Heavy Cloaker Revamped

[Huma]

How about this to address everyones concerns:

- unlockable armor that is very deep in te cloaker tree.
- armor value between standard and agile
- instead of stealthing the suit provides a continous screen from enemy sensors (Misq, Motion Sensor, Interlink)
- only weapon useable in the suit would be a suppresor
- access to standard cloaker gear abilities

Why?
Providing this would give a cloaker the option to contribute in a fire fight where cloaking isnt necessary. This way a cloaker isn't punished for specializing when their team needs a little more fire power. Highly trained light arms/armor > Poorly trained heavy arms/armor.


Better?

[Goku]

This would be meant for in door fights? I do not see the point to be honest. Most likely everyone will have instant access to the base class then go onto specialize. Pretty sure even your standard grunt spec or w/e it will be will be better to have then this. I fail to see how a lightly trained armor with a surpressor will ever out do a regular default load out with a medium assault type rifle. Let alone running into a guy with heavy armor and weapons lol.

[Tatwi]

Providing this would give a cloaker the option to contribute in a fire fight where cloaking isnt necessary.

Why not just switch classes for those fights? That way everyone else isn't punished by over powered cloakers.

[Goku]

Exactly.

Also Tatwi you may want to go for a slightly brighter purple. I have some trouble reading your PS char info area due to the dark background/text.

[Huma]

I fail to see how this would over power cloakers. Not to mention with the increased lethality the suppressor is more than likely going to function more like a SMG. Why punish a cloaker by making them have to switch to an untrained class in order to participate in some fights? Grunts aren't forced into that nor are snipers(played effectively they have a valid indoor role that doesn't involve shotgun sniping). Pilots/Drivers will also be able to pick up something that'll give themselves an option indoors as well I'm sure.
Everyone keeps reiterating that fun is the most important thing to consider. It'll be a nice change of pace for cloakers and you'll have one less cloaker jacking you when you least expect it...where is the down side?

[NewSith]

where is the down side?

With class system, there's no upside either...

[Sirisian]

I like the idea, however I think the change should be that the cloaking is temporary. It would be like cloaking in Crysis. Stay still and your energy doesn't go down. If you move you drain a cloak bar. Activating the cloak would be very fast. Deactivating would take about 2 seconds. If you shoot while cloaked it drains the cloak bar. The cloak bar would only recharge when not cloaked.

I could definitely see something that being balanced into the game with weapon limitations.

Again the goal should be to make every class the most amazing thing ever. This definitely does it. I wonder if there should be cooldowns on certain equipment though.

[Huma]

With class system, there's no upside either...

So because a cloaker is so specialized they have to take it in the face when the fight turns into a base brawl? We dont even know if cloakers are going to have any support skills yet and their already limited by a lack or armor and small arms restriction. The upside is giving cloakers options without forcing them into a kit they obviously didn't want to play in the first place.
Grunts don't HAVE to switch and drivers/pilots have access to good enough armor/arms. There's plenty of upsides for cloakers. Just because you all hate cloakers doesn't mean they have to be so limited.

[Huma]

I like the idea, however I think the change should be that the cloaking is temporary. It would be like cloaking in Crysis. Stay still and your energy doesn't go down. If you move you drain a cloak bar. Activating the cloak would be very fast. Deactivating would take about 2 seconds. If you shoot while cloaked it drains the cloak bar. The cloak bar would only recharge when not cloaked.

I could definitely see something that being balanced into the game with weapon limitations.

Again the goal should be to make every class the most amazing thing ever. This definitely does it. I wonder if there should be cooldowns on certain equipment though.

I think cloaking would be to OP in this instance. Having a permanent active sensor shield would work just as well and keep cloakers in their sneaker role as well. Giving them am option to act more like special forces. Hit the enemy hard and fast them melt away.

[Malorn]

I don't get the point of this thread. What is the thing you are proposing and what are "everyone's concerns?"

[Huma]

I think cloaking would be to OP in this instance. Having a permanent active sensor shield would work just as well and keep cloakers in their sneaker role as well. Giving them am option to act more like special forces. Hit the enemy hard and fast them melt away.

I don't get the point of this thread. What is the thing you are proposing and what are "everyone's concerns?"

Giving cloakers an optional armor that gives them slightly better armor and weapons for those crazy base fights that render them useless except as canon fodder. Everyone seems to be up in arms regarding cloakers getting anything in PS2 other than improved cloaking.
I understand that we will be able to switch roles at will but why force an entire to role to switch to something they obviously don't want to play just so they can be effective in 50% of the fights? Giving a cloaker the option to wear a little armor doesn't over power them in any way nor detract from anyone else's play style.

[Lonehunter]

their already limited by a lack or armor and small arms restriction.

We don't know this yet either.

Can't anyone change classes when they respawn? Then even if you're a hardcore cloaker, you can swap out some basic infantry weapons. They won't be as advanced in the skill tree as a hardcore infantry but it's enough to get the job done.


Or you could make something to allow cloakers to shift into the infantry role without switching classes at all, but that doesn't seem fair or good game design.

[Goku]

Huma to be honest I have no idea what you are talking about. Sounds like this suit has absolutely no space in PS2. I am pretty sure everyone is going to have access to the basic equipment of every class early on, so it shouldn't be hard even if you have to train it. Why should a cloaker user put on a gimped suit with a crappy weapon over a basic grunt load out that will work infinitively better in doors?

[Huma]

Huma to be honest I have no idea what you are talking about. Sounds like this suit has absolutely no space in PS2. I am pretty sure everyone is going to have access to the basic equipment of every class early on, so it shouldn't be hard even if you have to train it. Why should a cloaker user put on a gimped suit with a crappy weapon over a basic grunt load out that will work infinitively better in doors?

Well my reasoning is this. People that play cloakers put a lot of time in on special skills. Currently it takes a lot of investment in certs to make an effective all around cloaker and you get used to having these skills available. But in order to be combat effective in a heavy fire fight we have to drop everything we train for to pick up a kit that doesn't appeal to our playstyle. Giving us an option for slightly better armor & weapons is something cloakers have been asking for since I don't know when. Yes it's not as effective as a grunts as far as absorption goes but it gives us maneuverability and a better gun. I'd rather have that and access to my role skills than play a grunt. Which I don't like playing.

[Huma]

Basically we're willing to make sacrifices to be able to carry a slightly better gun, have a little armor, and carry a little more gear. I figure this is a good optional armor that fulfills what a lot of cloakers have asked for without trying to get a cloaked rifleman running around.
In my outfit I have a very specific role and they rely on me to be there for that role. Sometimes though that role is moot due to how intense the base fights get so I end up running behind them and doing what I can to contribute. I can drop more certs into grunt but I dont like doing grunt work and would rather spec more support skills.
I don't anticipate this being a front lime armor bit it gives cloakers more to work with and still allows them to do their jobs in a heavy fight.

[InternetZombie]

As a cloaker myself I say that this is a pretty bad idea. Even with all my specialization into cloaking I still have med assualt because a cloaker is not ment to be used indoors, same as how you cant bring a tank indoors. I'm wondering why you think a little armour is going to make a cloaker effective in a heavy firefight, in an agile suit with a med assualt gun your still pretty useless in that situation. When you specialize you set yourself up to be very useful in some situations and useless in others. You cannont specialize and be effective all round, if you want to be a cloaker you must accept the fact that there are going to be times when your not very effective.

[Brusi]

How about a heavier armored cloaker suite, that has a greatly reduced run speed (like RExo or maybe even slower and can't carry ANY offensive weapons).

You get your increased survivability while sneaking around in indoor base fights and you can complete sneaky indoor objectives, like setting up router pads and reporting areas of enemy strength/weakness.

[Huma]

How about a heavier armored cloaker suite, that has a greatly reduced run speed (like RExo or maybe even slower and can't carry ANY offensive weapons).

You get your increased survivability while sneaking around in indoor base fights and you can complete sneaky indoor objectives, like setting up router pads and reporting areas of enemy strength/weakness.

That'd work for me, like an actual infiltration suit. Or just other ways to approach a base fo cloakers. I was largely responding to the fee back I was getting from people regarding other posts I've put up really. They put up ideas for a heavier suit with a larger weapon. Figured I'd put up a version that would be less likely to get nerd batted.
Even I'm against the idea of someone running around cloaked with a gauss rifle.

[Goku]

Basically we're willing to make sacrifices to be able to carry a slightly better gun, have a little armor, and carry a little more gear. I figure this is a good optional armor that fulfills what a lot of cloakers have asked for without trying to get a cloaked rifleman running around.
In my outfit I have a very specific role and they rely on me to be there for that role. Sometimes though that role is moot due to how intense the base fights get so I end up running behind them and doing what I can to contribute. I can drop more certs into grunt but I dont like doing grunt work and would rather spec more support skills.
I don't anticipate this being a front lime armor bit it gives cloakers more to work with and still allows them to do their jobs in a heavy fight.

You are making no sense at all. How is having a crappy armor and gun with being immune to radar, but visible like a cloaker? Its stupid. You are just fodder in a base. Either gear up properly for the assault or go elsewhere. Don't whine that you cannot partake due to your cert selection. I want to put a lot of certs into tanks. Can I please get a mini tank to bring in doors and rape everyone then, since I can't bring regular tanks in?

I do not see how this helps really in spec ops either. When I am running around do back line stuff it is normally in empty bases, so I do not worry about radar or being invisible. How is being visible with that kind of set you are describing going to help when you run into a heavy grunt in even a lowly populated base? At least you can runaway with you are cloaked possibly.

Huma I do not think you see the big picture. There is a unlimited amount of certs the only limit is your BR and the time you put into the game. You will not be limited to 20 cert points and not be able to have a basic grunt load while being a total cloaker. Taking maybe a week (probably far less due to the 1000s of certs) to train a basic grunt out of years of playing as a cloaker is not a huge time investment most likely in PS2.

[Malorn]

Infiltration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infiltration_tactics). If you are an infiltrator and you're in a big firefight in a base you are doing something wrong.

"Heavy" and "Infiltration" doesn't even make sense.

[Huma]

Tell you what let me break it down for you:
Currently one of the toughest bases to take is an interlinked base. It shows everyone on radar and effectively neuters cloakers. We can still do our thing but it 10x more difficult. A suit like this does provide minimal protection but it offers a special nich for cloakers to fill in base fights.
By not showing up on radar and still being able to move quickly this suit allows someone to move about a base without the interlink, mossie, or motion sensors lighting them up. This allows them to hit enemies holed up in an area without warning and quickly fall back before the enemy can respond. Why is this useful? Shock tactics. If the enemy isn't sure where someone is going to hit them from it causes them overreact. If they chase the infil they risk running into an ambush. If they stay put they are going to get hit again.
At the same time cloakers would still have all their regular abilities so they could continue to perform the role. For the record anyone who says agile is weak indoors hasn't run into a good ha/sweeper or a coordinated team. Their just as effective and their mobility makes up for the lighter armor.

[Talek Krell]

Why would there be a suit that can turn invisible like a cloaker suit, but also comes with a built in sensor supressor, armor, a better weapon, and presumeably more carrying space? Wouldn't that kind of obsolete the cloaker suit?

[Huma]

No stealth on it just a sensor shield

[Malorn]

So the problem you are attempting to solve is Interfarms?

[Talek Krell]

Ok. I was confused because you said "standard cloaker gear abilities", but the only thing I can think of that's unique to them is invisibility.

[Huma]

So the problem you are attempting to solve is Interfarms?

No, look what I'm suggesting is a way to give cloakers a little more flexibility with regards to situations where cloaking isn't a viable option. Something like this would only give infiltrators another way to contribute to a fight. They retain a certain amount of their sneakiness while not infringing on OP grounds or stepping on the toes of the grunts. You still get to wtfpwn them when you catch them but they get a little more fire power and armor.
Believe me I'm no lazy cloaker. But if I wanted to be a grunt i'd play a grunt. Same as I wouldn't expect you to have to spec cloaker to retain viability in a fight. In the end cloakers are infantry just like grunts are. It only make sense that they have options to retain their viability in their infantry role without having to ditch infiltrator.
And yes we're going to have a lot of options that we can train into. But I know I won't be training in anything other than infiltrator, leader, or medic. I know I'm not good at grunting and I damn sure don't want to be stuck in a vehicle.

[Senyu]

Sounds like an Agil suit with an surpressor and an implant hidding him from sensors.......

[Senyu]

A cloakers role is to be unseen. They shouldn't deviate from that. Instead of mixing their role with other classes just give cloakers more options on what they can do. While still being exactly what they are

[Lonehunter]

First you're still relying too heavily on PLANETSIDE information. In PLANETSIDE 2 we have no idea how many weapons, armor points, tools, or abilities you'll have as a cloaker.

Second you keep saying you need these things because of your role. Your current role, doesn't become a viable option in heavy fights.

That's the role you choose when you spawned. You're all ready talking about a suit that doesn't cloak, so it's not like you can switch from a stealthy cloaker to a more armored now can't-turn-invisible guy with a rifle, you have to go to a terminal or die to get another load out.

So why would you want this thing you're proposing, and not something like switching to the "Grunt Class"

*It would have the same, but probably better firepower then you are mentioning.

*Just as much or more armor

*Since it's another class you'll probably have access to a whole different set of skills that are designed to improve that style "Grunt Class" of gameplay.

Plus you can add something as simple as an implant like Sensor Shield to prevent the interfarm and use "shock tactics"

Once you die, or the action fades away, you can switch back to Cloaker.

In the end it comes down to US NEEDING MORE INFORMATION! All we've had so far is Teasers, not many details.

[exLupo]

I think the point of this armor is to give something more combat viable for players who have spent all of their time deep speccing into infil. Unlike a tank or air specialist, an infil specialist is still infantry. The proposal is to give something to infil specialists so they have an answer in case they are in a situation where their specialization has been, essentially, turned off. Granted, this happens to tank and air when the fight moves inside but that's a case of vehicle vs indoors whereas infil is infantry vs indoors.

Essentially an Agile+ carrot to help deep infil players join squads in combat while still being true to the "infiltration" theme. Additionally, this would possibly provide a unique niche, letting this combat viable unit slip past and disable automated defenses and then, unlike cloakers in PS1, continue on to engage the enemy with their squad.

Like all things with a game in development, you need to ask two questions. 1) Does this solve a problem. 2) How well (poorly to overpowered) does this solve the problem.

1) The problem as perceived by the solution creator: Deep infil speccers, using the PS1 model, would be the only infantry unit that would have to build a whole separate spec to participate in general infantry actions.
2) The evaluation: Removing invisibility and creating Agile+Sensor Shield doesn't sound OP up front. They'd be between as useful to vastly more useful than a tank or air specced unit using basic off-spec gear.

Also consider other games. MW, MAG and PS1, off the top of my head, have support for radar invisibility so there is a desired niche for such an ability. Placing that ability in a tree dedicated to infiltration, one that traditionally has problems meshing with force-oriented situations, seems a fairly natural and elegant solution.

A similar example exists in TF2. The Spy unit traditionally was turned off by heavy fire chokepoints. Valve implemented the Dead Ringer which totally changes the Spy's playstyle, allowing them to bypass those chokepoints and keep functioning where, previously, they would have lost all purpose. The end goal there seems to be the same as it is here. Let specialists who are still operating in their intended area continue to do so without having to start over from scratch.

Can that Spy change to solder on his next death? Sure. Does he have to since the DR was implemented? No. The Spy player can keep doing what they enjoy and have practiced in (see: spent time skilling up for) instead of having to spend 2x the amount of time every other infantry does just to stick with their infantry squad.

---

Personal note. Since the implementation of the Interlink, there has never been a good time for an infil to move with a squad. Your options, before cert proliferation, were to shrug as your buddies ran in, pick up agile and a suppressor or respec. Most people ultimately took the third option. This suggestion provides an option that doesn't involve giving up.

[InternetZombie]

I think the point of this armor is to give something more combat viable for players who have spent all of their time deep speccing into infil. Unlike a tank or air specialist, an infil specialist is still infantry. The proposal is to give something to infil specialists so they have an answer in case they are in a situation where their specialization has been, essentially, turned off. Granted, this happens to tank and air when the fight moves inside but that's a case of vehicle vs indoors whereas infil is infantry vs indoors.

I went ahead and bolded what was important. When you specialize in something you must accept the fact that 90% of combat is not going to be favourable to you.

Essentially an Agile+ carrot to help deep infil players join squads in combat while still being true to the "infiltration" theme. Additionally, this would possibly provide a unique niche, letting this combat viable unit slip past and disable automated defenses and then, unlike cloakers in PS1, continue on to engage the enemy with their squad.

When I'm an infiltrator in a squad I can fill a role, Stay back and rez my squadmates, heal, repair. It's increadable effctive.

Like all things with a game in development, you need to ask two questions. 1) Does this solve a problem. 2) How well (poorly to overpowered) does this solve the problem.

1) The problem as perceived by the solution creator: Deep infil speccers, using the PS1 model, would be the only infantry unit that would have to build a whole separate spec to participate in general infantry actions.
2) The evaluation: Removing invisibility and creating Agile+Sensor Shield doesn't sound OP up front. They'd be between as useful to vastly more useful than a tank or air specced unit using basic off-spec gear.

I fail to see where the problem is, infiltrators were never ment to be used in heavy indoor fighting.

Also consider other games. MW, MAG and PS1, off the top of my head, have support for radar invisibility so there is a desired niche for such an ability. Placing that ability in a tree dedicated to infiltration, one that traditionally has problems meshing with force-oriented situations, seems a fairly natural and elegant solution.

MW and MAG dont have people that can be completely invisable, also there is an implant in PS1 that does that....Why not just use that?

A similar example exists in TF2. The Spy unit traditionally was turned off by heavy fire chokepoints. Valve implemented the Dead Ringer which totally changes the Spy's playstyle, allowing them to bypass those chokepoints and keep functioning where, previously, they would have lost all purpose. The end goal there seems to be the same as it is here. Let specialists who are still operating in their intended area continue to do so without having to start over from scratch.

TF2 is a whole other beast, and trust me when I say that the Dead Ringer can fool people, once maybe twice before people start to realize how it works and then the spies die anyways

Can that Spy change to solder on his next death? Sure. Does he have to since the DR was implemented? No. The Spy player can keep doing what they enjoy and have practiced in (see: spent time skilling up for) instead of having to spend 2x the amount of time every other infantry does just to stick with their infantry squad.

Did you ever play TF2 before it went free?

---

Personal note. Since the implementation of the Interlink, there has never been a good time for an infil to move with a squad. Your options, before cert proliferation, were to shrug as your buddies ran in, pick up agile and a suppressor or respec. Most people ultimately took the third option. This suggestion provides an option that doesn't involve giving up.

The Interlink is a single base type, and while you might not be valuable in that fight you will be valuable in others, accept this.

[Malorn]

In agreement with Zombie. Specialization is a tradeoff - more effectiveness in one area at a cost of effectiveness in another. Classes force you to make that tradeoff in some fashion.

Tank drivers and pilots are less effective outside of their vehicles. MAX pilots are less effective outside their suits. Light Assault will be less effective in places where their jetpacks aren't as useful. Engineers will be less effective when there's nothing to repair or destroy. Medics are less effective when nobody is taking damage or dying.

Every class in Planetside 2 will have built-in tradeoffs and infiltration is no different.

You have lots of options

1) Go someplace else where your skills will be more useful.
A lot of warfare should be going on in PS2 on the same continent and on different continents simulatneously. There is no need to confine it to a single base. I would expect the reason you aren't considering this is the current sad state that PS1 is in with its low population converging into one area at a time and conflict being driven by base captures. With the territory control and resource system of PS2 I expect this to change dramatically so if you don't want to fight at an interfarm you don't have to.

2) Be creative and find something within your skillset that you can do that will be useflul.
Zombie mentioned repairing/healing people and basically performing one-stop-shop duties. I had a few infils in my outfit who did that in the early days of PS and it was nice when our grunts didn' thave ot put away their weapons and repair up. I suspect it'll be a lot more valuable in PS2 when there's no 3rd person to watch around the corner while you self-heal. There could be other things you can do as well, like work on planting a virus or bring in an AMS, or scout out other entrances and see if there's one that isn't as heavily guarded. Or guard one of your key spawn points (like a tower/AMS).

3) Switch to a role more suited to the situation.
Higby also stated that we'd be able to learn the basic roles of other classes within a day, giving medic, engineer, and tank driver as an example. So having a light assault or engineer or something else to do if for some reason you simply cannot function as an infiltrator and cannot possibly find something you could be doing spend a day and learn another role that interests you and fall back to it in those situations. Medic and Engineer are obvious choices, and Engineer might be required anyway to unlock combat engineering which I would imagine you want if you're going to do a lot of infiltration, assuming they can still use CE. Higby also said we'd like what we see with the PS2 cloaking experience. Just have to wait and see what that is.

The solution is not to make every specialization work in every situation. That defeats the whole purpose of specialization. No one is forcing you to specialize deeply into one thing and completely neglect everything else. If you refuse to do that then accept that you chose that path and deal with it. If you can't spend a few days training up other classes that you fear you need to use for any significant amount of time then that's your own fault. If you can't find other ways to be useful within your role of choice then that too is your own fault. The paths exist, though in the context of current PS1 the population is too low for that to work out. I highly recommend that if your context is Planetside as it exists today that you take it with a grain of salt. It really is nothing like what it was in the first few years in its prime.

[Huma]

I understand where your coming from Malorn and I do all of those regularly in PS. But take a moment to look at what the classes mean for a cloaker.
First off they've made it so that you can no longer hack enemy vehicles. Ok so hacking is now relegated to doors and CCs now.
Secondly we don't have any verification on whether or not cloakers are going have the ability to heal or repair others let alone revive people.
Thirdly we don't have any verification that cloakers are going to get to use CE again or if their just getting boomers or what.
So that leaves cloakers with two things. Killing with pistols and grenades. The only good news I've seen so far is that the cloakers camo is getting fixed. So going of the information we have available and the knowledge we have regarding how restrictive the role system is going to be there's not a lot of options for cloakers at all. That being said considering the info we have to go off of I don't see hoe it would be so ar fetched to give cloakers te option to wear better armor. Otherwise at this point why bothe with cloaking at all.

[Goku]

Huge difference between a cloaker and a guy with shitty armor not being picked up on radar.

[Huma]

Huge difference between a cloaker and a guy with shitty armor not being picked up on radar.

True but what else would you have them do? They'll be able to scout, kill a few people, and hack a door/cc. Not a lot of purpose to specialize as an infiltrator when it's that limited.

[Goku]

Switch to a basic grunt load out and be useful. That is what I would tell a cloaker player in my outfit anyway if cloaking is not beneficial at that time.

[Malorn]

Still pointless when the whole idea is based on interlink bases existing.

[Huma]

Not beneficial at that time. Ok so it's an infantry class that has no combat viability in a base but their only unique specialization requires them to go into a base... How does that make sense? And it's not just interlinks Malorn. There's also mosquito radar and motion sensors as well.

[Goku]

That is what SS is for to be honest. In fairly less populated bases with around a squad I have had many good cloakers give me a run for my money. Between boomering or getting the jump on me with their gun and at rare times a knife. 95% of the time I played PS I have had DL either, but I often could see cloakers enough when moving to quickly to kill them so I was no slacker when it came to killing them.

[Huma]

That is what SS is for to be honest. In fairly less populated bases with around a squad I have had many good cloakers give me a run for my money. Between boomering or getting the jump on me with their gun and at rare times a knife. 95% of the time I played PS I have had DL either, but I often could see cloakers enough when moving to quickly to kill them so I was no slacker when it came to killing them.

That's true but we don't even know if cloakers are going to get boomers. All we gave to off of right now is the limited information regarding the restrictions on each role. Even if a cloaker is effective in a moderate base fight that's still cutting their role down to a handful if situations. It's like saying. Grunt is only effective if a fight in a base is really heavy. Not to mention that a lot of the fighting will be out doors as well.
As it stand right now I don't see a reason for anyone to really specialize in infiltration when it's so severely limited. The only reason I'm even suggesting armor for them s because there has to be something or them worth while. Otherwise it's like specializing as a light switch flipper.

[Lonehunter]

Huma you're still assuming way too much. We have almost NO information on ANY classes.

As it stand right now I don't see a reason for anyone to really specialize in infiltration when it's so severely limited.

This is all I need to prove my point, but I feel like I'm trying to make a pervert forget how to masturbate. It just ain't happenin. Keep up the creativity, but please just WAIT FOR MORE INFO.

Edit: One thing I had to add, is the possibility of so many Infiltrator style bonuses they could implement that had nothing to do with PS1. Like a remote camera you can place on a wall. That's probly the only cloaker info come from Higby's mouth so far.

[Goku]

Like others have said we do not know what cloakers will have, but that will not stop us from speculating of course. A cloaker in PS if having combat engineering in my opinion used it often for spec ops with boomers for blowing tactical targets and not for the spits/mines. I think the devs do see that and hopefully will add in a heavy explosive specifically for cloakers allowing them to continue doing spec ops. I will say that is one area besides hacking cloakers often excelled in. Be shame for that to go away due to not having boomers anymore. With hacking gone I bet there is going to have be more cloaker abilities. Lets not forget there is a skill tree just for cloakers who knows what kind of weapons to gadgets you guys will be able to make use of.

This just came to me when I was typing out this post. The devs are talking about having customization for everything from how tanks are driven to weapon mechanics. Maybe they will go as far to add a trade off in the actual cloaker suit. From adding on armor plates to take less damage, but that will slow you down while being more visible. There is hit boxes in the game, so we could go as far to say there could be specific pieces a cloaker could put on from their chest to shins to take less damage. This probably is OP in some regard of course though. Not saying I want in game either as it just example of what possibly could be in there for cloakers.

[Talek Krell]

Is sensor shield not an implant that most cloakers would carry anyway? It seems like it would make more sense to just use agile and a better gun.


I think you're getting ahead of yourself here. As you've said, we have very little information. You're assuming that cloakers are going to be only losing functionality and not gaining any. They've told us that vehicles aren't hackable anymore, but I'll be suprised if they aren't adding in more things that are hackable. . .

That would put you roughly on par with our hypothetical dedicated tank driver running around with his BANK during an indoor fight.

[Huma]

Is sensor shield not an implant that most cloakers would carry anyway? It seems like it would make more sense to just use agile and a better gun.


I think you're getting ahead of yourself here. As you've said, we have very little information. You're assuming that cloakers are going to be only losing functionality and not gaining any. They've told us that vehicles aren't hackable anymore, but I'll be suprised if they aren't adding in more things that are hackable. . .

That would put you roughly on par with our hypothetical dedicated tank driver running around with his BANK during an indoor fight.

At least the tank driver has a job that's effective most of the time and very effective in their area. :)

[Huma]

True Goku I'm really hoping they give cloaker some serious loving because part of their charm was that you traded of combat effectiveness for increased functionality. Now without the functionality what is a cloaker getting in return for the trade off?

[Talek Krell]

Whether cloakers are effective at their jobs seems like a different topic altogether.

[Goku]

Only thing I can think of is keeping the original suit with high mobility/stealth. Adding the additional armor will slow you down, make you more visible, and make implants use more stam as with agile vs rexo. Not sure to how much of a extent these will effect a cloaker or how much the armor helps. One way with everything on you move like a rexo and when even doing the crouch slow walk that will make you as visible almost as the current cloaker when running around, but you will still be invisible totally when you stop moving. The way I see it is the head/chest is the best for protection, but being heavier causes the issues mentioned above. I do see this similar to your current idea/sniper one, but cloaker is still at least stuck with only a pistol slot. Wouldn't of thought of this otherwise. I could go into this idea more, but I honestly do not know if it would even help cloakers that much as I really never used the suit.

[Peacemaker]

Ya keep going back to the same things. Cloaker sucks in a heavy fire fight. Cloaker can't fight. Cloaker can't do this. The role is specialised. It does a niche very well (and will be better if they fix gama sploits and what not). Your also totally ignoring what a ton of people said already. Sensor shield implant + MA + Agile > Worse than agile, worse than MA, built in sensor shield. WHY would you want that? Because its not classified as a "grunt"?

The suit you propose would likely take some decent training time, so why not leave it out, train a few skills for the Sensor shield, MA, and Agile, and save the time. Basicly what your asking for exsists in PS1 already, and requires 2 cert points to pick up MA.

What you want is akin to asking for an agile armor that's slow like rexo, has 2 MA weapon slots, less inventory, and less armor than rexo. It wouldn't be OP it would be gimped.

[Huma]

Whether cloakers are effective at their jobs seems like a different topic altogether.

Actually it's part of the basis for the post. As I explained above cloakers are losing ALOT of functionality in PS2 based off what we know of the role system. What their left with is flipping buildings. Considering the size of the battles to come and the cloakers ineffectiveness in large scale building fights even their hacking ability will be highly limited.
To be effective they'll have to go grunt til the fight is over or cools off. Effectively making them into a key an nothing more. I'm just making a suggestion based off the available information.

[Huma]

Ya keep going back to the same things. Cloaker sucks in a heavy fire fight. Cloaker can't fight. Cloaker can't do this. The role is specialised. It does a niche very well (and will be better if they fix gama sploits and what not). Your also totally ignoring what a ton of people said already. Sensor shield implant + MA + Agile > Worse than agile, worse than MA, built in sensor shield. WHY would you want that? Because its not classified as a "grunt"?

The suit you propose would likely take some decent training time, so why not leave it out, train a few skills for the Sensor shield, MA, and Agile, and save the time. Basicly what your asking for exsists in PS1 already, and requires 2 cert points to pick up MA.

What you want is akin to asking for an agile armor that's slow like rexo, has 2 MA weapon slots, less inventory, and less armor than rexo. It wouldn't be OP it would be gimped.

At least there would be something. As far as we know no other role will have the ability to hack. Considering that base fights arent going to happen as much and if their to hot a cloaker isn't going to be able to hack...their pretty much hosed. What's the point in specializing in something that you aren't going to use 75% of the time?
So far we're not going to be able to heal/repair others, hack anything but a building, and CE is up in the air. It doesn't leave us with much and what's left is only useful on rare occasions. What do you think they could do to help cloakers hold up a little better in a fire fight? Because just switching defeats the purpose of having a cloaker

[exLupo]

I keep seeing this from a BF perspective.
1) Pick a role at spawn:
a) Heavy
- Armor option: Agile / Rexo (unlocked)
- Weapon: SA / MA (unlocked) + Mods (Unlocked) / HA (Unlocked) + Mods (Unlocked)
- Specialty Slot 1: Blah
- Specialty Slot 2: Blah
- Implants: A B C or D
b) Medic
- Armor option: Agile
- Weapon: SA / MA (unlocked) + Mods (Unlocked)
- Slot 1: Advanced Medic Tool
- Slot 2: Blah
- Implants: A B C or E
c) Infil
- Armor Option: Agile / Infil suit (unlocked)
- Weapon: SA / MA (unlocked) + Mods (Unlocked)
- Slot 1: Advanced REK
- Slot 2: Radar Cloak (tying it into the thread)
- Implants: B C D or F
D...) Sniper... and on like that.

The point being that you need to bring an infil for whatever kinky hacking stuff they'll have. Simply dumping infil for another role because it can't join the fight would be a failing in the design as a whole. Need those terms hacked? You'll probably need an infil. As such, infils will need to be able to join the party. However, if all non-heavy roles are limited to agile or specialist agile+ variants (see: ghillie thread) then an infil or medic with associated utility tools in agile will be the indoor standard for support roles.

Could you bring a cloaked infil? Sure, but then you'd lose out on a MA (SA?) shooter for a non-combatant who is also more vulnerable to stray and area fire. If Agile and MA are baseline trainable options for all roles, supports (medic, infil, sniper) included then relegating secondary abilities to utility slots is a natural evolution.

What I see in this thread is the automatic assumption that Infil Skill Tree = Cloak Only and I don't think that's exactly how the role system is going to be set up. Giving everyone an Agile+MA baseline goes a long way to making support skillsets viable in more situations. It allows infantry support roles the freedom to specialize and actually spawn as that support role. Ultimately, it preserves role diversity and I don't see any problems with that.

[Huma]

Only thing I can think of is keeping the original suit with high mobility/stealth. Adding the additional armor will slow you down, make you more visible, and make implants use more stam as with agile vs rexo. Not sure to how much of a extent these will effect a cloaker or how much the armor helps. One way with everything on you move like a rexo and when even doing the crouch slow walk that will make you as visible almost as the current cloaker when running around, but you will still be invisible totally when you stop moving. The way I see it is the head/chest is the best for protection, but being heavier causes the issues mentioned above. I do see this similar to your current idea/sniper one, but cloaker is still at least stuck with only a pistol slot. Wouldn't of thought of this otherwise. I could go into this idea more, but I honestly do not know if it would even help cloakers that much as I really never used the suit.

Yeah it's hard to make infiltrators combat effective with cloaking. Hence why I proposed another way to do it and still retain their abilities. As other cloakers have said cloaking is about cloaking. Which I completely agree with and love doing. I just hate to see cloakers lose their versatility.
The only other thing I've seen remotely close to helping is the idea someone put up regarding alternative building entrances for cloakers.

[Talek Krell]

As I explained above cloakers are losing ALOT of functionality in PS2 based off what we know of the role system.

The only thing we know about the role system is that there's a role system.

As far as we know no other role will have the ability to hack.

You're blindly assuming this too now? This is.....what?...I don't even...

[Lonehunter]

cloakers are losing ALOT of functionality in PS2 based off what we know of the role system.

What their left with is flipping buildings.

the cloakers ineffectiveness in large scale building fights

even their hacking ability will be highly limited.

WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION?!?!?!? Are you Higby or something? Because there has been nothing released to back up what you say.

I'm just making a suggestion based off the available information.

NO YOU'RE NOT!
All you're doing is thinking of problems in Planetside one and assuming they'll be in Planetside 2. Plus you're using the lack of certain information to guarantee other information, and neither has been varified or even mentioned.

[Kouza]

WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION?!?!?!? Are you Higby or something? Because there has been nothing released to back up what you say.



NO YOU'RE NOT!
All you're doing is thinking of problems in Planetside one and assuming they'll be in Planetside 2. Plus you're using the lack of certain information to guarantee other information, and neither has been varified or even mentioned.

I don`t see any ideas posted by you, at least Huma is taking the time to show some fucking initiative. Don`t tell me we cant talk about it without knowing more information because, basically you should GTFO if you don`t want to talk planetside 2 ideas in a planetside 2 discussion thread.

That being said. A sensor shield variant should be on the cloaker tree. FO SHO :). One that drains stamina fast starting out, and then one that has a much slower drain further at the end.

[Lonehunter]

Coming up with ideas is good and I encourage it, I've even told Huma to keep up the creativity.

But there's a big difference between a concept, and using the previous game to make unconfirmed assumptions about the sequel. I want this game to succeed and people are all ready tattooing PS1's problems onto it, then making ideas how to fix that. How do you know it needs fixing? How do you know it will be broken in the first place? Isn't it bad to take the problems of one game, assume they'll be in another, and start thinking of fixes?

I apologize for being so negative and I'll stay out of this discussion now, but this kind of thinking just doesn't seem productive.

[Huma]

Not going to sit here and argue:

1: Considering what their going for in the roles each role will be the only one with acces to their own abilities. Until they come out with the actual trees I'm going with that assumption.

2: The "signature" ability for cloakers is hacking. With the removal of the ability to hack vehicles that leaves just bases.

3: The scale of the fights are going to be larger and the lethality is going up. Considering current base design that they have already said their keeping cloakers aren't going to be to do anything in these fights. Their going to be relegated to smaller fringe fights.

4: MW2 & Black Ops have light weight classes and invisibility to enemy radar. These classes are extremely effective in that you don't know their there until they smash you and that fade back before you can respond.

5: All of you going off about this isn't cloaker are the ones stuck on planetside 1 thinking. Quit complaining about an idea and either constructively criticize or stfu. Your not helping by bashing.

[Huma]

To clarify I re-read the features in regards to abilities and bases. You'll be able to change between classes but what you specialize in stays the same. So technically you will be able to heal other people outside of the medic role but it won't be as effective. So there is still a chance for cloakers to be versatile we'll just have to dump extra hours in medic, and engie to be able to use some of the abilities as a cloaker.
They also mentioned something about interior design being larger. So with any luck they'll be making bases a little more accessible for cloakers.

[Senyu]

Wall of text hurts my eyes.


From light skimming It seems people are really wondering what the Cloakers role is even going to be?I mean if I understand correctly you won't be as good as a medic if you spec cloak. And perhaps even hacking. So really what role does the Cloaker provide?


Figure that out and then increase the options of what you can do in that role as a cloaker. Don't mix him up with other classes. Give him unique role specific things and a large versatile pool of options to perform unqiue variations of that role.

[Logit]

I feel as if the word Heavy, and the word cloaker. Don't even belong in the same Thread.

Unless it was something like "I saw a cloaker take a heavy dump the other day."

Cloakers should be weaklings, it's the nature of the style of play. YOU'RE INVISIBLE

[Huma]

I feel as if the word Heavy, and the word cloaker. Don't even belong in the same Thread.

Unless it was something like "I saw a cloaker take a heavy dump the other day."

Cloakers should be weaklings, it's the nature of the style of play. YOU'RE INVISIBLE

True but until I found the add info regarding a more open base design it seemed like the only way to go to me. Now with a larger interior design I have a feeling it will be much more porous and cloaker friendly.

[exLupo]

Cloakers should be weaklings, it's the nature of the style of play. YOU'RE INVISIBLE

Higby specifically refers to the role as "Infiltrators"*. Assuming always-on invisibility as the role's defining characteristic may well be something left behind with PS1.

*" - You'll have fun as an Infiltrator in PS2, I promise." here (http://forums.station.sony.com/ps/posts/list.m?topic_id=88000027850).

Consider a comparison to the BF series: 2142 recons have invisibility. They can also wear heavy armor and use a light variant assault rifle for when they are operating in close with a squad.

[Kilmoran]

How about this to address everyones concerns:

- unlockable armor that is very deep in te cloaker tree.
- armor value between standard and agile
- instead of stealthing the suit provides a continous screen from enemy sensors (Misq, Motion Sensor, Interlink)
- only weapon useable in the suit would be a suppresor
- access to standard cloaker gear abilities

Why?
Providing this would give a cloaker the option to contribute in a fire fight where cloaking isnt necessary. This way a cloaker isn't punished for specializing when their team needs a little more fire power. Highly trained light arms/armor > Poorly trained heavy arms/armor.


Better?

I did this exact same thing all the time as an agile. Suppressor (Armor rep and med usually), REK. Was my standard because with how my certs were... i really didn't have any other weapons any how. Then again, we used to have implants for this sort of set up any how (Silent steps i think).

[Knocky]

Did you REALLY have to dig this up after 7 months?

[Kilmoran]

True but until I found the add info regarding a more open base design it seemed like the only way to go to me. Now with a larger interior design I have a feeling it will be much more porous and cloaker friendly.

If cloakers can properly manuver... then the bases could easily be alot like the caverns were for cloakers... which was essentially a "concrete jungle" for movement. Of course, Light Assault right now are much better at that and well.. may make any cloaker manuverability far less effective.

[Kilmoran]

Did you REALLY have to dig this up after 7 months?

Ah.. actually i didn't even know it was 7 months old. The forum recommended it, I saw it and repleid without looking at the dates.

[Skitrel]

I believe it was mentioned that infiltrators are the only class that can hack, though correct me if I've imagined that from the AMA. This makes them invaluable and a necessary role to have around.

[Kilmoran]

I believe it was mentioned that infiltrators are the only class that can hack, though correct me if I've imagined that from the AMA. This makes them invaluable and a necessary role to have around.

I certainly haven't heard this confirmation, but if it is true i heavily disagree with it as having any class that is 100% essential for major gameplay situations is going to cause major issues.

[stordito]

Cloackers are now more effective since bases are now more "open".
there are plenty of places to hide (not just CY corners and corridors holes)
no more corridor spam means that a base is could be easily infiltrated even during the usual lead storm.

[Kilmoran]

Cloackers are now more effective since bases are now more "open".
there are plenty of places to hide (not just CY corners and corridors holes)
no more corridor spam means that a base is could be easily infiltrated even during the usual lead storm.

It also means there is less reason to be cloaked in the first place for the exact same reasons that is is easier to cloak. However i certainly agree with you.

Though I will also apologize again for necroing this thread as that was not my intent.

[Talek Krell]

I believe it was mentioned that infiltrators are the only class that can hack, though correct me if I've imagined that from the AMA. This makes them invaluable and a necessary role to have around.I don't think that's accurate. I haven't heard it before anyway.

[Skitrel]

I don't think that's accurate. I haven't heard it before anyway.

Q: Can infiltrators capture/hack significantly faster?

A: Capture no, hack yes. Right now infiltrators are the hacking class.

I take that to mean Infiltrators are the ONLY class that can hack. This makes them an absolutely essential support class as opposed to an unessential class that just hides and/or snipes. It gives them a necessary place in teamwork as opposed to just being useless annoying wastes of space or lonewolves (like bf snipers)

[Talek Krell]

I take that to mean Infiltrators are the ONLY class that can hack.Ah, I had taken it to mean that they would be faster or in some fashion more effective than other classes. I can see your logic, although making them outright required seems like it might be overkill.

[Knocky]

Ah, I had taken it to mean that they would be faster or in some fashion more effective than other classes. I can see your logic, although making them outright required seems like it might be overkill.

They are trying to compensate for the lack of hacking ability that PS1 has.

[Talek Krell]

They are trying to compensate for the lack of hacking ability that PS1 has.I don't follow. Explain further?

[Knocky]

I don't follow. Explain further?

How can you not follow? You have more posts then I do. Don't you know Cloakers in PS2 can hack a door and equipment terminals and that is it.

They make the only class that can open a locked door a cloaker. So therefore it is just a way to force a squad to accept a particular class.

Hopefully I am wrong and there will be many cool things that cloakers can do. But we do know that as far a hacking/jacking go, PS2 will have a miniscule portion of that.

Personally I would give up the class specific bolt driver if I could jack vehicles and decon em.

[Death2All]

I'm really not overly thrilled about Cloakers having Snipers in the first place. Now you want to give them added armor and an SMG like weapon?


I think the primary focus of cloaking should be stealth and sabotaoge. I don't see it why it has to be an invisible killing machine.


You play a Cloaker to cloak. If you want to kill the shit out of people, play one of the other classes that allows you do that.

[Talek Krell]

How can you not follow?Well the way you stated it makes it sound to me like the original game was an unskilled hacker and his/her/its skills would increase if only cloakers were allowed to hack in the sequel.

I stand by my interpretation that cloakers are better at hacking than other classes. The idea that the devs would want to make the game flow more quickly and then implement a change that would require an offensive to grind to a halt at every door and find a cloaker in order to force people to play a class makes no sense to me.

[ThGlump]

They make the only class that can open a locked door a cloaker. So therefore it is just a way to force a squad to accept a particular class.

Where did you get that? The only things they mentioned that will be hackable only by infil are terminals. Nothing more. There is no way they would make infiltrators mandatory to go through doors and to hack a base.

[Knocky]

I'm really not overly thrilled about Cloakers having Snipers in the first place. Now you want to give them added armor and an SMG like weapon?

Who is "you" and Higby talked about MAYBE a shotgun, no mention of a SMG that I am aware of.

I think the primary focus of cloaking should be stealth and sabotaoge. I don't see it why it has to be an invisible killing machine.

I agree completely.....and jacking vehicle.....


You play a Cloaker to cloak. If you want to kill the shit out of people, play one of the other classes that allows you do that.

I like boomers in hallways.

Where did you get that? The only things they mentioned that will be hackable only by infil are terminals. Nothing more. There is no way they would make infiltrators mandatory to go through doors and to hack a base.

Ok, I am probably wrong about that.

[Death2All]

Who is "you" and Higby talked about MAYBE a shotgun, no mention of a SMG that I am aware of.
"You" being the OP of the thread. It was a bit too subjective, but oh well

[kaffis]

Maybe while we're doing this, we can make optional flying jump-jets for tanks so they don't have to switch to uncerted air vehicles to participate in air battles where they're rendered pretty much useless by impassable terrain.

[EVILPIG]

I'll add that I am not particularly fond of Infiltrators with sniper rifles, but you have to change your way thinking. An infiltrator can specialize as a scout if you want to be a sniper. Their ability to cloak will be the worst of all infiltrators. Either way, infiltrators will have to uncloak to attack, and while this may not be a massive downside, it is one and we'll have to see how the balance is in Beta. They may have to take a full second uncloaking. They may not be able to move. Let's just see, but I think the developers see it like a Predator. "One ugly mother fucker" and all.