Now that OSOK are confirmed, Should Sniper Work/Sacrifice for it?

[Dreamcast]

I love that OSOK is in the game but im not so sure that snipers should be available to OSOK since the Get-Go.

I mean their is bullet drop and perhaps scope sway so it will require some skill but I think making Snipers Sacrifice for it, will make it better.



Firstly, Headshots should be the Last step of a skill tree, so a dedicated sniper will have to work for it.


Once the person does unlock Headshots, he should sacrifice......Accuracy(sway when scoping),Recoil,bullets per clip(2-3),reload time,Armor(Makes yourself weak to headshots, meaning any sniper can kill you and of course weaker to any kind of bullets).

This will make the headshots hard to do, make every bullet count, and on top of it all you can be headshot by any sniper.

So a sniper specializing in accuracy could kill you pretty fast.

So the people who want to be able to headshot infantry,snipers,etc will need to be very stealthy.

Update
Hmm turns out I might be right with the snipers.....Since I believing snipers are Cloaks...and in Planetside cloaks died with 1 sniper shot....Any sniper can kill a sniper so that means Sniper specialized in OSOK of regular troops will get killed by a regular sniper in one on one.

OSOK Sniping is gonna be hard is PS2.

[Dreamcast]

I forgot to add to the poll if they miss a headshot and hit a soldier in the body, then that shot should do less damage compared to a regular sniper shot.

My bad.

[Grimster]

I voted for the armor that they are a easier target and also to increase their reloading times.

[Malorn]

I don't see the concern with 60% of battles combat occuring indoors, and with most of the non-indoor combat being in vehicles. Must be a lot of people who like footzerging out of an AMS. If you're doing that you have a lot more to worry about than a sniper...like tanks and bombers.

[Dreamcast]

I don't see the concern with 60% of battles combat occuring indoors, and with most of the non-indoor combat being in vehicles. Must be a lot of people who like footzerging out of an AMS. If you're doing that you have a lot more to worry about than a sniper...like tanks and bombers.

Actually I hope some sort of special sniper bullet that does decent damage to vechiles/planes or/and some artillery/missile locker will be available for the sniper to lock in so other allies can launch against the vechiles/Planes.

That would be pretty cool.


Also the indoors might be huge....who knows, I just want OSOK snipers to sacrifice a bit, it will make it better and more balance IMO

[Vancha]

Exact balance for this is not final, but that's the general idea that we're going with and we'll tweak as necessary.
Confirmed? Not quite.

Sniper OSOK will not remain in the game. I can probably name some of the snipers who'll cause SOE to remove it.

[Dreamcast]

Confirmed? Not quite.

Sniper OSOK will not remain in the game. I can probably name some of the snipers who'll cause SOE to remove it.

Well it sounds to me, that is mostly likely going to make it into beta.

From there people will test it out, I just want SOE to know that people want atleast some sacrifices for it...Hopefully that will make into beta aswell.

[CutterJohn]

Accuracy
Recoil
Ammo per Clip
reload times

A sniper sacrificing accuracy? That rather goes against the spirit of the class. The rest aren't 'sacrifices', they are the common attributes of sniper rifles in video games to balance them.


I really don't see why they'd need to sacrifice beyond the general measures on the gun in the first place. Though I do hope MA ranges are long enough to be a threat to snipers. Not to punish them, just to keep away from the silly situation where infantry could really only fight snipers with other snipers. In PS they outranged MA by 100 yards, and even if they were 200m away, it'd take 30 hits to kill them because of DD and armor absorption.

In the spirit of the post though, I could see them popping light armors with the base rifle, and speccing into a a heavier hitting ammo that has a rather worse recoil.

[Traak]

No one said One Shot One Kill was confirmed. It was said that hitboxes exist, and that headshots exist.

This does not directly state that there are OSOK headshots.

Oh, but if OSOK does exist, then snipers can be dispatched, due to their special, weak Sniper Armor, since they are so far from the action, by one stab of a cloaker's blade. In the head.

That would be balanced.

[Volw]

it'd take 30 hits to kill them because of DD and armor absorption.

This time around I think they will/should be limited to light armors only.

Quite a balancing factor as well. They can OSOK, but can be killed as easily.

[CutterJohn]

No one said One Shot One Kill was confirmed. It was said that hitboxes exist, and that headshots exist.

This does not directly state that there are OSOK headshots.

It implies it pretty heavy. Does no good if you do 99 of 100 damage in 1 hit. May as well just keep it at 51% or something then.


I did have an interesting thought though. Peoples arguments against osok are that you can't do anything about it. Its just bam, instant death. Ok. What if the osok headshot ammo was a plasma burn. Giving you like 5 seconds to pop a medkit or get a medic to heal you to stave off death.


This time around I think they will/should be limited to light armors only.

Quite a balancing factor as well. They can OSOK, but can be killed as easily.

Oh, well if its light armor its only 20 shots to kill them. Much better! :D

Nah, that armor absorption was the issue. Shoulda been a % reduction instead of a integer value reduction. That would have made MA far more capable at those ranges, since you wouldn't have to burn through ALL of the armor before hitting health.

[Vancha]

It implies it pretty heavy. Does no good if you do 99 of 100 damage in 1 hit. May as well just keep it at 51% or something then.

Why? Snipers in PS were often the scavengers of combat, picking off weakened targets. 99 of 100 damage would lead to far more kills than 51% of health.

[Malorn]

Actually I hope some sort of special sniper bullet that does decent damage to vechiles/planes or/and some artillery/missile locker will be available for the sniper to lock in so other allies can launch against the vechiles/Planes.

Its called the Anti-Vehicular cert.

[Volw]

Its called the Anti-Vehicular cert.

I think it's safe to assume once 'snipers' got their OSOK now threads requesting OSOK vehicles and OSOK people through walls will start to appear.

[ShowNoMercy]

If people start quick scoping HS's i would expect them to remove it.

[Senyu]

How about just deal with the fact a sniper if he lands the shot will blow your head into pieces? As long as that sniper has slow reload, limited movement, and cant noscope shoot you in the face as he storms the front lines it should be fine.



Long as it has the above disadvantages and its hard to use i see no problem with headshots.

[SwiftRanger]

Headshot damage should be high but not fatal imo. If SOE would still opt for the "one shot, one kill"-principle then the sniper should get all the disadvantages we can imagine. Sorry, but the footzerg battles are too much fun to let them be ruined by anyone with a sniper rifle. Sniping as it is in most shooters already doesn't take much skill.

Also, XP should be granted based on the damage done, not on a kill you could or could not get.

[Volw]

Also, XP should be granted based on the damage done, not on a kill you could or could not get.

This is confirmed to be in PS2.

[SwiftRanger]

This is confirmed to be in PS2.
Awesome, that's certainly gonna help snipers.:)

[Goku]

I don't see the concern with 60% of battles combat occuring indoors, and with most of the non-indoor combat being in vehicles. Must be a lot of people who like footzerging out of an AMS. If you're doing that you have a lot more to worry about than a sniper...like tanks and bombers.

60% is only a figure. That figure could sway each day depending on anything in the game.

[BlazingSun]

I have said it in the other thread already: I'm fine with OSOK headshots by Sniperrifles BUT ONLY AT A CLOSER RANGE.

If your target is at full health/armour and is wearing an Agile Exo-Suit a headshot is deadly at up to 30m.
If your target is at full health/armour and is wearing a Reinforced Exo-Suit a headshot is deadly at up to 10m.

Above these ranges a headshot would still do high damage but would not be instant death anymore unless the target would be damaged. To make that work, the sniperrifles of PS2 would have to be effected by damage degradtion over range like the other weapos.

PS: MAX units should also take higher damage from headshots by sniperrifles!

[Masahiko]

OSOK should be the very top specialization of the sniper. This allows it to be balanced around the idea that this is what the person wants to do above all else.

This would be the kind of sacrifice i would expect them to make to keep snipers in check so to speak.

[basti]

Snipers should indeel feel raped to gain the ability of OSOK. It should be something that you really just want if you are that goddamn good. Something for the best of the best, not the hordes of kids playing COD these days.

[Ravanos]

OSOK should be the very top specialization of the sniper. This allows it to be balanced around the idea that this is what the person wants to do above all else.

This would be the kind of sacrifice i would expect them to make to keep snipers in check so to speak.

maybe they should do OSOK with an implant, similar to mass effects "assassination" ability, high up in the specialization tree like you said.

heres how it could work ...

click the assassination implant on and if you get a headshot in your next shot its a OSOK. then there is a 45 second cooldown on the skill whether you get the headshot or not.

so this way they would have to be a dedicated sniper, have to give up an implant slot (assuming PS2 will have them) and its not a constant thing. like someone else said I knew a few snipers in PS1 that will make SOE take OSOK out.

[GalacticaActual]

I have said it in the other thread already: I'm fine with OSOK headshots by Sniperrifles BUT ONLY AT A CLOSER RANGE.

If your target is at full health/armour and is wearing an Agile Exo-Suit a headshot is deadly at up to 30m.
If your target is at full health/armour and is wearing a Reinforced Exo-Suit a headshot is deadly at up to 10m.

Above these ranges a headshot would still do high damage but would not be instant death anymore unless the target would be damaged. To make that work, the sniperrifles of PS2 would have to be effected by damage degradtion over range like the other weapos.

PS: MAX units should also take higher damage from headshots by sniperrifles!

Wouldn't only allowing headshots from sniper rifles within 30m/10m be slightly pointless? If you're that close you would probably be dead before you could get the shot off (assuming that your target isn't facing away from you of course).

I like the idea of OSOK headshots from Sniper rifles. If a player is good/lucky enough to get a headshot from a decent distance then they deserve the OSOK. We have sniper rifles in the real world that can put holes in a tank from over a mile away, I don't think it would break the fiction of PS2 that much to have players die instantly if they get hit in the head with a sniper rifle round.

[Redshift]

We have sniper rifles in the real world that can put holes in a tank from over a mile away, I don't think it would break the fiction of PS2 that much to have players die instantly if they get hit in the head with a sniper rifle round.

Don't talk about realy world stuff, we want to game to be balanced not a sim

[GalacticaActual]

Don't talk about realy world stuff, we want to game to be balanced not a sim

I'm not saying make the game a sim, I'm thinking that the game should just make sense.

I'll buy a lot of bullshit when it comes to suspension of disbelief in games or films, but the idea that a sniper rifle designed and used by a culture that can colonise other worlds wouldn't kill someone if they got shot in the head with it? That just seems stupid.

I'm not suggesting that OSOK headshot should be easy or frequent, i think even without some of the sacrifices suggested in this thread getting a head shot is going to be damn difficult. Why make it harder?

[Kietharr]

Snipers should take longer to reload than they did in PS1 and should still only be accurate when crouched and scoped.

I cannot emphasize enough how much i DO NOT want to see snipers end up like the AWP.

But on the otherhand I will say that a lot of the bad reaction to instakills is silly considering there were a dozen ways to get more or less instakilled in the original game. Flail shot, OS, running around a corner into a jackhammer user using third person to see around corners, mowed by a tank, smacked by a vanguard shell, running into a reaver, ect. Snipers OHKOing people isn't going to ruin the game if none of those did.

[Raymac]

I'm not even going to worry about it at this point. Balance issues, especially something like this, will get worked out in beta and at launch. Every mmo makes balance tweeks.

[The Desert Fox]

All of you Super Navy-Seal Sniper Badasses make me laugh. I am willing to bet none of you are as good as you say you are or you wouldn't be bitching so damn much. Seriously this is the saddest argument I have ever seen. You all bitching about not being able to do something about it, HOW ABOUT NOT GET SHOT? HOW ABOUT ZIG-ZAG OR GET BEHIND COVER OR DON'T GO OUTSIDE?? By your logic I want the AV cert removed cause in current planetside a sniper can fire a Deci at me then hit me with a bolt driver round at the same time AND I CAN'T STOP HIM SO IT NEEEEDDS TO BE REMOVED RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!11!!one!!!!!

[Vancha]

HOW ABOUT NOT GET SHOT?
Impossible.

HOW ABOUT ZIG-ZAG?
All the time? Forever?

OR GET BEHIND COVER?
That's typically where I kill people as a sniper...People who think they're safe behind cover.

DON'T GO OUTSIDE??
In a game that's going to be 50-60% outside?

By your logic I want the AV cert removed cause in current planetside a sniper can fire a Deci at me then hit me with a bolt driver round at the same time AND I CAN'T STOP HIM SO IT NEEEEDDS TO BE REMOVED RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!11!!one!!!!!
Well done, you've just discovered the reason they opted for a class system in PS2 (cert combinations).

I never certed rexo when I played back in the day, but I had it for free during the 45 days, so I got to use double bolt-drivers with auto-reload off. I'd shoot the first one, switch to the second without moving my crosshair and fire off the second one in less time than it would have taken to reload the first. As the person doing the killing there, I freely confess it was lame as hell. It was a crutch. Did anyone ever complain about it? No. I doubt most of them even realized what happened...but none the less it was lame as hell and it was only possible because I had the combination of bolt driver and rexo.



Stop being ridiculous.

[BlazingSun]

Wouldn't only allowing headshots from sniper rifles within 30m/10m be slightly pointless? If you're that close you would probably be dead before you could get the shot off (assuming that your target isn't facing away from you of course).


No it actually would have an impact. First of all, don't assume that all enemies are at full health all the time. In big fights, there were also always groups of enemies hiding behind cover repairing/healing themself. If you could get in a good position you could pick off some targets. It could happen though, that your target would survive 2 or even 3 shots, as he just sat there and healed himself. If you could land a headshot though that would deal let's say 90 damage at once instead of 65, he'd be dead straight away.
It would also improve the snipers defense a little bit, as it would be a bit risky attacking him up close, but if he missed his shot, he'd be dead.

I have been in some discussions lately with people who fear that certain things would have a negative impact on gameplay. In this case, for the first time, I do feel the same. Having sniperrifles that can instantly kill at long range could be bad for the game. And that's coming from someone who really likes playing Sniper in FPSs. :groovy:

[BlazingSun]

I never certed rexo when I played back in the day, but I had it for free during the 45 days, so I got to use double bolt-drivers with auto-reload off. I'd shoot the first one, switch to the second without moving my crosshair and fire off the second one in less time than it would have taken to reload the first.

That's nothing. I admit I got about 200 kills or so back in the day by hotswapping sniperrifles - 2 shots almost within a second :rolleyes::evil:

[Kietharr]

No it actually would have an impact. First of all, don't assume that all enemies are at full health all the time. In big fights, there were also always groups of enemies hiding behind cover repairing/healing themself. If you could get in a good position you could pick off some targets. It could happen though, that your target would survive 2 or even 3 shots, as he just sat there and healed himself. If you could land a headshot though that would deal let's say 90 damage at once instead of 65, he'd be dead straight away.
It would also improve the snipers defense a little bit, as it would be a bit risky attacking him up close, but if he missed his shot, he'd be dead.

I have been in some discussions lately with people who fear that certain things would have a negative impact on gameplay. In this case, for the first time, I do feel the same. Having sniperrifles that can instantly kill at long range could be bad for the game. And that's coming from someone who really likes playing Sniper in FPSs. :groovy:

I'd be more worried about snipers that instantly kill you at short range and I'd reverse the argument, making sniper headshots that close less effective.

Provided they have bullet physics (which they said they would) long range sniping will be a difficult thing to do. But any idiot can run up and blast you in the head with a 1 shot kill cannon like the AWP. Basically encouraging snipers to play like they would in COD would make the gameplay crappy like in COD. Everyone running around with their one shot kill rifles and telling anyone they instakill to switch to sniper or uninstall.

As for long range death ruining the game, as I said, did getting whacked by the occasional flail shot or blasted by an OS ruin the game for you? No, I'd wager it did not. And as far as lameness goes both were far, far more lame than being sniped.

[Bags]

I hate flails and I'm sure the majority of the player base does too.

[Raymac]

I hate flails and I'm sure the majority of the player base does too.

Perhaps, but most of us like the idea of having artillery, so go figure.

[artifice]

OSOK should be available from the get-go, but it should be more difficult for a beginner than someone that has improved in their sniper class.

[Sifer2]

I don't think i'll even bother to vote. As I don't see it making it out of Beta honestly. People already started gravitating towards being Snipers all the time out doors late in Planetside 1. An that was without one shot kills. Maybe once literally everyone is playing a Sniper they will realize it was stupid for a game like this. The only way Sniper spam wont occur is if they majorly up the accuracy an effective range on AR's so that you can kill Snipers with them. But this will make the game into a spawn/die/spawn/die Call of Duty game. Like I said I suspect they realize its broken in Beta and it doesn't go through.

What works of Call of Duty when its like 15 guys fighting 15 other guys doesn't work when its 300 vs 300.

[BlazingSun]

I'd be more worried about snipers that instantly kill you at short range and I'd reverse the argument, making sniper headshots that close less effective.

Provided they have bullet physics (which they said they would) long range sniping will be a difficult thing to do. But any idiot can run up and blast you in the head with a 1 shot kill cannon like the AWP. Basically encouraging snipers to play like they would in COD would make the gameplay crappy like in COD. Everyone running around with their one shot kill rifles and telling anyone they instakill to switch to sniper or uninstall.

I disagree. First of all, if the sniper will be anything like the one in PS1, you will have to remain stationary in order to guarantee a hit. Your target will most likely move and not just sit around. If you have been spotted you'll be under fire as well. Getting a headshot off in this situation is not that easy and I doubt the majority of the snipers could pull that off without quite some luck.

You could argue that the Sniper could be used in a base defense at choke points. I'd say that a grenade launcher for example would be more lethal.

As for long range death ruining the game, as I said, did getting whacked by the occasional flail shot or blasted by an OS ruin the game for you? No, I'd wager it did not. And as far as lameness goes both were far, far more lame than being sniped.


I'm against long range OSOK not because of my personal preference or because I fear getting killed by that. Infact I'd benefit way more from that, than I'd lose. Hell ... you are talking to the man who shot aircrafts out of the air with a sniperrifle, when he felt like it. ;)

I'm against it, because I think it would be bad for the game and would have a negative effect on Infantry combat. While I was typing this another thought came to my mind: Everyone will have access to all classes. I'm not sure if that means that everyone will have access to a basic sniperrifle as well, or if you would have to unlock one first. Either way it seems, it will be more likely that more people will have access to one than in the first game. This could/would completely destroy gameplay.


My message was apparently too short, hence I wrote this sentence.

[artifice]

The sniper rifle in Planetside 1 can't even be qualified as a sniper rifle. The whole point of a sniper rifle is to kill at a very long range.

[Volw]

The sniper rifle in Planetside 1 can't even be qualified as a sniper rifle. The whole point of a sniper rifle is to kill at a very long range.

Which requires a little more skill than just putting your crosshair on target.

Unless you expected OSOK weapon in a game with no physics? Really?

[ShowNoMercy]

Also, XP should be granted based on the damage done, not on a kill you could or could not get.

possible room for exploiting? I can def think of a few ways.

They might want to make it xp awarded on the fraction of dmg done resulting in the kill or on a short timer basis. Wouldnt want people to take advantage of it by coordinating with the enemy to deal multiple partials to a single guy then killing him to give partial xp to a bunch of people. Does that make any sense?

[Vancha]

The sniper rifle in Planetside 1 can't even be qualified as a sniper rifle. The whole point of a sniper rifle is to kill at a very long range.
Did Bolt drivers not?

[Redshift]

Everyone will have access to all classes. I'm not sure if that means that everyone will have access to a basic sniperrifle as well, or if you would have to unlock one first. Either way it seems, it will be more likely that more people will have access to one than in the first game. This could/would completely destroy gameplay.

Yea i had that thought as well, if we all have all the certs at any one time even if we can't use them at once, we're always going to have access to the best cert for any given situation, which i'm not sure is good
i.e bridge battle, everyone gets sniper rifles; indoors everyone pulls MAXes

[Volw]

Yea i had that thought as well, if we all have all the certs at any one time even if we can't use them at once, we're always going to have access to the best cert for any given situation, which i'm not sure is good
i.e bridge battle, everyone gets sniper rifles; indoors everyone pulls MAXes

Most of PS1 players are far above BR25 and have access to pretty much all certs. What's the difference?

[Redshift]

Most of PS1 players are far above BR25 and have access to pretty much all certs. What's the difference?

because most people agree that was a mistake

[Volw]

because most people agree that was a mistake

True, but even though everyone has access to everything, I don't see indoor battles turning into MAXfest and bridge battles turning into a sniperfest.

[Redshift]

True, but even though everyone has access to everything, I don't see indoor battles turning into MAXfest and bridge battles turning into a sniperfest.

i do

if you're being pushed into a spawn room so much that you're taking half damage by the time you get to the term you're obviously going to pull AI max then AV max then AA max then rexo's, currently not everyone can do that.

Now i don't know how it will work in PS2 but if that system was just dumped into PS1 pushing a spawn room would never work down to the shear number of AV weapons you can't carry :P

I hope they've thought of things like that, but i'm still reserving my right to be pessimistic :P

[Coreldan]

Rather have it from the get-go or not have it at all. I think it's a horrible idea of a vet having a built-in mechanic to allow to deal more damage than a new player.

[Tybo]

Sniper was kind of a joke in PS1, hopefully they wiill be a bit more usefull in PS2, as a scout/sniper combo rather than firing a highly visible/innacurate laser beam.

[Bags]

Sniper was fine in PS1.

[Lunarchild]

I personally think one shot one kill should only work long range: The further away, the harder it is to hit someone's head. Otherwise people will just use it as a chance mechanism and jump for someone's head and fire to get an insta-kill.

I also think that sniper's bullets should be affected by both bullet drop and time latency, making it hard enough to hit someone, and VERY hard to hit someone's head!

[Valdae]

Well I'm sure everyone knows that unlike games like TF2 and CS:S, scoping in the first Planetside required waiting a few seconds for the crosshairs to fully shrink. If they implement the same system with bullet physics in PS2, then I dont see any way in which headshots will seem overpowered - particularly in close combat. And just for the record, I thought sniping in PS1 was pretty underwhelming.

[CutterJohn]

Otherwise people will just use it as a chance mechanism and jump for someone's head and fire to get an insta-kill.

They'll try. And mostly suck at it. And the long reload on the sniper rifles and short ttk of other weapons will mean they die far more often than not.

In BC2, sniper rifles are one shot body shots within 10 meters, and most snipers will still just switch to their pistol for short range stuff because a pistol is a better CQC weapon than a one shot one kill anywhere on the body rifle with a long reload.

That reload kills you.

[Kran De Loy]

newb Question: What is OSOK?

From the references I think it's One Shot One Kill, but I want to confirm. I tried to google it and I kept getting bullshit data bases saying they have no fucking clue either.

Btw: One of guildies said he loved being a sniper with 2 rifles in PS1.. I think he said he took a major hit in ammo and no other back up weapon, but he did it because it was faster to shoot, switch weapons than shoot again than it was to wait for the reload on the first rifle by something like half a second or so which would really throw off most people with any experience in a sniper fight.

That's a pretty good example of balance between tactics and risks, imo.

[CutterJohn]

osok = one shot one kill.

[Kran De Loy]

osok = one shot one kill.

tyvm for the confirm. :)

[Volw]

Btw: One of guildies said he loved being a sniper with 2 rifles in PS1.. I think he said he took a major hit in ammo and no other back up weapon, but he did it because it was faster to shoot, switch weapons than shoot again than it was to wait for the reload on the first rifle by something like half a second or so which would really throw off most people with any experience in a sniper fight.

That's a pretty good example of balance between tactics and risks, imo.


That's a pretty good example of abusing game mechanics.

[exLupo]

That's a pretty good example of abusing game mechanics.

Making the most of a bad situation. You gimped yourself so much by dual slotting bolt drivers that the more or less absent dev staff didn't deem it worth their extremely limited man hours.

[Vancha]

That's the same "trick" I mentioned on page 3. Extra ammo, extra armour and quicker kills compared to agile...If that's gimping myself, hand me my zipmask.

[Dreamcast]

Reload times and accuracy seem to be winning.


I picked all of them as sacrifices but my favorite one is them having weaker armor and being able to be headshot it by all snipers.

[Lunarchild]

One thing that I think might be important. If this game supports silencers (and I think it will), snipers should NOT be able to one-shot people with one of those ^^

[Treerat]

Personally I don't mind one-shot kills as long as it takes a hefty amount of actual setup. And snipers should be (and usually are) all about setup. Finding a spot where they won't be immediately noticed (and nuked by a vehicle or artillery, perforated with bullets, or chopped up by a cloaker with a knife soon after). Locating targets that are only visible for short periods of time due to their movement and a very restricted field of view. Picking out targets standing still or moving slowly/ predictably enough that it's possible to actually hit the head (which is a much smaller target than the body). Then avoiding being found after the shot when everyone and his dog (who probably is smarter and a better person than the human) is foaming at the mouth to kill the "noob" that had the balls to dare to kill someone outside of a "run and spray" gun battle.

Plus there are lots of tactics for avoiding snipers that work - just none that people want to use because they require cooperation and mean having to forgo padding a kill count for a bit. Things like traveling in a transport instead of running around on foot,and looking for possible sniper nests before blindly running towards an obvious objective. Or the time-honored approach of planning your route of advance based on the cover available to you and a potential sniper instead of the shortest (and thus most likely) route from a known or suspected starting point to a target point (ex back door) that the enemy is certain you'll attack. If you're really desperate, there is the old standby of... *gasp* calling in the artillery you loath or getting better snipers. All those tactics are used in games and/ or real battles and believe it or not they work.

So how about this? To get a one shot kill requires the sniper (or anyone using infantry weapons) to actually hit the head hit box (not by a cert/ skill but by actually aiming for that spot). Also remove the on-screen sight from the rifle (and preferably all weapons lacking a laser sight or camera with an optical link to the soldiers HUD) so that the use of the sights (scope or iron) is required. Finally, require (just like PS does now) a degree of time for the sites to "settle" before it has any degree of accuracy. With those limits getting a one-shot kill is very much a matter of skill, certainly more skillful that the drooling, HA-toting, mossie-dropping idiots who seem to characterize the large majority of sniper-haters (and BFR haters, and AA-haters - pretty much all the ones who hate anything that isn't fodder for a Mosquito or someone toting HA).

Though now I am starting to see why PS got so bad that SOE opted to basically kill it and restart the game instead of carry out a massive overhaul. It was abrupt failure of the population levees due to the sheer egomania of the "vets" who couldn't tolerate anyone kiling them but another "vet" using a "community approved" play style (ie. reaver, mossie, or sweeper/ HA spray). With the sort of attitude I'm seeing here, I'm not surprised that Planetside died; I wouldn't want to stay in a game where 90% of my time was spent having to "defend" my preference of equipment and play style from self-proclaimed "elites" either. Especially when I can go to other games where if that starts to happen an admin comes in and starts swinging the ban hammer until the "elites" get the message.

[dm Akolyte]

As a player whose preferred play style in PS was easily sniping, I'm concerned about how it will translate to PS2.

PS is the only game where I spent a large ammount of time snipng. I normally stick to high mobility play styles in other FPSs.

What made sniping so enjoyable for me in PS, was it was so different from other games. Instead of being about 'twitch' aim, travel time and the way CoF worked in PS made sniping much more about planning and prediction.

Landing the first shot was trivial. Outdoor infantry combat was much more static than many other games. The lack of OSOK weapons, and the overall high TTK overall, meant that the accuracy benefit of standing still was worth being an easier target.
So with the first shot often being a virtual guarantee, the skill in sniping came in the second shot: hitting a moving target before they got to cover. Bullet travel time meant you had to lead your target, and because your accuracy would suffer greatly from changing where you were aiming, you had to plan ahead for which way you thought the enemy would run.
Pulling off these difficult finishing shots was what made sniping rewarding.

OSOK head shots will mean killing a stationary target will be trivial, bunless a ridiculous amount of ADS sway is added, but with bullet travel headshots on moving targets will be hardly anything more than luck unless the target is running in a perfectly straight line.

OSOK head shots won't make sniping any more 'skillful,' it will just make standing still outside for any amount of time a death sentence.

[Traak]

How about making the bullets very light, thus easily swayed by wind and velocity degraded by drag, so accuracy falls off drastically with distance.

And making one-shot executions of snipers with a pistol or knife to the head just as valid.

[Baneblade]

Rather than focus on the sniper end of it, why not do something about the targets ability to avoid a OSOK? Like special helmet options. Perhaps it is only OSOK on a lightly armored helmet.

[Traak]

OSOK only works on snipers who are shooting at other snipers. There. Now they can circle-OSOK to their little hearts' content.

[dm Akolyte]

OSOK only works on snipers who are shooting at other snipers. There. Now they can circle-OSOK to their little hearts' content.

I assume you're mostly joking, but that would compound the problem frequently seen with sniper type classes; the most dangerous opponent to a sniper is another sniper. So snipers end up not being able to do anything but look for and engage other snipers, who are doing the same thing themselves. So none of them actually contribute in any way that could equivalently be accomplished by removing sniping altogether.

[Vancha]

With those limits getting a one-shot kill is very much a matter of skill, certainly more skillful that the drooling, HA-toting, mossie-dropping idiots who seem to characterize the large majority of sniper-haters (and BFR haters, and AA-haters - pretty much all the ones who hate anything that isn't fodder for a Mosquito or someone toting HA).
And yet it's the snipers from Planetside who seem the most vehemently opposed to one-shot kills...

I think Akolyte put it the best. Getting that first shot was always so easy...It was the second shot that took some ability. If the first shot could have killed in PS1, snipers would have been simply monstrous. Now obviously PS2 will be different, but a game of Planetside scale will have unmoving targets, so for OSOK to be balanced, snipers would have to be absolutely horrendous to use.

[Treerat]

No it's the self-declared "snipers" who are saying that. Some of whom I know (from being on the same or opposite side) rarely if ever left their reaver or mossie until the entire fight was indoors, much less for an outdoor battle.

And frankly, you people are just making the case for this being your personal bias and not an actual rational concern stronger. None of you even bothered to counter my point about their being plenty of tactics to defend against snipers, or the earlier poster who pointed out that while you people whine and cry about a sniper being able to kill you in one shot, you are all deathly silent on the other one-shot-kill weapons like Vanguard guns or those "no way out so bend over" matchups like the reaver versus infantry. To me, that screams that you really don't object to a one-shot-kill; you just don't like them when YOU aren't the one doing them with your favorite way of playing. And that is simply not acceptable because your favorite way of playing has no more value than that of anyone else.

Plus this is all a waste of bytes. That one-shot kill capacity is in the game has been confirmed says it is going to stay. Maybe instead of trying to neuter it until it is effectively removed, you should be trying to come out with counters beyond the "shitstorm of forum tantrums until it's removed".

[Vancha]

No it's the self-declared "snipers" who are saying that. Some of whom I know (from being on the same or opposite side) rarely if ever left their reaver or mossie until the entire fight was indoors, much less for an outdoor battle.

And frankly, you people are just making the case for this being your personal bias and not an actual rational concern stronger. None of you even bothered to counter my point about their being plenty of tactics to defend against snipers, or the earlier poster who pointed out that while you people whine and cry about a sniper being able to kill you in one shot, you are all deathly silent on the other one-shot-kill weapons like Vanguard guns or those "no way out so bend over" matchups like the reaver versus infantry. To me, that screams that you really don't object to a one-shot-kill; you just don't like them when YOU aren't the one doing them with your favorite way of playing. And that is simply not acceptable because your favorite way of playing has no more value than that of anyone else.

Plus this is all a waste of bytes. That one-shot kill capacity is in the game has been confirmed says it is going to stay. Maybe instead of trying to neuter it until it is effectively removed, you should be trying to come out with counters beyond the "shitstorm of forum tantrums until it's removed".
Oh, nice to know I've been included in your group of "drooling, HA-toting, mossie-dropping idiots who seem to characterize the large majority of sniper-haters", despite never really having certed HA, never having spammed troops in aircav and quite clearly criticized OSOK as the sniper and not the victim. I have to wonder if anyone who disagreed with you wouldn't be put into that group...

And no, one-shot sniper kills certainly haven't been confirmed as staying, hence "Exact balance for this is not final, but that's the general idea that we're going with and we'll tweak as necessary."

And the reasons I didn't reply to your points were numerous. Firstly, no matter what people travel in or what route they take, eventually people will have to approach doorways, often doorways that can't be entered at that moment, which is when snipers would have their way with the target in question. Secondly, the difference between a prowler/vanguard and a sniper is that the sniper is much less visible, much more accurate at long range and doesn't require two people to operate. Oh, and it's not a tank. Thirdly, I've already explained that if sniper one-shot kills are overpowered, there are snipers I can rely upon to make that imbalance abundantly clear to SOE.

[Sinj]

...None of you even bothered to counter my point about their being plenty of tactics to defend against snipers, or the earlier poster who pointed out that while you people whine and cry about a sniper being able to kill you in one shot, you are all deathly silent on the other one-shot-kill weapons like Vanguard guns or those "no way out so bend over" matchups like the reaver versus infantry...

The difference is, I can hear those vehicles coming and react accordingly (even if it is only to die running). With a sniper one shot kill there is no reacting, you get the best of both worlds (silent and on shot kill).

If I were able to be instantly killed every time I stepped out of my vehicle to repair it by something I have no chance of reacting to I probably wouldn't have played PS for as long as I have.

[Traak]

...but that would compound the problem frequently seen with sniper type classes; the most dangerous opponent to a sniper is another sniper. So snipers end up not being able to do anything but look for and engage other snipers, who are doing the same thing themselves. So none of them actually contribute in any way that could equivalently be accomplished by removing sniping altogether.

No, I'm not joking. OSK only working sniper-to-sniper means we can go about running and gunning, instead of having a game where 80 percent of the people are cowering behind cover while the god-like snipers are swaggering around dominating the battlefield.

Since when is it NOT the case that the most dangerous opponent to a sniper is another sniper?

There are games that cater to snipers. Planetside is not supposed to be one of them. The focus is on teamwork, maneuver, and face-to-face, vehicle-to-vehicle combat. It isn't on making it so the snipers are like real-world army SpecOps snipers with Barretts, and the rest of us are the unsuspecting Taliban, unable to effectively shoot back.

Maximizing the role of snipers ruins the game for the other 80 percent of the people. Or 95 percent.

So, I reaffirm that having snipers only able to OSK other snipers is great. You will find out how much you enjoy sniping when you are evenly matched against others who are also sniping, instead of being able to dominate the battlespace because the vast majority of people don't want the game to be Sniperside.

The game isn't balanced when you have one class of people being able to pick off others with impunity with little concern for retaliation.

If you like sniping so much, that it is important to you that you can do one shot kills, then play games, such as modded Unreal Tournament games with nothing but snipers on the map. Or do snipers only enjoy sniping when they are relatively invincible, but when they are in danger of being counter-sniped, suddenly it's no fun?

If you are a sniper, then you are the only person who can be one-shot-killed by a sniper. Additionally, due to your lack of helmet, so you can properly use your scope, you can be one-stab-to-the-head executed by anyone, and one-shot killed by a pistol at close range. That is what I advocate.

Most people lobby for what they want. Or against what they don't want, that is understandable. But for the good of the game as a whole, OSK snipers aren't good for the gameplay. And if we wanted excruciatingly realistic combat, we'd just join the real armed forces of our real countries.

I'm an AMS driver. What I want to see with our spawn points, assuming AMSes even exist, is that they are truly invisible, to everyone, at all times, under all circumstances, without the "here I am" flash that happens when they enter your field of vision from afar. Unlike the idea of OSK snipers, my idea doesn't imbalance the game in favor of AMS drivers.

However, were I the more "lobby for what I want at the expense of everybody else" type, I would be saying that we need AMSes to be indestructible, with an energy shield that no enemy can see, penetrate, or even shoot into, and not show up on radar.

But I don't, because my ides of "balance" aren't "I get what I want and everyone else suffers." I actually appreciate snipers. To give them the god-like power to instantly kill everybody else on the battlefield from long distances with no warning isn't "balance."

[Logit]

I assume you're mostly joking, but that would compound the problem frequently seen with sniper type classes; the most dangerous opponent to a sniper is another sniper. So snipers end up not being able to do anything but look for and engage other snipers, who are doing the same thing themselves. So none of them actually contribute in any way that could equivalently be accomplished by removing sniping altogether.

I would be perfectly OK if they removed sniping all together in PS2. I'll always fail to see how sniping in planetside is any fun at all.

No matter your argument, I am completely biased.

When I think of OSOK I think of the original Team Fortress Classic. Yes, I was able to rack up TONS of kills, but it really wasn't all that fun for me. In such a massive game like Planetside, it seems silly that people just sit miles away from the battle with hundreds of people to target that most likely can't do anything to return fire because you've already ducked behind a hill.

With so many targets OSOK will be annoying.

[Timey]

If accuracy is penalized, it would bring shooting with the sniper close to throwing craps. i.e just aim in thereabouts and you still might score a headshot, whereas if the accuracy is pinpoint you'd have to actually be able to aim. So, a big no for accuracy decrease.

I voted for reload / mag size, but I don't really care - they'll be balanced (beta and stuff).

Also, hi.

Edit: maybe add a ½ sec sway when you bring in the scope, I'd hate sniping with that in but meh.

[FIREk]

This is all pretty simple. Smed and Matt pretty much confirmed that bullet ballistics (drop and speed) will be present in the game. Overall, SOE are adopting a lot of ideas from the newer Battlefield games and we should assume that sniping will be BFBC2-like.

Now, all of you complaining about OSOK get yourself a copy of Battlefield: Bad Company 2. Choose the recon class and try one-shotting other players.

Landing a shot on a faraway, possibly even moving, target's head is insanely hard when you've got ballistics. If someone one-shots you in Planetside 2, then:
1) They deserve it,
2) You should adapt to become a more difficult target for snipers, rather than hoping that the game will change to become easier for you. :P

I liked the comment about the possibility of being one-shotted making the game more dynamic. Unless the sniper has got a partner, you could always duck behind cover in PlanetSide 1 and heal yourself. You then return to your part of the ridge, shoot, get hit, heal, rinse, repeat.

Personally, I'm all for one-shot sniper kills on anything but a MAX unit, including most vehicle occupants (not Gal pilots and MBT drivers/gunners, for instance). Just to clarify, I'm an up close and personal pump-action shotgun kind of FPS gamer, so I'm not really biased towards snipers here. ;)

[Vancha]

I liked the comment about the possibility of being one-shotted making the game more dynamic. Unless the sniper has got a partner, you could always duck behind cover in PlanetSide 1 -...
At which point the sniper should have landed a second shot, because they shouldn't be sniping directly opposite the enemy, thus allowing them to simply duck down and heal themselves.

Obviously I'm not going to buy a game that my computer probably couldn't run anyway just so I can "speculate accurately", but I will say that PS2 is not BFBC2 (or at least, I hope it won't be). Unlike a game of Battlefield's scale, I imagine people in PS2 will have far more reasons to be still at various times (as they did in PS1 compared to other FPS').

[Dreamcast]

any updates osok?

[Raymac]

any updates osok?

Curiously, in the twitter Q&A, when it was asked "Headshot = kill?" They replied "Headshot = headshot".

I may be too much of a semanticist, but that doesn't sound like a confirmation or a denial. :confused:

[Grimster]

Well I think they put it that way intentionally because right now they maybe don't know how they wanna put it. I am sure that this will get properly tested in the beta. :)

[NapalmEnima]

One Shot One Kill to the head is kind of the quintessential Sniper Thing. A heavy assault might barely survive, and MAXes might not care... but everyone else will probably go down. Maybe light assault with a high max-charge shield and a Heavy Helmet (at the cost of some speed, probably not a popular choice).

I also wouldn't be surprised to find that snipers get some tailored ammo specifically for piercing heavier shields too.

And lets not forget that 50 caliber rifles were originally used as anti-tank weapons during WWI and early WWII (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_rifle).

A shield piercing round at specific bits of equipment on the exterior of a tank could be an excellent way to disable some systems in PS2.

[Wahooo]

Curiously, in the twitter Q&A, when it was asked "Headshot = kill?" They replied "Headshot = headshot".

I may be too much of a semanticist, but that doesn't sound like a confirmation or a denial. :confused:

I thought the idea was that headshots in general were still being worked on/balanced for most of the weapons. I HATE most games where someone is quite literally spraying and praying and just happens to get a headshot. From what we've read/heard so far it sounds like it will be limited to certain weapons or damage adjusted right? So i'm taking headshot = headshot as meaning all those details are far from being worked out.

As far as sniper rifles i'm pretty excited about what i've heard so far. PS has some of the best balance in the sniping department. OSOK with all the factors they've talked about sounds ok. I just don't want to see quick scoping and snap firing viable. No-scoping can be ok, as long as there is some kind of COF or bloom similar to what we have now if you were running around with a bolt driver inside.

[TacosWLove]

One Shot One Kill to the head is kind of the quintessential Sniper Thing. A heavy assault might barely survive, and MAXes might not care... but everyone else will probably go down. Maybe light assault with a high max-charge shield and a Heavy Helmet (at the cost of some speed, probably not a popular choice).

I also wouldn't be surprised to find that snipers get some tailored ammo specifically for piercing heavier shields too.

And lets not forget that 50 caliber rifles were originally used as anti-tank weapons during WWI and early WWII (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_rifle).

A shield piercing round at specific bits of equipment on the exterior of a tank could be an excellent way to disable some systems in PS2.

Yes this is about exactly how I feel about it, but I believe the recoil should be significantly more simple because you would be using a higher energy bullet.

[TheGoatFather]

I trust the team to make OSOK a reality for only the most skilled of snipers. If you stand around like a jackass waiting to get shot by a sniper, you will. If their movement tracking at range is so accurate as to hit a tiny head on a body that is running at speed, then they deserve the OSOK.

Snipers will get counter-sniped. People will use suppressive fire and ballistics to pin them down. Air units will harass them until they die. As long as you can't instantly hit a target from 1000m with a quickscope then I think OSOK headshots should be allowed for snipers. It's the point of the gun!

[DviddLeff]

Firstly, Headshots should be the Last step of a skill tree, so a dedicated sniper will have to work for it.

Vomits all over the thread.

Seriously? This is a MASSIVE advantage, its not a 20% better thing, its game breaking.

If one shot head shots are in they need to be available to all, with almost any weapon (not AoE) as long as they have the ability to aim and take account of bullet drop and target movement.

[Brusi]

I think he means osok headshots, not simply the ability to differentiate the headshot hitbox.

[Graywolves]

Vomits all over the thread.

Seriously? This is a MASSIVE advantage, its not a 20% better thing, its game breaking.

If one shot head shots are in they need to be available to all, with almost any weapon (not AoE) as long as they have the ability to aim and take account of bullet drop and target movement.

Actually the plan they have for this is very good. They have plenty of physics involved with the bullets so snipers will have to do some work/foresight for their headshots. Each weapon will be designated how much damage it does for headshots. A very fast firing weapon such as an MCG will do much less damage to the head than a slow firing weapon. If every weapon did OSOK headshots then what would be the point of having a variety of weapons when I can just spray head level and kill everyone before me?

[FIREk]

If one shot head shots are in they need to be available to all, with almost any weapon (not AoE) as long as they have the ability to aim and take account of bullet drop and target movement.

My interpretation of the "headshot = headshot" comment on Twitter is simply what was revealed before - that weapons will get bonus damage when hitting the head hitbox. Higby also wrote that different weapons will get different bonuses. So an MCG, often being just a spray-and-pray weapon, might get no bonus damage, assault rifles might get some and sniper rifles will get a lot.

Giving every single weapon, including MCGs and assault rifles, one-shot headshots would be a bad idea. PS2's pacing won't be that fast, and we don't want random one-shots, from spray-and-pray weapons and players, killing people instantly instead of within the prescribed 1-2 seconds.
That's a big difference from Counter-Strike, for instance, where you can easily die in half a second without any headshots taking place. 0,5s isn't that much of a difference from 0,0s. ;)

So, the bonus damage from a sniper rifle may be just enough one-shot anyone in light armor, but a full-shield, full-health heavily-armored guy might just survive with a scrap of HP.
Since we will have regenerative shields, some players will likely pay less attention to health, meaning some extra headshot OSOK possibilities on those heavier classes that may not want to use up their medkits too early.

Also, being able to one-shot the same targets as a 5-year uber-certed sniper should be available for the 5-minute player who wants to see if the sniper class is the right one for him.
No one should need to RTFM to figure out whether or not they can benefit from such a basic mechanic as powerful sniper rifle headshots.
It shouldn't be dependent on the certs, or at least not on high-tier ones. Skill > time played.

It's very simple in my opinion, if a player manages to hit a tiny head at long range, having to account for drop and distance, and sometimes even projectile and target speed and direction, he bloody well deserves one-shot kills on anything less armored than a MAX.

This is how it works in BFBC2 ad it works great - if you stay stationary in the open, making a sniper's work easier, you deserve to get your head cracked open. Other than being reasonable, it adds another tactical layer to the game, plus it's realistic in a way - keep your head down or prepare to lose it.

The victims are left with three choices:
- L2P and learn how to stay alive,
- suck it up and learn to deal with dying a lot,
- ragequit and blame your failings on OSOK mechanics. :P

[Lonehunter]

One Shot One Kill seems like a pretty significant mechanic to me, something that shouldn't be restricted to skill/training advancement. It seems like it's going against the theory of, new players being just as powerful as vet players.

[Dreamcast]

Vomits all over the thread.

Seriously? This is a MASSIVE advantage, its not a 20% better thing, its game breaking.

If one shot head shots are in they need to be available to all, with almost any weapon (not AoE) as long as they have the ability to aim and take account of bullet drop and target movement.

I was referring to OSOK so everybody will have headshot bonus damage.



I was just saying since everybody was against OSOK, it could be best just to let people heavily invested in sniping have OSOK.....but they have to sacrifice alot for it, as you can see from the poll options.


So really they wouldn't be op....the system will be design to make it tough against OSOK snipers.

[Lonehunter]

So really they wouldn't be op
Only allowing snipers the OSOK after much training would create an unfair scenario. Two snipers, one playing for a year the other a day. The guy playing for a day has NO CHANCE of killing the other guy if no one has any errors. The vet is going to kill him with one shot every time.

One of the main points of PS1 and they've said they want in PS2 is new players being equal to vet players. Yes vet players will get more variety, more option, but not capable of doing something as powerful as a OSOK so often. Things with cooldowns like OSs are a different story.

[Graywolves]

Only allowing snipers the OSOK after much training would create an unfair scenario. Two snipers, one playing for a year the other a day. The guy playing for a day has NO CHANCE of killing the other guy if no one has any errors. The vet is going to kill him with one shot every time.

One of the main points of PS1 and they've said they want in PS2 is new players being equal to vet players. Yes vet players will get more variety, more option, but not capable of doing something as powerful as a OSOK so often. Things with cooldowns like OSs are a different story.

They's only talking about the sniper rifle

[FIREk]

Only allowing snipers the OSOK after much training would create an unfair scenario. Two snipers, one playing for a year the other a day. The guy playing for a day has NO CHANCE of killing the other guy if no one has any errors. The vet is going to kill him with one shot every time.

This.

Powerful headshots are a core mechanic. It's like only allowing full-auto fire in an MCG after months of training certs - otherwise you need to click really fast and maintain accuracy while doing so. ;) Makes no sense and is unfair as hell.

Regardless of viewpoints, this will never be the case for a painfully simple reason. Allowing OSOK sniper rifles through skill training is WAY BIGGER than a 20% power difference. Not to mention the 20% is supposed to factor in tons of other advantages, meaning that weapon buffs will be 5-10% out of that 20%. :)

[Lonehunter]

They's only talking about the sniper rifle

Yup, I only mentioned OS's as a preemptive argument against "but OS's are one shot one kill"

[Night]

I think OSOK HS would be great. But, they should:

Remove the crosshair and reduce the accuracy a lot when non scoped so an actual hit then would be pure luck.

Make sure a sniper needs long range not to get killed by MA or HA. He must be very far away so the shot will be difficult.

The sniper will sacrifice armour and cant wear Rexo.

He will die from one headstabb with a knife if the stabber are speced for it. Cloakers can now counter snipers.

[Raka Maru]

No, I'm not joking. OSK only working sniper-to-sniper means we can go about running and gunning, instead of having a game where 80 percent of the people are cowering behind cover while the god-like snipers are swaggering around dominating the battlefield.

Everyone should learn about cover.


Since when is it NOT the case that the most dangerous opponent to a sniper is another sniper?

There are games that cater to snipers. Planetside is not supposed to be one of them. The focus is on teamwork, maneuver, and face-to-face, vehicle-to-vehicle combat. It isn't on making it so the snipers are like real-world army SpecOps snipers with Barretts, and the rest of us are the unsuspecting Taliban, unable to effectively shoot back.

Maximizing the role of snipers ruins the game for the other 80 percent of the people. Or 95 percent.

Sniping is never face to face or veh to veh, it is lonely, patient, and precise. It is a play style just like your play style. Just as valid as the MCG totters.


So, I reaffirm that having snipers only able to OSK other snipers is great. You will find out how much you enjoy sniping when you are evenly matched against others who are also sniping, instead of being able to dominate the battlespace because the vast majority of people don't want the game to be Sniperside.

The game isn't balanced when you have one class of people being able to pick off others with impunity with little concern for retaliation.

Snipers get hunted once the sniper warning is sent out. Especially if there is a zergfest.


If you like sniping so much, that it is important to you that you can do one shot kills, then play games, such as modded Unreal Tournament games with nothing but snipers on the map. Or do snipers only enjoy sniping when they are relatively invincible, but when they are in danger of being counter-sniped, suddenly it's no fun?

Once again, play style. Why send them to another game to play?


If you are a sniper, then you are the only person who can be one-shot-killed by a sniper. Additionally, due to your lack of helmet, so you can properly use your scope, you can be one-stab-to-the-head executed by anyone, and one-shot killed by a pistol at close range. That is what I advocate.

I do disagree with this however. You are saying that snipers should only stick with and shoot their own class effectively. Where is the balance in that?


Most people lobby for what they want. Or against what they don't want, that is understandable. But for the good of the game as a whole, OSK snipers aren't good for the gameplay. And if we wanted excruciatingly realistic combat, we'd just join the real armed forces of our real countries.

Missing a headshot still means you can run and get healed. Just don't stand there and give me the chance to shoot you in the head. Snipers add a level of realism that is good. Otherwise it would just be face to face and vehicles like you said. Knowing it is dangerous out there keeps you on your toes.


I'm an AMS driver. What I want to see with our spawn points, assuming AMSes even exist, is that they are truly invisible, to everyone, at all times, under all circumstances, without the "here I am" flash that happens when they enter your field of vision from afar. Unlike the idea of OSK snipers, my idea doesn't imbalance the game in favor of AMS drivers.

I like AMS's and am sad they are gone. I agree with you here.


However, were I the more "lobby for what I want at the expense of everybody else" type, I would be saying that we need AMSes to be indestructible, with an energy shield that no enemy can see, penetrate, or even shoot into, and not show up on radar.

But I don't, because my ides of "balance" aren't "I get what I want and everyone else suffers." I actually appreciate snipers. To give them the god-like power to instantly kill everybody else on the battlefield from long distances with no warning isn't "balance."

What I'm trying to tell you here, is that snipers can fit in the balance of this game. You just have to realize you will have to play differently (perhaps more realistically) when snipers have OSOK abilities.

I like playing my Max, Stealther, Engie, Support, Tanks.... Oh and my Sniper! I don't cower when an enemy sniper is near, I go find him or duck and grab my own bolt driver.

I change play styles when I feel like it. They are all valid to me.

[FIREk]

Snipers get hunted once the sniper warning is sent out. Especially if there is a zergfest.

If a sniper is in a regular spot, he will quickly get suppressed, then killed by a cloaker, or a vehicle.

If a sniper is on a great spot, like on a high hill, he will be hard to kill by a ground unit, but, having no support of his own, he will be easy pickings for aircraft.

There are so many downsides to being a sniper, how can you deny someone powerful, very skill-heavy headshots. :)

I do disagree with this however. You are saying that snipers should only stick with and shoot their own class effectively. Where is the balance in that?

While they shouldn't only attack snipers, it's very important for balance that they focus on that.
In Battlefield, if side A has got a sniper or two, and side B has none, side B quickly becomes plagued by side A's snipers. Therefore a sniper's main job is to make it as difficult as possible for enemy snipers to harass his buddies. After he's sure snipers won't be a problem for a while, he can move on to suppress and decapitate enemy infantry in general.

Missing a headshot still means you can run and get healed. Just don't stand there and give me the chance to shoot you in the head.

As long as a body shot doesn't do much damage past disabling shields, that's fine. Now that I can't heal myself when playing non-Medic, I shouldn't have to look for one every time I'm grazed by a poor sniper shot. ;)
Nor should I expend my limited supply of medkits after a sniper botched the shot. :P

I like AMS's and am sad they are gone. I agree with you here.

Here's hoping for being able to land a Galaxy and cloak it, or for Sunderers being able to deploy as an AMS equivalent...

[Wahooo]

Yeah, a sniper has so many things to worry about already, and this game is supposed to have more realistic ballistics so it isn't going to be like COD style quick scoping shooting through 2+ people. If you get headshot you deserved it. You were standing still, not aware of your surroundings or just unlucky once. If you get farmed by a sniper more than once it is all on you. If you get farmed by a sniper who has been in the kill spam a bunch in the last 30 seconds it is still all on you.

I am generally against headshots in games. I have always felt it rewards spray and pray. It gives everyone a "punchers chance". Most all arguments for them don't sit well with me anyway. But it sounds like this game has them undercontrol, as has been said if you get headshot standing around, your fault, if you get headshot running around randomly and being aware good sniper earned it.

The harder sniping is the less likely you will see a "sniper battlefield". I"m hoping for very difficult sniping mechanics, i'm also looking forward to sniping a lot.

[Fuel Truck]

I can't wait to OSK you guys with my sniper rifle

[Dreamcast]

Only allowing snipers the OSOK after much training would create an unfair scenario. Two snipers, one playing for a year the other a day. The guy playing for a day has NO CHANCE of killing the other guy if no one has any errors. The vet is going to kill him with one shot every time.

One of the main points of PS1 and they've said they want in PS2 is new players being equal to vet players. Yes vet players will get more variety, more option, but not capable of doing something as powerful as a OSOK so often. Things with cooldowns like OSs are a different story.

First of all, a person playing for a year will destroy a guy playing for a day...Thats the way it is in any game!

2nd of all Their will never be a situation of 1 n00b vs 1 veteran only....This is an MMO with a huge battlefield so that situation is not gonna happen...Their is always gonna be veterans and n00bs on boths sides.

Having said all of this havn't u even read what I wrote?

Once the person does unlock Headshots, he should sacrifice......Accuracy(sway when scoping),Recoil,bullets per clip(2-3),reload time,Armor(Makes yourself weak to headshots, meaning any sniper can kill you and of course weaker to any kind of bullets).

As you can see a sniper who picked to OSOK infantry...Will be vulnerable to OSOK by ANY SNIPER, Meaning any n00b to veteran sniper without OSOK could do it to those snipers who picked to OSOK because of weaker armor.

Also I include even more sacrifices....All this will make it tough to master.

Regular Snipers will be the best snipers for most since they do high damage and have way better accuracy.




Now I know the concern now is "WELL SOMEBODYZ IZ GONNA MAZTER IT AND BE OP, NOT FAIR".....Their is always somebody who masters something and is very good at it, that is borderline unfair to most players...sorry thats the way it is...but my solution, makes it hard for most to OSOK....which will make the battlefield require more skill.

[FIREk]

Why should a sniper have to spend a considerable amount of time unlocking basic gameplay mechanics such as bonus headshot damage?
Why should that sniper be expected to sacrifice anything other than versatility and durability (by having only basic armor), let alone being all but powerless at anything closer than medium-long range?

Just t clarify, do you want all snipers to have swaying sights, or only after they unlock being able to do bonus headshot damage?

First of all, a person playing for a year will destroy a guy playing for a day...Thats the way it is in any game!

This is an FPS, it's not WoW when a fresh character with 80 hit points can't compete with a geared-up Lv85 with 250k hit points...
In FPS games skill is the most important factor, especially since a top-level char is supposed to have a maximum statistical advantage of 20%, over a fresh character.
I've raped veterans early in many a game, right after I got the hang of the game, usually within a day or two.
Just how the opposite is "the way it is in any game" is beyond me. ;)

2nd of all Their will never be a situation of 1 n00b vs 1 veteran only....This is an MMO with a huge battlefield so that situation is not gonna happen...Their is always gonna be veterans and n00bs on boths sides.

And how is that relevant to anything? How is that relevant to gimping a new character, only to gimp that character further only to allow him to do what he is supposed to do - terrorize and kill stuff as efficiently as possible?

[EmperorNortonII]

I know everyone else is talking about PS compared to console FPses for the reres who play consoles, but maybe we should take a second to look at snipers in WW2 Online.

In WW2 Online, battles generally start with armored vehicles and vehicle-transported infantry seizing forward bases. This is all long-range vehicle combat and short-range infantry, if any, past the requisite sapper to blow the FB.

Then, you start to circle the town with armor, so you can keep enemy vehicles from getting to good defensive positions. Infantry go from point to point, capturing infantry spawns in hope of locking the enemy down to their vehicle spawn.

Not quite how base capture works in PS1, but rather close. TTK is fairly long until the middle of a heated fight in a town, and still often involves a minute or three of walking towards your target. However, unlike PS, where OSOK is largely relegated to vehicles, every weapon in WW2 Online kills on a headshot... and while the ballistics in WW2 Online are hardcore, if you're good with the standard infantry rifle, you can kill people out at 4-5 hundred yards. LMGs can do similar things at 2-3 hundred, and don't have the iron-sight limitations of the infantry rifles. Sniper rifles are for finding a good spot behind enemy lines, and aren't of much use in the meat of infantry fighting. Sappers are the first thing to be bled dry in a division. LMG and SMG follow sooner. Then sniper. Then mortar, grenadier, ATR, and then rifleman, of which there are more available than all of the rest of the classes combined... and all infantry combat is dodging from cover to cover, but that's because of vehicle machine guns, not snipers.

Vehicles trump infantry, except where ATRs can hide and pop vehicles from a low angle in the side/rear (you have to hit the crewmen inside of a vehicle to kill them, no vehicle HP). Aircraft trump most vehicles, and they are 1) Very hard to fly 2) Involve a large time to target and 3) Run out of fuel

Of course, aircraft have a very hard time spotting infantry, and really can't do much about infantry seizing an objective.

[Dreamcast]

Why should a sniper have to spend a considerable amount of time unlocking basic gameplay mechanics such as bonus headshot damage?
Why should that sniper be expected to sacrifice anything other than versatility and durability (by having only basic armor), let alone being all but powerless at anything closer than medium-long range?

Just t clarify, do you want all snipers to have swaying sights, or only after they unlock being able to do bonus headshot damage?


Again their's a difference between bonus headshot damage and OSOK......Im saying you should unlock OSOK.

The reason Im saying you should sacrifice these aspects is to make it harder to be a OSOK sniper, since so many people playing planetside dont like OSOK.

and all snipers should have swaying sights, but OSOK snipers should have even more sway.


This is an FPS, it's not WoW when a fresh character with 80 hit points can't compete with a geared-up Lv85 with 250k hit points...
In FPS games skill is the most important factor, especially since a top-level char is supposed to have a maximum statistical advantage of 20%, over a fresh character.
I've raped veterans early in many a game, right after I got the hang of the game, usually within a day or two.
Just how the opposite is "the way it is in any game" is beyond me.

In most cases a person who has been playing a game for a while will rape, a person who hasn't on the first day like you said in your original example....Any FPS game is like this. Their are exceptions but thats how it usually is since it takes time familiarize with the game and that 20% difference is a big difference when facing a n00b who never played.

and for the sniper scenerio I give you....If you were good enough, you should destroy a OSOK sniper on the game.....their was no imbalance what so ever.



And how is that relevant to anything? How is that relevant to gimping a new character, only to gimp that character further only to allow him to do what he is supposed to do - terrorize and kill stuff as efficiently as possible? Is relevant if you read the guy I responded to wrote.

Do what is the characters suppose to?...You mean OSOK?......Planetside 1 Snipers never did that.

Like I said a regular sniper will still have extra damage with headshots, he will still be a force to any infantry...he will still take away 65 of your health or whatever like the first planetside, so I don't see whats so gimp about them....

In fact the regular snipers will be way better to fight against moving targets since they are much easier guns to use than OSOK snipers.


Also regular snipers>OSOK sniper head to head since regular snipers have better accuracy,reload time,etc.....and OSOK snipers die in one shot.


Only the best should be allowed to OSOK, it should be a skill that takes time master IMO.

[Traak]

No OSK's, period.

UNLESS, you allow me to work, sweat, and strive to have OSK's for my Vanu AAmax. And OSK's for my TR Burster.

Making someone jump through hoops for something that is OP doesn't make it any less OP. Take the OS, for example. It was a novelty when it was begun. It was odiously common and OP by the time we were flooded with CR5's. Making OSK's available will lead to them being overabundant.

If not even a triple-shot from a jackhammer was a one-click kill, unless you were a cloaker, being able to do it from 900m isn't going to augment the game.

I would hate the game to turn into "Long distance snipefest with everyone else unable to run over ten feet of open ground without dying." No thanks.

Want that? Go "cert" Unreal Tournament, and instagib to your hear'ts content.

Oh, that's right, OSK's are only OMGKewlllzzzz when YOU have them and almost nobody ELSE does.

Which is the definition of OP.

OSK=fail.

[SuperMorto]

You should add the explanation of what the OSOK acronym is before posting? I just don't know ;)

[Traak]

The steady repeating of "find better cover" as a response to "we don't want overpowered snipers" isn't valid. Neither is "he will be immediately vaporized by a cloaker" etc. Making the few who are snipers able to kill anyone, anywhere, with one shot and no warning doesn't just unbalance the game, it ruins it. The rest of us don't want the game to consist of hiding 99.999999999999999999999999999999% of the time and the rest of the time dying to snipers 2.4km away.

Sniping was annoying enough in PS1. The idea is not to ruin the game for the vast majority of players so a few people can enjoy their stupidly overpowered weapons. Especially weapons that can strike from very long distances.

Was it great fun, really augmenting gameplay when a Flail or three were spamming the CY and Vpad? Oh, yes, fun for the dual-account, one-on-each-empire flail spammers, but how many others just quit playing?

Long distance instagib weapons are great for using in the real world. In PS, they just hinder a large number of people from enjoying the game for the benefit of very exceedingly few. As I said, if you have such a fetish for instagib, play Unreal Tournament in games where everyone has the same weapon.

But, as I said, an unfair and game-breaking advantage isn't as much fun when someone other than YOU has it. OSK sniping is like being a mugger who preys on blind people.

We want to be able to engage in combat, and support therefor. Not spend our time cowering behind cover to give some immature little MEMEMEMEME child the ability to reign over the battlespace.

[Lunarchild]

Well, let's see Traak, if I read your post correctly I think I should point you to another weapon that will one shot kill MULTIPLE people from similar distances as snipers, however they will also do so (and a lot more) at low ranges. Let me mention that it will be EASIER to kill people with this weapon than with a sniper rifle, especially with the physics in PlanetSide 2. Let me mention that this weapon also one shot killed multiple people in PlanetSide. Meet the main battle tank: not only is it easier to one shot kill with this, it is also harder to kill than any sniper. It does not require a headshot, or even a direct hit to kill a person in one shot with this weapon. And yet no-one seems to mind.

[Fuel Truck]

Well, let's see Traak, if I read your post correctly I think I should point you to another weapon that will one shot kill MULTIPLE people from similar distances as snipers, however they will also do so (and a lot more) at low ranges. Let me mention that it will be EASIER to kill people with this weapon than with a sniper rifle, especially with the physics in PlanetSide 2. Let me mention that this weapon also one shot killed multiple people in PlanetSide. Meet the main battle tank: not only is it easier to one shot kill with this, it is also harder to kill than any sniper. It does not require a headshot, or even a direct hit to kill a person in one shot with this weapon. And yet no-one seems to mind.

Good point, I'll start the pointless thread with a retarded poll about how to make them useless because I don't like it!! /end lil' trakky

[Traak]

You are comparing an MBT to an infantry soldier? Okay.

No, my thread about the merits of having the ability of any class of infantry to OSK snipers being an unlockable ability or an implant is a counterpoint to this. Some, as in those who are snipers, want OSK's. No one else does.

So, I turned it around so you could see how your arguments for snipers having the OP OSK capability look when turned around so everyone can OSK snipers, but snipers remain the same as in PS1, as far as range and damage.

Feel free to debate. You want sniper OSK's. Others may not want that, but, instead want snipers to be the ones that others can OSK, as a tradeoff for the increased range of being a sniper. Why should every other class of infantry be subject to the sniper having OSK? Why not the other way around instead?

[Captain B]

"Making the few who are snipers able to kill anyone, anywhere, with one shot and no warning doesn't just unbalance the game, it ruins it."

Just wanted to point out, snipers can't kill anyone "anywhere". Only in open field combat, same place tanks and aircraft and MAXes can drop infantry with similar impunity while simultaneously gaining ground. A sniper killing anyone in close quarters is a damn lucky sniper.

[Traak]

Gifting anyone in the game with point-target OSK is bad for the game as a whole.

PS was not created so no one could move anywhere without having to duck and cower to and from cover. It breaks the gameplay to have OSK's.

The snipers, of course, are lobbying for OSK's. No one should have OSK's. For those who are too blinded by selfishness to understand that, it means against the same class.

Of course tanks can instagib soldiers. But exalting any class of infantry to the god-like status of being able to deal out instant death? No. Not for Planetside. As I said, if you are so enamored of the idea, go play your games where everyone is OSK-capable. But those games aren't fun enough for you because they don't furnish you with an overwhelming long-distance advantage you are trying to pervert Planetside with.

Planetside wasn't created just so snipers would have a way of souring the whole open field. If you want to have more power in the open field, get a vehicle or plane. Handing you a kill button as a soldier is not the solution.

I also notice that this poll is also slanted, in not having the following options: Keep sniper range and damage like PS1, and No OSK's under any circumstances.

[Captain B]

Snipers don't hurt tanks, aircraft or MAXes (assuming these basics will remain in PS2). If they hurt MAXes, MAXes are too weak, not snipers being too strong (because then any infantry could dakka-dakka them into the ground with ease).

Long distance advantage? Yeeeessss... Against infantry. Encourages the use of vehicles and buggies and sommuh mah buses to get from A to B safely. For those on foot, cloaking and jumppacks increase maneuverability and flexibility to reach the objective in tact. For the rest, cover. Sniper rounds do not explode. You cannot blow up a dude behind a tree with a sniper round.

Take a deep breath. Honestly, you make it sound like your parents were killed by snipers and you've had all these years in a cave to brood over it. They aren't that bad. Not to mention "long distance" - it's already been mentioned by the devs that there's bullet trajectory. Simply putting the 6-year-old FPS cross-hairs onto a person and clicking isn't going to guarantee a hit, much less a head shot that can insta-kill. Deep breaths, now.

[BorisBlade]

Another thing to consider is how the CoF will work, will it be like PS1 where it had to "calm down" or is it like so many other awful games where its just a crosshair and you can line it up on the run if you were so inclined. Plus will there be one shot and then reload or are you gettin one shot kills and semi auto fire (which is completely absurd). Those two things alone make a HUGE difference.

Its one thing to get OSK's but have to reload after each shot and be sitting still taking a careful shot, its another to be able to go on a rapid killing spree or fire while moving like a certain other FPS we all mention too much.

[Traak]

Please refrain from emotionally-charged sarcasm and rhetoric. It makes you look childish and stupid.

And further demonstrates my point that OSK's are not good for the game overall, but just touted by childishly selfish people.

[Raka Maru]

The steady repeating of "find better cover" as a response to "we don't want overpowered snipers" isn't valid. Neither is "he will be immediately vaporized by a cloaker" etc. Making the few who are snipers able to kill anyone, anywhere, with one shot and no warning doesn't just unbalance the game, it ruins it. The rest of us don't want the game to consist of hiding 99.999999999999999999999999999999% of the time and the rest of the time dying to snipers 2.4km away.

Find better cover.

Don't expect to stroll around leisurely in a field while your squad pushes forward.


Sniping was annoying enough in PS1. The idea is not to ruin the game for the vast majority of players so a few people can enjoy their stupidly overpowered weapons. Especially weapons that can strike from very long distances.

Was it great fun, really augmenting gameplay when a Flail or three were spamming the CY and Vpad? Oh, yes, fun for the dual-account, one-on-each-empire flail spammers, but how many others just quit playing?

Long distance instagib weapons are great for using in the real world. In PS, they just hinder a large number of people from enjoying the game for the benefit of very exceedingly few. As I said, if you have such a fetish for instagib, play Unreal Tournament in games where everyone has the same weapon.

When I'm not sniping, I like to go seeking out enemy sniper nests. It's really called tactics. Calling a play style immature just 'cuz you're not trading MCG ammo across a short distance is short sighted and you talk about people not wanting to play, but you keep sending others to a different game.


But, as I said, an unfair and game-breaking advantage isn't as much fun when someone other than YOU has it. OSK sniping is like being a mugger who preys on blind people.

We want to be able to engage in combat, and support therefor. Not spend our time cowering behind cover to give some immature little MEMEMEMEME child the ability to reign over the battlespace.

...

[Jimmuc]

i can't think of one FPS game out of the many FPS games i've played where snipers ruled the battlefield over everyone else hmmm....


nope can't think of one

[Helwyr]

As a sniper some of the time in PS1 I wouldn't really want OSK in PS2, not without a lot of difficulty in getting that head shot. The price of being OPed is having all the fair-weather powergamers cramping your style, Didn't seem to bother the Aircav HA/AV crowd in PS1 but I'd rather take a pass on that. ...then again, my no.1 favorite means killing people was with a knife in PS1, so maybe I should be pushing for OPered sniping. :p

Hopefully Sniping is well balanced. This thread though and a few others on the issue I don't really get, some of the posts border on hysteria over sniping. Which I find ironic given there's no panic over various other circumstances that will get you killed near instantly with no or little means of response. Also in terms of balance it isn't really shots to kill that is a determining factor but time to kill, combined of course with other factors such as range, accuracy, bloom due to movement, etc.

Didn't bother voting in the poll.

[Captain B]

No kidding. You'd think with "anyone can cert leadership" and "orbital strikes are back in" you'd be seeing a thousand threads about the sky falling (literally, in this case) with everyone being able to summon orbitals (conjecture, of course, but no different than this). But no, instead we ask, what's the ultimate threat to game balance and will single-handedly conquer battle fields and storm bases?

Snipers.

Wow. Swing and a miss.

[Traak]

...you'd be seeing a thousand threads about the sky falling (literally, in this case)
That was funny, I have to admit.



...with everyone being able to summon orbitals (conjecture, of course, but no different than this). But no, instead we ask, what's the ultimate threat to game balance and will single-handedly conquer battle fields and storm bases?

Snipers.


Ah, but the big difference is that CR's don't have a clip or pack loaded with 20 orbital strikes that are fired and land instantaneously. They can't theoretically do 30 orbital strikes per minute, or whatever the ROF of a sniper weapon is in PS2. In PS1, it was 1 every 180 minutes, and it has about a five second fire-to-impact time for the person who wants to avoid it.

To be a similar level of threat, sniper headshots would have to have a five-second warning klaxon for the person who is being targeted, and only be able to be fired once every 180 minutes/avg. number of OS kills per OS.

That is a huge difference.

[Hamma]

I get the feeling you aren't a fan of Snipers Traak.. ;)

[Graywolves]

The sky won't be falling as much as it is now, you need to devote time into the leadership instead of combat.

But that's for another thread.

[Dreamcast]

Feel free to debate. You want sniper OSK's. Others may not want that, but, instead want snipers to be the ones that others can OSK, as a tradeoff for the increased range of being a sniper. Why should every other class of infantry be subject to the sniper having OSK? Why not the other way around instead?


Hmm thats actually what I been saying all along in a way....

Anybody with OSOK cert snipers should die with a regular snipers headshot and receive extra damage from any infantry(possibly get headshotted with certain guns).

Not only do OSOK snipers have to worry about snipers,infantry,ravens,cloaks,etc....

As you can see the game will be hard to OSOK.


Regular Snipers like the one ps1's will be the most used and the best for most situations since is easier to shoot moving targets etc.

[Gandhi]

"It will be hard" doesn't mean anything. Unless you intentionally build in a random element like a large base COF (which is stupid) people will get good at it. So when you're debating whether it's a good idea or not, assume people will be good at it, because sooner or later that'll be the reality of it.

A classic example of this are titans in EVE Online. They were totally overpowered when they were released, with the reasoning that "It'll be hard to own one". Fast forward a year or two and there were dozens of titans in the game, with every major engagement ending in 3 or 4 titans being fielded to wipe out everything in the area. They went through half a dozen passes with the nerf bat to try to balance them again.

Long story short, difficulty should never be used as a balancing tool. If you have to justify a gameplay idea with "Well, it'll be hard to do..." then it's not a good idea.

[xSlideShow]

I really don't think this is gonna be a big deal worst come to worse learn to sweave :P He can't head shot you if he can't hit you. Head shots aren't that easy to do. Yeah there will be a few people who can do it regularly but you'll die to them one time and that'll be it cause there will be broadcast giving away their position like that second. It would actually give me a reason to use the sniper rifles I hate the ones in the original PS I felt the pulsar was a better sniper XD

On top of all that it's not like they are gonna be machine guns if they are anything like the PS rifles then they'll have to reload after every shot so again just move. I'm sure they aren't giving the Heavy Scout Rifle the ability to headshot. Maybe they are though, still wouldn't bother me to much just gotta dodge.

[NapalmEnima]

I'm sure they aren't giving the Heavy Scout Rifle the ability to headshot. Maybe they are though, still wouldn't bother me to much just gotta dodge.

Additional head-shot damage and OSOK are Quite Different.

We also don't know if locational damage will only kick in after you get through their shield. A high-max/low-recharge shield might be quite good at keeping that first sniper round on the outside of your skull, and chances are it'll be hard to tell what kind of shield you have... though there may well be a visual cue.

[xSlideShow]

I would think it would still be 1 shot for the head... cause I would also think without the shield it would be 1 shot anyway for the sniper. Just thinkin though nothin major.

The HSR thing was more of a joke... cause it's like 4 shot kill or somethin? I dunno gun sucked didn't use it. So if they gave that a 1 shot kill then people would pretty much only use that sniper cause of the faster refire. Why would use a Bolt Driver when you could miss? HSR you can just spam fire at the head. Just thinkin again I have no information/logical reasoning behind my statements.

[Tigersmith]

QuickScoping :( I hope not

But im open to these one shot kills. Its a Modern Shooter. It kinda has to happen imo

[Kouza]

I forgot which game I played but, it basically negated the sniper by making the following restrictions:
1. You cannot shoot with a sniper rifle unless you have it scoped.
2. You cannot use the scope until a animation (maybe one second) NOT LONG. finished.

TTK from the regular rifles in most games would allow for the sniper to die before he gets his OSOK off... EVEN if he does manage to attempt the shot it becomes hard as well... (It becomes harder with more zoom)

[Xyntech]

If they do end up having OSK's, maybe they could put in an anti sniper implant, sort of like how darklight was an anti infiltrator implant in the first game.

The implant could temporarily alter your shield so that the shield has to be completely destroyed BEFORE any damage can happen to the players health. Activate the implant, run to the next bit of cover and recharge. With that implant turned on, every weapon in the game would be turned into a minimum of a 2 shot kill weapon. Tank shells, boomers, sniper rifles, etc. It would still be pretty balanced because multi shot weapons wouldn't be affected much, you would have to be expecting to be OSK'd in advance and it would only last a certain amount of time before you have to recharge the implant.

This isn't meant to be a solution for people who don't want to ever see a Planetside sniper get a one shot kill, this is more of a balance suggestion to help counter snipers.

[Captain B]

Most games with sniper rifles have no reticle and the shooting area is HUGE by default, much more so when moving. As far as the "it being hard isn't a good enough reason" argument, yeah, actually, it is. Unlike the example of EVE Titans - something anyone can get with time and money - being a sniper doesn't work that way.

I don't care if you put in 100 hours a week becoming a sniper, if you're playing the game on an outdated piece of equipment where the slightest lag will completely dissemble any notion of accuracy, you will NEVER become an excellent sniper, only hoping for the obvious kills of static/afk targets (which is more their fault than sniper's instakilling headshots) and lucky shots.

Gaming is truly one of those "arts" where the carpenter CAN blame his tools.

Snipers have their roles, just like tanks, air, heavy infantry, jump infantry (SPEHSS) and so on. They excel in one area, make due in some and suck in others.

tl;dr: Snipers -
http://www.trimblecrafts.com/images/Put_on_big_boy_briefs_deal_with_it_sign.jpg

[Traak]

I'm not against headshots. I'm against OSK's. No matter if you have to stand on your head, do a certain chant, order a special pink rifle from Sony to use as a game controller, and run laps around the local fitness park.

OSK's are just not desirable, to anyone but snipers. And snipers are no more a large part of the game than, say, colorblind people.

[xSlideShow]

Most games with sniper rifles have no reticle and the shooting area is HUGE by default, much more so when moving. As far as the "it being hard isn't a good enough reason" argument, yeah, actually, it is. Unlike the example of EVE Titans - something anyone can get with time and money - being a sniper doesn't work that way.

I don't care if you put in 100 hours a week becoming a sniper, if you're playing the game on an outdated piece of equipment where the slightest lag will completely dissemble any notion of accuracy, you will NEVER become an excellent sniper, only hoping for the obvious kills of static/afk targets (which is more their fault than sniper's instakilling headshots) and lucky shots.

Gaming is truly one of those "arts" where the carpenter CAN blame his tools.

Snipers have their roles, just like tanks, air, heavy infantry, jump infantry (SPEHSS) and so on. They excel in one area, make due in some and suck in others.

tl;dr: Snipers -
http://www.trimblecrafts.com/images/Put_on_big_boy_briefs_deal_with_it_sign.jpg
^^This

I'm not against headshots. I'm against OSK's. No matter if you have to stand on your head, do a certain chant, order a special pink rifle from Sony to use as a game controller, and run laps around the local fitness park.

OSK's are just not desirable, to anyone but snipers. And snipers are no more a large part of the game than, say, colorblind people.

I actually prefer the idea of snipers having a 1 shot kill.. 1 it adds more realism and 2 I don't think it's fair for them not to have one. Personally I hated how my outfit couldn't have accurate fire support. Why? Cause it was better to stick that sniper with another gun than to tell him to sit up there on a mountain and feed info.

[Dreamcast]

I'm not against headshots. I'm against OSK's. No matter if you have to stand on your head, do a certain chant, order a special pink rifle from Sony to use as a game controller, and run laps around the local fitness park.

OSK's are just not desirable, to anyone but snipers. And snipers are no more a large part of the game than, say, colorblind people.

OSOK actually harm snipers....

In case u havn't noticed snipers are cloaks apparently....which means they will die with 1 sniper shot.....A sniper is gonna be their worst nightmare.

Now the infantry on the other hand...Im not sure if they will be prone to OSOK. Since the game does have bullet drop, perhaps OSOK regular troops will be in if a person picks certain skills which will effect accuracy but help damage thus balancing it and make it hard to OSOK.

[Kilmoran]

Isn't the sacrifice... innate to the whole customizable weapons and side grade options and all that?

Edit: So yeah, i voted for "I have a better idea". And that idea is... let's let the weapon specialization/side grade balancing do the talking on this. A sniper rifle (or any weapon) shouldn't have an instant, automatic OSOK. There is nothing saying a Shotgun to the face, properly specced for max damage, isn't also a OSOK. I don't think that there should be a question that a beastly sniper rifle designed from lethality and perhaps accuracy over all else shouldn't have that very benefit. The only issue i see here is faction specific rifles interfering with this mechanic.

All of that being said, just as a note, those of you saying OSOK sniper rifles should lose accuracy... all i have to say is that makes it pointless. Why have an inaccurate rifle that is super lethal? It becomes far less of a sniper rifle, and far more of a field rifle with a slow fire rate. The whole act of sniping is based on accuracy, and generally the only reason you lose that is for fire rage, not for power. You usually want more accuracy for more power, but less fire rate/more recoil/less clip size/ less ammo in general.

[Shogun]

In case u havn't noticed snipers are cloaks apparently....which means they will die with 1 sniper shot.....A sniper is gonna be their worst nightmare.



in case you haven´t noticed this is a necro. so maybe at the time, that thread was active, it wasn´t even known that snipers will be also cloakers

[Vancha]

Here's the problem with bumping a thread from 9 months ago...My previous posts no longer represent my current opinions.

The amount of variables make this a "wait 'til beta" issue. Hypothetically, headshots could be ridiculously OP or a complete non-issue depending on the speed, flow and proportions of gameplay.

[Kilmoran]

in case you haven´t noticed this is a necro. so maybe at the time, that thread was active, it wasn´t even known that snipers will be also cloakers

Damn got in to a necro again... bah.