BFRs and the centerpiece of the battle.

[Xaine]

However BFRs actually turned out, i liked the idea they had behind them.

A giant, very powerfull unit on a long cooldown that was slow, sluggish but hit very hard and had a lot of health.

Back in the day, when you saw a BFR on your side - it was a very positive thing. It was almost like a banner for your forces. You knew the area around it was going to be pretty safe and that alot of your army was going to be around it. It became the backbone of the push, something to protect and support and in turn, something that would protect and support you. It added to the gameplay, promoted even more teamwork.

The problem was, they became (in my opinion) way too common and way too weak. Some clown jumping out of a mossie with a deci should not be able to bring it down, but then again, not everyone and their friend bob should be able to have one. They became something like a main battle tank, but with slightly different strengths/weaknesses - which is fine, but i don't think its the direction that they should be taken in.

Before i get flamed here, i'm not asking for BFRs back - at least not the sort we know of.

I'd like a unit that would take alot of certs/time to unlock and only be available to 5/10 people per empire at once. Have a way of selecting the pilots of these machines that is fair and rewards time/dedication/skill. As a very loose example, each day the Mag/Vanguard/Prowler drivers/gunners kills/assists with their tanks are tracked. The top 5 gunners and top 5 drivers will gain access to this unit for the next 24 hours. The next day it starts over again. As i said, a loose example, but you get the idea.

I feel this unit should have a long cooldown, lets say 3-4 hours but be very powerfull. Not overpowered, it should have weaknesses like being slow and the need to be defended (a whole group of clowns with decis should be able to take one out :)) but it should be very good. It could be a tank with a load of gunner seats on it (Baneblade from Warhammer 40k anyone?), or something like a cross between the GG and an AC130, or something else along this line.

This is sort of a napkin idea, and i could develop it more in my mind - but i think this sort of thing would be a nice addition, giving even more incentive to kill the enemy and some friendly competition between outfits. Possibly have one for aircav as well?

What do you all think? :)

[Volw]

way too weak

Stop taking whatever you're on!

Not going to happen. The devs don't want BFRs, players don't want BFRs - even announcing them to be in, would probably cause a vast majority of PS players not to purchase PS2.

BFRs killed PS1 and yet, you want them more powerful. Good luck with that.

[Headrattle]

BFRs still don't work. Mainly because they have a high effectiveness to low teamwork to low skill ratio. I don't mind reavers, for example, though they are powerful and one seated because there are clear countermeasures to get rid of them. I don't mind the tanks or other team vehicles because they require teamwork to be effective. BFRs got rid of all that.

So... No. Unless they are just treated as another vehicle. Large robots aren't a bad thing if done right. Hell, even give them all that firepower, just make them easy to kill or disable. Make them balanced is my point. So, no I don't agree with you because I don't like the idea of a Death Star unit even if it respawns once every hour to someone who talks really nice to the Devs or whatever.

[MgFalcon]

NO!

They FINALLY killed BFR's for PS2 after 6 years of horrible consequences in PS1.

NO NEW BFR TYPE SHIT!

How dare you bring this up, Sir.

>: (

[Xaine]

Fair enough. I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want it. I didn't like BFRs the way they were either, i just liked the idea behind them.

[morf]

Ban this guy plz.

[Headrattle]

Yes. Giant robots are cool. I question their viability on the battlefield, but they are cool. Power suits make sense, but a giant robot with one of the weakest points right there for the shooting and the very nature of that weakpoint is that if you destroy it the whole thing comes crashing down but that same nature requires that weakpoint to have little armor because it will be moving the most? Bad idea. It is like putting monster truck tires on a tank and then fill those tires with gas.

But they are cool. I will admit that.

[Tool]

Stop taking whatever you're on!

Not going to happen. The devs don't want BFRs, players don't want BFRs - even announcing them to be in, would probably cause a vast majority of PS players not to purchase PS2.

BFRs killed PS1 and yet, you want them more powerful. Good luck with that.

Before i get flamed here, i'm not asking for BFRs back - at least not the sort we know of.

:rolleyes:

The developers who made BFRs probably felt the same way you do. In concept they sounded great and there were a lot of requests for a more heavy tank. We could go back and forth on why BFRs failed but you touched on one key aspect, which was availability.

Getting imprinted didn't take very long and was not difficult at all. The proliferation of players who could use them really showed thier (BFRs) flaws in gameplay.

BFRs representing their respective empires, almost like a huge banner in battle was never something I even thought about until you mentioned it. It was hard because everytime I saw one in game I always looked in disgust and annoyance. In retrospect however, they did seem to fit that role but not in a real positive way.

It would be nice to have those flagship vehicles that players really rally behind when they enter the battle. But how you can achieve that while still maintaining balance is something I can't imagine being very easy. Picture being an Imperial Guard soldier in the 40k universe engaged in a long, bloody battle with no hope in sight. Then seeing that massive Baneblade tank come into battle, xeno guts everywhere.
But anyone playing on the other side without equal footing would probably think, "wtf mate, hax."

[Headrattle]

It would be nice to have those flagship vehicles that players really rally behind when they enter the battle. But how you can achieve that while still maintaining balance is something I can't imagine being very easy. Picture being an Imperial Guard soldier in the 40k universe engaged in a long, bloody battle with no hope in sight. Then seeing that massive Baneblade tank come into battle, xeno guts everywhere.
But anyone playing on the other side without equal footing would probably think, "wtf mate, hax."

Have you read The Armour of Contempt? In the Planetfall Chapters they have Titans (another giant walking robot) from a soldiers point of view.

[Tool]

Have you read The Armour of Contempt? In the Planetfall Chapters they have Titans (another giant walking robot) from a soldiers point of view.

Unfortunately I haven't read any 40k books yet, usually most of my reading is relegated to work or research currently. :(

[Traak]

Just because something requires a lot of (insert whatever skill/time/certs/whatever cost here) to get, doesn't mean they are welcome. It's like saying "Let's let NFL players in 7-year-old football games as long as it takes them an extra week to order their uniform."

Unbalanced is unbalanced no matter what set of behaviors you have to go through to get it.

[Baneblade]

Fuck BFRs, I want Air Cruisers and Baneblades.

[Tool]

Fuck BFRs, I want Air Cruisers and Baneblades.

So long as when your standing close to a Baneblade and it fires it's cannon, your character goes deaf until death lol.

Sexy, sexy Baneblades. I support this idea, Sobekeus for president 2012.

[MrVicchio]

If they would take a page out of Eve's playbook, and make a BFR something like a massive mothership in terms of production cost, time to create...

I could see something like that working. But since the economic aspect of PS2 is still... unknown, this is merely just an idea to toss out.

[Baneblade]

Amen, requiring a whole squad to run would be workable too.

[Bruttal]

uh delete thread. they done said no bfr's in ps2 lets keep it that way, but i agree that it was a fun intresting idea but to unblanced to be used agian.

[krnasaur]

If BFRs required 5 men to operate. 1 driver, 1 per each arm cannon, systems and sheild manager(idk about this one but you get the idea), and 1 main gun operator.


I dont think they would have been so much of an outrage and mass hate. Had they been 1 person "lightnings with legs" just alittle stronger, I dont think they would have been a problem either.

When they combined the heavy firepower and 1/2 men to operate thats where the issue is. if they make one of the 2 changes i listed above i wouldnt be upset with them in PS2

[JanitOr KanOs]

I too agree with the flagship vehicles. BFRs were great at being iconic hate-machines. I wouldn't mind BFRs being like those walkers in BF2142. They looked and sounded great and could be useful in the right hands, but weren't overpowered by any means.

[Vancha]

Here we have a good example of the disconnect between what a player wants, and what's good for gameplay. Even though the player's experienced the detriment to gameplay that what they wanted has caused, they still want it.

The truth is, such a thing would be a disaster, every time.

[DviddLeff]

BFRs could have been great, if they had been the heavy tanks we had asked for which required 3-4 crew.

ALSO I suggest in my upgrade project to give BFR pilots ONE of the following options:

Shield
Gunner turret
Cloak (long recharge time)
Jump jets
Ammo feeds (increased fire rate)
Extra armour (doesn't regenerate, but can't be knocked out like the shield)


This allows BFRs to be used in a variety of roles, yet remain balanced as they sacrifice one aspect in favour of another.

[Lunarchild]

Amen, requiring a whole squad to run would be workable too.

I was thinking about at least an entire platoon (30+ people), and an outfit has to be specialized in it to get one, having a week long cooldown or somesuch. If you want to make some superpowered machine, that's the least I think it should require ^^

[Lartnev]

If something needs this much effort to balance it really isn't worth it. I'd rather see an outfit field a squadron of air cav or a platoon of tanks than one giant killing machine.

As for flagship vehicles I think the devs have already indicated that the customisation options should give a similar effect when you recognise the colour scheme of a famous outfit.

[Redshift]

If they had gone in as 3 man vehicles without recharging shields they'd have been fine, heavy tanks would have worked, 1 man death machines did not.
I'm glad they're gone as they were annoying, i'd not really care if a heavy tank replaced them so long as the driver could not solo with it

[Kietharr]

BFRs were terrible and the second I saw BFRs without something negative directed at them in the title of the thread I was immediately compelled to come and flame you, but I'll keep it civil.

BFRs ruined Planetside, they were possibly the single most god awful addition to the game, ever, including BR40. BFRs gave ONE player the power of a two or three man tank, and in many ways MORE power.

We should not need super units to act as a 'centerpiece' in a battle. The 'centerpiece' of a battle is what the teams are fighting over.

You want a core line unit? Roll out a column of Vanguards. But don't ask for some stupid ass mega MAX robot 1 pilot vehicle to be a super unit.

That being said, I think the game would've been MUCH better off if instead of devoting resources to giant robots, they added a system like the BFR customization to other vehicles.

[Volw]

If they would take a page out of Eve's playbook, and make a BFR something like a massive mothership in terms of production cost, time to create...

I could see something like that working. But since the economic aspect of PS2 is still... unknown, this is merely just an idea to toss out.

Shame you don't even know that this idea failed. Even EVE devs admitted it. They wanted Titans to be rare and now everyone and their dog has one.

[Raymac]

Here we have a good example of the disconnect between what a player wants, and what's good for gameplay. Even though the player's experienced the detriment to gameplay that what they wanted has caused, they still want it.

The truth is, such a thing would be a disaster, every time.

^ This is probably the most important point that's been made.

Like communism, although it may look good in theory, in practice it just doesn't work. The idea of a rare massive kill machine that strikes fear into the hearts of men sounds cool, gameply wise it just rains on the parade.

[morf]

Okay look I'm all about compromises. Put BFR's in but they just won't have any weapons, at all.

There, now we can all be happy.

[Duddy]

If we ever ended up with destructible structures then I'd love to see something along the lines of a mobile weapons platform, that might take several people to man and be vulnerable without support, to take down said structures.

(Video for inspiration, and because cannons mounted on trains are cool, alright!?)

http://youtu.be/9RcuM1Pa5xM?t=3m20ss (http://youtu.be/9RcuM1Pa5xM?t=3m20s)

One can dream...

[Headrattle]

BFRs did not come from the public wanting them.

I seem to remember that before the BFRs the players didn't really WANT walking robots as much as more tanks and other vehicles. Things like vehicle transports, bombers, and heavy tanks were what we really talked about at that point. BFRs came before a lot of the vehicles that are mostly seen as an improvement. BFRs were simply something that we didn't really expect, and most of the community didn't really seem to want. Though I will admit, in retrospect, they hinted at it a bit. Example: SmokeJumper once said something like "If we make some heavy tanks, we will make them different."

[Tool]

BFRs did not come from the public wanting them.

I seem to remember that before the BFRs the players didn't really WANT walking robots as much as more tanks and other vehicles. Things like vehicle transports, bombers, and heavy tanks were what we really talked about at that point. BFRs came before a lot of the vehicles that are mostly seen as an improvement. BFRs were simply something that we didn't really expect, and most of the community didn't really seem to want. Though I will admit, in retrospect, they hinted at it a bit. Example: SmokeJumper once said something like "If we make some heavy tanks, we will make them different."

That's much of the problem, somehow the dev team thought heavy tanks translated to giant robots....:doh:

Just thinking about that for a bit:
Large, slow moving, multi-crew, heavily armed tanks = bipdel, flying, single pilot, robots

:huh:

I didn't understand it then, still don't, probably never will.

[Bags]

That's much of the problem, somehow the dev team thought heavy tanks translated to giant robots....:doh:

Just thinking about that for a bit:
Large, slow moving, multi-crew, heavily armed tanks = bipdel, flying, single pilot, robots

:huh:

I didn't understand it then, still don't, probably never will.

I got yer heavy tank righ' hurr:
http://www.whattheyplay.com/media/images/product/playstation-3/armored-core-for-answer-31701/screenshot/ok2_s-screenshot.jpg

[Lunarchild]

That's much of the problem, somehow the dev team thought heavy tanks translated to giant robots....:doh:

Just thinking about that for a bit:
Large, slow moving, multi-crew, heavily armed tanks = bipdel, flying, single pilot, robots

:huh:

I didn't understand it then, still don't, probably never will.

At least they got the "Large" right...

[MrVicchio]

Shame you don't even know that this idea failed. Even EVE devs admitted it. They wanted Titans to be rare and now everyone and their dog has one.

That's the power of the market.

[BorisBlade]

He didnt say he wanted bfrs. you guys need to read the post before spazzin out. His limiting them idea is flawed and wont work but i see the idea he was meaning about a big strong centerpiece type thing workin if done right.

Long CD, pilot who cant shoot, 4 gunners, standard armor type (no regenerating shields, just high armor), and slow moving. Nothin too powerful tho as to need empire limits. Just very slow and lumbering tanks.

However honestly, i dont think they are needed if the other vehicles are done right. Prob closer to what they were before the last tank buff when much more vehicles were viable rather than ground fights being about who has the most tanks, with buggies and deli's left in the dust. Deli's used to be very effective when used right. They didnt have the armor or firepower but with better range and speed and still fairly good armor they did very well and were lots of fun. Once the tanks were sped up and armor bumped, they just flat out became the best option.

In short, he didnt want BFR's so stop spazzin like idiots. And i can see his basic idea but it may not be needed if we get the rest right.

[ShowNoMercy]

If BFRs required 5 men to operate. 1 driver, 1 per each arm cannon, systems and sheild manager(idk about this one but you get the idea), and 1 main gun operator.


I dont think they would have been so much of an outrage and mass hate. Had they been 1 person "lightnings with legs" just alittle stronger, I dont think they would have been a problem either.

When they combined the heavy firepower and 1/2 men to operate thats where the issue is. if they make one of the 2 changes i listed above i wouldnt be upset with them in PS2


so basically the megazord from power rangers?

[1Shotwonder]

BFRs are not bad idea just like this guy is saying it was the way they were implemented into planetside that made everyone hate them and quit.... really they were not that hard to take down but they were a pretty ridiculous one man /2 man force.... with that being said if BFRs were implemented it be best to do it from the start and do it with a balance unlike planetside where when they first came out they were unbalanced and it caused people to quit which was ridiculous but they did. So with that being said I believe that they can be in the game if done from the start and done right as now in planetside they are just as easy as a lighting to kill if not easier and are now nothing without support.....but hey some people just dont like them I think they were a great idea but they were just put in the game wrong

[Sirisian]

I liked BFRs a lot. I still have it certed on my account actually and regularly used it in the 45 days free. I remember when BFRs first came out. They didn't actually bother me.

Saying all that, I think they could honestly be balanced as a single person vehicle. Their cert cost was huge and the cool-down really limited their use. The two person version was indeed too powerful. I'm not sure about you, but I can get a lot of kills using the VS lasers.

Okay tearing it down I'd prefer they acted like an upgraded max suit since that was the basic idea with them. infantry -> max -> BFR. So the BFR would be customizable with the skill tree as someone else already mentioned. Upgrades could be defined on the armor, legs, weapons, shields, flight, and local sensors. It would be slow with weak points like other vehicles. Since it's high up it usually get hit a lot.

I mentioned before that cloakers should be able to mount boomers onto vehicles. So the legs and such would be weak targets and hurt mobility.

Also I wish the shields were player activated and drained over time a la BF 2142. I'd love to see a decimator coming at me and flip it on to take the damage.

I bet the upgrades for the other vehicles will be huge trees so this makes sense. The idea would be similar in strength to a lightning but slower with one weapon. I was never a fan of the different guns per arm.

[Sifer2]

We have discussed this fairly extensively already if you go back an look for the topics. Thing is a lot of people now don't want them at all just do to how badly they were implemented in PS1. People don't even want to take the risk a second time.

Truth is with the new resource system BFR's could potentially work out a lot better. Providing a power unit that costs way way more resources than standard vehicles to pull. An could be designed to be line breakers or zerg halters or something. Might even be a timer like limited fuel on the BFR as well just to insure they never become standard issue equipment. But yeah I don't expect to see them at launch or possible ever again due to negative stigma associated with them. I wouldn't be surprised to see SOE use this same concept for something else though.

[Valdae]

No no no no no no!

BFR's were far too overpowered, especially in numbers or supported by a Lodestar. They made trying to fight your way out of a tower or a base practically impossible, and made bridge battles - which used to be awesome - totally pointless unless you were also piloting one.

Seriously, all the cool infantry tactics we used to employ went completely down the drain because if a BFR caught you in the open you never stood a chance. Even against an enemy tank you knew at least you could do it some damage. But unless you got the jump on a biffa it was a total waste of time.

As for things SoE suggested, I also remember them saying that they were going to release a patch that allowed you to attack an enemy sanctuary if you had conquered all the continents. Thankfully that was one bad idea that never came to life..

EDIT: Although the idea of people logging on unawares and witnessing their sanctuary being invaded makes me laugh. Especially if they were new to the game.

[Sirisian]

BFR's were far too overpowered, especially in numbers or supported by a Lodestar. They made trying to fight your way out of a tower or a base practically impossible, and made bridge battles - which used to be awesome - totally pointless unless you were also piloting one.

Seriously, all the cool infantry tactics we used to employ went completely down the drain because if a BFR caught you in the open you never stood a chance. Even against an enemy tank you knew at least you could do it some damage. But unless you got the jump on a biffa it was a total waste of time.

We're talking about the current ones right? So what would be your changes? Vanguards and prowlers make it impossible to fight your way out of a tower and only a few people complained about them. (I mean the BFRs can't one hit you as you go up the stairs). So what do you view was the main problem?

I personally feel it's the shield and the health. The current shield makes small arms fire impossible. I usually laugh when I get hit by phoenixes. I feel that shouldn't be the case. An AV weapon should have me retreating a little bit.

Most of your complaints seem to hold the same water as a lightning. If I have a lightning with the chaingun mode I can mow down players easily in a few seconds for a distance. I believe the TTK for the VS lasers is much longer actually. Was it the height advantage or maneuverability or something else?

One thing I did enjoy was they have a predictable strategy for killing them with one person. The lightning doesn't even have that. (Unless you use a Reaver).

[Bags]

Fury can kill a lightning easy. Or are we talking grunt only?

[Senyu]

Just gona throw this out here. This is very sloppy and poorly concieved but heres the jist of it


Mobile Support Vehicle

A large moving vehicle only able to be driven by those in high command rank. This vehicle acts as a mini base in battles and provides a position in which to push. With a small sphere of influence it includes, 20 spawn tubes, equipment terminals, 1 ground vehicle spawn pad, , defensivy weaponary, and healing stations.

So we got a moving base pretty much. Let me try to describe it in detial.


Visually

A large two tread APC vehicle taller than a prowler and much bigger, prob 2 prowlers wide. It has turrets ontop and on sides. On the left side is what looks like an overhang. On the back of the MSV a door pops down and a lighting tank rolls down and speeds off. On its are small doors onto walkways with no railing a jump off the ground, you see infantry coming out and jumping off running ahead of the MSV.

On the interior are 20 spawn tubes in a large room. 10 on each side. The floor between them as equipment terminals facing the tubes. Towards to front section are the windows with the drivers seat of a high command rank player. Off his sides are stations to control the turrets of the MSV. And in the back you see a door leading to the vehicle spawn room where you pick your vehicle.




Hopefully you can somewhat understand what im trying here in those paragraphs. The MVS moves slower than a running infantry and is not a base assulting vehicle, yes it has high armor but it would get pounded and its weapons are just defensive, nothing superstrong.

[Sirisian]

Fury can kill a lightning easy. Or are we talking grunt only?ah good 'ol fury. Yeah I should have said without vehicles instead of saying the Reaver. I mean I kill lightnings using my liberator all the time. But yeah I was pointing out the grunt vs vehicle paradigm which is kind of rare where one player can find a way to destroy a vehicle solo. (Though lancer vs mosquito has its moments).

I will point out the real reason I like the BFRs was for the bipedal robots. I played all the Armored Core games and such so I was thrilled more so than others when the BFRs came to the game. I'm definitely a biased source, though open minded to making them work since I agree they were flawed and in my opinion still are.

[Logit]

How is this thread still active?

[CutterJohn]

How is this thread still active?

There are, quite inexplicably, a number of people that aren't you. The result of this inefficiency is a variety of differing opinions.

[WarChimp130]

For anybody who remembers trying to break out of a facility to see 5 or 6 BFR's camping the shit out of you, standing on the catwalks and raping every ones face off, BFR's are the most hated thing SOE ever thrust upon us.

I liked the idea, but execution was so poor and game breaking that it pretty much sealed Planetsides fate. Especially since they were dumb enough to coincide the release with the release of WoW, the exodus was crippling. They should have put more limitations on them, like saying only 5 could be on a continent per empire at any given time.

Either way, even if they had an awesome way to release them into the game, the name BFR has such a negative connotation now it would pretty much tank the game before it even got rolling. The vast majority of old school players HATE them, bottom line.

[Sirisian]

Either way, even if they had an awesome way to release them into the game, the name BFR has such a negative connotation now it would pretty much tank the game before it even got rolling. The vast majority of old school players HATE them, bottom line.
I don't think most of the current players remember the BFR release to hate them. What we're seeing in this thread is some of the more vocal veterans that remember their launch. Hmm maybe I'll make a poll later today about an idea for mechs and see if any of the veterans can look past the past. Could just call them mechs or something.

[HELLFISH88]

I enjoyed the concept of BFR's but as we have all seen everyone agree's that they were implemented horribly. I'm not one to subscribe to the idea that they were in any way OP (All you needed to kill them was a Punisher with EMP grenade's and Armor piercing ammunition, you brought decimater's too if you could) but I def. feel they threw off game play balance. Too easy too acquire given they are mecha and there were far too many being fielded.

[TRex]

I don't think most of the current players remember the BFR release to hate them.

This is the key word in this thread . If any of the soe team had actually played the game in the past , they might have concentrated on marketing , myriads of bugs and imbalances at the time rather than adding such a pos as BFR's in the first place . Not to mention stealing Oshur away from us.
BFR's will go down in gamer thoughts alongside NGE in swg ( cough, see the soe connection there? ) and best left there in the past. The devs , now we actually have some :groovy: have thrown bfr's and any notion of them in the trash bin where they belong. RIP .

[Valdae]

We're talking about the current ones right? So what would be your changes? Vanguards and prowlers make it impossible to fight your way out of a tower and only a few people complained about them. (I mean the BFRs can't one hit you as you go up the stairs). So what do you view was the main problem?

I personally feel it's the shield and the health. The current shield makes small arms fire impossible. I usually laugh when I get hit by phoenixes. I feel that shouldn't be the case. An AV weapon should have me retreating a little bit.

Most of your complaints seem to hold the same water as a lightning. If I have a lightning with the chaingun mode I can mow down players easily in a few seconds for a distance. I believe the TTK for the VS lasers is much longer actually. Was it the height advantage or maneuverability or something else?

One thing I did enjoy was they have a predictable strategy for killing them with one person. The lightning doesn't even have that. (Unless you use a Reaver).

With Vanguards and Prowlers all you needed was a couple of guys to pop out at the same time and nail that bitch with decimators. Simple teamwork, and even if something else killed you at least you could take down one tank at a time. With BFR's its nearly impossible to damage them without getting inside their shield.

And sure you can go off-road with a lightening and pick off stragglers, but most vehicles are impaired by having to navigate hills and tree's which slow you down. This will make you a prime target for aircraft, light vehicles and infantry with AV, which all helped to balance out the game. Biffas dont have any disadvantages like this.

Thirdly, the reason why most of the older players were annoyed with BFR's is they basically made it impossible to implement tactics. Far more people used to play as infantry, resulting in really awesome battles. But when BFR's came about, it made infantry mostly redundant out in the open.

BFR's can spot you easier due to their height advantage. They can kill you almost instantly with their powerful guns. Their shield makes them almost impossible to damage. And what's more, everyone now uses them because they're so overpowered.

Totally. Ruined. The game.

[WarChimp130]

I enjoyed the concept of BFR's but as we have all seen everyone agree's that they were implemented horribly. I'm not one to subscribe to the idea that they were in any way OP (All you needed to kill them was a Punisher with EMP grenade's and Armor piercing ammunition, you brought decimater's too if you could) but I def. feel they threw off game play balance. Too easy too acquire given they are mecha and there were far too many being fielded.

Believe me I used to go BFR hunting also, I knew quite a few players who would load up on emp nades and Deci's and hot drop right on top of them and destroy them pretty quickly. The problem is that if you weren't carrying a specific BFR hunting load out and deliberately hunting them they were a royal pain in the ass.

Even the gimped versions were annoying. I also couldn't understand why anybody would WANT to pilot those things, it was like having a seizure every time you walked up or down a slight hill.

[Logit]

When I was in KAAOS and BFR timers were 45 minutes, it's all we did. 30 Reavers made short work of BFR's.

[headcrab13]

I feel this unit should have a long cooldown, lets say 3-4 hours but be very powerfull. Not overpowered, it should have weaknesses like being slow and the need to be defended (a whole group of clowns with decis should be able to take one out :)) but it should be very good. It could be a tank with a load of gunner seats on it (Baneblade from Warhammer 40k anyone?), or something like a cross between the GG and an AC130, or something else along this line.

Haha, I can see you're getting plenty of heat just for mentioning BFRs, but I love the core concept you're going with. Your idea regarding the 3-4 hour cooldown makes me think it would be awesome to spawn a slow-moving mega-tank or mega-airship for one side or the other, once a continent has been locked down.

For instance, maybe once the TR "wins" the war on a continent, there would be a few hours of lockdown to give the winners some credit and a break, and then the VS would roll a massive, one-time spawn vehicle out of their warpgate for a chance at retaking some of the continent. The mega-vehicle would definitely have some weaknesses, so it may be necessary to have snipers crouching on various decks of the vehicle and taking out engineers that are laying mines in the distance, and you could even have a V-pad onboard that would allow the disadvantaged team to roll ATVs and Harassers off of the tank's ramp.

The whole concept could kind of a be a scenario-based mode that would be a great diversion to the normal battles, and also be a challenge for the defending faction as they attempted to bring the vehicle down before it steamrolled too many of their bases. You'd have to toy around with the balance, but the idea would be that it was there to help the losing faction reclaim some of their land, yet the vehicle wouldn't be so powerful that it could capture more than a few bases before being destroyed by the "winning" faction.

-HC13

[Hamma]

Well one thing is for sure as much as people liked them or didn't like them they are not going in. The original PS players who were around when they were implemented them believe they were the one thing that destroyed the game (even though it was a variety of things imo with BFRs being a big part)

Smed has said they won't be in so debating the possibility seems rather meaningless at the moment. :)

[Haro]

Well one thing is for sure as much as people liked them or didn't like them they are not going in. The original PS players who were around when they were implemented them believe they were the one thing that destroyed the game (even though it was a variety of things imo with BFRs being a big part)

Smed has said they won't be in so debating the possibility seems rather meaningless at the moment. :)

I agree that BFRs wont and shouldn't be in, but I would still like mechs to be there. Either a big one that requires multiple gunners (I figure it to be more of a long-range, slow artillery piece rather than a direct walking tank like the BFRs) or a light, all-terrain anti-infantry/anti-light vehicle meck (I like to think of the gekko walkers from Metal Gear Solid 4, if anyone here is familiar with them)

Either way though, it's hard to think of how this would be balanced in the game when we don't know about most of the game. so yeah, moot point (for now, bwa ha ha.)

[exLupo]

Big post deleted, I argued against my own point and changed my mind. :)

I don't see a way to realistically have a flagship. Sure, it would be cool to have something that inspired awe and fear. "Oh damn, the BLAH BLAH BOAT is here. This fight just got real." but, lets face it, in time that ship will be at every encounter and if you don't have one, you will lose. Or, perhaps, it will get nerfed so having one doesn't matter which defeats the purpose of the unit. If other limits like "one per day per continent" were implemented, that just means anyone that wants (or needs) one later in the day is boned.

It's great to see such units in books and movies and non-persistent games but, in an MMO, I don't see any way to properly implement something of such power.

[Sifer2]

Big post deleted, I argued against my own point and changed my mind. :)

I don't see a way to realistically have a flagship. Sure, it would be cool to have something that inspired awe and fear. "Oh damn, the BLAH BLAH BOAT is here. This fight just got real." but, lets face it, in time that ship will be at every encounter and if you don't have one, you will lose. Or, perhaps, it will get nerfed so having one doesn't matter which defeats the purpose of the unit. If other limits like "one per day per continent" were implemented, that just means anyone that wants (or needs) one later in the day is boned.

It's great to see such units in books and movies and non-persistent games but, in an MMO, I don't see any way to properly implement something of such power.



Well I mentioned one way. High resource cost an limited fuel. So the vehicle might only be able to operate for 30 minutes or something. Making it good for certain situations but not to waste in general. Probably other ways to work it as well.

Also given the choice of a giant death robot or giant AMS/Tank or Airship I think I would go with the latter. A mobile base sounds potentially more interesting.

[exLupo]

It's a good idea but lets look at it. If the weapon is strong enough that its singular presence is worth the cost, what happens if you don't take your objective in those 30 minutes? The other team pops theirs and scrapes you off the map. Like in any other game, fights will devolve into "who uses their mega weapon last" to see who wins. Regardless of genre, that's how super weapons work. If you can survive their push, you'll win with a trump card of your own.

That is, of course, all assuming they've got direct impact on the battle. Maybe flagships are a more passive resource. A mobile base that is limited to defensive weapons would be something. Giga-AMS? Mobile, floating Mossie/Reaver spawn station (with limited spawns, of course)?

I think the only way the discussion can begin is if the unit itself has no direct offensive power. Things like that cap out based on teamwork as opposed to raw numbers.

[Bags]

***x202a;Megas XLR Opening***x202c;‏ - YouTube

[Vancha]

***x202a;Megas XLR Opening***x202c;‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDAPGLO-r4s)
I loved that show.

Really, mechs could probably be implemented well. Imagine a mech, smaller than a BFR, with the armour of a lightning, a basilisk machine gun on one arm, a fury rocket launcher on the other (which only fires one at a time, not two) and moves at half the speed of a lightning, or lightning speed while on auto run (except it wouldn't run, it'd roll).

Of course, that has nothing to do with a centerpiece of battle.

[exLupo]

^^^ Sort of a 2142 walker but with less armor. More dangerous than a tank in the shorter range and against air but tanks could still outrange it if the gunner had a good grasp on trajectory.

[Volw]

Well I mentioned one way. High resource cost an limited fuel. So the vehicle might only be able to operate for 30 minutes or something. Making it good for certain situations but not to waste in general. Probably other ways to work it as well.

Also given the choice of a giant death robot or giant AMS/Tank or Airship I think I would go with the latter. A mobile base sounds potentially more interesting.

Doesn't work. CCP tried that with Titans.

Outfits will typically get richer and richer, to the point where they will be able to spam BFRs all day.

Yes, you've mentioned respawn timer, but it doesn't prevent multiple outfits from chain-spawning them.