To all the new guys

[Huma]

I know you think all of us PS1 vets are just crusty old farts that are afraid of change. But you have to look at it from our perspective. A lot of us have been playing this game for about 8 years. We've seen it's up and downs and everything between. We've also played the same FPS games you as well. So we have a unique perspective on what works and doesnt work.
We're by no means all knowing but we do have a very good idea how something will affect the style of gameplay offered by PS. So bear that in mind when we go off on ideas that are perceive as detracting from game play or creating balancing issues. We know we aren't the devs but after years of seesaw balancing and content pushes we're all pretty good at recognizing problems.
That being said keep the ideas coming. :)

[Raymac]

And stay off my lawn ;)

[Graywolves]

Young whippersnappers, thinking they know everything, they don't even know what a real war on Auraxis looks like! Back in my day we faught in one location for half a day and it was amazing and fun!

These youngins don't even know what a MAX crash looks like!

[Huma]

Young whippersnappers, thinking they know everything, they don't even know what a real war on Auraxis looks like! Back in my day we faught in one location for half a day and it was amazing and fun!

These youngins don't even know what a MAX crash looks like!

Up hill both ways in 6 feet of snow with no boots!

[FIREk]

I've played PS1 for years back when it was good. I remember playing until late night, when pops weren't high enough to sustain a battle around a single base. I remember massive battles, massive forces mobilizing in sanctuaries, queues in warpgates before BWGs were invented... I remember a lot of awesome stuff from back when PS1 wasn't falling apart.
Unfortunately, the gameplay mechanics were poor back then and have aged even worse. The game is barely playable by today's standards.
I would rather see revolutionary, or just plain modern ideas, rather than cling to prehistoric design as if it was a good thing.

As much as I like the humorous comments in this thread, I've seen so much fear of change on these forums, it stopped being funny a while ago. A lot of it seems more akin to desperation - clinging to what is known, and shunning the new.
It's like there's this group of people who know the ins and outs of PS1 and seem skilled in that game, but, deep inside, fear that, when they lose the edge that comes from experience and repetition, they won't be able to adapt to something new, due to a lack of actual skill.
No one in particular, of course, since I haven't been around here to get a good idea of who is who. ;)
Anyway, I hope I'm wrong, but that's the impression I get every time I see someone defending blatantly aged and obsolete gameplay elements, which have been phased out of subsequent games, one generation at a time, for a reason.

A quick-draw knife isn't a bad thing, as long as the damage is balanced for large-scale combat. Same thing goes for headshots and faster TTK.
Instantly embarking/disembarking vehicles, for instance, is a bad idea, but it's because of the different scale of PS2, and a higher value of vehicles, since they won't just respawn in 30 seconds, 100 meters from where it was just blown up.
Bottom line, just because something (barely) "worked in PS1" doesn't mean it won't be 100 times more exciting if it were made differently.

Ideally, PS2 will have modern gameplay and pacing practically ripped off from Battlefield: Bad Company 2 (and BF3 perhaps), combined with core elements (but not mechanics) of PS1.
I trust that SOE will integrate into PS2 the best qualities that made PS1 so epic. Gameplay mechanics were not among them.

[zuesrocks]

And stay off my lawn ;)

lol

[Sirisian]

Don't worry not all of us old vets are resistant to change. :lol:

[FIREk]

Don't worry not all of us old vets are resistant to change. :lol:

Do I count as a vet if I'm retired? :P

[Huma]

I would say that I'm not so much as resistant to change as I am to things that take away from what made PS so great. For me the best part of PS is how much teamwork plays into doing well in the game. Hence why I'm against things that detract from teamplay. As for stuff like quick knifing I'm against it only because of how ridiculos it can get. There are elements of modern FPS games that are great but there is a lot that leads to some really lame gameplay.

[Logit]

It's hard to compare Planetside to other modern FPSs, at least for me it is. A lot of the things that do well in 64 person battles probably won't work when there are 3000 people. Such as head shots and quick knives.

If you can't see how it's going to be a problem simply because of the scale of the game, than there probably isn't much else I can say to convince you.

[NewSith]

Well, "adapt and overcome" it says, doesn't it?

[FIREk]

I've played Modern Warfare for a while and was hooked on Bad Company 2 for may a month, and I can assure you of two things:
1) whether or not someone is a team player is 100% down to the player himself/herself; teamplay can't be forced (PS1 is a perfect example, with all the killhoes and soloers you can find) and, if you spend some time playing any objective-based game, you will see that people with a penchant for teamplay will play as a team - it is its own reward :) ,
2) a quick-draw knife, even if it's one-stab-one-kill with a 2-meter lunge, will only be used as a last resort, or for humiliation, never as a main weapon; bullets, in any game, are always more convenient. :)

Most importantly, though, the modern-ness of current FPS games is there as a result of evolution. No all of it will fit a massive FPS game, but when I look back to when I played PlanetSide, I can't imagine how I could have found that gameplay enjoyable, especially the slow weapon switching... :)
On the other hand, games like Unreal Tournament 3 haven't evolved much and I don't look back at playing Quake 2 CTF with the same kind of surprise. Except for being able to play on a modem with a 300ms+ ping and what I think was absolutely no client-side hit detection. ;)

[FIREk]

If you can't see how it's going to be a problem simply because of the scale of the game, than there probably isn't much else I can say to convince you.

I kinda did. In my original post... Have you ever played a game with headshots and quick-draw knives, or have you only heard about them somewhere?

[Raymac]

To be fair, none of us really know what new features will be like in PS2. We have PS1 as a reference, but PS2 is it's own game. Every aspect of the game from leveling up, to map size, to bullet damage, to classes, to graphic quality...everything is really an unknown when so many things will be different.

I think it's good that vets offer their opinion on what we know, but we arn't a monolithic group. I don't know if there is 1 thing we've all agreed on except that we are excited to see PS2. Also, I think the devs are smart enough not to take what we say here as gospel. They'll know that it's how we see things from our point of view, and as the great Ben Kenobi said, "Many of the truthes we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

[NewSith]

I don't know if there is 1 thing we've all agreed on except that we are excited to see PS2.

Oh, we did. We all agreed on who is a new incarnation of the Hair God.

[Talek Krell]

2) a quick-draw knife, even if it's one-stab-one-kill with a 2-meter lunge, will only be used as a last resort, or for humiliation, never as a main weapon;

What about that loadout that you could get in one of the CoDs? Something about a "commando perk" and some other stuff making knifing super effective (can you tell I never played CoD? :p)? Even in Bad company 2 it's a little crazy sometimes.

[CrystalViolet]

I played PS since the beginning though I'm new to these forums. I have to agree with Firek that Planetside is essentially an outdated game from a less refined generation. The trap that I think many here fall into is thinking about how a new system would effect the old game, rather than trying to figure out how it can be successfully implemented into something with new gameplay dynamics. I have a feeling that functionally, Planetside 2 will be more of a re imagining than a sequel.

[Elude]

I was never there at launch but I played PS for at least 2 years, I wouldn't exactly call myself a vet but I would call myself a huge fan of the game. I was incredibly giggity when I heard the sequel was going to be made but didn't believe it until I eventually saw the trailer a year later lol.

I'm all up for change though so long as it doesn't trade out the two things that I enjoyed and I'm pretty sure everyone else enjoyed about the game that made it unique, one being the large scale battles of 100s of players seamlessly competing against eachother, and the other being that the three factions were very different from another.

Both of which seem to already be in PS2 so my worries are a little less then that of most peoples.

I'm not afraid of most other changes although there are a few such as quick knifing that I would rather not see, truth be told I'd rather the knife leave completely, and instead add something like weapon bashing which is not seen in too many games today.

Another is mechs, there isn't something a mech can do that a wheeled vehicle can't do except jump, and strafe. They fill no unique role and they ultimately end up filling an already filled slot by a wheeled vehicle, whether it's a jumping/strafing harasser equivalent or a jumping/strafing vanguard equivalent. Call of duty failed in this aspect by having weapons fill other weapon roles, leaving the slightly weaker weapons of that role at the bottom, and never being used again.

[Graywolves]

Alot of us aren't paranoid of change, it's that we know that there's no other Planetside is different and on a massive scale far exceeding that of any other FPS.

Even with long TTK's in current planetside, you can die very fast.

Even some people that have played forget that. CoD would be retarded on Planetside's scale. Just as an example.

[FIREk]

What about that loadout that you could get in one of the CoDs? Something about a "commando perk" and some other stuff making knifing super effective (can you tell I never played CoD? :p)? Even in Bad company 2 it's a little crazy sometimes.

Back when I played MW1, everyone had Martyr, Last Stand, more grenades (to throw randomly after respawning) and some statistical advantage buffs. It may just be me, or the servers I played on, but I have never seen someone use the knife as a main weapon, regardless of how exploitable it might be. :)


I'm sure PS2 will have all the key bases covered (large scale, persistent gameplay, teamwork-oriented tools like huge 40-person platoons, three very different factions). The rest is just icing on the cake. I just hope the icing will be fresh, rather than expired since 2003. ;)

Also, weapon bashing sounds pretty nice. I'm very much in favor of quick-draw knives that don't insta-gib, but deal a set amount of damage. A rifle butt will do that just as well, only that it needs to do as much damage as around two bullets (I'm assuming around 25-40% health), which makes more sense with a knife. ;)
Also, a knife that insta-kills on a headshot or in the back rewards cunning, skill and cloakers, unless the later exploit the possibility. ;) A rifle butt or pistol grip would prooobably not fit the bill. :P

As for TTKs, don't get me wrong - BFBC2's TTK is perfect, and I hope this is where SOE is aiming for in PS2. I don't think anyone here wants retarded Modern Warfare "hardcore mode" (or, as I call it, "lamecore mode") insta-gib BB guns. ;)

[Talek Krell]

Also, a knife that insta-kills on a headshot or in the back rewards cunning, skill and cloakers, unless the later exploit the possibility. ;)

As long as it never really makes more sense to knife someone in the face when you could just shoot them, I don't mind what sort of melee weapon they use. I was actually rather fond of the BC2 knife. Which is odd because I have no idea exactly how it worked. I swear there were at least two or three times where I actually parried with the thing. Somebody would charge me and I'd knife just after they did. Half a second later I have new dog tags and they're complaining in chat. :rolleyes:

[Elude]

Somebody would charge me and I'd knife just after they did. Half a second later I have new dog tags and they're complaining in chat. :rolleyes:

Of course they were complaining, they lost control of their character thanks to the horrible implementation of auto aim for melee, again another reason why COD knives are retarded. EA just had to take the second worst feature about it and put it in their game.

[Talek Krell]

How does the autoaim work? You mean the thing that forces you to keep looking at a person while you knife them?

[FIREk]

True dat... Auto-aim knives and lunging are quite dumb... I suppose it makes the implementation easier, or something, but I definitely don't want that coming to our dream-come-true game, ever... The knife should work during sprinting (it is a last-ditch weapon, after all), but not teleport you to your enemy, and auto-hit them on demand.

[Sentrosi]

Count me as one of the grizzled Planetside vets who are not afraid of change. When someone posts an idea I read about it and rationalize it thinking about the 'new' battlefield of PS2.

Your new idea has to answer a few questions.
1. What does it bring to the battlefield?
2. Is there already a way to accomplish this?
3. What potential griefing/exploits could come of this idea?
4. How can this benefit team play?

[CutterJohn]

So we have a unique perspective on what works and doesnt work.

You have a perspective of how things work, in PS. When pooing a bad idea, you take said idea, place it in the context of how PS1 works with absolutely no other changes or mitigating factors. Unsurprisingly, this does make ideas sound bad.

[321]

I'm not sure why you created this thread. This forum supports private messaging, so you could have just sent it to Sirisian directly.

[Bags]

I'm not "afraid" of change because new shooters are "harder". I'm "afraid" of change because I play Planetside instead of "lolrealism" shooters for a reason - I don't like modern FPS as much.

Though I do realize that it is necessary.

[Grimster]

I'm not sure why you created this thread. This forum supports private messaging, so you could have just sent it to Sirisian directly.


LOL :)

[Baneblade]

Well considering the track record of 'Change', you can't blame anyone for being opposed to it.

[Grimster]

Well to be serious for a moment it lies within human nature to be afraid of changes. :)

So basically it is a natural behavior. Not saying you should be just explaining why it might be so common. :)

[DviddLeff]

Too many people are resistant for change, even when it will make the game faster (removal of sancs, inventory system, squad spawning), more roles useful (class system) or make the game more skill and tactics based (head shots, lower TTK, quick knife).

[MasterChief096]

Too many people are resistant for change, even when it will make the game faster (removal of sancs, inventory system, squad spawning), more roles useful (class system) or make the game more skill and tactics based (head shots, lower TTK, quick knife).

The problem is that change for the sake of change isn't necessary at all.
Everything you mentioned up there doesn't need to be removed.

Sanctuaries can be made optional. They can be made so that you don't log in there if you don't want to, you don't ever go there if you don't want to, but its there for the people who find a use for it (primarily very large outfits that want to mobilize somewhere where nothing is happening). Removing it is just plain unnecessary, as it can have its uses.

Inventories add to character customization and this is an MMO after all. I liked how in PlanetSide my inventory load outs were for the most part unique to myself, and I could make different "roles" within roles so to speak by tweaking my inventory load outs.

IMO head-shots, lower-TTK, and quick-knife does not make the game more "skill" and "tactics". Quite the opposite actually. People took a few rounds to die in PlanetSide, you had to plan what your outfit had and what it could effectively counter if you wanted to be successful in whatever you were doing. Now that's going to matter less, but I digress, I'm not going to petition SOE to change the direction their heading in if its going to get the game made after all.

And to whoever is saying the Battlefield pacing is perfect, completely wrong. Lets see how you feel about Battlefield lethality and pacing when there are 100-200 infantry engaged in a forest fight... yeah no. The lethality has to be slightly lower than BF. IMO right in the middle of PlanetSide 1 and BF would be decent. Imagine being able to drop a full health rexo in PlanetSide with about five guass shots for instance, instead of 10, seven shots if the guy medkits. That would be a pretty decent TTK.

I get tired of people saying PlanetSide had dated ideas and mechanics. From my point of view the JEDI ARE EVI--- *ahem* oops I meant from my point of view PlanetSide's mechanics are superior to modern FPS games. TBH, I think that PlanetSide is more modern than modern FPSes... lol, at least coming from an MMOFPS point of view. In an MMOFPS that has a persistent world, things need to be slightly slower than a match list FPS. Granted they should do everything they can to make sure its not too too slow, but its an MMOFPS, not FPS, you can't expect the pacing to be as fast as regular match-making FPS games for instance. Sacrifices will have to be made in pacing to account for a persistent world that you can actually effect and have a real impact on.

Just my two cents. I've played PS since the beginning and have also played EVERY one of these "modern" FPS games you guys speak of, and I think PlanetSide is still light years ahead of what those games could accomplish if they had some sort of "MMOFPS" form to them.

[Graywolves]

Saying headshots encourages skill is like saying giving someone a Jackhammer and third person so they could jump you and your buddy does the same.

Aiming isn't skill, it's a basic mechanic of all FPS games. Point and click.(speaking of infantry med-cqc situations. I'm fine with Sniper headshots.)

Look, all you new guys are missing the point. We know what's best for you and we're sending you to college, not some trade school. Now think of a nice college!


--edit--
Also, I remember reading this one article on online gaming and with these different techniques of some bullshit I don't feel like getting in to. But CoD and Battlefield are like bags of potato chips, you go in a match, you like it, you do another match, and another, and then you realize you ate my entire bag of chips, wtf bro?

Planetside isn't a bag of chips, it's like a full course meal with steak, lots of steak, and ice cream and donuts, and barneys and blueberries and a cherry on top. And some lettuce because our girlfriends, wives, and mom's get mad when we don't have fiber in our diet or something, idk.

But you don't eat potato cheaps with this kind of meal, that's just awkward and gets you removed from the table.

[p0intman]

Class setups ala cod and bf are fucking stupid on a planetside-level scale. thats all im saying, some of these new guys are fucking retarded.

[Crator]

Aiming does not take skill. That's a new one. Not sure what's considered skill if aiming is not one of them.

[Baron]

I've played PS1 for the same...8 years, and while I'm not necessarily resistant to change I am very skeptical. That's just me I guess ...old grumpy cynic :p

[Sirisian]

Aiming does not take skill. That's a new one. Not sure what's considered skill if aiming is not one of them.
They might be referring to tactical skills. That is learning how to deal with certain gameplay situations. For instance, seeing a max and knowing to pull back and equip your decimator and not to charge a max with it. Or how to use a vehicle in order to not get killed. Learned tactical skill rather than muscle memory.

A good example of a game that pushed tactical skills (with groups or alone) was the game America's Army. It was rarely a matter of who was better at aiming in that game and focused more on how to deal with certain situations. Picking your battles kind of thinking.

[SgtMAD]

I am not scared of "change",its the stupid threads and ideas i see on these forums on a regular basis that disturbs me because I used to see the same type of silly crap on the old PS forums,what I am afraid of is that someone will notice these stupid ideas and incorporate some of them in the game.

this is what led to the bailing animation,the idea that tank rounds shouldn't be able to kill ppl.

I have to laugh at the ppl that want to speed up game place because we once had fast paced game play and it got nerfed because ppl started stupid threads about how surgile was cheating,that being able to quick swap inventory items got nerfed.

hell change brought us BFR's and the caves,neither of which added anything to the game but did manage to chase ppl away from the game and we had the bad luck of having WoW released at the same time as the BFR BS started in PS.

we have ppl that talk about playing for 60 hours and how they have the game all figured out and can tell us why PS2 won't work,LOL 60 hours(what a joke)

then we have ppl here that want to play a certain type of character so they start these silly threads about how that type should be buffed,the idea that you want all these perks so you can get easier kills is comical(snipers,cloakers)

all the threads on leadership are hilarious,I never had one problem running large groups in PS,we have always been able to gather up like minded players and run multiple platoons on vent /TS but to read what some ppl have written here, they need a way to "force" ppl to listen to them because the game wasn't set up to require the player to listen to commanders they don't like or trust.

all we need is a game that lets us all group up however we want and have fun,we don't need character classes beefed up so players can rack up easy kills,we don't need a leadership system that is set up to primarily benefit the leader,the same with exit/entry animations,I would much rather have SOE get the balance correct than waste time making sure I can survive bumrushing a tank.

[kubacheski]

Change is inevitable. Its the only constant in the universe.

What some people seem to miss is that everyone will be starting fresh with BR1, minimal certs and have to start learining all over again. Noone will have 7-year badge perks and freely unlocked weapons for time served. I'd almost guarantee that we'd be having a huge whine-fest if PS1 had the current code with a full player-wipe (which makes me wonder what'll happen to PS1 when PS2 is released). Imagine back to the beginning where everyone was less than BR4, had very limited certs, and noone had any implants:

Did you get to choose between a Tank and a Reaver?
Did you get to choose between infecting a base with a virus or BFR?
Did you get to choose between a sniper load or advanced medic?

Nope, for a while you got to choose between shoot a gun or drive/fly. It's going back to that when PS2 starts. It's just that the Hack/Engi/Medic cert trees will be starting at BR1 along with the assault/vehicle cert trees. instead of getting enough BR to get to be able to shoot and heal, you get to do both at BR1, but you have to choose which to advance first. At BR2+ you can advance all your classes if you invest the time so you can switch between them or you can advance a single class as your BR goes up to specialize. Most people specialized i.e. got HA, then supplemented with Engi, then Medic, then MAX, etc. Concept is not that different in PS2, just applied via a class system (segregates the certs for less cross tree certs) and fleshed out more (hopefully) to make the different branches more fun and beneficial to play.

In its basic form I see classes as being an extra visual indicator so others can easily identify what your role is. If you didn't pay much attention to the equipped weapon/tool, it was always hard to tell who did what when everyone could equip the same armor for various cert trees (engi/medic/special assault/etc).

Plus think of command ranks having special armor/helmet/hat. Snipers suddenly have a heirarchy of targets. I can't wait to see good snipers taking out the chain of command cause CR1-CR5 is easily identified.

As for headshots, quick-knife, etc, people complaining about them think they're going to be ganked by them easily. Fits into the rock/paper/scissors design of the game. Kinda like Reaver pilots complaining about Anti-Air. Don't want to get hit by a headshot, then you probably should be a MAX or pilot.

[Bags]

the idea that tank rounds shouldn't be able to kill ppl.



Tank rounds do kill people.

[Nephilimuk]

meh wait for the beta

I am quite sure that if we see it as stupid the devs see as stupid. Also what works in a single player fps in obvious style over substance or protect me from my lame self, will never see the light of day.

No point going all bitter vet and it gives me a giggle reading other peoples "great" ideas.

[DviddLeff]

Also, I remember reading this one article on online gaming and with these different techniques of some bullshit I don't feel like getting in to. But CoD and Battlefield are like bags of potato chips, you go in a match, you like it, you do another match, and another, and then you realize you ate my entire bag of chips, wtf bro?

Planetside isn't a bag of chips, it's like a full course meal with steak, lots of steak, and ice cream and donuts, and barneys and blueberries and a cherry on top. And some lettuce because our girlfriends, wives, and mom's get mad when we don't have fiber in our diet or something, idk.

But you don't eat potato cheaps with this kind of meal, that's just awkward and gets you removed from the table.

I recently went on holiday to Egypt, and stayed in an all inclusive resort. The buffet food served was fine and I could always find something to eat so that I could stuff myself. However the deserts were terrible. After a week I needed something else so ended up finding a McDonalds and a KFC, then a TGIs, and then just wanted to go home to cook my own damned meals.

The buffet was bland, much as PS1's systems were; piss all depth or skill in any field, most was probably air to air but there's not even loops or barrel rolls to add to the skill.

If the buffet had been tastier I would have been satisfied with what I had: PS2 needs to have all the features of other FPS games AND add the massive aspect to it to last more than a few meals.

[Sirisian]

Also, I remember reading this one article on online gaming and with these different techniques of some bullshit I don't feel like getting in to. But CoD and Battlefield are like bags of potato chips, you go in a match, you like it, you do another match, and another, and then you realize you ate my entire bag of chips, wtf bro?

Planetside isn't a bag of chips, it's like a full course meal with steak, lots of steak, and ice cream and donuts, and barneys and blueberries and a cherry on top. And some lettuce because our girlfriends, wives, and mom's get mad when we don't have fiber in our diet or something, idk.

But you don't eat potato cheaps with this kind of meal, that's just awkward and gets you removed from the table.
I recently went on holiday to Egypt, and stayed in an all inclusive resort. The buffet food served was fine and I could always find something to eat so that I could stuff myself. However the deserts were terrible. After a week I needed something else so ended up finding a McDonalds and a KFC, then a TGIs, and then just wanted to go home to cook my own damned meals.

The buffet was bland, much as PS1's systems were; piss all depth or skill in any field, most was probably air to air but there's not even loops or barrel rolls to add to the skill.

If the buffet had been tastier I would have been satisfied with what I had: PS2 needs to have all the features of other FPS games AND add the massive aspect to it to last more than a few meals.
Sometimes I like to eat alone and other times I like to invite people to join me. I don't like to eat with people when they have food, and I don't. Kind of boring that way.</deep>

[Graywolves]

I recently went on holiday to Egypt, and stayed in an all inclusive resort. The buffet food served was fine and I could always find something to eat so that I could stuff myself. However the deserts were terrible. After a week I needed something else so ended up finding a McDonalds and a KFC, then a TGIs, and then just wanted to go home to cook my own damned meals.

The buffet was bland, much as PS1's systems were; piss all depth or skill in any field, most was probably air to air but there's not even loops or barrel rolls to add to the skill.

If the buffet had been tastier I would have been satisfied with what I had: PS2 needs to have all the features of other FPS games AND add the massive aspect to it to last more than a few meals.

What does a Buffet in Egypt have to do with my badass meal?

[basti]

Tank rounds do kill people.

Not exactly.

Ever seen those videos of a tank round hitting someone directly? Those guys dont die, they just fade out of existence. Just woosh, gone.

[p0intman]

Not exactly.

Ever seen those videos of a tank round hitting someone directly? Those guys dont die, they just fade out of existence. Just woosh, gone.

According to the standards of pretty much everyone perhaps except for you, that does qualify as getting killed.

[Raymac]

According to the standards of pretty much everyone perhaps except for you, that does qualify as getting killed.

Dude

:chill:

Also, since you seemed to have missed what Basti was saying, let me help you out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humour

We cool now?

[p0intman]

Dude

:chill:

Also, since you seemed to have missed what Basti was saying, let me help you out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humour

We cool now?

Text is a fucking horrible method of communicating pretty much anything other than what you actually mean. It lacks in a lot of things, namely tone and intent.

Hence 90 percent of what I say is pretty much exactly that: I don't beat around the bush and say exactly what I mean and intend to convey. In person or over TS/vent/whatever it allows expressions to be conveyed more accurately.

You can take what I say as disrespectful because you assume a lot of things, like tone, to be something other than what they might be in truth.

[Raymac]

Text is a fucking horrible method of communicating pretty much anything other than what you actually mean. It lacks in a lot of things, namely tone and intent.


Is that a quote from Hemingway or Twain?

[p0intman]

Is that a quote from Hemingway or Twain?

No idea. Its my opinion and im pretty sure its shared by a great many people.

[Crator]

I agree, that's what emoticons are for. One of these -> :rolleyes: would've have helped with describing emotion.

[Graywolves]

It's the internet 99% of the time someone's being funny or raging. Either way it's hilarious.

[Marsgrim]

A lot of the new guys have never seen the full scale of Planetside, so it is only natural that there is a difference in ideas between the long term players and those new to the game.

Just to put some perspective on this, when PS first launched the initial population caps per continent were higher - they were subsequently reduced (to spread the fight and reduce performance issues), so even if you are logging in now and pop lock an empire you are actually seeing it at ~1/2 of what the populations once were.

Further to that, it needs emphasised that PS is a game of attack and defend - the empire on the attack will at some point have to take a base/tower/resource that is being defended. Those places are set up to work in the defender's favour by giving them more cover.

All the old timers have seen those base fights and been in that scenario where even with the current TTKs they have died 0.5 of a second trying to get into a base.

So if you are currently sitting ther thinking "This game needs to be much faster paced and people should die in 2 shots" you have to realise that means the players of an attacking force are going to be dieing incredibly quickly - and often to stray shots or people they don't have a chance to even know are there. So there has to be a balance between faster gameplay and not favouring defending forces too much or all anyone will do is sit in their base or ragequit because they died 1 second after they spawned whilst attacking a base.

Secondly, on the quick knife, most of us will remember the knife event where one hit from the knife killed you. Cloakers have knives. Event is dominated by cloakers one shotting people.

It's fun, but can you imagine being oneshotted by someone in the back who was invisible and you walked past them never knowing they were there.


So don't think everyone is grumpy and resistant to change for the sake of thinking they will suck or be owned, the majority of guys have been in the scenarios above.

Also, please bear in mind that often in PS it is not how good you are 1v1 or in duel skills, but how good your team is and what weapons you are using and where and how you are fighting.

PS is much more tactical and strategic than people give it credit for, and with respect it's difficult to pick that up in the current game state.


Edit:

Before anyone says "That's what balancing and beta-testing are for!" - you are talking to people who lived through first iteration BFRs, Jackhammer triple-shot instagibbing rexo, Phantasm launching with the 10mm mozzie gun and Lasher 2.0 from the same company!! We're a little scarred and a little jaded!

[Crator]

You also can't judge the TTK problem yet, or even compare it to PS1. We don't know how game play will work. SOE devs did say there will be more utility for squad leaders (i.e. Spawning on squad leader). So, that right there will change the dynamic of TTK, time to spawn, etc.

[Marsgrim]

You also can't judge the TTK problem yet, or even compare it to PS1. We don't know how game play will work. SOE devs did say there will be more utility for squad leaders (i.e. Spawning on squad leader). So, that right there will change the dynamic of TTK, time to spawn, etc.

I am not saying what a TTK should be - each weapon is different - what I am, and I believe others are saying, is that you can't balance a weapon TTK until you have used it in a major firefight, and the game pacing of COD/BF with 32v32 is entirely different from 1000v1000, in the latter someone is ALWAYS shooting you.

[p0intman]

Jackhammer triple-shot instagibbing rexo, Phantasm launching with the 10mm mozzie gun
those were the best of the fuckups. namely because I got to take advantage of them and killed a few of them.

i killed one of the first phantasms ever after the launch event for them. pretty happy with that.

also, i miss my AI pounder from way back in the day on markov.

also: infini-phoenix.

[Raymac]

also, i miss my AI pounder from way back in the day on markov.

also: infini-phoenix.

Yeah, switching the AI and AV TR Maxes was one of the better moves they made. I didn't play TR all that much, but they felt backwards right away. When they switched them to their current status, it instantly felt right. TR Maxes have it tough enough.

I don't remember the "infini-phoenix" though? What was that?

[Marsgrim]

Yeah, switching the AI and AV TR Maxes was one of the better moves they made. I didn't play TR all that much, but they felt backwards right away. When they switched them to their current status, it instantly felt right. TR Maxes have it tough enough.

I don't remember the "infini-phoenix" though? What was that?

The AI Pounder was amazing it shredded infantry and was good vs vehicles.

[Sirisian]

The AI Pounder was amazing it shredded infantry and was good vs vehicles.
I didn't see anyone using the old strategy when I played a while back. Can you still stack grenades at a door such that they basically instagib anyone that tries to walk through it?

[TacosWLove]

What? The AI pounder sucked arse as the AV variant did. It had one good trait and that was to be able to put some damage around corners, felt like it should feel after they made the change.

And yes, PS vets know best, so you new people need to pay some respect to your elders :)

[Krowe]

Pounders are still fairly superior to Duocycs. The only downside is the possibility for friendly fire.

[Fews]

What? The AI pounder sucked arse as the AV variant did. It had one good trait and that was to be able to put some damage around corners, felt like it should feel after they made the change.

And yes, PS vets know best, so you new people need to pay some respect to your elders :)

AI pounder was great to hack out a term in an enemy spawn room before the stupid pain field was put into place. Nothing says FU like a pounder that suddenly appears while there are +10 enemies trying to grab their loadouts

[Effective]

I saw tanks stuff earlier in this thread. If you have a 120hp, you will survive a vanguard round to the face, fact.

[p0intman]

I don't remember the "infini-phoenix" though? What was that?

Oh nothing, it could just chase you to the end of a continent and back.