VideoGamer.com Interviews Matt Higby

[Hamma]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/news-videogamercom-interviews-matt-higby-2559.htm

[Grimster]

Not much new there but still nice to see the exposure for Planetside 2. :)

[Azren]

MH: We have a shop, so there are microtransactions. One of our key goals with microtransactions is never exclusively sell power. We will never allow you to buy an item that gives you more power. We want to make sure that the stuff that's available in the store is also available through gameplay. The store is a way to maybe bypass spending a lot of time finding items.

So they will be selling powerups afterall... who would have thought.


MH: It's all about making trade-offs so you can make the kind of tank you want to drive, the kind of weapon you want to fire.

Some more solo MBT love from MH

[Grimster]

So they will be selling powerups afterall... who would have thought.



I don't think you are getting the whole picture. The intent is not that you will be able to grind yourself to better stuff and if you put that into context than they still don't sell powerups since you can't grind yourself powerups. :)

[Jennyboo]

MH: We have a shop, so there are microtransactions. One of our key goals with microtransactions is never exclusively sell power. We will never allow you to buy an item that gives you more power. We want to make sure that the stuff that's available in the store is also available through gameplay. The store is a way to maybe bypass spending a lot of time finding items.

I think that's about sum's up what the man said :rolleyes:

[Mastachief]

The shop is getting a little clearer and makes perfect sense. Spend x time finding/making/grinding for x item or spend $x for item now.

With no sub that's like $180 a year you aren't spending so instead spend it on the shop.

[TheRagingGerbil]

So they will be selling powerups afterall... who would have thought.

Reading comprehension is your friend.

Some more solo MBT love from MH

Again, not what was said. :rolleyes:

[Shogun]

that´s the first statement about the shop where i have nothing to complain about ;-)

just stay true to what you just said in that interview and the free to play system will be great!

i have absolutely no problem with a shop full of weapons and even powerups of any kind, as long as the players can get this stuff ingame without using the shop. no matter if some of those items will require a long search, massive grinding or only drop once a day for only one player per server.

so if you don´t have money, you can use your patience to get all stuff and the other way round.

vanity items like fancy hats or pink tube socks or even the highby hairstyle can be shop only, as long as they don´t change gameplay or stats in any way.
you wanna look badass? you gotta pay for it. but its only cosmetic and you gain no advantage other than inflicting more humiliation/fear/fun on other players.

[Xyntech]

This essentially makes the game similar to Team Fortress 2's transaction model, which isn't really a bad thing.

You can spend money to get weapons in TF2, but you can also get every one of those weapons as a random drop (even better in Planetside 2 where you know exactly what you have to do to get each gun). Some cosmetic things in TF2 can only be acquired through real money purchases, but none of them influence game play.

Also, like TF2, is the fact that these purchasable weapons won't be upgrades, but sidegrades. Better in some areas, weaker in others.

One thing this does make me wonder is if the Vangaurd/Prowler/Magrider will be available on day one WITHOUT a purchase. With this confirmed system of transaction, you could easily buy a tank on day one, but it could also potentially still take a long time to unlock it without paying. That seems like the most worrying part of this info.

[Tigersmith]

I love how they keep stating Store will not sell power. This is a good thing. The more they say it the more I actually believe them

[Azren]

MH: We have a shop, so there are microtransactions. One of our key goals with microtransactions is never exclusively sell power. We will never allow you to buy an item that gives you more power. We want to make sure that the stuff that's available in the store is also available through gameplay. The store is a way to maybe bypass spending a lot of time finding items.
I think that's about sum's up what the man said :rolleyes:

Meaning: you will be able to buy any powerup that you can aquire in-game too, what he said is that you can not buy anything above what is avaiable through grinding. This is the definition of "selling power" ...

[basti]

Meaning: you will be able to buy any powerup that you can aquire in-game too, what he said is that you can not buy anything above what is avaiable through grinding. This is the definition of "selling power" ...

Err, no, it isnt?

The definition of "selling power" is to sell something that makes someone stronger than anyone else that didnt buy the thing. This isnt the case here, because someone who buyed something just saved some time, but didnt got more powerful, because you only have sidegrades, not upgrades.

Mind if you read what Planetside 2 is actually? :P

[Xyntech]

Meaning: you will be able to buy any powerup that you can aquire in-game too, what he said is that you can not buy anything above what is avaiable through grinding. This is the definition of "selling power" ...

Selling power would be A) being able to buy superior items (remember we are dealing with sidegrades, not upgrades like in MMORPGs) and B) being able to buy weapons that allow you to do something that no free player will ever be able to do without also spending some money.

I would have slightly preferred that weapons not be sold at all, but this is the next best thing.

Now, if ever they even slightly hint at making some weapons be cash shop exclusive, especially if they made them be flat out upgrades with no draw backs, I would be happy to get up in arms about it with everyone else.

[Bags]

Basti, your logic isn't welcome here. This is the realm of unfounded assumptions and alarmism. Do I need to show you to the door?

[Aractain]

I want to add to this "THATS NOT SELLING POWER!" train that has formed to correct misinformation.

Thus; thats not selling power.

[Crator]

Let not get the term "Selling power" twisted. Yes, by definition they are selling power but the way in which it is being implemented is good. If they were to sell something that gave someone else an advantage over someone else, that's the wrong way. Since they are selling things that give you side-grades (give + in one stat while giving a - to another stat), this isn't that big of an issue. Another thing that lessens the blow for this is that they are making everything that is available in the cash-shop as attainable in-game, without needing to spend real money at the cash shop.

[Xyntech]

Basti, your logic isn't welcome here. This is the realm of unfounded assumptions and alarmism. Do I need to show you to the door?

Can I preemptively amend my earlier statement to state that it will probably take 1000 hours to unlock a $20 rifle that will have a downside of 5% slower firing rate and do 300% more damage per shot?

Storm the castle! Leave no survivors!

[Azren]

Funny how some people define "selling power". When I think about this topic, anything that influences game balance can be regarded as "selling power", even if not directly. In theory if someone could buy every certification avaiable on day one, would that not be regarded as "selling power"? Only because everyone else can get those certs too if they spend a few years unlocking them. I would say it does.

For the record, I never assumed that you will be able to buy any kind of powerup/sidegrade that can not be unlocked in-game by some other means. Such a thing would be just silly.

At any rate this is hardly surprising, SOE is not naiive enough to belive that they can uphold the game service (and make lots of profit) by selling visual upgrades only.

[Xyntech]

At any rate this is hardly surprising, SOE is not naiive enough to belive that they can uphold the game service (and make lots of profit) by selling visual upgrades only.

It's also not surprising since they have mentioned Team Fortress 2 and especially League of Legends as inspiration for their F2P model.

Side grades should mean that a person who drops a ton of money at launch will get to play around with a lot more toys. They are financially supporting the game, so they get early access to some of that stuff. Meh, as long as it doesn't turn them into one man armies.

I would have to say you are flat out wrong to say they are planning on selling power based on what we currently know.

They will be selling options.

[Senyu]

Hey, remember when a gme involved actually playing it to unlock those better and cooler things and ultimaley make you stronger? And was so satisfying when you did finnaly get it and proudly showed it to everyone else?

Guess they dont....why play the game when you can just buy it. That (at least for me) is still selling power.

[Xyntech]

Hey, remember when a gme involved actually playing it to unlock those better and cooler things and ultimaley make you stronger? And was so satisfying when you did finnaly get it and proudly showed it to everyone else?

Then why don't you just not buy it? Have some self control. You can still unlock it and you won't be at a disadvantage in the meanwhile.

If you want to support the game and pay money, purchase some cosmetic stuff and pretend like you are paying a monthly fee.

Who are you showing it off to anyways? This is Planetside. We had a certification system which meant that, from the start of the game, anyone could grab any weapon/vehicle if they picked those certs. You actually have more of an option to "show off" your new gun now since not everyone will have access to it as readily. Buy it or unlock it, you could still show it off.

Why play the game? Because it's Planetside, the best MMOFPS series known to man.

If I can buy something and it makes me > you in a fight, that is selling power. Anything else is twisting words to suite your own opinion.

[SavageB]

Im unclear of how this is going to be done. First day of launch will I be able to buy say a "HA" weapon right off the bat, or will things become available once I put in the time to unlock the standard variant of the said weapon?

Meaning could I just buy the HA weapon and skill into other things like leadership or will i still have to grind the time in a certain type of HA first to make the MT accessible, anyone follow?

[Xyntech]

Im unclear of how this is going to be done. First day of launch will I be able to buy say a "HA" weapon right off the bat, or will things become available once I put in the time to unlock the standard variant of the said weapon?

Meaning could I just buy the HA weapon and skill into other things like leadership or will i still have to grind the time in a certain type of HA first to make the MT accessible, anyone follow?

From what little information we have, it sounds like we will have the basic versions of a lot of things right off the bat, so we may not even need to purchase or earn HA.

The biggest thing we have heard specified for certain in the unlock tree (and by extension presumably the cash shop purchases) are sidegrade unlockables to customize each weapon and vehicle. So presumably someone who dropped some money on day 1 could get a lot of cool toys to play around with, but everyone else would still have the tools to kill them, which presumably means equally powerful guns, IE our own heavy assualt weapons.

[kaffis]

Basti, your logic isn't welcome here. This is the realm of unfounded assumptions and alarmism. Do I need to show you to the door?
Ahem, Bags. Your polite tone and ask questions first, bounce later attitude is not welcome here. This is the realm of unfounded assumptions and alarmism. GTFO, you godless heathen!!!

[Lonehunter]

Azren you seriously need to pay attention, calm down, and stop being the worst case of assumption I've ever seen.

"We want to make sure that the stuff that's available in the store is also available through gameplay"
I really don't understand how you interpret that ino...
"someone could buy every certification avaiable on day one, "

Why do you also assume the things they're talking about unlocking are affecting game balance? What if the only way to get a bright pink gun is to get 100 nut shots, or you could buy it in the store? He also never actually says "Everything you can earn in game, you can buy".

The only things sold that would affect gameplay are "sidegrades". You could buy attachments that increase your clip size, but lower accuracy. Or no muzzle flash, but sounds louder. Different things that do technically provide a bonus, but also penalize other things. That is not selling power, it's more like selling adjustments.

We don't even know the requirements to get these. Things in the shop may still have a level requirement to buy.

[Crator]

That is not selling power, it's more like selling adjustments.

Thank you for that. "Selling Adjustments" is what they are doing. If you do ever see them sell power please post about it and you will see the entire PSU forums support you 100%.

[FIREk]

Meaning: you will be able to buy any powerup that you can aquire in-game too, what he said is that you can not buy anything above what is avaiable through grinding. This is the definition of "selling power" ...

...


Anyway, here's an interesting bit:
You can pimp out your tank, change your secondary and primary weapons on it, change the armour on it.

So not only secondary guns will be customizable. That's something new.

[Senyu]

Then why don't you just not buy it? Have some self control. You can still unlock it and you won't be at a disadvantage in the meanwhile.

If you want to support the game and pay money, purchase some cosmetic stuff and pretend like you are paying a monthly fee.

Who are you showing it off to anyways? This is Planetside. We had a certification system which meant that, from the start of the game, anyone could grab any weapon/vehicle if they picked those certs. You actually have more of an option to "show off" your new gun now since not everyone will have access to it as readily. Buy it or unlock it, you could still show it off.

Why play the game? Because it's Planetside, the best MMOFPS series known to man.

If I can buy something and it makes me > you in a fight, that is selling power. Anything else is twisting words to suite your own opinion.

You miss the general point. Allowing people simply to buy there stuff instead of playing should be avoided. Your just spreading the belief of you can just buy anything and not have to work for it. Planetside granted doesn't have a sudden stop at the end content. Its continous pvp keeps it going. If this was with anyother RPG MMO where you can just buy everything possible the whats the point of the game? Planetside is as restricted to this but still a bad concept to spread around.

And just because I don't approve of this one thing since the rest of PS2 sounds fing amazing isn't gona stop me from bying. Honestly there have been far more complaints and gripes than my post.

But reading some of the lower posts I hope the concept of sidegrades is what they will do. Unlockable side options that can be bought or learned. Still stupid I think but much more tolerable. But honestly is probably one of the few ways they can make money. Yay for making money no matter how its made!

[Sirisian]

:lol: This community is gullible. You don't have to read into. The word was exclusive. You can either play for a few hours and get an upgrade or just pay to have it without playing. It's a clever way of saying "yeah we're selling power, but it's not like we're only putting the item in the cash shop so it's alright". I still have a slight problem with it, but I already said this kind of stuff was going to happen. From a business standpoint it makes sense. If a player is playing for 2 hours to finally get an upgrade and they notice the enemy has it equipped every time they spawn they're going to want it too. So they'll buy it instead of playing for 2 hours to find it or get it with resources.

This is basically what F2P is bringing. Also it sounds like a lot of people don't care. Personally with 15 USD to spend per month that's a lot of upgrades assuming they aren't overpriced.

Thank you for that. "Selling Adjustments" is what they are doing. If you do ever see them sell power please post about it and you will see the entire PSU forums support you 100%.
Highly unlikely. They'll just say it's a sidegrade and not an upgrade and that you can earn it in the game after playing for a day. Most people don't really care if you can buy power. It's been shown time and time again online. The vocal minority (2%) might say they hate it, but it doesn't really change things. SOE knows this.

[Crator]

Pretty sure it's been defined here that cash shop options should not be anything but sidegrades. This means giving you a better stat in one area and lower it in another. I don't care if they "say" it's a sidegrade if in fact it does only give you a + in a stats. At that point it could be considered selling power.

[Sirisian]

Pretty sure it's been defined here that cash shop options should not be anything but sidegrades. This means giving you a better stat in one area and lower it in another. I don't care if they "say" it's a sidegrade if in fact it does only give you a + in a stats. At that point it could be considered selling power.
They're hoping you can't tell. +10% RoF, -10% damage means very little to someone without math. Is that a positive gain? Well in some situations it might be. In other situations it might not be. What if 90% of the game is that situation and not having the upgrade leaves you at a disadvantage. Can't blame them though. We all know what a sidegrade means. Giving/buying advantages in certain situations. You'd be in denial to look at it any other way. However, it seems like the community isn't bothered by it as long as it doesn't get out of hand.

[Hamma]

:lol: This community is gullible.
:rolleyes:

Glad we have the great Sirisian to guide us to the promised land!

[Crator]

They're hoping you can't tell. +10% RoF, -10% damage means very little to someone without math. Is that a positive gain? Well in some situations it might be. In other situations it might not be. What if 90% of the game is that situation and not having the upgrade leaves you at a disadvantage. Can't blame them though. We all know what a sidegrade means. Giving/buying advantages in certain situations. You'd be in denial to look at it any other way. However, it seems like the community isn't bothered by it as long as it doesn't get out of hand.

I would say that would be a great reason for the community to complain about something as being "selling power".

[Sirisian]

I would say that would be a great reason for the community to complain about something as being "selling power".
Not sure what you're referring to. You mean it's okay if only in 50% of situations it gives you an advantage?

[kaffis]

Not sure what you're referring to. You mean it's okay if only in 50% of situations it gives you an advantage?
Yes, if the other 50% of situations it's a disadvantage.

That's the definition of "situational."

[Raymac]

Some people just consider anything "selling power". So that will fall under the catagory of "you can't please everyone all the time".

[FriendlyFire]

Actually he said "One of our key goals with microtransactions is never exclusively sell power." So that means power can be bought, but that power is not elusive to the shop.

[Raymac]

Actually he said "One of our key goals with microtransactions is never exclusively sell power." So that means power can be bought, but that power is not elusive to the shop.

True. Pretty much every game out there has some sort of character progression now. That doesn't make it automatically unbalanced. I mean even PS1 had character progression which gave situational power upgrades. That's why I said earlier, no matter what you do, you can't please everyone all the time. Somebody will always find something to complain about.

The only thing I really care about is that they have it balanced so it doesn't break gameplay, and it seems the devs are very conscious of that already.

[Dreamcast]

It's gonna be like League of Legends.....Im sure they will allow u to double xp if you pay.


Nothing wrong with that......The best players are still going to be the best.


If they sell like vechiles etc.....IDK, but im sure it will be balanced.

[Brusi]

The whole topic of "selling power" is so subjective and semantic. I'm not a massive pessimist or anything, but i foresee a bunch of guys on this forum with broader ideas about what selling power means to them, being dissapointed when they see the way the cash shop operates.

I'm sure there will be plenty of ways that items for sale will fall into the "selling power" category and i don't think it is going to make that big a difference.

I trust they have learned from enough other recent MMO cash shop disasters.

[Bags]

PS1 sold power. $15/mo to play? What the fuck sony, if I don't pay anything I don't get to use guns or even login?

[basti]

PS1 sold power. $15/mo to play? What the fuck sony, if I don't pay anything I don't get to use guns or even login?

My god, i never knew!

[Graywolves]

Ok seriously, if you think that selling something that is available to you in-game is selling power then just stop.


Yes, it is a convenience. But hey, you can either spend time playing the game for free and grind to it, or you can actually support the game/SOE and buy things. If it REALLY bothers you that much then just spend the money, it's not like you are paying for a subscription.


I'm seriously sick of all the selling power QQing that is going on.

[BorisBlade]

So i can customize the kind of tank i want to drive? Well that would be one where I'm the pilot and i have two gunners to handle those weapons. Can i do that?

[Sirisian]

Ok seriously, if you think that selling something that is available to you in-game is selling power then just stop.
Really depends on how useful the sidegrades are. If I know outdoors that an accuracy sidegrade gives me an advantage it turns into three scenarios. I have the resouces I earned and get it and use my slight advantage in that scenario to get a kill. Or I lack the resources and don't get it. I 100% support those two choices since the player is earning their upgrade and making a choice. What I don't like to see is players purchasing a sidegrade using real cash and getting that sidegrade advantage since they didn't work for it. That's how I've been viewing buying power which is drastically different from the people that see it as buying convenience. It's essentially on the level of buying to get rid of vehicle timers. Destroying the delay inherent in earning things.

This also limits the devs if they sell resources. I'd like sidegrades or upgrades that can't be bought.

[cellinaire]

Meaning: you will be able to buy any powerup that you can aquire in-game too, what he said is that you can not buy anything above what is avaiable through grinding. This is the definition of "selling power" ...

Let's suppose you are right. Then, does it also mean 'advantage in combat' or 'advantage in overall character progression and achievement' ?

What's your opinion on these, I wonder?

[dsi]

Ok seriously, if you think that selling something that is available to you in-game is selling power then just stop.


Yes, it is a convenience. But hey, you can either spend time playing the game for free and grind to it, or you can actually support the game/SOE and buy things. If it REALLY bothers you that much then just spend the money, it's not like you are paying for a subscription.


I'm seriously sick of all the selling power QQing that is going on.

Two people have played for the exact same amount of time.
Player 1 has spent money on MTs.
Player 2 has not.

If Player 1 can beat Player 2 in an otherwise equal situation he has bought power.

If such a situation is possible PS2 is selling power.

(and I'd love to see a knowledgeable PS2 dev come in here and say with 100% certainty that the above situation will never happen)

Definition of power: Ability to defeat other players.
Definition of selling power: The ability to buy something that gives one player an advantage (more power) over otherwise equal players.

Examples: Weapons (say a SG for instance, you're more flexible due to gaining power at short range when you need it), Special armor (that has an effect of course :p), special ammuntion, character bonuses(XP rate gain bonuses are borderline power selling, but selling resistances or other buffs is very much selling power).



Microtransactions are fine if the only thing being sold is cosmetic items. In fact, I support them in that case. Variety is good. (Well, unless it gets out of hand like in TF2, style should still fit)

And about TF2: There are a few reasons why MT for weapons is even slightly tolerated in that game, one reason is that it was introduced so late into the game, also because each weapon can be easily made with crafting materials that are easily found due to high weapon drop rates, as well as trading in general. Not to mention that the majority of weapons are very well balanced with pros and cons.

[Azren]

Let's suppose you are right. Then, does it also mean 'advantage in combat' or 'advantage in overall character progression and achievement' ?

What's your opinion on these, I wonder?

Both... Overall character progression should give you advantage in combat. If you can buy sidegrades (something you can eventually unlock in-game too, just takes months maybe) it could give you an advantage over other players. Don't kid yourselves thinking that sidegrades won't influence combat; they will... for example how does a one shot = sure kill, but long reload sniper sidegrade sound? Something everyone can get, yes, the diffrence is if you have it on day one, or months later.

Anyone who thinks only cosmetic stuff will be in the shop is gullible, that would never make enough profit for SOE to keep the servers and developement running. Maybe not on day one, but it will be there.

[CuddlyChud]

I don't think its a big deal if guns are sold on the Planetside store if they're unlockable in game. If you think about a game like Battlefield: Bad Company 2, there are plenty of guns, each with its own strengths and weaknesses. No one would definitively say that the m24 or GOL (Bolt action rifles) were better than the SVU Snaiperskaya or T88 (Semi automatic rifles). This is true for all the weapon categories. The starting assault rifles and smgs aren't any better or worse than the last unlockable weapon. They're just different in terms of magazine size, rate of fire, bullet damage, accuracy, etc.... Individual player preferences are what matter.

Any imbalances that arise from selling guns in the store are due to those guns being themselves OP, not because variety is equatable with imbalance.

Also as a side note, I feel its kind of silly to think of buying guns off the store as somehow unfair compared to "working" for it in game. Money is simply the intemporal store of value of your work. Whether you wanna work and earn money to buy the stuff, or play and earn the stuff, it all boils down to using your time and effort.

[2coolforu]

I don't think its a big deal if guns are sold on the Planetside store if they're unlockable in game. If you think about a game like Battlefield: Bad Company 2, there are plenty of guns, each with its own strengths and weaknesses. No one would definitively say that the m24 or GOL (Bolt action rifles) were better than the SVU Snaiperskaya or T88 (Semi automatic rifles). This is true for all the weapon categories. The starting assault rifles and smgs aren't any better or worse than the last unlockable weapon. They're just different in terms of magazine size, rate of fire, bullet damage, accuracy, etc.... Individual player preferences are what matter.

Any imbalances that arise from selling guns in the store are due to those guns being themselves OP, not because variety is equatable with imbalance.

Also as a side note, I feel its kind of silly to think of buying guns off the store as somehow unfair compared to "working" for it in game. Money is simply the intemporal store of value of your work. Whether you wanna work and earn money to buy the stuff, or play and earn the stuff, it all boils down to using your time and effort.

Funny you should mention Bad Company 2, I seem to remember the M60 with ACOG scope in that game which, at it's peak, accounted for something like 50% of all the kills made by all the classes. If you are trying to make a case for balance then Bad Company 2 is probably going to put you at a disadvantage as there is easily a 'best' gun for every class which is used by the majority of people

(AN-94, M60, GOL, SCAR-L + Carl Gustav)

Seriously though, BC2 was plagued with imba and it took them a LONG time to patch the M-60 which effectively made the game unplayable unless you were a medic (You could heal yourself, revive teammates, had a weapon that outranged sniper rifles and outdamaged AR's). Even now just a few people using the Carl Gustav with some of the upgrades for it can make the game pretty meh.

I would go on to say that it is horrible being a new player in BC2 as you lack the damage bonus for one (1.25x damage) which puts you at a huge disadvantage AND you miss out on many sights + reticules and gadgets.

[Traak]

LOL at the guys who just plunk down 1000 bux for goodies... hey, wait a minute... I could *ahem* never mind.

[Azren]

don't laugh at them, they will be the ones supporting the servers ><

[Hamma]

Funny you should mention Bad Company 2, I seem to remember the M60 with ACOG scope in that game which, at it's peak, accounted for something like 50% of all the kills made by all the classes.

That thing was insane! :ugh:

[Xyntech]

What I don't like to see is players purchasing a sidegrade using real cash and getting that sidegrade advantage since they didn't work for it.

But they did work for it, just in the real world not in game. If they are too lazy to spend a lot of time playing, it won't matter what sidegrades they pay for because they probably wont be the most skilled players either.

As for mommy buying some sidegrades for little Timmy, how would that be any different than two players playing on the same account, one person leveling up for the other person?

Either way, work is getting done. It shouldn't unbalance the game and if it does there will be a massive outcry. If you don't want to wait, buy it. If you want to earn it, earn it.

For those of you who want to show off the sidegrades you earned in game, maybe you can petition the devs to make a naming distinction between purchased and earned ones. Put a CS at the end of the cash shop ones or something.

[CuddlyChud]

Funny you should mention Bad Company 2, I seem to remember the M60 with ACOG scope in that game which, at it's peak, accounted for something like 50% of all the kills made by all the classes. If you are trying to make a case for balance then Bad Company 2 is probably going to put you at a disadvantage as there is easily a 'best' gun for every class which is used by the majority of people

(AN-94, M60, GOL, SCAR-L + Carl Gustav)

Seriously though, BC2 was plagued with imba and it took them a LONG time to patch the M-60 which effectively made the game unplayable unless you were a medic (You could heal yourself, revive teammates, had a weapon that outranged sniper rifles and outdamaged AR's). Even now just a few people using the Carl Gustav with some of the upgrades for it can make the game pretty meh.

I would go on to say that it is horrible being a new player in BC2 as you lack the damage bonus for one (1.25x damage) which puts you at a huge disadvantage AND you miss out on many sights + reticules and gadgets.

I specifically left out perks in the discussion because the devs only mentioned selling the guns themselves. Therefore talking about magnum ammo is pointless since that is indeed a straight up damage increase. The imbalances with the M60 and an-94 were eventually patched out, to the point where if you play nowadays, you see a much wider selection in weapons used. These imbalances were therefore not the result of one characteristic of a weapon being greater (i.e. accuracy is king for assault rifles, see F2000), but simply because the trade-offs weren't in line with the other guns.

I'm simply trying to say that selling guns in a cash shop is not unbalancing as long as those guns are simply different and not better. If the guns in the cash shop are more powerful and they are also available in game, then its not an issue of the cash shop selling power, but a game imbalance. If variety were somehow the enemy of balance, then we should just get rid of ES weapons, since the jackhammer has some advantages over the chaingun, and vice versa.

As a side note, i would totally disagree with your list of best weapons per class in BFBC2. F2000 with extra grenades and explosives mk2 :love:. and have you played with the m60 recently? its the worst mg now :( Also as another side note, having lvled up many many characters in BFBC2 (its my favorite fps after Planetside, and I get bored if i'm not working towards something) I can honestly say that recently i've never felt like it was weapon imbalance that killed me, but the lack of magnum ammo.

[Graywolves]

You say bought power...I say bought the game....

[Traak]

The stuff you can buy, you can also grind for. What's the fuss?

[Sirisian]

If they are too lazy to spend a lot of time playing, it won't matter what sidegrades they pay for because they probably wont be the most skilled players either.
You're assuming that playing the game makes it "easy" to get sidegrades at a fast rate. I doubt it will. I imagine you'll play for what seems like a long time to get even a simple sidegrade leaving the option open for even skilled players to fall into the cash shop system. That's speculation though.

As for mommy buying some sidegrades for little Timmy, how would that be any different than two players playing on the same account, one person leveling up for the other person?
Only one person can play on a character at a time. That's perfectly fine for two people to play the same character. They wouldn't be able to play together and they'd probably fight over the account, but if it worked then so be it.

If you seriously can't see the difference between paying real money instead of actually playing the game to earn something then we're looking at this completely differently. I think it cheapens the game if you can just pay a dollar instead of playing for 5 hours to get something. That and the whole buying advantages idea.

The stuff you can buy, you can also grind for. What's the fuss?
Just different opinions on how balanced the game should be. Some people don't mind if people can purchase an upgrade that takes another person a 5 hour interval to get. Others feel this is essentially buying power. The other viewpoint is buying convenience. That is the advantages you bought aren't important and you're just skipping the "grind". I have a problem with the buying convenience since it views sidegrades as something that doesn't really do much when in fact situationally they could make the difference. If they couldn't they wouldn't be in the game (or they'd be buffed to add an incentive toward the cash shop).

So yeah personal preference. I've always wanted an aesthetic only cash shop, but it's being turned into a hidden pay to win system. It's subtle enough so that players probably won't complain, but it's still there. I'm just making sure people here don't allow it to get blown out of proportion to the point where we're buying certs and other "convenience" items. (However, you will notice a lot of people aren't bothered by that since they want SOE to sell training boosts).

[Baron]

Much of the discussion here centers around someone being too lazy or impatient to just gain a sidegrade though gameplay.

However many people's lives are not conducive to sitting down to play video games for multiple hours a day. Jobs with high time demand and/or travel requirements, spouses and kids are but a few of those "life" things which require resources.

If your entire air-cav outfit has the "gold reflective window tint" for their reaver cockpit because they have played for X hours ...and you would like to have that color tint as well because you're part of the team, why should it ever bother anyone if they paid for it? Some people pay for it with their time in game and others with a different form of time.

[Sirisian]

Much of the discussion here centers around someone being too lazy or impatient to just gain a sidegrade though gameplay.
Which is why I'd prefer that the game didn't allow you to buy them and instead just make them easier to get. Like most basic sidegrades you might have enough resources after dying 3 times. Then if you save up after an hour you could get a really nice upgrade.

For this reason I believe it will be beneficial not to sell every sidegrade available. It would be nice if there was a split between what can be purchased and what had to be earned if only to place some delay on certain advantages.

If your entire air-cav outfit has the "gold reflective window tint" for their reaver cockpit because they have played for X hours ...and you would like to have that color tint as well because you're part of the team, why should it ever bother anyone if they paid for it? Some people pay for it with their time in game and others with a different form of time.
From reading all the threads on this subject, no one has a problem with aesthetic upgrades. I'd go so far as to say you can't earn those kinds of aesthetic upgrades and to just keep them in the cash shop.

[Baron]

Why is your time spent in game to earn an item ...more valuable than my time spent at work to earn money to pay for it?

[Crator]

It's the old "hardcore" mindset that stems from the EQ1 days.

[Sirisian]

Why is your time spent in game to earn an item ...more valuable than my time spent at work to earn money to pay for it?
You feel the game should reward you for having a job? :rolleyes:

You need to separate virtual goods in a game from the real world. Maybe this is why Diablo 3 went the way it did. People don't differentiate virtual goods and gain a "why can't I just buy it?" mentality. I prefer to not think about money when playing a game I guess. Either that or I need to remove the difference I see between virtual goods and real life ones. That might be easier.

[Bags]

You feel the game should reward you for having a job? :rolleyes:

Planetside 1 did this. Why complain now?

[Sirisian]

Planetside 1 did this. Why complain now?
That's the thing it didn't. Viewing a subscription to play the game as the same as microtransactions is flawed. With a subscription you know everyone in the game has the same choices and money isn't involved. If they don't pay then they're not playing.

Paying for an active subscription I view as paying for entertainment, like watching a movie. Microtransactions for artificially hard to get upgrades is the equivalent of someone letting me in free to watch a bad movie then stopping the movie and asking if I want the plot to be more interesting for a small fee. I can either sit and watch the free movie or pay. In PS2 to watch the good parts the alternative is to sit through an artificially bad part so that SOE hopes I pay money. I'd rather just be given the full movie without having to pull out my wallet when it gets stupid.

[Crator]

Still don't see the problem. If the item is in-game and can be obtained outside the cash shop, there's no issue. It's FREE-TO-PLAY. Pay some money if you want the extra stuff faster. That simple.

[Xyntech]

I would also like to see some unlockables be unavailable in the cash shop. Then again, my ideal would have been to only have cosmetic items in the cash shop, but I didn't think that was likely nor a viable business model.

Despite not being my first, or even second choice, I still wouldn't mind if every unlockable in the game was in the cash shop as long as balance wasn't thrown off.

Balance is a tricky thing, but from my viewpoint, as long as any advantage that an enemy has over me is offset by some equally valid weakness, balance is maintained. It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be close enough that I still have a perfectly fair chance of killing them. Hell, they may get a lemon that has a weakness that is slightly too large for the gained advantage, which in theory should put me ahead of them.

It will all even out as long as the developers keep the mindest of never selling a win button.

F2P means more players. That means a better Planetside, period. A game has to make money to run, so if the developers can find a way of making some cash without screwing up my enjoyment of the game, great. If it screws up your enjoyment of the game, I'm sorry about that. Hopefully it doesn't completely ruin it and you can still have fun with the game.

[basti]

Sirsian, i actually agree with you on so many levels.

I do hate the idea of Cash shop and F2P and everything, and would love to just pay my monthly sub.
But the two of us cant deny that F2P has high potential to get a lot of players into the game. And thats what we need, loads n loads of players.

Those of us who have been there before BFRs, the bending or whatever date saw the big battles. Two, if not even three pop locks, yelling everywhere, Massive gal drops of up to 5 galaxies, etc. It was awesome, truly epic, the stuff that caused the "i was there, man" syndrome, and it was during that time that we all began to know how extremly awesome an MMOFPS really is.
If we want that back again, we need a lot of players, and F2P with a cash shop has a big potential there. They just need to do it right, and im pretty sure we all go on a rampage in case they ever do it wrong. :)