"The Vanu are techno-religious nut jobs."

[LZachariah]

Ouch o.O This is written beside the small icon of the Vanu symbol on the new art post (which I found to be extremely interesting, and I love how invested SOE is in its fanbase). Reading this comment made me sad, however, because it shows that the developers of the game see a flaw (or possible "these are the bad guys") mentality toward one of their factions.

It's not a huge deal to me, but it gave me pause, because it was the first time that there has ever been an imbalance of the normal Planetside harmony of "All these factions have a reason to fight, you could empathize with any of them, there are no good guys or bad guys in this war." Calling one of the factions a bunch of nut jobs disrupts that balance. Now, for sure, SOE never said that to "us," what we're reading are notes that they are allowing us to see for the first time, presumably given to their artists for some conceptual focus. However, when the artists and designers have it in their heads that "The Terrans are militaristic, the NC are separatist commandos, and the Vanu are techno-religious nut jobs," some of the inherent disdain might filter down into the design.

I'm not challenging anyone on this, and I'm not too upset, it just caught me off guard (the Vanu having always been my faction). Hell, T-Ray loves the Vanu the MOST, and he's the art director. But I guess I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

Just thought I'd share mine :)

~Zachariah

[FastAndFree]

I took it as a tongue-in-cheek exageration

[Xyntech]

As a IRL atheist and a die hard Vanu for life, I for one welcome our techno-religious nut job overlords.

I think the only thing out of place is that this is the other empires view of the VS, as opposed to their view of themselves like the other two empires descriptors. We have always been the religious extremists in the eyes of the TR and NC, but to ourselves we nobly seek enlightenment through technological progress.

The Terran scum are naziesque oppressive authoritarians and the Conglomerate bastards are a rogue terrorist faction. It don't make them bad people.

[Traak]

The Terran scum are naziesque oppressive authoritarians and the Conglomerate bastards are a rogue terrorist faction. It don't make them bad people.

LOL

[FastAndFree]

You missed a perfectly good opportunity to mock the NC for their steam-age technology >_>

In fact, this just gave me an idea, there should be a chart about how each empire view themselves and the other 2!

[Draep]

The VS were techno-religious nutjobs in the first PS. Neeext

[Hamma]

Techno-Organic yo!

[Bags]

T-Ray loves VS so I wouldn't take any insults about them too seriously.

[Legion]

T-Ray loves VS so I wouldn't take any insults about them too seriously.

Yeah, T-Ray probably wrote those mini descriptions and he is a nut about VS, a fanatical fan.

[LZachariah]

All good points. Like I say, I'm not too worried, though it struck me as almost out of place. And you're all definitely right, this is an excellent description of how the OTHER two factions see us :D

[FastAndFree]

Yay or nay?

We are the Terran Republic, the legitimate rulers of Auraxis and beyond. We have kept peace and order for millennia, and we'll be damned if anybody ruins it.
The NC are rebel scum who dress funny and want to ruin everything we have worked for. We will crush them in our iron fist and restore Order.
The VS are rebel scum who smell funny and want to ruin everything we have worked for. We will crush them in our iron fist and restore Order.

We are the New Conglomerate, the last hope for freedom on Auraxis. Nuff said, fetch my a beer!
The TR are a bunch of nazicommies who would sooner die than leave us be, so we gladly help them do just that any chance we get.
The VS are alienloving techno-religious nut jobs who want to brainwash and/or anal-probe us. We'll just keep shooting them in the face until they give up and leave us alone - i.e. forever.

We are the Vanu Sovereignty, the shining future of mankind. We labor day and night to bring that future to the present, and to share it with everyone.
The TR are relics of the past stuck in their way who don't appreciate what we are doing for them because they don't understand we have the same goals. We just do it better. They will see, once we have changed their way for them.
The NC are unsophisticated anarchists who fear and misunderstand us, but we will not give up. We will show them the light, through any means necessary. For their own good.

[LZachariah]

Hahahahaha. Love it. I'm sure it would need to be a little polished before it was posted on the actual game, but it's a spectacular start.

[atone]

y'all jus wait righ'cheer lemme git ma gun...

[Buddahx]

if your VS and don't like being called a techno-religious nut job then you can get out :p

[LZachariah]

(btw, change the "mankind" to "humankind"; I have a few ladies who are really looking forward to this game). Perfect!

[Gandhi]

(btw, change the "mankind" to "humankind"; I have a few ladies who are really looking forward to this game). Perfect!
Eh, "mankind" has nothing to do with gender... besides, humankind :p

[Nihil]

(btw, change the "mankind" to "humankind"; I have a few ladies who are really looking forward to this game). Perfect!

*groan* That's some fine white knighting, Lou.

[Talek Krell]

The VS were techno-religious nutjobs in the first PS. NeeextOnly to the ignorant. It would have been more accurate to describe us as fanatical transhumanists, but because we pursue science with a fervor that most would reserve for their god(s) and, presumably, because the TR and NC have trouble with that whole science/magic thing they generally label us "religious" instead.

Yay or nay?Yay. I likey. :)

[Bags]

Damn telek, you crazeh.

[Talek Krell]

Like a fox.





Wait...

[boblikesoup]

I think "techno-religious nutjobs" is appropriate given that from our non-Auraxian point of view (which T-Ray shares given he is an Earth human), we would likely view their own views as hogwash despite however (in)valid they might be.

[LZachariah]

Like a fox.





Wait...

Hahahahahaha.

[FastAndFree]

Mankind means the human species. Sawry.

But if anyone has any input please shoot, I intend for this to be a collaboration or something.

Also I adopted the "techno-religious nutjobs", it almost feels like part of the Lore alredy :)

[Goku]

Only to the ignorant. It would have been more accurate to describe us as fanatical transhumanists, but because we pursue science with a fervor that most would reserve for their god(s) and, presumably, because the TR and NC have trouble with that whole science/magic thing they generally label us "religious" instead.

Yay. I likey. :)

Yes you guys still have not made a good permanent heavy assault. How many have you been through since 03 ;)?

[FastAndFree]

Yes you guys still have not made a good permanent heavy assault. How many have you been through since 03 ;)?

That's because most of our scientists are more interested in making our weapons more blinky and sparkly then more destructive...

Really, just last week a breakthrough in assault weapons was announced. Our shock troops stormed the lab to get their hands on it...

Which turned out to be just a Lasher modified to fire orbs in alternating colors.
Though admittedly it was kinda pretty

[DviddLeff]

Techno religious nut jobs was always the way I saw the VS; its why my Vindicators have religious ranks; Brother, Acolyte, Deacon, Chaplain, Templar, Priest, Bishop and Patriarch.

[Goku]

That's because most of our scientists are more interested in making our weapons more blinky and sparkly then more destructive...

Really, just last week a breakthrough in assault weapons was announced. Our shock troops stormed the lab to get their hands on it...

Which turned out to be just a Lasher modified to fire orbs in alternating colors.
Though admittedly it was kinda pretty

Lmao A+!

[SuperMorto]

:)

[Talek Krell]

Yes you guys still have not made a good permanent heavy assault. How many have you been through since 03 ;)?
Hey now, we made some good tries! It's not our fault they keep degrading! *mutters something about destabilizing waveforms and quantum double reacharounds*

[Brusi]

According to the lore as seen through American eyes, yes VS and TR are badguys and NC are the good guys.

Just like in real life, the majority of the world isn't american... so you will always find plenty of people who are happy to play the bad guys. Thats why there are two whole factions of them haha!

[Nephilimuk]

All worships the gods of disco

You can dance with our mighty plasma orbs because in the old game you would never die to them in their final incarnation. :rolleyes:

Oh and Terran you are not a solider you are walking energy source - get in the reprocessing van.

[Xyntech]

According to the lore as seen through American eyes, yes VS and TR are badguys and NC are the good guys.

Just like in real life, the majority of the world isn't american... so you will always find plenty of people who are happy to play the bad guys. Thats why there are two whole factions of them haha!

Funny thing about America is we that have a healthy dose of all three empires. Totalitarian freedom loving religious nutjobs, the lot of us.

Now all we need is a purple political party, fuck that green shit.

[Tiberius]

The whole plot is OBVIOUSLY a parallel to the 18th Century. The NC are the Americans who succeeded from Britain's authoritarian regime. The VS are the French. lol

[FastAndFree]

The whole plot is OBVIOUSLY a parallel to the 18th Century. The NC are the Americans who succeeded from Britain's authoritarian regime. The VS are the French. lol

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Now you have ruined it :(

[Pillow]

"The Vanu are techno-religious nut jobs."

They sure are and they only listen to german techno>> Balloon - Technorocker - YouTube

:lol:

[Goku]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Now you have ruined it :(

Ah. VS won't be lasting long against the TR if that is the case. Can you say WW2 all over again :rofl:.

[Talek Krell]

Can you say WW2 all over again :rofl:.Wait, the TR are going to huddle on an island getting the shit bombed out of them until the NC come to bail their ass out?:huh:

[Goku]

Wait, the TR are going to huddle on an island getting the shit bombed out of them until the NC come to bail their ass out?:huh:

Hmm. If we are going with the VS being the French then you guys get rolled over. TR being the Nazis of course. Then the liberating NC come in and make everything perfect as the Americans.

Or we just make the TR the Russians and split the VS apart from their homeland :).

[Talek Krell]

I thought the TR were the British getting backstabbed by the french VS who are secretly supporting the American NC revolution? I'm so confused. :(

[Goku]

I thought the TR were the British getting backstabbed by the french VS who are secretly supporting the American NC revolution? I'm so confused. :(

I will looking forward by about 170 years or so.

[Captain1nsaneo]

Pardon the return to topic. I remember reading an interview with one of the Devs who said flat out that the TR are meant to be the villains. NC were warmongering hippies and the VS are just kinda hanging out trying to stop the destruction of alien tech. Though that makes us much more reasonable than I'd like us to be. I actually made an outfit based around being crazed religious fanatics. Heck it's still around and here's the proof http://myplanetside.station.sony.com/outfit.jsp?outfitId=16292&worldId=3
The name's a bit of an in-joke though (no, it's not from C&C). Still, I welcome my faith poor brothers into the true fold! We will convert these heathens so that the pure Light of Knowledge may burn the darkness out of their unseeing eyes.

Now that I think about it our outfit may have had a bit too much of a fix on the more nut job aspect. I think I still have some of the Vanu-jesus pictures and the inspired text laid down by the prophet FStartA describing the end times, the return of Kain, and the deliverance of the Vanu from the hands of our enemies.

[Erendil]

Yay or nay?

We are the Terran Republic, the legitimate rulers of Auraxis and beyond. We have kept peace and order for millennia, and we'll be damned if anybody ruins it.
The NC are rebel scum who dress funny and want to ruin everything we have worked for. We will crush them in our iron fist and restore Order.
The VS are rebel scum who smell funny and want to ruin everything we have worked for. We will crush them in our iron fist and restore Order.

We are the New Conglomerate, the last hope for freedom on Auraxis. Nuff said, fetch my a beer!
The TR are a bunch of nazicommies who would sooner die than leave us be, so we gladly help them do just that any chance we get.
The VS are alienloving techno-religious nut jobs who want to brainwash and/or anal-probe us. We'll just keep shooting them in the face until they give up and leave us alone - i.e. forever.

We are the Vanu Sovereignty, the shining future of mankind. We labor day and night to bring that future to the present, and to share it with everyone.
The TR are relics of the past stuck in their way who don't appreciate what we are doing for them because they don't understand we have the same goals. We just do it better. They will see, once we have changed their way for them.
The NC are unsophisticated anarchists who fear and misunderstand us, but we will not give up. We will show them the light, through any means necessary. For their own good.

Me like! :D

You got the Terrans' view of the other empires mixed up a bit tho.

The NC are the ones who smell funny since they're a rag-tag bunch of inbred hillbilly wannabee commandos who never bathe, live in mud huts, and don't know the meaning of the terms "toilet" or "indoor plumbing". :lol:

The VS.... Well, we wear purple, so I could see where the oppressed and inflexible TR mind might mistake our superior fashion sense as "dressing funny." . :p

Oh, and you should probably work in the words "sub-human" and/or "Neanderthal" into the VS perception of the NC.... :cool:

[LordReaver]

conglomerate (plural conglomerates)

A cluster of heterogeneous things.
(business) A corporation formed by the combination of several smaller corporations whose activities are unrelated to the corporation's primary activity.
(geology) A rock consisting of gravel or pebbles embedded in a matrix.


The NC are many things, such as rebels, terrorist, mercenaries, etc. We are not single minded.

For example... I seek universal power, and the NC provide the best platform for manipulation at my will. Due to being fractured and desiring of a new world.

The NC seek freedom. To others they create anarchy.
The TR seek stability. To others they create stagnation.
The VS seek religion. To others they create zealotry.

[Captain B]

Switch "stagnation" for "oppression" and "religion" for "enlightenment". I doubt a bunch of crazy scientists embracing mysterious alien archeotech would be very religious purposely.

[Talek Krell]

Switch"religion" for "enlightenment". I doubt a bunch of crazy scientists embracing mysterious alien archeotech would be very religious purposely."ascension" or "understanding" would also be acceptable substitutes.

[FastAndFree]

Me like! :D

You got the Terrans' view of the other empires mixed up a bit tho.


Are you telling me that the official guidelines are incorrect? IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO TELL ME?
Commissar Drake, get this man out of my sight.


Oh, and you should probably work in the words "sub-human" and/or "Neanderthal" into the VS perception of the NC.... :cool:

I actually had "neanderthals" in the first version :D

The NC seek freedom. To others they create anarchy.
The TR seek stability. To others they create stagnation.
The VS seek religion. To others they create zealotry.


I think the keyword for the VS would be progress

[Graywolves]

The Vanu are techno-religious nut-jobs.

Harness technologies of an ancient race they hardly understand. Fanatic at it to the point they defect from their empire.

[Talek Krell]

The Vanu are techno-religious nut-jobs.

Harness technologies of an ancient race they hardly understand. Fanatic at it to the point they defect from their empire.You've got the "techno" and quite possibly the "nut-job", but you're missing kind of a critical element.

[Graywolves]

You've got the "techno" and quite possibly the "nut-job", but you're missing kind of a critical element.

I included fanatics.

[Talek Krell]

I included fanatics.Yes, but you left out religious.

[Graywolves]

Yes, but you left out religious.

Fine they're scientologists.



I'd imagine an empire based entirely on the technology of an ancient race would be religious about it.

[Talek Krell]

Fine they're scientologists.....In what way?


I'd imagine an empire based entirely on the technology of an ancient race would be religious about it.Why? They're reverse engineering the stuff, not worshipping it. They clearly understand it pretty well, given that they're integrating the scientific principles with existing technology to create advanced war machines.

[Captain B]

Fine they're scientologists.


Randy: What is it Stan?
Stan: Tom Cruise, John Travolta and the whole Vanu Sovereignty won't come out of the closet.

:D

[Graywolves]

....In what way?


Why? They're reverse engineering the stuff, not worshipping it. They clearly understand it pretty well, given that they're integrating the scientific principles with existing technology to create advanced war machines.

They betrayed their empire to form their own empire which they named after the ancient race. It's religious behavior.

Just because they don't call the Vanu gods doesn't make it below worship or religion.

They've gone a little more than pursuing scientific advances....

[Talek Krell]

They betrayed their empire to form their own empire which they named after the ancient race. It's religious behavior.
Just because they don't call the Vanu gods doesn't make it below worship or religion.
They've gone a little more than pursuing scientific advances....They "betrayed" a totalitarian regime that was trying to suppress what was probably the single most important research opportunity humanity had ever encountered. The NC defected first chance they got, and they're fanatical about that "Freedom" and "Liberty" but I don't see anyone considering them religious.
This is as ridiculous as saying that all paleontologists are ancestor worshippers.

[Captain B]

They aren't all paleontologists (or more appropriately, archeologists), though. They're also seeking the Vanu as a rebirth and the "next step" in human progress. I'm sure you have the middle-of-the-road Vanu and scientists and such, just like NC has hippies and anarchists alongside profiteers and pirates, but much of Vanu's perspective lies in turning humanity into something else, or at least pursuing advancement through alien technology.

That is far different than studying a past to better understand it. No archeologist is suggesting we carve out longboats and resume piratical viking lifestyles. In effect, that is what the Vanu is doing - and killing anyone who tries to resist their plan or "final solution".

[Geist]

Gotta say, this thread is full of epic win. Keep it up.

Btw, I've always felt that the Empires go like this:

Terran Republic fight to bring peace and order to Auraxis, under the Iron Fist of their rule.

The New Conglomerate just wish for the ability to freely live their lives without the oversight of a government body watching their every action.

The Vanu Sovereignty see themselves as the future of humanity, a glorious combination of mankind and hyperadvanced technology.

The TR see the NC as anarchists and the VS as rogue technozealots who pay no heed to just how dangerous this technology may be.

The NC view the TR as a remnant of the oppressive regime they hoped to escape from through the wormhole and the VS as another faction just as oppressive under a different cause.

The VS view the TR as a government too afraid of progress, and the NC as a radical element that in the future may come to directly compete with their monopoly on technology.

At least, those are my personal opinions. No doubt the story will be a bit fleshed out come release.

[Captain B]

I really love the "pirate" aspect of NC. I hope in the future with the sandbox additions we'll be able to explore that through outfit customizations. YARR!!

[Talek Krell]

They aren't all paleontologists (or more appropriately, archeologists), though.I didn't say they were. I was pointing out that it was ridiculous to assume that a group of scientists would found a new religion just because they were researching alien technology.

No archeologist is suggesting we carve out longboats and resume piratical viking lifestyles. In effect, that is what the Vanu is doing I'd say there's a distinct difference between advocating a return to a dark age and insisting we should learn how all this incredibly advanced technology works so we can use it ourselves. Your assessment is largely on point though. I tend to believe that the VS are mostly fighting because the TR and NC won't leave them be but that was left up to interpretation. At least in PS1.

[Captain B]

PS1's fluff was pretty thin, but this time around I'm hearing stuff from T-Ray in interviews ("these guys over here are fighting and [VS] is trying to take over the universe") and even bits of fluff about NC's perspective that makes me think VS is going the "progress with us or be left in ashes behind us" route overall and not just as an extreme rarity within the empire (like NC's profiteers being the rarity compared to all the idealist freedom fighters/terrorists).

[Talek Krell]

Yeah, it's sounding like we'll be more aggressive this time around. Or at least thinking more long term. Works fine for me, I'm just hoping that "religious" in this case is more Zen and less Judeo-Christian.

[Krowe]

Yeah, it's sounding like we'll be more aggressive this time around. Or at least thinking more long term. Works fine for me, I'm just hoping that "religious" in this case is more Zen and less Judeo-Christian.

Zen?

I'm sorry, the Vanu don't strike me as calm tea-drinkers, they strike me as futuristic Al Qaeda/IRA. If they aren't depicted as borderline mentally unstable and fanatical then I'll be severely disappointed.

[Talek Krell]

As in the pursuit of an idea or state of being, rather than a deity. You people are not doing well with metaphors today.

[Erendil]

Gotta say, this thread is full of epic win. Keep it up.

Btw, I've always felt that the Empires go like this:

Terran Republic fight to bring peace and order to Auraxis, under the Iron Fist of their rule.

The New Conglomerate just wish for the ability to freely live their lives without the oversight of a government body watching their every action.

The Vanu Sovereignty see themselves as the future of humanity, a glorious combination of mankind and hyperadvanced technology.

The TR see the NC as anarchists and the VS as rogue technozealots who pay no heed to just how dangerous this technology may be.

The NC view the TR as a remnant of the oppressive regime they hoped to escape from through the wormhole and the VS as another faction just as oppressive under a different cause.

The VS view the TR as a government too afraid of progress, and the NC as a radical element that in the future may come to directly compete with their monopoly on technology.

At least, those are my personal opinions. No doubt the story will be a bit fleshed out come release.

This falls pretty closeley in line with my idea of each factions views of themselves and others, except for your description of how the VS view the NC.

The way I see it, the VS view the NC as a bunch of directionaless anarchists with no ambition who are just squandering away their lives in a hedonistic pursuit of perpetual self-interest with no concern for the consequences their actions may have on the rest of society.

Kinda like an empire full of 30-year old high school dropouts still living in their mommy's basements and spending all day either playing on their XBox's or surfing p0rn, and going clubbing every night totally sloshed looking for a fix or trying to pick up chix. :D

I think the Vanu are more afraid the NC are heading down a path that leads to a cataclysmic collapse of their empire down into the Dark Ages, and that if left unchecked they'll pull the rest of Humanity down with them.

[Captain B]

Kinda like an empire full of 30-year old high school dropouts still living in their mommy's basements and spending all day either playing on their XBox's or surfing p0rn, and going clubbing every night totally sloshed looking for a fix or trying to pick up chix. :D

This is why I joined NC.

Mothers in the house makin' grilled cheeses represent.

[Captain1nsaneo]

If they aren't depicted as borderline mentally unstable and fanatical then I'll be severely disappointed.

Me too.

[Tikuto]

I like the idea of religion in PlanetSide.


It's part of human nature to worship deity. And Planetside is a new world so an open-mind is a necessity for this 'new world new order' :D

[LordReaver]

The VS have to be religious. If they are just looking for better technology, then why are they incompatible with the other empires? One thing about humans is that no matter what their belief is, they will seek advancement in military technology. Look no further than Native Americans for proof. "We'll give you some guns for a large portion of the land you live off of"..."Consider it yours!"

So the VS being religious really is the best explanation for them.

[FastAndFree]

The VS have to be religious. If they are just looking for better technology, then why are they incompatible with the other empires? One thing about humans is that no matter what their belief is, they will seek advancement in military technology. Look no further than Native Americans for proof. "We'll give you some guns for a large portion of the land you live off of"..."Consider it yours!"

So the VS being religious really is the best explanation for them.

Dogmatic is probably a better word.
The VS are not the Adeptus Mechanicus with their Machine God :rolleyes:

But I can see them trying to push for a technological singularity, which ought to be enough to scare the crap out of the other empires. (And with good reason)

Especially since it would be based on alien technology that may or may not be understood correctly...

-Why won't you see that we are doing this for you just as much as for ourselves?? Just look at all this technology the Ancient Vanu left for us! With this, we can become so much more! We can become anything!
-Suuure. So tell me, where are the ancient vanu?
-Surely they must have... ascended to another plane or dimension! We'll see soon enough
-Riiight, we are done here. Open fire, guys

[Traak]

LOLz

[FastAndFree]

LOLz

For the record, the TR version would of course be:

-Why wo...
-SURRENDER!!!
-Wait, lis...
-SHOOT TO KILL!!!

[Traak]

LOL again. I figure for some players, it would be more like.

Boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom k-shk clack boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom shicka boom k-shk clack

What the heck wuz that?
I dunno. It war kinda parple tho.
Dang, I figger they'll stay off our porch this time though.
Yup, dang techno-reeligious nutjobs.

[Graywolves]

/startsarcasm

ok the Vanu Sovereignty are just fanatical scientists who strongly revere an ancient culture that no one's ever seen. Since neither the NC or the TR would put this ancient race on top of their agenda of things to do after the wormhole collapsed cutting them from civilization or after a bunch of rebels striked up an insurrection against the Terran Republic. All their equipment and uniforms are inspired by this race of people and their technologies.

They're just killing anyone who doesn't believe the Vanu's knowledge that doesn't come first.

/end

To me there's a line between pushing for progress and defecting just to start an empire based entirely on the technologies of an ancient people.

[Xyntech]

A mockup of some recruitment taglines for the three empires:

The Terran Republic needs you! Fight to bring unity, that we may annihilate the traitorous New Conglomerate and the zealots of the Vanu Sovereignty.

Answer the call of the New Conglomerate! Fight for our freedom, to liberate us from the tyranny of the Terran Republic and the dogmatism of the Vanu Sovereignty.

Embrace the glory of the Vanu Sovereignty! Fight in the name of progress, against the stagnation of the Terran Republic and the anarchy of the New Conglomerate.

[Geist]

This falls pretty closeley in line with my idea of each factions views of themselves and others, except for your description of how the VS view the NC.

The way I see it, the VS view the NC as a bunch of directionaless anarchists with no ambition who are just squandering away their lives in a hedonistic pursuit of perpetual self-interest with no concern for the consequences their actions may have on the rest of society.

Kinda like an empire full of 30-year old high school dropouts still living in their mommy's basements and spending all day either playing on their XBox's or surfing p0rn, and going clubbing every night totally sloshed looking for a fix or trying to pick up chix. :D

I think the Vanu are more afraid the NC are heading down a path that leads to a cataclysmic collapse of their empire down into the Dark Ages, and that if left unchecked they'll pull the rest of Humanity down with them.

I suppose that could be right, but I always felt that the VS were not too far from the TR in terms of control, just with a different goal, and they see the NC as a rogue element that may threaten their cause. But, I suppose we'll find out how they really feel come release.

[LordReaver]

A mockup of some recruitment taglines for the three empires:

The Terran Republic needs you! Fight to bring unity, that we may annihilate the traitorous New Conglomerate and the zealots of the Vanu Sovereignty.

Answer the call of the New Conglomerate! Fight for our freedom, to liberate us from the tyranny of the Terran Republic and the dogmatism of the Vanu Sovereignty.

Embrace the glory of the Vanu Sovereignty! Fight in the name of progress, against the stagnation of the Terran Republic and the anarchy of the New Conglomerate.

I also found this on planetsidesyndicate.com (http://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/index.php?title=Empires)

"Tear down the Threat that is Tyranny! Burn it all down and Start Again! We call all able-bodied soldiers to The Frontlines to take up arms against those who would deprive us of our basic freedoms. Do not forgive! Do not forget the History of Oppression that we have endured at the hands of the Terran brutes and the Vanu maniacs! Volunteer Now!"

"Loyalty until Death! Strength in Unity! Order requires law. Law is enforced through deterrence. Deterrence is based on the fear of consequences, and fear is the most powerful motivating force. The separatist groups, the Vanu Sovereignty and the New Conglomerate, will be dismantled through the exercise of forceful deterrence. Dissidents will fear the consequences of their disloyalty. Unity and order will be restored."

"The destiny of the human species tilts toward ruin. Thousands of years of shortsightedness and provincial thinking have hampered its proper evolution. We plunge toward oblivion. Those able to comprehend the promise and potential of humanity will advance. They will usher the less gifted through the gateway of understanding and cleanse the taint of blindness, ignorance and mulishness from the species. We are the shepherds of evolution, the harbingers of progress. We lead toward the light."


I feel I was spot on with this.

The NC seek freedom. To others they create anarchy.
The TR seek stability. To others they create stagnation.
The VS seek religion. To others they create zealotry.

The NC are easy here. It's pretty much based on American ideals.

The TR just want peace and law abiding citizens, which is a damn fine goal, however others see them as creating an environment where change and innovation is impossible.

The VS are the tricky ones. They want to make humanity better at what humanity does, but their problem is similar to what we are nearing in real life. Where does humanity start and end? Most people wouldn't call you a cyborg for having a hearing aid or pacemaker, but how much of your original body do you need before you become a robot? The VS also seem to think that there is some sort of special plane of existence upon achieving said goal.

These are all real life issues, and they were chosen because they clash so well against each other. They are all right and wrong at the same time. The point is not to offer validity to their beliefs, but to understand what they are and how you yourself fit in within these three dominant philosophies.

[Talek Krell]

Part of it may be in how you're defining "religion". Some definitions are fairly vague, and the VS would fit within them. For example:

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.

I would say though that with a definition that broad you could pretty easily include the TR (law and order will preserve us) and NC (freedom and independence are our rights) with the VS (progress and knowledge are our future)

[T-Ray]

Ouch o.O This is written beside the small icon of the Vanu symbol on the new art post (which I found to be extremely interesting, and I love how invested SOE is in its fanbase). Reading this comment made me sad, however, because it shows that the developers of the game see a flaw (or possible "these are the bad guys") mentality toward one of their factions.

It's not a huge deal to me, but it gave me pause, because it was the first time that there has ever been an imbalance of the normal Planetside harmony of "All these factions have a reason to fight, you could empathize with any of them, there are no good guys or bad guys in this war." Calling one of the factions a bunch of nut jobs disrupts that balance. Now, for sure, SOE never said that to "us," what we're reading are notes that they are allowing us to see for the first time, presumably given to their artists for some conceptual focus. However, when the artists and designers have it in their heads that "The Terrans are militaristic, the NC are separatist commandos, and the Vanu are techno-religious nut jobs," some of the inherent disdain might filter down into the design.

I'm not challenging anyone on this, and I'm not too upset, it just caught me off guard (the Vanu having always been my faction). Hell, T-Ray loves the Vanu the MOST, and he's the art director. But I guess I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

Just thought I'd share mine :)

~Zachariah

I wouldnt read too much into that, hell, I bash the TR all the time thats cuz i'm VS for life. The person that said that is most likely a NC or TR lame-o :) We all have a side on the DEV team and we all stick to them. You are right, they are all fighting for what they deem to be right and true (in their minds) it is up to the fans to decide, whos right, and whos wrong



Techo-religious nut job and proud!!!! :)

[T-Ray]

I also found this on planetsidesyndicate.com (http://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/index.php?title=Empires)

"Tear down the Threat that is Tyranny! Burn it all down and Start Again! We call all able-bodied soldiers to The Frontlines to take up arms against those who would deprive us of our basic freedoms. Do not forgive! Do not forget the History of Oppression that we have endured at the hands of the Terran brutes and the Vanu maniacs! Volunteer Now!"

"Loyalty until Death! Strength in Unity! Order requires law. Law is enforced through deterrence. Deterrence is based on the fear of consequences, and fear is the most powerful motivating force. The separatist groups, the Vanu Sovereignty and the New Conglomerate, will be dismantled through the exercise of forceful deterrence. Dissidents will fear the consequences of their disloyalty. Unity and order will be restored."

"The destiny of the human species tilts toward ruin. Thousands of years of shortsightedness and provincial thinking have hampered its proper evolution. We plunge toward oblivion. Those able to comprehend the promise and potential of humanity will advance. They will usher the less gifted through the gateway of understanding and cleanse the taint of blindness, ignorance and mulishness from the species. We are the shepherds of evolution, the harbingers of progress. We lead toward the light."


I feel I was spot on with this.

The NC seek freedom. To others they create anarchy.
The TR seek stability. To others they create stagnation.
The VS seek religion. To others they create zealotry.

The NC are easy here. It's pretty much based on American ideals.

The TR just want peace and law abiding citizens, which is a damn fine goal, however others see them as creating an environment where change and innovation is impossible.

The VS are the tricky ones. They want to make humanity better at what humanity does, but their problem is similar to what we are nearing in real life. Where does humanity start and end? Most people wouldn't call you a cyborg for having a hearing aid or pacemaker, but how much of your original body do you need before you become a robot? The VS also seem to think that there is some sort of special plane of existence upon achieving said goal.

These are all real life issues, and they were chosen because they clash so well against each other. They are all right and wrong at the same time. The point is not to offer validity to their beliefs, but to understand what they are and how you yourself fit in within these three dominant philosophies.

WOW.
that is dead on....good job sir... but the question is..."What set you claimin' fool?"

[LordReaver]

I fight primarily under the banner of the New Conglomeration. Though mostly for the badass sanctuary music and the Vanguard.

[SuperMorto]

I fight primarily under the banner of the New Conglomeration. Though mostly for the badass sanctuary music and the Vanguard.

Logo, and the music is poor!

I'm going to start a new thread bases on this reply!

[Bravix]

VS through and through, I just don't care for the religious nut-job implication to describe ourselves. I'm fine if the TR or NC look at us like that. That'd be great. But it shoudn't be in our official description. Not only is it incorrect (in my opinion), it will defer players from being with us if they have issues with religion.

I read through everything, and I cast my vote with everyone who describes the Vanu as seeking progress. During the cold war, the US was constantly trying to advance their technology. Were they technological religious nutjobs? Or were they trying to simply advance/better themselves and become more powerful.

The closest RL group I can compare the VS to are Nazi's. We seek perfection and the advancement of humans through better understanding Vanu technology. Those who stand in our way will die. Hitler was basically the same way...except the Vanu part.

Damn, I don't like comparing my favorite faction to Nazi's XD


I'd like to think of the VS and NC very similar. But instead of seeking freedom of rights, the Vanu seek freedom to explore the vanu technology in its entirety.

My idea of chain of events:

Terran's iron fist rule cause the NC to break off and rebel. At roughly the same time, those who felt that they discovered Vanu technology was the key to advancement of humankind (scientists and what not for example) broke off so they could do their own thing without the TR controlling them.

TR obviously need to silence the rebellious NC. Though the Vanu aren't rebels in the same sense, they become their own separate entity which is against the TR belief that everyone must unite to survive and prosper.

NC are against TR for obvious reasons. No idea what to say for NC - VS being enemies. I suspect the VS simply find the NC stench revolting.

As someone else said, I think that if LordReaver changed it from seeking Religion to Progress it would be more accurate. They aren't looking for a God. Last I checked, they aren't trying to 'ascend' in the same sense one would in the Stargate series.

[Bags]

The VS are fat.

[Accuser]

The VS are fat.

Your faction can only squeeze into an XXL MAX suit :groovy:

[Talek Krell]

No idea what to say for NC - VS being enemies. I suspect the VS simply find the NC stench revolting.While the VS and NC philosophies aren't diametrically opposed the way that both factions are with the TR, they both rebelled for very different reasons, and they have plenty of cause to fight with each other. I figure it's probably sort of like this:

*Immediately after NC and VS make their last unsuccessful attempt at diplomacy*

I don't understand this Vanu ---- and I don't like it. We just got done puttin up with the TR's bull---- and I am not about to risk being sub-juh-gay-ted by a bunch 'a shineh purple ninnies. We're doin just fine on our own, burn em all.

These .."individuals" are not worth the energy it takes to communicate with them. Their superstitious idiocy is slowing down our research, and educating them would take decades. This is a waste of time. We'll just kill everyone and be done with it.

[Graywolves]

They said they've retconned the lore and made it better.

If someone on the team called them religious, I think they made the empire religious.

[I SandRock]

I think in PS1 they had a religious aspect too. In the sense that they saw the alien artifacts left behind as almost 'divine' and it was borderline worshipping?

I'm fine with that. As in, the VS seek technological advancement and they see the Aliens and thus their technology as superior (beings) who will guide humanity to a better place. So they revere the aliens and their technology.

I'd find it odd if all of a sudden they believe in some new God or something. It has to tie into technology and the alien artifacts for me to be understandable and acceptable.

[LZachariah]

T-Ray responded to my post! And it was ABOUT my beloved Vanu! OMG OMG OMG!

I seriously just feel like I got an autograph from a celebrity.

*dance*

[Traak]

The lack of info about the Vanu is not doing a thing to discourage me from playing Vanu. Quite the opposite.

[Hamma]

I am sure they are going to be a part of at least one of the chapters this week. Perhaps we will find out more about their start.

[Senyu]

The religeon thing is kinda right now that I think about it but I joined Vanu because they were into progress and new tech.

To discover New weapons and New vehicale modifications........to Boldy hover over water where no one has hovered before..........

[I SandRock]

Yeah, though as long as its not a classic kind of religion. Like they pray to a god and expect them to hear his prayers and even answer them. But more like buddism. Where the Alien race that left the ruins and technology behind is Buddah. And they revere them as an enlightened superior species that can bring humanity to new heights and out of ignorance.


As for why the VS fights NC. I always saw it as Technology equals Might. VS, to them, is a wild card. That won't succumb to NC rule. NC's agenda doesn't fit that of the VS either. The VS want to 'break humanity from their chains and guide them to a higher state of existence (evolution through technology)'.


Each side needs to have the possibility of being seen as a bad guy too, so i guess thats where the VS religious nutjobery comes in. From the VS perspective its TR/NC propaganda. To the NC/TR the VS put their faith in some aliens nobody is ever seen and blindly (faith) expect them to somehow bring humanity to a better place (Paradise)

[Xyntech]

I hope that they use the VS in the story in much the same way that having a third empire is used in the game balance.

If it were one side versus one side, at some point either the TR or the NC would gain enough of a temporary upper hand to deal a fatal blow to the other side and bring the conflict to an end.

With the VS, or more specifically, with having three sides in the fight, you end up with a situation where if one side gets pushed back to their foothold, the other two sides will have a lot easier time fighting each other than trying to push into the downed sides foothold (from a story perspective). This would give the beaten side an opportunity to regroup and make a fresh assault, resulting in an ongoing struggle.

Obviously this depends on the three sides distrusting each other to such an extent that the idea of two sides teaming up against the third side would be out of the question. This can be easily explained by the fact that none of them wants to be used as a shield by one side against another, only to be left weakened and vulnerable to attack by their former "allies" after crushing the third party.

[I SandRock]

Well looks like they explain Vanu Religion as I had hoped so i'm still totally cool with being a barney :D


FOR VANU!

[FastAndFree]

Hail Xenu! I mean... Vanu!

Should we be concerned that our leader is getting instructions from a long dead alien? :rolleyes:

[I SandRock]

Hail Xenu! I mean... Vanu!

Should we be concerned that our leader is getting instructions from a long dead alien? :rolleyes:

Hear-say! Is there proof they are dead!? Maybe they became one with the planet! Or maybe they ARE the planet (Eureka Anime? :p) The planet speaks to our glorious leader! All hail god-king Vanu!

Technology leads to progress
Progress leads to understanding
Understanding leads to peace
Peace leads to evolution
Through evolution my chains are broken.

Vanu shall set me free!


:lol:

[MadPenguin]

Should we be concerned that our leader is getting instructions from a long dead alien?

Not when these instructions led to the discovery of rebirth, i'd say its about time we gave people the choice of joining us or getting F***** up. In game that is, not in real life :)
Either way, im happy to be a techno-religious nut job, sounds like fun

[Geist]

As long as your getting results, I suppose I can understand a bunch of (probably) atheist scientists becoming zealots of a new religion. Kind of hard to argue with results like that.

[FastAndFree]

Also if they really hear a disembodied voice or get psychic visions...
Why would they doubt their alien god-king-emperor. Even after what happened to Briggs

[MadPenguin]

Of course i guess its possible that the chairman guy (cant remember his name) just happaned to be a crazy genius who hears voices in his head and discovered rebirth via his own merit. And now has all of us believing we should go to war because the voices in his head told him so. God its great to be VS. :)

[Raymac]

Of course i guess its possible that the chairman guy (cant remember his name) just happaned to be a crazy genius who hears voices in his head and discovered rebirth via his own merit. And now has all of us believing we should go to war because the voices in his head told him so. God its great to be VS. :)

True. If Einstein said some alien ghost actually told him about relativity, we may have a techno-religious cult today. I mean we already have nut jobs saying aliens telepathically talk to them. They just haven't been right about anything yet. But if 1 of those guys stumbled upon a huge technological breakthrough...yeah it would be a real life VS.

[Saerain]

Sorry for the slight necro, but this has been bothering me. I just can't get a handle on what they mean by religious, here.

To me, religion necessarily rests on faith, and faith is belief without evidence. What's lacking evidence here? That the Vanu existed? No, they're standing on mountains of evidence. That technological progress is good? Please.

If there's some kind of religion in the Vanu Sovereignty about how some guy back on Earth prophesied that this would happen, or that this apparently dead race will some day come back to uplift them, then whoop-de-do, but how that makes the Sovereignty itself religious, from what we know about it, is beyond me. That's about as acrobatic as saying vegetarians are religious because of what the Jains believe.

Let's just say that if we dug up Elohim spacecraft, ray guns, and data logs, it would be pretty odd for our currently perfectly rational disregard of Raëlism to continue.

It's certainly possible that SOE has revamped the VS in a way that is religious, I'm just saying that from what we do already know, it seems like a bizarre description.

[Captain1nsaneo]

Don't take it seriously Saerain, it's just the NC and TR looking for some way cover up that they're jealous of our awesome weapons and hover tanks.

But you are indeed correct on the technicalities.

[Saerain]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5730951/Images/vsglitch.gif

Sorry, I blacked out there for a second.

[Xyntech]

My only problem is how that's the way the VS are described in a more general way. To me, that should just be how the other two empires see the VS, not how the VS portray themselves or how they necessarily really are.

Call the NC terrorists, not freedom fighters, if that's how it's going to be.

[Coreldan]

My only problem is how that's the way the VS are described in a more general way. To me, that should just be how the other two empires see the VS, not how the VS portray themselves or how they necessarily really are.

Call the NC terrorists, not freedom fighters, if that's how it's going to be.

I believe some media outlet did generally mark NC as terrorists. Given, it wasn't an official statement or anything, but I really feel your pain on this one.

I got really pissed off at being marked as a terrorist on a website like that. I don't mind if some TR or VS scumbag thinks I'm a terrorist, but when someone is sorta previewing a game and in general says that my faction is full of terrorists, thats wrong!

[Captain1nsaneo]

You guys do have a pension for blowing yourselves up though...
Right after you bail from an aircraft.

[Coreldan]

You guys do have a pension for blowing yourselves up though...
Right after you bail from an aircraft.

Luckily I never fly myself :D

Well, occasionally Gal and Liberator.

[Canaris]

I believe some media outlet did generally mark NC as terrorists. Given, it wasn't an official statement or anything, but I really feel your pain on this one.

I got really pissed off at being marked as a terrorist on a website like that. I don't mind if some TR or VS scumbag thinks I'm a terrorist, but when someone is sorta previewing a game and in general says that my faction is full of terrorists, thats wrong!

You are a bunch of filthy terrorists! :D

[Erendil]

Sorry for the slight necro, but this has been bothering me. I just can't get a handle on what they mean by religious, here.

To me, religion necessarily rests on faith, and faith is belief without evidence. What's lacking evidence here? That the Vanu existed? No, they're standing on mountains of evidence. That technological progress is good? Please.

If there's some kind of religion in the Vanu Sovereignty about how some guy back on Earth prophesied that this would happen, or that this apparently dead race will some day come back to uplift them, then whoop-de-do, but how that makes the Sovereignty itself religious, from what we know about it, is beyond me. That's about as acrobatic as saying vegetarians are religious because of what the Jains believe.

Let's just say that if we dug up Elohim spacecraft, ray guns, and data logs, it would be pretty odd for our currently perfectly rational disregard of Raëlism to continue.

It's certainly possible that SOE has revamped the VS in a way that is religious, I'm just saying that from what we do already know, it seems like a bizarre description.

I think a big reason this came about is many VS detractors heard that a few VS were hearing the voice of Vanu "in their head," and given how the vast majority of 20th century media has portrayed such experiences it's no surprise that they latched onto the idea that the VS must think they are talking to God and so they must be crazy.

They seem to have concluded that it must be a religious experience whilst discounting the very real possibility that it was instead technologically-based telepathic communication.

[Canaris]

I think a big reason this came about is many VS detractors heard that a few VS were hearing the voice of Vanu "in their head," and given how the vast majority of 20th century media has portrayed such experiences it's no surprise that they latched onto the idea that the VS must think they are talking to God and so they must be crazy.

They seem to have concluded that it must be a religious experience whilst discounting the very real possibility that it was instead technologically-based telepathic communication.

That's wrong too, none of the TR believed you were talking to "God", we knew you were talking to a long dead Alien that demanded all sorts of zealotry and preaching and self mutilation, it says so in your manifesto pamphlets you handed out. It ain't religion you got it was brain washing pure and simple. You are doing the bidding of some crazed echo, that should have stayed buried.

[Captain1nsaneo]

That's wrong too, none of the TR believed you were talking to "God", we knew you were talking to a long dead Alien that demanded all sorts of zealotry and preaching and self mutilation, it says so in your manifesto pamphlets you handed out. It ain't religion you got it was brain washing pure and simple. You are doing the bidding of some crazed echo, that should have stayed buried.

You're just jealous that you don't have a dead elder god giving you orders. You just have normal people! We've got fishmen!

[Xyntech]

You are doing the bidding of some crazed echo, that should have stayed buried.

Y'all can just give us back our Vanu rebirthing technology if that's how you feel about it :D

[Revanant]

Here's how I see the current conflict, as informed by the backstories that we've seen for PS2. As always, here's a wall of text :groovy::

The TR were an answer to humanity when they were on a path to self-annihilation. There had been a nuclear holocaust, and the world was driving itself into the grave. The world had lost more than half of its total population long before the TR came into existence, and it still couldn't help but keep war alive.

The TR step in during the worst moment in Earth's history, and rescue it. The TR government is a compromise that eliminates nationalism and places everyone under a single law--bolstered by a dedication to transparancy and accountability. It is a consensus government for the entire world, it allows for many civil liberties, and it works. Earth recovers from its devastation, and creates a peaceful society far more prosperous than any society that existed before the cataclysm.

The TR is founded on the notion that nobody is above the law, and that unity is absolutely necessary. They believe these things because they see them as safeguards--without unity and order, there is nothing to stop the world into devolving into another cataclysmic war. Factionalism is the enemy, and it is more dangerous than the ultimate doomsday device. Whatever the TR do, nothing could be as bad as the specter of war they are keeping us safe from.

The NC know their history. They appreciate how important the TR was when the world was tearing itself apart. But absolute power corrupts, and while the TR was once an open government that respected freedom, the current government doesn't have the same priorities. The NC see the the regulations and restrictions that are being implemented daily in the name of unity and security, and they are skeptical. They see what happens to those who voice disagreement, and they are horrified by the draconian crackdowns on "dissent." They see the TR, and they see a wolf in sheep's clothing. The NC know that humanity didn't always live under one government, and while it's true that ultimately the world devolved into an apocalypse, it lasted pretty well for thousands of years despite nations and factionalism.

To the NC, the TR is so repressive that ANYTHING would be better. They are willing to tear the system down, to "burn it all and start anew," because even in the worst case, the instability that would result isn't as bad as the totalitarian domination being pushed by the TR. No matter what comes next, the TR is too rotten to remain in place.

The VS aren't political, at least not in the classic sense. They see the danger of the TR's totalitarianism, but they aren't radical freedom fighters. The VS are smart--they see the NC and are appalled by the short-sightedness of the NC's aims. The VS know that every action has a consequence, and some consequences are unforseen. Revolutions are radical, and once they are set in motion, it's impossible to know how they'll end up. The Russian revolution led to eighty years of totalitarian communism. The French revolution led to a reign of terror and an imperial dictatorship. The NC, for all their idealistic drivel, are revolutionary radicals too short-cited to realize they are playing with fire.

The VS see things long-term. They look at human history, and they see an endless cycle of self-destruction. Humanity can't survive if it can't find a way to break the pattern. The VS know that there are other perspectives out there--perspectives with much wisdom and knowledge to share. The VS know that humanity is behind the eight-ball--other societies exist, and if the Vanu are any indication, they may have technology that humanity can't contend with. If man is to survive, he must find a way to even the technological playing field. He also has to stop fighting himself. These are the two tenets that the VS hold dear. While they don't want a revolution--they will go to war to save us from ourselves.


Why do the VS and NC fight?

When the TR look at the VS, they see factionalism. When the NC look at the VS, they see a militarized group that have pursued advanced technology and are attempting to exert political and physical control of Auraxis. The VS are conquering settements and bases, churning out weapons, and fielding troops. They aren't democratic, and they seem motivated by an apocalyptic notion that humanity is caught in a ruinous, self-destructive cycle that has to be broken. The VS have gone to war on a vision--a prophecy of sorts--and the things they are doing to "evolve" humanity... The VS are putting lives on the line to shape the future of humanity in accordance with their views.

It's not a vision that the NC share.

[Graywolves]

Well....when you jump on the faith that someone is hearing voices from Vanu...yes...

When you hold faith that the path of dedicating everything to uncovering and using an ancient civilization's technology and forcing everyone else to comply with your views and that this is the ultimate correct path for humanity.....yes...


Everyone has faith everyday. You may not know it but you require faith that this reality is real, that what you percieve is correct and that what others communicate they percieve (who may not exist at all) is also correct.

That many things, even without a control or a real scientific experiment....are in fact science. That with no control and no true observation, that it is all correct.

Then you get in to the quantum world where things actually behave differently just because you're observing them....





And back on track.....

Faith that your ideal is better than the ideal of unity and total individual freedoms.

[sylphaen]

Nice post Revanant.

To add to the discussion, in PS1, the VS were religious already. Maybe the technology part stuck better because all our tools were based on that technology.

But yeah... Our command structure has religious aspects.

[Canaris]

Y'all can just give us back our Vanu rebirthing technology if that's how you feel about it :D

You don't give back presents, that's poor etiquette :D

[Graywolves]

You don't give back presents, that's poor etiquette :D

We're not indian givers!