engineers and carbine rifles

[mefy]

So I saw a tweet from Tray I think, saying that engineers will have access to some carbine rifle and VS will have their own type of exploives/grenades.

Did anyone ever play Enemy Territory? I'd really like to see a good rifle type weapon issued to the engineers in PS2 like they did in ET... obviously it would have a small clip such as 8-10 rounds, but do significantly more damage then the standard MA rifles per shot, and have really good accuracy which makes them good for medium/medium long ranged encounters, but lacks a good zoom function and in close quarters it obviously wont stand a chance to anything indoors... basically giving engineers a good way to ward off infantry when they are laying CE or repairing stuff.

I think it would be cool to give them access to a high velocity type rifle weapon, what do you guys think? Instead of just giving everyone the same damn automatic weapon... this type of gun will actually reward people with really good accuracy ;)

[Coreldan]

A weapon like that isnt reallt a definition of a carbine. In ET it was bound to its context. I recall engis in BF1942 have bolt qction rifles while most had full auto or semi auto omes and I have to say I did like it, but once again context is everything..

[SKYeXile]

A carbine by definition is a normal rifle with a shorter barrel than usual, it may also use smaller rounds for close quarters fighting.

We have seen a regular cycler in the screenshots and we have also seen a cycler carbine, using my above definition.

I hope they're not total gimps.

[CutterJohn]

Its just a method of making balance a bit easier. If they have the same weapons, then a buff to one class is a buff to all. This way they can give the classes pretty much the exact same thing(and probably tie the weapons to the same skill tree), but are able to fine tune it without having an identical weapon do 50dps on one class, and 45 dps on another, or whatever.

[LZachariah]

Those were both my conversations with T-Ray (about the VS grenades) and TwoThreeSix (about the carbine Pulsars for Engineers). TwoThreeSix also said that Engineers will get other weapons (common pool, perhaps?) such as Shotguns and SMG's. I followed up his answer with the question about whether our carbine Pulsars will have buttstocks or not, but there was no answer (I've repeated the question to someone else and still gotten no answer). But in general, I'm glad that the Engineer will get a version of the Pulsar; it was my standard weapon in PS1.

And btw, I'm just gonna repeat, that this Friends and Family Beta that's going on right now is a REALLY good sign!

~Zachariah

[ringring]

Those were both my conversations with T-Ray (about the VS grenades) and TwoThreeSix (about the carbine Pulsars for Engineers). TwoThreeSix also said that Engineers will get other weapons (common pool, perhaps?) such as Shotguns and SMG's. I followed up his answer with the question about whether our carbine Pulsars will have buttstocks or not, but there was no answer (I've repeated the question to someone else and still gotten no answer). But in general, I'm glad that the Engineer will get a version of the Pulsar; it was my standard weapon in PS1.

And btw, I'm just gonna repeat, that this Friends and Family Beta that's going on right now is a REALLY good sign!

~Zachariah
Wait wait wait ... there really is a friends and family beta going on right now?
I thought that was some kind of forum joke......

[LZachariah]

Oh, I got the impression that it's very real. Alot of people on Twitter are talking about it. I mean, there was the big demo on Friday (which went over extremely well) and I think that they're expanding their closed Beta to include "friends and family" now. However, I'm not 100% positive; can anyone else support/deny this? I want to be properly informed.

~Zachariah

[Oryon22]

Wow, Enemy Territory. Haven't heard that in a while...

[Xyntech]

Oh, I got the impression that it's very real. Alot of people on Twitter are talking about it. I mean, there was the big demo on Friday (which went over extremely well) and I think that they're expanding their closed Beta to include "friends and family" now. However, I'm not 100% positive; can anyone else support/deny this? I want to be properly informed.

~Zachariah

There hasn't been any official confirmation to my knowledge, but you are totally correct. There seems to be a lot of talk that indicates that friends and family is going on now.

[LZachariah]

Right, that's what I thought. Glad to hear that you've been getting the same impression as me. Anyone else? Thoughts?

[mefy]

Yeah I know a carbine isn't the rifle I was describing in ET, but was suggesting that engis get some sort of long range rifle as opposed to just another regular pulsar/cycler/guass. Or maybe a variant that only has 10 or so shots in a clip but does 4-5x more damage per shot? Idk... would be cool to have that type of gun. And rifle grenades! then we'll be just like engis in ET... lol

[Erendil]

Yeah I know a carbine isn't the rifle I was describing in ET, but was suggesting that engis get some sort of long range rifle as opposed to just another regular pulsar/cycler/guass. Or maybe a variant that only has 10 or so shots in a clip but does 4-5x more damage per shot? Idk... would be cool to have that type of gun. And rifle grenades! then we'll be just like engis in ET... lol

It may be "cool" but it is the exact opposite of what would make logical sense for an Engineer to carry. IMO, an Engie's main task is to repair stuff, setup defenses, etc. Not engage long range targets. So if anything they would primarily use a rifle only for short/medium range personal defense.

As such they'd want a small, light carbine that would be easy to carry so they could carry more Engie gear. An unfortunate side effect of it's smaller design is that it would be inherently less accurate and maybe (due to the shorter barrel length) slightly less damaging than the rifles issued to standard infantry.

That doesn't mean it's a pea-shooter, though. The US Army's M4A1 is basically a carbine version of the M16A4, and it's no slouch when compared to its longer-barreled cousin when used within its effective range (300m).

And of course with weapon customization there's no reason to believe you couldn't unlock a longer-barreled version in the cert tree if you wanted to. :cool:

EDIT: However, something like a rifle grenade wouldn't be out of the question since traditionally Engies blow up stuff, too. :D




Its just a method of making balance a bit easier. If they have the same weapons, then a buff to one class is a buff to all. This way they can give the classes pretty much the exact same thing(and probably tie the weapons to the same skill tree), but are able to fine tune it without having an identical weapon do 50dps on one class, and 45 dps on another, or whatever.


I see no reason why different classes couldn't use identical weapons so long as it makes sense for them to do so. For example I would think both Light Assault and Heavy Assault would be able to use identical long-barrel Assault Rifles if they so choose since the main purpose of each class is that of a grunt - to take/hold territory by directly engaging the enemy with hand-held weaponry.

That said, it does make sense for an Engie to use a carbine, as mentioned above...

[CutterJohn]

I see no reason why different classes couldn't use identical weapons so long as it makes sense for them to do so. For example I would think both Light Assault and Heavy Assault would be able to use identical long-barrel Assault Rifles if they so choose since the main purpose of each class is that of a grunt - to take/hold territory by directly engaging the enemy with hand-held weaponry.

That said, it does make sense for an Engie to use a carbine, as mentioned above...

It makes sense to do it for the exact reason I mentioned. If they run into a situation where, for example, Engineers are too powerful with pulsar, but Heavies are fine, whats to be done?

Nerf the pulsar? engies are better now, but you just nerfed pulsars, so all other classes shared the nerf, and it was unnecessary for them.

Nerf the engie? They are balanced now when they have a pulsar, but when they have any other weapon they are nerfed.

This gives them more granular control.

Engineers too powerful with the pulsar? Ok, they use the Pulsar Carbine now. Does a bit less dps. Nobody else is affected. The players skills aren't affected since the pulsar and pulsar carbine use the same skill tree. Of course they could just fine tune the pulsar damage on a per class basis, but then you have the arbitrary model of a weapon doing 12 damage per shot on heavies, but 10 damage per shot on engineers, but there is no discernable difference between these weapons.

[TheRagingGerbil]

I loved playing engineer in BF2142. The SMG's were great little weapons.

[2coolforu]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't carbines shorter ranged variants of an existing rifle, I thought 'carbine' came from the shorter barreled rifles they gave to dragoons so they could fire from horses without being to hindered. Not high damage - longer range rifles.

I mean IRL the only advantage they have is being more maneuverable in close range, faster aim speed, less likely to catch your barrel on doors etc. I'm not a military guy so correct me if I'm wrong. However I'd like to take this opportunity to stress one point

DO NOT FUCKING MAKE ROCKET LAUCHERS ONE HIT KILL INFANTRY

Thank you

Seriously I can't think of any game that's done it right bar ARMA 2 with ACE 2, and that's only because its insanely realistic. Planetside did the game very right by making AT weapons ineffective against infantry, it fucking worked well. Now look at what BF3 is now (Rocket/M320/Frag-shotgun spam) on any close infantry map and picture that but with 2000 guys.

Seriously, rockets one-hitting infantry is a dumbfuck idea unless you balance infantry weapons along with it, if rockets one-hit infantry then rifles should too.

[Galapogos]

I would like to see engineers be able to choose from carbines, SMGs, and shotguns (sweeper equivalent though, no 1s1k). And yeah, I imagine we are all a little nervous about how much grenades and rockets may damage infantry in this game.

[Coreldan]

I'd also hope that they just take the unrealistic approach when it comes to those rockets. Yes, it's not logical that they can destroy tanks but don't explode players.

I think PS had it fine. Nobody really tried killing me with rockets :D

Balance over realism.

[ThGlump]

Nobody really tried killing me with rockets :D

Youre serious? That NC cowards was trying it all the time, shooting phoenixes from safety at anything that moved. Im glad they removed it, lets see how laser guided suit them (that could be even worse than before, but require cooperation so its good)

[Coreldan]

Youre serious? That NC cowards was trying it all the time, shooting phoenixes from safety at anything that moved. Im glad they removed it, lets see how laser guided suit them (that could be even worse than before, but require cooperation so its good)

I guess the reason I was saved from that was cos I was amongst those cowards :D

Yeah, I was like "hmm, i did shoot at people with phoenixes though.." But dont think I ever killed anyone with them. Took so many rockets.

[Erendil]

It makes sense to do it for the exact reason I mentioned. If they run into a situation where, for example, Engineers are too powerful with pulsar, but Heavies are fine, whats to be done?

Nerf the pulsar? engies are better now, but you just nerfed pulsars, so all other classes shared the nerf, and it was unnecessary for them.

Nerf the engie? They are balanced now when they have a pulsar, but when they have any other weapon they are nerfed.

This gives them more granular control.

Engineers too powerful with the pulsar? Ok, they use the Pulsar Carbine now. Does a bit less dps. Nobody else is affected. The players skills aren't affected since the pulsar and pulsar carbine use the same skill tree. Of course they could just fine tune the pulsar damage on a per class basis, but then you have the arbitrary model of a weapon doing 12 damage per shot on heavies, but 10 damage per shot on engineers, but there is no discernable difference between these weapons.

Agreed. Game balance was no doubt also considered when giving the Engie class a carbine. I just hope that 1) MA and MA carbine actually do use the same cert tree (which I think they do) and 2) they don't give every single class their own version of different weapons since that could make switching between classes resource-expensive and possibly time-consuming if you keep pulling and equipping customized weapons after each class change.

But then, they could make the weapon varient in your inventory automatically change but have the customizations for the weapon stay in place when you switch classes . Like if you pulled a slower firing, more accurate Pulsar as the HA class, then it auto-switched to a slower firing, more accurate carbine if you changed to the Engie class without you having to pull another Pulsar.

[Xyntech]

I'd hope that if you spent resources to pull something out and then switched to another class and thus got rid of the weapon, that you would get it back for free with all of the customizations the next time you pulled it.

Wait until you lose it in the field of battle before having to pay for it again.

[EASyEightyEight]

I just hope that as a medic/engi, there is the power in customization to turn it back into a standard issue rifle, but doing so takes up hard points that could have otherwise been used for other nifty gizmos.

[Baneblade]

A decent PDW would be nice.

[Galapogos]

Carbines to me should bridge the gap between SMGs and assualt rifles. In this case what a carbine would gain in range over an smg it would lose in cqc effectiveness. And also some pdws would be really cool, id especially like to see one based off the design p90 or mp7 (mostly asthetically, im not saying i want op smgs).