Bailing mechanics

[sylphaen]

Hi everyone,

I am starting a simple thread to exchange opinions on how each of us thinks bailing from vehicles should work in PS2. Feel free to share !

____________________________

I'll start with my opinions: I felt that the bailing mechanism in PS1 was balanced in most vehicles and broken on some others.

What I liked:
- entering and exiting vehicles is not instant
- bailing animation when you bailed gave a chance for the defender to prepare or keep an advantage on the bailer: this made bailing more risky to use offensively.
- heavy vehicles forced you to have medium armor (i.e. less equipment) and would not allow the driver to bail.
- lighter vehicles like buggies benefited greatly from allowing RECO/bailing and fit the role of a light reconaissance vehicles were troopers have to get in/out often. It balanced their weakness in armor and made them less of a coffin.

What I did NOT like:
- air vehicles who could:
a. try to farm you
b. bail on you if they failed and have a chance for an easy kill with the vehicle explosion
c. pull out their heavy assault weapon if all else failed. By then, you were already quite damaged and made the whole slow and excrutiating death all the more frustrating.

I feel that air vehicles, for being already so powerful, should have been allowed to bail but be limited to standard armor and no-HA.

- the ATV bails with lag: the teleporting glitch made it just suck. I also feel that being able to shoot at the driver instead of having the ATV soaking damage would have made this more fun. It would have been nice on buggies too.

- Bailing at high speed without taking damage from it also gave kind of strange dynamics: ram/bail/finish him. (FYI, I used those so I'm not trying to criticize anyone using those, just saying it feels off)



Other thoughts:
- I played to BF2142 again a bit to guess what a mix of PS and BF would be and instantly getting in/out of vehicles is a very f***** frustrating mechanic, I find. Especially with the instant ownership switch of the vehicle. I find that PS1 was very well designed on that regarded:
a. first there was the hack time delay before switch of ownership: you could prevent it but it was also subtle enough that you be taken by surprise.
b. then, there was a small animation time as you got kicked out of the vehicle and the hacker got in. In a big fight, it gave a short for everyone around to realize that something was wrong yet it was short enough to give the hacker plenty of time to be rewarded for his skill.
- The faster TTK in BF2142 can be frustrating at times. I sometimes don't even realize what killed me unless I look at the log. I think a short TTK would feel very very frustrating in a large battle like those we had in PS.
- The titan assault play is still fun. It would definitely need to be larger in PS if such an idea is brought in the game. Short TTK, FF on and small corridors = cleaning a hallway with one shotgun clip.


As I said, just some thoughts ! Thank you for reading !

[Bags]

You have rexo. They have agile. You do the math.

Regardless, even if they couldn't bail they can just crash into you.

Your biggest complaint is with netcode, really.

[Traak]

If you bail within half a mile of the ground, your NanoRocketBoosterOMGPack lowers you to the Earth.

If you bail a half mile or higher, your rocket pack runs out and you start falling to the surface at an accelerated pace.

You can't draw a weapon, in fact, before you hit the ground or splatter on it, you can't do anything but enjoy the view.

The rocket pack slowly lowers you to the surface while giving off a telltale triple flare visible from across the continent.

Since this takes up all the room on your back, you can carry a knife with you, and nothing else, or maybe a pistol with one clip in it. No rifle, no flamethrower, no sniper uber OMGzz weapons. Nothing that can be used to initiate the uber-gheyness Orbital Strike, assuming they hate the playerbase enough to include it in this game.

If you are a pilot, your'e a pilot. The plane is your weapon. If you don't want to get hurt, then stay in the plane.

Pilots shouldn't be able to jump out to engage in grunt combat any more than a grunt should be able to lose his shotgun, and remedy it by whipping out a plane and flying away.

[Mastachief]

Should be ejection seats, so it never fails to work. Takes ages to land and a few seconds to exit the pod/seat.

[Mirror]

Lots of players will have an opinion on this as Im sure they will have been farmed by many players bailing from aircraft or just aircraft in general.

I'll just point this out. It doesnt matter what is improved, nerfed, buffed, simplified, given out for free or removed from the game because bad or average players will still get farmed by the better players. Rather than complaining about it do the right thing and focus on improving.

[SKYeXile]

Lots of players will have an opinion on this as Im sure they will have been farmed by many players bailing from aircraft or just aircraft in general.

I'll just point this out. It doesnt matter what is improved, nerfed, buffed, simplified, given out for free or removed from the game because bad or average players will still get farmed by the better players. Rather than complaining about it do the right thing and focus on improving.

Agiles with HA owning my HA/rexo/PS, ITS NOT FAIR.

[Traak]

bad or average players will still get farmed by the better players.

That doesn't change the fact that bailure was a broken gameplay mechanic.

Wow. My MAX suit is close to death. I better bail out of it in my Heavy Assault gear now.

Nah. Bailure is failure.

[Lonehunter]

The ONLY concern I have at this point is being able to bail when my craft is at low health. If they put another damn lock on bailing I got 10 people who are gonna say "fuck it" after I just got them excited from seeing good screens.

If you can't bail at low life then why allow bailing at all? It only encourages hot dropping and wasting a vehicle.

I can see there should be ways to balance it though, while dropping you can use no weapons, you must be very visible (the blue streak from bailing in PS1 was avoidable to prevent detection). I also think we should fall slower, helps us guide our landing and gives that enemy pilot 1 last chance to take us out. Parachutes seem to archaic for PS, but I'm sure something could work.

[Xyntech]

I like the ejection seat idea for aircraft, especially if the pod is vulnerable to being destroyed mid air before it lands. Gives the pilot one last ditch option to try and survive, but in a lot of situations they will be as good as dead anyways.

No more easy bailing onto bases and towers either. Leave the hot dropping to galaxies.

I think PS2 is already moving in the right direction though, with the fact that only rexo will be able to use HA. Combined with the most important part as Bags mentioned, improved netcode, I think the ability to abuse netcode will go down.

As a pilot, I'd prefer not to have enemy pilots bail the moment they started to lose a dog fight and chase me off with a striker.

[EASyEightyEight]

I'm still for removing bailing, but instead having pilots lose control and they crash land. Depending on variables, they could climb out of a scrap heap with a few bumps and bruises, or be char-broiled alive in the satisfying explosion sparked upon impact with the ground. Would make things a bit more epic for the downed pilot in my opinion anyway.

Good news is, either way, I wouldn't expect pilots to be bailing with a rocket launcher or heavy weapon this time around. At best they may be packing a typical shotgun or rifle, making them minimal threats to the victor. Easy pickings.

[FastAndFree]

The Ejection Seat should be a piece of equipment that either degrades the performance of the plane (reduced agility due to mass or less ammo capacity or whatever) or replaces something actually useful for combat.

That way those who want to use their aircav as a flying taxi can do so, while those of us who want to use them for what they were actually meant will get an edge. (Or just remove it outright, but I guess that's wishful thinking)

With respawning crews an ejection system does not serve a combat purpose anyway - strategically it makes more sense to have the pilots die the moment their craft is disabled/destroyed so they can be back in the air faster.

edit
Then again, I guess it is inevitable that those who want to piss their opponents off by denying them BEP/killcount/satisfaction will find a way to do so anyway (example, a few days ago a TR Reaver pilot must have had his ejection seat fail, because he flew his craft into the ground and rocketspammed himself to death. You know who you are.), so anti-bailing measures would mostly only inconvenience the "rapid response spec ops whatever" kind of aircav users

[Dahlian]

Bailing out is very nice for immersion. One of the reasons I liked good ol Battlezone was the whole experience of being catapulted into the air when my hover craft exploded.

I could see it as a customizing option for most vehicles. I don't think it should be free or standard option. It definitely needs a negative edge to it.

[CutterJohn]

Not really a fan of bailing. Its not like any other vehicle type got the instant chance at living. Sure you could bail out of ground vehicles, but then you're just a softy in the field right next to your dead vehicle, and most ground vehicles were perfectly capable of handling that. Most air and AA, on the other hand, were not. Its like a get out of the enemies sights free card, or even more annoying, deny the enemy the kill card.

So.. If you want to keep bailing, thats fine, but imo make it take a few seconds to land, during which time AA can track you just fine. Flak impacts you. And once you land, its no instant switch to offense. Its then much harder to use to deny kills, harder to use as an instant transformation into an AA MAX hunter, but can still be used by fast response.

[Traak]

In other words, deny the rewards of cowardice, and the cowardly actions will not be as prevalent.

[Xyntech]

Killing vehicles should also count for a lot.

Maybe killing a vehicle within 5 seconds of it being occupied counts as the exact same amount of XP as you would get for killing it with someone in it and also counts towards your kills. At that point, you may actually be hoping a pilot bails so that you can double up on kills and xp.

After 5 seconds of no occupants, the vehicle no longer counts towards your kills and starts slowly reducing in how much xp you get for killing it until it reaches the base level of experience that you get for killing any empty vehicle. Maybe about a minute of being empty until it reaches that minimum?

Edit: would also be funny, to fuck with K/D whores who are bailing to try to avoid getting a death, if having your aircraft destroyed within 5 seconds of you exiting it still counted towards your number of deaths. You are still alive, so it isn't quite as bad as dying, but you still don't get to keep that inflated K/D ratio :D

[dm Akolyte]

Lots of players will have an opinion on this as Im sure they will have been farmed by many players bailing from aircraft or just aircraft in general.

I'll just point this out. It doesnt matter what is improved, nerfed, buffed, simplified, given out for free or removed from the game because bad or average players will still get farmed by the better players. Rather than complaining about it do the right thing and focus on improving.

Funny how this argument invariably comes from the people who abuse the mechanics.

[Traak]

Go one better. If you bail and your vehicle is blown up within five seconds, you die also, whether your vehicle hit a cliff or whatever. You die.

Or, any vehicle that is bailed from immediately alters its trajectory, or better yet, decons, and becomes incapable of harming anyone. I think I like this one very well.

[TRex]

Funny how this argument invariably comes from the people who abuse the mechanics.

He wasn't making an arguement , just stating a fact .Playing the game isn't abusing anything.
I'll put it another way , the likes of Mirror hot drops from a mossie onto a tower and he stands a pretty good chance of taking quite a few folk out that he meets in said tower , maybe even hacking and capping the tower.
Turn that around and someone drops from a mossie onto a tower that Mirror happens to be in at the time. I'd say there's a pretty good chance said dropper never makes it to the cc ,probably barely through top doorway.
There's a big difference , and its not the mechanics .

[Bags]

It's because Mirror is dirty VS and their armor blinds everyone.

[dm Akolyte]

He wasn't making an arguement , just stating a fact .Playing the game isn't abusing anything.
I'll put it another way , the likes of Mirror hot drops from a mossie onto a tower and he stands a pretty good chance of taking quite a few folk out that he meets in said tower , maybe even hacking and capping the tower.
Turn that around and someone drops from a mossie onto a tower that Mirror happens to be in at the time. I'd say there's a pretty good chance said dropper never makes it to the cc ,probably barely through top doorway.
There's a big difference , and its not the mechanics .
Yeah, abusing was the wrong word.

Point is, the mossie is *already* broken as an infantry farming unit if used correctly, and bailing basically adds another life on top of that.

And the people who disagree will nearly ALWAYS be the people who reap heaps and heaps of kills with this tactic and think it's just because they are SO MUCH better than anyone else who plays.

[Mirror]

Yeah, abusing was the wrong word.

Point is, the mossie is *already* broken as an infantry farming unit if used correctly, and bailing basically adds another life on top of that.

And the people who disagree will nearly ALWAYS be the people who reap heaps and heaps of kills with this tactic and think it's just because they are SO MUCH better than anyone else who plays.

You should get together with Figgy as he goes on about this aswell.

Going by your logic all vehicles should either be removed or once you enter any vehicle you cant leave because it would give the user a second life.

If you get farmed by vehicles then you are doing something wrong. This is the same for the people that complain about the aircraft from PS1, if you get farmed by aircraft then go cert AA max, take AV with you or use a vehicle to travel.

I have always wondered if the people that complained about aircraft are the people that think it was awesome to footzerg in agile and then rage at the person who killed them who was using an aircraft.

[SgtMAD]

You should get together with Figgy as he goes on about this aswell.

Going by your logic all vehicles should either be removed or once you enter any vehicle you cant leave because it would give the user a second life.

If you get farmed by vehicles then you are doing something wrong. This is the same for the people that complain about the aircraft from PS1, if you get farmed by aircraft then go cert AA max, take AV with you or use a vehicle to travel.

I have always wondered if the people that complained about aircraft are the people that think it was awesome to footzerg in agile and then rage at the person who killed them who was using an aircraft.

Dude,i know you and i have never really gotten "along" during PS but I do agree with what you have to say most of the time on these forums

now screw you. LOL

Tell Dart hi

[dm Akolyte]

You should get together with Figgy as he goes on about this aswell.

Going by your logic all vehicles should either be removed or once you enter any vehicle you cant leave because it would give the user a second life.

If you get farmed by vehicles then you are doing something wrong. This is the same for the people that complain about the aircraft from PS1, if you get farmed by aircraft then go cert AA max, take AV with you or use a vehicle to travel.

I have always wondered if the people that complained about aircraft are the people that think it was awesome to footzerg in agile and then rage at the person who killed them who was using an aircraft.


Right, because only one infantry build should be usable outdoors.

If you weren't *actively hunting armor* the entire time you were oudoors you were merely prey.

Even if you *specialized* to hunt mossies (as a grunt) you had about a 50/50 chance against one... if they were mediocre. If they were *good* you were boned most of the time.

Mossies were (are):
the most effective infantry killers
the most effective a2a platform
the most effective single person transport
the most effective scouting platform


The faster and more mobile a vehicle is, the more powerful a bailout mechanic comes for them.

Bailouts were just another broken feature of the mossie.

[xSlideShow]

Right, because only one infantry build should be usable outdoors.

If you weren't *actively hunting armor* the entire time you were oudoors you were merely prey.

Even if you *specialized* to hunt mossies (as a grunt) you had about a 50/50 chance against one... if they were mediocre. If they were *good* you were boned most of the time.

Mossies were (are):
the most effective infantry killers
the most effective a2a platform
the most effective single person transport
the most effective scouting platform


The faster and more mobile a vehicle is, the more powerful a bailout mechanic comes for them.

Bailouts were just another broken feature of the mossie.

Your an infantry against a big plane... You should be at a disadvantage... 50/50 is pretty good odds for a person vs a helicopter... I dunno... Only reason the were considered a good A2A is cause you'd be on an even playing field with the guy your fighting.

Edit- How would not have a good chance if your the one hunting? You get your first set of flak off no? You only have to get one more set of flak off while he still has to turn around and shoot you. You just stand still while he's shooting?

What you guys are asking is to remove a complete play style from the game. Agile hot drops were some of the most fun times I had in planetside. Being able to drop on a base get inside and cause as much damage as I could without the need to have a giant box of "Hey I'm over here Ima be there is a minute!"

Hot dropping should definitely be in the game in some way. It's also one of the big things, that for you "It's the lifeforce of planetside people" Made we want to play the game... As we already no you won't be able to use Heavy assault weaponry in Light Assault so just make restrictions to what you can carry while flying.

Asking to remove hot dropping altogether or making it a worthless mechanic is removing an entire play style. And saying that my playstyle was no fun for other people. I disagree cause again I loved fighting hot droppers...

It's also a pretty important mechanic for anyone trying to resecure a base. It allowed for a VERY large distraction for enemy air/people outside. Forcing them to take care of the situation of the lone agile going in.

[Lonehunter]

I still don't understand why people think we should stay in an aircraft and just accept being defeated by a superior enemy. This is not a common practice on the internet lol
In a standard shooter if a guy gets the jump on me I don't just stop moving and let him kill me. I duck, turn around and try to finish him first.

[Traak]

What you guys are asking is to remove a complete play style from the game.

Yeah. You finally noticed that. It's what we want. Hot-dropping to be removed. Bailing, restricted to your slowly descending ejection seat while you show up on every available spectrum, visible, radar, and anything else is your reward for failing at being a pilot.

Not using the plane as a V-1 to destroy huge groups of enemies while gaily alighting from the cockpit, raining AV and HA death on others.

We don't need flying BFR/cruise missile/guided missile/second suit of armor. This game is not Gundam:Reloaded.

You fail at being a pilot, and your plane gets taken out, then you die. Or you can bail and be the most obvious and easy-to-kill thing in the whole battlespace, not another while life as an HA/SA/AV dropper.

Take your pick. Pilot or grunt. Choose your medium, air or ground. One class of people, pilots, being gifted the uber-flying-farmer-suit was, is, and always will be unbalanced.

Find a new playstyle that you can have fun with that isn't.

[CutterJohn]

I still don't understand why people think we should stay in an aircraft and just accept being defeated by a superior enemy. This is not a common practice on the internet lol
In a standard shooter if a guy gets the jump on me I don't just stop moving and let him kill me. I duck, turn around and try to finish him first.

Mossie v AA max.

AA max has the mossie dead to rights. Mossie pilot bails over AA max. Instantly transforming from prey to predator. This apparently is fine. Ok.

Lets apply this to another unit. Lets say I have an AA max, and one of my counters, a rexo with AV, comes after me. Great. Now I'm about to die, so I hit a button and bail out of my max into agile + ha. This mechanic would generate enough rage to power a small city, even though it is fundamentally the same exact thing.


I'm fine with bailing. Just let me track the ejection seat/falling pilot with AA, and don't let them hit the ground gunning. Gal drops can have fancy drop cloaks if AA is an issue. It shouldn't be an instant get out of jail free card that makes your enemy suddenly unable to kill you or that you hit with no hope of accomplishing anything useful just to deny them the kill.

[xSlideShow]

Yeah. You finally noticed that. It's what we want. Hot-dropping to be removed. Bailing, restricted to your slowly descending ejection seat while you show up on every available spectrum, visible, radar, and anything else is your reward for failing at being a pilot.

Not using the plane as a V-1 to destroy huge groups of enemies while gaily alighting from the cockpit, raining AV and HA death on others.

We don't need flying BFR/cruise missile/guided missile/second suit of armor. This game is not Gundam:Reloaded.

You fail at being a pilot, and your plane gets taken out, then you die. Or you can bail and be the most obvious and easy-to-kill thing in the whole battlespace, not another while life as an HA/SA/AV dropper.

Take your pick. Pilot or grunt. Choose your medium, air or ground. One class of people, pilots, being gifted the uber-flying-farmer-suit was, is, and always will be unbalanced.

Find a new playstyle that you can have fun with that isn't.

I'm pretty sure hot dropping has nothing to with BFRs... Since You know you can't bail from them but maybe I'm wrong...

Hot dropping was not OP in anyway. What your COMPLAINING about is the few instances when you couldn't kill them with AA? I never had to bail because of AA shooting at me and if I got low enough to where I needed to bail normally I couldn't. The instances you guys keep citing are from times when some would carry an AV gun such as a striker in there piloting loadout? 90% of the people who hot dropped carried deci's which if I remember to use them correctly to hit a plane you had to camera mode which left you vunerable.

You need fast responders. And fast responders need hot drop. This has nothing to do with piloting. I'm talking even talking about A2A or A2G combat I'm am saying that removing the ability to hot drop in a way similar to it's current would be killing fast responders. Unless you can spawn in anywhere now. And tubes never go down.

Your trying to remove a game play mechanic that was crucial in everyones fun. Not just the person "abusing it".

Mossie v AA max.

AA max has the mossie dead to rights. Mossie pilot bails over AA max. Instantly transforming from prey to predator. This apparently is fine. Ok.

Lets apply this to another unit. Lets say I have an AA max, and one of my counters, a rexo with AV, comes after me. Great. Now I'm about to die, so I hit a button and bail out of my max into agile + ha. This mechanic would generate enough rage to power a small city, even though it is fundamentally the same exact thing.

After the agile bails the max still has the advantage of being able to turn on run mode and peace out. While the agile is now a sitting duck in the sense he has to run back to his base or get slain anyway. And since I'm assuming the AA max knows better than to sit in an area where he has no help. The agile is probably gonna die real quick.

[CutterJohn]

You need fast responders. And fast responders need hot drop. This has nothing to do with piloting. I'm talking even talking about A2A or A2G combat I'm am saying that removing the ability to hot drop in a way similar to it's current would be killing fast responders. Unless you can spawn in anywhere now. And tubes never go down.

A fast response unit does not require a period of near invulnerability while falling, nor does it require near instant battle readiness when they hit the ground.

Fast responders do not deserve the ability to, with near 100% certainty, put boots on the ground of their destination regardless of the enemies defenses as you can do in PS1. If they have AA up, you need to deal with that first. Or not trickle in one at a time.

[xSlideShow]

A fast response unit does not require a period of near invulnerability while falling, nor does it require near instant battle readiness when they hit the ground.

Fast responders do not deserve the ability to, with near 100% certainty, put boots on the ground of their destination regardless of the enemies defenses as you can do in PS1. If they have AA up, you need to deal with that first. Or not trickle in one at a time.

That's the point of the faster responder though is it not? To bypass the enemies defense to cause the large distraction so that the main force can penetrate the line. Your guy's solution this problem are way to drastic. Your asking to remove the guys weapon? I'm ok with a slower freefall it would make sense. But all this remove the mechanic all together and make it so they can't carry any weaponry is ridiculous imo.

[Traak]

The agile is probably gonna die real quick.

LOL, Yeah, never, once, saw that happen. What I did see is pilots bail and send a string of strikers or a few decimator shots into the max on the way down, or continue to shoot the max with their HA on the way down.

Yeah, no. You are just patently lying. Then lying. After that you are lying. On top of that, you are lying.

As I said, you fly a plane, you get jammies and a knife. If you get shot down, then too bad, you sucked as a pilot and need to die for the betterment of the species.

Awarding pilots with the bailure just sucks. I don't expect that Sony would be stupid enough to put it in the new game.

The game doesn't need your vaunted fast responders if no one is a bailure-capable pilot/AV/HA/flying BFR/aeromech that can travel faster than everyone else in the game.

If you bail from your plane, you should be unarmed. The plane was your weapon, sorry you lost it. Try not to suck so bad next time.

Next.

[xSlideShow]

LOL, Yeah, never, once, saw that happen. What I did see is pilots bail and send a string of strikers or a few decimator shots into the max on the way down, or continue to shoot the max with their HA on the way down.

Yeah, no. You are just patently lying. Then lying. After that you are lying. On top of that, you are lying.

As I said, you fly a plane, you get jammies and a knife. If you get shot down, then too bad, you sucked as a pilot and need to die for the betterment of the species.

Awarding pilots with the bailure just sucks. I don't expect that Sony would be stupid enough to put it in the new game.

The game doesn't need your vaunted fast responders if no one is a bailure-capable pilot/AV/HA/flying BFR/aeromech that can travel faster than everyone else in the game.

If you bail from your plane, you should be unarmed. The plane was your weapon, sorry you lost it. Try not to suck so bad next time.

Next.



If didn't see my example happen then the AA max must have been bad in which case... Umm isn't your "You need to die cause your bad" in effect here? Prove where I lied please? Try getting a base resecured without fast responders.

[CutterJohn]

No, the point of fast response is to get back somewhere behind the lines and respond to a threat back there. Responding to hacks and gen holds on your bases, or an LLU run sometimes. If they have defenses set up, coordinate better.

Its not to be able to, with near 100% certainty, land on top of any piece of real estate on the map with zero prior planning and zero teamwork being necessary, merely because you can outrun the AA for the few moments you are visible by being at the flight ceiling and using afterburners, then instantly convert to a form virtually invulnerable to AA in order to effect your landing.

I have no issues with hot dropping, or carrying a weapon. But it is far too easy and far too effective as a method of depositing your carcass where it needs to be. Bailing needs downsides and vulnerability to fire.

[xSlideShow]

No, the point of fast response is to get back somewhere behind the lines and respond to a threat back there. Responding to hacks and gen holds on your bases, or an LLU run sometimes.

Its not to be able to, with near 100% certainty, land on top of any piece of real estate on the map with zero prior planning and zero teamwork being necessary, merely because you can outrun the AA for the few moments you are visible, then instantly convert to a form virtually invulnerable to AA in order to effect your landing.

There is a lot of planning that goes into hot droppping infact. If they had AA you had to plan your drop the timing. The location the trajectory... It's not OMG MY BASE IZ HACKZ I NED TA GET THUR! ALT-G! I WINZ!!! YAYZ!!! You guys are all speaking from a perspective that hasn't even played from other point of view. Your problems are easily solved with locking out the bailing mechanism early. Wouldn't bother my play style any.

[CutterJohn]

Have you ever spent time in an AA max? I got kills from people trying to attack. They had to take a few moments to find targets and line up an attack run, thus making themselves vulnerable. It was rare to kill people just trying to bail. Come in at flight ceiling, or from behind a hill, and unless someone was perfectly positioned to catch them, they'd be out of the vehicle before AA caught up.

Versus VS - Starfire had the crappiest range. Power in, bail. A few orbs may have hit by then if they were on the ball.

Vs NC - Sparrow had a long lock time. Several extra seconds before they even got to fire. Commonly bailed before I got a lock, or only had one or two missiles off.

Vs TR - Incredibly difficult to hit stuff at the flight ceiling with the flak. Some random dodging and weaving would get them there.

[xSlideShow]

Have you ever spent time in an AA max? I got kills from people trying to attack. They had to take a few moments to find targets and line up an attack run, thus making themselves vulnerable. It was rare to kill people just trying to bail. Come in at flight ceiling, or from behind a hill, and unless someone was perfectly positioned to catch them, they'd be out of the vehicle before AA caught up.

Versus VS - Starfire had the crappiest range. Power in, bail. A few orbs may have hit by then if they were on the ball.

Vs NC - Sparrow had a long lock time. Several extra seconds before they even got to fire. Commonly bailed before I got a lock, or only had one or two missiles off.

Vs TR - Incredibly difficult to hit stuff at the flight ceiling with the flak. Some random dodging and weaving would get them there.

I've played all of the maxes. Not quite extensively as some of the other play style cause I thought it was boring. But I never died from some one bailing on top of me. If they tried I simply turned on run mode and ran for cover or nearest friendly. Most Hot droppers come in low it's less of a chance for the enemy to react. And what you were describing for the Hot droppers that's the exactly what I mean by the pre planning before dropping. It's not just some simple task... Not that it was particularly hard to do but it definitely took practice. I don't know how many times I tryed to show people how to play and bailing was the single hardest thing for them to comprehend.

[Traak]

If you bail, you fail. Not get rewarded by being able to spray others with another whole class of assault weapons. Imbalanced. Stupid.

Having an entire other class of assault at your disposal as your reward for losing your airplane? Nah.

That is like popping out of your MAX in Heavy Assault armor and weapons just before it loses the last of its armor. Or jumping out of a vehicle you are driving on the ground in an AV max.

You want fast responders? I want flying MAXes that have infinite range, shoot orbital strikes, and are invulnerable. The game doesn't need overpowered bailure to satisfy people's desire to look heroic by exploiting it.

Pilots get to fly in basic clothes and have a knife. That's it. You lose your plane, well, then you suck at being a pilot, I guess. If you want people to respond quickly, do something that is entirely against the selfish nature: work as a team and fly them there in a Galaxy. There. Fast response.

Bailure is failure. It needs to never be in the game again.

[TRex]

A slightly sideways squew to the thread , but it would be nice if the anti-air mechanic was air itself . Bring the philiosophy of teamwork ie class system to the air . Liberator /galaxies needing mossie /reaver/ scythe support to be effective , and opposing forces needing air defence .

Vehicles could have some anti-air loadout , but make it so the fast moving air defence have no or little effectiveness against troops on the ground unless they are clustered, in which case the liberator would be much better , but have little defence against air.

No AA maxes , let air be a true dogfighting area and control of skies allowed heavy air ordinance guys to do their work , or get troops in via galaxies.

I've always advocated the idea of a high-in-the- sky communications link tower ( and landing platform) directly above a base central building with a direct link to the radar capabilities of the soi. Not fixed 'structure -wise' to the building , but via an energy beam and floating high at ceiling height. So from ground you could see if the beam was broken . Hack it, then get back in air to defend it . Or, it could be the first line of attack and defence of a base.

Take that to a continent wide ethos, and taking out radar platforms to adjacent bases or the whole continent prior to attacking brings a whole sub-game to the air superiority of an outfit or faction.

Give air , and especially mossies, something tangeable to do against other air to protect the troops and vehicles on the ground .Their own 'victory flag' in the up-link . Dropping the radar of the soi could allow engineers to put turrets inside enemy base soi ,effectively removing the soi.

[Traak]

I have a better idea. Make AAmaxes more lethal, and make planes physically impossible of damaging anyone or anything on the ground.

In other words, your idea, just exactly opposite.

[Trolltaxi]

How it should (have) work(ed)...

1. Timer for the veichle starts when your previous one is destroyed. (No more "I spent 5 mins mid-air, I have a new mossie waiting for me!")

2. It applies to even to "higher tier" variants. If you lose your reaver (PS1), you shouldn't get the mossie till your timer is finished. No lightning for some mins if you loose your MBT. No more "Damn, lost the mossie, time to get my reaver again!"

3. Your timer (5 mins) is raised by the armour % of your previous veichle left. So if you bail from an intact mossie, it takes (+100%) 10 mins to get a new one. (and same goes for variants). "Wasting the hard-earned resources of your Empire, soldier? Who the f***ck do you thing you are???!!! Now get those crates to dock "Z" and DO IT NOW!!!" - Quartermaster Jake Duffy

On the other hand, just send those aircrafts, guys, my AA-max is getting bored unless you come to die! :)

[Traak]

3. Your timer (5 mins) is raised by the armour % of your previous veichle left. So if you bail from an intact mossie, it takes (+100%) 10 mins to get a new one. (and same goes for variants). "Wasting the hard-earned resources of your Empire, soldier? Who the f***ck do you thing you are???!!! Now get those crates to dock "Z" and DO IT NOW!!!" - Quartermaster Jake Duffy

LOL I needed that. Been working hard today.

[TRex]

I have a better idea. Make AAmaxes more lethal, and make planes physically impossible of damaging anyone or anything on the ground.

In other words, your idea, just exactly opposite.

I'd have no problem with that , as long as all aircraft cant damage anything on the ground bar AA max , and have a guided lock-on default rocket system to take out AA maxes on their radar. Balance.

The thread was about bailing from aircraft , my proposition was to remove any inclination of bailing on the pilots behalf. If there's aircraft capable of damaging troops on the ground ie liberators or bombers , I proposed growing a pair , jumping in a mossie/reaver/scythe and countering that threat.

Even proposed a tactical objective to give air a meaning to exist beyond farming troops on the ground.

If there's little hover /flying camera type of aircraft in the game , its going to take real skill to attack individual grunts on the ground , which invariably reduces its possibility of being a regular occurance overall.

Not to mention the maps will have all changed and cover / topography make it also a lot harder in areas to even allow this to happen.

In certain situations , AA max were a necessary counter .
The thing that niggles me is that it's always a whine that a pilot bails then lands with AV out and kills the max. If the aircraft was a mossie , then the pilot has only 2 defence against that , bail and kill the max, or run away.
Ironically, once the pilot has bailed , the same scenario rings true , and the max (if he's any sense ) runs away.
Either way , the max has achieved his objective and removed the air threat from the area.
But the max hasn't, because , just like the mossie pilot (who probably recieved a crap load of bullshit via/tell) he's there for one reason and one reason only : to frag kills .
When it all goes pear shaped ,that's no fair!
If the max was there protecting his fellow grunts on the ground , then that falling pilot would be met with cohesive resistance and the max could be repaired or even rezzed.
But in most cases the max in stuck on a hill in the middle of nowhere because its easier to ambush some unsuspecting pilot , and there's no soldiers on foot to be seen for half a mile.It's just sour grapes.
It's no arguement for either AA max or the pilot , they're both there for similar reasons, just that one whines and cries foul all the time about it.

The fact that mossie farming is OP is true , but to be footzerging out in the open you should expect to be an easy prey. Bombers and aircraft in the real world are there to inflict damage to the ground and counter other air.

I'm all for balance gameplay , teamwork , and for anyone with dedicated roles within the game to have a place. No supersoldiers , no 'I win' set of certs to cover all situations.
If I die to a more skilled opponent , or my own stupidity (ie footzerging in open) , I quote Mirror above : learn and improve. I don't throw the baby out with the bath water and cry nerf. Adapt and overcome. If your a crap pilot , either get in an aircraft and learn to be better, or stay indoors or use a vehicle.

[SgtMAD]

yea lets have more vehs nerfed even before the game is released

air can't kill anything on the ground? that's the stupidest thing i have read in this thread so far.

they did this crap in PS1,nerfing tank rounds so we had ppl eating a 150 shell and walking away.

if this idea that I don't like it so nerf it or I don't want to have to deal with it so nerf it crap doesn't stop now PS2 will see the same long term results as PS,with every silly nerf comes another mass exodus of players.

if you are dumb enough to try and run around out in the open in a battlefield you deserve to die.

[EASyEightyEight]

Getting the vibe everyone expects more of the same with PS2 if bailing is allowed.

...Except only heavy armors can wield rocket launchers and miniguns in PS2, and I'm not under the impression heavy armors can pilot anything. Essentially, the bailure will be a meek little agile with a rifle or a sweeper. At worst, a sniper/cloaker.

[Mirror]

Dude,i know you and i have never really gotten "along" during PS but I do agree with what you have to say most of the time on these forums

now screw you. LOL

Tell Dart hi

<3

I wont turn this into a luv in here but thanks, always a good fight against your groups.

And I'll pass the message on. :)

[SgtMAD]

Getting the vibe everyone expects more of the same with PS2 if bailing is allowed.

...Except only heavy armors can wield rocket launchers and miniguns in PS2, and I'm not under the impression heavy armors can pilot anything. Essentially, the bailure will be a meek little agile with a rifle or a sweeper. At worst, a sniper/cloaker.

if you start making sense here , they will boot you LOL

actually we have already thought up something to abuse besides hotdropping,just waiting for beta to do a little "research"

[Bags]

Heavy armor can drive ground vehicles, IIRC. Not 100% sure.

[EASyEightyEight]

Heavy armor can drive ground vehicles, IIRC. Not 100% sure.

Yeah but... they're on the ground, and the vehicle likely has to come to a dead stop first. Even if they escape successfully, they're just another shell away from oblivion.

The issue with this thread are jack-asses bailing out of an aircraft over a base/tower armed to take on Skynet.

[Bags]

I just asked Higby, he says currently they can but in the future they will probably add armor restrictions.

[Traak]

MAX's driving buggies. Especially AA/AI maxes driving AA buggies. (New maxes can have 2 weapons) Now THAT would be balanced against bailures.

Pilot gets to farm infantry ad nauseum, attacks AA buggy that is shooting at him, just before it blows up, AAMAX jumps out while buggy is moving at top speed, and lands, stationary, and continues firing at the plane. Pilot, shrieking about how unfair it is for someone else to be able to bail, and only sissy pilots should be able to, while equipped with the heaviest AV and AI weapons in the game, and just before his plane blows up (as usual) he bails and attacks MAX with his AV, then AI assault weaponry. MAX blows him to shreds with his AI weaponry.

There you go. Balance. Pilot has mobility, an entire planeload of weapons, plus his AV and AI weapons when he bails, MAX has armor and firepower, both AA and AI.

Or they could just dispense with all that and give pilots a knife and that's it.

[Xyntech]

Or they could just dispense with all that and give pilots a knife and that's it.

You could try posting a reasonable opinion now and then. People may actually start caring about what you say.

It sounds like half the problem is already solved if classes that can pilot aircraft are unable to carry HA or AV weapons.

I still wouldn't mind the effectiveness of bailing be reduced a bit further.

Maybe make it so that you bail at a random time shortly after you hit the eject button, anywhere from 2 to 4 seconds after you hit it. That way you wouldn't be able to bail out the exact second that you were about to die and you also wouldn't be able to precision drop on the exact spot you want to land.

HA and AV aside, that would take care of two of the biggest abuses of bailing.

[sylphaen]

Just to clarify a few things:
- FYI, I do suck at flying reavers/mosquitoes in PS1. However, it's not because I fail at flying that I do not appreciate the good players who know how to fly and dominate with those vehicles.
- You guys focused a lot on bailing from aircraft but this thread is not limited to those vehicles.
- I'm pretty sure that without even getting into bailing mechanics, talking about reaver/mosquito balance would be a very heated debate.


Concerning bailing, I tend to stand with the "pilot limited to low-caliber equipment" crowd. Low armor, maybe a small machine gun or just a handgun and that's it.

If vehicles are viable in PS2 and that you are a good player with them, I don't see how making bail an escape/defense move more than an offensive move would be a problem. In theory, you would have shot down a lot of players before you have to bail and that would more than compensate for an armor/weapon strength limit. If you do not need to get out of your vehicle to be powerful and own footzerg, why should you also be powerful when you get your second life ? (this is valid for both air&ground btw)

The one big difference there was between ground and air in PS1 was jammers. They were great to neutralize a vehicle and buy troopers some time. Good luck with jamming air vehicles though, even if they are close.

Concerning the hotdropping playstyle, wouldn't something like the phantasm fill that role ? Or does it have to be a solo-vehicle with a gun ?


In a way, I think BR40 kind of led to this and maybe the kits limit will make things more streamlined in PS2.

If PS2 vehicles are easy to shoot down though, bailing would have to be proportionately more useful. Hard to tell at the moment.
:(

In any case, thanks eveyone for your participation !
:thumbsup:

[Metalsheep]

I think that bailing should be allowed, but you should only be allowed to bail if your plane has 30% or less HP. Bailing is ment to save the pilots life, not let him drop on towers or onto softies. (Passengers not included, Gal/Phant passengers can bail any time. Only Pilots have this restriction.)

I also think that if you let your plane drop below 20% you lose control of the aircraft and start to plummet to the ground, forceing either an emergency landing, or the pilot to bail.

This gives the pilot a window to safely bail, then eaither puts the pilot at risk if he chooses not to bail from his flameing deathtrap, or kills him. And with the aircraft loseing control at around 20%, it reduces the pilots ability to just kamikazi his aircraft into the softy that he was trying to farm.

[SKYeXile]

Concerning the hotdropping playstyle, wouldn't something like the phantasm fill that role ? Or does it have to be a solo-vehicle with a gun ?


No people want to bail onto tower in the superior agile armour and not rexo, dont be silly.

[Helwyr]

I have always been of the opinion that Aircav and hot-dropping was far more damaging to Planetside's gameplay than BFRs were.

There's no disputing Aircav/hot-dropping was a popular way to play the game, it provided near instant quake like action, the pretense of being "most skilled" thing to do in the game, gave you two lives most of the time, and was just generally OPed.

As to it being a playstyle... Having your cake and eating it is not a playstyle, at least not one that is legitimate. Even if we take away the weapons from air units used to Hot Drop, it still messes up or cheapens a lot of other aspects of the game. The lines of defenses on the ground that can be bypassed on a whim in but a few seconds, while actual units meant for infiltration might take ages and considerably more risk to get behind enemy lines... Or they used teamwork in the form of the Galaxy, which was largely obsolete in Planetside because Aircav was so much better for the same purpose.

Oh and in terms of what the gameplay actually involves in hot dropping as it was in Planetisde, CutterJohn has it exactly right. in the quote bellow. It wasn't remotely balanced.


Mossie v AA max.

AA max has the mossie dead to rights. Mossie pilot bails over AA max. Instantly transforming from prey to predator. This apparently is fine. Ok.

Lets apply this to another unit. Lets say I have an AA max, and one of my counters, a rexo with AV, comes after me. Great. Now I'm about to die, so I hit a button and bail out of my max into agile + ha. This mechanic would generate enough rage to power a small city, even though it is fundamentally the same exact thing.

[Traak]

Bailing needs to be with a knife and basic armor.

If you suck so bad you can't keep your plane, well, then that's too bad. Back to VR training, I guess?

Oh, it's transport you want? Oh, then use the Galaxy.

Class dismissed.

[TRex]

In days of old all tv's were black and white with shades of grey in between . Then they brought out colour tv's ,HD and 3D .
I think you need to upgrade .

[Mirror]

Can we add the following to the original message in this thread.



****WARNING****
Most people in this thread are complaining about a playstyle they dont understand because they are bad at the game and have been farmed many times.


Anyone got a fishing animation. I wonder if I will get a nibble

[dm Akolyte]

Okay Mirror, let's take that for something actually ture and not just your usual elitist wanking.

So why is it that every "skilled" person in the game went with the *same* tactic? Could it, (gasp) possibly be that it was overpowered?

No no no. I'm sure it was perfectly fine and the people who used that playstyle are absolutely unbiased in their viewpoint that their K/D was ALL SKILL.

[Mirror]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTulwjX1kEIV4boTc1DwT2jngx0GZdb2 BovPbGswSB3alg7heQ4iA

[Helwyr]

If it was about demonstrating player skill, those players would have certed ATVs like the Fury not Aircav, you've got all the speed of Aircav, but have to deal with CE and terrain, and have a much harder time aiming. Players that genuinely just want to be pilots would have no problem with addressing the abuse of bailing in Planetside.

..and no, not all of us were farmed by air, I wasn't, but your "have my cake and eat" playstyle, often ruined my favored "playstyle" which was prolonged outdoor infantry and armor battles. Rather than be farmed or bypassed, I was forced to adapt and play in way I found less enjoyable... but I suppose I can always cert the Starfire again or just wonder around the map mining the tops of air towers to piss off people like Mirror.

I don't know about everyone else, but I'd much rather play a Planetside that involves large battles with combined arms, where no one type of unit or "playstyle" trumps nearly everything else.

[SuperMorto]

It should be done in as real a fashion as possible.

We all know you cant hot prop from a plane at high speed, but you can get out and you can have a pistol with you. And you would be in a rite mess, but it can be done.

Thunderbirds Eject/Crash -- How It Happened - YouTube

And the same goes for ground vehicles. We all know you can get out/off one, but at what speed will determine your state.

man on motorbike crash recovery - YouTube

[xSlideShow]

I really don't see how this is such an issue if the main problem with people is that maxes got ganked. Well first off faster TTK mean less time to react and if the bailing mechanism still fails... Then we also know that only HA will be able to carry AV equipment. So if there is similar restrictions to piloting air craft that there is now. The light assault guys aren't going to have AV on them. Along with all of this the max can now carry two weapons. So he can have AA and AI giving him more than a fair chance against an Agile with no AV. I seems like to me your problem is already solved.

[SgtMAD]

this thread is funny,its full of the exact same crying that started the end of PS and the game isn't even in beta yet.

you know, maybe this isn't the game for you if agiles were killing you in an AA max.

[TRex]

this thread is funny,its full of the exact same crying that started the end of PS and the game isn't even in beta yet.

you know, maybe this isn't the game for you if agiles were killing you in an AA max.

My thoughts exactly.

If all these goons got their own way, and eventually rendered the game down to the equivalent of Teletubbies online , they would still die and still whine that teletubby custard was OP .

Lost cause I'm afraid.

TELETUBBIES - YouTube

[Traak]

Since you are repeating the same "OMG anyone who doesn't worship me for being awesome for exploiting bailure must totally suck lololol" attitude, I will restate what I have said.

Bailing. You get a knife and just clothes. No armor, nothing else. You had a weapon. It is known as an "airplane". If an airplane isn't weapon enough for you, your reward for losing your plane isn't a whole new set of weapons and armor. That is childish and selfish.

If you want fast transport, there is a selection of ground-based stuff for you, if you so detest teamwork. Or you can ride in a Galaxy. Or pilot one. There you go. You have plenty of choices.

But, having the fastest, and in PS2, among the heaviest-armed single-person things in the game, and saying it isn't enough? You also have to be coddled by having it as a fast transport for yourself, plus be laden with infantry weapons and armor also?

Lost your plane? Lost your weapon. Die. Go get another weapon. Maybe something along the lines of heavy assault. But choose. Plane or other weapon. Not both.

It isn't enough for you to have, what 12,000 hit points and a variety of weapons, including autocannons and missiles, plus three-dimensional maneuverability and 260km/h speeds? That isn't overpowered enough? Perhaps you need to play a different game. One where you can play alone in God mode.

A 260km/h multi-armament weapons platform isn't enough? What, then, IS enough? A flying sky chariot that can rain down planet-wide orbital strikes while you are free from harm because you operate it from a World of Warcraft server?

The plane is one of the biggest, fastest weapons in Planetside. If you can't hold onto it, you shouldn't be rewarded with a whole new set of weapons and armor. You should die, just like everybody else.

[SKYeXile]

Since you are repeating the same "OMG anyone who doesn't worship me for being awesome for exploiting bailure must totally suck lololol" attitude, I will restate what I have said.

Bailing. You get a knife and just clothes. No armor, nothing else. You had a weapon. It is known as an "airplane". If an airplane isn't weapon enough for you, your reward for losing your plane isn't a whole new set of weapons and armor. That is childish and selfish.

If you want fast transport, there is a selection of ground-based stuff for you, if you so detest teamwork. Or you can ride in a Galaxy. Or pilot one. There you go. You have plenty of choices.

But, having the fastest, and in PS2, among the heaviest-armed single-person things in the game, and saying it isn't enough? You also have to be coddled by having it as a fast transport for yourself, plus be laden with infantry weapons and armor also?

Lost your plane? Lost your weapon. Die. Go get another weapon. Maybe something along the lines of heavy assault. But choose. Plane or other weapon. Not both.

It isn't enough for you to have, what 12,000 hit points and a variety of weapons, including autocannons and missiles, plus three-dimensional maneuverability and 260km/h speeds? That isn't overpowered enough? Perhaps you need to play a different game. One where you can play alone in God mode.

A 260km/h multi-armament weapons platform isn't enough? What, then, IS enough? A flying sky chariot that can rain down planet-wide orbital strikes while you are free from harm because you operate it from a World of Warcraft server?

The plane is one of the biggest, fastest weapons in Planetside. If you can't hold onto it, you shouldn't be rewarded with a whole new set of weapons and armor. You should die, just like everybody else.

I'm glad VS tanks can hover over water.

[SgtMAD]

Since you are repeating the same "OMG anyone who doesn't worship me for being awesome for exploiting bailure must totally suck lololol" attitude, I will restate what I have said.

Bailing. You get a knife and just clothes. No armor, nothing else. You had a weapon. It is known as an "airplane". If an airplane isn't weapon enough for you, your reward for losing your plane isn't a whole new set of weapons and armor. That is childish and selfish.

If you want fast transport, there is a selection of ground-based stuff for you, if you so detest teamwork. Or you can ride in a Galaxy. Or pilot one. There you go. You have plenty of choices.

But, having the fastest, and in PS2, among the heaviest-armed single-person things in the game, and saying it isn't enough? You also have to be coddled by having it as a fast transport for yourself, plus be laden with infantry weapons and armor also?

Lost your plane? Lost your weapon. Die. Go get another weapon. Maybe something along the lines of heavy assault. But choose. Plane or other weapon. Not both.

It isn't enough for you to have, what 12,000 hit points and a variety of weapons, including autocannons and missiles, plus three-dimensional maneuverability and 260km/h speeds? That isn't overpowered enough? Perhaps you need to play a different game. One where you can play alone in God mode.

A 260km/h multi-armament weapons platform isn't enough? What, then, IS enough? A flying sky chariot that can rain down planet-wide orbital strikes while you are free from harm because you operate it from a World of Warcraft server?

The plane is one of the biggest, fastest weapons in Planetside. If you can't hold onto it, you shouldn't be rewarded with a whole new set of weapons and armor. You should die, just like everybody else.

the funny thing here is that we don't see any of these "bailures" crying about ppl hotdropping on them because they know how to deal with them, you refuse to deal with it so you want it nerfed,I lead an outfit that was referred to as HotDrop takeover for the first couple of years and we had to fight ppl that dropped on every tower we ever farmed and we figured it out,its simple and here you are 8 YEARS later still crying about it and wanting it nerfed.

you want to change game mechanics to fit your narrow definition of what this game should allow,well there are still going to be players that figure out the easiest and most effective method to kill you and others will see this tactic and it will spread and you will be running to forums crying about how it isn't fair and it should be nerfed.

the best thing SOE could do right now is restore the original PS forums so ppl could see the amount of crying that went on at the beginning and how it led to huge player exoduses over and over again.

[TRex]

Bailing. You get a knife and just clothes. No armor, nothing else.

Ok, we get the point. But when you die to the guy with just the knife , whats next on your list , nerf knives?

[Traak]

As I said, you have a very high-hitpoint multi-weapon, fastest-weapon-in-the game plane, but you sissies want more? What more can you possibly want?

What do you want? God mode? You have had far too much, for far too long, and like most people who are over-entitled, you are working to defend the status quo.

The greed is almost unimaginable. Quit attacking me with your childish little taunts for pointing this out, and making up childish imaginary scenarios where you drop from the plane and heroically own everyone with your knife. It is never going to happen, and you are obfuscating the issue.

Bailure is failure. No game needs it. Especially PS2.

[DOUBLEXBAUGH]

Its not to be able to, with near 100% certainty, land on top of any piece of real estate on the map with zero prior planning and zero teamwork being necessary, merely because you can outrun the AA for the few moments you are visible by being at the flight ceiling and using afterburners, then instantly convert to a form virtually invulnerable to AA in order to effect your landing

Have you ever spent time in an AA max? I got kills from people trying to attack. They had to take a few moments to find targets and line up an attack run, thus making themselves vulnerable. It was rare to kill people just trying to bail. Come in at flight ceiling, or from behind a hill, and unless someone was perfectly positioned to catch them, they'd be out of the vehicle before AA caught up.

So part of your argument against hot dropping is it requires "zero teamwork", yet you are also mad that you can't SOLO them in your AA Max? Why don't you use some of that teamwork your talking about to counter them?

Get multiple AA Maxes so you can kill them in the short time you have to fire on them, maybe position yourself on that hill you said they will creep up behind so they can't use it for cover. Get a some engies to set out Spits to shoot them as they fall down, etc. How dare they use tactics to get around your defenses, and why should you have to come up with tactics to counter their bailing.

[SKYeXile]

As I said, you have a very high-hitpoint multi-weapon, fastest-weapon-in-the game plane, but you sissies want more? What more can you possibly want?

What do you want? God mode? You have had far too much, for far too long, and like most people who are over-entitled, you are working to defend the status quo.

The greed is almost unimaginable. Quit attacking me with your childish little taunts for pointing this out, and making up childish imaginary scenarios where you drop from the plane and heroically own everyone with your knife. It is never going to happen, and you are obfuscating the issue.

Bailure is failure. No game needs it. Especially PS2.

the skeeter reaver and wasp has the lowest hit points of all vehicles, bar like an ATV and possibly some obscure vehicle I'm forgetting...what game were you playing?

[TRex]

@Traak

Just as a point of reference , since ,from my perspective you're getting too inflamed and negative about this and many other references to other aspects of the game. If I'm wrong, I apologise in advance , and it's nothing personal.

The vast majority of my time in ps1 was playing as part of organised outfits , and of that time the vast majority of it was in galaxies , or armoured vehicles , with a mix of anything else thrown in. I've had air cav certed at times , but never really done a significant amount of hot-dropping as one , preferring the galaxy route since it's overall more teamplay orientated.
I've had AA max in past, and overall killed a good share of agiles bailing onto me , it's not impossible , depends on who dropped on you tbh, and your ability to deal with it or knowing when to do a sharp exit.
Whenever I've been in a dogfight in mossie , perhaps not the general ethos in the game, but whenever I got beat fair and square , I let them have the kill .Fighting 1 on 1 and being cut in with maxes on the ground, thats a different story. It's honour among thieves thing for me.
People hot dropping in agile /HA onto towers or bases , you have the advantage if you have any situational awareness and ability to shoot a gun in right direction. Sometimes though, you simply get outplayed by a superior player .Take note and move on , try to improve for next time.
Hacking is a different story, but just because you lost dosen't automatically render anyone that beats you must be a hacker either.
The beauty of ps1 was that at any time you could be shot at by any vehicles from any direction , from a sniper from a km away , by a cloaker in your back , blown up by a mine , or aircraft , or by a hotdropper dropping onto a tower. It's what made the game such a unique experience. And a place for everyone.
Do I like cloaking ? not particularly ,had 'spells' at it, but I accept they are in the game and good luck to them. Same goes for Maxes .Its not my cup of tea , but I've known a lot of people that use them almost exclusively , and still good players when they aren't in one. Same goes for anything in the game.
Just because it dosen't fit into my prefered style of play , I'm not nerdraging because they are there . But I will defend against those wanting to continue the rot that affected the original game, and carrying on this rot into the next incarnation.

Bailing may not even be in ps2 , but if it is , then I will live with it and learn to adapt as i go. There will be a class system , we don't know half the details on them so far . All i know is that the same people who progressed and adapted and learned all the ins and outs of the first game will endeavour to do so in the 2nd , and be generally derided and scorned for using all the tools made available to them as usual. They will find the best tactics , learn every weapon's ttk and pro and cons , learn the terrain and improve . Success breeds success.

edit: checked Bags ps2 faq thing, mossie/reaver/scythe hotdropping confirmed

[Draep]

Do any of you really think the mosquito in its current form is balanced? Any amount of AA can be avoided. Fastest vehicle in the game. Has a weapon, allows you to carry any weapon or piece of equipment, has ground radar. The only trade off is a little less armor.

My problem with it is not that it's too hard to kill hot droppers, but hot dropping out of aircav simply looks stupid. Why would it be acceptable to wreck your million dollar plane just so you can get on to a tower. I understand its all free anyway, but it doesn't look right to me. It is clearly not how the game is meant to be played. If you can prove to me it is, I'll def go play another game.

I have faith that this will be changed in the next game however. Based on many posts here, perhaps it already is.

[Bags]

Why would it be acceptable to wreck your million dollar plane just so you can get on to a tower.

It MIGHT have something to do with the fact that Planetside isn't a war simulator and the planes don't cost money.

I think the better question is 'why don't we have to use the restroom'; I mean c'mon, it simply looks stupid that you can play 10 hours and never go! Why is it acceptable to never use the restroom???

[Xyntech]

It MIGHT have something to do with the fact that Planetside isn't a war simulator and the planes don't cost money.

I think the better question is 'why don't we have to use the restroom'; I mean c'mon, it simply looks stupid that you can play 10 hours and never go! Why is it acceptable to never use the restroom???

VS have ancient urine suppressing technology.

TR have years of training and conditioning that has allowed them to hold it in for days at a time without their bladders bursting.

The NC, well... Why do you think they have yellow armor?

[Hamma]

I'm going to have to agree that solo bailing is stupid. Is it indefensible? Certainly not. But it certainly is a dumb game mechanic that made air vehicles glorified taxi cabs. I hope it is removed as well, but even if it is not you won't have HA droppers anymore.

[Bags]

I'm going to have to agree that solo bailing is stupid. Is it indefensible? Certainly not. But it certainly is a dumb game mechanic that made air vehicles glorified taxi cabs. I hope it is removed as well, but even if it is not you won't have HA droppers anymore.

I'm going to have to agree that solo bailing is stupid. Is it indefensible? Certainly not. But it certainly is a dumb game mechanic that made all terrain vehicles glorified taxi cabs. I hope it is removed as well, but even if it is not you won't have HA droppers anymore.

:groovy::groovy::groovy:

[Draep]

It MIGHT have something to do with the fact that Planetside isn't a war simulator and the planes don't cost money.

I think the better question is 'why don't we have to use the restroom'; I mean c'mon, it simply looks stupid that you can play 10 hours and never go! Why is it acceptable to never use the restroom???

I already stated in the post you quoted that I realize all the vehicles, ammo and armor are for free. It's retarded that vehicles designed not to be destroyed, are just thrown away like toilet paper just to get 1 man to a roof. At least with buggies and ATVs theres a chance you might reenter them. Even if that one part of my post was weak, I don't see how you could disagree with the others.

The second part of your post seems sarcastic and rude. I've also noticed many of your posts on these forums follow a similar theme. That's pretty lofty speech for a fan of My Little Pony.

[Xyntech]

I'm going to have to agree that solo bailing is stupid. Is it indefensible? Certainly not. But it certainly is a dumb game mechanic that made all terrain vehicles glorified taxi cabs. I hope it is removed as well, but even if it is not you won't have HA droppers anymore.

:groovy::groovy::groovy:

lol

Yeah, but ATV's aren't so much "glorified" taxi cabs as much as they are just plain taxi cabs, period.

Besides, you never have to blow up an ATV once you get to your destination (although you can if you really want to, lol). There is more of an incentive to reuse the ATV.

I don't want them to remove bailing so much as make it a shitty tactical decision, something that you only do as a last resort. To make this be the case, you have to make bailing not be very safe or reliable or useful.

Galaxy should be for hotdropping.
ES fighters should be for dogfighting and harassing ground troops
Bailing should be for trading certain death in a damaged air craft for a less likely but still probable death as a poorly equipped soldier on the ground
Bailing should also be for quickly landing yourself (at the cost of your air craft) in approximately, but nowhere near the exact area that you want to land.

Allowing bailing to viably replace galaxies is a bad game design. It isn't about skill or anything like that, it's about making everything in the game useful and not overshadowing one thing with something else that is superior in every way.

As long as bailing isn't ever a reliable way to survive getting shot down and as long as bailing isn't ever a reliable way to land on the exact area you want to land on, it's fine.

When someone pulls an ES fighter, the first thing on their mind should be using it as a combat vehicle, not just a transport. This isn't nerfing a play style, this is balancing the game. Otherwise, they should get rid of all transport vehicles and create a new unarmed one man aircraft that is faster than every other air craft. At least that would be balanced, since it wouldn't be infringing on any other vehicles roles.

[Bags]

I agree, but they shouldn't nerf bailing, they should buff galaxies, which they are.

I already stated in the post you quoted that I realize all the vehicles, ammo and armor are for free. It's retarded that vehicles designed not to be destroyed, are just thrown away like toilet paper just to get 1 man to a roof. At least with buggies and ATVs theres a chance you might reenter them. Even if that one part of my post was weak, I don't see how you could disagree with the others.

The second part of your post seems sarcastic and rude. I've also noticed many of your posts on these forums follow a similar theme. That's pretty lofty speech for a fan of My Little Pony.

I dunno about you, but I always throw my discarded ATVs off of ciffs!

[Hamma]

I'm going to have to agree that solo bailing is stupid. Is it indefensible? Certainly not. But it certainly is a dumb game mechanic that made all terrain vehicles glorified taxi cabs. I hope it is removed as well, but even if it is not you won't have HA droppers anymore.

:groovy::groovy::groovy:

wtf? :lol:

[FastAndFree]

Bailing should not be an escape option. ESPECIALLY not a last resort escape option.

Why do people think that aircav should have a last resort escape option when nothing else does?

Yes, you can bail form ground vehicles too, but then whatever was shooting at your vehicle will immediately open fire on you/your vehicle and kill you/blow up your vehicle taking you with it.

Going after bailures is often risky, not very feasible or slow (circling down to ground level from a high altitude since it's impossible to go straight down) for aircav, especially for reavers (yes, it is all about the Reaver for me) that have to now either waste an ENTIRE CLIP of rockets to take that pilot out or lose BEP that they shouldn't. If you can even get there in time and someone else didn't kill him alredy or he didn't kill himself with a boomer

[Xyntech]

I agree, but they shouldn't nerf bailing, they should buff galaxies, which they are.

Touche. I still think bailing should have a few more nerfs, but considering the buffs galaxies are getting and the unlikeliness that HA, and by extension AV weapons will be carried by ES pilots and it may be enough to remove the largest stupidities of bailing abuse.

I do like the mindset of making people want to drop from a Galaxy more than making dropping from a ES fighter useless. Just make it require that much more "skill" to hot drop in with your PJ's and SMG rifle variant and still manage to pwn a tower.


I dunno about you, but I always throw my discarded ATVs off of ciffs!

I prefer to go off the cliff while still in the drivers seat :D

Looking forward to sending some vehicles crashing down on facility courtyards from some of those absurdly high cliff faces.

[Xyntech]

Going after bailures is often risky, not very feasible or slow (circling down to ground level from a high altitude since it's impossible to go straight down) for aircav, especially for reavers (yes, it is all about the Reaver for me) that have to now either waste an ENTIRE CLIP of rockets to take that pilot out or lose BEP that they shouldn't. If you can even get there in time and someone else didn't kill him alredy or he didn't kill himself with a boomer

Well as long as they don't have weapons that can dominate aircraft or MAXes or other AA weapons that may have shot down their aircraft, I think it's okay if they are allowed to try and run away. You can either kill them yourself or let something else kill them.

As for losing out on experience, if you were the one to destroy their air craft (or fired the last shots at it or did the most damage to it before it crashed into the ground), you should absolutely get a ton of kill assist experience when someone finally does kill them, even if it takes a while for that to happen. I also think that destroying the aircraft, even if the pilot survives, should grant a healthy lump of XP.

I'm still not against limiting the usefulness of bailing, but several of the elements we know are included in PS2 are already going to devalue it. We may have to wait for beta to see for sure if it needs any additional tweaking or not.

[Mirror]

Do any of you know why people crash planes into people?
I'm going to guess that 9 times out of 10 it’s because they can’t bail. Now the people who complained long enough on the Planetside forums got their way and a bail fail mechanic was added. Now people are complaining because people crash their planes into others. The complaining will never stop, next it will be that the planes are flying too high and the AA doesn’t hit them at flight ceiling or something just as stupid.

Hot dropping from mossies, reavers, wasps etc in Planetside 1 was far more effective than dropping from a galaxy or driving in ground vehicles. I've watched gal outfits take anywhere from 5 -15 mins to fill a gal where it can take 30seconds to a few minutes to get a squad of mossies sorted out. Its time vs. strength (most people would be in rexo and 2 maxes would be there as well rather than all the droppers in agile).

Lastly, we have basically no information on how aircraft in Planetside 2 are going to work. Once it hits beta and you have experienced it firsthand then you can comment for now just go outside and live your lives.

[Bags]

Bailing should not be an escape option. ESPECIALLY not a last resort escape option.

Why do people think that aircav should have a last resort escape option when nothing else does?

Yes, you can bail form ground vehicles too, but then whatever was shooting at your vehicle will immediately open fire on you/your vehicle and kill you/blow up your vehicle taking you with it.

I don't see why air cav can't immediately open fire on you.

Going after bailures is often risky, not very feasible or slow (circling down to ground level from a high altitude since it's impossible to go straight down) for aircav, especially for reavers (yes, it is all about the Reaver for me) that have to now either waste an ENTIRE CLIP of rockets to take that pilot out or lose BEP that they shouldn't. If you can even get there in time and someone else didn't kill him alredy or he didn't kill himself with a boomer

I do agree you shouldn't be able to bail under fire though.


in red

[Xyntech]

What if bailing kicked you out in a random ballistic trajectory away from your aicraft instead of dropping you straight down? That way you wouldn't be able to choose your exact landing spot, but it wouldn't really be a direct nerf either since you would still be able to press eject and immediately leave your craft.

Add to that the inability to eject within a certain amount of time of having taken damage so that you can't bail in the middle of a fight.

Bailing wouldn't really nerfed, but it's abuses would be gone. Combined with improved galaxies and nerfed loadouts for light armor and I don't see how anyone but the most insane anti aircav people would have room to complain.

[Bags]

Just give bailers a very slow parachute and be done with it.

[dm Akolyte]

Just give bailers a very slow parachute and be done with it.

Let other aircav splatter them against their windshield in mid air.

[Xyntech]

Just give bailers a very slow parachute and be done with it.

Maybe a much slower falling version of the energy ball thing from PS1?

As long as Galaxies still hotdrop quickly. Maybe the galaxy hotdroppers could call even faster than they did in PS1, like faster than terminal velocity, but still landing without a scratch. No way you wouldn't prefer to Gal drop into a dangerous situation if you had super fast drops out of galaxies and super slow drops out of air cav.

Let other aircav splatter them against their windshield in mid air.

ALL OF MY MONEY!

Also, they so need to have infantry die in one shot to vehicles ramming them at full speed. Even ATV's. It's just too fun and would fit right in with the faster TTK and game pace.

[TRex]

Also, they so need to have infantry die in one shot to vehicles ramming them at full speed. Even ATV's. It's just too fun and would fit right in with the faster TTK and game pace.

lolz, bring back the Magmower , the original pounder , and fuck it, lets have surge back too. Happy days :groovy::groovy::groovy:

[Draep]

What if bailing kicked you out in a random ballistic trajectory away from your aicraft instead of dropping you straight down? That way you wouldn't be able to choose your exact landing spot, but it wouldn't really be a direct nerf either since you would still be able to press eject and immediately leave your craft.

Yes yes, i believe this solves the problem best.

[Xyntech]

lolz, bring back the Magmower , the original pounder , and fuck it, lets have surge back too. Happy days :groovy::groovy::groovy:

Yay Magmower! Come on, who doesn't want to splat some people with that new "fastest MBT" Prowler as well? As for the Vanguard, fuck em. They'll still crush a few skulls and I'm sure that their armor and firepower will more than make up for it.

I never understood why it was so bad that the Magmower could run someone over in one hit, but it was perfectly fine for the Vanguards main cannon to one shot someone.

Surge should be somewhere between original PS1 surge and modern PS1 surge. Don't make it so that you have to put away your gun to use surge, just make it so that you can't fire, or at least that your accuracy is completely worthless (like a cone of fire the size of your entire screen) while surging. Improved netcode should make surge a much harder thing to abuse and as long as the guy surging has to slow down for a moment to shoot accurately, it should be fine.

I say, bring it all back if it can be worked back into the game with any level of balance!

[FastAndFree]

I don't see why air cav can't immediately open fire on you.

Because instead of appearing right next to a ground vehicle the attacker was alredy shooting at, the bailing pilot drops to the ground, possibly several hundred meters.

If so, the winning party can't simply turn towards them to acquire line of fire, because it is impossible to tilt your nose so far down. He has to circle down, which not only takes time but makes him more exposed to enemy fire

Let other aircav splatter them against their windshield in mid air.

Haha I like the sound of that. *SPLAT*
The Scythe is especially well designed for that, actually. Well it wouldn't make a SPLAT sound though

[Talek Krell]

I never understood why it was so bad that the Magmower could run someone over in one hit, but it was perfectly fine for the Vanguards main cannon to one shot someone.
I wouldn't really know, but assuming that getting hit by vehicles hasn't changed much it's probably the hit detection. I'm sure we've all had those instances where you crossed a courtyard and got to a stairwell only to be rubberbanded back into the middle of the court so that you could be hit by a tank.

Who would then bitch at you like it was your fault.

[Xyntech]

Right, I always forget about how awful PS1 hit detection could be. That's almost a guarantee that we will get infantry mowing back in PS2. That along with them trying to appeal a little bit more to mainstream gamers.

"DOOD, wtf? Why din't that dude die when I hit him? This game sucks!" :D

I guess the other big thing was grief and like you say, friendlies bitching at you if you ran them over, but just watch where you are driving when there are allies near by, god damn it. If your allies aren't warping in front of you due to latency, there is no excuse.

Yes, improved netcode will solve everything.

[CutterJohn]

Just give bailers a very slow parachute and be done with it.

This is my preference as well. I don't care that its possible. I care that its an instant and effective method of removing oneself from the sights of other aircraft or AA. Simple solution then making it so it doesn't remove you from the sights of other aircraft and AA.

[Xyntech]

A slow fall would bring it more in line with bailing out of a ground vehicle, as far as balance goes.

[Traak]

Eliminate bailing from planes, period.

Being hit by a tank should result in being run over and killed.

Being rammed into by someone running should knock you on your butt and cause some health degradation, especially if you are a MAX.

Being rammed by a tank while in another vehicle should make it so the tank crushes your vehicle, and immobilizes it.

Hitting someone with an ATV should knock the driver off the ATV in addition to damaging the driver and, to a greater extent, the pedestrian.

Tanks should be able to be dropped, if they can be carried, on anything. Roof, wall, tower, whatever, and park, and be used for a turret. Same with any vehicle.

MAX's should be nearly unstoppable killing machines that are lethal against any infantry. AAmaxes that do less harm than a knife in the same time are idiotic. If you put your face in front of a dual-40mm Bofors in the real world, would your time to death be slower than if someone was knifing you repeatedly? :D

If people don't like MAX's being overpowered, they can always suit up themselves. Making any infantry capable of easily taking down a MAX is only artificial ego-feeding.

MAX armor wearers should be able to leave their armor, repair it, then get back in. It IS armor, after all, not an implant.

Planes should be able to do any maneuver a real plane can. Have a ten-mile flight ceiling, and be increasingly faster as altitude increases, so there is a bonafide air game, not just sissies picking on infantry from their flying Mechs.

Planes should be capable of very high speeds, 500 km/h, and leave a very loud signature, just like real planes.

Planes should also have some decent mass, so the maneuvers have to be thought out well.

OOps, sunset here in Thailand, gotta go soak it in.

[TRex]

I never understood why it was so bad that the Magmower could run someone over in one hit, but it was perfectly fine for the Vanguards main cannon to one shot someone.



like all 3 of my (tongue in cheek btw for any nerd-ragers out there :bang: ) suggestions , it was the netcode and hitdetection , plus everyone's connection were probably somewhere between a 56k and broadband (if you were v lucky in 2003/4) that probably magnified them to theri excesses in their day.
Magmowing was the funniest thing ever IF you weren't on recieving end. One guy in one hit ? It wasn't called the mower for nothing lol , you could be 10/20 feet away and still be mowed if cshd thought differently. It was like death race 2000.

[FastAndFree]

If people don't like MAX's being overpowered, they can always suit up themselves.

That is a downward spiral, and if you want to know what it would look like you just need to recall the release state of the BFRs. That sure was fun, wasn't it?

[Traak]

That is a downward spiral, and if you want to know what it would look like you just need to recall the release state of the BFRs. That sure was fun, wasn't it?

Actually, my point was that this is what happened with planes in PS1.

[FastAndFree]

Actually, my point was that this is what happened with planes in PS1.

:huh: Uhm, back to bailing?

I hate it, rabble rabble

[Metalsheep]

I never understood why it was so bad that the Magmower could run someone over in one hit, but it was perfectly fine for the Vanguards main cannon to one shot someone.


Because the Magrider can strafe, stop in a decent period, and turn easily in place or in large circles. You could drive your mag into a group of infantry, kill one or two, then strafe left, right, or in circles and just destroy whole groups of players simply because of your maneuverability. I think since the magrider floats, it shouldn't even hurt infantry if they duck under it :D

[Xyntech]

Because the Magrider can strafe, stop in a decent period, and turn easily in place or in large circles. You could drive your mag into a group of infantry, kill one or two, then strafe left, right, or in circles and just destroy whole groups of players simply because of your maneuverability. I think since the magrider floats, it shouldn't even hurt infantry if they duck under it :D

This is worse than a 150mm Vanguard cannon devastating that same group from 300m away? At least you could hide from a magmower behind trees and buildings and rocks (hit detection aside).

But yeah, with hit detection being how it was, it did need some fixing.

I look forward to welcoming it back in PS2. Hell, I may even decide to drive one again :D

[Metalsheep]

This is worse than a 150mm Vanguard cannon devastating that same group from 300m away? At least you could hide from a magmower behind trees and buildings and rocks (hit detection aside).

But yeah, with hit detection being how it was, it did need some fixing.

I look forward to welcoming it back in PS2. Hell, I may even decide to drive one again :D

You can Jammer or take cover from Vanny shots, they don't move that fast and are pretty visible. If you Jammered a magmower it could just "trolololo" and keep running people over.

I always wandered why vanu vehicles didn't just stop and fall to the ground when they got Jammered. I could just see a mag getting jammered, then it plops onto the ground with a big O.o face.

[Xyntech]

Jamming a Vanguard from 300m away doesn't work and you can avoid their shots to a point, but at a nice median distance it will be hard to stay alive and hard to jam them. Also let's not forget that a vanguard could mow you down as well, albeit not as efficiently.

That would be awesome to jammer a magrider while it was over water if you could shut off a it's hovering. *SPLASH*

[Metalsheep]

I also wanted to see Aircraft fall out of the sky when jammered as well, seeing as how hard it is to actually jammer one. And with a Pwnisher you could lob a Jammer quite a distance. Though at 300M thats a pretty decent shot on the Vanny gunners part. They aren't exactly pinpoint.

The vanny can still splatter infantry, and we have seen how annoying that can be. Could you imagine one magrider just destroying groups of infantry weather its jammered or not just because it can strafe and instakill any infantry that it touches, regardless of its momentum?

I am glad they fixed magmowing, but at the same times its crazy that you cant kill an infantry hitting him at full speed with most other vehicles. Magrider included.

[Xyntech]

This is where fixing the netcode is the only thing you really need to do to bring it back. As long as you see yourself get out of the way, you should be out of the way. If a magrider catches you out in the open, it's a tank. You are flattened.

Vehicles are supposed to dominate open spaces. Keep a rock or a tree or some other bit of cover handy and a magrider will have a lot harder time touching you (considering it's minimalistic splash damage).

That just wasn't an option in PS1 where you would run behind a tree or into a tower and 5 seconds later the magrider would still mow you down due to client side hit detection.

[SKYeXile]

This is where fixing the netcode is the only thing you really need to do to bring it back. As long as you see yourself get out of the way, you should be out of the way. If a magrider catches you out in the open, it's a tank. You are flattened.

Vehicles are supposed to dominate open spaces. Keep a rock or a tree or some other bit of cover handy and a magrider will have a lot harder time touching you (considering it's minimalistic splash damage).

That just wasn't an option in PS1 where you would run behind a tree or into a tower and 5 seconds later the magrider would still mow you down due to client side hit detection.

They said that it would be clinet/serverside like BF3, that means a hit on your screen is a hit, so probably no instant mowing. unless its reduced damage agaisnt friendlys...easy thing to change. But even then its alittle unfair when you think you're clear and you're not, but i guess that goes for regular combat...and my motto on that is: 2 fucking bad.

[Xyntech]

Right, but a hit on your screen also has to abide by serverside checks right? Also, with better netcode that caters towards people who have broadband, not dial up, it shouldn't be much of a problem.

Chalk any mowing deaths up to being casualties of the faster pace of combat ;)

[xSlideShow]

Ok, if the pilots can't bail and the gunners can in the lib. I'm willing to settle.

[SKYeXile]

Right, but a hit on your screen also has to abide by serverside checks right? Also, with better netcode that caters towards people who have broadband, not dial up, it shouldn't be much of a problem.

Chalk any mowing deaths up to being casualties of the faster pace of combat ;)

Err yes, while im not 100% sure on BF3's or PS2 exact coding method the typical thing is a hit on your screen is a hit even with a 200ms delay. so you may think you're safe, but if somebody like me can still see you with our high pings then you may find yourself dying around corners and to tank that on your screen did not hit you. the serverside checking(probably randomly, not every shot) would just check that my shot or mow is sane and since i have a 200ms ping, it is, and you die...well you would die anyway i just would not be banned....

[Raka Maru]

Bailing should be allowed. Slow dropping and vulnerable to flack and bullets, maybe lose half health until they reach the ground. Wasting a good plane should cost resources the owner pays. Xp should be awarded to the one who shot down the plane. Kill xp shared with the one who shot down the plane and the one who kills the pilot.

I can't imagine a planetside without pinpoint hot drops. It's just too integrated. Let's just fix the retardedness instead.

[Traak]

I can't imagine planetside2 with pinpoint hot drops.

[Raka Maru]

If they land and deconstruct, they don't get charged resources. So that anyone can still pull planes if they don't have resources, they get debited when they earn them if they are constant wasters. People will be more careful with their vehicles if they destroy it on purpose.

[Talek Krell]

Personally, I'd limit hot dropping to the passenger slots of air transports. I don't see any especially good reason to let people ditch their planes just because they lost a fight/don't feel like landing, and I want air transport to be the go to option for transporting yourself through the air.

There's a variety of reasonable suggestions in here though. Even just the stuff SOE is doing with class/armor restrictions and the improvements to netcode will likely fix most of the issues.

[Helwyr]

I don't know if anyone else noticed, but we had an update of sorts on bailing in the AGN community night discussion with Matt Higby.

Now granted it was only on an internal test build, but Higby bailed from a Mosquito after crashing into a building (he was recording it for us with his iPhone, so he might not actually be that terrible a pilot). His avatar had it's weapon out pretty much instantly and safely landed on the ground ready for action, exactly like the first Planetside.

Now things might be different on the eventual live server, but from that little demo, I'm thinking it's most likely Bailing is exactly the same as the original Planetside minus access to heavy weapons.

[Xyntech]

Now things might be different on the eventual live server, but from that little demo, I'm thinking it's most likely Bailing is exactly the same as the original Planetside minus access to heavy weapons.


That may be all the change it needs. Time will tell.

[SKYeXile]

That may be all the change it needs. Time will tell.

as if bailing on a tower in agile against rexos isnt fair enough already.

Planetside, Unlike every other MMO and FPS game...We give the stuff with the heaviest armour THE BIGGIST GUNS! :huh:

[xSlideShow]

as if bailing on a tower in agile against rexos isnt fair enough already.

Planetside, Unlike every other MMO and FPS game...We give the stuff with the heaviest armour THE BIGGIST GUNS! :huh:

Global Agenda did this with their Assault class. Just sayin.

[SKYeXile]

Global Agenda did this with their Assault class. Just sayin.

I probably needed a "good" somewhere in that sentance then.

[Helwyr]

If you were talking Assault infantry that can use their jump jets to get on a tower are balanced by having less armor than heavy infantry who may be defending said tower, I would agree.

However, the actual scenario isn't agile vs heavy. The guy bailing is actually an armored aircraft with way more armor and weapons than any infantry. Then at his choosing or when he's low on armor, he can bail transforming himself into a new type of unit, some sort of light infantry. Which as we know isn't just a lighter armored version of the heavy, it actually has the advantage of faster movement as well.. at least in the original game. Bailing from Aircav was never balanced, and IMO was bad for overall gameplay.

There's already a few improvements with PS2; No heavy Assault/AV for pilots (although this isn't 100% confirmed), way more AA options on vehicles, and MAX units able to equip AA and AI at the same time. However, I still think it should go further, and prevent the 2 lives and the ability to bypass defences by hotdropping that Aircav had in PS1. If you want to get into the heart of a defended enemy base cert infiltrator, if you want to drop out of the air on a base, get in a Galaxy.

[SKYeXile]

...

There is already more than enough AA in the current Planetside, with these new AA turrets and cerbs, it basicly ends hover spamming and makes CY's well more defended, with every tank, lightning and infantry with the option to have AA in PS2...there willbe a SHIT TONNE. Lets hope the new aircraft are up to the job of being able to deal with it all. If you cant nullafy aircraft in the current PS, you're doing it wrong...NC might be the only exception.

As for bailing, yeall..bailing on some MAXes head with a deci, I agree its alittle lame. But the case of using a skeeter for the sole purpose of rapid transport for tower drops or resecure, give it up. There is nothing AT ALL OP about it.

As for the agile vs heavy, the agiles movment as an advtange...really? yea it is...slightly due to poor movment prediction.. but rexo is why better, thats why everybody not tower bailing uses it.

[Helwyr]

...
[...]But the case of using a skeeter for the sole purpose of rapid transport for tower drops or resecure, give it up. There is nothing AT ALL OP about it.[...]


We're probably just going to disagree on this one, but consider how Planetside would change if you couldn't bail from aircraft other than the Galaxy onto towers and bases? It would have radically changed the nature of the game, and in my view for the better.

As to the rest I'm not concerned about air balance vs ground vehicles and MAXes, outside of bailing I think it will be good in PS2. Remove that mechanic and Aircav is balanced with everything else... Not like you see a Vanguard in a fight get to very low armor, and two infantry pop out and continue the fight while the Tank blows up leaving them unharmed.

...and if bailing was removed, there's nothing stopping you landing the aircraft nearby and approaching on foot to the base of the tower like everyone else.

[Marth Koopa]

I think bailing should stay pretty much the same as it is in PlanetSide, except make the pilot's descent not entirely vertical. Get some physics in there and make it HARD to bail from a jet onto the top of a tower.

[SKYeXile]

We're probably just going to disagree on this one, but consider how Planetside would change if you couldn't bail from aircraft other than the Galaxy onto towers and bases? It would have radically changed the nature of the game, and in my view for the better.

As to the rest I'm not concerned about air balance vs ground vehicles and MAXes, outside of bailing I think it will be good in PS2. Remove that mechanic and Aircav is balanced with everything else... Not like you see a Vanguard in a fight get to very low armor, and two infantry pop out and continue the fight while the Tank blows up leaving them unharmed.

...and if bailing was removed, there's nothing stopping you landing the aircraft nearby and approaching on foot to the base of the tower like everyone else.

We probably are...but...you play with people who drive and gun vanguards and dont carry AV? I can understand the driver...but there is no excuse for the gunner not to have AV..if thats shits about to blow...WTH would you stay in it?...

In any case its clear that they plan for PS2 to be a faster paced game than PS1, mossie dropping is the pinnacle of what is fast paced in planetside, lines advance extremely fast with tower being captured rapidly, if people could not bail it would be a step backwards...and if it was to change is PS...it would be even more slower than this bastardised version thats online currently.

Also I think we need to look at the PS2 developers handbook..."What would Dice do?"

Instant bailing from aircraft: In.

Instant bailing from tanks with AV: In.

[Helwyr]

I don't recall ever seeing occupants in a tank bail in an active fight and live. I almost never drove or gunned for one so never tried myself. Where as it happened all the time with Aircav, because their bailing from a fast moving air vehicle they won't die when it blows up as it won't be close like a ground vehicle will be.

[SKYeXile]

I don't recall ever seeing occupants in a tank bail in an active fight and live. I almost never drove or gunned for one so never tried myself. Where as it happened all the time with Aircav, because their bailing from a fast moving air vehicle they won't die when it blows up as it won't be close like a ground vehicle will be.

you dont die from any vehicle explosion with personal shield, i think you will find(you certainly dont from an aircraft explosion) also im pretty sure the tankgunner can bail on the move...been awhile since iv played and gunned a tank though.

i dont see why they would not live..unless they were NC...

if there is a tank in close range..jammer it then lance it...if theres air aircraft, lancer or stryker it, you only need to hit a reaver with 3 lancer shots before it bugs out, a tank afew more obviously...and if its prowler or vanguard it will gib you, juts need to jammer fast and get to good terrain, preferably bail on good terrain... so it does not gib you when you get out.

anyway you're argument on tank drivers not being able to bail and get a"second life" and fight instantly will likely be moot since there is no exit animations anymore, getting in and out would be instant, and if AV is carryable while in a tank...i presume it would be since the engineer would be the one repairing the tank anyway, people will be able to instant bail with AV and keep fighting. JUST LIKE BF3!...I wonder if they have these discussions on the BF3 boards?...

lmgtfy.com/?q=BF3 "is exiting a vehicle is op?" (lmgtfy.com/?q=BF3 "is exiting a vehicle op?")

hrm nope...must be balanced and you're all just whiners.

BF3 is bible.

End thread.

[sylphaen]

I don't recall ever seeing occupants in a tank bail in an active fight and live.

In PS1, only the gunner could. However, knowing that a vanguard or prowler would one-shot you or run you over, they did not do it too often.

In a buggy both driver/gunner could have REXO and bail. This made a for a very fast paced vehicle playstyle where you could attack a tank and have a chance to win. Jammers were the great equalizer.

Buggies did not have a huge amount of armor though. So if both gunner/driver of a tank could have rexo and bail, I would find that imbalanced (i.e. ditch the vehicle and keep owning after you fucked up everyone very badly).

[FastAndFree]

there is no exit animations anymore, getting in and out would be instant, and if AV is carryable while in a tank...i presume it would be since the engineer would be the one repairing the tank anyway, people will be able to instant bail with AV and keep fighting. JUST LIKE BF3!...I wonder if they have these discussions on the BF3 boards?...

lmgtfy.com/?q=BF3 "is exiting a vehicle is op?"

hrm nope...must be balanced and you're all just whiners.

BF3 is bible.

End thread.

Fortunately, last time we heard an entering (and probably exiting) timer was being considered

[LordHumungusXOX]

I wouldn't go so far as to remove bailing from PS2, but limit your articles of clothing and weaponry to the equivalent to a flightsuit aka cloaker suit. Maybe only cloakers are able to bail.

The way it is now for many is:
Take a slight amount of damage, maybe 1-2 rounds of AA or A2A
Bail
Suicide with plasma

This is a hilarious method of gameplay. I mean, at least go for a tree if you're going to suicide.

[FastAndFree]

I wouldn't go so far as to remove bailing from PS2, but limit your articles of clothing and weaponry to the equivalent to a flightsuit aka cloaker suit. Maybe only cloakers are able to bail.

The way it is now for many is:
Take a slight amount of damage, maybe 1-2 rounds of AA or A2A
Bail
Suicide with plasma

This is a hilarious method of gameplay. I mean, at least go for a tree if you're going to suicide.

How would a flightsuit fix that :huh:

Say no to bailing

[LordHumungusXOX]

How would a flightsuit fix that :huh:

Say no to bailing

Personally, I am all for removing bailing from AC, but if it were still in place, a flightsuit should be an essential piece of equipment.

It is however, very fun to watch some airwhore try to bail when his precious reaver is getting camped off the pad, only to blow up on him.

That is a good reason to keep it in my opinion

[Bags]

I highly doubt the heavy assault will fit in personal crafts.

[Aractain]

Yeah.... that big boy looks little fat for a pilot.

[Coreldan]

I'm pretty sure Higby/someone said that Heavy wont be fitting into those one seater aircrafts.

However I guess it's in a way interesting that the "basic armor" (instead of agile like in PS1) can use them, so it's not like we will only have whimps bailing over the towers, but at least this time they wont have heavy weapons.

[xSlideShow]

I don't recall ever seeing occupants in a tank bail in an active fight and live. I almost never drove or gunned for one so never tried myself. Where as it happened all the time with Aircav, because their bailing from a fast moving air vehicle they won't die when it blows up as it won't be close like a ground vehicle will be.

Actually I use to do it all the time when gunning. The only time I did not do it is if my driver would get pissed. It accomplished 2 things. 1) my tank lived 2) I lived. This was about 65-35 which is kinda your odds when it comes to bailing on a max or say a tower.

Of course it required semi-descent terrain which is the same for if your fighting the AA max. Also I don't remember ever staying in a buggy that was about to blow but, that's another argument.

Something I saw mentioned earlier, what about all the pad campers? Your tank as the advantage of not getting blown up before they get off the pad. Unless there is 2-3 enemy tanks in your CY even you got away sometimes. My Plane, get's blown up from one AA max, if anything I can just barely bail.