed in an FPS. No question. For me, personally, I wont play very long if I spend more time re-spawning than playing the game. I dont have the reflexes for twitch aiming against teenagers anymore. it's just a fact. and getting owned and told I suck by said teenagers is gonna ruin my fun and why play if I'm not having fun... and be paying for it no less...

[Oty]

... :)

[Rarntogo]

I mean no offense to anyone when I say this. Many of you have said headshots make the game more realistic. IMO *game* and *realistic* do not have to be used together and in truth, seldom does the game have realism. If I want realism I'll pack up my M4, put my .44 mag Desert Eagle on my hip and move to Afghanistan. Does that sound like fun to you? Me neither...

[Death2All]

STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE

Seriously, I never thought head shots had a place in a game where HUNDREDS of people will be fighting each other at a time with bullets flying every which way. It would make going through a choke point even more difficult with the ability to get instagibbed, amplified by the fact that theres a squad of people shooting at you and it would be frustrating as all hell.

And don't you dare say that "it would be more realisitic" or I'll smack the shit out of you. We're a bunch of immortal space soldiers from the future. :mad:

[Bags]

Yes, the only reason to hate headshots is "Because we suck at aiming"

strawman harder.

[Gwartham]

Funny thing is I remember years ago people complaining about CoF, and asking for hitboxes.

Now that we aren't part of the teen game monkey generation, we don't want hitboxes heh.

Take yer gerital!

[Rbstr]

When 100people shoot you you should die, regardless of headshots. When two or three people are shooting one person at once they should die, regardless of headshots.

The significant impact here comes in small numbers engagements and when you catch the enemy unaware. In one situation people with better aim win, in the other the dude that sneaks up and can't possibly miss wins. Both of which are things that should happen.

[Sifer2]

The worst thing about it is that it will make many weapons useless. Only good headshot capable weapons will be used. People will figure this out in 3 hours. What gun is best for headshots. God help us if its a faction exclusive one.

Oh an I don't even want to know how many subs they lose once the first aimbot is released.

[Dragoneye]

I'm... Actually really happy with everything they've said regarding T.T.K's and headshots.

Planetside TTK with your average Special Weapon is already ranging in at around 2-5 seconds, armor depending. They've confirmed it will be noticeably faster. And... Headshots.

So, that ballparks it in a happy place for me.

Also: I really have to disagree about headshots invalidating certain weapons. There are PLENTY of games that involve headshots that have managed to balance them for it.

(TF2 UT3, Every freaking single Battlefield and CoD game?)

A headshot makes a rocket to the torso blow you up no less thoroughly. Plus, from what they've said about class mechanics, they are really erring on the TF2 side of things as far as design philosophy goes. (Some roles are less twitch reliant than others). So I expect that those roles will have specialities in weapons and devices that don't rely on headshots for kills.

[basti]

Oh an I don't even want to know how many subs they lose once the first aimbot is released.


Not a single one. Aimbots will pop up during beta. cheaters use them for some time, they get banned and the way the aimbot worked fixed, and bang another one pops up.
Will be like that forever. And every time you get killed by headshots several times in a row, you think those guys are cheating. SOoner or later, you drop out of the game and never return.

How long didnt i play COD or CSS? Right, no CSS for years, no COD for month. Just because of the cheating.

[Death2All]

When 100people shoot you you should die, regardless of headshots. When two or three people are shooting one person at once they should die, regardless of headshots.

The significant impact here comes in small numbers engagements and when you catch the enemy unaware. In one situation people with better aim win, in the other the dude that sneaks up and can't possibly miss wins. Both of which are things that should happen.

I don't think anyone is arguing that you shouldn't die when 100 people are shooting at you. That's a given.

It's the increased lethality, scale of the game, and luck factor that are the issue. Huge 100v100v100 fights with the prevalence of getting shot in the head ONCE and dieing would be very infuriating.

[Dragoneye]

As an added note... The Planetside Reticule system has always been very unforgiving. I don't think people appreciate how much deliberate balance goes into making CS:S the way it is, vs. TF2 the way it is, despite the fact that BOTH games have headshots.

The implementation of headshots depends massively on how accurate weapons are as a whole, and under what circumstances it makes sense for a competitive player to GO for a headshot.

The notion that Headshots = CS:S is silly.

[Redshift]

i think the real problem with head shot (apart from that fact that they'll randomly be smacking into you as 660 people spray and pray :P) is that it'll make cloak kills rediculously easy, its already easy to unload a repeater into someone before they notice, imagine that killing in 2-3 shots, you'd not even notice until you were dead, not that i care too much being a cloaker half the time but hey ^^

[Tikuto]

I am not happy about this at all.

Whether or not I'm a good at aiming, not everyone is. Everyone's different and people should respect that. I know I do well or used to. I've aged now and so maybe my aiming hand-eye co-ordination has worsened.

Don't give people all this "aim properly" bs.



Regardless, I don't like simple powerful headshots in my PlanetSide experience. Since this may be happening, well, I'll propose this alternative:

Lethal and Non-Lethal hitboxes Essentially all your character's hitboxes deals same damage value in-take.
Lethal hitboxes would kill the character at 0 health points.
Non-Lethal hitboxes would incapacitate the character at 0 health points.
Final blow decides either Non-Lethal or Lethal.

How it works?
The final blow decides the player's fate. All damage taken will lead to either a successful 'lethal' take-down or an unsuccessful 'non-lethal' take-down. Headshot would obviously be a 'lethal' hitbox.

Incapacitated players are very limited on what they can do. Probably nothing. They may as well be dead or continue waiting for a Medic.
Deceased players are ... dead. Oh well. Lulz!

[Sco]

Those against headshots should take the "enhanced helmet tree"!!

[Dragoneye]

Ah yes, but the real fear/issue with that is that in Planetside that typically means, 25 second death-timer, + Running back in from AMS/Tower/Spawn room etc.

Squad spawning works well with faster T.T.K.s because combat ends up being a lot more "bloody" and chaotic. It also has a side-effect of making battles feel larger than they actually -ARE-, because you're probably not noticing that 3 of the 5 soldiers you just shot dead in a 45 second span were the same person.

[Coyote]

I am quite dissapoint with headshot implimentations.

But if it is to be, then we must also look at the time it takes to get somewhere. Nothing says suck like walking, driving, flying, walking and walking for 15 minutes to turn a corner and instantly die. This can happen in planetside as is, not debating that, but when every gun is going to be faster over the old TTK this makes me worried that I will be spending 5 minutes actually shooting and 35 minutes walking around trying to get to a location to actually shoot somebody. I wonder how AMSs, SL spawn, Towers, and things are going to change, hopefully to reflect the TTK decrease.

Throwing this out there. Faster TTK plus insta-respawns close to the battlefield generally degrades any need for teamwork, any need for coordination, and any need to give a rats ass about objectives. I worry that people may shift from an objective based mentality to a Team death match mentality.

If a TDM mentality becomes the majority, this game will have no future. Battlefield 3, Modern warfare 3, Halo 4, Team Fortress 2, Global Agenda, ARMA 3.... Gears of War 3, the next Tribes game...These games are coming down the pipe. Most will be released before PS2, some after. They all pull from the same community pool. A community can only be split so many different ways. This is why you find 'niche' communities (like ARMA, EVE) and cater to them. Nobody has successfully changed from Niche to Mainstream. Ever. PS is, to be blunt, a Niche game. If it was mainstream we would have many ripoffs. Which we do not. Therefore, we are a Niche game.

Quick TTK + fast respawns already have saturated the multiplayer gamespace long enough that nobody will give a hoot or consider this 'original' if they play a planetside that follows the TDM mentality. We can't pull from any communities by being similar. And when you give me Classes, no inventory space, headshots, squad leader spawns, lack of sanctuaries (to coordinate/R&R), and no real sense of achievement from winning (as no continent can be locked).... I don't see a future for this game in 2014.

It'll be popular in 2012, 2013. But by 2013 MW4, halo 5, Battlefield 4, Dust 514, a probable sequel to MAG, and possibly newly released Consoles... Planetside will have a very hard time pushing itself into the front door.

I just don't think Planetside is a game that can be mainstream. Please, SOE. Prove me wrong.

[Dragoneye]

Again, I have to say that I think that some of the old PS crowd is really jumping the gun here. :| Headshots themselves are such a granular (LolSmedley) mechanic, that saying you don't want them at all is overly harsh.

Did you know that BFBC2 actually uses a per-weapon balancing system? It's also not the only one. In Shooters, the weapons are VERY carefully controlled for how many bullets it takes to down someone. Not just in headshots/bodyshots- but in Arm shots, leg shots, and any probable combination of those things. In BFBC2 there are a lot of very subtle under-the-hood numbers, for example, that make sure you can NEVER use a sniper rifle to get a 1-shot body kill, but still to give people a reason at all to choose to use a damage-boosting effect on a sniper rifle.

Locational damage does this. Headshots do this.

Adding a headshot mechanic is, at heart, just an additional tool to give a team to help balance weapons to feel more diverse.

Everyone here seems to think that implementing headshots would be as simple as: Bulletdamage = A, Headshot Damage = A x 1.5. It's not. It hasn't been since CS 1.

Some weapons might see A being much lower, with a higher damage multiplier for headshots. Others might offer much more base damage, but have almost no bonus for a headshot. (See: Shotguns in BFBC2.)

Done correctly, this type of FPS balance actually leads to MORE variety in weapons, not less. And games like TF2 have proven conclusively that it is possible to design a space where Headshot farmers and the dextrously inept can game together in balance and harmony.

Tl;Dr: Headshots are a low-level Mechanic. Don't hate on it, because it's a way to add more variety to the game. Instead, demand an implementation where the headshot based weapons do not overshadow less aiming-reliant weapons.

[Death2All]

Lethal and Non-Lethal hitboxes Essentially all your character's hitboxes deals same damage value in-take.
Lethal hitboxes would kill the character at 0 health points.
Non-Lethal hitboxes would incapacitate the character at 0 health points.
Final blow decides either Non-Lethal or Lethal.

How it works?
The final blow decides the player's fate. All damage taken will lead to either a successful 'lethal' take-down or an unsuccessful 'non-lethal' take-down. Headshot would obviously be a 'lethal' hitbox.

Incapacitated players are very limited on what they can do. Probably nothing. They may as well be dead or continue waiting for a Medic.
Deceased players are ... dead. Oh well. Lulz!

Sounds like it's a Battlefield mechanic. I understand it's purpose but I don't like it for whatever reason. I would just like to totally see the headshot mechanic not even be present in PS2 period.

[Marth Koopa]

I'll be sticking to vehicles. Don't need to worry about headshots when you're hurling tank shells :D

Tank butt shots are in, which is headshots for tanks, but much easier to perform cause tanks are slow at turning :groovy:

[SKYeXile]

Tank butt shots are in, which is headshots for tanks, but much easier to perform cause tanks are slow at turning :groovy:

The top is also typically weaker, DEATH FROM ABOVE!

[Haro]

I'd just like to point out, because it seems that no one has explicitly stated this, that headshots do not exactly mean a quick TTK. They may not be instant kills. Call of Duty and shooters of that genre may dominate the fps field, but they are far from the only ones there. Halo, for example, has a damage modifier on headshots. For some weapons, like sniper rifles, this is an instant kill, not something I would like in planetside. But for other weapons, like a rifle, it means that kills that took 12-13 shots may now take 6-7. It still takes a while, and it takes consistency and skill. I don't think instant headshot kills are a good idea, because you could hypothetically get hit by a stray bullet and just die, or (more realistically) someone could just be aiming for your chest and a bullet creeps up and kills you.

But none of that really makes sense in Planetside. It seems we won't be having any natural health regen, or at least nothing like a CoD or GoW, which means that ttk is likely to be kept at a little bit longer. It would be stupid to have a long ttk, except for headshots, because of a lot of the reasons people give.

In summary, I would make a completely unfounded guess that PS2 will have a headshot system similar to halo, where headshots increase damage but are not necessarily an instant kill. Does this favor players with better reactions or more play time? Absolutely. Thats how games work. But there are many other ways that you can shift combat balance, from mines to invisibility to shotguns to tanks.

Headshots are a staple of shooters. There's never been a game where headshots alone have broken it, and lack of headshots does not define PS1. It's a real no brainer in terms of changes to the game after 8 years, and odds are you probably won't even notice it.

[Aractain]

What if head shots did only a little bit more damage and made the user have blurred vision (like the new supression in BF3)?

But like Dragoneye says each weapon should have its only multiplication values for each location.

I don't think Higby is stupid. He wont do instant kills.

[Forsaken One]

I would happily uninstall the game and throw it out the nearest window if it was anything like Halo. While I admit the SP story was fun the Multi player was trash and I didn't even bother with it more then 3 times and uninstalled the game after I finished SP.

If headshots exist the game should be that you die fast no matter what. Rainbow six, S.W.A.T. 4. or even CoD MW1 hardcore style.

[Rbstr]

Are you capable of making a rational argument, or do you just start punching people if you get the wrong change?

[Forsaken One]

Are you capable of making a rational argument?
They have been made many times.
The problem is a Human trying to explain to a Monkey that throwing its shit no matter how well it can aim isn't a good thing. Because the Monkey will think that throwing its shit is a good thing no matter how much the Human tries to explain otherwise with "rational arguments".

[Death2All]

Are you capable of making a rational argument, or do you just start punching people if you get the wrong change?

Violence is always the answer :twisted:

[2coolforu]

Eww, CoD.

I'm sure Higby will clear this up for us at some point. They have an entire team dedicated to balancing so I'm sure it will all be fine tuned, it's not like Call of Duty were they just throw the guns into a random number generator then do a half assed alpha test while drunk then box it up and ship. I actually trust SOE and the PS team to do some proper testing, plus we have a full Beta test with the Pside community getting preference over randomers so I doubt there will be any severe issues. I mean Planetside is very different to what it was in beta, physics glitches, 75mm galaxies, no lattice, constant backhacking. But that was all sorted and we got one of the best games of all time :)

Now we have the same team with a lot more support and modern technology to make it all super awesome, plus we have learned from the mistakes of Planetside 1. I'm feeling confident.

[Gwartham]

I always wondered what kept you people playing Pside when everyone else has bailed on it.

You all cant apparently aim for shit :)

[Aractain]

Whats an aim?

[Gwartham]

Eww, CoD.

I'm sure Higby will clear this up for us at some point. They have an entire team dedicated to balancing so I'm sure it will all be fine tuned, it's not like Call of Duty were they just throw the guns into a random number generator then do a half assed alpha test while drunk then box it up and ship. I actually trust SOE and the PS team to do some proper testing, plus we have a full Beta test with the Pside community getting preference over randomers so I doubt there will be any severe issues. I mean Planetside is very different to what it was in beta, physics glitches, 75mm galaxies, no lattice, constant backhacking. But that was all sorted and we got one of the best games of all time :)

Now we have the same team with a lot more support and modern technology to make it all super awesome, plus we have learned from the mistakes of Planetside 1. I'm feeling confident.

Exactly.

Everyone freakin out on what minimal info we have on the game.

We still got a long time to go here I am sure, but lets stop freakin out before we know what they are even talking about.

[Bags]

To those of you claiming we don't like headshots because we can't aim...

Strawman harder. Please.

[Gwartham]

To those of you claiming we don't like headshots because we can't aim...

Strawman harder. Please.

Was a joke, made to deal with soo much crying.

Seriously haven't seen soo many tears since one of the my lil ponies broke their leg...

[Hamma]

Seems we have more than enough threads about this.