Bailing Mechanism Failure

[Evilmp]

I don't know about you guys, but I hated this thing.

Mainly because it turned aircraft, for me, the terrible pilot, into a coffin. Yeah, I could get some skill, but flying isn't my thing. I like to take care of my mossie, but I use it almost entirely for transportation.

Sure it was nice getting more kills as AA, but I had a lot of fun hunting the pilot after he bailed before that thing was implemented as well.

It's not a game breaker for me either way, but do you think it should be carried over to PS2?

[exLupo]

Assuming a 5 point skill scale: 55% failure default w/ -10% per level, first included. 45, 35, 25, 15, 5. Or 50 to 0.

I like even the best players being mercy to the occasional random "oh well" death but I also like random crits in shooters. Anathema to the competitive community but I like life dirty.

[Valdae]

I'd like to see it implemented. I like the idea of percentage scale too, give people who choose to be a pilot extra reward for their rank.

[Bags]

Keep it in just remove the RNG.

[Bruttal]

i think it should stay in just because if you bail you chances of surviving afterwards are only like 3%

[DashRev]

I hate bailing. If it were up to me, I'd rather see a 100% chance to fail if your aircraft took any damage at all in the last 60 seconds, with the exception of any pure transport craft like the Galaxy or Phantasm.

You want the higher reward of getting to a fight faster with an aircraft? You should be subject to the higher risk of getting shot down in your flying coffin. Either play it safe and take a ground vehicle or stop short of your destination, land, and get out. I dislike aircraft being so disposable.

[wildcat140679]

There is nothing more frustrating than to have a pilot bail out the very last moment and even more frustrating is when that bailed out pilot kills you.

PlanetSide rewarded you only for killing a vehicle with pilot/gunners/passengers inside. Not getting rewarded for destroying a vehicle that was attacking you moments before the pilot bailed is the only reason the bailing failure mechanism got patched in to the game. People like to get rewarded for taking out a vehicle and this was only possible with the pilot/passengers still inside.


If PlanetSide 2 will reward players for damaging an occupied enemy vehicle and destroying it, even if the pilot/gunners/passengers bailed out, than I expect people will have less problems with not having a bailing failure mechanism, for there still getting rewarded for there efforts. Yet, still I believe having bailing failure mechanism is for the better of the game and I've a gut feeling some form of bailing failure mechanism will be within PlanetSide 2


An alternative way could be to have the pilot, gunners and passengers start taking damage to their personal armor and health as the vehicles health drops below a certain point. The goal is not to kill the occupants while there still in the vehicle, but to balance things. The longer your keep on fighting with the damage vehicle, greater the disadvantage of fighting with degraded personal armor and health conditions when you bailout will become.

An exaggerate situation. A foot soldier equipped with a Punisher with AP rounds and EMP and rockets ammo, other than that he doesn't have other Anti-Vehicle weapons, he gets attacked by a mosquito. Common sense would say, he's a dead man and unable to win.
But luck is on his side and he is able to make use of cover and hit it with an EMP round. While being near death himself, he's was able to bring the mosquito below 25% health. The pilot bails out in perfect health condition to gun down the near death foot soldier. Would the pilot have received damage because his vehicle took to much damage, he would be at a disadvantage as well, I'm pretty sure the pilot would still have won the gun battle on foot, but the situation would have felt more balanced for the foot soldier who lost the fight, for there was the idea of having a slim change of still winning.

[Vancha]

Without bailing malfunctions, no pilot ever has to worry about dying in their aircraft short of getting instagibbed.

Perhaps the chance of a bailing malfunction could depend on whether the aircraft got hit in a particular location, and how many times...?

[exLupo]

IIRC bailout failures came in the wake of every TR pilot having a Striker and killing anybody that they lost a dogfight to. Not too big if the pilot was NC and pretty weak if they were VS but it was the de facto response by anybody in a red plane.

[Azren]

There should be a possibility for the bailing mechanism to fail. Since it has been said that the vehicles will have subsystems, just link this to one of them. If that said subsystem is damaged, the chance of bailing gets lower. If it gets destroyed, you can not bail at all. Overall damage to the craft would include damage to this subsystem too, hence if your craft has taken 50%+ damage, even if the bailing system was not hit directly, there would still be a chance for it to fail.

Also, there should be a minimal flight height you need for bailing, anything below that and you take damage upon hitting the ground, or even die.

This may seam a bit one sided, but think of all the other vehicle drivers who can not bail at all, tanks for example.

[Aractain]

Bailing was not fun to face. And well, the bailer lost why should the he get more fun?

The balance of fun must be kept. If you don't want to die, be a better pilot.
NO BAILING!

[NewSith]

I think it's too early to jump into assumptions. I mean, the new aircraft system is going to be "complex and innovative" + locational vehicle damage was confirmed.

It may end up being like in BF where 2 heatseekers were enough to shoot down a fighter. In that case bailing mechanisms failure would not be very sexy.

[FastAndFree]

You know what would be great?

If the "ejection seat" would be an upgrade that you need to put on your plane. Meaning you would have to sacrifice space/slots you could use to pack actually useful equipment/systems/ammo/armor/chaff/whatever

(Yes, I hate bailing too)

[exLupo]

Since we know nothing about any of this, I was wondering something. Two things really.

1) Would it be right to count bails as a kill if more than some percentage of damage was done and credit to the attackers?

2) Is there a "pilot suit" one is required to wear to fly anything? If so, even if they do bail they may be left with not much more than a pistol and a rek.

[Aractain]

Counting them as a full kill (maybe even a "CHICKEN!" bouns for making them so scared) would solve most of the problem.

Pilot suits with nothing in them isn't fun. So you bail and escape and now the game turns into a bad copy of splinter cell without the stupid AI?

If you can find someway to make that fun I guess... but I would rather be back at base getting another bullet magnet to fly over enemy airspace.

[CutterJohn]

So long as the bail counts as a kill and rewards exp to whoever shot it down, I don't particularly care. People who bailed just to piss off AA were showing extremely poor sportsmanship.

Hopefully you can't fly in with heavy weapons though, except possibly for an unarmed transport variant.

[FastAndFree]

If I wouldn't feel cheated out of my victory when someone bails on me I guess I wouldn't really care. Although I'm not sure if increasing my kill count by one and getting full XP would make up for the lack of satisfaction of knowing that he just blew up. Even if he gets killed on the ground

[CutterJohn]

If your job is AA, then clearing a sky rat out is a job well done. Someone will deal with the softy he morphed into.

[robocpf1]

The bailing mechanism for me doesn't matter as much as the damage the bailed-out-of plane does when it hits the ground.

Here in PS1, a Reaver can be flying across the cont on it's merry way and see a Galaxy flying in, "Oh look a Galaxy!"

The Reaver burns after it but gets to it right as the Galaxy is dropping troops over the desired drop zone. As with most Galaxy drops, the troops inside brought an EMP, so now the Reaver can't fire it's guns, allowing the troops a safe passage into the base.

BUT WAIT! The Reaver positions itself over the troops and the pilot bails out, sending the Reaver crashing to the ground, killing 7 troops - the pilot then pulls out his Jackhammer and finishes the other 3 off, who got hurt in the explosion.

And he can do that every 5 minutes for as long as he plays that day.

THAT is my issue with bailing. There is always an escape, there is always another life. There is NO COUNTER for this in PS1 other than killing the Reaver, but that's not always a good option because the explosion from killing it could damage the troops even more.

I proposed a simple change - disable bailing if the craft is under the effects of an EMP. There's a really long thread on the OF full of know-it-all "leet" players that haven't been in a Galaxy drop in years saying "that's not that big of a deal, I never see that happen" - well, I'm sorry, it is a big deal. I do Galaxy drops every day in a multitude of situations and that's the one thing I can't deal with and the one thing in PS other than hackers that can make me alt-f4. It is a dire issue that needs to be corrected in PS2.

[Valdae]

2) Is there a "pilot suit" one is required to wear to fly anything? If so, even if they do bail they may be left with not much more than a pistol and a rek.

Actually I like this idea. Pilots should get disadvantaged for bailing. Be kinda cool to go on the run actually, knowing all you had was a pistol or whatever you could scavenge as you made your way to safety.

Could always upgrade the pistol slot to allow a medium infantry weapon if people were moaning too much :rolleyes:

Would still mean no AV, HA, or Decimator etc..

[Aractain]

But... you could just be a cloaker - thats their ENTIRE mission. :P

[Baneblade]

I am and always have been of the opinion you shouldn't even be able to bail until you have reached the point at which bailing can fail.

[Valdae]

But... you could just be a cloaker - thats their ENTIRE mission. :P

Ha no you're thinking in terms of PS1. What we're suggesting is a suit specifically meant for pilots.

[Raymac]

As frustrating as it is to see someone bail just before you blow up the plane, I like the way it is PS1 now. One of the things that I kind of like about someone bailing is if they do it out in the middle of nowhere. I'll just fly down to them, yell out a V-V-Z, then just fly away. Killing them would just let them respawn right away, but by not killing them, they have a long hike to get anywhere which keeps them out of the fight much longer. If they pull out a deci or some plasma nades to suicide, then I'll take them out, otherwise, enjoy playing a walking sim.

[Aractain]

You guys reasons for bailing being in game is that it a) makes a frustrating walking/suicide soluiton or b) gives you some minor "im behind enemy lines with a pistol" gameplay (which is done better by a cloaker and no bailing means no need to bother with a pilot suit).

Those don't seem like good reasons to have bailing.

[Lonehunter]

The ejection failure was the main reason I took a break from the game for a couple years. As a cloaker, when my aircraft is damaged, my job isn't done. There's still plenty of spying and sabotaging to be done.

But I think the elitest killwhores complaining they don't get their kill caused them to implement this. If you're trying to take down an aircraft on the run, you need to be good enough to do it. If the last 10% health takes you 2 minutes, then you're in luck with PS because now your target is flying a coffin, and has no chance of survival.

NO chance of survival, even though I'm certed for this craft. In PS2 I'll have even invested lot's of time improving my skills.

IF they can justify locking pilots in their craft for the one time they want to jump out, they better implement a way around it via skills.

Keep in mind there are ways to design the game to not even need this. If skeeters had a lock on missile that took a minute to reload, you'd trim their health with the nose gun and then finish them with the Rockets.

Or maybe at a certain percentage a craft is disabled, and just starts drifting to the ground. Thus making it more vulnerable, but the pilot can still bail.

[Raymac]

But I think the elitest killwhores complaining they don't get their kill caused them to implement this.

I'd disagree with you here. It really is just about as easy to kill a bailed pilot on the ground as it is to get the last few hits on their plane if they didn't bail. So getting the actual kill wasn't the problem. The problem was there was a huge lack of actual air to air kills, which as a pilot is the frustrating part. Also, if you are an AA Max, it robbed you of a kill alot even though you did your job of removing the aircraft from the battlefield.

[Valdae]

I'd disagree with you here. It really is just about as easy to kill a bailed pilot on the ground as it is to get the last few hits on their plane if they didn't bail. So getting the actual kill wasn't the problem. The problem was there was a huge lack of actual air to air kills, which as a pilot is the frustrating part. Also, if you are an AA Max, it robbed you of a kill alot even though you did your job of removing the aircraft from the battlefield.

Yup, this is spot on.

And whilst its not a massive issue, I'd much rather see people forced into use a galaxy if they want to bail out on a base/tower. It got frustrating waiting for a galaxy to fill up, when most people just grabbed their mossie and flew on to the next target solo.

[Sinj]

I always thought bailing out of a perfectly good aircraft as the pilot was an absolutely ridiculous idea. At the bare minimum there should be a penalty for doing it, even if the aircraft is on fire and crashing at the time.

My suggestions:
1. Health and or armor penalty for bailing as the pilot.
2. If the pilot is killed within a few minutes of bailing the kill counts as an air kill.
3. If the aircraft is still functional it attempts to land on autopilot.

Course there is also the suggestion of not allowing the pilot to bail at all...

[Sirisian]

As frustrating as it is to see someone bail just before you blow up the plane, I like the way it is PS1 now. One of the things that I kind of like about someone bailing is if they do it out in the middle of nowhere. I'll just fly down to them, yell out a V-V-Z, then just fly away. Killing them would just let them respawn right away, but by not killing them, they have a long hike to get anywhere which keeps them out of the fight much longer. If they pull out a deci or some plasma nades to suicide, then I'll take them out, otherwise, enjoy playing a walking sim.
heh I used to carry a single boomer for that very reason. I switched to using my Punisher's grenades. Bail switch item in mid air plant boom before the Mosquito or Reaver can touch me. Worked every time. I hated Mossies attacking my liberator so I never gave them the kill.

I don't really care either way if the bailing system is kept.

[Baneblade]

The ejection failure was the main reason I took a break from the game for a couple years. As a cloaker, when my aircraft is damaged, my job isn't done. There's still plenty of spying and sabotaging to be done.

But I think the elitest killwhores complaining they don't get their kill caused them to implement this. If you're trying to take down an aircraft on the run, you need to be good enough to do it. If the last 10% health takes you 2 minutes, then you're in luck with PS because now your target is flying a coffin, and has no chance of survival.

NO chance of survival, even though I'm certed for this craft. In PS2 I'll have even invested lot's of time improving my skills.

IF they can justify locking pilots in their craft for the one time they want to jump out, they better implement a way around it via skills.

Keep in mind there are ways to design the game to not even need this. If skeeters had a lock on missile that took a minute to reload, you'd trim their health with the nose gun and then finish them with the Rockets.

Or maybe at a certain percentage a craft is disabled, and just starts drifting to the ground. Thus making it more vulnerable, but the pilot can still bail.

Why can't I bail out of my Vanguard and Surge away?

[Raymac]

What if it was something like this: Instead of a bailing mechanism failure, it would be a falling dampner failure. Meaning, you could still jump out of the plane, but you may just splat when you hit the ground, and in turn giving the kill to whoever made you bail.

This way the pilot has to make a risk/reward choice anytime they bail, and it would add considerable risk for those who bail simply as a means of transportation, making them choose to land safely more often than not.

[Sovereign]

Perhaps have it as a triggered occurrence that happens only when such conditions are met where X vehicle has sustained enough damage to specific area of the cockpit as to qualify for Y scenario.

Y being of course the needed end resulting in the malfunction.

[DashRev]

As frustrating as it is to see someone bail just before you blow up the plane, I like the way it is PS1 now. One of the things that I kind of like about someone bailing is if they do it out in the middle of nowhere. I'll just fly down to them, yell out a V-V-Z, then just fly away. Killing them would just let them respawn right away, but by not killing them, they have a long hike to get anywhere which keeps them out of the fight much longer. If they pull out a deci or some plasma nades to suicide, then I'll take them out, otherwise, enjoy playing a walking sim.

If they have no means to kill themselves and you just leave them there, they always have the option of using Instant Action and they're generally back in the fight almost as quickly as if you had just killed them.

But more often than not, by the time the victorious pilot makes it to the ground, the jumper has either boomered himself, plasma'd himself, or someone else has stolen the kill. Even that is assuming he bailed somewhere you can land and kill him, and not within 2 kilometers of a single AA max. Bailing makes it way too easy to deny the kill.

The only other purpose behind bailing is dropping on the top of the enemy tower, and I am certain Phantasm and Galaxy pilots would love another way to contribute to the fight.

[basti]

I think bailing from personal aircraft like the mossy and reaver should be removed entierly. LAnd, or die, its that simple.

[NewSith]

TBH i don't see a point in this discussion, because bailing itself is a question of etiquette, like finishing off pilots in WW1.

It's the same for sniping for example. I hate it when people just runaway without even trying to duel me when I hit them (especially all those who like "shootingheading"; I consider it the most cowardly type of sniping). But I'm not screaming "OMG, make the boltdriver an instagib weapon!", because I find people, worthy enough to duel me and I always send them "thx4duel" tell, no matter the result.

So I support all three options regarding bailing failure.

Removing it is ok. (More Likely)
Leaving it as is is ok. (IDC)
Making it locational damage consequence is ok. (Less Likely)

EDIT:
2Basti:
So we should not have a fast response units, should we?

[Raymac]

If they have no means to kill themselves and you just leave them there, they always have the option of using Instant Action and they're generally back in the fight almost as quickly as if you had just killed them.

But more often than not, by the time the victorious pilot makes it to the ground, the jumper has either boomered himself, plasma'd himself, or someone else has stolen the kill. Even that is assuming he bailed somewhere you can land and kill him, and not within 2 kilometers of a single AA max. Bailing makes it way too easy to deny the kill.


Ah yeah, I keep forgetting that Instant Action works alot better now than it used to, but I think you still run the risk of IA sending you to a tower on a totally different continent.

Also, why on earth would you land to kill someone that bailed? Thats like a tank gunner getting out of the tank to use his rifle.

[ObsidianOne]

It's way too early to simply vote yes or no for this, as others have said, but this sounds like a perfect mechanic to be tied in with the all the certs and customization they plan to have.

Do they go down in 2 AA hits? If so I vote no and hope we get countermeasures. Certs could get you faster countermeasure reloads, faster speed with no countermeasures, or more armor with slower top speed and/or acceleration.

Can they take a decent amount of hits? If so I'd probably vote yes. Certs could get you more armor and/or a better armored ejection system that works with more damage with slower top speed and/or acceleration, maybe an option to add countermeasures, or a back-up ejection system that works in most cases but removes afterburners or only allows a fraction of afterburners.

As long as they stick to customization that balances out with tradeoffs, I'll be happy. I'm really curious which way they'll go with aircraft with the new flight system and faster gameplay.

[Aractain]

So we should not have a fast response units, should we?

If you can't land and get out - you need more than a fast response unit...
(note PS1 example, PS2 might not even have VTOL aircraft at all who knows? But we don't know how things will work there yet)

[Lartnev]

My 2p: You should be able to eject at will but it should never fail. It should have a delay (perhaps reducible with skills). Destroying a vehicle and causing the pilot to eject should count as a vehicle kill and xp awarded accordingly. Aircraft explosions should be able to kill the ejecting pilot if they eject too late.

Note that ejecting is for the pilot, bailing would be available for passengers who might want to get out of the aircraft for their own safety when you start nap of the earth flying ;)

[DashRev]

Also, why on earth would you land to kill someone that bailed? Thats like a tank gunner getting out of the tank to use his rifle.

I'm talking about the victorious pilot having to make it from the sky ceiling to ground level. You fall a lot faster than an aircraft can descend. It takes little more than a second to set up a boomer and kill yourself, and plasma grenades don't take much longer.

If a player bails out of an aircraft and wants to deny you the kill by suicide, chances are they are going to succeed.

[Raymac]

I'm talking about the victorious pilot having to make it from the sky ceiling to ground level. You fall a lot faster than an aircraft can descend. It takes little more than a second to set up a boomer and kill yourself, and plasma grenades don't take much longer.

If a player bails out of an aircraft and wants to deny you the kill by suicide, chances are they are going to succeed.

I see what you are saying. If, and in a dog fight thats a big IF, I have any afterburners left, I can usually get down there in time, but it is a race.

[Talek Krell]

If someone shoots you down, they deserve to get credit for it without having to rummage through the underbrush. If I had my own way I'd remove bailing completely, the only use it seems to get is denying kills and making transport vehicle largely pointless.

[FastAndFree]

heh I used to carry a single boomer for that very reason. I switched to using my Punisher's grenades. Bail switch item in mid air plant boom before the Mosquito or Reaver can touch me. Worked every time. I hated Mossies attacking my liberator so I never gave them the kill.

I don't really care either way if the bailing system is kept.

It actually sorta amuses me when people kill themselves like that. It makes me angry, but it's almost worth it.

At least it saves you ammo - if you are flying a reaver and manage to beat an enemy aircav who then bails, you either have to give up on the kill or waste an entire magazine of rockets which would be better used elswhere

[EASyEightyEight]

We seem to be forgetting one potential change that can be done in Planetside to make bailing no longer necessary. I speak of PhysX. More specifically, the computation of a disabled bird going down and instead of instantaneously going boom the moment it collides with something, it's strikes the ground and skids along until it comes to a stand still. Add in standard FPS "vehicle on fire, GTFO" cues and I think we have an awesome (and far more dramatic) alternative to bailing.

Imagine a loaded Galaxy going down in a forest, but not entirely killing the crew/passengers (maybe wounding them.)

Of course, if the angle of decent is steep enough, or the bird hits something hard enough otherwise, it should instantly explode into scraps of metal as expected.

P.S. I've noticed a common problem when discussing PS2 mechanics: we're fixated on how PS1 played and the restrictions there-in based on yesterday's technology.

[Raymac]

Crash landing, huh? Interesting idea, especially when you factor in hit boxes for vehicles. I'm not sure how it would play, but it would certainly look cool.

And I can't get any support for my Inertial Dampner Failure as opposed to Bail Failure idea? I think it would be great to bail, get some notification of the Dampner Failure, hear a Wilhelm scream, and brace for my body to hit the ground hard in a horrific ragdoll crumble. C'mon, that would be way cooler than, "Sorry you can't bail."

[NewSith]

If you can't land and get out - you need more than a fast response unit...

Tell that to one burster max welcoming you.

[DashRev]

Tell that to one burster max welcoming you.

Phantasm.

Someone wants to quickly infiltrate a tower or base stealthily from an alternate entrance point? That sounds like cloaker playstyle to me. Either become one or make friends with one. They have access to the fastest aircraft and can reach areas without worrying about AA.

The only argument I see for allowing players to use aircraft as a fast-travel system to bail out over an enemy controlled tower is that they want to play the be-all, do-all super soldier who can speed to any area of the map almost as fast as anyone else, hot drop onto an enemy tower, hack their way in, pull out their Heavy Assault and conquer all that they see without relying on teamwork.

Not in PS2.

[NewSith]

...be-all, do-all super soldier who can speed to any area of the map almost as fast as anyone else, hot drop onto an enemy tower, hack their way in, pull out their Heavy Assault and conquer all that they see without relying on teamwork.

Not in PS2.

Do you know what a medic with weapon represents?

[DashRev]

Do you know what a medic with weapon represents?

Enlighten me.

[NewSith]

Enlighten me.

Here, be enlightened:

...the be-all, do-all super soldier... ...without relying on teamwork.

[DashRev]

Here, be enlightened:

A medic with a gun constitutes a super soldier? Boy have I got awesome news for the US Army.

Back to a virtual reality, an advanced medic with a suppressor represents the same level of practical effectiveness as a player with aircav certs, advanced hacking, and heavy assault?

I'll give you a hint, one of them can go anywhere and has the best weaponry while the other one is best suited in a squad or platoon supporting his allies and providing minimal offense. They are certainly not analogous.

[Raymac]

The only argument I see for allowing players to use aircraft as a fast-travel system to bail out over an enemy controlled tower is that they want to play the be-all, do-all super soldier who can speed to any area of the map almost as fast as anyone else, hot drop onto an enemy tower, hack their way in, pull out their Heavy Assault and conquer all that they see without relying on teamwork.

Not in PS2.

There was a time, oh yes, there was a time when not everyone had enough cert points to blow a couple on certing the Mosq. Those were better days.

Now, I know I'll be certing a Reaver, and probably spending alot of time in it if PS1 is any indication. So since I already have it at my disposal, then I'll use my jet to get from Point A to Point B and nothing can stop that. However, when I get there, I really should be gimped by the fact that I flew there myself, so I should have limited armor (something like the pjs now) and only be able to carry a pistol or maybe a sub machine gun. This will help limit the super-soldier that we all seem to hate, while still leaving fast-responders in the game which is a neccessity IMHO.

[NewSith]

A medic with a gun constitutes a super soldier? Boy have I got awesome news for the US Army.

In the RL military op you die from just 1 unlucky bullet in your vital. And that same frigging bullet that hits you in your leg puts you out of commision at least for a week. No field reanimation to full capacity. So, back to VR indeed.

Back to a virtual reality, an advanced medic with a suppressor represents the same level of practical effectiveness as a player with aircav certs, advanced hacking, and heavy assault?

"Duck and cover" vs "duck, cover and self-heal". Which one wins?

I'll give you a hint, one of them can go anywhere and has the best weaponry while the other one is best suited in a squad or platoon supporting his allies and providing minimal offense. They are certainly not analogous.

Competitive BF2. 6 out of 8 people are medics. Wonder why? And FYI I was in that team as a medic. I was a BF2142 medic too, TF2 medic, I AM a medic in PSide, I've been one of the best medics in Global Agenda. So please don't tell me stories about your knowledge of medicine and think carefully of how self-heal ability can be abused.

[basti]

There was a time, oh yes, there was a time when not everyone had enough cert points to blow a couple on certing the Mosq. Those were better days.

Now, I know I'll be certing a Reaver, and probably spending alot of time in it if PS1 is any indication. So since I already have it at my disposal, then I'll use my jet to get from Point A to Point B and nothing can stop that. However, when I get there, I really should be gimped by the fact that I flew there myself, so I should have limited armor (something like the pjs now) and only be able to carry a pistol or maybe a sub machine gun. This will help limit the super-soldier that we all seem to hate, while still leaving fast-responders in the game which is a neccessity IMHO.

And i think we have that. The MOS system (classes, but i bloddy call it MOS from now on because thats WAY better. See here: http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36811 ) allows this quite well by limiting players ability in a single life. Yea, you can get fast from A to B if you want, heck with a few days of skill training everyone could propably grab a mossy and get from A to B quick. But once your dropped on the tower, your useless, or at least gimped to the point that you cannot just hack the tower all by yourself. You may manage to fight your way down if you got skill, but once infront of the CC, you would just notice that you lack that REK. ;)

[DashRev]

"Duck and cover" vs "duck, cover and self-heal". Which one wins?
In PlanetSide? They both lose. If you're playing super soldier all by yourself and you try to duck behind a corner to heal, the enemy is going to follow you and you're going to get caught with your med app out.

Competitive BF2. 6 out of 8 people are medics. Wonder why? And FYI I was in that team as a medic. I was a BF2142 medic too, TF2 medic, I AM a medic in PSide, I've been one of the best medics in Global Agenda. So please don't tell me stories about your knowledge of medicine and think carefully of how self-heal ability can be abused.
You're not the only one here that plays video games. Just to make this perfectly clear, this is not BF2, this is not TF2 or GA.

I have thousands of hours in both TF2 and GA independently, and the medics in both of them indeed have offensive guns, but they are certainly not super soldiers. I'm not even entirely sure why you're trying to make a thread about aircraft bail mechanisms into an argument about medics with guns being super soldiers.

My point is, an infantry grunt with access to the best weaponry, armor, and the ability to hack into an enemy controlled building needs to be limited somewhere. Having an aircraft to drop themselves anywhere they wish to be is a poor reason for players wanting to able to bail out.

If you think medics with guns are overpowered and need to be limited also, that's great, but why are you arguing it in this thread?

[EASyEightyEight]

In the RL military op you die from just 1 unlucky bullet in your vital. And that same frigging bullet that hits you in your leg puts you out of commision at least for a week. No field reanimation to full capacity. So, back to VR indeed.



"Duck and cover" vs "duck, cover and self-heal". Which one wins?



Competitive BF2. 6 out of 8 people are medics. Wonder why? And FYI I was in that team as a medic. I was a BF2142 medic too, TF2 medic, I AM a medic in PSide, I've been one of the best medics in Global Agenda. So please don't tell me stories about your knowledge of medicine and think carefully of how self-heal ability can be abused.

While true, he's still only armed with just an assault rifle or a sweeper shotgun. The guys inside the tower will more than likely have precisely what was designed to chew up softies like him. There's also the issue with medics in those other game often having a limitless supply of healing capability. In PS1 at least, there was a limit, even if it took a while to burn through it all.

There's also the other (possibly in PS2) attribute, armor, which without any your hp won't last you a quarter of a second of sustained fire. Basically, a Medic all in all may have 2 to 3 lives before they'll need an engineer nearby or they're essentially an infiltrator without the cloaking but instead an assault rifle. And that's using PS1's numbers on an agile armor.

Basically, it's semi-true that Medics will be the closest to the unstoppable portion of PS1's "uber-soldat," the armor mechanic (and this is speculative on there being such a mechanic in PS2) will level things out a bit.

For what it's worth though, I won't mind the self-healing guys as long they can only carry medium assault and maybe special assault tops. Everyone else is the real threat (to my life) and should need the support to stay that way.

Wow this went off topic.

[NewSith]

...but why are you arguing it in this thread?

Because I prefer going solo. And this "forced teamwork" drives me nuts. End of argument.

[EASyEightyEight]

Because I prefer going solo. And this "forced teamwork" drives me nuts. End of argument.

Welcome to the "MMO" of an MMO. I prefer solo too and even I know I gotta take my non-existent social skills and practice them for success.

[Lunarchild]

We seem to be forgetting one potential change that can be done in Planetside to make bailing no longer necessary. I speak of PhysX. More specifically, the computation of a disabled bird going down and instead of instantaneously going boom the moment it collides with something, it's strikes the ground and skids along until it comes to a stand still. Add in standard FPS "vehicle on fire, GTFO" cues and I think we have an awesome (and far more dramatic) alternative to bailing.

Imagine a loaded Galaxy going down in a forest, but not entirely killing the crew/passengers (maybe wounding them.)

Of course, if the angle of decent is steep enough, or the bird hits something hard enough otherwise, it should instantly explode into scraps of metal as expected.

P.S. I've noticed a common problem when discussing PS2 mechanics: we're fixated on how PS1 played and the restrictions there-in based on yesterday's technology.

I like this :) In addition, bailing could work different too: How about if you do bail from your aircraft, you get thrown into the air, out of (or very slight) control over your trajectory, and to top it all off, AA missiles still can still get a lock on you. Add a parachute of some kind, and make bailing from that thing quite lethal if you're not near the ground...

That would kinda make bailing like it is in real life: a good idea to get out of a fireball, but you're pretty much a sitting duck till you're back on the ground... Guess who'll be shooting at you?

[DashRev]

Because I prefer going solo. And this "forced teamwork" drives me nuts. End of argument.

I'm not suggesting that everyone be a part of a team. There are plenty of gameplay styles that support playing solo. What I'm saying is that if you want to be solo, you should expect to sacrifice some of your viability. Most PlanetSide players do not want to see one-man armies.

Want to solo?
- Play a Cloaker
- Play a Sniper
- Pick a single-person vehicle

Hell, you can even play a solo infantry if thats what you want, but then you need to accept that you're going to have some limitations. Whether that limitation comes in the form of either asking someone else for a ride, or having to settle for a slower mode of transportation, or even something else.

PlanetSide is designed as a teamwork-based game. There is a reason you don't see PS-style squads, and platoons, and outfits in BF2 and COD. Don't expect to fill every role all by yourself. If that's not something you can accept, then I don't know what else to tell you, maybe you'd just be happier in one of those other games.

In PlanetSide, a coordinated whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Two players supporting each other are more effective than two players pretending they're super soldiers.

[Lunarchild]

Please discuss the solo-play medic thingy in one of the umpteen topics that are about this already. I don't think we need to discuss that here as well ^^

[Evilmp]

As long as bailing is an option, there will be tower droppers.

I'm sure with the new towers coming into PS2 outfits could upgrade them to defend against these types of players.


Either way, about the bailing mechanism:

I do like the idea of implementing PhysX into the aircraft's destruction. It seems much more awesome than simply exploding in a big fireball - I'd shit myself if I turned around to see a Gal trying to crash land on top of me and my squad, and I bet you not a single one of them would be angry at a death as cinematic and real as that. Outrunning it would be a mini-game in itself.

Even cooler would be surviving to aid the passengers whose bail mech failed yet survived the touchdown.

[Lonehunter]

I love all the ideas about bailing, and being thrown in a random direction, still getting locked on by AA, taking falling dmg, or even a disabled vehicle that has to skid to a halt. Bailing out of an aircraft should certainly have a risk vs reward feeling.


Why can't I bail out of my Vanguard and Surge away?

Totally different discussion lol

[Talek Krell]

Totally different discussion lol

Doesn't sound very different to me.


I'm liking the idea of having aircraft actually crash. I'd specifically add that the person who shot it down should get a kill credit, and I'm concerned about the exploitability of it. I think you'd see people hovering their planes over things and waiting to be shot down, not unlike what they do now with bailing out and letting it fall out of the sky.

[FastAndFree]

Remember when your plane could go out of control in PS1?
That was awesome

[Vecha]

People play Planetside just for the kills?


Guess I'm doing it wrong.

[Vancha]

Wonder why? And FYI I was in that team as a medic. I was a BF2142 medic too, TF2 medic, I AM a medic in PSide, I've been one of the best medics in Global Agenda. So please don't tell me stories about your knowledge of medicine and think carefully of how self-heal ability can be abused.
Woah, who said anything about medics self-healing? :lol:


P.S. I've noticed a common problem when discussing PS2 mechanics: we're fixated on how PS1 played and the restrictions there-in based on yesterday's technology.
Yup, along with other games too it seems. I've been trying to avoid doing this and yet still I do it. If ever you needed proof that humans are terrible at picturing things without references, this forum is it.

I love the crash landing idea, by the way. I don't know if it'd be possible, but I'm not putting anything beyond the new wonder-engine.