Serious Combatant Vs the Casual FPSTard

[MrVicchio]

One of the things I love most about FPS games, is when a group of people WORK TOGETHER, against the enemy. PS1, MAG, hell even CSS you could tell when a team was working together, and when it was a bunch of individuals.

Or as I see it, the Serious Combatant vs the FPSTard.One thing Sony MUST do, is stress to new players the... NEED for teamwork, and why.

To that end, I think outfits should be able to unlock the ability to "spawn" zones and areas for practice. No one in them, just the Outfit and be able to set up way points, over views.. the whole kit and kaboodle.

I think that would really make Outfits matter, Teamwork payoff and bring a lot of joy to the game.

[NewSith]

Like outfit exclusive trainig ground and shooting range? Awesome idea, but not very necessary.

[BorisBlade]

You can do alot of that on locked/owned conts. Thats what we did to practice various base type assaults. Formations to move in when assaulting each target type. Defensive set ups for various things such as CC/gen hold etc. And many other things. Just find a cont you own and go to town.

Still hate the idea of no sanc, seems like it got removed for imaginary reasons. Hope they have some good way to form up raids etc in an area that cant be seen by the enemy, even by population numbers.

[opticalshadow]

teamwork does pay off. you never went into a battle and single handedly changed much. it was never the hollywood 1 vs 400 victory. the biggest battle were overturned by co ordinated attacks.

[Goku]

I personally love a VR area like the current VR training for outfits to train in. Anything from basic training to having advanced training. Advanced training could be taking one squad from our outfit in the VR turning them into the enemy faction with all their weapons to allow for specific training scenarios indoor and out.

[p0intman]

SAS uses bases on homeconts for our shooting houses. Sometimes towers on fully engaged conts. Sometimes both if we are fighting on homeconts.

A few times, we've had a random or two enemies drop on us while doing training.

hilarity usually ensues, because we like it when our target practice comes to us.

[Lartnev]

To that end, I think outfits should be able to unlock the ability to "spawn" zones and areas for practice. No one in them, just the Outfit and be able to set up way points, over views.. the whole kit and kaboodle.

All well and good, but what makes you think "FPStards" would want to practice?
I suspect pro outfits will want this and, being pro gamers, would want to pay for it as well ;)

[Rbstr]

To that end, I think outfits should be able to unlock the ability to "spawn" zones and areas for practice. No one in them, just the Outfit and be able to set up way points, over views.. the whole kit and kaboodle.

I think that would really make Outfits matter, Teamwork payoff and bring a lot of joy to the game.

That wouldn't have anything to do with a payoff for team work or making outfits matter in the accrual game. Practice, by it's nature, only plays off when applied to the real situation.

Why not just practice with the real thing? What benefit do highly artificial situations bring?

[CutterJohn]

One of the things I love about FPS games is that, while you can work together against the enemy, going off and doing your own thing is often viable as well.

To that end, I think individuals should be able to unlock the ability to "spawn" zones and areas for practice. No one in them, just the Individual and be able to set up way points, over views.. the whole kit and kaboodle.


Tis a game. Very little cost for death. Learn on the job.

[FIREk]

Won't individuals be added to temporary, ad-hoc teams for the purpose of completing a server-generated objective? I don't think the typical FPS player (one that only wants to shoot stuff) will bother looking for a "I don't want to be in a squad or get missions" button.

[Vancha]

Won't individuals be added to temporary, ad-hoc teams for the purpose of completing a server-generated objective? I don't think the typical FPS player (one that only wants to shoot stuff) will bother looking for a "I don't want to be in a squad or get missions" button.
That'd be fine, so long as there is an "I don't want to be in a squad" toggle.

I was mostly a solo player in Planetside. I was in a galdrop outfit when I was new, I moved to a fast response one when I'd been playing a little while and after that I was mostly solo. Planetside is a game where squads aren't necessary to be part of the overall battle...Be it the community, friends, command chat, fighting unsquadded alongside your empire or simply knowing that all the enemies are human, there's plenty of reasons for a solo player to be playing (and want to be playing) Planetside...Plenty of things that stop them being alone, despite being solo.

[Trolltaxi]

That wouldn't have anything to do with a payoff for team work or making outfits matter in the accrual game. Practice, by it's nature, only plays off when applied to the real situation.

Why not just practice with the real thing? What benefit do highly artificial situations bring?

Have you ever actually tried to train br0 newbies to the basics of the game? We did it quite a lot, and beleive me, you need silent and so to say sterile environment to teach even the most obvious thing in the game. Like how to climb the steps in a tower, or how they will not cross the line of fire of an anchored MAX.

[ShowNoMercy]

PS1 already had enough in place to enable effective training. By removing grief when attacking squad mates, you could effectively go to other conts and practice. The only thing they need to add is no grief for attacking outfit members. It was always a pain having to make a platoon when training since you could see who and where you mock enemies were. Later we would disable the radar at a facility when training, but that was a hassle and greenies would come and purge the radar many times.

[Death2All]

PS1 already had enough in place to enable effective training. By removing grief when attacking squad mates, you could effectively go to other conts and practice. The only thing they need to add is no grief for attacking outfit members. It was always a pain having to make a platoon when training since you could see who and where you mock enemies were. Later we would disable the radar at a facility when training, but that was a hassle and greenies would come and purge the radar many times.

You already don't get grief for attacking outfit members. I would know. I do it a lot.

[Logit]

That wouldn't have anything to do with a payoff for team work or making outfits matter in the accrual game. Practice, by it's nature, only plays off when applied to the real situation.

Why not just practice with the real thing? What benefit do highly artificial situations bring?

Teaching noobs how to play the game.

If we had VR, with bases and towers in it in the original it would be a benefit. A vast majority of the outfits I was in had dry runs on continents that weren't being contested specifically for showing how it's done.

Things in actual combat don't always go as planned, so it's nice to have an idea of what it should look like. So when you're in the real shit, at least you can be able to adjust quicker.

VR provides that.

If you don't want to practice than don't, but I know there are outfits that would find this beneficial to the operation.

[MrVicchio]

That wouldn't have anything to do with a payoff for team work or making outfits matter in the accrual game. Practice, by it's nature, only plays off when applied to the real situation.

Why not just practice with the real thing? What benefit do highly artificial situations bring?

It allows teams to practice without the distractions. Practice tactics... why do you think the NFL, NBA, the US ARMY... why do you think people practice? To hone those skills.

[Vancha]

It allows teams to practice without the distractions. Practice tactics... why do you think the NFL, NBA, the US ARMY... why do you think people practice? To hone those skills.
Well the US army obviously practices because unlike Planetside, death is permanent. Meanwhile the NBA and NFL have to practice because even if another pro side was willing to face them outside of league games regularly, they'd hold back in case they ever needed to bring out something extra for an important game.

I don't think either of those scenarios apply to Planetside.

[Redshift]

It's already possible to do that stuff in safe bases like people have already mentioned, i'd rather the dev team didn't waste time making stuff that isn't really needed

[exLupo]

Call me a Negative Nancy but I believe you can lead a noob to success but you can't make him pro. The path can be shown but they have to get off their ass and walk it and most people would prefer to do it their own way. Meaning, to ram their heads into a wall until they say "this game is stupid" and quit.

The current tripling of the active TF2 playerbase had made me a disillusioned bitch. Not that a ton of new players aren't great to have around but mostly it's not them. Simply that seeing how these fresh new faces play and comparing it to how a lot of weathered old faces play, I'm seeing some frightening similarities. Ingrained Rambo charge-in behavior and a complete inability to wait for the goddamn uber before sucking a face full of sentry turret.

PS2 needs to be hardcore about teamwork. Every single moment of the day, pushing that aspect of the game. The auto-grouping is fantastic. On-squad spawns? Wonderful. But there needs to be more. There needs to be some strict guiding hand that teaches our willful youth to listen to their SL and move as a group. Can this be attempted? Sure. Will it be successful? Tens of thousands of years of uppity teenagers do not give me hope but, still, do your best for those that are open to suggestion.

I do believe that was a rant. I have no suggestions other than team-friendly tips on the respawn screen (where the players that need it most will see them) but take this as a rah rah rah cheering on for the effort. Go team.

[Azren]

To that end, I think outfits should be able to unlock the ability to "spawn" zones and areas for practice. No one in them, just the Outfit and be able to set up way points, over views.. the whole kit and kaboodle.

I think that would really make Outfits matter, Teamwork payoff and bring a lot of joy to the game.

This sounds like instances, which are a big NO. We had this argument several times by now, and the majority of the playerbase does not want any kind of instance.

However (and here comes the fun part), it was said that the game will have sandbox features in the future. It may take an extra year, but imagine building your own base with your own practice areas (a training camp if you will) - anything the way you want to. That should have everything you wish for here.

[Goku]

Azren whats the difference between a base you build with your own training area and the instance idea? If nothing is going on the outfit brings their 20 guys there to train its no different then your idea or the instance one. The outfit is still taking away from the general game population to train. Outfits still even do that today and take away pops from the fight. If outfits really want to do this I see no reason why not to give it to them. I would of loved this years ago with mine.

[Rbstr]

It allows teams to practice without the distractions. Practice tactics... why do you think the NFL, NBA, the US ARMY... why do you think people practice? To hone those skills.

As was already said, none of these situations are equivalent. Professional sports games have a finite number of occurrences and costs for those occurrences in addition to off-seasons where nothing happens otherwise and real potential for player incapacitation.
The Army is that to an even more extreme situation.

Unless PS2 has penalties for participation in a battle beyond the win or loss - one of which would happen with or without the "practising" player - I don't see a reason to add dedicated large scale practice areas.

Obviously the vech/weapons VR's serve a purpose because spending certs is a semi-permanent thing. PS2 should have some semblance of that.

[Aractain]

While I (and apparently lots of females) don't like to learn in public because we all look like fools, practice in an FPS consists of deploy and shoot people (and hope they didn't notice how bad you were).

[DviddLeff]

First let me say that the game has to cater for both your "average" FPS player who is used to 5 - 15 minute matches on a small scale to the seasoned PS veterans, and with every player in between.

Now its holding the interest of the masses which is what will decide if PS2 succeeds or fails. Now the hook of PS over any other FPS is the scale of warfare and those players who don't have time to train in empty bases or spend even 10 minutes forming up in sanc need to be catered for.

PS slowed down in the times where you got kicked back to sanc, or were waiting on a base hack listening to the inane spamming of "Destroy their medical terminals!" and its precisely this down time which is what the devs are trying to avoid with squad spawning, gals as spawn points, removal of sanc and quick 30 second captures.

Sure let outfits practice if they want to, and having an arena style VR for this purpose as well as tournaments would be fantastic.

[Raymac]

Practice? We're talking about practice?

Start at about 0:40

***x202a;Iverson Practice!***x202c;‏ - YouTube

[CaptainMaverik]

i think, (going out on a limb here), he's talking about practice

[Sovereign]

... and as they say practice makes perfect but nobodies perfect.. ;)

[Evilmp]

I didn't read through the thread, so forgive me if this has been suggested:

Why not simply expand the VR weapon/vehicle testing area to include some mock up bases with functioning terminals in a wide open area?

[Azren]

Azren whats the difference between a base you build with your own training area and the instance idea? If nothing is going on the outfit brings their 20 guys there to train its no different then your idea or the instance one. The outfit is still taking away from the general game population to train. Outfits still even do that today and take away pops from the fight. If outfits really want to do this I see no reason why not to give it to them. I would of loved this years ago with mine.

The diffrence is, in a sandbox training area you are still in the presistent world, inside a base or training camp that you built - not some simulated virtual zone. Instances have no place in PS, that's all.

[exLupo]

Instances have no place in PS, that's all.

Of course, except the VR training area in every sanctuary. I understand that weapons are locked there to prevent griefing but, if you need a precedent, there you go. Locked version for weapons familiarization, unlocked for team training and situation simulations.

[Effective]

That wouldn't have anything to do with a payoff for team work or making outfits matter in the accrual game. Practice, by it's nature, only plays off when applied to the real situation.

Why not just practice with the real thing? What benefit do highly artificial situations bring?

A controlled environment ensures you can repeat the a scenario multiple times, especially one that you might need practice with, for example MCG agile vs. charging rexo JH in a stairwell, most noobs might think that the MCG will win every time. But it's a lot more difficult then it looks when facing a GOOD JH user as opposed to the generic NC noobs

Basic dueling can allow you to set your sensitivity to where you want it and allow you to get strafing down.

TRx had several training methods for 1v1's, 2v1's, 2v2's, 3v3's, 4v4's, (and more), air duels, improving sensitivity/aim, improving strafing, and so much more. We would train when the options available at the time were limited, so we'd practice. The end result? TRx was easily considered one of the best team outfits in the game and infamously known as being cheaters (which isn't true, but it's funny). We had a solid mix of grunts, pilots, and support certs when we were active.

[Goku]

Effective what did Mars end up tripping off then? I remember the huge shit storm that was created on the forums when he was banned. Even so he still just made magic, hell I saw him on Mars earlier this summer (first time in ages). I am not saying he hacked. Maybe every time I came across him I swear we almost killed each other a even amount of times. With that I don't think he was hacking otherwise the ratio would be far more then that.

Back on topic. Yes training does help even if you are doing it with noobs or as Effective pointed out one of the most well known outfits in PlanetSide. Even if this isn't in the game originally I would love to see it added down the road.

[Effective]

Effective what did Mars end up tripping off then? I remember the huge shit storm that was created on the forums when he was banned. Even so he still just made magic, hell I saw him on Mars earlier this summer (first time in ages). I am not saying he hacked. Maybe every time I came across him I swear we almost killed each other a even amount of times. With that I don't think he was hacking otherwise the ratio would be far more then that.

Brewko, in his infinite wisdom, told mars he was supposedly flying according to the appeal. Turned out TRxMarz was also flying, and that no one ever came forward and said "I saw the real mars flying!" Mars reason for being banned changed twice after that, I don't know the full story as it happened way before I joined TRx.

However, seeing Brewko wrongly ban Kazzo over the BR32 bug, even though another GM told him it was fine to keep playing, made me very skeptical towards Brewko's credibility as a CSR/GM. Took 3 weeks before Raijin noticed and stepped in to have a look, he finally unbanned kazzo at that point, because Kazzo hadn't done anything wrong, Brewko was just being a stubborn prick. Once Brewko was moved out of PS to a different job, Mars was able to get his ban removed.