Now that I have played Planetside, I'm not sure PS2 can work.

[Tatwi]

I've played at least 60 hours on NC/VS in Planetside now and I've learned something very, very important:

It takes a lot of people to make the game fun. A lot.

I've played at various points throughout the day, on weekends and weekdays, and it seems that in Planetside there are only ever, at most, three battles happening at the same time. Usually, it's one big battle and a couple little ones here and there. While that is OK and entertaining I've noticed, the battles are really heavily effected by people logging out and that just shouldn't happen in this type of game.

Just as it is with Planetside, 100% of the content in Planetside 2 will be player generated - without people to shoot and be shot by, there won't be anything to do. :( When we factor in the ambitious size and scope of Planetside 2, we're probably looking at somewhere around 25,000 players per server just to keep the game interesting through the peek periods of the week and weekend. This is important, because the deciding factors of victories and losses should be based upon the tactics used rather than the transience of the population. In other words, when one squad member logs off, there should always be someone to fill his place, else the game stagnates for all sides, causing even more people to log off out of boredom.

This issue does not present itself as noticeably in smaller squad based games, like Counter-Strike and even World of Warcraft's Battlegrounds, as each match has a beginning, duration, and end for a set number of people. Folks have been saying for ages that "world pvp" in WoW is dead, and apart from the occasional ganking of a noob, it really is quite dead. People just don't do it (years of personal experience on Malorne and Darkspear PvP servers, Feathermoon RP server). That has to mean something, given 10 million people play the game. That's a lot of people. Anyhow, when the matches require fewer people and have a beginning, middle, and end, PvP seems to be a much more popular pass-time than open ended conflicts.

With this in mind, despite my initial enthusiasm for Planetside and Planetside 2 (I loved Tribes!), I must ask, can this concept of 100% community generated content really sustain the volume of subscribers required to make Planetside 2 work? Fundamentally, I'm not sure that it can and I really don't know what to suggest to make it work any better than PS1 (PS1 is a fun, well rounded game that has a lot to offer, seems to have a good reputation, still looks visually acceptable, yet it has a small population compared to almost any other MMO and has had for most of its run). What do you think? Can it work?

We already know how well Planetside has worked. What did we learn from that experience and how can we use that knowledge to do better the second time around? Or, is it even possible to do better with this concept of a 100% community generated content game? There really isn't, to my knowledge, another MMO like that (especially not EVE, with its PvE and player economy).

[Brusi]

I honestly think the free to play model will eliminate this threat in a way.

People will always get bored and distracted, but as long as there is constant development to lure players back and there are no obstacles stopping these players from returning such as $15 sub, then there will always be enough other people playing to keep it interesting for those returning. Whether they return for just for a day, a month or another whole dirty 3 months without showering or leaving the house, it's all about initiating that lifetime addiction.

Now... constantly having multiple 1000 person battles.... Let me just say that i would be happy with constantly having multiple 100 person battles. We'll see...

[Tatwi]

I honestly think the free to play model will eliminate this threat in a way.

People will always get bored and distracted, but as long as there is constant development to lure players back and there are no obstacles stopping these players from returning such as $15 sub, then there will always be enough other people playing to keep it interesting for those returning. Whether they return for just for a day, a month or another whole dirty 3 months without showering or leaving the house, it's all about initiating that lifetime addiction.

Now... constantly having multiple 1000 person battles.... Let me just say that i would be happy with constantly having multiple 100 person battles. We'll see...

That is insightful and I think you're right about reducing or eliminating the obstacles between a person thinking about playing and actually logging in to play. It might not be hundreds of people logged in all the time, but keeping people logged in most of the time is way more important in Planetside's style of game play than any other MMO, ever. :lol:

[Bags]

I must ask, can this concept of 100% community generated content really sustain the volume of subscribers required to make Planetside 2 work?

It worked back in 2003 before World of Warcraft and micro-transactions became huge, widespread broadband internet and the average computer could handle it.

Why couldn't a sequel work now?

[Raymac]

Quite simply, you should have seen Planetside in 2003. Having enough players was never a problem. Now clearly they didn't sustain those numbers, but Planetside 2 stands to be a much better game because of the lessons learned from the original.

Thats one of the reasons I'm so excited for Planetside 2. I remember how epic it was back in the early days, and imagining that plus more is why I'm looking forward to this game. You're absolutely right that the game needs alot of players, but it can do that easy.

[Huma]

Man back in the day the brawls were huge and you had atleast 2 pop locked fights and 2 skirmishes going on off peak hours. The game your playing now is a ghost town compared to what it once was. Just wait man, this game is like the field of dreams. Once it's built they will come and we'll all reap a bloody harvest of death and destruction on an epic scale. Daddy likey!

[Haro]

Yeah, even in the later days of 2005 or 2006, planetside reserves managed to keep things fairly interesting. If they go for a basic f2p package right from the beginning, I think the game could do pretty well at the very least. Like others have said before, the games core concept managed to attract a pretty solid population all the way back in 2003, with some fairly broken gameplay elements and technology that couldn't just keep up. If PS2 manages to get off to a better start (and it's hard for it not to) then the game can probably go even further.

[Valdae]

PS1 came out when I was supposed to be studying for my school exams. Every time I played it I never wanted to leave because there was always a new battle going on somewhere else to be part of!

I imagine PS2 will be like this for a while, but if I remember correctly SOE will be dictating certain territories to take anyway. They've also promised less downtime in between battles. All in all what I'm saying is even if their are fewer people, there should still be a good battle or two to fight in!

[Sirisian]

I was reading this thread like "An MMOFPS like they've described can't exist. Have you ever played an MMOFPS that lasted for more than a year?"

I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment. A game like Planetside is impossible. I don't even know why they're trying.

[Graywolves]

Planetside rolled strong from atleast 03'-06' on a subscription business model shortly before MMO's became popular/well-known and while Gaming in general was climbing over the negative stigmatisms.


Even if they went with their original plan of just brushing up PS1, I think it would've been successful. As long as a commercial or two make it out before launch or something I don't see any way of this failing.



Unless someone screws something up >_>

[Brusi]

Planetside was successful for the Epic Battles!

It's pretty hard to say that PS now is better or more fun than other games on the market as there are a LOT of quality multiplayer games around now. It's a so so game that some die-hard fans still play, and has been more and more fun of late due to 45 days free players and hype around PS2 bringing some back.

However, "Planetside back in the day"™ is still a more amazing and memorable experience than what people are playing now, perhaps even any game since!

If they can pull off the next break-through in the MMOFPS genre and then keep the server populations reasonably high, i think it has the potential to be very, very successful for a long time.

Remember, all they need is for 18% of those players to make micro-transaction purchases and Smed is rolling in hookers and coke.

[Graywolves]

Remember, all they need is for 18% of those players to make micro-transaction purchases and Smed is rolling in hookers and coke.

I love Coke! I drink it all the time!

[SgtMAD]

PlanetSide at release wasn't anything like you could have experienced in your 60 hours playing.

there will be plenty of ppl at release,the problem is getting them to all stay subbed after the fourth month.

PS had two east coast and two west coast servers,if they cut that down to one server for each coast you will see a huge population,which is what the game needs.

Planetside '03/'04 was nothing like you could have seen in the last two years.

[2coolforu]

Planetside never had any problems with pop until it was totally killed by bad patching, and that was during a time when broadband + good computers were pretty rare. I mean we have like 2 billion people on the internet and gaming is far more mainstream now than it was in 2003, there are so many more players that I can easily see Planetside 2 being relatively unsuccessful for a mainstream FPs and still netting 2-3 times the population of peak Planetside 1.

Even then during all-nighters on Planetside 1 on Werner when pops could drop down into double figures almost it was still fun. What makes Planetside unfun now is the prevelance of one-many army BR40 all-certs as it means that anyone can do anything and when you have less people the one-man-army aspect becomes all the more obvious as people stop voluntary teamwork and just switch to 'One Man Army' mode.

[basti]

60 hours? Dude, you have no clue what planetside is yet.
Post again once you started understanding what you are talking about, but you wont ever, because you have never seen the way the game was intended to be: 3 or more pop locks.

[Firefly]

60 hours? Dude, you have no clue what planetside is yet.

This. Find yourself a position in your computer chair on Sunday afternoon EST and start playing. By the end of the night you'll see a poplock and more massive fights than you find in the least-gay 64-person e-sports twitch shooter.

And that, my friend, will scratch the surface. It will be about four percent of what Planetside was in its heyday.

Planetside 2 is going to kill everything else.

[Malorn]

1) You are looking at the decrepit and decayed hollow shell of Planetside. Making any conclusions whatsoever on PS2 based on the current state of PS1 is neither fair nor accurate.

2) A whole 60 hours? I think I've put in at least 6000 hours into Planetside, back when it had a strong population. The design and ideas of PS1 far exceeded its time and there was nothing else like it. There were a variety of reasons why it didn't succeed as well as we might have hoped, but make no mistake - not only can PS2 succeed, but it can make the MMO-FPS genre breakout.

3) You did make a great observation about population being important to the game. It is a player-driven game, but it is far from the first. I would stress that this is even moreso why improving the pacing of the game is vital and F2P elements absolutely critical. Those free players will keep the game alive and with energy, just as the "fodderside" program did around 2005 or so, only it would be more prominent and do so right from the beginning.

[Hamma]

1) You are looking at the decrepit and decayed hollow shell of Planetside. Making any conclusions whatsoever on PS2 based on the current state of PS1 is neither fair nor accurate.

This.

Another key point is this is a totally different time in gaming. It's more main stream and far more people have access to online gaming than they did back then. Add into that the free component that they have talked about and there is some massive potential here for a HUGE game if it's done right.

Technology has come a long way, comparing PlanetSide today almost 10 years later to PlanetSide 2 in terms of population is really apples and oranges.

[kamikava]

I had a dream about planetside 2 last night. The tanks were made of lego and the sniper rifle had burst fire.

It was awesome.

And that was only beta.

[KinSlayer]

I figure they'll have East/West Coast servers again which means a as prime time dies down on the East Coast I get to switch to the West Coast and catch a few more hours of prime time!

[Tatwi]

I had a dream about planetside 2 last night. The tanks were made of lego and the sniper rifle had burst fire.

It was awesome.

And that was only beta.

Lol... I can picture a tank blowing to pieces a few blocks at a time, with whole blocks pinging and whizzing off in all directions! PhysX FTW. :) Lego rocks! (Lego Universe went free to play this week btw).

Well, thank you guys for your assessments. You've brought up some good points, like how gaming is more mainstream now, the age of PS1, the one-man all certs, and the free to play model. It's reassuring, because PS1 is such a fun game! I'm kind of sad that I never tried it way back when I had a station pass in 2004-2005, but I was into other things. It is what it is. :)

I really hope that SOE uses Sony's resources to their advantage with Planetside 2, because the opportunities for merchandising, co-advertisement, and promotions (like trailers on Sony Pictures films) are there to be capitalized upon. The one thing PS2 needs more than anything else is people, lots and lots of people. It's scarey to let so much success rest on the fickle, transient nature of gamers who apparently don't have a lot time to play games any more (http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/gaming.gadgets/08/17/finishing.videogames.snow/).

[basti]

I figure they'll have East/West Coast servers again which means a as prime time dies down on the East Coast I get to switch to the West Coast and catch a few more hours of prime time!

I would actually suggest to only have central servers. This way your guys prime time is longer on the servers.
Same with europe. No german/french/whatever servers, just all central in europe and english, with only the client in different languages. Longer prime time on the servers is better than switching. ;-)
World server would be best, but that wont happen to release.

[vampyro]

The only way PS2 fails is lack of advertising. Sony is pretty bad at advertising their games. Do they want to make this into a flagship name? That remains to be seen. It would make sense if they did.

[Talek Krell]

I think they'd be wise to. It's an open, almost untapped market in which they probably have more in house experience than anyone else, and an existing playerbase to kickstart the game with.

[Mezorin]

I had a dream about planetside 2 last night. The tanks were made of lego and the sniper rifle had burst fire.

It was awesome.

And that was only beta.

Holy shit that was freaky, *I* had a PS2 dream last night too. I was fighting on the VS side, and they had a 5 man hovering infantry fighting vehicle along side the mag riders. Crazy indoor fights, crazy outdoor fights, but I was a poor newbie with just an assault rifle and back up handgun though :( .

[Graywolves]

I had a dream where Higby kidnapped my friend and I.

It was like Saw.

[Haro]

I remember when I was telling friends about how I loved planetside and I thought they should play. They started giving me strange looks as soon as I said "subscription." Now, millions of people pay for Xbox Live or World of Warcraft, and now there are a lot of f2p games coming out. Times have changed a lot, and things are much more encouraging for a game like Planetside. Also, remember the planetside you are playing is around 8 years old. I consider the fact that the game still has players to be a testament to how well it could work. Not many games have that kind of record, especially not shooters.

[Krowe]

60 hours? Dude, you have no clue what planetside is yet.
Post again once you started understanding what you are talking about, but you wont ever, because you have never seen the way the game was intended to be: 3 or more pop locks.

This.

Believe it or not, the population level changes in online video games. Its not some static number on a list.

[Kouza]

Planetside one now is an acquired taste... Back in the day.... It was awesome, when you had those people.

[Lonehunter]

The game your playing now is a ghost town compared to what it once was.
Exactly

[PSxCarebear]

I'm certainly hoping that the statements Smed made about eventually reducing it down to one server with multiple planets and such a huge pop come true.. That would be glorious.

[Heaven]

Another reason for a lot of people leaving was hackers! If SOE work on keeping the hackers at bay, then the game wont be ruined by pussy ass players that have to cheat to get kills. I got sick of hackers plus my computer died, that's the reason I don't play now.

[Crator]

Advertising, advertising, advertising... PS1 had none. I found out about PS1 from a fellow gamer friend and was hooked the 1st time I logged into open beta. The massive scale (pop) was what gave me goose-bumps, even thinking about it now.

[HawkEye]

SOE just needs to advertise PS2 and it will be fine. They basically did no advertising for PS1.

[Hamma]

They advertised PS1 early on.

When they failed, they stopped advertising. :lol:

[kubacheski]

Heh, 60 hours of playing back in 2003-4 was about 3 1/4 real life days for most. My friends and I couldnt get enough of the large zergfests that were going on in multiple places. Sometimes one zerg would get so huge you'd lag and be sort-of "forced" to switch to another one. And that's just the zergs, you'd be able to get into large medium and small fights every time you got on for a couple of years.

After the core combat expansion and getting married I stopped playing, but have subbed up every once in a while and it's never been like the glory days. The 45 day free sub after the hacking incident was pretty fun with pops going up again. Even then tho, you either were running around with BR40's who have all the certs or newbs who don't have enough. Teamwork is kinda gone as everyone has their own one man army.

I'm kinda curious what BR you got to in 60 hours.....I'd bet that you never had the opportunity to fly over a heavily contested base in your mossie, bail out and cloak, make for the equipment terminal in the spawn room full of enemies, hack the console, switch to your max and unload as much as you can on the little smurfs or barnies running around.

It's a little different to jump into the game this late as the teamwork and bond formed when you got with an outfit of lowbies who you helped and groomed and learned your tactics with. Everyone had their spot, HA, MA, AA, MAX, Pilot, Medic, Engineer, etc. and you worked together to get stuff done. Now most people have the ability to do at least 6 of these things if not all. It's just not the same. Get 10 of your friends to jump on with you and work together as a squad as you advance in BR/CR and see if your perception is different.

Teamwork and those dang endless bridge battles made this game F-U-N!

[Tatwi]

I'm kinda curious what BR you got to in 60 hours.....I'd bet that you never had the opportunity to fly over a heavily contested base in your mossie, bail out and cloak, make for the equipment terminal in the spawn room full of enemies, hack the console, switch to your max and unload as much as you can on the little smurfs or barnies running around.

Personally, that style of game play isn't my cup of tea.

I always liked building things in Tribes, healing in WoW, and crafting/beast master in SWG, so I spent a lot of time fixing/healing things in PS1. Trying to help keep maxes closer to the battle, keeping turrets up (and occupied), repairing tanks and planes, etc. Manning a gun in a vehicle is fun too, but I'm not really keen on piloting. I make a great target in a mosquito. I much prefer driving and ATV. :) I decided to try and focus on getting better with just the Pulsar/Punisher in base battles, while making an effort to stick with a group and heal/rez. Often I was the guy in a base assault to look around at all the people standing at the door and said, "fuck it - I'll go in first if none of you are willing!" and off I went, group in tow. lol... Positive KD ratio? What's that?

Last night I was the guy who said, "gotta get up on that ridge with the snipers..." *runs through the open field up the hill and then decides to zoom in for a better view* "Oh. Well, may as well stop running... those are enemy snipers!". Yeah, some times I should go to bed when I am tired. :sniper::rofl: And, I did! :lol:

In all, I am just shy of BR12 on my VS and made BR5 on my first toon in NC. Not a lot of XP in "healing", but that's OK, because I'm having fun with the certs that I have (Need more Engineering!).

"Teamwork and those dang endless bridge battles made this game F-U-N!". Teamwork yes, but stalemates, no. I'd rather lose a battle than to get no where at all for whole the 4 hours I'm logged in. Stalemates get boring at about the 2 hour mark.

[Kouza]

They advertised PS1 early on.

When they failed, they stopped advertising. :lol:

I started playing PS1, After I saw a exert in a Gaming Magazine, and saw a thing on G4TV about it. (brief thing on G4TV)

[zuesrocks]

I'm certainly hoping that the statements Smed made about eventually reducing it down to one server with multiple planets and such a huge pop come true.. That would be glorious.

no

[WarChimp130]

Almost 15K people already like this game on FB. This not only before Beta has even been announced, this is based off of one trailer and some screen shots. By the time the game progresses, goes through Beta, more info comes out, gets more publicity in the main gaming mags and sites, those numbers should easily double.

By the time the game gets close to launch, if SOE properly advertises the game and gets people excited about it those numbers could easily double again. The population at launch will not be a problem. Now how that pop sustains will depend on how good the game is, but I believe that as the hype builds we will have a huge population to start, easily enough to fill a couple servers.

Currently a few hundred people can make for an interesting battle in PS1, we are going to see WAY more people than that involved when PS2 launches. It may even feel like too much at first.

[Mastachief]

If they dont have 100,000 people at launch i'll be disappointed

[MasterChief096]

If they dont have 100,000 people at launch i'll be disappointed

I propose we duel for our names in PlanetSide 2 good sir. See you in in-game, if you dare! :D

@Tatwi - Make sure you watch the video at the bottom of my text.

Man, 60 hours in this sad husk of the glory that was once PlanetSide?

When the game launched there were so many players that when we got zerged into a biolab there were like 15 medics sitting in the medical room waiting for people/maxes to run in there to get healed while the HA/MA grunts defended the entrances.

I watched 20-30 vanguards roll over hills as 20-30 reavers flew close air support in tangent with 5 or so galaxies getting ready to drop off their cargo which happened to be upwards of 50 infantry with combined MAX support, and sometimes light vehicles in the back cargo area.

Tatwi you need to watch this video. Its just ONE outfit that existed in PlanetSide amongst HUNDREDS, look how large of a force they contained as just a SINGLE outfit.

Sturmgrenadier Planetside Video - YouTube

For a good look at their airborne contingent, make sure you watch until around 1:47

[Mastachief]

I propose we duel for our names in PlanetSide 2 good sir. See you in in-game, if you dare! :D



LOL, i'm sure we will be fine. Note the 'a' :) plus i'll be playing Europe naturally.

It will be interesting how the names thing is handled though

[Malorn]

Enclave made a funny parody of that Sturmgrenadier vid, at least the beginning.

The Enclave TR Recruitment Video - YouTube

They were a large outfit also, bigger as NC I believe but not uncommon to see 3 full gal drops on any location in a continent.

[Infektion]

This game will work, and I justify it with blind faith, just like any other person with religious views :). But anyways, I hardly believe that wow ever had this "PVP" you speak of. lol, Asheron's Call has some real PK shiiiiit yo.


:evil::evil:"STFU or go RED!":evil::evil:

[Graywolves]

This game will work, and I justify it with blind faith, just like any other person with religious views :). But anyways, I hardly believe that wow ever had this "PVP" you speak of. lol, Asheron's Call has some real PK shiiiiit yo.


:evil::evil:"STFU or go RED!":evil::evil:

If it's not red, it's dead.

[MasterChief096]

Enclave made a funny parody of that Sturmgrenadier vid, at least the beginning.

The Enclave TR Recruitment Video - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftucYis9Au0)

They were a large outfit also, bigger as NC I believe but not uncommon to see 3 full gal drops on any location in a continent.

Woot, glad to see that this video got re-uploaded. I went to look for it like 6 months ago and it wasn't there. Tragic, tragic day.

[Redshift]

You missed the party by 8 years mate, ofc there's fuck all going on now,

[Tatwi]

You missed the party by 8 years mate, ofc there's fuck all going on now,

That's not the point.

Planetside stands alone as a 100% player generated content MMO. Even the other PvP oriented MMOs out now and on the horizon have PvE aspects to them. Planetside 2 will not have any PvE (and it shouldn't). Can it work? Can it last?

I guess we will find out in the next few years.

Planetside 2 is a huge risk for SOE to take. No other game depends so heavily on fostering a co-operative, inclusive player base that encourages player retention. WoW is 7 years old and still going strong with 10 million players. Planetside has perhaps 5,000 players and it's only 8 years old. Heck, EQ1 likely has more players than Planetside. Age is the least important factor to consider here. Compelling, rewarding game play that does not get dull and is not full of cheaters are the most important things Planetside 2 needs to deliver upon. Otherwise it's just going to end up being as successful as Planetside - not awful by any means, but a very niche market game.

[Bags]

PS didn't die due to its concept, it died due to piss poor developmental choices and SOE not giving a damn.

As long as they don't leave PS2 to rot it will work fine.

[p0intman]

Planetside -The Enclave, Back In The Day - YouTube
ap0ck :: Final :: Planetside - YouTube

KAAOS Planetside 1 - YouTube
Back in the day...

[Tatwi]

Back in the day...

Back in the now,

www.mmo-champion.com/

Like Bags said, as long as SOE doesn't leave PS2 to rot it, 7 years later it could also have fan site that billows forth update after update, video after video, etc. every single week with no end in sight.

[MasterChief096]

Tatwi I don't think you're fully realizing the drastic difference between the "now" PlanetSide and the "then PlanetSide. The two are almost different games. The concept is not what was wrong with PS, it was as Bags said, the development choices and the abandonment (for lack of a better word) of the game. PS2 can easily work without horrid development choices.

[Tatwi]

Tatwi I don't think you're fully realizing the drastic difference between the "now" PlanetSide and the "then PlanetSide. The two are almost different games. The concept is not what was wrong with PS, it was as Bags said, the development choices and the abandonment (for lack of a better word) of the game. PS2 can easily work without horrid development choices.

I hope so. I really do. It's such a cool concept.

[Raymac]

Yeah, Tatwi, I don't want it to feel like I'm piling on here, but 8 years is an eternity in terms of MMOs. It's like looking back at the Wright Brothers' plane and saying the Boeing 787 Dreamliner isn't going to work. Planetside is pre-WoW, which really tells you everything you need to know right there.

It's a new world, so if Planetside 1 survived (barely) for 8 years, hell Planetside 2 is going to live FOREVER.

[Crator]

No hoping necessary. SOE did not support PS1 very well after launch. Hardly any advertising for it either.

[Graywolves]

Even if only the players playing PS right now went to PS2 it would be successful enough to be fun.

[Krowe]

Even if only the players playing PS right now went to PS2 it would be successful enough to be fun.

Depends. i'm not sure if I'm the only one who is running out of time on the 45 days free thing. :p

[Graywolves]

Depends. i'm not sure if I'm the only one who is running out of time on the 45 days free thing. :p

I'm at 40

[Redshift]

LOL, i'm sure we will be fine. Note the 'a' :) plus i'll be playing Europe naturally.

It will be interesting how the names thing is handled though

Hopefully they'll just reserve the names of all BR25+ chars currently on gemini

[Crator]

So if they do retain PS1 player name how will that work? Associate PS2 key to your existing account, log in to PS2, create new character and you are presented with list of names from your previous PS1 characters on that account?

[Redshift]

So if they do retain PS1 player name how will that work? Associate PS2 key to your existing account, log in to PS2, create new character and you are presented with list of names from your previous PS1 characters on that account?

We all station passes, all ourPS1 accounts are linked to our PS2 accounts already,
My guess is they'll say names are reserved for 1 month, meaning all vets will buy from day 1 to keep their names,