Cloakers and jacking

[Huma]

Something I would love to see would be the ability for cloakers to do some grunt work when cloaking is no longer an option. I'd like to see some weapons customization options that would allow a cloaker in agile to be able to contribute a little better on heavy base fights. I know you can just pick a grunt load out bit I'd rather be a trained up light armor/weapon cloaker than an untrained grunt.
Also since their removing the ability to jack enemy vehicles I would like to see them put in a device that disables enemy vehicles for a short time. Could be cloaker only and have a plant timer. Once attached the device could disable the enemy vehicle until a cloaker or an engineer remove it. Not as fun as jacking someone's ride but it would fill the role nicely.

[Peacemaker]

Jammers? Cloakers are the lightest of light infantry. They are not meant for assault. They are meant for.... cloaking. The only thing I'd like to see is a limited ability cloak "blanket" that snipers could employ. That's about it though.

[Huma]

True but that leaves us in the cold when the base gets to hot for cloaking. I'd liketo still be able to support my teammates without having to waste time on grunt certs I'm barely going to use. Just hoping for more versatility I guess. I should say infiltrator as opposed to cloaker really.

[Valdae]

Good cloakers can cause absolute chaos in a massive base battle with a few well hacked terminals..

[Lonehunter]

On heavy indoor fights, that's just one of the roles a cloaker doesn't completely fit. Neither does sniper or tank driver. When that's the only fight available to me I creep into the gen or spawn, it takes longer, but it makes a bigger impact. Or I start working on the next base, blow the turrets, clear CE, place my own.

On vehicles, I think cloakers should still be able to hack gunner seats. But saving all my ideas on this in for big cloaker post.

[Brusi]

Bases having alternative entries that an agile couldn't fit through..

Like vents in Counterstrike, or like metal gear solid. Being able to sneak into a big base fight as a cloaker ends in a few deaths from random fire (enemy and friendly). It should still take patience and skill to infiltrate behind enemy lines though.

[EASyEightyEight]

Even though this idea still won't be preferable in CQC, I like the idea of two levels of infil suit. One is the true infiltrator, carrying only handgun sized equipment and little extra equipment in way of ammo and a REK.

The other would be more of a commando. Probably packing no more than a rifle or a shotgun as his largest weapon, and little supplies, including a REK and possibly a boomer or two for some real behind enemy lines espionage. He'd be akin to the standard vest in PS1, only with cloaking capability on top. The cloak is both temporary and fragile. He'll lose his cloak upon performing actions or taking damage. Best used going from cover to cover and should definitely engage the enemy with a guerilla mindset. Think nanosuit (Crysis) cloaking, only without the added options of high jump, super speed (sort of I guess) and extra armor. I'd really like to see small, highly organized teams in game using these kind of tactics.

EDIT: Further humoring the idea, I don't think I'd mind cloakers having special, 1HKO knife kills in PS2, so long as the risk with doing so is high, such as cloak being disabled for both armors, and the knife activating, thus making a loud noise for the duration of a kill animation, just moments before ripping out someone's jugular or impaling someone's heart. I know it seems kind of OP, but I want to be punished for going out on my own. We SHOULD be punished for running off on our own. The current equivalent in PS1 is the magnum full-salvo shot, but we don't get the quick reveal, and the noise isn't quite nearly as audible.

Of course, both types of cloaker would more than likely be left with no medical support and low ammo supply, so they'll have to rely on scavenged equipment for prolonged operations in the field, if scavenging is at all possible in PS2, even without inventories.

[Huma]

I was thinking more along the lines of agile with a specialized sub machine gun. Something slightly better than the suppressor. As for gen dropping and killing tubes I've found the pay off for doing those to not be worth the effort. Generally in a big fight if your don't have a squad ready to move in your not going to make a significant impact. Mainly because the defenders are generally dug in well enough for a reac team to hunt you down and fix the damage.
Granted you get the sense of accomplishment. I act more as a scout and eliminate high value targets.

[EASyEightyEight]

I was thinking more along the lines of agile with a specialized sub machine gun. Something slightly better than the suppressor. As for gen dropping and killing tubes I've found the pay off for doing those to not be worth the effort. Generally in a big fight if your don't have a squad ready to move in your not going to make a significant impact. Mainly because the defenders are generally dug in well enough for a reac team to hunt you down and fix the damage.
Granted you get the sense of accomplishment. I act more as a scout and eliminate high value targets.

I'm not entirely sure we'll have generators and destroyable respawning tubes this time around. My idea was more like someone that goes behind the lines, preferably with a team of heavy cloakers, and shuts down vital facilities temporarily, such as vehicle terminals, and if facilities have benefits, could blow the control consoles for those too. Even key vehicles such as artillery, parked galaxies, etc. Maybe even assassination? Take out a leader guy so he can't drop an OS or some other game changer during an assault, at least for the duration he's out of the fight.

For the most part, front line acquisition is supposed to take seconds. Hack something, wait a few moments, it's yours. Heck, simply having a presence in the area seemingly takes areas if we're to interpret the explanation of the hex system that way. Taking something deep in enemy territory takes considerably longer. I like to think a small team of heavy cloakers might make that more interesting for the response team to sniff out.

[Huma]

Lol true true. Considering some of the potential for command specialists it might actually be beneficial to target the directly. As for the heavy cloaker idea maybe instead of true stealth they just get a form of displacement? Something that makes them a little harder to see than normal and allows them to carry a slightly larger weapon?

[Huma]

Jammers? Cloakers are the lightest of light infantry. They are not meant for assault. They are meant for.... cloaking. The only thing I'd like to see is a limited ability cloak "blanket" that snipers could employ. That's about it though.

Actually that could be useful and still balanced. It would allow snipers to act as scouts as well. Maybe make it so that if they stay crouched for 30 seconds they get a 1 minute stealth effect?

[Sovereign]

Bases having alternative entries that an agile couldn't fit through..

Like vents in Counterstrike, or like metal gear solid. Being able to sneak into a big base fight as a cloaker ends in a few deaths from random fire (enemy and friendly). It should still take patience and skill to infiltrate behind enemy lines though.

Oh hellz ye-ah!

This would be perfect addition to making infiltration more keen in the next game. It would also be a unequivocal nuance if they could set traps via vents and under ducts.

[EASyEightyEight]

Lol true true. Considering some of the potential for command specialists it might actually be beneficial to target the directly. As for the heavy cloaker idea maybe instead of true stealth they just get a form of displacement? Something that makes them a little harder to see than normal and allows them to carry a slightly larger weapon?

I was under the impression that this time around we'll get the often employed "bubble" effect that seems natural with cloaking (in that it bends light) instead of the simple white-ghost fade we currently see in PS1 due to limitations in hardware at the time. Though yes, true cloakers, the light variety, should have a more effective cloak, since a heavy cloaker will be carrying enough extra kit to the point where their cloak only works in bursts before needing to recharge.

[HawkEye]

True but that leaves us in the cold when the base gets to hot for cloaking. I'd liketo still be able to support my teammates without having to waste time on grunt certs I'm barely going to use. Just hoping for more versatility I guess. I should say infiltrator as opposed to cloaker really.


You can suport them by healing, repairing, and rezzing.

[CutterJohn]

I would like there to be an infiltration suit that has armor, and a medium sized gun. Once you start shooting, the cloaking field shorts out and needs 30s or a minute to be able to turn back on. Would be a good secondary style of cloaking imo.

[Huma]

You can suport them by healing, repairing, and rezzing.

Yup and I do that when I'm with my team. :)

[headcrab13]

I would like there to be an infiltration suit that has armor, and a medium sized gun. Once you start shooting, the cloaking field shorts out and needs 30s or a minute to be able to turn back on. Would be a good secondary style of cloaking imo.

THIS. I'd love to see something like this, but I suspect most people would consider it overpowered. Another solution that might be more widely accepted is a medium inf suit that can only cloak for a certain amount of time.

For instance, you could run up to a base with your squad, uncloaked, and as they make their way to the main door, you activate your suit and take an alternate route to the roof. Your suit may only be invisible for 30-60 seconds, but it would be enough time to sneak past certain people, through busy parts of a base, or to flank around a heavy gunner and take him out undetected.

-HC13

[EASyEightyEight]

I can tell I'm still invisible to society as a whole >.> At least the cops pass me when I'm the reason they turned their lights on in the first place.

WTH man, wth.

TL;DR Didn't I already suggest that VERY idea!?

[Erendil]

Huma, after reading through your comments in this thread I get the impression that you are thinking about PS2 way too much in PS1 terms. The class system in PS2 is not your typical RPG pick-one-class-and-now-your-stuck-with-it-for-life kind of class. As I understand it there will be no limits to the number of classes you can advance in, and no limits to how often you can switch between classes as long as you're near a terminal.

So, if you want to spend some time in Agile in a more upfront role, then swap out your cloaker class for a light infantry class that uses Agile. It's the same thing as what you want. A cloaker that's not in an infil suit is no longer a member of the cloaker class. You are now one of the "light infantry" classes, and as such you will have access to that class's customizable weapons when you start investing in skills for that class.

And I have a feeling we'll have access to at least a small number of basic classes from the very start without having to spend any points on it, too (if not all of them).

Plus, if the Suppressor exists in PS2 it will already be more effective in combat than the PS1 Suppressor. Higby has said that weapons in PS2 will be significantly more deadly than they are in PS1, which means that infantry tactics will naturally play more of a role, and what weapon you're carrying will play less. And since there will be damage bonuses for headshots with some weapons I have a feeling the Suppressor will get at least a slight bonus for a headshot since it is a rifle of sorts (well, more of a tactical SMG really) that requires accurate shooting to be effective.

I gotta say though I got a good laugh at the idea of cloakers planting immobilizing devices on vehicles. I had this vision of a team of TR heading back to their Marauder they parked outside only to find a boot on all of its wheels and a ticket stuck to the windshield from the Vanu DMV telling them they had to pay a fine to the Soveriegnty to get the boots removed.... :D

Oh, and I too would love to see a cloaking ghillie suit available to snipers, and I hope that the Devs create the sniper class(es) to have more of a sniper/scout role.

[CutterJohn]

I can tell I'm still invisible to society as a whole >.> At least the cops pass me when I'm the reason they turned their lights on in the first place.

WTH man, wth.

TL;DR Didn't I already suggest that VERY idea!?

Its not the first time I've suggested it around here. And even those other times were almost undoubtedly not the first time it has been suggested. Just be happy someone agrees with you rather than complaining you didn't the credit you feel you deserve.

[Huma]

Huma, after reading through your comments in this thread I get the impression that you are thinking about PS2 way too much in PS1 terms. The class system in PS2 is not your typical RPG pick-one-class-and-now-your-stuck-with-it-for-life kind of class. As I understand it there will be no limits to the number of classes you can advance in, and no limits to how often you can switch between classes as long as you're near a terminal.

So, if you want to spend some time in Agile in a more upfront role, then swap out your cloaker class for a light infantry class that uses Agile. It's the same thing as what you want. A cloaker that's not in an infil suit is no longer a member of the cloaker class. You are now one of the "light infantry" classes, and as such you will have access to that class's customizable weapons when you start investing in skills for that class.

And I have a feeling we'll have access to at least a small number of basic classes from the very start without having to spend any points on it, too (if not all of them).

Plus, if the Suppressor exists in PS2 it will already be more effective in combat than the PS1 Suppressor. Higby has said that weapons in PS2 will be significantly more deadly than they are in PS1, which means that infantry tactics will naturally play more of a role, and what weapon you're carrying will play less. And since there will be damage bonuses for headshots with some weapons I have a feeling the Suppressor will get at least a slight bonus for a headshot since it is a rifle of sorts (well, more of a tactical SMG really) that requires accurate shooting to be effective.

I gotta say though I got a good laugh at the idea of cloakers planting immobilizing devices on vehicles. I had this vision of a team of TR heading back to their Marauder they parked outside only to find a boot on all of its wheels and a ticket stuck to the windshield from the Vanu DMV telling them they had to pay a fine to the Soveriegnty to get the boots removed.... :D

Oh, and I too would love to see a cloaking ghillie suit available to snipers, and I hope that the Devs create the sniper class(es) to have more of a sniper/scout role.

True your not stuck in a role but at tue same time your inherently going to be less effective as someone who specializes in that role. I guess what I'm saying really is that I'd like to see some more flexibility in cloakers really. And that visual regarding a boot device is exactly what I was thinking. It would be on par with jacking vehicles in PS1 without the additional balancing issues. :)

[Atuday]

First off I'm not a cloaker and I hate you little back stabbing $#!^$ but I am all for the idea of giving cloakers more options. As much as I hate them I feel sorry for them mostly due to killing or detecting them via random fire. I would like to see cloakers that can truly one stab kill like in tf2. I would also like it if they can go places other characters in armor can not.

The one thing I felt was truly lacking is the power to plant bombs quickly and easily. Nothing sucked for me more than when one smart cloaker would get an emp mine in the base and stop all our tanks and infantry implants. Sadly though it took so long to get in place and plant these things that getting away afterword was in my mind to hard for the player. An MCG or lash spam could find and kill a cloaker fast with no implants needed. This needs a bit of balancing don't you think?

[Kechiro]

Oh, and I too would love to see a cloaking ghillie suit available to snipers, and I hope that the Devs create the sniper class(es) to have more of a sniper/scout role.

This.

I think maybe an actual "cloaking" device might be a bit OP'd since we're at ranged anyway. Though I'm rooting for something like a weapon upgrade or something that conceals "muzzle fire" to keep us off radar while shooting or a lighter gun upgrade to conceal movement. Just something to give us some form of hiding to keep those really good positions good positions a little longer.

My only worry is how sniping will be done in this game as opposed to PS1. I'm assuming head shots will be insta kills from a sniper also. So we may get nothing but that as our little perk.

I mainly just hope that they keep sniping a viable form of combat given the number of players and such that will be on the field. On PS1 I've turned myself into a combat sniper of sorts, taking my rifle into stairwell battles and getting kills that way (hard to do since you also run the risk of TKing quite easily).

[Erendil]

True your not stuck in a role but at tue same time your inherently going to be less effective as someone who specializes in that role. I guess what I'm saying really is that I'd like to see some more flexibility in cloakers really.


I think I see what you’re getting at. You want to be able to play the cloaker class and hack terms, install viruses, immobilize vehicles, etc while in a cloaked suit. But you also want to be able to hop into Agile armour to fight in more intense battles and still be able to use all of your Cloaker “non-combat” skills (hacking, viruses, immobilization) while being able to use an upgradable rifle-sized weapon of some sort (like Suppressor or Sweeper) as well. Basically you want the cloaker class to have access to 2 different types of armour and at least some of the “lighter” rifle-sized weapons like the Suppressor, and maybe other P90/MP5-style SMG’s which as a Cloaker you’d be able to upgrade. Is that right?

If so, then yes I agree. The Cloaker class should have access to an unarmoured infil suit like in PS1 that only has pistol slots, and an Agile suit that protects like Agile armour but can’t equip the “heavier” infantry weapons (like HA, ESAV/Deci’s, Bolt driver). So in PS1 terms you’d have one 3x9-sized rifle slot that can’t hold the larger 3x12 weapons.

And, to extrapolate further, I think something similar should apply to all Classes: Having more than 1 armour-type available, but customized such that they differentiate between how many “light” (i.e. - 3x9) and “heavy” (3x12) weapons they can carry. That way each Class could vary their combat role a little bit while still being able to use all of their "non-combat" skills.

This could balance out the Ghillie suit for Snipers as well. So the Sniper class could have access to 3 different armour suits:

"Combat Sniper" Rexo - 1 3x12 slot (for the sniper rifle), 1 3x9 slot (for sweeper, MA, etc), 2 pistol slots, no camouflage.
"Sniper Scout" Agile - 1 3x12 slot, 2 pistol slots, suit has a permanent camouflage pattern on it that's selectable at the term based on your anticipated environment (arctic, desert, forest, night).
"Ghillie" suit - has NO armour, 1 3x12 slot, 2 pistol slots, but instead of the "fringe" Predator-style cloaking ability that I believe PS2 cloakers will get, the armour slowly changes color to match the ground around the sniper so long as the sniper doesn't move. Full color change takes ~1 minute.

[Kechiro]

Keep in mind that there will be no inventory customization in PS2. Classes are apparently already predetermined and players no longer to get to choose what weapons/support items they can take with them and instead must settle for what the class comes with.

Good or bad, we'll see come beta I guess. I think they should give us an inventory so that we can still customize what we take into battle with us, but limit it to things that only that class could take. For example a sniper would get his sniper rifle and no other guns or maybe just a pistol weapon.

However the way they have it planned has me a little worried, but not too badly just yet.

[Huma]

Keep in mind that there will be no inventory customization in PS2. Classes are apparently already predetermined and players no longer to get to choose what weapons/support items they can take with them and instead must settle for what the class comes with.

Good or bad, we'll see come beta I guess. I think they should give us an inventory so that we can still customize what we take into battle with us, but limit it to things that only that class could take. For example a sniper would get his sniper rifle and no other guns or maybe just a pistol weapon.

However the way they have it planned has me a little worried, but not too badly just yet.

Yeah your stuck with gear but as you unlock more you'll get to mix and match. Kinda like the Battlefield series where you could unlock new weapons and equipment then switch them out. Not a bad system really just means no inventory management.

[exLupo]

Not a bad system really just means no inventory management.

If they go down that route while still staying true to PlanetSide's extremely wide role diversity, the spawn-as class/kit list is gonna be substantial.

[Senyu]

Just skimming threads but to me the cloakers need more versatility in their roles especially vehicle jacking is out of order. Sure their great at infiltrating bases and hacking. And I've never seen the infil medic but that sounds cool. And the lucky kills they get when they find a target all by their lonesome. But it still doesn't seem enough. Perhaps increasing Infil only options would allow more variety and interesting/fun gameplay?

If more Cloaker things would be added exactly what role would they fit? Defensive/Offensive/Support

I see them more along the lines of receiving things that will benifit the forward offensive and support. And also abilities that focus on more sabatoge things.

[exLupo]

And I've never seen the infil medic but that sounds cool.

A.med/engi infils were common enough at one point to have a dev make a snide comment about it once. I ran that as one of my kits for the duration of my time specializing in infil. It was great when it worked and you didn't get lit up by plasma or DL sweeps. I'd like to see that and many more roles for infils in PS2. There isn't a shooter that's gone farther than just "invis from point A to point B, now assault" for cloaking units besides PS. Dev's got a great opportunity, hope they get creative.


However, I want to be totally clear about this. If PS2 has the same detection scheme and quickly reversible list of actions that PS1 has for infils, it doesn't matter what you let them do. There will be no place for them in game.

[Senyu]

Agreed, hope cloakers have a much more active role to play besides say just killing stragellers

[Erendil]

Keep in mind that there will be no inventory customization in PS2. Classes are apparently already predetermined and players no longer to get to choose what weapons/support items they can take with them and instead must settle for what the class comes with.

That's not quite true. Here are a couple of quotes from Higby's Reddit thread:

Matt Higby said:
Inventory won't exist in the same way as it did in PS1. There will still be loadouts, but you won't have to manage inventory space to trade-off ammo for medkits, etc...

...I answered this somewhere else, there will be the ability to customize loadouts, but it won't be an open freeform inventory...

...What you're describing is basically what we're doing. You can switch classes, loadouts, etc situationally. Either when you respawn or at equipment terminals...I agree the ps1 had a great system, we're definitely keeping the spirit of that system in ps2. What you won't have is a dude that looks like a medic rolling around with a rocket launcher, or a light assault dude with a jump jet who also can use a chaingun. We're offering a lot of cool, divergent gameplay styles that in a completely freeform style system would be way, way too easy to stack and exploit.


Good or bad, we'll see come beta I guess. I think they should give us an inventory so that we can still customize what we take into battle with us, but limit it to things that only that class could take. For example a sniper would get his sniper rifle and no other guns or maybe just a pistol weapon.

However the way they have it planned has me a little worried, but not too badly just yet.


I think that is what they are planning. It sounds to me like we'll be able to customize what we will be carrying and I'm hoping we'll be able to customize how many medkits, ammo packs, nades, etc we want so long as the particular Class you're using at the time is allowed to equip it. You just won't have to play Tetris to get it all to fit into your backpack.

I'm hoping it'll be something along these lines: for the Class and armour type you've currently selected, you're given a drop-down list of "allowed" weapons to choose from. You select the rifle-sized weapons, then the pistol sized ones, add any attachments you've unlocked as desired, then you have "X" number of equipment slots that you'll use to fill with ammo/medkits/support tools. And some equipment (like AV ammo boxes) might take up more than one slot.

In any case I really wish Higby would explain PS2's loadout/inventory system a little more, since not having one that is completely freeform has me worried, too.

[legendary]

Great idea about the map entry points for cloakers, would force anti cloaker patrols or maybe combat engineers could lay traps at the entry/ exit points.