Average spawn

[Malorn]

What do you think the average resulting time between spawns should be.

Assume deaths, bio labs, and other things which modify the spawn rate are factored in and this is the average time you wait. Sometimes it may be more, sometimes it may be less.

(I made this poll because I liked the topic of Duke's poll but think the methodology produced insignificant results - this is clean start without the PS1 cop-out.).

[Zulthus]

Well, the exact same as PS1 IMO. They were perfect.

[Crator]

On average, I'm saying about 10 seconds.

Would be nice if it could calculate amount of time alive. The longer you've been alive the less time it would take to spawn. So start a base spawn time, let's say 3 seconds, and increase that spawn time by +2 for every death. But decrease the spawn time by -1 if you've been alive for more then 10 minutes. Of course there should be a cap on amount of time to spawn if you did this.

[Aractain]

I dont like sitting watching a timer doing nothing. If there is something to do you while dead I don't mind so much but 30 seconds and above means about half the players are in the spawn screen. I prefer being in the world worrying about logistics (like getting to the fight).

[Crator]

^^^ Good point. Someone in the other poll thread about this suggested that we have option to spawn somewhere else, other then current area you are in. Of course, I'm not sure how this works really in PS2 so all speculation. For all we know there won't be any spawn timers at all. Just comes down to game play mechanics and what they should be to make it fun.

[Logit]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37225

[Bags]

How can we discuss this? We have no idea how the pace will be.

[Malorn]

This is about the pace, Bags. What spawn wait feels right to you? Regardless of everything else. Do you think there should be no delay? Or some reasonable delay that makes death a little more punishing?

Respawn time is just one part of pacing, there are many other ways to affect it, such as being able to choose your spawn destination more liberally. But this isn't about pacing. This is about sitting at a screen wanting to play but staring at a progress bar or timer or just waiting for your body to reconstruct.

It is entirely possible that PS2 could have longer respawn times but more spawn options that are closer to the action that increase pacing significantly but still make death unpleasant and medics important.

What feels right to you? Forget all the other options, imagine you just died and you're sitting at a screen. How long do you think a death should cost you in time above and beyond any other inconvenience in the game.

[Malorn]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37225

I'm not blind - but you may be. In the OP of this thread:
(I made this poll because I liked the topic of Duke's poll but think the methodology produced insignificant results - this is clean start without the PS1 cop-out.).

[Bags]

Time to respawn entirely depends on things like how medics and the TTK will work.

[Malorn]

Not necessarily. How long do you want to stare at a respawn timer bags? It's a simple question.

[Zulthus]

Voted 25 seconds. Prevents enemies from insta-spawning when they die, and also lets me take a look at the killspam, think about how I died, get some chips, etc, etc.

[Bags]

Not necessarily. How long do you want to stare at a respawn timer bags? It's a simple question.

I never want to stare at one, but that's not good for the game.

[Graywolves]

I voted over 30 seconds to fix the overall vote average.

[Aractain]

I hope whatever you voted in the poll is your respawn time in PS2. :D

[Logit]

I'm not blind - but you may be. In the OP of this thread:

Not blind. I just see 2 threads about the same topic.

Regardless of the "methodology."


My $.02, dying is bad. Spawn timer should reflect that, based on the pace of the game.

Which we know very little about.

[TacosWLove]

(I made this poll because I liked the topic of Duke's poll but think the methodology produced insignificant results - this is clean start without the PS1 cop-out.).

WTF? How is PS1 method a "cop-out"? Its s genuine method and like I've said before it more about how long it takes you to get back to the front, rather then how long it takes you to get a new set of skin. So for all I care, make it instant, but take some time to get back to the front, minus some special abilities like AMS's, etc..(with counters to each)

[Malorn]

If you like the PS1 wait times, then pick the number that represents the typical time you waited in PS1.

[Raymac]

If the question is, "how long do I want to stare at a timer bar?" the answer is 0 seconds. I don't want to do it, but I see it as neccessary.

If the question is, "how long do I think the spawn timer should be?" my answer is about 30 seconds give or take. Death should have a penalty, not much of a penalty, but just a little something.

30 seconds should give me enough time for 1) denial, 2) rage, 3) send hate /tell, 4) vow revenge, 5) grab another Mtn Dew, 6) wipe away the tears, 7) compose myself, 8) Respawn.

[Death2All]

I'm in favor of the old system.

Respawn starts at 10 seconds and increases more and more based on time between deaths. The increasing respawn timers served a purpose; They made it so the attacking empire could actually push back the defenders.

Although as Bags said we don't know the pace of the game yet. But assuming it's your traditional shooter and not a run in and shoot in every which direction and then inevitably die two seconds later CoD style game, 10 second respawn timers would suffice and give the game a nice pace.

[Malorn]

Good interpretation Raymac! I agree with all except I would substitute Mt. Dew for Beer/Whiskey, but that's just me, hah.

Being dead for a little while before the respawn also gives medics an opportunity to get you up and save a lot of time getting back to that location and saving the squad the loss of your presence. If respawn is instant then a lot of people won't wait around for a medic, but if you're forced to wait around for at least a little bit then medics have a chance at getting you up and contributing to getting a rifle back into the battle a lot faster. And many people benefit from that.

Taking the opportunity for some good discussion...

I also wonder if regardless of timer if respawning takes some sort of button press on the part of the player. Here's why:

- as Raymac said, death might be a good time to take a quick short break to get a drink, use the bathroom, etc. Having input required by the player would mean you could do that without respawning again at a hot ams or spawn room.

- I am also assuming PS2 has a lot more respawn options in terms of location, so having input required for the respawn would mean you have time to choose the right location.

If spawn times are quick and it auto-spawns it might not be enough time to pick the appropriate location you want to go.

I'm also a fan of taking a res being optional. I always hate in battlefield when some medic gets me up when I want to respawn to go somewhere else. Basically I get griefed by medics instead of controlling when and where I respawn. But that might just be me.

Given that, something in the 15-25s range seems reasonable to me.

[Aractain]

Auto-respawn is a terrible ideae, I agree with that. Also show medics who are close etc to encourage people to stay down for rez.

[Talek Krell]

Maybe it would be good to have the timer start counting from when you died this time instead of when you released?

[Logit]

Maybe it would be good to have the timer start counting from when you died this time instead of when you released?

I think PS1 had it right. You can either A. Wait for someone to come rez you.
B. Tap out and respawn. I don't know if I like having the option to do both at the same time.

[Aractain]

I would assume thats how any modern shooter would hadle it. We arn't in the 2000s anymore, time to progress.

[CutterJohn]

If the question is, "how long do I think the spawn timer should be?" my answer is about 30 seconds give or take. Death should have a penalty, not much of a penalty, but just a little something.

30 seconds is more punishing than pretty much every fps out there thats not a one life per round sort. Not seeing how thats not much of a penalty.

Especially considering PSs generally long time to get back to the fight. A 30 second respawn in TF2 is still a shorter return to the fight than most circumstances would be with instant respawn in ps1.

[Zulthus]

If the question is, "how long do I think the spawn timer should be?" my answer is about 30 seconds give or take. Death should have a penalty, not much of a penalty, but just a little something.

30 seconds should give me enough time for 1) denial, 2) rage, 3) send hate /tell, 4) vow revenge, 5) grab another Mtn Dew, 6) wipe away the tears, 7) compose myself, 8) Respawn.

Exactly... less than 10 second respawns would be horrible. Imagine tower battles. Get killed near the CC, grab MAX, autorun up and kill hacker before he caps it. No no. I vote at least 25 seconds, no less.

[Raymac]

30 seconds is more punishing than pretty much every fps out there thats not a one life per round sort. Not seeing how thats not much of a penalty.

Especially considering PSs generally long time to get back to the fight. A 30 second respawn in TF2 is still a shorter return to the fight than most circumstances would be with instant respawn in ps1.

IMHO 30 seconds isn't that long, but I see what you are saying. Perhaps 20 seconds might be better. The point I was really trying to make is that, just as in PS1, there should be some wait so death means something.

[Aractain]

You all seem to view death as a punishment. Thats a very backwards concept. Death is simply the resolution of the conflict, the outcome. YOU WILL DIE. A LOT. The less good you are the more you die and these people can't be "forced" into being "better players" by some strange method of online torture. They are here to have fun, make the game FUN, even if they die a lot.

Making a game have fast respawns dosn't mean you can't provide benfits to the pros who can stay alive or use medics more efffeciently.

Planetside's pace was horridly slow, sometimes up to 4-5 minuets before you hit combat from respawning (time to combat). Make players do interesting things. An example of this is section 8s respawning using a drop system to drop anywhere is both cool and useful while not having COD like instant spawns; "BEHIND YOU" BLAM!

[Accuser]

Lets do a quick comparison.
Battlefield:
You die and a 10s timer starts. If you aren't rez'd in 10s, you're forced to respawn. You check the map and choose a loadout in 5s, and you're back on the map and at least in sniper range of the fight in 15s total.

In PS1:
You wait 10s hoping a medic will rez you, but there are no medics so you tap. You spend 5s checking the map and choose a respawn. Wait another 15s to spawn, oh but the AMS blew up so now you're back to the map. Wait another 20s to spawn, take a few seconds to get your loadout, then potentially go get a vehicle and travel to get back into the fight. That common situation in PS1 puts you at 60s+ to get back to the fight, and it's still 30s+ if you spawn at a non-exploding AMS.

I'm not going to try to persuade the crowd that the former is better. But when they say they're making it more fast-paced, I think it will end up being much closer to the former than to the latter.

[NewSith]

Lets do a quick comparison.
Battlefield:
You die and a 10s timer starts. If you aren't rez'd in 10s, you're forced to respawn. You check the map and choose a loadout in 5s, and you're back on the map and at least in sniper range of the fight in 15s total.

In PS1:
You wait 10s hoping a medic will rez you, but there are no medics so you tap. You spend 5s checking the map and choose a respawn. Wait another 15s to spawn, oh but the AMS blew up so now you're back to the map. Wait another 20s to spawn, take a few seconds to get your loadout, then potentially go get a vehicle and travel to get back into the fight. That common situation in PS1 puts you at 60s+ to get back to the fight, and it's still 30s+ if you spawn at a non-exploding AMS.

I'm not going to try to persuade the crowd that the former is better. But when they say they're making it more fast-paced, I think it will end up being much closer to the former than to the latter.

That's why zerging < individualism. PS1 disencouraged suicide runs, thx to its system.

But any BF game is the other way around. You shoot, you die, you're rezzed. All under nightmarish grenade spam while taking the objective. And basically the entire game depends on mastery of medics and how quick they can respond to wounded. That makes the job of a medic the most intense, but totaly thankless.

If your spawn mech will be in PS2, we'll have loads of "idfc medics"