Would you like to see major differences in each empire?

[SKYeXile]

I'm sure most of you here that have played Planetside have seen that SOE tried to make each empire unique and have their own strengths and weaknesses, but in the end they're very much the same in an attempt to balance the game.

I'm wondering would players rather each empire to be the same, all have similar HA, MA, tanks and vehicles, or would you rather the game have a more starcraft balance to it, where each empire is totally different from one another, not having direct equivalent of vehicles or weapons? let me explain.

I'm going to attempt my take on the original empire themes, TR: More is better, NC: more powerful is better and VS: Versatile, while making them have superior technology, not just flashy lights, but at a cost.

Terrain Republic.
I would like to still keep their theme as more is better, but none of this 3 man vehicle stuff, I would like to make their vehicles, especially the prowler be single man, it would be not require tech. and be much more formidable than the lightning. this would cost as much cert points as a normal MBT. The TR would then have a vast array of weapons, they would be very specialised at what they do, but very effective at it, the downside being that they could be easily caught in the wrong situation. They would possibly even have the Mosquito with no tech requirement, but gain AV attachments and a bomber with tech.



New Conglomerate
I would very much be keeping the New conglomerate as they are now. Strong indoors and when they have technology, but weak against air. Their hand AV would be stronger because of increased prowler presence. The NC would then have a skeeter like aircraft as tech one and then the reaver and bomber as tech 2.


Vanu Sovereignty
Their weapons would have alternate fire modes, not simply AV modes, but change the weapon entity(would take 2-5 seconds, and eat more ammo depending on the round fired) heavy pulsars and sniper rifles would be combined. heavy assault possibly with a thumper. The VS would have no standard tank just a magrider, but it would be more effective than what it is currently against aircraft and infantry, along with increased health. The VS cert's would generally cost more, but a lot of the time not require perquisites because of their increased cost and functionality. overall they would have less weapons and vehicles available to them, because their weapons serve multiple roles. They would have the Dyson as a aircraft(prettymuch a skeeter) but at tech 2 it would become mutlicrew. Gaining AV rockets for the pilot and the passenger would control bombs like a liberator.


While these things you may think are not balanced(they’re probably not) the question is would you like to see something like this where empire differences are taken to an extreme or have each empire as carbon copies of each other so there is no question of balance?(though there would still be questioning of balance)

[Zulthus]

Terrain Republic.
I would like to still keep their theme as more is better, but none of this 3 man vehicle stuff, [I would like to make their vehicles, especially the prowler be single man}NO, it would be not require tech]HELL NO and be much more formidable than the lightning. this would cost as much cert points as a normal MBT. The TR would then have a vast array of weapons, they would be very specialised at what they do, but very effective at it, the downside being that they could be easily caught in the wrong situation. They would possibly even have the [Mosquito with no tech requirement, but gain AV attachments and a bomber with tech.] HELL NO



New Conglomerate
I would very much be keeping the New conglomerate as they are now. Strong indoors and when they have technology, but weak against air. Their hand AV would be stronger because of increased prowler presence. The NC would then have a skeeter like aircraft as tech one and then the reaver and bomber as tech 2. I agree, but still no guided missiles.


Vanu Sovereignty
Their weapons would have alternate fire modes, not simply AV modes, but change the weapon entity(would take 2-5 seconds, and eat more ammo depending on the round fired) heavy pulsars and sniper rifles would be combined along with heavy assault and possibly thumpers. 1000x HELL NOThe VS would have no standard tank just a magrider Hell no., but it would be more effective than what it is currently against aircraft and infantry, along with increased health. The VS cert's would generally cost more, but a lot of the time not require perquisites because of their increased cost and functionality. overall they would have less weapons and vehicles available to them, because their weapons serve multiple roles. They would have the Dyson as a aircraft(prettymuch a skeeter) but at tech 2 it would become mutlicrew. Gaining AV rockets for the pilot and the passenger would control bombs like a liberator.


While these things you may think are not balanced(they’re probably not) the question is would you like to see something like this where empire differences are taken to an extreme or have each empire as carbon copies of each other so there is no question of balance?(though there would still be questioning of balance)

Nope. I'm fine with empires just having different armor/guns/vehicles. Some of the changes you listed are crazy. Why should the TR be able to pull a one man MBT without tech? No standard tank for Vanu? Vanu using 6 weapons in 1? No thanks. Leave this stuff to the devs imo.

[Bags]

I like how it was in Planetside 1.

But please no more three man TR vehicles.

[Talek Krell]

I would like the empires to be distinct in various ways. I will leave the best way to do that to the devs.

[Sirisian]

I'm wondering would players rather each empire to be the same, all have similar HA, MA, tanks and vehicles
I don't like empire specific stuff. I don't want a reason to switch empires or a reason to have 3 accounts when the game begins just to experience everything.

And for the biggest reason I don't like ES weapons and vehicles:
in the end they're very much the same in an attempt to balance the game.

SOE could easily just reskin everything with their own particles and animations with the same gameplay for each empire and it would be excellent in my opinion.

[SKYeXile]

Nope. I'm fine with empires just having different armor/guns/vehicles. Some of the changes you listed are crazy. Why should the TR be able to pull a one man MBT without tech? No standard tank for Vanu? Vanu using 6 weapons in 1? No thanks. Leave this stuff to the devs imo.

Perhaps its a little crazy...Lightning isn't very effective anyway, and the other empires would obviously have increased infantry AV damage. probably the 100mm would be overkill for a tech 1 tank, but have the tech 1 come with a 75mm and 20mm the tech 2 with a 100mm and a 20mm.

The VS thing was a grammar error.

My balance posts are normally pretty unbiased and well agreed with, a rough concept as a basis for discussion. This was certainly not to be taken as "DO THIS!"

Also with the Skeeter, Reaver and Dyson being TR, NC and VS respectively...do you think they would be only available as a tech 1? or tech 1 and 2 gaining upgrades in tech 2? Because i think we will see a skeeter with missiles...
http://www.planetside-universe.com/images/screenshots/fptn_artlink01.jpg

Leave it to the devs!

[DviddLeff]

Take Starcraft as a good example of how to have radically different play styles facing each other in a more or less balanced way.

[CutterJohn]

Take Starcraft as a good example of how to have radically different play styles facing each other in a more or less balanced way.

Starcraft has no leveling, and you can play against or with anyone, and switch between empires after every match.

To experience a different factions playstyle in PS you must switch your empire, giving up playing with your friends, and spend a fair amount of time redoing the level grind nonsense.


I like MA style differences. Minor alterations to damage/rof/effective range. I do not like AV style differences, with major differences in capability.

I'd love an 'Everythings common pool' server in PS2.

[Xyntech]

I'd like as many ES vehicles and weapons as possible, but I don't want most of the differences to be too large. You could create an overall unique feeling empire by having a lot of subtle differences instead of a few large ones. That, along with ES sidegrades and the all important cosmetic differences.

Maybe most ES differences could be like slightly more extreme versions of sidegrades. This gun does more damage per shot than that gun, but has a lower right of fire, etc.

I actually wouldn't mind a couple of the differences from PS1 to be toned back slightly. Maybe the base Jack Hammer could be more on par with the MCG at short and medium ranges. Similar damage over time, it just fires in bursts of damage instead of a steady stream. VS could get a new HA that was more similar to the two, with the Lasher redesigned as an ES Special Assault weapon.

[Traak]

I want to see major differences in every single class, in all empires.

I liked the mental switch I would do:

"NC. Watch for Phoenix snipers, no problem with Fire and Forget, TR are not here."

Automatically falling into the best evasive or attack behavior for whatever max or vehicle I faced was part of the fun. Everyone in cookie-cutter vehicles that are only different in paint? El Nope-O.

I largely choose my empire of the moment or month, or months, based on a weapon system I like being best for my play style.

I don't want to be like an angry chicken faced with two mirrors that are tinted two different colors, and it is always angry and pecking at its own reflection, but, strangely the other-color chicken always meets its pecks precisely and counters them!

Variety, it's the spice of life.

[FastAndFree]

"NC. Watch for Phoenix snipers, no problem with Fire and Forget, TR are not here."
Isn't the sparrow the only fire-and-forget missile in the game?

Point in case, AA MAXes are alredy a major difference between the empires, and I don't think I would be sad if they were more similar in their weaponry in PS2.

[Brusi]

I still think the game could be awesome if emp spec weapons and vehicles just gave the impression of a difference...

However i strongly believe the starcraft method will add a level of replay value to PS2, as once you are truly sick and tired of playing your initial empire, you can try it how the other half live.

I would hate for the community aspect of the game to be disrupted due to this though, as it's definitely one of the most important parts!

[Traak]

Isn't the sparrow the only fire-and-forget missile in the game?

I'm not a pilot, so the Sparrow didn't enter my mind. :) But, what I should have said is "lock-on".

[Bags]

Starcraft has no leveling, and you can play against or with anyone, and switch between empires after every match.

To experience a different factions playstyle in PS you must switch your empire, giving up playing with your friends, and spend a fair amount of time redoing the level grind nonsense.


I like MA style differences. Minor alterations to damage/rof/effective range. I do not like AV style differences, with major differences in capability.

I'd love an 'Everythings common pool' server in PS2.


The MA was very unbalanced.

[Xyntech]

I guess I'd like the empires to either have subtle differences or extreme differences. Star Craft level of differences would be awesome, but I'm not sure if they would be able to pull off that level of balance. I can't think of a balanced FPS that has had sides as radically different as Star Craft. It would certainly be a huge plus for Planetside 2 if they were successful.

I don't want the empires to be clones of each other either though. I think Planetside mostly got it right overall, but I think some differences should be toned down a little while the reliance on common pool is reduced.

It sounds like sidegrades, as well as a few additions such as ES fighters should move PS2 further in favor of a wider variety of ES options, so all that remains to be seen is how drastic the differences are.

Either way, I hope the differences are noticeable. I just tend to lean towards subtle differences because I know they will be easier to balance.

[SuperMorto]

Take Starcraft as a good example of how to have radically different play styles facing each other in a more or less balanced way.

That is just what I was thinking, the whole point in PS2, is to have 3 different sides, and all with their own unique things.

Thats what makes the game for me, and I can imagine for alot of people, I know some folks like it simple, but if you want all sides to be the same, then why not just play another game.

PS2 should be ads unique as possible so it doesn't fall into the same groups as the rest of the crap out there.

And why cant the devs stick to what is true, they go on and on and on and on and on about how good this forge light is, then show us gamers what you can do with it!!

VS Tech heads, I love it this
TR, Rapid fire, I love this to
NC Big and Packing a punch! and I love this!

Keep it like that.

1 thing is for sure, looking at the Max pictures is seems to me they will be going for this kind of Star Craft game.

Good to them, hope they pull it off!

Morto.

[Crator]

Even better, they made an aircraft that is empire specific and can be modded. I just hope that the mods are also empire specific and it's not just a "looks" thing.

[Xyntech]

Even better, they made an aircraft that is empire specific and can be modded. I just hope that the mods are also empire specific and it's not just a "looks" thing.

I believe they have already confirmed empire specific modifications. I think that at the time they were specifically saying that you would be able to modify common pool weapons and vehicles with ES mods, but I can only assume the same would apply even more so for ES vehicles and weapons.

[Lonehunter]

Starcraft is a perfect example of 3 factions having very different characteristics with a good amount of balance.

If Blizzard was making Planetside 2, they could pull it off. But I think the best SOE can do is a few guns/modifications/vehicles with certain empire specific aspects like lazers, higher rate of fire, and big damage single shots.

[Crator]

Sometimes simple is better. Do you have any good ideas on how to make it more dynamic though? We all know that balancing ES weapons can be sticky. Let's hope SOE can figure that one out pretty quickly this time round. ;)

[Xyntech]

Starcraft is a perfect example of 3 factions having very different characteristics with a good amount of balance.

If Blizzard was making Planetside 2, they could pull it off. But I think the best SOE can do is a few guns/modifications/vehicles with certain empire specific aspects like lazers, higher rate of fire, and big damage single shots.

I'll say it again, Starcraft is an RTS, not an FPS. I still haven't been able to think of any multi player FPS's that had three extremely distinct sides that were well balanced. The closest example I can think of are the various Aliens vs Predator games, but none of them has had the kind of balance you would need in a game like Planetside.

I'd love to see PS2 have that kind of Starcraft level of diversity. Maybe Blizzard really could pull it off, however as of yet I'm unaware of anyone ever having succeeded in designing that kind of balance in a multi player FPS. It would be awesome to see SOE pull it off for PS2 and it would certainly make the game stand out from the crowd, but I just don't see it happening. If we had a preexisting, smaller scale FPS that proved that three unique sides could be balanced in a shooter, maybe I would be more optimistic

I don't want to see the 3 factions ever become identical clones of each other, but for the time being I'd rather that the devs leaned a little more towards balance than diversity. Just so long as they don't completely remove diversity, which I can't see them ever doing.

[SuperMorto]

I'll say it again, Starcraft is an RTS, not an FPS. I still haven't been able to think of any multi player FPS's that had three extremely distinct sides that were well balanced. The closest example I can think of are the various Aliens vs Predator games, but none of them has had the kind of balance you would need in a game like Planetside.

I'd love to see PS2 have that kind of Starcraft level of diversity. Maybe Blizzard really could pull it off, however as of yet I'm unaware of anyone ever having succeeded in designing that kind of balance in a multi player FPS. It would be awesome to see SOE pull it off for PS2 and it would certainly make the game stand out from the crowd, but I just don't see it happening. If we had a preexisting, smaller scale FPS that proved that three unique sides could be balanced in a shooter, maybe I would be more optimistic

I don't want to see the 3 factions ever become identical clones of each other, but for the time being I'd rather that the devs leaned a little more towards balance than diversity. Just so long as they don't completely remove diversity, which I can't see them ever doing.

edit* I should read all of a post before posting reply, sorry about that.

Thats why it is Planetsdie, and that's why they should be making sure its a fooking good game. As there isn't anything out there the same.

But as far as games with different weapons....................

Look no further than this, on of my top games of all time! Executed perfectly!

I give you AVP2 on the PC, what a game!

AvP2: Alien Queen molt - YouTube

Not only was it 3/4/5/6 different sides, it was 3 different races, this was StarCraft2 on the ground! And its old, so what could be done now?......

And this on a massive scale would of been amazing! It should be done.

AVP was released in 1999, shit the bed I was 19, im 32 now. SO if they can pull that kind of difficult game play off then, what can they do now?, Beta will iron out any major issues, but they could be as diverse as they wanted, tweaking will go on for some time.

[BorisBlade]

Take Starcraft as a good example of how to have radically different play styles facing each other in a more or less balanced way.

Yes, but that ONLY works when you look at the empire as a whole. Not per unit which is where we actually play. When taken as a whole you have rock paper scissors or combined unit strategies etc that make em balance, but in ps you are at the per unit level. Being that one zergling is no fun when the marine comes up and kills you instantly. And so forth.

I love variation but you dont do it in a way where its " tr sux with tanks but good with air" or whatever, thats crap, then you get screwed if you play tanks as tr and its no fun, or if you play other empires you get screwed with air etc. Thats terrible gameplay.

PS1 did a fairly good job. The tanks were fairly well balanced despite different approaches. (yes teh tr one was screwed up manpower wise but worked ok otherwise) You let em have varying speeds/armor/damage etc but basically they all end up about the same in the end. Gettin too crazy like starcraft and you end up with empires wehre people only want to play certain parts of each empire. I for one would not roll tanks in an empire with weak tanks, same with any role/vehicle.

And i dont mind 3 man tanks, when they are done right, the ps1 prowler was not. I wish the Heavy tanks were pilot + 2 gunners, each gun being good not just the main gun like in ps1. Then it would/could be balanced for having high firepower and armor by requiring more manpower than weaker vehicles.

[SKYeXile]

Yea well attempting to go fully like starcraft isn’t going to happen, because yea as boris said, nobody wants to play the zergling against a super soldier with 10x HP, you would have to be stupid to design a game or add something like that.....

If they're going to mix things up it would need to stay an FPS(though melee vanu would be cool) and it needs to be balanced at at least a squad level, preferably individual.

I guess Planetside does have some diversity, but i still think we could see some differences in their progression tree's and upgrades/mods, weapon packages, perhaps empire "racials" it would add some more favour. They could even access certs/implant slots at different levels or have different implants available...(offcourse they couldn't be to OP)

But all this does have to come down to sony and they don’t have the best rack record at balancing things, and neither did blizzard until their game became popular and an esport...even now they’re still not that good at it, when every season 1 or 2 combos are vastly superior to others.

[TRex]

The Blizzard reference is quite apt I believe. SOE have a great chance to put ps2 on the map , but I wouldn't be surprised if we see World of Starcraft rear its ugly head aka titan . Blizzard lifted the warhammer franchise wholesale and made it their own baby.
Could happen:rolleyes:

[SKYeXile]

The Blizzard reference is quite apt I believe. SOE have a great chance to put ps2 on the map , but I wouldn't be surprised if we see World of Starcraft rear its ugly head aka titan . Blizzard lifted the warhammer franchise wholesale and made it their own baby.
Could happen:rolleyes:

thats what blizzard do, they take many things that are already good from other games and make them better in one nice little package.

[NapalmEnima]

1) No tech plants. Everything you have unlocked will always be available. You may have to go back to your empire foothold to pull a Galaxy (or any other Vast vehicles that might be in-game), but by and large, if you've got it, you can get it.

2) I think we're going to see a lot more empire specific Stuff this time around. I think we'll have a pretty good idea of what's what after this week with the TR info, plus whatever empire we get next (as a basis for comparison).

[TRex]

Back on topic with the original question:

I'd like to see major differences in each empire in that as a fresh basic soldier you have recognisable traits as you stated :tr = rate of fire /nc =slower with more damage /vs = versatility.
Howether , I think it would be interesting if the customisation / unlocks /cert trees allow you to tweak your own character to the point whereby your tr character could unload slow /more damge per shot weaponry etc , and have these as pre-loadable variaions within a class terminal inventory . Think of the mcg with buckshot type variation , almost mimicking the lasher orb /lash effect . That sort of thing.

[Xyntech]

Back on topic with the original question:

I'd like to see major differences in each empire in that as a fresh basic soldier you have recognisable traits as you stated :tr = rate of fire /nc =slower with more damage /vs = versatility.
Howether , I think it would be interesting if the customisation / unlocks /cert trees allow you to tweak your own character to the point whereby your tr character could unload slow /more damge per shot weaponry etc , and have these as pre-loadable variaions within a class terminal inventory . Think of the mcg with buckshot type variation , almost mimicking the lasher orb /lash effect . That sort of thing.

I think it would be pretty cool if certain sidegrades allowed your weapons to function more like the default versions of some of the other empires weapons. It would be offset by the fact that you would have to unlock them, while the other empire got them by default.

Additionally, each empire should have sidegrade options that further accentuate their own empires philosophy, so that the TR for example would be able to even further increase their rate of fire more than the normal default, while the NC and VS would never be able to reach those sidegraded rates of fire.

[TacosWLove]

Yes, yes i would :)

[Captain1nsaneo]

I'll say it again, Starcraft is an RTS, not an FPS. I still haven't been able to think of any multi player FPS's that had three extremely distinct sides that were well balanced. The closest example I can think of are the various Aliens vs Predator games, but none of them has had the kind of balance you would need in a game like Planetside.


I give you AVP2 on the PC, what a game!


I loved that game. Praetorians FTW.

As for empire balancing shenanigans if you try to make each empire have totally different stuff then you're going to mess up the balance somewhere in an FPS. You can try to have one empire be really good at a style of combat but then whichever style ends up being the most common will attract more people. I like having unique weapons for each side but I'm also glad for common pool weapons which can replace a substandard empire specific weapon.

[Traak]

Unless we get imbalances like the rotating set of buffs and nerfs of the Lasher, MCG, and Jackhammer, teamwork and fluidity should make more difference.

[TRex]

I think it would be pretty cool if certain sidegrades allowed your weapons to function more like the default versions of some of the other empires weapons. It would be offset by the fact that you would have to unlock them, while the other empire got them by default.

Additionally, each empire should have sidegrade options that further accentuate their own empires philosophy, so that the TR for example would be able to even further increase their rate of fire more than the normal default, while the NC and VS would never be able to reach those sidegraded rates of fire.

Pretty much what i was hoping for , so instead of looting a JH (which isn't a possibility now) you can switch set-ups to better match the needs of the situation, and you never just know what to expect from the opposition at any given time either.

[EASyEightyEight]

Xyntech's imaginings are the same as my own. We could modify our equipment to work largely like the standard issue rifle of our enemies, but we could also modify our weapon to be a tweaked out version of our own strengths.

But, what I really imagine happening is that our weapons themselves are the edge of whatever our strengths are (for the sake of example, we'll use the cycler.) I could give it a higher caliber ammunition, effectively shrinking magazine size and reducing accuracy, or I could put in an extended mag/drum mag for more firing capacity, or dual-mags for quick ammo type switching. I'm not exactly tweaking my weapon to shoot even faster, just longer before needing to reload, or making it more versatile in a round-about way (though this might arguably bring it closer to being a Pulsar.)

Now, regarding the higher calibur ammunition, I might want a new stock to improve accuracy. I could go with a collapsible, improving my weapon switch times, but that won't help my accuracy. What I'm basically getting at is that A TR may have to rebuild the Gauss rifle around the Cycler to have the equivalent of a stock Gauss rifle, but the NC can take their stock rifle and simply make it better in various ways.

I think this line of discussion is getting a slight bit off topic now that I think about it.

BTW, why are we so concerned with the 3rd gunner slot of the Prowler? Since when do Vanguard gunners USE their machine guns? A Magrider driver getting heavily involved in a fire fight is just asking to be murdered. That third gunner seat would be the best thing ever if the gun wasn't a crap-tastic 12mm "dual" chaingun.

[SKYeXile]

necro: So all 3 empires have been fully relieved now, with each empire having empire specific, air, tanks and infantry with much much larger differences than the first, the mag gun facing only foward as possibly the major example, are people liking it?

I like what im seeing, it all looks good on paper, I have my concerns though if SOE can balance it right and even if they do, they're is still going to be whining either way.

But i like what im seeing, each empire is looking very unique thus far. I guess next fortnight we will see nanite systems video turnaround and story and then we can get a vibe for what's the same with them all.

[Xyntech]

But i like what im seeing, each empire is looking very unique thus far. I guess next fortnight we will see nanite systems video turnaround and story and then we can get a vibe for what's the same with them all.

Oh that's right, Nanite Systems. I don't know why I wasn't thinking of that. That absolutely makes sense as the next theme week.

Get a turntable of maybe a sunderer and a galaxy, or maybe a lib. Get a better look at some of those NS weapons we have been seeing glimpses of.

That actually will be pretty kick ass.

Now that common pool equipment can be customized with ES options, I'm much more interested in it.