Re: Planetside 2 Store - 10 minutes of required viewing for SOE

[Vancha]

I felt this deserved it's own thread.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/3689-Microtransactions

Arguably every Extra Credits video ever made is required viewing for SOE, but this is the newest one and it seems very well timed with the recent discussions about how RMT should be handled in PS2.

[Bags]

I hate his voice so much.

Anyhow, here's the TL : DR of the video:

1.) Don't sell power, sell convenience / looks
2.) Don't sell joke crap in a serious game (not from the video...)
3.) Get as many people playing as possible
4.) Allow alternative methods of acquisition, even if slow
5.) Ponies

And yes, Sony should watch.

[CutterJohn]

I think he worries way too much about players being butthurt about something they are getting for free. Though he's probably right. Gotta love that well developed sense of entitlement in those playing something for free.

[Ranik Ortega]

I think he worries way too much about players being butthurt about something they are getting for free. Though he's probably right. Gotta love that well developed sense of entitlement in those playing something for free.

I think that vid is in response mainly to CCP. And believe me the meltdown directed at CCP was well deserved if you kept up with the leaks that occured and all the communication botch ups that followed. :rolleyes:

[CutterJohn]

I saw a bunch of whining about trivial nonsense, and people taking a game far, far, far, far, far, far, far(i can keep this up a while), far, far, far too seriously.

[Ranik Ortega]

I saw a bunch of whining about trivial nonsense, and people taking a game far, far, far, far, far, far, far(i can keep this up a while), far, far, far too seriously.

Then you weren't paying much attention :rolleyes:

[Vancha]

I think he worries way too much about players being butthurt about something they are getting for free. Though he's probably right. Gotta love that well developed sense of entitlement in those playing something for free.
The point is that treating the "free" players well is better off for the game. If you fuck them over, the profit from an unfair RMT system is outweighed by the loss of the "free" players, who not only keep the game alive but are more likely to become RMT customers the longer they play.

[krnasaur]

That guy nailed it. Dead on what microtransactions should be.

[EightEightEight]

Amazing Video If the people in the US would take the info from this video I think more people would pay the free2play games

[LordReaver]

They have already made it clear that they are going to do it right.



I prefer to buy everything all at once. I don't want to have to deal with making transactions every time I find something I like.

I would like to see games try a level system. You start off with the bronze level. Pretty much works the way trials work now. You get very limited access, but it lets you peek at the game. Then you have a silver level. It gives you a little more access than the trial version. Good for casual people who don't really care about the game. Then you have the gold version, which gives you full access.

This gives people the option to really put only how much money they want into the game. It's the difference between test driving a car from a lot, to renting a car, to buying one.

[Malorn]

Good video.

I think it actually has good value for us as well as SOE. Players around here are used to the subscription model and many of us have fears over microtransactions, mainly due to the fear of being scammed into paying more money than we think we should be paying. We're all certainly willing to pay for stuff, but we're also used to knowing the costs up-front as opposed to having the hidden cost. Of course the real 'hidden cost' is when power is put into the mix, because then you have to pay to compete and that changes everything.

The video makes good points about why free-to-play is good and how more players helps the health of the game. I'm in complete agreement there as I've said in other posts.

Something the game didn't mention is that the younger players that don't have cash wont' always be that way. Sometimes college players get jobs (which affects play time, thus helping reinforce the value of paying money for convenience), and college players eventually graduate and start earning a lot more money with which they can feel free to blow on your game. I was in college during PS1 and was a bit tight on cash, while now it is a much different story. Lifestyles and economic situations will change with players.

Smed seems to be aware of this already though, and he has indicated several times, including an interview here with PSU that they will not be selling power and discussed the the 'free to play elements'. The video does a good job of describing the real values.

Good point hitting home about convenience though. Cert training speed, experience accrual rate, and services like custom outfit decals are all great targets for microtransactions. You don't require any of those to be effective in the game and have balance.

Of course I already said most of this in the Business Model thread :)

[Soothsayer]

2.) Don't sell joke crap in a serious game (not from the video...)


Yeah, I turn off pumpkin heads/santa hats at the earliest opportunity.

[Lartnev]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/3689-Microtransactions

Excellent video, thanks for sharing :thumbsup:. I want a micro-transaction-raptor plushie. :)

Did anyone else watch the "Never split you player base" and think of Core Combat?

And yeah, I think what I've heard from SOE so far is they've got the microtransactions stuff on the right path.

[artifice]

Sony has already proven with EQ2X that they have no freaking clue on how to run a f2p game while EQ2 has shown us that they will milk us for money even in a subscription fee game.

[Hamma]

Care to provide examples for those who don't play that game? :)

[artifice]

Care to provide examples for those who don't play that game? :)

In EQ2X, you are basically restricted in everything. You are limited in the amount of platinum you can have, you have to pay real money to use the the broker, you can only choose a handful of races and classes, and other stuff. The only way to get rid of all these restrictions is to pay $15 per month (so much for f2p).

You also literally buy power out of the item shop. More than any other F2P game I have seen.

Also, unlike other F2P games, you cannot earn the item shop currency (Station Cash) in game.

Basically, if you watch that movie above and took the list of everything not to do, SOE pretty much does it all, and to extremes.

Regular Everquest 2 isn't nearly as bad of course, but you can buy stuff like +100% experience potions.

[Hamma]

Well I dont think buying shorter training times or XP bonuses are buying power really.

But besides that it looks very much like what LoTRO did. EQ2X seems to be the extreme side of things in terms of micro transactions, hopefully they will take what they learned from that and tone it down a bit in PS2. From what I've heard I don't foresee EQ2x happening in PlanetSide.

[artifice]

Well I dont think buying shorter training times or XP bonuses are buying power really.

But besides that it looks very much like what LoTRO did. EQ2X seems to be the extreme side of things in terms of micro transactions, hopefully they will take what they learned from that and tone it down a bit in PS2. From what I've heard I don't foresee EQ2x happening in PlanetSide.

Er, I meant you can literally buy items out of the cash shop. All crafted items can be bought in EQ2X with real money.

[Skorne]

I think buying your way to quicker training is definitely buying power especially when you can actually gain up to a 20% advantage 1 on 1 in PS2. Might as well condone stat padding too because they are both ways of artificially speeding up skill/unlock gain with less effort than everyone else.

If it's in the game I won't be.

[Lunarchild]

I don't mind them selling speedups, however they should not do so at launch! Actually, they should sell them per "tier", allowing people to speed up low level certs when the majority of the players have them and grading up with that. This will ensure that it is indeed selling convenience rather than power.

Other than that, I know PurrfectStorm watched it: @PurrfectStorm: Great video! =]... (https://twitter.com/PurrfectStorm/status/91635536304939008):

[Traak]

Can I plunk down 10 grand and become CR12 Master of the Universe, or even a Dev?

Oh, that's right, just going to Fan Faire gave you CR5... Okay, fifty bucks then .

:)

[Lunarchild]

Can I plunk down 10 grand and become CR12 Master of the Universe, or even a Dev?

Oh, that's right, just going to Fan Faire gave you CR5... Okay, fifty bucks then .

:)

I'm sure they'll make someone available for you to bounce dev ideas to for a week if you hand them 10 000$ for it ^^

[Malorn]

Well all we have to go on at this point is what they're telling us.

Smed is telling us clearly "we will not sell power."

So you can either believe him or not. If you don't believe him I dont' really know what to tell you. Clearly you have the fear of them lying to us. Because they did something different in the past doesn't mean what they're telling us now isn't true.

SOE has jaded many people in the past by mismanaging things, I'll give you that. Perhaps a weak economy, having to lay off a bunch of people, and not being the dominant player in the market has caused them to look at things differently. Necessity is the mother of invention, and all we can do at this point is believe what they're telling us is true unless we have a reason not to. Did they ever tell us that they weren't going to sell power in the EQ store? Is that why you don't believe them now? Or are you simply going on the fact that they did it before? Its not uncommon to make mistakes the first time you jump into something and learn from it.

On my own forums I put up a poll where I asked folks what they thought about PS2, and I also asked the same question with a bunch of other folks. The majority impression is that PS2 looks great, but they look at SOE's track record and have an overwhelming fear that they either won't deliver on what they're telling us or they'll screw it up in some other way. I have a little of that fear, but I'm also a true planetside fanboi so I will believe it out of sheer hope because I have nothing to lose by believing them. I have a lot to lose by dismissing the game before I even see it in action, and I have a lot to lose by not contributing to feedback, so here I am doing that.

And as Hamma said, selling leveling time isn't selling power. It's selling convenience, which is a great thing to sell. You don't have to buy that convenience and you will be fine.

[Hamma]

I should also point out how Smed was very insistent on getting the news out that they will NOT sell power, you can't post that in text. :p

What's funny is the people that go "It's SOE" also would say "It's EA" or "It's Blizzard" few game companies seem to be able to escape people saying that crap. :ugh:

[Bags]

Blizzard doesn't sell power. At least, not to my knowledge.

[Forsaken One]

I want to know if its going to be possible to sub. and if so. whats going to be the difference of subs and non subs? also will subs have free unlimited access to the customize stuff sold in the store?

[Hamma]

Blizzard doesn't sell power. At least, not to my knowledge.

I'm not referring to this specifically I am just referring to in general. People love that statement.

"I'm really excited for Game X but sadly it's being developed by company Y"

Fill in the blanks for any game in existence :lol:

[Sifer2]

I'm not referring to this specifically I am just referring to in general. People love that statement.

"I'm really excited for Game X but sadly it's being developed by company Y"

Fill in the blanks for any game in existence :lol:


Yeah except in SOE's case the reputation for screwing stuff up is a lot more justified. Some would ask how you could **** up an MMO based on Star Wars probably one the most valuable IP's of all time. They did find a way. Unless we want to buy into the it was LucasArts they imposed their will on SOE's vision excuse.


Honestly i'm willing to give them another chance just cause Planetside 2 sounds for the most part awesome. But i'm still skeptical. Especially in regards to cash shops since I have never met a cash shop I liked. Sadly they are becoming as standard a feature in MMO's as group chat almost. So in this case I guess I don't have much of a choice except to continue to ignore the modern MMO genre or put up with it for this game. I wont for long though if it sucks.


I also laughed at people above saying the speed up wasn't selling power. One guy said it should just be disabled at launch. Cause I guess its ok so long as we vet players can get our leveling out of the way first so no one can pay for a 20% boost over us.

[Malorn]

I'm not referring to this specifically I am just referring to in general. People love that statement.

"I'm really excited for Game X but sadly it's being developed by company Y"

Fill in the blanks for any game in existence :lol:

Very true. Longtime fans dislike the developer because inevitably at some poing in the game's lifetime the develoepr does a few things the player doesn't agree with.

Funny thing about WoW - people used to have huge regard for Blizzard as being high-quality pre-WoW. They released a stellar MMO that set the standard for all others. Now there are people so jaded to Blizzard that they flat out deny ever even playing WoW as if it is some sort badge of honor to not be tainted by having played that game. It is now cool to have not played WoW...blows my mind.

[Hamma]

Gamers are a strange breed. :lol:

[Lartnev]

Now there are people so jaded to Blizzard that they flat out deny ever even playing WoW as if it is some sort badge of honor to not be tainted by having played that game. It is now cool to have not played WoW...blows my mind.

I've never played WoW :P~

If you're going to look at SOE's track record for micro-transactions you should look at Free Realms because the other games have had their f2p nature tagged on after launch. That's different to designing a game with micro-transactions in mind from the start.

At the end of the day Smed's been pretty tight lipped about the business model so we should wait for more details before predicting the sky will fall.