Making the bang bus more popular

[ShowNoMercy]

So I have been seeing a lot of talk about the galaxy and what it's potential applications/limitations in PS2 will be. For the record I think the gal should stay as is with slight variations for integration with the skill tree.

The Problem

The bang bus had very little usage in PS1 compared to the galaxy, here are the main times I witnessed it's usage over a gal or other vehicles.

- When an outfit wanted to air drop a target and didnt have an EMP ready. Simply load up a bang bus into a loadie and drop it over a base - free emp. (this only worked later in the game).

- When on cont needing to transport people to a base close by, in many cases this was because tank drivers were not abundantly available or there was no tech.

- As one man suicide vehicles for clearing CE (this was before and after the emp addition)(also mostly on bridges).


As you know, the bang bus was never the best choice, it was simply convenient. One of the things many outfit discovered was that with an experienced group of players even the gal was not the best choice, since it is a large target that screams "OS me". By using mossies to hot drop then hacking out equipment, Maxes could be obtained on sight and the OS target was avoided. Additionally, 12 mossies over a base can virtually take over the skies in most cases.

So those two methods combined are considered the most efficient way to get troops on target. The bang bus however, was extremely slow, had to deal with ground obstacles, and was a huge target (literally and figuratively). Additionally, the bang bus was best at attacking courtyards, but the range on its weapons was horrible since they were so high up, not to mentioned it got jammed almost immediately. So why use a bang bus? the answer - dont. And people didn't for the most part.

The Solution

The question I keep asking myself when imagining changes for the bang bus is "why use it over a gal". Both serve essentially the same roll of transporting relatively large amounts of troops that are heavily armed. The gal just happens to win in all categories (speed, survivability, and precision), that is to say it gets to the target faster, has a better chance of making it, and can put the troops where is wants more effectively.

I say merge the bang bus with the router, make it so once the bang bus gets within a certain range it can drop troops off to a router pad that has been pre-deployed. The range on the pad would be short enough to where the bus would have to be in the CY to deploy into the base (to make a PS1 comparison). By doing so it still loses in the speed and survivability categories, but wins in the precision category. Also, a 4th category is added, "stealth". A gal can be seen a mile away and you can see where the troops drop (or guess), but a bang bus driving up and offloading to a pad would make the enemy unsure of where the troops landed. That would give it an advantage over the gal, the only issue is that someone would need to pre-deploy a pad for them (which isnt always easy).

Some ideas to reduce OP nature of proposal:

- Indication of when troops leave the transport (im thinking beam of light exiting the top or some shit like that) couple that with a possible directional indication.

- Inability for multiple bang buses to offload to 1 pad in a short period of time.

- Cloaker class unable to deploy pad

- Pad takes time to deploy and can be set to empire or squad/outfit only.

- Range of pad to bang bus relatively small

- unable to be transported in a loadie

Think about it:

how cool would it be to try and get a small group of 3-5 into a base then deploy a pad and hold it for a minute at which point 10-12 guys instantly pop in and re-enforce the position.

or deploying it in a base a minute before cap for quick extraction. This would make the bang bus the premier vehicle for inserting and removing soldier. The galaxy would still be better at moving troops quickly over long distances and would be much better for dropping into areas that are heavily defended.

Please offer constructive criticism, undoubtedly someone will simply post "thats dumb". If you feel it is a dumb idea state why, and above all else list some ways to increase the bang bus's usage.

[Brusi]

I think with the new upgradeable vehicles system, ground transport might become more viable through player creativity.

Imagine how much more viable it would be as transport with say a AA flack cannons mounted on top or moderate increase to top speed?

[Rbstr]

I felt it was slow and not very powerful as a vehicle. It was also ridiculously huge.

Considering maxes could basically just run places, there was very little reason for it over a deliverer. Especially when so many people have vehicle certs.

[NapalmEnima]

IIRC, the devs have already stated that you'll be able to spawn on bang busses. Presumably it'll be in some way inferior (as far as spawning goes) to a dedicated AMS-type vehicle. Maybe similar to squad spawns in that you arrive in a drop pod, and there is a cooldown (though you'd imagine it'd be noticeably shorter than the squad leader spawn cooldown). Maybe has its own spawn tube and equipment terminal.

I've also noticed that they're more popular now that they are more heavily armed, though I have yet to see the weapons fully crewed.

I'm tellin ya: Gun Ports. Give the passengers something to do, even if it isn't particularly effective, instead of just watching.

It'd also be cool to have some Command & Control gear in bases and larger vehicles that would improve a squad/platoon/outfit leaders abilities in some way.

All those control panels that don't actually do anything in PS's current bases? Yeah those. Make'em Do Stuff.

[Rbstr]

Part of the way to get rid of it's disposable nature (at least how i've witnessed it recently) would be to make it more of a decent combatant with only 2 people in it while having the transport slots.

Make it a bit more anti-infantry and set up a rock/paper/scissors of tanks/infantry/vehicles a bit stronger than it is now.

[Soothsayer]

Bang bus at release was much faster and decent for sitting back and pelting a CY, fairly fun and lots of survivability. That is to say, it was fun enough to do some runs with it but I would never have considered it an essential vehicle.

Then they removed most of the speed and it became not fun. Where I could originally weave through fairly thick forests at a good clip, it became impossible with the crappy handling that was later introduced.

I don't know that it needs a function role, I'd like to see it rank lower in damage than a mbt but higher in armour. EMP optional.

As for the router idea, I think there are too many rules. Needs to be balanced in a simple and straightforward method. I'm sure it would open up new depth of play, but the restrictions kill the value of the idea for me.

[kaffis]

Allow it to transport 1 or 2 more MAXes (but each extra MAX transported decreases REXO capacity by 1), and make the MAXes in semi-open sockets that let them shoot their own weapons (and ammo) as "gunners."

Use resource scarcity and requirements to balance ground transport with galaxies and dedicated 1-2 man combat vehicles (mosquitoes, reavers, MBTs, lightnings) and thus keep ground transports as the most cost-efficient way to get X number of people from point A to point B, where, say, X > 4. Make sure that ground transport is suitably fast, and that new spawning mechanisms (spawn on squaddie, spawn on galaxy, and, for that matter, AMS) don't simply obviate the need for transport the majority of the time.

Give ground transports enough armor that they're not considered free kills and rolling coffins. Remember, a full Sundy is 10 times as tempting a target as a Lightning, and is going to draw fire for that reason even if it's less of an (immediate) threat.

Aside from those, I don't have much more input, except to say that, as a long-time bus driver, I support any and all efforts to make people want to climb aboard when I pull one.

[ShowNoMercy]

IIRC, the devs have already stated that you'll be able to spawn on bang busses. Presumably it'll be in some way inferior (as far as spawning goes) to a dedicated AMS-type vehicle. Maybe similar to squad spawns in that you arrive in a drop pod, and there is a cooldown (though you'd imagine it'd be noticeably shorter than the squad leader spawn cooldown). Maybe has its own spawn tube and equipment terminal.

I've also noticed that they're more popular now that they are more heavily armed, though I have yet to see the weapons fully crewed.

I'm tellin ya: Gun Ports. Give the passengers something to do, even if it isn't particularly effective, instead of just watching.

It'd also be cool to have some Command & Control gear in bases and larger vehicles that would improve a squad/platoon/outfit leaders abilities in some way.

All those control panels that don't actually do anything in PS's current bases? Yeah those. Make'em Do Stuff.

Where did you hear that they were making it a spawn point? i hadn't heard that before. I don't understand why they would do that since it kinda defeats the purpose of transporting people as it would automatically transport people to it as opposed to in it.

When talking about making PS2 more popular and accelerating game play, occupying the time people spend sitting in a transport with something to do would be very helpful. One way to do such is to make gals and bang buses have open cabin designs. The cargo bay door drops and people physically walk in instead of hitting "E" to load. By doing so you open many doors for time occupying activity, some ideas include:

Navigation Console - player sitting here can overlay a path for the driver to follow, gets rid of "youre going the wrong way"

Targeting Console - player sitting here can highlight target for gunners to shot at, gets rid of "every shoot at that"

Communication Console - player sitting here interacts with other vehicles to download or upload nav and targeting information

Gun ports - players not using turrets can shoot their weapons out of the vehicle, time occupying but not very effective since you will be shooting a moving target while moving.

Equipment term or trunk access - allows players to exchange gear or replenish ammo.

Healing - since its an open cabin, medics can attend to the wounded on the go

Finally, your comment about making panels in bases do stuff, I agree. The wall turrets should have been remote controlled from inside the base until they were destroyed. Similarly, cameras could be setup around the base that could be displayed inside. This "nerve center" would be a primary target when entering a base, much like the tubes or gen is in PS1.

[Thoreaux]

Integrating a router function into the Bang-Bus is a possibility, but... I don't like it. I can't really articulate a good reason other than, "it doesn't fit the role".

The Sunderer does need a pretty radical change IMO. It is supposed to be a gate-crasher, yes? So then enhance its ability to crash gates. Instead of an emp ability, give it straight-up invulnerability. Give it an uber-shield that is active for 10 (or so) seconds, through which it cannot be harmed. Give it the ability to really ram its way through just about anything by sheer mass. Make it so that when enemies see one coming they shit themselves.

Also, double its carrying capacity (it's frackin huge ffs) and make it pricey. It needs to be both uncommon, and potent enough to single handedly bust down the front door. For bonus points, give it the ability to auto-hack nearby doors so its passengers can charge straight in.

Then people would use it.

[CutterJohn]

A gate crasher needs a method of launching people off the ground so they don't immediately die on egress, or something to protect them while they make for the door, because as you unstealthily barrel past the lines, you will be noticed, and followed.

A teleport, a pod launcher, or a large bubble shield that is big enough you can park and still have room to run into a door while inside it.

It would also be wise to stop considering it a transport vehicle, outside those specific circumstances. Considering the way the class system works, hitching a ride will be the least of peoples worries.

[Valdae]

The bang bus needs more armor, or a higher top speed.

But honestly, the best suggestion for making it popular is increase the seating capacity to something higher than a Galaxy. Like 20 or so. People shouldn't need to have a vehicle cert to get around during the game.

[ECM]

A gate crasher needs a method of launching people off the ground so they don't immediately die on egress, or something to protect them while they make for the door, because as you unstealthily barrel past the lines, you will be noticed, and followed.

A teleport, a pod launcher, or a large bubble shield that is big enough you can park and still have room to run into a door while inside it.

It would also be wise to stop considering it a transport vehicle, outside those specific circumstances. Considering the way the class system works, hitching a ride will be the least of peoples worries.

This is something I can agree with, a brute force attack vehicle. This would be another great way a team can assualt a base together. Team base strategy is the reason I play ps1 and it should always prevail over a one man army.

[Bags]

Team play currently does prevail over one man army.

[DviddLeff]

Spawn point, equipment terminal on the back, weapon choice through specialisation and allow the user to swap out normal seats for MAX seats to really make it an assault vehicle, that's what I would do to make it more popular.

However as it stands for the whole thing is a waste of 11 troops most of the time, with the glut of available cert points that could be 11 air cav, or 5 tanks, etc. This won't get better in the sequel where everyone can access everything whenever they want...

[exLupo]

However as it stands for the whole thing is a waste of 11 troops most of the time, with the glut of available cert points that could be 11 air cav, or 5 tanks, etc.

A customized transport with 11 trained mixed small arms troops with little to no air or tank training who arrive safely will do more for the indoor fight than 11 poorly trained mixed small arms troops who get there with their own highly trained vehicle or 11 poorly trained air/tank troops who don't make it there at all.

While everyone will be able to do everything in theory, they seem to be following the EVE model which means "in theory" is going to be inaccessible before the game shuts down. Unless they haven't learned any lessons from BR40 but I would assume they have.

I'm putting a lot of faith that they won't screw up again and let everyone cert everything. They're talking up specialization so hard that it'd totally fly in the face of everything they're saying.

Oo.. and on top of everything else, 11 trained boots from a small arms specialist outfit means even more. PS1's era of "everyone has a mossie" will, hopefully, phase out when you have to choose whether or not you want to be good indoors or out. Troops may have quick transport but I'd be surprised if it were any good for anything involving enemy presence.

[FIREk]

I would prefer it if the Sunderer wasn't added to PS2 in anything resembling its current form. A huge truck on the battlefield? That just looks wrong.

Instead, it should be a large, proper-looking, amphibious (because why not?) IFV. Preferably on tracks. Ideally much like the US Marines AAV transport:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/USMarines_AAV_Iraq_apr_2004_116_hires.jpg

http://www.enemyforces.net/apc/aav7_2.jpg

[CutterJohn]

A customized transport with 11 trained mixed small arms troops with little to no air or tank training who arrive safely will do more for the indoor fight than 11 poorly trained mixed small arms troops who get there with their own highly trained vehicle or 11 poorly trained air/tank troops who don't make it there at all.

Assuming they can arrive. Pushing a front door on ground is not a very reliable delivery method.

Unless, of course, the base isn't very contested, but then whats the point anyway?


@Firek: I'm more of a Bradley man. Has a nice turret and a couple of missiles. :)

[Grimster]

Hmm bang bus. That sounds like something one would use to bang chicks in. :D :D

[Sovereign]

Instead, it should be a large, proper-looking, amphibious (because why not?) IFV. Preferably on tracks. Ideally much like the US Marines AAV transport:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/USMarines_AAV_Iraq_apr_2004_116_hires.jpg

http://www.enemyforces.net/apc/aav7_2.jpg

Ha, I'd prefer an AAAV bus in the next game call it the 'magic school bus of death' :D

I could see this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/Expeditionary_Fighting_Vehicle.jpg/800px-Expeditionary_Fighting_Vehicle.jpg) designs potential in game..

[FIREk]

Ha, I'd prefer an AAAV bus in the next game call it the 'magic school bus of death' :D

I could see this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/Expeditionary_Fighting_Vehicle.jpg/800px-Expeditionary_Fighting_Vehicle.jpg) designs potential in game..

Wow, that's a lot of badassery behind just one more 'A' in the name. ;) Yeah, this would work nicely, although I like the old AAV's looks better. Also, the AAV has similar dimensions to the Sunderer (relatively narrow and tall).

[TerminatorUK]

The Sunderer was a pretty awesome vehicle pre-balance pass. The rof and accuracy were like lightning 75mm cannons. In PS2 i'd love to see the return of the Sunderer but with better weapons, armour (in the form of damage degradation galaxy gunship style), a strong shield bubble when stationary to protect disembarking troops and pod launchers ala BF2142 apc style to get on titans

[ShowNoMercy]

I'm hearing a lot of great suggestions, but many of them pervert the role of the bang bus (or at least what I thought it was) - a transport. Anyone who said it was a gate crasher seems to have the right idea, so comments along the lines of "better weapons" dont make sense for a gate crasher unless they are designed to clear a path. I'm thinking a main gun that can move objects with its concussive force, since they are adding physx to vehicles it would be possible to do so i think.

Also, what does everyone think of the open cabin idea for the bang bus along with a ramp for exit and entry of all passengers as opposed to doors. I mean this thing should feel like an APC and not a minivan (which is how it currently feels).
O also, maybe small cannons that fire jammer nades for disabling vehicles and CE. This thing should now be destroying vehicles in my opinion, so why give it the ability? if it can just disable them that is totally sufficient to make it a badass gate crasher. Thoughts and concerns?

[EASyEightyEight]

I really liked the deployable shield idea actually. Where the Galaxy can drop people on top of anything, the Sunderer can quickly, if most likely temporarily, offer a secure area for troops to deploy from, so we don't have guys jumping out and getting gunned down instantaneously. Park it in front of the front door and charge on in. No one drops a Galaxy load of troops on top of the front door, it's practically suicide.

I still like the idea of making it a rearming station for infantry and vehicles though. It needs some reason to stick around. If all it's (capable of) doing is shuffling troops from point A to point B, I might as well board a Galaxy. Gets the job done faster and much more reliably.

[Soothsayer]

Yeah I like deployable shield as a new feature of the bang bus.

Entrenches its role as getting a squad into a contested area.

Don't think it should be an offensive weapon on its own, its the troops inside that should make it dangerous to attack.

Needs to be quicker (not fast) and with high (or even highest) surviveability.

Should be the most effective land based troop transport for breaching CY's or their equivalent in PS2.

[Raymac]

Hmm bang bus. That sounds like something one would use to bang chicks in. :D :D

LOL I was just wondering how many people actually knew the orgins of the name "bang bus" since it is a little dated. Pr0n doesn't hold up well over time, just look at any made in the 70's.

[Rbstr]

pod launchers ala BF2142 apc style to get on titans

That'd be really cool, you could use the thing to get on top of towers and shit.

[Bags]

1.) Give it a loud horn
2.) Give no other vehicle a horn
3.) ???
4.) Bangbus is now the most popular vehicle

[Sentrosi]

You all are forgetting one thing, Orbital Strikes. It just takes one OS to stop your front door/back door assault. You can say the same thing about a Galaxy drop, but at least the Galaxy can get away.

I like the idea of a shock troop carrier though. Fight to the door, clear the area of CE (EMP blast from the front of the vehicle for example), drop off, and leave to quickly get back to the lines.

[CutterJohn]

Pretty sure most drivers would bail with the rest. Getting in would be impressive enough. Getting out safe again? Don't ask for miracles. It'd take a ton more hitpoints to pull off, which would make it a lot easier for people who will just bail with the rest of the infantry anyway.

[exLupo]

Assuming they can arrive. Pushing a front door on ground is not a very reliable delivery method.

It's up to the devs to make sure that ground transports have a point. Getting people to the front door is fine if you've got the courtyard. Simply getting RExos and MAXes to the fight has its own merit. Dev needs to make sure gal drops and mossies don't 100% invalidate ground transports in PS2.

[CutterJohn]

Air goes faster, so less warning over the base and faster transit times. It flies over CE. Most infantry and land vehicles can't reliably attack it, it flies over the choke point where the ground battle is stalled anyway, and it can drop the grunts off anywhere.

Ground vehicles are slow. They can get pounded by vehicles, CE, infantry AV. Can get hung up on obstacles. They have to go through the navigable parts of the map, which is likely where the fighting is at anyway, or take a long, long detour.

Air has some huge, huge, huge advantages, and I don't see how you could put boots on the ground as reliably with a ground transport without over buffing the ground transport vehicles or heavily nerfing galaxies.

I expect ground transports to be largely useless in PS2, same as PS1, and most every game that features them.

[exLupo]

I expect ground transports to be largely useless in PS2, same as PS1, and most every game that features them.

With the galaxy as it is, ground transports are at a real disadvantage. Looking at other games with both air and ground and the air is usually pretty fragile and doesn't carry many bodies while ground can take a beating and hold more. Gals can both take hits and bring the whole gang.

The only way I can think of making sundies and delis worth much without making them rolling tanks is to make gals extremely hard to acquire and the others super accessible. Imagine, if you will, only being able to get gals on the same continent and from a DSC. It'd make that one base a critical capture point and, if people wanted to get to the fight in RExo, ground transports may be the only option. That or a horde of harassers, atvs, buggies and skyguards.

edit:
One of the early key points in PS1 transportation revolved around what you were in and what you had certed. Eventually, cert proliferation as well as agile+ha made a variety of hot drops (gal for rexo/max or mossie for agile) cut away at any real use for ground vehicles. The new sundies really are good but when you can just zip back to sanc and grab a gal, what's the point?

[CutterJohn]

The only way I can think of making sundies and delis worth much without making them rolling tanks is to make gals extremely hard to acquire and the others super accessible. Imagine, if you will, only being able to get gals on the same continent and from a DSC. It'd make that one base a critical capture point and, if people wanted to get to the fight in RExo, ground transports may be the only option. That or a horde of harassers, atvs, buggies and skyguards.

If people want to get to the fight in a rexo I'm assuming they will mostly show up in vehicles(either driving or gunning), find the ams, change their kit, and run in. Or just run in, die, and spawn at the ams.

[Peacemaker]

I think a good solution would be something ALA BF2142. Ground transports have launch pods to rapidly offload its contingent of troops, spreading them out while doing so. The game is supposed to be spread out from bases more, so depending on balance and how they design it, a tank might not beable to hold ground very long without infantry. Deli becomes Bradley IFV, deli becomes.... Super IFV? Without the need infantry to support vehicles in the open ground transport won't be used. The whole concept of Ground Transport is to keep the riflemen at the front lines. The concept of air transports is to make over, and behind the front lines with little to no vehicle support.

Short story, Infantry need vehicles to support them and vehicles need infantry to support them. To keep up with the vehicles, infantry need ground transport to deploy them in position to support the vehicles.

[Valdae]

Does no-one else think increasing the troop capacity to 20 would make the bang bus worthwhile?! I thought it was my Isaac Newton/apple moment :(

[Peacemaker]

You mean make it even more of a bullet magnet? Reaver packs would vaporize that kind of a target.

[Valdae]

Meh, you can say that for any ground vehicle that doesnt have AV. I think we're all taking for granted that the sunny will be a little more powerful this time around.

[EASyEightyEight]

I think a good solution would be something ALA BF2142. Ground transports have launch pods to rapidly offload its contingent of troops, spreading them out while doing so. The game is supposed to be spread out from bases more, so depending on balance and how they design it, a tank might not beable to hold ground very long without infantry. Deli becomes Bradley IFV, deli becomes.... Super IFV? Without the need infantry to support vehicles in the open ground transport won't be used. The whole concept of Ground Transport is to keep the riflemen at the front lines. The concept of air transports is to make over, and behind the front lines with little to no vehicle support.

Short story, Infantry need vehicles to support them and vehicles need infantry to support them. To keep up with the vehicles, infantry need ground transport to deploy them in position to support the vehicles.

Thinking about it a little more, I can see the practicality of this idea too, only it might work on a deliverer as well. They did mention there would be a more vertical element to their maps, such as scaffolding between canyon walls, and giving ground transports the power to get troopers up to those locations would be a huge plus. If AA presence is very high, it might be preferable to deploy troops from below a position rather than above.

[exLupo]

If people want to get to the fight in a rexo I'm assuming they will mostly show up in vehicles(either driving or gunning), find the ams, change their kit, and run in. Or just run in, die, and spawn at the ams.

More reason to change the paradigm. That or totally remove ground transports. If the game's designed with their non-use in mind, save the dev time.

[CutterJohn]

More reason to change the paradigm. That or totally remove ground transports. If the game's designed with their non-use in mind, save the dev time.

While I don't think players in a dedicated ground transport role would get much business(without some serious nerfs to the expectation of what galaxies will be like, or vehicle availability), I can still see that it would occasionally be necessary, or at least handy. A good vehicle with a viable role that also just happens to be a troop transport wouldn't be a bad thing.

[Lunarchild]

I think they'll see a lot more use if planes are harder to control. Especially requiring a minimal speed for them to stay airborne. This means landing and take-off will be more difficult as well.

This will make it a lot harder for plane drivers and gunners to kill small targets, like infantry and MAXes. Speed can be both an advantage and a disadvantage if played properly. And if it's hard to land a galaxy, it will be used a lot less as a taxi from one battlefield to another, as it will be easier to grab a bang bus.

[Haro]

I think the best way to make apcs more viable is to buff AA. Galaxies simply had way too much go their own way in PS1. They could take just about any AA on the nose long enough to drop of troops and usually get away (speaking as a long time gal pilot myself) and as long as that's possible, no way ground transports are viable. Without a decent counter, the Galaxy had everything the sunderer had and more in terms of transport ability.

On a side note, revamping the design of the transports would be great. The deliverer and the sunderer both looked ridiculous.

[Soothsayer]

On a side note, revamping the design of the transports would be great. The deliverer and the sunderer both looked ridiculous.

I agree with what you said, except this!

The sunderer should look more truckish...

[Valdae]

What part if them exactly, do u think looks especially ridiculous?

[Bags]

I love deliverers. Look cool.

[kaffis]

Galaxies might be a little too durable, for starters. In Planetside, they were legitimately able to penetrate enemy lines pretty deeply and pretty reliably. I think I'd shy away from reducing armor, but there needs to be more evenly distributed anti-air, rather than just clusters of threatening anti-air around active engagements.

Making some automated (CE? Base defenses?) AA would work towards removing a Galaxy's carte blanche license to fly around behind enemy lines all it wants, without making a single user with an AA able to rip it apart in a single-pass flyby.

In addition, I think the way to more generally make ground transport useful is to make them the transport of choice for *loading* troops in hot zones. Make Galaxies very vulnerable during landing and take-off, and give people reasons to want to get in a transport in areas other than secure, friendly territory, and you're in business. Right now, the only time you get into a Galaxy (or most any transport) is when you spawn, and when you've cleared and captured a base.

[NapalmEnima]

Heavy duty AA that didn't track very well would do the trick just fine. Not so effective against the zippy-zippy craft, but able to BEAT THE TAR out of Galaxies.

I wouldn't have any problem with an AA gun that could take out two galaxies at full speed before they got over their target.

The options then become:
1) Take it out. Another fun thing for infiltrators to do. Maybe arty, whatever.

2) Bring along enough bodies that you can afford to lose the first two air transports.


Yeah... speaking of arty... make bases choose between the Heavy AA and a nice artillery piece. Not the end-all-be-all, but something capable of bringing a serious hurtin'. One shotting infantry (over a fairly wide area) that were out in the open sounds quite reasonable for a dedicated AP round. Ditto for dedicated AV. If you sit in one spot long enough for the round to actually get to you, and its a round designed to take out whatever you happen to be... it should bloody well take you out.

Now there's a cool command ability: Fire Mission.

"Please blow the tar out of coordinates X,Y. That round was a little short. Okay, dead on. Fire For Effect"

And watch stuff go kaboom.

The down side of arty is that its not all that much fun to Actually Do. You just point at some spot in the sky and pull the trigger. Not very satisfying.

Two possible solutions:
1) Make it more interesting. A: Wire guided missiles. B: Shell cams
2) Phat Lewt (or BEP in this case). Blowing up lots of stuff should pretty much rake in the BEP, but then that's kind of a given. Just don't reduce their BEP because they're slaughtering folks "the easy way".

So make it more fun, or make it "pay" well.

[kaffis]

I think artillery as you describe would rouse complaints of being "spammy."

Perhaps if the ammunition for such a thing would tie into the resource system, the incentive to spam doorways (or whatever the equivalent would be) would be restrained and curtailed.

[waldizzo]

The resource system may come into play here. Maybe a galaxy will be way more expensive than a bang bus or require some rare resources which the bang bus does not.

[Valdae]

The resource system may come into play here. Maybe a galaxy will be way more expensive than a bang bus or require some rare resources which the bang bus does not.

Logic ftw

[Hamma]

Aye and a very good point :lol:

[kaffis]

Aye and a very good point :lol:
That I made back in post #7 in this thread (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showpost.php?p=581471&postcount=7)... ;)

But yes, that's the quickest, dirtiest way to do it.

I don't believe that it should be considered the only step to solving the problem, because forcing a clearly inferior choice onto the user solely due to resource scarcity or vehicle unavailability is somewhat clumsy and doesn't promote having the most fun for the players.

Think of it this way. If you'd always rather have a Galaxy, the Sunderer (or other ground transports) isn't very glamorous or enticing to cert or specialize in. If Galaxies are difficult to come by, and you have to "settle" for a Sundy, then the people who are pressured to cert up in Sunderer driving are going to feel resentful that it's necessary, and wish their outfit (for example) didn't already have too many Galaxy pilots and "needs" Sunderer drivers instead. He's never going to be particularly happy about driving that Sunderer, even if it's damn useful for him to do so.

Likewise, the Galaxy pilot, who has a blast because the Galaxy is always useful and is thus a well-respected and glamorous role, runs the risk of either not getting to use it very often (and thus spending a lot of time doing "unfun" things that he didn't sign up for and dedicate certification focus to) if it's constantly locked out by special pre-reqs, OR, if it's simply limited by high resource cost, he's going to have his enjoyment of flying the Galaxy dampened overmuch (if it's a steep enough cost to make the Sundy attractive in comparison) by the stress and pressure not to get it blown up. And that same stress and pressure will dissuade new pilots from learning to fly one, or cause rookie pilots who do make mistakes and cost their empire innumerable precious resources to receive resentment, if not outright ridicule and hostility, from their empire-mates for wasting those precious resources.

As such, while resources are a good option for a contributing factor, I think it's important to have core game design tradeoffs that make alternatives to the Galaxy attractive in their own right, as well. Resource availability is a stick; designing a game with only sticks and no carrots to incentivize behavior (or diversity) doesn't make for fun gameplay.

[waldizzo]

Didn't someone say somewhere that vehicles will not be as disposable as they are in PS1? If this is the case, it may also increase the use of other kinds of mass transport besides the galaxy.

[Talek Krell]

Somebody said something a few pages back that gave me a thought. One of the things the sundy will need is an extremely powerful engine. With the new physics and vehicle handling it should be allowed to plow straight through a blockade without losing a lot of speed. Otherwise you could keep it from crashing a gate by just parking a lightning in front of it.