[HARDWARE] PS2 & PhysX

[Sentrosi]

I have a technical question in regards to this part of Kotaku.com's article on Planetside 2;Coupled with the power of NVIDIA PhysX, it sounds like Planetside 2 has a firm technical foundation to build upon.
I haven't been keeping up on my video card tech for a while now, but this sort of worries me from a Radeon 6850 owner. Allay my fears by telling me that PhysX is now hard coded into the games to take advantage of both flavors of video cards.
If this is the case, then I'm going to have to seriously consider a massive upgrade to my existing system (E8400, 6850, 4Gb RAM). But I'll want the best hardware available that I can afford once the announcement comes out.

[NCLynx]

So what's the question?

I've been putting off building a new settup as well because I want to get relatively the best I can get.

[Sentrosi]

Is PhysX exclusively catering to nVidia cards or is there code within PhysX to also be used with Radeons?

[Vancha]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36496&page=5

I'm fairly sure PhysX is still much better on Nvidia cards, but they've said they want PS2 to be able to run on 5-year-old rigs in which case your GPU and RAM should be more than fine...I'm not sure about the CPU though.

Edit: PhysX does work on AMD cards now, just not nearly as well.

[bjorntju1]

Well i thought Smedley said in a Q and A that PhysX would work on all graphic cards brands. However it will run better on an Nvidia card.

[NCLynx]

If you have an nVidia card it runs off of that, if you have an ATI card Physx runs off of your CPU which can slow ya down a lot

[Sentrosi]

Yeah, I've been wondering if it's worth it to put a Q9550 in this rig and call it a day until I can get into the stratosphere of processors. But I still want to get the best that I can afford.

[Volw]

Get a cheap nvidia card to run PhysX. Problem solved ;-)

[Bruttal]

Then i guess you would just have to toss in something like http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=physx+card&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=gKP&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivnsfd&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1680&bih=888&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=17390225901143642236&sa=X&ei=wUkgTt-JM4ydgQf6kt3jBQ&ved=0CGYQ8wIwAQ

[Vancha]

Then i guess you would just have to toss in something like http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=physx+card&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=gKP&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivnsfd&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1680&bih=888&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=17390225901143642236&sa=X&ei=wUkgTt-JM4ydgQf6kt3jBQ&ved=0CGYQ8wIwAQ

That seems very expensive for what it does? You'd probably be better off buying a new GPU.

[basti]

Get a cheap nvidia card to run PhysX. Problem solved ;-)

Doesnt work anymore.


Then i guess you would just have to toss in something like http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=physx+card&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=gKP&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivnsfd&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1680&bih=888&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=17390225901143642236&sa=X&ei=wUkgTt-JM4ydgQf6kt3jBQ&ved=0CGYQ8wIwAQ

Waste of money.


Just wait, chill, smoke a pot, and see. Physx will run native on ATI cards by the time we get PS2 release.

[Jennyboo]

Well i thought Smedley said in a Q and A that PhysX would work on all graphic cards brands. However it will run better on an Nvidia card.

You are correct Smed said the only advantage is that the Nvidia card run slightly better,however other video cards will work fine. I remember being in the room when he said that seeing as a upgrade for my computer is coming was important for me to know :D

[Sentrosi]

Good, that brings a sense of relief. I may just get a Crossfire capable board then and shop for an i5/XF capable board then with plans on purchasing another 6950 in the future.

[basti]

I have a better idea: Sell the red crap and go for the green guys. That actually gives you performance rather than some thing in your machine that doesnt do much.

But thats the fanboy in me speaking. ^^

[Spark]

I'm pretty sure it's been said that it won't be using Hardware PhysX(?), so what brand you have won't matter.

[Desoxy]

I have a better idea: Sell the red crap and go for the green guys. That actually gives you performance rather than some thing in your machine that doesnt do much.

But thats the fanboy in me speaking. ^^

The green guys surely have less annoying bugs in their drivers.. :rolleyes: (measured in how often you have to roll back to an old version)

[Rbstr]

Doesnt work anymore.
Waste of money.
Just wait, chill, smoke a pot, and see. Physx will run native on ATI cards by the time we get PS2 release.

What do you mean, doesn't work any more? All the new-ish nvidia cards support hardware physX.

I do agree about the PhyX standalone card, though. No point in dropping $150 on it when you can get a good full GPU for not much more money, if any.

(I've also never heard smoke a pot? You mean a bowl?)

On the topic of cpu/gpu physX, those w/o a background can read: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-physx-hack-amd-radeon,2764.html


I'm a green guy, personally...but that more has to do with CUDA's availability than anything else.

[basti]

What do you mean, doesn't work any more? All the new-ish nvidia cards support hardware physX.

I do agree about the PhyX standalone card, though. No point in dropping $150 on it when you can get a good full GPU for not much more money, if any.

(I've also never heard smoke a pot? You mean a bowl?)

On the topic of cpu/gpu physX, those w/o a background can read: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-physx-hack-amd-radeon,2764.html


I'm a green guy, personally...but that more has to do with CUDA's availability than anything else.

Since one of the newer drivers, Physx does not work with Nvidia cars if you have another, non nvidia card in your machine.

[Rbstr]

I didn't take that comment to mean in "addition to the current card, buy a cheap nvidia card"

[kaffis]

Is PhysX exclusively catering to nVidia cards or is there code within PhysX to also be used with Radeons?
nVidia cards will apply hardware acceleration to the PhsyX code. Other computers will not; instead, they'll use CPU cycles more heavily to perform the same functions.

The game, including the PhysX code, will run on any Windows DirectX system (of whatever version of DirectX the game will end up requiring). nVidia cards with PhysX acceleration support will ease the load on other components, potentially removing bottlenecks in some hardware configurations.

[Volw]

Since one of the newer drivers, Physx does not work with Nvidia cars if you have another, non nvidia card in your machine.

That's gay. Isn't there a hack to enable it?

[nathanebht]

PhysX has always been about extra cosmetic effects that don't do one thing to gameplay. Doubt PS2 is going to be different.

But I hadn't read much about PhysX recently, so found some up-to-date stuff.

http://physxinfo.com/news/ has this nice video of PhysX in action with comparisons of high and low settings.

GPU PhysX in Alice: Madness Returns (http://youtu.be/m1sI8ovRIFY)

Benchmarks of the same game using an AMD video card.

http://benchmark3d.com/alice-madness-returns-benchmark

Also looked at other benchmarks on physxinfo.com. Seems likely you'll need a top rate Nvidia card or a 4 core CPU when using an AMD video card to maintain a good framerate in PS2 with all of the nice PhysX stuff flying.

[Zulthus]

I have an AMD Athlon quad-core and a Radeon 5870... I'm all set for PS2 when it comes out. pimp:

[Spark]

PhysX has always been about extra cosmetic effects that don't do one thing to gameplay. Doubt PS2 is going to be different.


They mentioned that PhysX will be used for vehicle movement and bullet ballistics, it seems pretty incorporated into the gameplay. They said they're going this route because a former SOE employee develops PhysX allowing them to get top-level support when needed and because PhysX is more robust than it's competitors. The fact that PhysX isn't being used solely for those cosmetic FPS eating effects is probably the reason why it won't matter what brand of card you use in regards to performance.

[nathanebht]

They mentioned that PhysX will be used for vehicle movement and bullet ballistics, it seems pretty incorporated into the gameplay. They said they're going this route because a former SOE employee develops PhysX allowing them to get top-level support when needed and because PhysX is more robust than it's competitors. The fact that PhysX isn't being used solely for those cosmetic FPS eating effects is probably the reason why it won't matter what brand of card you use in regards to performance.

Good point about the vehicle movement and bullet ballistics. Hope PhysX is also used for collision. These will likely all be done using the CPU with limited realism.

PhysX is known for those extra nice effects you can see in that Alice video. The floor tiles shattering were quite good looking. However, all that stuff flying around on each hit is all cosmetic, not touching the gameplay. Since developers can't count on you having an Nvidia card or a 4 core CPU, they are prevented from doing what we'd all like to see. The 4-5 year old PC target for PS2 is the problem.

[Atranox]

Do not confuse the PhysX engine with GPU-accelerated PhysX.

GPU-acceleration on PhysX requires an NVIDIA card for decent performance and full effects, while the engine itself does not as it runs exclusively on the CPU regardless of video card brand. Based on SOE's description, it sounds like the physics engine itself i being used, not the GPU-acceleration.

Video card brand will most likely not matter.

[nathanebht]

Do not confuse the PhysX engine with GPU-accelerated PhysX.

GPU-acceleration on PhysX requires an NVIDIA card for decent performance and full effects, while the engine itself does not as it runs exclusively on the CPU regardless of video card brand. Based on SOE's description, it sounds like the physics engine itself i being used, not the GPU-acceleration.

Video card brand will most likely not matter.

Thats a clear way of stating things. SOE can't be planning for the game to require GPU accelerated PhysX which is it's standout feature.

The 2nd page of those benchmarks using only an AMD 6950 card is informative. http://benchmark3d.com/alice-madness-returns-benchmark/2

At least for this Alice game, AMD video card, PhysX set to high and a 4 core CPU runs fine.

[bkx]

Don't worry. PhysX is mostly a marketing ploy by Nvidia. It slightly lessens the load on your CPU from physics calculations, but if you have a decent CPU you'll never notice the difference.

[Gandhi]

After resubbing and playing a little Planetside again last night, I'm really looking forward to the new physics. I forgot just how bad they were in the original game. Every vehicle feels like it's driving through molasses and jumping feels more like your character goes into Matrix mode and just sort of floats for a while.

[Goku]

Gandhi you hit it right on the head with that one. lol

[Hamma]

:lol:

[Bruttal]

i just wanted to post something to this thread for anyone else kinda intrested in physx info http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQu55bciMt4&feature=related

[Espion]

If anyone with an ATI is really that worried you can still get dedicated physx cards for pretty cheap