IF this game will be faster paced then...

[SavageB]

IF this game will be faster paced then I want faster item switching, I find it annoying in the current game that it takes forever to switch back and forth between holsters to utilize what you want. To add something to another thread that was started about inventories, Id like to not have to open my inventory and drag an item from it and put it in a holster slot. If would be nice if I can set up a quick key to use that item in the inventory on call without doing the switching thing. Or even have a button to scroll through my inventory items, for example having a rek in the third holster slot but i can hit a button to equip anything that would aply to that holster, which would make it far more effecient. I can see this type of thing happening I hope in hte sequel.

Thoughts/comments?

[Bags]

You do realize you can right click an item in your inventory and it will get placed in a slot, right? But yes, the inventory is slightly clunky.

I like slow item switching. It rewards people for catching you with your pants down. It's part of what makes MAXes so effective: you have a 2 - 3 second window between them pulling out their decis and switching to their anti-infantry guns.

I really hope we don't see instant weapon switching, but we probably will.

[SavageB]

You do realize you can right click an item in your inventory and it will get placed in a slot, right? But yes, the inventory is slightly clunky.

I like slow item switching. It rewards people for catching you with your pants down. It's part of what makes MAXes so effective: you have a 2 - 3 second window between them pulling out their decis and switching to their anti-infantry guns.

I really hope we don't see instant weapon switching, but we probably will.

Yea I know you can do that, but it still can get annoying at times. At the sametime you raise a valid point, maybe it doesnt have to be instant but something less annoying at least.

[CrystalViolet]

Yeah, I found this really annoying in PS. Wasn't as bad when the deci only took 2 shots to kill a max. I get the feeling that switching will be much faster in PS2 since they're ditching the jack of all trades inventory system in favor of more specialized roles.

[Malorn]

You do realize you can right click an item in your inventory and it will get placed in a slot, right? But yes, the inventory is slightly clunky.

I like slow item switching. It rewards people for catching you with your pants down. It's part of what makes MAXes so effective: you have a 2 - 3 second window between them pulling out their decis and switching to their anti-infantry guns.

I really hope we don't see instant weapon switching, but we probably will.

+1

This is core to MAX / Infantry balance, at least in terms of switching between damage types (AI vs AV).

[Graywolves]

Fast weapon switching is silly in my opinion.

If you need to switch your weapon then you need to take cover to do so. The MAX balance is another good point and depending on how anti-armor will be, that is an issue as well.


I doubt faster weapon switching will come anyways because that supports a jack-of-all-trades or lone wolf model more than anything else.

[Sirisian]

Just need a matrix of describing the time to switch from one weapon to another. Each one should be unique. Switching from sniper to pistol would be fast for instance, but switching from pistol to sniper would be slow. These kinds of things help a lot. Going from HA to AV could be slow, but HA to MA might be quicker.

As for inventory hot keying I agree. However if a weapon isn't bound to a holster it should have it's own unique switch time. If you have an MA and HA on your back in holsters then grabbing a deci from inventory (however that's implemented or if you can even hold weapons in your inventory) would be a slow switch time indicating that you chose not to have it in a holster slot.

[Logit]

Why should it be instant? This is the same argument as removing vehicle load screens.

IMO, it was fine the way it was.

[CrystalViolet]

No one said it should be instant, just faster. The Original game draws out the item switching to an extent that makes the game feel sluggish and rigid compared to other shooters. imo, the class system should take care of the balance issue.

[Death2All]

Instant weapon switching imbalances the game and it really takes away from my immersion.

But really, instant switch is stupid. If the game was just an infantry combat game without any MAXes then it would make sense. But considering that there are tanks, aircraft and MAXes to consider, being able to instantly switch to your effective weapon would imbalance the game and give infantry far too much power.

Also, fast paced could mean anything. CoD is a fast paced FPS and even it doesn't have instant weapon switching.

[Zulthus]

Weapon switching is perfect the way it is right now. No change needed.

[EASyEightyEight]

I'd allow fast switching TO AV/HA FROM MA if one of the customization options was say, a speed sling? But then you might be sacrificing a grenade launcher, or an under-barrel shotgun, or a fore-grip, or what-have-you. But not HA/AV to MA. Otherwise, while I could go for a slightly faster weapon swap with a feeling of urgency like my guy is in an actual warzone, I'm mostly fine with PS1's swap speeds.

...Until I really need that instant swap.

P.S. If only it would be, "Weapon swap, indirect general purpose splash, close-range firepower, or accuracy, take your pick! :D"

[SavageB]

Maybe it will be a skill we will be able to cert..Skill allows faster weapon switching up to and inc 3% for example.

[Raymac]

1) The only people on this thread that even mentioned "instant" weapon swapping has been people saying they don't want it. Great. We can all agree on that.

2) You can have quicker and less clunky (click, drag, click, drag, hit Esc button, yada yada) without it being "instant". For example, it takes a little bit of time to switch between slot 1 and slot 2 in Planetside.

3) The only drawback I see with the OP is that purists don't want to deviate from the current inventory system because of it's customization options.

[Sirisian]

Weapon switching is perfect the way it is right now. No change needed.
You don't think it would be nice to give a use to the pistol (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37043)? That's my main gripe with the PS item switch system.

Obviously the weapon switch from inventory needs to be slower than a reload though to stop people from fast swapping instead of reloading, but for guns you have in your actual holsters switching is a bit extreme between certain combinations.

[CrystalViolet]

I think another huge issue with the Planetside switching was that if you accidentally hit the wrong key (something that happened a lot in those frantic firefights), you'd have to sit through the draw and holstering animations for the wrong piece of kit before you could access the intended item. To me, this was just bad programming.

[Death2All]

I think another huge issue with the Planetside switching was that if you accidentally hit the wrong key (something that happened a lot in those frantic firefights), you'd have to sit through the draw and holstering animations for the wrong piece of kit before you could access the intended item. To me, this was just bad programming.

So if you make a mistake you shouldn't be punished?

[Bags]

So if you make a mistake you shouldn't be punished?

D2A, let's be reasonable. Him hitting the wrong key is obviously a programming error.

[CrystalViolet]

So if you make a mistake you shouldn't be punished?

Not the point. Games are supposed to be fun, not frustrating. Interfaces are supposed to be smooth, and intuitive to help the immersion factor in games that mimic actions that are second nature in real life. When a video game takes control away from the user at critical times, it's frustrating and serves no purpose. In most games, those few milliseconds it takes you to realize you hit the wrong key are punishment enough.

[Talek Krell]

If it frustrates you, then don't be so careless. Still, it wouldn't hurt to make it so that you could change your mind mid-switch. Just reverse through the parts of the animation that have played out so far.

I think that the speed of both taking a weapon out and putting it away should be based on weight. So the pistol can be drawn and holstered almost immediately, but switching to a deci is a commitment, and if somebody comes up behind you you'll be stuck fumbling with it for a bit. Same with the sniper rifle. If a cloaker snuck up on you while you were tunnel visioned, then why should you be able to just turn around and pistol whip him while he chews through your rexo?

[Bags]

Not the point. Games are supposed to be fun, not frustrating. Interfaces are supposed to be smooth, and intuitive to help the immersion factor in games that mimic actions that are second nature in real life. When a video game takes control away from the user at critical times, it's frustrating and serves no purpose. In most games, those few milliseconds it takes you to realize you hit the wrong key are punishment enough.

So are you against the stamina system too? If you want immersion you should love the weapon switching system as I can't imagine it'd be too fast to switch those big guns in real life.



I think that the speed of both taking a weapon out and putting it away should be based on weight. So the pistol can be drawn and holstered almost immediately, but switching to a deci is a commitment, and if somebody comes up behind you you'll be stuck fumbling with it for a bit. Same with the sniper rifle. If a cloaker snuck up on you while you were tunnel visioned, then why should you be able to just turn around and pistol whip him while he chews through your rexo?

I'm liking this idea.

[Erendil]

Not the point. Games are supposed to be fun, not frustrating. Interfaces are supposed to be smooth, and intuitive to help the immersion factor in games that mimic actions that are second nature in real life. When a video game takes control away from the user at critical times, it's frustrating and serves no purpose. In most games, those few milliseconds it takes you to realize you hit the wrong key are punishment enough.

Losing those few extra milliseconds is kinda the point. Yes, a smooth, intuitive interface is important (which btw I believe PS1 has for the most part), but to expand upon your assertion that it should "mimic actions that are second nature in real life," in RL it takes time to swap between weapons, and even longer to pull something out of your pack.

In addition, if your finger dexterity fails you it is quite possible that you'll fumble what you're doing and it'd take more time to pull a weapon if it slips from your fingers or you have to readjust your grip on the item. In addition, making PS2 switching faster than it is in PS1 would break some of the immersion for me since it would feel a little too fast I think.

IMO PS1's weapon switch times are pretty good. They're fast but not instant, and there's enough variation between weapon types (HA, AV, MA, Pistols, etc) that the smaller, lighter weapons are given a slight advantage in this regard over the heavier, more powerful ones. Not only does it affect MAX/Softie balance, but MA/HA balance as well since it is faster to pull/switch to MA.

And, since I hope that pistols will actually be dangerous in PS2 at short range, keeping a pistol as a sidearm might actually be useful since pulling one from a holster would probably be faster than reloading your main weapon once you empty your mag.

EDIT: I agree w/ Talek that draw times should be based on weight/mass/bulk. I'm guessing there will probably be a "quick draw" skill for at least some weapons as well.

[Sirisian]

I think that the speed of both taking a weapon out and putting it away should be based on weight. So the pistol can be drawn and holstered almost immediately, but switching to a deci is a commitment, and if somebody comes up behind you you'll be stuck fumbling with it for a bit. Same with the sniper rifle.
That's not really basing things on weight so much as basing the switch times on gameplay which is how it should be done. Not a fan of realism over gameplay. If it makes sense in the gameplay that weapon needs to be holstered slow or fast then so be it. Weight doesn't have to come into the equation.

If a cloaker snuck up on you while you were tunnel visioned, then why should you be able to just turn around and pistol whip him while he chews through your rexo?
Valid gameplay consideration. Should it be a rock paper scissors fight or not? Some would say yes the cloaker should without a doubt always win. Others feel that a sniper should at least have some chance at fighting back. I personally feel it should come down to how a player specializes their class. Having certifications for both the sniper and cloaker to bias the advantage either way. A sniper having a faster switch to pistols cert vs a cloaker with say a melee boost or the combination of the two without the specialization.

[Talek Krell]

That's not really basing things on weight so much as basing the switch times on gameplay

That would have been a better way to say it. In general the more powerful guns seem heavier, but it's the game balance of it that's the important bit.

[Erendil]

That's not really basing things on weight so much as basing the switch times on gameplay which is how it should be done. Not a fan of realism over gameplay. If it makes sense in the gameplay that weapon needs to be holstered slow or fast then so be it. Weight doesn't have to come into the equation.


Valid gameplay consideration. Should it be a rock paper scissors fight or not? Some would say yes the cloaker should without a doubt always win. Others feel that a sniper should at least have some chance at fighting back. I personally feel it should come down to how a player specializes their class. Having certifications for both the sniper and cloaker to bias the advantage either way. A sniper having a faster switch to pistols cert vs a cloaker with say a melee boost or the combination of the two without the specialization.

Well said. Given a choice between gameplay or realism I agree gameplay should win. However, I think mass/bulk should always have an influence as well. It shouldn't be either one or the other.

That said, one of the most annoying things about PS1 infantry combat is that even if you sneak up on someone from behind and catch them totally off-guard, they still have a good chance of killing you if they have a more powerful weapon, even if they have their back to you and their weapon is holstered. Hopefully with the increased lethality of PS2 weapons this will be more of a rarity. IMO in situations like that tactics should have more weight than equipment.

In your sniper/cloaker scenario, I feel the sniper should be given a chance to spin around and get a lucky shot in if his weapon is already out. but if his rifle is holstered and he's sitting there repping/healing or whatever then yeah, the cloaker should slaughter him. ;) And I agree, quick draw/melee booster and other skills should influence the outcome as well.

[NCLynx]

I hope the weapon switching stays relatively the same. What will really piss me off is being in a faster paced game, having the TTK be lower (More kills AND deaths all around) but still seeing "Your rate of deaths has slowed your respawn timer by 5 seconds".

IMO getting killed a lot shouldn't make the spawn timer LONGER it should make it shorter, or be one flat time no longer no shorter and no chance of that changing no matter the amount of deaths.

[CutterJohn]

I'm pretty sure the fact that there are no inventories anymore means you won't be carrying around additional tools/weapons in your pack that can be switched out.

[SavageB]

I'm pretty sure the fact that there are no inventories anymore means you won't be carrying around additional tools/weapons in your pack that can be switched out.

Certainly there will be, but only pertaining to your classification.

[exLupo]

^^^ Modular inventory (BF) vs Hybrid (freeform pack + modular slots) inventory (PS1).

I'm all for weapon equip/unequip speeds being based on how cumbersome the item is. However, I think what you're changing to should be taken into account. Pulling out HA or swapping from HA to AV should be slow. However, swapping from HA to Pistol should be fairly quick but not as quick as MA to Pistol. Maybe the mid-point between the equip speeds when swapping or, if you're just putting a weapon up, half the equip speed.

[Haro]

I think weapon switching should be fluid and vary from weapon to weapon. It makes sense from a realism standpoint, but far more importantly helps balance out gameplay. Something like a missile launcher or heavy assault weapon should take longer to prepare and fire than an assault rifle.

I imagine it would be something like this: knife < pistol < sub-machine gun (if we have one) < shotgun < assault rifle < heavy assault < sniper rifle < Anti-tank. Overall though, I'd like to keep weapon switching fairly quick, certainly faster than PS1 in most cases. So far, everything we've seen points to PS2 to be a faster paced, leaner and meaner game.

[DviddLeff]

They are removing the RPG style inventory aren't they?

Switching between weapon holsters is ok at present, perhaps a little slow but its not a major issue.

[SavageB]

They are removing the RPG style inventory aren't they?

Switching between weapon holsters is ok at present, perhaps a little slow but its not a major issue.

However, it will be a problem in PS2 if the TTK is shorter. They will have to adjust accordingly.