Multiple Accounts

[Senyu]

So browsing over the info thread, looking over all the info and dreaming of playing planetside, I saw a bit that made me wonder. As qouted below,

"Only one character can train per account at once offline (F2P so make as many as you want!)"


Now they also said they want 1 Empire per account as to prevent a player hopping over and such. Well F2P kinda throws that out the window. Thoughts?

[basti]

That comment in your quote was added by bags, so ignore it.

For once, we dont know if it will be a box price or completly F2P. Im right now guessing Box price, hopefully.

[Senyu]

Box price would deter it from being more common. Granted people still made multiple accounts with subscriptions though it was much less common. Just F2P mixed with this just worries me more

[Talek Krell]

It is rather odd. I suppose we'll see.

[FIREk]

For once, we dont know if it will be a box price or completly F2P. Im right now guessing Box price, hopefully.

Higby kinda slipped during his dinner with NapalmEnima and he pretty much said that there will be no box price. When Napalm asked to clarify this, Higby tried to cover it up by saying that he doesn't know for sure. ;)

For now I think we can safely assume that it will be 100% free.

Maybe they could add some kind of hardware ID-based limitations. For instance, you can only have same-empire characters on one server, on one PC.
There may be 1000 people in the world that could share one PC and play the same MMO. They could either suck it up and play on the same empire or, since they won't be playing together anyway, they can have characters on different servers. Should they get a second PC, I'm sure SOE can accommodate them with a character move service. :P
The remaining 100000 people claiming to have brothers/sisters/pets that they share their PC with, will most likely be wannabe empire hoppers. :P

[NlightN]

Yeah, I was a little thrown off too when reading that part in the interview. I really hope SOE ends up going with a boxed copy despite what Firek is claiming (along with a free trial to get the numers up) but since Smed already publically announced it would be F2P, I doubt that will change.

People being able to create multiple accounts so easily is going to become a serious issue affecting both gameplay and balance. Without some sort of limiting factor, I know and I'm sure most of you know that everybody and their grandmother will have an alt commander account as an example, to make use of squad spawning and other associated perks just for their outfit or squad alone.

I'm going to give SOE the benefit of the doubt though as I'm sure they're not THAT thickheaded to not have some sort of deterrant to multi account abuse. Have to wait till we get more details on the bus model before we can fuss too much about it.

[SavageB]

Totally free???? I dont think so. I would ASSUME there is gonna be a box price....

[FIREk]

Yeah, I was a little thrown off too when reading that part in the interview. I really hope SOE ends up going with a boxed copy despite what Firek is claiming (along with a free trial to get the numers up) but since Smed already publically announced it would be F2P, I doubt that will change.

Don't get me wrong, I want it to have a box price. ;)

"Free to play" doesn't necessarily mean "Free to start playing", right? :P

[moosepoop]

i think only having one faction per account is dumb. then everyone would not enjoy the other 2/3 of the game content.

a more reasonable method would be just lengthen the faction switch time, from 12 hours in ps1 to maybe 24 or 36 hours.

[FIREk]

i think only having one faction per account is dumb. then everyone would not enjoy the other 2/3 of the game content.

a more reasonable method would be just lengthen the faction switch time, from 12 hours in ps1 to maybe 24 or 36 hours.

Nothing stops people from enjoying the remaining 2/3 on two different servers. ;)

Faction switch timers would help a bit, but at the end of the day it's all down to which faction is doing well that day, so it's either 36 hours or not at all.

Anyway, this thread is about exploits and workarounds that would allow people to empire-swap all the time, with no consequences.

[moosepoop]

well, f2p alts would probably be less powerful than your main accounts, so it might not get as bad.

[Hamma]

I can't see this being 100% free with the dev time and money they are spending. A box price makes more sense, and FPS players are used to paying a box price just not a subscription.

[NapalmEnima]

I can't see this being 100% free with the dev time and money they are spending. A box price makes more sense, and FPS players are used to paying a box price just not a subscription.

OTOH, if they want to compete with the "zero barrier of entry" of other no-box-price F2P games, they'll have to be genuinely F2P as well. And that is precisely what they are up against.

I got the feeling that Higby genuinely didn't know, mostly because it wasn't his department.

What I wouldn't mind seeing is a box that comes with the equivalent amount of station cash in stuff (Premium subscription time, some exclusive content, etc). That way you don't have to download the client, you can install it from a DVD, plus you get your investment back. And SOE gets to make brick-n-mortar retailers happy by selling stuff through them rather than directly.

[NCLynx]

i think only having one faction per account is dumb. then everyone would not enjoy the other 2/3 of the game content.

a more reasonable method would be just lengthen the faction switch time, from 12 hours in ps1 to maybe 24 or 36 hours.

They also said they'd allow another character from another empire on the same account same server if the reason was good enough. Maybe this will be the reason.

[basti]

They also said they'd allow another character from another empire on the same account same server if the reason was good enough. Maybe this will be the reason.

ITs more likley one faction per server, and thats a good thing.

You can still enoy all 3 factions, and can still just switch the faction if you dont enjoy the fight at the moment, but you cant just switch from the looser to the winner. And thats a good thing.

[Goku]

Nothing stops people from enjoying the remaining 2/3 on two different servers. ;)

To be honest I hate playing on any kind of game if my ping goes above 50 or so. I just notice way too much lag. If the other two is west coast and in Europe that likely won't sit well for me. I would rather be able to play any faction I want with in my zone.

I really hope this game does have a box cost. Even if it is $5 to keep hackers away. Total F2P will be a massacre imo. Those people who love griefing with hacks will be all over this game given how much population will be on the conts.

[TheRagingGerbil]

$9.99 through Steam. Done.

[Legion]

In EVE Online, which has a similar off-line training function, you can only train one character at a time so it is standard practice for people to have multiple accounts. I have 3 accounts and pay with in game currency for the subscription on 2 of them. I've been in corporations (outfits) where some members have upwards of 7 accounts, that is over $1000 a year in subscription fees. So don't be surprised if people have multiple accounts from the beginning regardless of box price or subscription. It will be interesting to see if there can be character transfers.

[Senyu]

One faction per server is ideal. Just like WoW in the sense of bored with this server, your team is losing you just hop onto another server with completly different battles happning and faction of your choice.


No matter what people can have multiple accounts, subs tho deter it. And EvE is just crazy so hard to compare

[ThGlump]

well, f2p alts would probably be less powerful than your main accounts, so it might not get as bad.

They dont have to be strong. Simple day 1 cloakers is enough to act as a squad AMS or fast travel over great distances (both via squad spawn).
I really hope at least for box price, or better subscription only server to get rid of multi accounts.

[NapalmEnima]

They dont have to be strong. Simple day 1 cloakers is enough to act as a squad AMS or fast travel over great distances (both via squad spawn).
I really hope at least for box price, or better subscription only server to get rid of multi accounts.

That depends on "squad spawn" being something that can be unlocked on day one. I wouldn't be surprised to find that its as much as a week into the leadership skill tree.

[basti]

They dont have to be strong. Simple day 1 cloakers is enough to act as a squad AMS or fast travel over great distances (both via squad spawn).
I really hope at least for box price, or better subscription only server to get rid of multi accounts.

I find it quite funny how you think you know what is nessesary to use the squad spawning function, and how it really works, based on nothing but the facts you grabbed out of thin air.

Mind if you stop inventing stuff?

[Senyu]

You forget you can train one char per account. With multiple accounts you could have a guy training in every single tree. Why play and spend time unlocking trees and skills when you can have a char for every combo all learning at the same time?

[Wahooo]

I like 1 faction per-account, per-empire. I think the passion that is created from that loyalty to the empire is kinda fun.
Gut feeling, I would rather see an initial price. You will still get multi-accounts no matter what, and I don't see a problem with that really but something to make it a bit more of a commitment.

[FIREk]

You forget you can train one char per account. With multiple accounts you could have a guy training in every single tree. Why play and spend time unlocking trees and skills when you can have a char for every combo all learning at the same time?

Well, at least you still have to grind the BR up, since higher-tiered certs will have BR requirements... So it at least won't be as easy as playing a TR char most of the time, and just switching skills on your free alt accounts through your browser. ;)

[ThGlump]

I find it quite funny how you think you know what is nessesary to use the squad spawning function, and how it really works, based on nothing but the facts you grabbed out of thin air.

Mind if you stop inventing stuff?

Ok. Not from air. Here how it comes.
No AMS, only know field spawn is gal and squad spawn. No cloak on gal yet. You can spawn on any squad mate eventually.
Squad behind enemy lines going into base to capture/disable. What will be their backup respawn when they cant hide AMS or Gal near? Simplest solution provided by F2P feature is multiboxed cloaker near that base to squad spawn on, just in case you get wiped inside. That will work even with somewhat longer squad spawn timer restrictions.

And if you do that there is only step to have multiple cloakers near important places that you expect to be attacked so you can quickly respawn there.

F2P + squad spawn will be bad combination, as there could those multi accounts could quite lower possible amount of player of continent pop cap if most squad will use it.

[Goku]

We still do not know how far down the progression tree the squad spawn is and it has a long timer on it once used. I am pretty sure the devs will do their best to make sure it isn't abused.

[ThGlump]

That is not a question for far in tree it is. As long you dont have to choose between certs (you can learn everything from cert tree), it will become problem. Week after launch, month, half a year, it doesnt matter eventually everyone will have it.

[NapalmEnima]

That is not a question for far in tree it is. As long you dont have to choose between certs (you can learn everything from cert tree), it will become problem. Week after launch, month, half a year, it doesnt matter eventually everyone will have it.

I'm pretty sure all those squad leader abilities only matter when you're actually leading your squad, though that might be me accidentally filling in some blanks and not realizing it.

So it doesn't matter if everyone has 5 infiltrator alts with squad spawning. The only one that matters is the squad leader, and I doubt they'll let you switch when your squad leader is dead just so that player can spawn on someone else. That would be cheesy.

And if you want to fill your squad with 5 folks not doing a damn thing, my squad of 10 actual players will roll you and yours up like a cheap newspaper.

[Wahooo]

I can't wait till an Open Beta. Everyone loves it for a free sneak peak at a game, but really what it is for is finding and reporting exploiatable, or abusable mechanics so they get fixed... right?

Getting all worked up over a make believe scenerio that may have absolutely nothing in common with how actual gameplay turns out is kinda silly.

[ThGlump]

If squad leader has proper cert, you can spawn on ANYBODY from your squad, not only leader. You dont even need to train those infils (if they can cloak from start). And why have that many in squad? They can take only 1 spot (or none if you could switch them while dead), for when you really need that respawn nearby.

[Lonehunter]

What if having multiple characters is something sold in a store? The ability to make one on dif empires could be too, but only with a ridiculous 1-2 day timer. Or maybe just a one time empire switch, can only use every few months.

[ThGlump]

Getting all worked up over a make believe scenerio that may have absolutely nothing in common with how actual gameplay turns out is kinda silly.

Oh it was pretty common. Fly behind enemy lines to techplant, pull a AMS there and hide it, drop gen so enemy lose tech benefit and hold as long you can so your empire can get some advantage in battle. When wiped out spawn in hidden AMS, and get back before they can fix everything.
PS isnt only about frontline battles where you have plenty of spawns. And if it wont be possible to gain some tactical tactical advantage from similar stuff and only viable would be frontline fight it would be pretty boring.

[moosepoop]

i dont mind buying character slots in a f2p game. it doesnt change gameplay mechanics.

[Effective]

If squad leader has proper cert, you can spawn on ANYBODY from your squad, not only leader.

Reference please.



This being all said, it's going to be pretty much impossible to create any real regulations to deny people access to multiple accounts. For example, almost any restrictions that would be placed would immediately prevent people from 1 household from playing together, which to me seems dumb.

The only thing that can be realistically done is to prevent multiple clients from being opened on the same computer.

[BorisBlade]

Reference please.

Sadly he's actually right, nothin ive seen is pulled from thin air, however honestly we dont know enough about limits or lack thereof for the various aspects of squad spawnin so we shouldnt get too riled up yet. It may be a terrible idea, but until we know more, we dont know what all to complain about or how to discuss tryin to fix it/make it work. They seem determined to use it, because its a BF feature and they are copying it as much as they possibly can and still pretend its PS.(sadly im only half joking)

And yeah it should have a box price or you can easily get alot of issues. Yes spying can be done easily enough over voice and normally isnt any big deal, but when you make free accounts that allow for it to be easy for anyone, then it can be more of an issue. Add in other cheap tricks and tactics and not to mention hackin/cheaters, its just better to put in a box cost, even if its very low.

[Legion]

I have played hundreds of hours of Battlefield Bad Company 2, and the squad spawn mechanic is a great way to speed up the game and prevent one big bottleneck where two sides kill each other then run back to the action from their respective spawns to end up in the same spot. It will mean more searching for that other member of the squad and wondering if there is someone sitting somewhere simply waiting for their squad to spawn.

However, the squad spawn option is not always the best. Often times it means spawning into instant death because your squad member is engaged in a battle against superior numbers. Also, when the heat of battle is on, people many times will not wait for their other squad mates to spawn and will instead go headlong into battle.

So in summary, the squad spawn mechanic can be a great tool, but it can also be something that is relied upon to a squad member's detriment. It may seem one sided, but if you are coming up on a squad from behind and suddenly 3 more guys pop up, that is three more kills you could get because they don't see you coming. Also, its hard to hide when there is a constant stream of guys coming from your position or spawning on you and shooting to give away your position. We all remember the AMS and we all found those, its the same thing with a different mechanic. In fact, it might be easier to kill off an entire squad then it is to blow up an AMS.

[basti]

Ok. Not from air. Here how it comes.
No AMS, only know field spawn is gal and squad spawn. No cloak on gal yet. You can spawn on any squad mate eventually.
Squad behind enemy lines going into base to capture/disable. What will be their backup respawn when they cant hide AMS or Gal near? Simplest solution provided by F2P feature is multiboxed cloaker near that base to squad spawn on, just in case you get wiped inside. That will work even with somewhat longer squad spawn timer restrictions.

And if you do that there is only step to have multiple cloakers near important places that you expect to be attacked so you can quickly respawn there.

F2P + squad spawn will be bad combination, as there could those multi accounts could quite lower possible amount of player of continent pop cap if most squad will use it.


Not air? Well then, lets call it oxygen. In the end, its the same: YOu assume stuff we have no information about.

You assume that a cloaker can be uses as a base for squad spawning, you assume that all that is nessesary to use that cloaker as a spawn point is a squad leader with high enough certs, and you assume you could just spawn a squad over there without any trouble.

And theres nothing to back your claims up.

Granted, from what we know it could be indeed possible to do this, but there is still a beta coming, and stuff like that will never make it into the game at the end, because we all will yell at them that even the guys at timbabwe that never heard about the internet before will know our rage.


But lets just grab some more stuff out of the air:

Lets assume cloakers cant be used for squad spawning.
LEts assume the timer to use squad spawning for anyone in the squad (squad spawn squad cooldown ^^) is 1 minute
Lets assume the personal cooldown for each player to use squad spawning is 10 minutes (means every 1 minute someone in the squad can spawn on someone else, but each player can only spawn every 10 minutes. get it?)
Lets assume you cant use squad spawning while deep inside enemy territory.


And lets not forget: It has been already said that taking a base deep behind enemy lines will take quite some time, 30 minutes was said as an example actually. So what would be the point of going to a base deep in enemy territory, trying to capture it, failing and seeing it resecured, to just attempt it again?




From all i know right now about the squad spawning feature, it seems to be ment to get you to the action quickly/get you to your squad mates quickly, and NOT as a useful way to respawn every time you die.

[Senyu]

I can't wait till an Open Beta. Everyone loves it for a free sneak peak at a game, but really what it is for is finding and reporting exploiatable, or abusable mechanics so they get fixed... right?

Getting all worked up over a make believe scenerio that may have absolutely nothing in common with how actual gameplay turns out is kinda silly.

But it can affect how well the game does and break it or ruin the games reputation. Which can be more disastrous than broken gameplay. And its not that much of a make believe of a scenario, actually seems more likely to happen than up in the air mechanics people are coming up with.

[Wahooo]

Oh it was pretty common. Fly behind enemy lines to techplant, pull a AMS there and hide it, drop gen so enemy lose tech benefit and hold as long you can so your empire can get some advantage in battle. When wiped out spawn in hidden AMS, and get back before they can fix everything.
PS isnt only about frontline battles where you have plenty of spawns. And if it wont be possible to gain some tactical tactical advantage from similar stuff and only viable would be frontline fight it would be pretty boring.

I don't understand now, pulling an AMS from an enemy tech plant is an exploit?

Do we know if a cloaker can be a spawn point?
What we've heard them talk about is a light-armor with jump jets getting behind enemy lines. It sounds to me like this mechanic is what they want? Is it really hard to find a single AFK player (which is what a second box would be essentially) with a bunch of people popping up around them?

By make believe scenario i'm talking about this being some OP exploit and it simply doesn't sound like it. I'm a little skeptical about it, but "OMG sky is falling" seems like a stupid reaction to something you haven't even experienced yet.

And yeah a broken game in beta can affect the reputation which is the reason for a CLOSED beta first, which I hope SOE will consider rather than just a pre-order jumpstart.

[ThGlump]

You assume that a cloaker can be uses as a base for squad spawning, you assume that all that is nessesary to use that cloaker as a spawn point is a squad leader with high enough certs, and you assume you could just spawn a squad over there without any trouble.

And theres nothing to back your claims up.

Ok backing it up from PS2 info thread v2.0

Question: the AMS may have been slow, but it served a vital purpose. Will there be a ground-based cloakable spawn point of some sort?
Higby: infiltrators in your squad when you have a squadleader with squad spawning spec'd. <trollface>

Granted, from what we know it could be indeed possible to do this, but there is still a beta coming, and stuff like that will never make it into the game at the end, because we all will yell at them that even the guys at timbabwe that never heard about the internet before will know our rage.


And what you think is im doing? Pointing at possible break mechanic that very probable will be ingame to start the rage so, it can be changed before is too late.

Lets assume you cant use squad spawning while deep inside enemy territory.

So only spawn that left is gal which is so huge it will be visible from miles away (unless they add cloak), so it will be pointless to take it deep inside enemy territory, which leaves us with no known field spawn there = only fights will be at the frontline. I really hope your assumption is wrong.

And lets not forget: It has been already said that taking a base deep behind enemy lines will take quite some time, 30 minutes was said as an example actually. So what would be the point of going to a base deep in enemy territory, trying to capture it, failing and seeing it resecured, to just attempt it again?

Yea it was meant to be more like disabling technology than capturing. Which isnt in game yet because bases dont have benefits right now. But i hope something similar will be there.

[NapalmEnima]

Yea it was meant to be more like disabling technology than capturing. Which isnt in game yet because bases dont have benefits right now. But i hope something similar will be there.

Facilities do have a benefit: resource income. And I suspect we'll be able to "blow up the ore processor" or some such to interfere with that benefit.

Not the same as taking away their only tech plant, clearly, but not trivial either.

[FIREk]

Facilities do have a benefit: resource income. And I suspect we'll be able to "blow up the ore processor" or some such to interfere with that benefit.

Not the same as taking away their only tech plant, clearly, but not trivial either.

Honestly, this is no reason to attack anything - denying other players resources for a while serves no tactical or strategic purpose. At best, it's minor griefing. ;) I'm pretty sure that rolling out customized vehicles won't cost THAT many resources - it will likely be more of a choice of whether or not I want to save up resources for some cert or long-term upgrade (like an implant).
Limiting VS players 10% resources for 30 minutes can't possibly accomplish a thing.

We need a reason to perform behind-enemy-lines attacks that hinder the enemy's war effort, not how fast player X will be able to buy upgrade Y.

[Senyu]

^

No reason to attack anything given what we currently know. I think the devs will have reason enough not revealed to us. And I think there is more to facilities than just preventing them to get an upgrade/customizable sidearm