Flares for aircraft?

[Jownzorz]

There is nothing more I wanted in PS1 than to drop flares as I was being locked on by a VS/NC max (then of course hiding behind a mountain and the missles still kill me). Opinions? I feel its a necessary defense for aircraft to have. Obviously not something they could spam, long cool down to make sure they used it only when they REALLY need to.

[SgtMAD]

well seeing how none of the A/A in PS1 was heat seeking and I don't see anything about any of that in PS2 there is no reason to add flares.

what would work is chaff but modelling all that might be a huge pain in the ass

[Talek Krell]

I desperately wanted flares right up until I realized that I was just doing it wrong. No support for "get out of jail free" cards from me. You could probably massage the idea until it fits well, but I think they can build a perfectly workable game without it.

[Baron]

I like the idea of countermeasures for aircraft.

I believe that was the intention of the OP...flares may not "make sense" with the missile tracking technology, but you could launch a variety of other things like electronic, highly reflective shards, etc...

[Bags]

Use the terrain like a good pilot.

[Sirisian]

I'd prefer if these were like resource only upgrades among many choices. This goes with my "the only AA a tank should have is flak cannons like energy or normal versions that are identical". This allows you to easily say "I want to equip a flak disruptor" that when activated would early detonate flak. Then another for like flares for missiles (either conventional or energy based) that generate fake targets for the missiles. The missiles would destroy the flair when it hit it.

This opens up the option if you save up a lot you can upgrade a plane with a lot of features to make it more formidable. While another person would see "flak warning!" or "missile lock" and give up the person that saved up their resources and purchased those upgrades would have a slight advantage.

However, this has been mentioned a lot already that if SOE sells resources for money then such a system results in buying power. So it's important for SOE to set it up so that certain things can't be purchased or not sell resources for such a system to work.

[Traak]

How about deployable T-Rex's.

LOL, seriously, let's not overdo the planes.

[FIREk]

I'm pretty sure there won't be any fire-and-forget weapons in PS2. Most likely dumb-fire and wire/laser-guided only, like in BFBC2, to promote aim instead of press X to win. And similar across all empires, instead of the forced differences in PS1's AV weaponry.

[FastAndFree]

I desperately wanted flares right up until I realized that I was just doing it wrong. No support for "get out of jail free" cards from me. You could probably massage the idea until it fits well, but I think they can build a perfectly workable game without it.

And yet the afterburner is alredy pretty much a get out of jail card :rolleyes:

[Talek Krell]

I consider the afterburner to be more of a "run like hell for a set duration" card. You could buy time, and maybe get to a safer place, but ultimately you still had to maneuver and use the terrain to get away.

[FastAndFree]

I consider the afterburner to be more of a "run like hell for a set duration" card. You could buy time, and maybe get to a safer place, but ultimately you still had to maneuver and use the terrain to get away.

Okay but consider this, afterburners basically makes you invulnerable to AA until your bar runs out. You have that much time to find some cover (works fine except against sparrow missiles. Ugh. I hate sparrow missiles)

Flares on the other hand would allow you/give you the chance to evade a single salvo of missiles. And would not help you get behind cover fast

Then again if you had both... Yeah AA wouldn't like that. Not one bit

[NewSith]

You know, the whole thing here depends on a point of view. In the sky they say "AA IS OP!", on the ground they say "BUFF THE AA!". So I shouldn't really suggest anything until we see beta (at least).

[DviddLeff]

I really want flares for aircraft; as long as they are weaker overall.

Although primarily I want them because they are damned cool:

http://www.britishskytours.com/images/C%2017%20FLARES.jpg

[Tiberius]

They would be cool if done right. Most air kills are from direct fire anyway.

Each plane, depending on its size could have a certain amount you could reload at an air term.

[Talek Krell]

Okay but consider this, afterburners basically makes you invulnerable to AA until your bar runs out.I want you to experiment with that theory while charging a burster MAX and tell me how it works out :p. Even with missiles you have to make sure they won't intercept you, although I admit I haven't been on the wrong end of a starfire very often.

I think we may have both missed an important point though. With an Afterburner you're choosing when to abandon whatever you're trying to do and run. With countermeasures you're just deciding when to hit the "be invincible" switch, which doesn't necessarily interrupt you.

[FastAndFree]

Well, Higby just posted a tweet in the Mosquito thread (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showpost.php?p=595157&postcount=15) and mentioned that we will be able to fit "countermeasures, radar dampening, etc."

[Raymac]

I've always liked the idea of aircaft having counter-measures, partially because modern military aircraft tend to have them. I'd want them to be extremely limited though. Like 1 use and you are out. That way you have to decide, "do I need to use it now? Is afterburning away better? Is there terrain nearby?"

Also, I wouldn't want the countermeasures to work every time. Bad analogy, but I'd like them to be like the movie Hunt for Red October where they would work if you timed it right and manuevered just right, but even then you are crossing your fingers. I don't really like the idea of a dice roll, but I'm sure with the magic of Foreglight, they could have some mechanic for it.

In PS1 now, afterburners are a countermeasure. If you have full afterburners, AA is not going to kill you. Another aircraft might, but AA won't...unless you get greedy and stick around in a hot area too long.

[Talek Krell]

My only worry is some forms of ground AA being rendered a little UP, but it's all in the balance. Yes to what Raymac said though, hopefully there will be a fair amount of skill involved in their use.

Edit: Dying to know more about "radar dampening". How sensors work is one of the things they've given us no info on so far.

[Sirisian]

Edit: Dying to know more about "radar dampening". How sensors work is one of the things they've given us no info on so far.
The original game had a radar to see things on. I assume what they mean is you can equip something that creates "stealth" as in you don't show up on the radar.

[Captain B]

I think what people should also consider is what may need to be sacrificed for countermeasures? You may lose AV/AA abilities for better defenses (countermeasures). Personally, if the countermeasures didn't work often and accurately, they wouldn't get used in such a case where you give up firepower/offense for added protection.

[Talek Krell]

The original game had a radar to see things on. I assume what they mean is you can equip something that creates "stealth" as in you don't show up on the radar.Yes thank you. You have solved all of the mysteries. :rolleyes:
Now we just need to fill in the little details like what sort of infantry/vehicles/deployables/structures it will broadcast from, what sort of range it will have, whether it will be affected by terrain or weather, how exactly the game will decide whether something has been detected, how modules/implants/object properties will affect that decision, and whether the information gathered by radar will perhaps be uploaded to the empire in some way so that it can be used to evaluate and plan.

[Grimster]

Well my honest opinion even though I primarily stood on the ground in my AA MAX I did spend some time in the skies as a Reaver pilot and I rarely got shot down. It takes some skill but you can avoid the AA pretty good as a pilot with the help of the terrain and your afterburners.

I think many might easily get to focused on their targets instead of also trying to keep track of their surroundings. I always plot a escape route before I enter a situation and that route usually consisted of obstacles for the AA to hit instead of me. :)

Those times I didn't do this properly I usually got shot down.

Ridges for example make excellent cover and having one close by which you can duck down behind with relative ease, is a safe ticket to staying alive. :)

[Aractain]

You guys seem to view flares/countermeasures as a 100% counter to seeker missiles. They usualy are a chance to fool a missile but are useless against flak/direct fire.

If they designed it well, overlaping direct fire, flak and missile AA will be the most effective and require multiple people working together.

[Baron]

Ridges for example make excellent cover and having one close by which you can duck down behind with relative ease, is a safe ticket to staying alive. :)


You sir, have never flown against a Sparrow MAX before ;) Terrain for cover? HA!

[Grimster]

You sir, have never flown against a Sparrow MAX before ;) Terrain for cover? HA!


Well that is true. since I basically only played NC apart from doing some grunting on a US server as VS.

So yeah I might be a bit biased. :D

[Redshift]

You know, the whole thing here depends on a point of view. In the sky they say "AA IS OP!", on the ground they say "BUFF THE AA!". So I shouldn't really suggest anything until we see beta (at least).

I'd like to see AA buffed so it's more leathal, i'd then like to see chaff and flares given to aircraft.
Meaning people who know how to use the countermeasures will survive and nubs will get slaughtered.
I'd also make the flares/chaff just reduce the hit chance of the missles, so their working or not has some luck involved, so they're not just IWIN buttons.

[Redshift]

Well that is true. since I basically only played NC apart from doing some grunting on a US server as VS.

So yeah I might be a bit biased. :D

yes if a sparrow got a clip off at you you were dead or dying soon regardless of what you did

[Aractain]

Thats why you bailed on them and uesd decis.

[Grimster]

yes if a sparrow got a clip off at you you were dead or dying soon regardless of what you did

Couldn't say really but if you didn't get your act together then if you managed to get spotted by a Burster you wouldn't know what hit you until you were dead. :)

[Redshift]

Couldn't say really but if you didn't get your act together then if you managed to get spotted by a Burster you wouldn't know what hit you until you were dead. :)

If you flew in a straight line yes, but any erratic movements or direction changes gave you a decent chance of avoiding it unless you were point blank. With the starfire, you could avoid it with terrain, the sparrow though you couldn't dodge reliably.

[Talek Krell]

If you flew in a straight line yes, but any erratic movements or direction changes gave you a decent chance of avoiding it unless you were point blank. With the starfire, you could avoid it with terrain, the sparrow though you couldn't dodge reliably.The trick is to fly low and then to put something between you and the origin point. Even a base wall is sufficient, but I always loved forests for that purpose. Duck into one of those and most of that clip is going to end up embedded in the 'ol concrete trees. You might take one or two shots but the only way to avoid that is to not take off. I got good enough at weaving through trees that I could usually lose mosquitoes with the same method. :D

Edit: It occurs to me that I fly a Lib though, which may color my view somewhat.

[Captain B]

With hit locations on armor (and I assume aircraft, too) plus gameplay being "faster" (more damage and/or less health), I think planes are gonna' get shot down a whole lot easier. No more fly in, shoot some infantry up, take some hits, fly off with a Reaver; I have a feeling air will have to constantly stay mobile or get dropped extremely quickly this time around.

[Traak]

yes if a sparrow got a clip off at you you were dead or dying soon regardless of what you did

Unless you bailed with your HA weapon :rolleyes:

BTW, if you bail in a cloud of flak, you should get shredded instantly.

[Traak]

I would like to see some Flak 88s or similar. Sexiest multipurpose artillery piece ever.

[Redshift]

Unless you bailed with your HA weapon :rolleyes:

BTW, if you bail in a cloud of flak, you should get shredded instantly.

i assume they'll remove bailing this time, or at least not let heavies fly planes

[Talek Krell]

They've confirmed bailing is still in. Not sure about the rest of it. I've got the impression they want to tamp down on the HA surgile thing, not sure exactly how though.

[Captain B]

They did mention you can drive in anything but heavy armor (no heavy assault/MAX), and that you'd need heavy armor for the big weapons (no agiles running around with chainguns?). Maybe you'll need a jumppack to bail??