Poll: One stab kill?

[Atuday]

Simply put what kind of melee do people want in the next planetside?

[Logit]

Simply put what kind of melee do people want in the next planetside?

This has been done before.

No, on the 1 stab kill.

NO NO NO NO NO. No matter how you implement it.

NO

[Atuday]

Wow some one posted even before I got the poll typed lol.

[Logit]

Wow some one posted even before I got the poll typed lol.

haha, I really think the way they did it in the first game was fine.

[Atuday]

This has been done before.

No, on the 1 stab kill.

NO NO NO NO NO. No matter how you implement it.

NO

So even if you are a cloaker who has only a rek and a knife? Wow talker about making some people's lives hard.

[Hamma]

:lol:

People feel rather strongly on this issue, I think it should remain as it was in PlanetSide. Nothing is more annoying than the knife in Battlefield. Having someone stab you in the kneecap while you are going into their chest full auto and dying instantly gets old rather quickly.

[Atuday]

I agree Hamma but I put the option up there just so we can all laugh and make fun of any one who selects it.

Personally I think that if you are a cloaker with a knife and little else (perhaps including skills and implants) you should be able to one hit kill. That sort of thing would take time to invest in and would give cloakers more power. That way they don't simply get in the way of my bullets.

For most of the players though having a knife that does damage as a last resort in planetside was a good system.

[klu]

the only way i would be comfortable with a insta-kill knife would be if it was very limited. like headshot only, 'headshot back of the head' only would be even better. that way one could still be rewarded with an easy kill if you truly got the drop on someone while avoiding the typical bf/cod silliness. im not in favor of giving cloakers any special melee ability that isnt available to all.

[Effective]

No one hit stabs. They did a temporary knife buff one time in PS, where it was a 1 hit kill. Not fun.

[Logit]

So even if you are a cloaker who has only a rek and a knife? Wow talker about making some people's lives hard.

I'd assume that it's not going to be this way in the second version.

Even if it did require some time to get there, TONS of people will eventually get there and than it would just be abused.

It's annoying with the amount of people that play BF, let alone 1000s.

[Trolltaxi]

Our race has discovered space travel, wormhols, found Auraxis, built shuttles, bases, tanks, bfrs, men fight in Rexo-s that stop 13 rounds of 9 mills or you survive a near-miss of a 105 mm cannon or a rocket salvo from a reaver in it...

Yet, for some mysterious reason people still try to implement a knife that would kill these men-of-war with a single hit...

I think you should rethink the issue.

[NewSith]

I voted PS1, because I'm a sniper.

I say no to instagib knife.

I say maybe to TF2 backstabbing, or to be precise instagib backstabbing.

I like the way you can prevent backstabs in Crysis2 MP. There is a suit module, that basically gives you a proximity alarm. So if you have it, it starts to beep everytime enemy enters a certain radius around you. The closer the enemy is, the more beeping it does. So if you hear it, you're most likely to forget about sniping and to investigate the source of beeping. Plus, when backstabbing, you become visible and vulnerable for a second, while animation lasts. A solution I'd really like to see in PS2 if there will be any instagib backstabbing.

[EASyEightyEight]

I voted PS1, because I'm a sniper.

I say no to instagib knife.

I say maybe to TF2 backstabbing, or to be precise instagib backstabbing.

I like the way you can prevent backstabs in Crysis2 MP. There is a suit module, that basically gives you a proximity alarm. So if you have it, it starts to beep everytime enemy enters a certain radius around you. The closer the enemy is, the more beeping it does. So if you hear it, you're most likely to forget about sniping and to investigate the source of beeping. Plus, when backstabbing, you become visible and vulnerable for a second, while animation lasts. A solution I'd really like to see in PS2 if there will be any instagib backstabbing.

This. While 1-shot knives suck hard, so does basically getting grenade spammed or some doofus running up to you with a handgun point blank and unloading into your rear. Even worse if it's a Vanu with a magnum: you can barely hear that thing go off. At least with a knife, SOE could work in an animation that reveals the cloaker, and locks him and his victim into the animation. Maybe even turn on the knife automatically so it's also loud. This would make knife kills from cloakers more of a lone-wolf punishment tool... for their victim, but likewise punish a cloaker for attempting a knife kill among a group of enemies. Kind of balances itself out in my mind.

[Sovereign]

No, insta-stabbing just defeats the purpose of secondary fire on the knifes like that of the chain blade.

Only things I would change about it is significantly better its attack arc and radius make it more significant and animated.

[Malorn]

In addition to lethality I also want to add in that quick knife is lame.

Taking out a knife is no more rapid than taking out a pistol. It's a decision to switch weapons and switching has a cost in time for every weapon - the knife should be no different. It also remove sthe possibility for a bayonette to be a useful addon. The value of the bayonette is that its already out and ready-for-use. It is a true quick-knife, and if you have a weapon that allows it or its an upgrade then great, that's a meaningful advantage. Just say no to quick knife.

Also, having an insta kill knife would put a lot of power into the hands of infiltrators, and the counter to that will likley be more anti-infiltration options.

The melee booster implant is another thing to bring back. If someone wants to be effective with the knife, then get the appropriate equipment and implants and boost it.

[Hamma]

I've heard quick knife mentioned a few times and was curious, does that mean instant kill or simply that knife has its own bind and available all the time?

[Duddy]

I've heard quick knife mentioned a few times and was curious, does that mean instant kill or simply that knife has its own bind and available all the time?

That's what I take as the meaning of "quick knife" (as in having it's own bind), and I don't think such a system would be a bad thing.

Provided it only did damage comparable to the knives in PS1 mind you.

[Huma]

Coming from a cloakers perspective and a vet from MW and CoD I would have far less respect for knifers if it was instagib. Nothing says retardedly annoying as being killed by someone you destroying because their in tier instagib knife animation.

[EASyEightyEight]

I'm not for the insta-gib, insta-swipe. That stuff can stay in MW, MAG, and anything else it's found in. If the knife is used as a bayonet, I can see it working along the same concept as Gears of War use of the chainsaw. Takes a half moment to rev up, and getting shot shuts it off for a few moments, but that should lead into a lengthy insta-gib animation as well.

I do think cloakers may as well get an insta-gib backstab (that's loud and forces a temporary uncloak) because right now, they're using methods to quickly kill people anyway via boomers/pistols. In rare cases, they're on top of a wall lobbing plasma grenades.

But a lot of this is speculative on what a cloaker can bring with them in PS2. For all we know, a knife and a REK is just about the extent of their kit.

[Huma]

I've heard quick knife mentioned a few times and was curious, does that mean instant kill or simply that knife has its own bind and available all the time?

A quick knife is from MW2. In game it was referred to as a tactical knife that you could use in tandem with a pistol. The Tac knife was a much faster strike and recovery than your standard knife. It didnt help that if you were close enough to knife you would go into a sprinting animation that made you invulnerable. That animation was even more pronounced when done with the Tac knife.

[Huma]

I've heard quick knife mentioned a few times and was curious, does that mean instant kill or simply that knife has its own bind and available all the time?

I'm not for the insta-gib, insta-swipe. That stuff can stay in MW, MAG, and anything else it's found in. If the knife is used as a bayonet, I can see it working along the same concept as Gears of War use of the chainsaw. Takes a half moment to rev up, and getting shot shuts it off for a few moments, but that should lead into a lengthy insta-gib animation as well.

I do think cloakers may as well get an insta-gib backstab (that's loud and forces a temporary uncloak) because right now, they're using methods to quickly kill people anyway via boomers/pistols. In rare cases, they're on top of a wall lobbing plasma grenades.

But a lot of this is speculative on what a cloaker can bring with them in PS2. For all we know, a knife and a REK is just about the extent of their kit.

Hey now there will be none of that dirty talk. Cloakers get some strong attacks but all of them are dead give aways or are loud already. No cloak dropping from anything should happen. I think knives are fine the way they are. If someone wants to instagib someone they can pull Melee boost and go look for someone with low enough health.

[Rbstr]

I don't think it should be on a hot key, but equip-able. like current PS ect.
It shouldn't ever be a primary, or preferable weapon except in limited circumstances. IE, you would rather draw a pistol, even at close range, when you run out of a clip in your assault rifle than the knife.

I do think that it could have potential one hit kills...sort of like what we've seen in BF3 leaks. You've got to be behind them and there's some kind of time involved there where you can still get shot. Perhaps even with cloaking/melee boost-type-thing being a requirement.

Don't want: TF2 style where "behind" can mean "Just about anywhere" nor BC/MW knifed = dead.

[SKYeXile]

Granted Planetside 2 willbe a faster paced game with faster TTK, it would be harder to close the gap and get into melee, its obvious why a quicknike thats 1 hit kill would be lame in PS, but PS2 will be a different game, so I would be open to see if it could worlk HOWEVER! given that planetside will have battles in confined spaces of weaving corridors with likly indestructable enviroments, sprint, cloakers and probably a whole mass barrage of other thing that would make a quicknife broken, im going to have to say it wont work in PS2.

[Malorn]

I've heard quick knife mentioned a few times and was curious, does that mean instant kill or simply that knife has its own bind and available all the time?

Quick knife in addition to its MW2 usage was also used in Battlefield Bad Company 2. Quite simply, you push one button and your knife instantly comes out. If you are in melee range of a player they are also instantly killed in one hit. You could be firing your assault rifle or have an RPG out and press that button and magically a knife appears in your hand and stabs in one fluid motion. It's really f'ing retarded and one of those things which PS2 should not take inspiration.

[FIREk]

Quick knife = good, as long as it does like 55% damage tops, so that you can't just shove your ass at a group of enemies and insta-kill away.

It must also be very "punishable", like a badly timed move in Street Fighter. ;) So, very quick draw and stab, then a significant delay before you can use your gun again.

It's supposed to be a last resort for the desperate, not a main weapon, I think.

[Malorn]

Planetsiders aren't Wolverine with sharp stabbing weapons built into our hands that appear in an instant.

[EASyEightyEight]

Hey now there will be none of that dirty talk. Cloakers get some strong attacks but all of them are dead give aways or are loud already. No cloak dropping from anything should happen. I think knives are fine the way they are. If someone wants to instagib someone they can pull Melee boost and go look for someone with low enough health.

No, they drop a boomer at your feet, which by the time your client gets that info they've already pressed the button at their end. You're only other cue you're ****ed?

Ba-beep!

At least with a knife the guy is stuck there, and only affecting one target at a time. The issue with the 2 knife hit in PS1 is that barely anyone uses it, because to get anything out of it worth calling killing power is to have melee boost and to have it revved up. Who does that? By the time the cloaker is capable of initiating an attack, the other guy has long since realized someone is there. That's why cloaker deaths are far too often boomers and handguns. They're far more sudden, and simply faster and easier to pull off and let's be honest, escape from.

The dagger part of cloak and dagger needs to be encouraged this time around.

"Planetsiders aren't Wolverine with sharp stabbing weapons built into our hands that appear in an instant."

Wrist blades. Though that should probably be an armor upgrade or something. If there are to be quick knives, they need to be slow and weak. At least with a wristblade upgrade, you may be sacrificing another perk, but you get faster strikes. Still would rather no quick blade at all though.

[Hamma]

Quick knife in addition to its MW2 usage was also used in Battlefield Bad Company 2. Quite simply, you push one button and your knife instantly comes out. If you are in melee range of a player they are also instantly killed in one hit. You could be firing your assault rifle or have an RPG out and press that button and magically a knife appears in your hand and stabs in one fluid motion. It's really f'ing retarded and one of those things which PS2 should not take inspiration.
Ok I am on the same page then. :D

No I don't want this, for any class.

[SavageB]

If you are skilled enough to get close to a person in PS2, I think 2 or so stabbs would do it.

[Malorn]

If you are skilled enough to get close to a person in PS2, I think 2 or so stabbs would do it.

I would agree if the stabber also had the melee boost implant, but it also depends on how lethal other weapons are. My main concern with knife lethality is its easy use by an infiltrator.

At least in PS if an infil was going to knife you it took 2 hits at most with melee boost and alternate fire mode on the knife. This gave you a fighting chance and you also got a little warning about it from the alt fire mode sound. I thought that was a good mechanic and kept melee infils from getting out of hand but was still more than sufficient for talented players.

[EASyEightyEight]

I would agree if the stabber also had the melee boost implant, but it also depends on how lethal other weapons are. My main concern with knife lethality is its easy use by an infiltrator.

At least in PS if an infil was going to knife you it took 2 hits at most with melee boost and alternate fire mode on the knife. This gave you a fighting chance and you also got a little warning about it from the alt fire mode sound. I thought that was a good mechanic and kept melee infils from getting out of hand but was still more than sufficient for talented players.

The problem is, most of them don't knife of those reasons. Most of them stick with the amp, full charge magnum, or a boomer on your butt because they come with no audible forewarning and generally off their target faster anyway. In rare cases, spamming grenades from a wall.

The gist of it is, compared to other forms of assassination, the knife is left on the shelf in favor of less disadvantageous methods. Knives should be rewarding - yet risky - for all the attention they attract to a cloaker.

[Talek Krell]

Why? If they already have the amp, magnum and boomer (the boomer has no audible forewarning? Really?) then why should the knife be made more powerful?

I see no reason a knife shouldn't be a last ditch, used up all my ammo, no chance in hell but rather die fighting option.

[daish k]

Do we know if any weapons will be like the PS1 phoenix? Because if there are weapons that take the players view away from his immediate area, that should also be considered when looking at weapons that will mainly be used by cloakers. I could imagine there being several tools like that, where the player sees something from a different perspective, like drones or spy cameras. And the more of these type of things there are, the worse 1-hit knife kills would be. Although, there could be some argument made that someone who is remote viewing like that would be more vulnerable to knives I suppose.

[Malorn]

The gist of it is, compared to other forms of assassination, the knife is left on the shelf in favor of less disadvantageous methods. Knives should be rewarding - yet risky - for all the attention they attract to a cloaker.

You mean in a world of firearms and explosives a knife isn't the first choice of a assassination weapon? I'm stunned!

[Trolltaxi]

Instakill knifes are simply not fitting into PS.

But it would be fun if in cases you emptied your main weapon you could drop that and pull a knife for a finishing stab. Even faster than your sidearm. Damage would be like in PS1, so it wouldn't help you if you haven't injured your enemy badly.

[Graywolves]

The planetside way is fine. If you could sneak up to people who are doing something else (firing a decimator or something that takes most of their attention) you can get them by surprise and get enough hits to kill them.

You're probably already in an infiltrator type suit so you want to remain stealthy and unknown to avoid darklight. So you should have to pick your targets extra-carefully as you would trying to sneak into the generator or CC while the enemy is spawning and running all over the base.

[Redshift]

Why? If they already have the amp, magnum and boomer (the boomer has no audible forewarning? Really?) then why should the knife be made more powerful?

I see no reason a knife shouldn't be a last ditch, used up all my ammo, no chance in hell but rather die fighting option.

Boomers make an obvious bleep when they are planted, which gives more than enough time to run forward and avoid it, unless you're playing on a god awful connection.

[CutterJohn]

I am fine with one shot kill backstabs, but not from the front or sides. Ambushing someone sitting still and fixated on another target with a knife is good fun. Doing so while they are pumping you full of lead is not as fine.

I would be fine with being able to one shot MAX units from the back as well.

I would like the knives to have the powered mode again, which enables the one shotting behavior. The powered mode would require a chargeup prior to attack, 0.5 to 1s in length, which would make a noise and make a cloaker more visible. Possibly also disrupt the cloak for a few seconds afterwords.

[Bravix]

I'd be fine with 1 hit kill with knife under the following conditions:

-Equip knife, like the current PS knife
-Secondary (noisy) mode must be on
-Must attack from behind
-Animation of kill (it's badass for the killer, makes the victim go "ah F$#%", and keeps the assassin from running up behind a group of players and waving his knife around wildly getting massive kills).

Attacks from anywhere but the rear (lol) would count as failed attacks. They'd do large damage (80% health?), but the attacker would be 'stunned', as if they had swung a sword (or any other similar object) at a solid, unmoving object such as a boulder.

Edit: During the animation I think the cloaker should remain semi-cloaked, like sprinting-across-the-battlefield-cloaked.

You could still get kills from the front, but you'd have to avoid being shot and the person would likely have to already of taken some damage.

[Atuday]

See this is a good thread. I'm glad we had this chat so the devs might use some of these ideas. A lot of them seem pretty balanced.

Special thanks to all the trolls who decided to STFU for once.

[EASyEightyEight]

You mean in a world of firearms and explosives a knife isn't the first choice of a assassination weapon? I'm stunned!

Ironically, in a world where there exists invisible guys meant to work behind enemy lines in the way of infiltration, fully automatic handguns and high yield explosives are far more subtle than the damn tool meant to slit one's throat.

Something seems a little messed up in that picture from where I'm standing.

Boomers make an obvious bleep when they are planted, which gives more than enough time to run forward and avoid it, unless you're playing on a god awful connection.

More like my guns are going off and I'm not standing alone. That crappy little beep is EASILY drowned out by all the other noise. And I'm referring to the plant beep, not the detonation beep, which IS loud (but always too late.)

[Talek Krell]

I've yet to be killed by a boomer I think. They just sound so terribly obvious to me. I think this may just be a case of you not being good about hearing them, and that's anecdotal at best.

The way I see it the point of an infiltrator isn't to rack up kills, it's to infiltrate. Sabotaging equipment, gathering information, and disrupting defenses so your empire's soldiers can more easily advance.

[Ferriman]

As an avid player of Battlefield Bad Company 2 as well as Planetside 1 and other games...

The 1 Stab = 1 Kill with the cinematic style motion of the act is simply beautiful.

YES they should have that in this game BUT! If you have armour of say 100 in PS1 it takes a 2 stabs from the front or in a cinematic style motion (2 stabs to crack through the armour) AND if it's the PS1 200 armour then they can try with the cinematic motion but will FAIL! unless they are attacking from behind in which case I think it's a back of the neck kill!

All attacks to the back of the neck kills should be 1 hit = 1 kill.

You can't make 1 stab = 1 kill when they are wearing heavy armour from the front.

People are going to say no way futuristic armour... understood but what about the futuristic blade... secondary function with the buzz and an attack on a weak point i.e. back of the neck. Buzz noise will give us time to react and unless your good you won't be annoying too many people.

:groovy::groovy::groovy::groovy::groovy::groovy::g roovy::groovy::groovy::groovy::groovy::groovy::gro ovy::groovy::groovy::groovy::groovy:

[exLupo]

-Equip knife, like the current PS knife
-Secondary (noisy) mode must be on
-Must attack from behind
-Animation of kill.

Make the animation short but add in both Melee Boost implant -and- a specific skill tree (knife and other related branches).

Between PS1, TF2 and 2142/BFBC2 I've spent a good amount of time focused on sticking knives in people's backs. In my opinion, I've got a pretty good handle on what works too well, what strikes a balance and what simply doesn't work at all.

BF: Too easy. Quick-knife instagib just makes close engagement boring and, frankly, would be far too strong for a fully invisible unit.

TF2: Equip and back only but still instagib. It rewards the stealth unit for getting to that place unexposed. However, there are still chainstabs. TF2 has, for most knives, the regular Name Knife Name kill marker. PS2 will probably have this and it will be a tell but that alone wouldn't be enough in the huge distraction of the field. However, I think the addition of the knife noise is enough to get anyone who is paying attention to turn around and the infil would then be hosed if they stuck around.

PS1: The current 2 stab model just doesn't work. Yes, you can get someone who isn't paying attention but after the first stab, most players twirl around and hose you. I'm of the opinion that if you've put in the time to get to zero range on your target, have put in the certs and the implant slot, having a 50/50 or less chance at a kill is laughable. The reward for the time required for the action is out of whack. Not that long time should = instant success but I believe people are looking at the actual difficulty of the stab in the wrong way.

For games with slow stab mechanics, the difficulty isn't the stab. The difficulty is the set-up. Getting into the right place. Getting up on your target. Timing the shot so it actually lands in the weak spot. This is even evident in single player games. I'm running Deus Ex 1 for the first time and going for a no-kill completion so I'm doing a lot of creeping, waiting and then whacking guards in the back of the head. The whack? Easy. The setup? That's the hard part. This is only more difficult when you're dealing with real, paranoid humans behind the toon.

The argument that instant kills, with a high setup attack, make for easy play is myopic. If it is easy, I challenge anyone to get the 1000 backstab TF2 achievement without using a bot server. The reality is far, far more difficult than it is made to sound.

---

Léon: The rifle is the first weapon you learn how to use, because it lets you keep your distance from the client. The closer you get to being a pro, the closer you can get to the client. The knife, for example, is the last thing you learn.

[Elude]

Please add weapon bashing to the poll.

[Bravix]

Please add weapon bashing to the poll.

That is a totally separate topic.

However, I REALLY like how weapon 'bashing' in Brink works. It's brilliant. Doesn't do a ridiculous amount of damage, but it knocks them out of your face and on their backs. They have to choose between shooting at you from the floor (with decreased accuracy and no movement) or getting back up.

If you're out of ammo, you CAN kill them with enough melee's but it's far more efficient to shoot them, which it obviously should be.

[Atuday]

That is a totally separate topic.

However, I REALLY like how weapon 'bashing' in Brink works. It's brilliant. Doesn't do a ridiculous amount of damage, but it knocks them out of your face and on their backs. They have to choose between shooting at you from the floor (with decreased accuracy and no movement) or getting back up.

If you're out of ammo, you CAN kill them with enough melee's but it's far more efficient to shoot them, which it obviously should be.

This sort of thing I think would lead to chain blade bayonets :rofl:

I see no real reason for weapon bashing although the system in Brink was good (one of the few things that was) there does not seem to be much of a place for that in planetside.

[EASyEightyEight]

This sort of thing I think would lead to chain blade bayonets :rofl:

I see no real reason for weapon bashing although the system in Brink was good (one of the few things that was) there does not seem to be much of a place for that in planetside.

It might be possible if there is any form of "downed fire" in PS2.

[NewSith]

It might be possible if there is any form of "downed fire" in PS2.

Downed fire (in Brink at least) = lose. I didn't like how they did it in there.

[Firejack]

I voted for the old Planetside style too. Planetside is an action game not some realistic war simulation. Also, nothing more frustrating for a new player to die before he even knows how/ what/ why.

[EASyEightyEight]

I voted for the old Planetside style too. Planetside is an action game not some realistic war simulation. Also, nothing more frustrating for a new player to die before he even knows how/ what/ why.

Unless the game involves small maps, kill cam, and only foot infantry (basically, be CoD) they're going to get a lot of that anyway.

It's safe to assume players new to Planetside will be expecting what is considered the norm in most of today's FPS. That includes a melee attack. Maybe not an insta-gib (though some will complain) but at least some form of it.

If all SOE wanted to cater to were the old PS1 vets happy with PS1, they'd have stuck with just a simple graphics update.

And I agree NewSith. The concept was cool, the execution just sucked. Down fire is meaningless if one can't hit anything 2m away from them.

[WarChimp130]

I'm against just anybody being able to whip out the knife and start instagibbing people, but I'd be for some sort of cloaking application. But make it so that when they get the kill they can't fully cloak for x amount of time, or they can only deliver one such kill for x amount of time. Make it useful for a sneaky cloaker who catches somebody doing something stupid, but not a way to clear out an entire hallway from behind.