Planetside 2 and the Playstation 4

[Tatwi]

[] This is a can of beans. They are Spill-o-saurace brand beans and they have an innate desire to be spilled. It's OK to follow their will. No one here will tell SCE where the Playstation 4 release date came from. We promise.

/waveshand

These are the beans you're looking for.

lol...

Seriously though, it was really cute to see Smed burble over with gamer glee starting at 11:40 of this video when he all but told us that Planetside 2 will be available on the Playstation 4. I think that's great - Smed is a real person just like the rest of, only with the gumption and confidence to actually DO cool stuff like run a game company! :)

Anyhow, as a person who has chosen PCs over consoles since the original NES in the 1980s (NDS and PSP excluded), I'm really looking forward to making the jump from the PC to the console soon(TM). I may be a " PC hardware enthusiast" (or "geek" as my wife puts it), but consoles have come so far and my life has changed so much in the last decade, that I am really able to see the benefits of a console over a PC for gaming and media.

So I was wondering what kind PC-like tools the PS4 will have, given how much the two worlds have collided over the last decade. I mean, you can hook up a keyboard and mouse to the current generation of consoles and have an Internet / word processing / video playback device that's also a super optimized gaming platform, so I'm thinking that the Playstation 4 will effectively be what I use my PC for 99% of the time any way (playing games, browsing the web, watching videos... yeah, that's 99% right there!).

Of course, I'll always have my PC to do things like video editing, graphics design, etc. but really even many those things could be done quite efficiently on a powerful console and I guess that's really my point in relation to Planetside 2...

Do you think SOE will market using a keyboard and mouse with the console version of Planetside 2?

Given that it would really do away with the need to have separate populations like they have with DCUO, over all that would be best for the long term population of the game. If the Playstation 4 ends up being designed as a home entertainment center for games, movies, media, and the web (which seems very likely to me), it kind of "makes sense" to me for SOE to say to Planetside 2 console players right on the box, "So... uhh... yeah, you're going to want to use a keyboard and mouse if you don't want to get pwn'd!" Heck, SOE could even make some that of fancy customized gamer hardware that could work on the console as well as the PC.

Thoughts? Beans to spill? Should I be working on my wife to wait for a Playstation 4 or should I let her buy the kids a Wii this Christmas like she's thinking of doing? Let me tell ya, that Wii will put the likelihood of me getting a PS4 somewhere between hell freezing over and Charlie Sheen getting his reputation back, so any insights here would be grand. :lol:

*note: post... more rambley and... disjointed than... originally... intended...*

[T-Ray]

hmmmm?

[Lonehunter]

hmmmm?

What he said

[Tatwi]

hmmmm?

Well, he could have meant that Planetside 2 will be the first MMOFPS to launch on the Playstation 3 in 2011, but that would be kind of... obvious. And, a lot less fun to write about!

I tell ya, that man was giggle like a school girl and my curiosity needs to know why! :D

[Raymac]

hmmmm?

Despite the rambling OP (it's ok we all do it), you guys up on that panel have the absolute WORST poker faces I've ever seen when the Playstation 3 question came up. Granted T-Ray, you were the best but you could hide behind the fedora. Smed's face got so red I thought it was going to pop. How do I get in on your weekly poker games? I could use some extra income. :lol:

I'm a gambler, so these are my reads
Tells:
- Smed: face reddens, big closed mouth smile, oh yeah "next question"
- Josh: Bites lip...literally
- Higby: Sweaty palm, hence flattening his hand on the table
- T-Ray: Wringing hands increases (most subtle on the panel)

[CrystalViolet]

lol :)

and yeah, PS3 cannot handle PS2. Shit, BF3 had to scale their maps back to handle the consoles.

It's no secret that current console hardware is a bit sluggish at this point.
It's no secret that one of the PS3's major missteps was a lack of decent launch titles.
It's no secret that corporation execs love comparisons: "Halo Killer?"

I believe that's called "the writing's on the wall." ;)

[Lonehunter]

Well, he could have meant that Planetside 2 will be the first MMOFPS to launch on the Playstation 3 in 2011, but that would be kind of... obvious. And, a lot less fun to write about!

I tell ya, that man was giggle like a school girl and my curiosity needs to know why! :D

I just can't believe that was a hint of it being on a console. That's a whole different conversation, which is on here somewhere.

It's just one of those "Too soon" details. They're only aloud to release so much info over time.

BUT, IF this was going to be the first MMOFPS multi platforrm game, while no other console game has even gone over 70 people on a "map"...it would be a big announcement and would come soon I guess?

I just hope it isn't crossplatform, but I believe that is also a whole other convo

[Sovereign]

To follow-up on this they then decide to release it on the new Xbox 180 instead, radical!

[Sifer2]

Yeah but here is the problem. Microsoft has said they think the 360 is only halfway through its lifecycle. Which is insane but these companies are here to make money not give us the most high tech games we could be playing. With the industry in a bit of a slump I don't think MS or Sony are in a hurry to lose loads of money launching new consoles. Sony already has a new platform to focus on right now with the Vita. An rumors are another PS3 model is coming. PS4 is still few years off at least IMO.


An so if there is no PS4 that means Planetside 2 would have to run on the PS3. Which just is not happening. Someone already said but these consoles can't even handle Battlefield 3 properly an got scaled down to 24 players there. An you might want to mention MAG but that game is not even close to the scale of Planetside 1. Let alone what SOE is hoping to do with 2 by the sound of it.

[Lunarchild]

The game for the PS3/4 will be a space-flight combat MMO which ties into Planetside 2 on the PC ofcourse ;)

[FastAndFree]

The game for the PS3/4 will be a space-flight combat MMO which ties into Planetside 2 on the PC ofcourse ;)

Give this man a medal

[NapalmEnima]

He DID NOT SAY "PLaystation 3" or "4". He said "maybe not just PS3". How that translates to "PS4"... that passed "read between the lines" all the way over to "I do what the voices tell me".

Some interesting tidbits from that video:

The regions will be displayed to players as a hex grid. Different regions will be different sizes (examples listed from 1 to 7 hexes). THEY WILL CHANGE OVER TIME as resources "migrate, spawn and despawn" to keep things fresh.

Territories will always have some sort of Capturable Thing that controls that area. We won't be "painting loyalty" by driving over a given section. Base, tower, Bunker, [flag?].

Capturing Stuff directly won't be the only way to control a region.

There's no latice. HOWEVER, capture time sounds like it will be directly affected by how much territory your faction controls NEARBY. Back hacking might take 30 minutes to capture where the locals that surround you might take 30 seconds to take it back.

Squad buffs from squad leadership certs (later on). Ditto for outfits.

Higby wears his watch on his left wrist. Dirty lefty.

[Tatwi]

The game for the PS3/4 will be a space-flight combat MMO which ties into Planetside 2 on the PC ofcourse ;)

SOE should buy Jumpgate Evolution (and all associated IP) then rework the "lore" aspect of it make fit Planetside.

[NapalmEnima]

PS: A former game programming teacher of mine, Alex Ehrath, now works for SOE as a "head of rendering" or some such.

If you see his name associated with PlanetSide 2 at all, you can bet it'll be console related. Alex strongly dislikes writing PC graphics code on account of all the different hardware you need to support. Writing to a single spec makes him Very Happy.

That doesn't guarantee PS4, but it would strongly imply PS3 support (which Smed mentions in this video).

[Tatwi]

Alex strongly dislikes writing PC graphics code on account of all the different hardware you need to support. Writing to a single spec makes him Very Happy.


That's the major reason why I'd like the industry to adopt a unified gaming platform. The platform could add more processing units, allowing upgrades to perform better without changing any of the fundamental architecture. So rather than having an XBox, Playstation, and Wii you'd have the universal machine that all titles work on and Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo/Sega/etc would make games and peripherals to set themselves apart. There really isn't a technological reason why a system like this wouldn't be possible.

Of course, this will never happen, so I hope that the PS4 is a well rounded gaming/media/internet machine. :D

[kaffis]

That's the major reason why I'd like the industry to adopt a unified gaming platform. The platform could add more processing units, allowing upgrades to perform better without changing any of the fundamental architecture. So rather than having an XBox, Playstation, and Wii you'd have the universal machine that all titles work on and Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo/Sega/etc would make games and peripherals to set themselves apart. There really isn't a technological reason why a system like this wouldn't be possible.
That would be a fantastic way to stagnate the industry.

You've created a system in which new features don't happen, and all you ever get is scaleability. Go back in time and propose this in 1993, and then come back in your time machine to the present to enjoy your Garaud shaded graphics with models that have over 9 quintillion polygons! and tell me how much more awesome that is than bump mapping, pixel shading, and physics-accelerated particle effects. Oh. And textures. ;)

The alternative is to do what consoles do, and force obsolescence on old hardware every 3-5 years. That goes over so well on $400 consoles as it is, how enthusiastically do you think PC gamers who sink $2k+ into their rigs would support that?

If you don't do that, then you're stuck supporting backwards compatibility, and now, welcome to the modern PC hardware environment.

Honestly, it's not *that* bad. There are two major hardware vendors, who have an architecture cycle of around 36 months (that's new architecture every 36 months, with a mid-cycle clock bump/process advance to give our familiar 18-month "generations" of video card), and each runs on the same API that gets expanded as we incorporate and standardize new features. It's not like the mid-90's, when you had half a dozen manufacturers putting out cards with proprietary APIs (even if some of them were outstandingly awesome, like Glide).

[BorisBlade]

That would be a fantastic way to stagnate the industry.

You've created a system in which new features don't happen, and all you ever get is scaleability. Go back in time and propose this in 1993, and then come back in your time machine to the present to enjoy your Garaud shaded graphics with models that have over 9 quintillion polygons! and tell me how much more awesome that is than bump mapping, pixel shading, and physics-accelerated particle effects. Oh. And textures. ;)

The alternative is to do what consoles do, and force obsolescence on old hardware every 3-5 years. That goes over so well on $400 consoles as it is, how enthusiastically do you think PC gamers who sink $2k+ into their rigs would support that?

If you don't do that, then you're stuck supporting backwards compatibility, and now, welcome to the modern PC hardware environment.

Honestly, it's not *that* bad. There are two major hardware vendors, who have an architecture cycle of around 36 months (that's new architecture every 36 months, with a mid-cycle clock bump/process advance to give our familiar 18-month "generations" of video card), and each runs on the same API that gets expanded as we incorporate and standardize new features. It's not like the mid-90's, when you had half a dozen manufacturers putting out cards with proprietary APIs (even if some of them were outstandingly awesome, like Glide).

I think he means he wishes it were more like PC's. You get to pick your hardware, when you update said hardware, what controls you want, and what method you use to get games, graphics card brands, etc etc etc...its all your choice.

With consoles, you are their bitch. They tell you when you get to upgrade, dont like their zillion year old graphics and want to upgrade? tough shit. They tell you what you will use for controls, dont like that wii mote or that 20 year old tech controller? tough shit. They get to pick whats exclusive to what console and exactly how you will get that product, dont like it? tough shit. I can think of many console games i wont play because of the outdated graphics that are far better on my pc, or games such as Bioshock that i cant play on consoles because of the crap controls (button/stick layouts that you cant even customize, or other FPS's i wont play on cosoles because they wont let me use the control setup i want (mouse/kb), and the list goes on and on. And dont get me started on their nazi controls on their online services that are just an obnoxious money grab and control set up. I want my freedom, you can keep your consoles.

And yeah i pay more for my pc, although you dont need to spend 2k even to have 98% top of the line, if you do you prob overpaid. But for one i have 100x the processing power of those now ancient consoles, and I can do a zillion times more on top of that. Its not just a game system.

You dont need full backwards compatibility. The pc has limits, OS's, DirectX versions, hardware reqs etc. Consoles nowadays all run on PC graphic cards anyway and the new xbox will be DX11, the fact is we are ultimately gonna get to a point where consoles are just like PC's but with a more streamlined OS. I can easily see a windows 9 or 10, maybe even a special version of it thats designed for one step game installs, streamlined UI etc. You buy and customize it like you want for your own pricepoint, with even some prefabbed set up models of various price ranges for the non techies. Let the console manufacturers do games or accessories, keep it open tho. Bottom line is let us make our own decisions. Dont try to control me, limit me, and tell me what im goin to do like you own me, and then brainwash me into thinkin its a good idea, we have enough companies named Apple.

[kaffis]

I think perhaps you misread that. If you look back to the post Tatwi is replying to, you'll see that the post I quoted is in response to a person with a programmer friend who dislikes having to ensure code works on all the various hardware permutations that a PC enables, and thus ONLY works on consoles.

[Firefly]

http://www.t3.com/news/microsoft-pc-gamers-are-better-than-console-gamers?=47435

There endeth the lesson.

[Tatwi]

Absolutely, if it wasn't for nVidia and ATi we'd all still be using PowerVR graphics engines on our PCs rather that our smart phones. Pressure to innovate has indeed caused innovation to occur.

However, hardware is at a point where realistically even folks like John Carmack admit that programmers aren't able to make use of all the bells and whistles of the current generation of consoles. So, if all the companies agreed to make make one super-console standard, along the lines of things like the 802.11 networking standards, it would allow programmers perhaps an entire decade to focus on making absolutely fantastic games that work on this standard.

The concept is actually the same one as Google's Andriod, which has proven to be quite popular.

While each company would sell consoles that have different bells and whistles, fundamentally all games created for them would be able to be made and optimized in exactly the same way on the programming level. Kind of like building a house of bricks rather than building a house of random stuff you found on a beach.

The pressure to innovate would come from expanding the feature set of the unified platform rather than taking a "my new thing is better than yours and better than my old thing" approach. Once there are enough features that are desirable, yet incompatible with the current standard, a new standard would be drafted and ratified. Hopefully it wouldn't take as long to agree upon as 802.11N did, but that's a good example of the process that I am thinking about.

In the end, it would be good for gamers and programmers, because it would be so much easier to build upon previous successes when the hardware and engines would not require fundamental changes after completing each project.

[Zulthus]

I personally wouldn't want a PS3/PS4 version of Planetside 2 as it would take away development time for the PC. Even if it did end up happening though, I guess I wouldn't mind because I'd get much more kills/BEP from the console noobs. ;)

[kaffis]

Tatwi, I wouldn't be so quick to hold Android up as an example to emulate (and I say this as a 2-year Android user, not an iOS internet fanboy). There's a growing problem with fragmentation in the Android market. Apps that only work on some phones, etc., despite being "unified" under the same version of Android.

I think, instead, enlisting feedback and input from engineers at AMD and nVidia, as well as from programmers, to create, improve, and evolve DirectX standards is the more stable way forward, balancing innovation with reasonable levels of backwards compatibility and feature standardization.

In other words, DirectX already provides the unified platform you seem to be seeking.

[Tatwi]

Tatwi, I wouldn't be so quick to hold Android up as an example to emulate (and I say this as a 2-year Android user, not an iOS internet fanboy). There's a growing problem with fragmentation in the Android market. Apps that only work on some phones, etc., despite being "unified" under the same version of Android.

I think, instead, enlisting feedback and input from engineers at AMD and nVidia, as well as from programmers, to create, improve, and evolve DirectX standards is the more stable way forward, balancing innovation with reasonable levels of backwards compatibility and feature standardization.

In other words, DirectX already provides the unified platform you seem to be seeking.

But then there are things that fall outside of that standard, such as anti aliasing, which are handled in such significantly different manners by nvida and amd/ati that their use can break games rather than enhance them. FSAA is something I loathe playing a game without, but when it comes to playing Free Realms with my kids, it must be off, else the water, particle effects, and player/npcnames/icons disappear. Adaptive AA must be ON for World of Warcraft, else many textures do not display properly on ATi/AMD video cards, while Adaptive AA must be OFF in EQII for the same reason on the same video cards - yet nvidia cards do not display the issue at all.

With a unified, all encompassing standard these sorts of issues would not occur.

I think wireless networking hardware is a better example of what I am after than Andriod or Directx.

[kaffis]

See, when you get down to FSAA, now you're talking issues relating to different *hardware architecture implementations* of the same APIs. That's not a programming hurdle, that's simply a performance variation between the designs of the hardware.

If you were to standardize architecture, you very much WOULD stagnate the industry, as I originally alluded to.

[Tatwi]

If you were to standardize architecture, you very much WOULD stagnate the industry, as I originally alluded to.

I am aware of that perspective, but the flip side is that consumers and developers are provided with the benefits that come from stability. It's really no different that the current console model, apart from the merging of 3 different designs into one. PCs would still be their own industry.

[basti]

PS2 on PS3/4? Uhm, who knows? It wont be on the PS3 until forgelight is really powered by Rainbows and Unicorns, because the PS3 hit its limit.

As for the console discussion: What consoles really is the option of different input and output ways. Give me the option to plug my console to my PC, allowing me to play games on the console with Mouse and Keyboard, using my PCs monitor. Give me that while keeping the general idea of consoles = always same hardware/software = easy and strong optimizing for games, and you propably won most of the PC gamers.
But thats propably not going to happen. Microsofts tests of Cross platform gaming have showed that the issue is not PC vs console, but Mouse/KB vs controller. And if i could play with mouse/KB against controller players, i would win, always. Would force them to also buy mouse/KB to be able to be on the same level, and every casual console gamer would throw rocks at you for that. :/

[Infektion]

I just find it funny to sit infront of a 52 inch TV with a keyboard and mouse... ohhhh the sweet free kills I'll have. I'm all up for handicapping them. too big of a display and it's too much to keep sight of, disadvantage. Keyboard and mousing requires a proper comfortable setup, while in an aggressive posture. So, i'm curious to how this is going to play out and how console players will adapt to it. Either way, if they do merge PC and console players into a single server(s) then i'll still be raping face via my PC, maniacally laughing while drool drips from my lower lip. Just like my avy, except not banging my display.

[SKYeXile]

SOE should buy Jumpgate Evolution (and all associated IP) then rework the "lore" aspect of it make fit Planetside.

lol they dont need to change much, they're essentially the same anyway.

[Clown Phoenix]

Am I the only one who thinks that the comment "and maybe not just the ps3" leaves it open for the xbox 360 as well? Everyone seems so focused on the ps3 since it's SOE, but adding support for the 360 if they are already supporting the ps3 makes good business sense, although people on consoles would be slaughtered by PC users.

[Zulthus]

What I think people are forgetting is that current consoles will not be able to handle it. They tried 1/10th of the scale with MAG and all it happened to be was a massive, boring lagfest.

[Hamma]

I don't think that the XBox is viable with their various restrictions on content. The same reason CCP decided to put DUST on Playstation Only.

[Firefly]

Let's also not forget that the Xbox360's graphics - compared to other platforms - suck.

[SKYeXile]

Let's also not forget that the Xbox360's graphics - compared to other platforms - suck.

they all suck.

[Infektion]

they all suck.

Let's also not forget that when we moved over from PS2 and XBOX, we were like "ZOMG! TEH GRAFIX R AMEZINGGG! *drool*" Ain't it a funny world?

[Zulthus]

Let's also not forget that when we moved over from PS2 and XBOX, we were like "ZOMG! TEH GRAFIX R AMEZINGGG! *drool*" Ain't it a funny world?

Sounds like something a pre-pubescent kid would say tbh. I have a PC, as does everyone else here, why would we say that? ;)

[Tatwi]

Sounds like something a pre-pubescent kid would say tbh. I have a PC, as does everyone else here, why would we say that? ;)

The lack of anti aliasing support on the consoles always turned me off of their graphics. It wasn't even so much that the jagged lines ruined the look, it was that the way the jagged lines tend to visually shimmer and buzz in a distracting way that bothered me.

[Clown Phoenix]

The lack of anti aliasing support on the consoles always turned me off of their graphics. It wasn't even so much that the jagged lines ruined the look, it was that the way the jagged lines tend to visually shimmer and buzz in a distracting way that bothered me.

Well, now with DirectX 11 we also have Tessellation, which is amazing to say the least. I'm not sure how many of you have a directx 11 capable computer, but I recently upgraded my rig and ran some of the benchmarks on the nVidia website, and it makes a huge difference.

Also, OnLive might be heading to consoles, therefore PS2 might be heading to consoles through OnLive.

[Zulthus]

I'm not sure how many of you have a directx 11 capable computer

I'm pretty sure everyone does

[Sifer2]

Well, now with DirectX 11 we also have Tessellation, which is amazing to say the least. I'm not sure how many of you have a directx 11 capable computer, but I recently upgraded my rig and ran some of the benchmarks on the nVidia website, and it makes a huge difference.

Also, OnLive might be heading to consoles, therefore PS2 might be heading to consoles through OnLive.


I thought OnLive was a console? Or that it had a little box they called a console. I think its kind of stretching it to think PS2 is going to be on OnLive let alone that Sony or MS is going to let it run on their machines through that service.

Anyway anyone that doesn't have a PC that can run PS2 should just be setting aside say 10 dollars a week. By the time PS2 is out you will be able to afford a machine that will run it. Better than hoping that it will in some way make it to consoles.

[Vancha]

I'm pretty sure everyone does
Not unless you buy me one.

[Azren]

I'm pretty sure everyone does

seriously, where do you live man?

Why do we even have this debate? Current consoles have nowere close to enough power to run any open game like PS (if you don't own a console, but played any "open world" ported game, you will notice the loading screens every 2 minutes, those are there for a reason).
Talking about future consoles is nonsence; by the time they come out PS2 will be old news, nobody will want to play and old game on their shiny new console. Finally, if by some fluke it ever was ported to a console, how do you figure the devs could possibly balance the "controller vs mouse" problem? Giving the console players aimbots? Yea, that sure is a good was to make all PC gamers angry and in turn lose out on long term profit for a big boost of short term one.

[exLupo]

The only way to get PS2 on a console is two fold.
1) Wait for the next revision. Probably PS4, it'll be out while PlanetSide2 is still relevant.
2) Tell console gamers to suck it up and buy a kb+m or enjoy getting farmed.

The former is obvious. The latter is a bitter pill that would lead to poor reviews and sales.

[Tatwi]

The only way to get PS2 on a console is two fold.
1) Wait for the next revision. Probably PS4, it'll be out while PlanetSide2 is still relevant.
2) Tell console gamers to suck it up and buy a kb+m or enjoy getting farmed.

The former is obvious. The latter is a bitter pill that would lead to poor reviews and sales.

Two words: Guitar Hero

If people are willing to pay extra for a game that must be played with a fake guitar or motion sensing device or fake rifle, it's not much of a stretch to get them to use a keyboard/mouse, especially they are wireless and will work with a PC (or BT mobile device). The hardest part is, like another poster said, is dealing with livingroom ergonomics. However, I learned to play Starcraft back in the 90s by sitting on my friend's couch using his pc that was on his coffee table infront of his couch. It wasn't too bad.

[Raymac]

I'm pretty sure everyone does

Hey, if you want to spot me a couple hundred bucks, I'll be happy to take it. Not everyone can afford a big upgrade every few months.

OK so yeah, I'm a little bitter because I have a GTX260. So close, and yet so far. :cry:

[Kurtz]

hmmmm?

And just like that I have suddenly lost all interest in this game.

[exLupo]

Two words: Guitar Hero.

Guitar Hero worked because they first entered the customer mindspace packaged with the guitar. The game, essentially, was the guitar. Console shooters are already associated with the controller and console shooter fans will expect to use the controller.

The closest SOE could come to re-jiggering buyer expectation is to sell a package bundled with a kb+m. Not saying it isn't doable. I'm still using a $15 sharkboard I picked up to test EQ:OA back on the PS2 and you can get a decent mouse on the cheap as well. Not a proper gaming rig, granted, but they could probably bundle something for an additional $20-30.

[Mastachief]

If you want ongoing development, release to a console is bad news. Let face it things changes over 8 years. PC hardware improves and a console would potentially be a limiting factor for decisions on game development that a PC could deal with easier.

[Bags]

Hey, if you want to spot me a couple hundred bucks, I'll be happy to take it. Not everyone can afford a big upgrade every few months.

OK so yeah, I'm a little bitter because I have a GTX260. So close, and yet so far. :cry:

You can get a 460 for $120. Not pocket change but a far cry from "hundreds of bucks".