What SOE should do to keep the community involved

[cashfoyogash]

CCP games has been known to take care of their players, time after time releasing what are basically free expansions for EVE. Now SOE should implement this same respect for their game but what I am getting at that CCP does right is the Council of Stellar Managment. If youve played EVE then you know what CSM is, if you havent its a group of players just like you and me who dont work for CCP who is voted on by other players who are in close contact with CCP about EVE. The CSM will propose ideas to CCP about making the game better whether its adding content or nerfing something. CCP then listens to them and either does it or does not do it but they put some serious thought into what the CSM says. They also let the CSM be privy to upcoming events in new expansions that will change the EVE universe and ask for their input.

I think if SOE really wants to make a great game they need to do something like the CSM made up of a few players from every faction and get together with them to receive quality input on how to make the game better for us all.

Every term for the CSM is either six months to a year, so every six months or so there is a new vote for new CSM members to take place of the old ones. Also every term CCP flies the CSM members to CCP headquarters where the developers sit down with the CSM and talk about the EVE universe. I would love to see SOE take this step to ensure they always have a quality game.

[SavageB]

Ya , or they could just visit forums like they have been and kinda get the just of what the opinions are of the current player base, but that CSM idea is def. more personal and theres nothing like talking face to face.

[Soothsayer]

Well, its a better idea than an entertainer class... :D

lol

Yeah, they have decent success with this. The main objection to it is that the big alliance that has publicly stated that their mission is to ruin EVE will take over (they will remain nameless)... this hasn't really happened.

Candidates platform on their playstyle and reputation. You aren't necessarily voting just for your CEO (in PS2 would be outfit leader), you're voting for the person who best represents your interests.

[cashfoyogash]

Well, its a better idea than an entertainer class... :D


Lmao, i seen that post about SWG.... def not the way to keep PS2 strong. I just really think they should take one person from every faction on every server which in my mind would be 12-16 people and receive their input (im not sure on how many servers there will be, I assume four).

They can just check out the forums all day or they can use a more face to face method that also shows they are doing everything they can to make sure the game they are creating is the game its players want to play. EVE doesnt have 300,000 players for no reason.

[Operations]

I think if SOE really wants to make a great game they need to do something like the CSM made up of a few players from every faction and get together with them to receive quality input on how to make the game better for us all.
So you want to actively promote the idea of a vocal minority? :confused:
The forum community will already be just a fraction of the player base, but you feel that is still too many voices?
Cant say I like the sound of this myself.

[Soothsayer]

I don't even know if I'd divide by server...

Your candidate will advocate your playstyle, if your playstyle has enough votes, your issues come forward.

I don't know how I'd get around the popularity contest idea, but certainly it is a concern.

I'm not one to bust out lengthy quotes or anything, but here's one from an academic that I copied down years ago that really resonated...

"Consistency requires that those who propose that world politics is run by world laws behave lawfully themselves and that those countries who proclaim democracy should be willing themselves to live with being outvoted." -Ken Booth

If you went this way, you have to be content to have the system work the way it works regardless of whether your guy won the race.

[WarChimp130]

I actually like this idea. The other thing to mention is that the CSM changes yearly I believe, so it's not like you are forming some sort of hegemony of players that shape the game for years to come.

I think more important than getting per server would be getting per empire. Maybe a council of 9, 3 per empire. The people selected would have to be pretty consistent with one empire in that respect, which I'm sure SOE could tell.

This would be a good way to get concentrated message to the Dev's as opposed to having them sort through every screaming loony on the forums. Not that they shouldn't pay attention to those also, but this way the team could specifically talk over issues, come up with recommendations and present them to the Dev's in a clear and concise manner.

[cashfoyogash]

I understand your concerns about this. This is how CCP has it set up.

Topic Presentation and Management by the CSM

Anyone with the right to vote can start a topic on the Assembly Hall, which is a forum on the official EVE-O website, and comment on any number of existing topics. Moderation rules for posting in the CSM section of the forums are the same as all other boards in MyEVE. In addition, voters are also provided with the technical means to indicate their support of a topic. Players may support any number of separate topics, but may only support each topic once.

A topic can be anything that a player considers important. The goal is to either gain the support of a Representative, or gain a 25% public support level on the issue from the number of voters of the last election. If either of these conditions is met, the topic must be addressed by the CSM. Regardless of the support method, topics cannot be adopted by the CSM unless they have been open for community discussion for at least seven days. This includes the act of a Representative putting forth a topic, as he or she must present the topic to the voters and cannot bring it forth to the Council unless it has been up for seven days or more.

Upon reaching the CSM, all topics must be discussed by Representatives and voted on to determine if escalation to the CCP Council is necessary. A simple majority vote is required for passage. Topics which do not pass this vote must be accompanied with a summary explaining why. Time is the only constraint to the number of topics that can be voted on.

This is the link to everything about the CSM from eligibilty to voting for CSM members and also the term lengths, basically everything: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/What_is_the_CSM#Candidate_Eligibility

[Sovereign]

They should take the arena.net approach in being level headed and objective as possible with every sect of their base..

No more oligarchy for PS2 please...

[T-Ray]

We will always be here for the players. No doubt about that. We listen and learn thats the only way we'll get better at what we do.

[Raymac]

We will always be here for the players. No doubt about that. We listen and learn thats the only way we'll get better at what we do.

The level of interaction since Fan Faire has been extremely encouraging. Either you guys are just really good at spitting game and telling us what we like to hear, or you are on your way to making my all time favorite game. It's feeling like the latter.

Keep up the great work. We are devouring ever morsal of info you guys can release.

[SavageB]

We will always be here for the players. No doubt about that. We listen and learn thats the only way we'll get better at what we do.

Ya that's the onething that really stood out for me T, when you mentioned that in the QA vid, about now it's time to give back to the players, just hope that attitude and mind frame can stick throughout the project. Hopefully the investors and politics wont sway your ways.

[WarChimp130]

The level of interaction since Fan Faire has been extremely encouraging. Either you guys are just really good at spitting game and telling us what we like to hear, or you are on your way to making my all time favorite game. It's feeling like the latter.

Keep up the great work. We are devouring ever morsal of info you guys can release.

I've gone beyond devouring and have begun snorting, smoking and main lining every piece of info they release. I injected the last two screen shots between my toes so my boss wouldn't get suspicious.

[T-Ray]

"I'm yo pusha"

[CutterJohn]

Community involvement idea: Hold a design contest for a vehicle like EVE has done a couple times. Something common pool if any exist. :D

[MrVicchio]

Monthly contests for fan art, fan stories.

[CutterJohn]

Nah.. designing something in game would be more fun. I'd like, just once, a mesh of mine to be used in a game. Sadly all I'm good at is spaceships.

Hell, I'd settle for a UVmap i made. :D

"You see how distortion free that texture is? I did that. *puffs chest* "

[WarChimp130]

"I'm yo pusha"

I need a fix man! I'm starting to get the shakes! I'm starting to feel things again!

[T-Ray]

More stuff is coming, stay tuned my little junky friend. ;)

[basti]

More stuff is coming, stay tuned my little junky friend. ;)

Yea, my dealer told me that one as well. Took him 3 weeks to get me another supply run. We are dying here man, DYING! WE NEED OUR FIX! :D

[Timey]

1) There will always be unsatisfied people, bitchers even, because things don't work out just for them.

2) Not all will use the forums (wild guess of about 40~~%?, might be way too high).

3) DON'T USE THE FORUM POLLS / BITCHING AS "This we must do, they say it at dem forums." (This you knew already, though).

Dunno, added nothing to the topic (once again). Just make it 'balanced' and it'll be awesome.

ps. I wouldn't even mind if some race was a bit overpowered (which will happen anyway because impossible to balance & stuff) so I'd have an excuse of being fragged if the fragger would be of x empire :(

edit: lol race (haven't played a rpg since '05)

[exLupo]

The CSM is pretty unique. Other companies have things like class leads and MVP forumgoers as the closest analogue. Without the rich player community present in EVE, I don't think this would be possible. There may be place for this in PS2 but it will be years down the road. I don't really think PS1/2 caters to the kind of people that would want or need this kind of service. On top of that, the PS1 forum community got far too much attention and catering so I would hardly be surprised if SOE took more of a "We hear you but this is still our baby." stance this time around.

I'm cool with that.

@Soothsayer: The one thing to remember about Goons. They don't play games together to help themselves win. They play games together to help everyone else lose.

[Vancha]

Didn't DAoC have class leads? I can't remember if they were from the community or the staff...They basically did the same thing as CSMs except purely for class concerns.

To be honest I'm just happy with the level of communication that's already going on. It's when that falls off and the wall gets built between the players and the devs that things tend to go downhill.

[cashfoyogash]

We will always be here for the players. No doubt about that. We listen and learn thats the only way we'll get better at what we do.

I wasn't implying that SOE was not there for the players, yes in the past and especially with PS1 SOE received a bad reputation but that was then and this is now. PS2 compared to PS1 already looks incredibly better and the fact there will be a three year plan for it shows an interest toward making a top notch game. I just felt that the CSM really assists CCP in not only making a quality game that the players want but also makes the players feel more involved in the direction of the game, almost like every EVE player is a developer.

On a side note the game looks awesome from an art stand point, looks amazing. Yes there is some brown on my nose.

[WarChimp130]

I guess the counterpoint to CSM in PS2 would be how necessary would it be? Now that I think about it some more, EVE is a much bigger, much more complex game with lots of numbers and data to crunch and balance. So a CSM is more necessary to help make those numbers actually fit the game play.

In PS at any given moment their were only usually a few things that needed to be really addressed. It was usually "ZOMG LASHER IS UNDERPOWERED COMPARED TO MCG BAWWWWWWW" or "OMGWTF TR AA MAX'S ARE SOOO GIMP NEXT TO DA VS ONES LOLOLOLOL" or other such screamings.

In EVE though it's more like "The top speed of all Destroyer's should be slightly increased by .05% and the rate of fire on the Cormerant should be slightly increased to give it more survivability versus Frigates. Also these mining lasers should be given a 1% greater yield per cycle." Planetside 2 shouldn't need that level of tweaking I hope.

[cashfoyogash]

True EVE is a very complex world but its mainly spreadsheets. I just figure with their three year plan and with all the new editions to the game something similar may be useful. There are still alot of numbers to crunch in PS. Everything is algorithms and formulas even in a fps game.

[WarChimp130]

Oh I know when you break it down most games are, but EVE like you said is spreadsheets of data and the actual skill level of the player is minimized by how good they are processing those numbers mentally and making decisions off of it.

I'm still for a CSM in some fashion, but it's not going to be as critical as it seems to be in EVE. Player skill will IMO skew the data more than it will in a game like EVE where pretty much anybody who is willing to crunch the numbers will do just fine. Look at a weapon like the Scorpion. I knew people who couldn't get a kill with that thing if they spent a week using nothing but it, then I knew guys who could just absolutely rape face with it and would rack up the kills. Was it over powered or under powered? Depended on how good you were with it.

So while I can definitely see the use of a CSM, Planetside has more of a "Individual results may vary" feel than EVE where the numbers are the numbers and getting those numbers balanced is so key. But I feel like SOE is looking a lot at EVE in terms of development because of the longevity of it, and the CSM is probably a good reason for their continued success.

[NapalmEnima]

More stuff is coming, stay tuned my little junky friend. ;)

Don't make me go all Amy Winehouse on your ass!

>Thud<





What? Too soon?