How do you like the new Liberator?

[FIREk]

I'm very curious about your opinions on the new Liberator's design.

Personally, I like the overall concept - the wings, tail, the overall bulky fuselage. I even like the wide-ass bottom part, as it reminds me of a C-130 and naval transport choppers like the Sea Stallion.

What I don't like is how the canopies are so vertical (I would prefer them a lot more sloped) and the "hump" section (I would just cut it out, leave everything at tail level, then move the top canopy down and forward, towards the front canopy).

Either the angle of the render makes the Lib look extremely veritcal, or it's extremely vertical and the top section (everything above the wings) might benefit from being moved down some. This would make the Lib look more like a bomber than a Clone Trooper dropship. Plus, the design would better fit possible sidegrade/customization options, like making it a dive-bomber/tank-killer (the equivalent of PS1's Vulture).

What do you think? Is there anyone here who flat-out loves the new Lib? Hopefully I'm the only one who doesn't know if want. ;)

[Bags]

It's... nice. And something.

Looks more like a galaxy tbh.

[Talek Krell]

I'm with the OP. I like the design concept but it looks a little taller than it should. As it is now I'm worried that I'm going to try to pull my old "flying under the walkways" trick and end up getting the damn thing stuck:rolleyes:. It may just be the angle we're seeing it at but that section above the wings, especially the segment for the second cockpit, seems like it ought to be lowered and smoothed a bit to make the design look a little sleeker.

I still have not figured out that "inflatable raft" thing at the bottom. You can see the gear there, and if they're that size then they don't need nearly that much space to retract. The thing doesn't mesh with the fuselage either, it's almost like it was superglued on at the last minute...

[FIREk]

I suppose the thing at the bottom is related to the Lib's bomb compartment, or is just derived from many transport aircraft and helicopters as "an interesting thing to add".

Interestingly enough, here is what looks like concept art for PS1's Liberator:
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/art_Liberator.jpg

Originally the top was supposed to be pretty flat, but it ended up with a hump. The new Liberator's hump section may be a homage to the actual in-game model:
http://images.wikia.com/egamia/images/1/12/PlanetSide_Liberator_bomber_followed_by_a_Lodestar _vehicle_transport.jpg

I wouldn't mind the PS2's Lib having the huge, sloped front canopy. I always found it cool that you could see the pilot's whole body through the glass.

For reference, here is the new Lib, so you don't have to switch tabs/windows:
http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/main/psnext/artlink02.jpg

[Traak]

If it has wheels, that implies rolling takeoffs. And, my bet is that the front glass is for the bombardier, as per real bombers, such as the B17.

[FIREk]

If it has wheels, that implies rolling takeoffs.

It would make some sense, assuming the devs don't want it to be able to hover and spam towers with bombs. It does have VTOL engines, though, so rolling takeoffs are doubtful.
Plus, think about having to put runways on the map, not to mention making different vehicle pads that would facilitate a rolling takeoff.
I think the wheels are just for show.

And, my bet is that the front glass is for the bombardier, as per real bombers, such as the B17.

I assumed as much meself. ;)

[Traak]

Oh, and I want Klieg lights for night defense of SOI's. Spot them bombers pronto!

[Talek Krell]

If it has wheels, that implies rolling takeoffs.
I will respond to you in much the same way I responded to my friend who had the same idea.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=blackhawk+helicopter&num=10&hl=en&gbv=2&biw=1280&bih=861&tbm=isch&tbnid=rt769FbaHiAd0M:&imgrefurl=http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/air/rotary/sh60.html&docid=m1LEvgPVlwPKOM&w=757&h=504&ei=QmiDTowrouSxAt_V0JoP&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=793&vpy=196&dur=2306&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=159&ty=79&sqi=2&page=1&tbnh=144&tbnw=194&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0:p

[Malorn]

Lib piloting was my favorite thing in PS. Needs to be slimmer, looks too tall and fat. If I wanted to fly an elephant I'd be a gal pilot.

[Sirisian]

Since I plan to be bombing a lot I feel the bottom needs to go. I'd prefer to keep the "fat" look but make it more streamlined so it looks like something that can drop out of the sky and dive bomb a target. Not something just lazily dropping bombs from the max height.

Also I want the tail gunner to also have rockets when they don't have anything to shoot with the tailgun. Then the secondary gunner can switch to viewing forward and the tailgun position at any time.</pipe dream>

Also via the power of the stamp tool my dream lib (could use some fixes. I want to land on the wings not the bottom).
http://sirisian.com/pictures/avatarlib.png

[FastAndFree]

That bottom looks kinda weird, but I absolutely love all the winglets and the little flaps on the trailing edges

[NewSith]

The new lib looks like another perversion by kamov design bureau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov).

EDIT: The original lib was of the most genuine design. I want it back.

[FIREk]

Also via the power of the stamp tool my dream lib (could use some fixes. I want to land on the wings not the bottom).
http://sirisian.com/pictures/avatarlib.png

I think I may be in love. :) Can you show us how it would look like without the flat bottom section cut off, though?

I don't know how time-consuming it is, but could you try making another Lib "redo" by flattening the "hump" and moving the two canopies closer together, without merging them? Making the front of the top canopy more sloped would be great too. ;)

Unfortunately the only editing tool I have at hand is Paint, and I would have to learn GIMP from scratch... :<

[Hamma]

I like the way it looks originally - looks more bomberish ;)

[DviddLeff]

I really like the new design; looks bloody ugly and dangerous.

[Death2All]

It looks fat and stupid.

The Magrider looks like an Oyster.

Mosquito is okay.
$0.02 USD

[CrystalViolet]

I like it. The ugliness adds a sense of functional authenticity to the design of the airframe. Just like the real world, if you want to fly something sexy, get yourself a fighter.

[FastAndFree]

But it breaks my heart how awesome it looks without that... upside-down tub thing at the bottom

Admittedly even more so with the cockpits merged in the front. Sirisian deserves an award for that

[Malorn]

I really like Sirisian's modifications. Looks much more like the original lib and definitely sleeker.

[kaffis]

I like the distinct cockpits. It's the kind of thing that recalls to me our old boarding animations and seat icons on the ground. Having two cockpits makes(would have made) it easier to line up on the right one.

I also like it because it evokes classic WWII era bombers, which is a good thing to me.

[Tiberius]

Cut the additional flaps. It looks like it has two F-18 Hornets attached to the end of the wings lol.

[Talek Krell]

Our disagreement over crew member function aside, Sirisian 'shops a damn good Lib.

[Pillow]

I dont like the new looks of the liberator it looks more like an albartoss seaplane than a bomber and it resembles the galaxy too much.
I wish it was abit sleeker like Sirians modification or more like the orginal lib :p

[Raymac]

My jaw dropped when I saw it. I love it.

One thing that I think would be cool is if the top seat would be for the pilot and the bottom seat would be for the bomber like a B-25. Thats just a personal preference though.

The whole thing looks like a love-child of a Hind, B-25, and an LAAT from Star Wars Clone Wars.

[LordReaver]

I like it. The ugliness adds a sense of functional authenticity to the design of the airframe. Just like the real world, if you want to fly something sexy, get yourself a fighter.

Exactly, it's a fucking ugly aircraft, but it's a good ugly.

There are a lot of aircraft in real life that look far.. far.. more ugly by comparison.

[Grimster]

To be honest I thought it was kind of ugly at first but after looking at it a couple of more times it kind of grew on me.


I like it. :)

[millo]

So far it's the only model I -really- don't like. Way too tall and fat, looks more like a transport helicopter than a bomber, i really can't picture myself flying that thing nose in the dirt to bust some tanks (will it even fit under a walkway?). I'm praying it's just the NC that gets the fugly skin, and we TR get something sleek looking, more A-10 like.

I spent like 90% of my playtime in planetside 1 either flying a lib/vulture or gunning my friend's prowler... Last news and pics we got were pretty bad to me :(

Thanks god the mossie is extra-awesome, hope we can reconfigure it on a two seater gunship.

[Aractain]

Can someone explain the trolly bit to me? Other than that bit I love it. but why the fat bit? B52s arn't fat.


http://sirisian.com/pictures/avatarlib.png

If this was a heavy gunship varient that would = Love.

Here is a version thats a bit thinner.. with some extra bombs... cos I love bombs. I like this ome better, the trolly just looks out of place to me.

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/8330/thinlib.jpg

[DOUBLEXBAUGH]

Edit - nm, question answered in another thread

[moosepoop]

not square enough. i want a giant flying rectangle.

[millo]

I think this is where the "washtub" came from, by the way

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/Apachefarnborough2006frontv.jpg

Could see the new lib as a gunship with that design and size, by the way. As someone already said, the whole thing screams "Hind".

[Aractain]

Good point about the apache, but somehow it dosn't seem... fat.

I did a (bad) version with more angular surfaces on the trolly.

http://oi51.tinypic.com/dww1t.jpg

[FIREk]

Good point about the apache, but somehow it dosn't seem... fat.

I did a (bad) version with more angular surfaces on the trolly.

http://oi51.tinypic.com/dww1t.jpg

Could you try flattening the "hump" and making the top canopy lower, and more sloped?

[Talek Krell]

Could see the new lib as a gunship with that design and size, by the way. As someone already said, the whole thing screams "Hind".I could too, actually. The fat bits look relatively sensible if the thing is intended to spend most of it's time hovering, so as part of a gunship (or a light air transport) setup I wouldn't mind it at all. I wouldn't dare risk hoping that the Lib got such cool gear though.

[Malorn]

It would be interesting if the Lib was more like a Bomber-Gunship hybrid. It would certainly fit the look of it.

Looks as though there is a weapon point on the nose of the gun. Could be a turret for air-to-ground support. The bombardier would have the nose turret for support when there weren't targets lined up to bomb.

I would expect the lib to have different variants and upgrades also. Some possibilities for Liberator varients with that design.

Bomb-Bay Options:
- Cargo: Troop transport - replace the bomb-bay weapon entirely with a cargo hold for a small number of infantry and maybe a MAX. This would fill the role of "light air transport" that myself and others had discussed. Sort of like the Star Wars troop transport that it resembles.
- Bombs: Cluster for Anti-infantry
- Bombs: Anti-Tank Mines (instant-minefield)
- Bombs: Tank-busters, drops fewer than the cluster but does tons of damage to armor and hits them on the top where armor is weaker.
- Bombs: EMP (disables vehicles and implants, blows up mines, disorients infantry)
- Empire-Specific Air-to-Ground Anti-tank weapon.

Empire-Specific Weapon options
- Striker Barrage: Lock-on. Imagine a set of missile dropping out of the bottom and then firing towards a target which the bombardier locked-onto. Not an instant-lock, more like the Stinger from BF3 - the gunner must maintain the lock for several seconds before it is ready to fire. TR-specific.
- Heavy Phoenix: A single missile drops down and becomes Camera-guided. Less DPS than the striker but does tons of damage. As above, only camera-guided. NC-specific.
- Heavy Lancer: A pair of constant-beam lasers deployed down from the bomb-bay. Does more damage the longer it is on target (like the Warp-Ray from StarCraft 2). Bombadier has to hold it on-target.

(All of these have the common theme that the gunner must hold or maintain the target in order to hit them/ do heavy damage).

Front-Turret Options
- AI cannon, fires explosive rounds that has significant AoE effect so near-misses still do damage. Can suppress groups of infantry by bombarding the area with grenades (like the gunship cannon in the battlefield games).
- AV cannon, fires heavy armor-penetrating rounds, no AoE so it is less effective against infantry but does more damage to vehicles (like the original liberator nose gun)
- EMP cannon, fires little EMP bursts to disable vehicles, disorient infantry, or clear minefields.
- Plasma cannon, fires plasma discharges at a slow RoF but the plasma burns the area for a bit making it unsafe for infantry and vehicles alike. Low initial damage, used for suppression and area-denial. (think the Radiator only a lot more damage)


Tailgun options:
- machinegun (base 'free' weapon)
- machinegun + lock-on missile (upgrade for more air-to-air defense)
- flak gun (super upgrade)

I always felt that Planetside was missing a true gunship and mixing the Lib with a gunship and performing both bomber and air-to-ground VTOL support like a classic gunship would fill the role.

Pros:
- gives the bombardier something to do *all the time* not just when bombs are lined up since they have control over the forward gun.
- nosegun is far more effective on a front turret
- fills the role of bomber, gunship, and light air transport in a single vehicle
- lots of configuration options for this gunship
- upgrades give tailgun real value and effective AA defense.

Cons:
- pilot no longer has a nosegun, though it is possible the pilot could be given something else. I don't see a pilot gun as necessary on this vehicle. I would like to see the pilot given countermeasures against lock-on-weaponry.

[Talek Krell]

Changing it wouldn't be much of a modification but it doesn't look like that attachment on the nose can rotate to the sides, which suggests to me that they intend for the pilot to have a nosegun.

- Heavy Lancer: A pair of constant-beam lasers deployed down from the bomb-bay. Does more damage the longer it is on target (like the Warp-Ray from StarCraft 2). Bombadier has to hold it on-target.
Oh god yes.

[Malorn]

I can see the front turret pivoting left/right, if you view it as having a mounting oint from the top and/or bottom. It spins left/right and then the guns in the turret have the up/down tracking.

Sort of like this:
http://static.flickr.com/2667/3946986716_5e43d0b747_z.jpg

[Talek Krell]

Hm. I had thought it was a fixed drum (like a barrel on it's side). Looking at that picture though it may be a turret after all, and the back edge looks rounded that way due to the angle. Could use some more viewpoints on this thing...

[BorisBlade]

Not a fan of it at all, looks like one of those helicopters they use for heavy lifting, not at all like a bomber, its waaaay too vertical. I do like Sirisans version, it actually looks like a bomber.

[dm Akolyte]

The wings are angled to far down. They should stick out more directly to the side.

[millo]

The chin pod looks a lot like a FLIR to me... Probably it's modular and can be swapped on the fly with a 30mm chaingun/rocket pod/racoon launcher according to your spec.

Love malorn ideas, but i'd prefer a dedicated gunship and a strafe bomber being separate vehicles... Old liberator was perfect as it was in concept, in my opinion, it just needed the tailgun and the bombing bay being operated by the same person (and that just because it was a pain in the ass finding a tailgunner, when my usual buddies wasn't online i made it my personal mission to tailgun for everyone i could just out of empathy :D)

[Missundaztood]

The TR look USA, the NC Russian, the VS f*** knows!

[Captain B]

The NC... RUSSIAN??? Son you done gone and lost yo' damn mind!

[Raymac]

I'm really a big fan of the tall design of this thing. I think if you start to streamline it more, it will lose that unique profile and feel too...generic. I mean we have an older shot of the Reaver, and you don't want the Lib to look too much like the Reaver. I really really like these vehicles being distinct even from a distance. Maybe it's just the Star Wars fan in me, but giving it whispers of the LAAT from Clone Wars is really badass IMHO.