Sinking feeling in your heart?

[Sighpolice]

Sup,

Anybody else get that massive sinking feeling in their hearts whenever you hear some news straight from the press about PS2? I know what that feeling is, and I have an idea that most of us feel it too.

Is it excitement? Possibly. The new PlanetSide does indeed look pretty, and shiny and glossy and up to scratch with "modern graphics." but the more I tell myself that, the more I know that graphics do not matter. I wouldn't play my little pony even if the graphics were so advanced you could touch the horses. We all played (and still play!) PlanetSide first time around not for the graphics.. It was for the gameplay.

But the feeling.. it grows even more and harvests itself when you hear information about "Customised weapon sights" (red dot sights, acog sights etc.) and "The play style is a lot like Bad Company 2" and you try to en-vision them in the perfect PlanetSide world, does that sort of stuff belong there? Yes, everyone using the gauss/cycler/pulsar had the same "sights" but it didn't that mean that you were hindered by it or that it was the end of the world. It probably made it better actually for balancing purposes, whenever you saw an NC with a gauss you knew exactly what you were up against, now with all the sights the tactics have changed and you'll never know what advantage they have over your sight?

It saddens me to say that the feeling I have is one of disappointment and worry. The more I hear about PlanetSide 2 the more I worry that it won't be a true sequel.. With the gameplay more like BFBC2 fights won't last longer than an hour.. even for a base.. The way people get back into the action faster with "squad spawning".. Is that really PlanetSide? Yes its from a drop pod, you have to spec into it and such but.. really? Wasn't adv medic enough?

I quite liked the stalemates, purely because you could fight over a bridge for hours.. Are we going to be waving goodbye to these sorts of fights because 10 mosquito's raped the tanks on your side with an over-powered upgrade?

Also, Lets not forget.. that this SoE team is also the team that introduced BFR's, which was one of the main reasons players quit. Who's to say they aren't similar surprises in the works for future patches? If this is the same team that did that, then who knows what could be coming.

Jetpacks? Is this for PlanetSide? Maybe its good for tribes and section 8, but for pro-longed 3 hour fights over 10 meters, do Jetpacks fit into this scenario?Doesn't it make walls useless as base defences? Who remembers making your way out of the base, running across the CY to the stairs that lead up to the wall and being cut to pieces by a AI VS Max who jump jetted over the wall. Wouldn't it make these sort of situations a routine thing?

Headshots would be good if it were sniper/pistol only.. but is that what people want? Do we want 13 year old CoD players dictating what PlanetSide veterans receive from PlanetSide 2? Most of them were probably 5 when PlanetSide came out.

I hate to put a downer on everyone's day.. but I cannot be the only person with that sinking feeling in my heart. Maybe I am, Maybe I've been diagnosed with Cynicism like that episode in south park (Stan.) But I have to air my opinion, as it is one that grows more or less every "news update".

[ringring]

I never like bridge fights and I am puzzled that other seemed to do. Kinda like a fetish I suppose.

otoh I quite like tower fights, whether defending or attacking and attacking interfarms, at least from the point where we have the CY.

So, it takes all sorts....

If the devs create a bridge for bridge fights as they say they are going to do, for goodness sake do not make it like the bridge between Tore and Lesa!

[LZachariah]

I think this game is going to be amazing. Even the blunder of including BFR's obviously doesn't outweigh all the amazing achievements Planetside brought to the FPS world. And this game will be refined with 8 more years of experience about what makes an excellent MMO and FPS game.

The sinking feeling in my heart is that only my closest friends and relatives are going to know I exist once this game goes live. And many of them will be playing online with me.

~Zachariah

[Coreldan]

My only concern is the cheaters as the game will be F2P.

Other than that, I feel SoE will pull this off well. They have shown so much promise and communication to the fanbase.

[Chug]

Hi all,

I sympathise with Sighpolice's pov.

for me, PS was the best internets game I've ever played - Eve a close second.

Being part of a (usually) effective team in a larger conflict on a semi-persistent world where battles matter.

Please make the conflict larger, make the world more persistent, make the battles matter more.

That is what matters

The rest, not so much.

cheers

P.S Nordic Assault, if any of you are still out there...

[basti]

The Team working on PS2 isnt the team that introduced BFRs, maybe a few of those guys are actually part of that new team. And i know thats coming, its what WE want! Ever hared of the "3 years plan"?
Squad spawning is not the primary way for respawning, but rather a tool to get you to your squad quickly (it may not be used at all within enemy territory!).
I ignore the Jetpack part. Because there are no jetpacks. There are Jumpjets.
You also didnt got the memo on the Hitbox stuff. Its hard to headshot snipe someone, and the extra damage from headshots within close range combat can be tuned till it fits. Called Balancing, ever heard of it?



Really mate, its Cynicism, nothing else. You are afraid of change, for a good reason. You fear that what made planetside great for you wont be part of Planetside 2.

But really, think carefully, what was it that first hooked you up to planetside? Was it the lack of hitboxes, the lack of BFRs and the lack of Jumpjets on Light Infantary?
Or was it the massive war raging 24/7?

We both know the answer.

[Shogun]

i´ve got some fear, too.

it´s like bags said. i am afraid to lose the features i loved so dearly on ps1, but also i know that a lot of new features will compensate for that.
and how great the screenshots look now, is a very very sweet bonus.
nobody was drawn into planetside for the graphics, but a lot of potential players didn´t try the game because the graphics were so bad. and i am sure all those lost players would have started to love the game if they even had tried it.

the biggest threat to ps2 are cheaters and hackers, in my opinion!
i am still not happy with the f2p decision. every online game has cheaters, especially shooters. and not being able to ban them will create a very big challange to the devs!
if the game stands up to our expectations, it would break my heart to see it die to exploiting morons.

[Raymac]

There is nothing wrong with having some trepidation at this point. Frankly, the one thing we really know for sure about Planetside 2 is that it will look amazing.

But will it lag like a slideshow? Will the ping be so bad you get hit 5 minutes after someone shoots at you? Will there be rampant cheating? Will it just be a constant zergfest with people spawning right on top of each other? Will the weapons not feel right? Will it be a balance nightmare? Will it blue screen of death every 2 minutes? Will there be a total lack of teamwork since everybody will play solo?

There are still a ton of questions about the game, and the only thing we have at this point is faith. And it's faith not so much in SOE as a company, but it's in the people who make this brand new Forgelight engine, it's in the development team who are designing and testing the game.

We won't really know the answer to the above questions until we get to try the game next year, but personally I have faith that this dev team will get this one right. It may be because I'm just a total fanboi, but I believe they are going to get this right because they have to. SOE has put alot of chips on the table to develop this game, and the developers have been extremely vocal with the community and seem to be saying many of the right things.

We can get into debating some of the finer points, hell this forum is filled with that. But looking at the big picture, I have faith that this will be a great game. As T-Ray said, long before we saw how beautiful this game would be, "We got this."

[Xyntech]

The only fear I have is that the game will get shit on after launch. I'm loving, or at least okay with, everything I've seen and heard so far.

Some of the changes, like jump jetting MAXes, will be missed. Other changes, like mandatory 2 man MBT's, I don't prefer. None if it sounds outright bad to me though. I can understand where the devs are coming from and I think the gameplay will still be fine.

I just don't want SOE to pump out a great game, probably better than the first Planetside, and then let it suffer Planetsides fate all over again. I want those massive battles to rage on for the next ten years.

F2P and that 3 year plan are keeping me hopeful on that front.

The way some people talk about PS2 not being "true Planetside" makes me laugh. We've only had one entry in the series so far. Games evolve. A clone of a game isn't a sequel, it's an expansion pack... That's the kind of shit that Call of Duty pulls. It's true that you can lose the spirit of a game with just one sequel, but Planetsides heart and soul looks intact to me in PS2. It's still going to be more like the original Planetside than it will be like any other game, and in all the most important ways.

Not every PS1 fan is going to like PS2 though. The changes will just be too much for some. I hope those numbers are small though, since the community is pretty awesome and I'd hope that as many of those vets as possible are able to enjoy falling in love with Planetside all over again.

[Aractain]

My fear, like others it seems, is if SOE don't get the game to feel right. The mixture of vehicles and infantry, objective types, simplified gameplay. Things like that which can only be found after significant playtesting and speak to the quality and experience of the designers to engineer the game in the right way.

[LZachariah]

Basti put it extremely well. And so did a few others here, including Xyntech (DAMN i love that signature image).

I think that all will be well.

~Zachariah

[Crator]

Don't forget guys, some of the PS2 development team members were also in the PS1 dev team... I have no doubt they will try and rekindle the PS1 feeling in PS2...

[Nephilimuk]

wait for the game to come out and if you don't like it don't play - simple.

Understand your passion though and those old memories most of us have are good. Still no good judging the cake till its cooked.

[Raymac]

wait for the game to come out and if you don't like it don't play - simple.

Understand your passion though and those old memories most of us have are good. Still no good judging the cake till its cooked.

I think that's the reason some people kinda worry though. If it turns out that PS2's gameplay sucks, it's not like we can just put it down and go play the other big MMOFPS because there is really nothing quite like Planetside.

That's why I'm so excited about this game, and I'm following the development closer than I've ever followed any game or movie before. If this fails, then it may be years before another game even remotely similar gets made. So for a fan, the stakes are higher than just the next flavor of the month MMORPG or Call of Duty.

Like you said, can't judge the cake until it's done, but the kitchen is smelling really good right now. mmmmmm caaaaake.

[BuzzCutPsycho]

Given SoE's track record the OP has a very real reason to be worried/skeptical of the game. I'm not too worried though about them saying the fighting is similar to modern shooters such as CoD and BF especially since PS1's infantry fighting was an abysmal joke.

Any game where a "good" player learned how to abuse A/D and crouching to cause their character to warp is the sign of poor shooter mechanics. PS1 as a shooter was a terrible game even for it's time but made up for it in it's large scale team play focus. The moment that began to erode is when the game went down into the shitter. This was PRE-BFR mind you.

[Erendil]

The only fear I have is that the game will get shit on after launch. I'm loving, or at least okay with, everything I've seen and heard so far.

Some of the changes, like jump jetting MAXes, will be missed. Other changes, like mandatory 2 man MBT's, I don't prefer. None if it sounds outright bad to me though. I can understand where the devs are coming from and I think the gameplay will still be fine.

I just don't want SOE to pump out a great game, probably better than the first Planetside, and then let it suffer Planetsides fate all over again. I want those massive battles to rage on for the next ten years.

F2P and that 3 year plan are keeping me hopeful on that front.

The way some people talk about PS2 not being "true Planetside" makes me laugh. We've only had one entry in the series so far. Games evolve. A clone of a game isn't a sequel, it's an expansion pack... That's the kind of shit that Call of Duty pulls. It's true that you can lose the spirit of a game with just one sequel, but Planetsides heart and soul looks intact to me in PS2. It's still going to be more like the original Planetside than it will be like any other game, and in all the most important ways.

Not every PS1 fan is going to like PS2 though. The changes will just be too much for some. I hope those numbers are small though, since the community is pretty awesome and I'd hope that as many of those vets as possible are able to enjoy falling in love with Planetside all over again.

^^^ Pretty much this. ^^^

Once again Xyn, you and I are seeing things eye-to-eye. :) From what I've read so far PS2 is going to be a worthy successor to PS1 and if its development continues along the same lines as we've been led to believe I will probably have even more fun playing PS2 than I did PS1 - and believe me I LOVED PS1, and still play it 3-4x/week. The Devs continue to express that this is a re-imagining of Planetside, and as such big changes are to be expected. However, for me many of the core aspects of PS1 have already been confirmed to be in PS2:


Persistent world
Huge number of players at once
The same 3 Empires with the same strategic approaches
Character skill development, specialization, and level advancement
Outfits, squads, platoons
Diverse, large-scale combined arms combat (light and heavy infantry, cloakers, MAXes, Ground Vehicles, aircraft) with dozens to hundreds of units (if not more) of each type in play at once
Multi-crew vehicles
Diverse support skills and non-combat support roles (Medics, Engies, etc)
Very little difference in direct power between a "Day 1" character and a 5-year vet


All of the above has already made it 99% likely that it'll feel to me like PS2 is a game that will fit nicely into the PS family. :thumbsup:

But Sighpolice, it's understandable that you feel the way you do as they are making a ton of changes to the gameplay mechanics. There are a few revisions that I think are a big mistake I have made my opinions known on these boards (no enemy weapon looting, no vehicle jacking, MBT's with no dedicated driver), others that I'd rather not see go but see the reasoning behind (VS MAX Jumpjets, freeform inventories and certs, although I still fear the classes will be a little too restrictive), and still others whose change is a mystery to me (no Sancs, no instant AP for VS weapons, Engies getting stuck with carbines), but the vast majority of changes I've heard about I absolutely love, like:


territorial control system
Locational damage on vehicles and infantry
more realistic flight mechanics
mission system
no infantry 3rd person
Weapon/vehicle sidegrades (note: not upgrades. Customizing a weapon to do something better will have tradeoffs)
interchangeable MAX weapon arms (instead of changing to a whole new suit like PS1)
realistic weapon ballistics
Kill times that are faster than PS1 but slower than BFBC2
some objectives capture-able by vehicles


I could go on and on (too late! :p ), but you get the idea. Personally I have found that the more details I read about the game, the less concerned I became because it allowed me to better see the vision the Devs have for PS2 and understand most of the changes they are making to the PS1 formula. I already have a pretty good framework in my mind for what it will be like and overall it appears to be an improvement in many ways to PS1.

If you haven't already do so I strongly suggest you look at Bags's Stickied PS2 information thread at the top of this forum and at least read the reddit thread, the FAQ's, Q&A's and any info that Bags directly pasted into his first couple of posts. Hopefully that will give you more insight into what the Devs are doing an help alleviate your concerns somewhat. It certainly will give you a more accurate depiction since it's straight from the horses mouth, not (in-article quotes aside) interpreted by some game magazine writer that may have never even played PS1 before.

One last thing: What has probably kept me most at ease is the level of communication the Devs have had with us so early in the game's development. It obvious that they all have great passion for PS2, and that they are putting a ton of thought and effort into every square inch of the game - both literally and from a game mechanics standpoint. They have been happy to address the ton of questions we've thrown at them and given us info when they can. And they are also actually listening to our feedback and in many cases making changes according. For a game that's still in Alpha (or closed beta if the friends and family rumours are true), that's pretty damn impressive... :cool:

[Erendil]

Given SoE's track record the OP has a very real reason to be worried/skeptical of the game. I'm not too worried though about them saying the fighting is similar to modern shooters such as CoD and BF especially since PS1's infantry fighting was an abysmal joke.

Any game where a "good" player learned how to abuse A/D and crouching to cause their character to warp is the sign of poor shooter mechanics. PS1 as a shooter was a terrible game even for it's time but made up for it in it's large scale team play focus. The moment that began to erode is when the game went down into the shitter. This was PRE-BFR mind you.

This is a good point. Although I obviously don't have quite so negative of an opinion as you about PS1 in general, the infantry combat did leave much to be desired. I've never played any of the BF series, but IMO CoD 1 and 2 anyway had superior infantry combat mechanics to the simplistic HA-biased ADADA-fest that permeated PS1.

[BuzzCutPsycho]

My opinion of PS1 as a game isn't really as negative as I may display. I think PS1 was a great game but I don't look back in time with rose tinted glasses. It had a lot of game breaking issues beyond what you may remember or even experienced.

One such issue that was crippling to us in particular was the CTD on continent load. Our outfit ran a full platoon of infantry a night. We'd respond to enemy hacks or attack continents via three galaxies. A common issue was to have the pilot and multiple players CTD after entering a warp gate and as you can imagine this was very bad when speed and surprise were two of your major benefits. This was (to my knowledge) never fixed.

But that didn't matter because in about a month BFRs made all forms of organization irrelevant.

[Captain1nsaneo]

My opinion of PS1 as a game isn't really as negative as I may display. I think PS1 was a great game but I don't look back in time with rose tinted glasses. It had a lot of game breaking issues beyond what you may remember or even experienced.

One such issue that was crippling to us in particular was the CTD on continent load. Our outfit ran a full platoon of infantry a night. We'd respond to enemy hacks or attack continents via three galaxies. A common issue was to have the pilot and multiple players CTD after entering a warp gate and as you can imagine this was very bad when speed and surprise were two of your major benefits. This was (to my knowledge) never fixed.

But that didn't matter because in about a month BFRs made all forms of organization irrelevant.

Oh yeeeeaaahh... I knew there was a reason I stopped upgrading my rig for several years. Fixed most things but it didn't stop PS's memory leaks and a chance to drop on cont load as you said.

I actually like PS's infantry gameplay when it comes to dealing with vehicles on foot. In the BF series I always feel like I'm dead if I so much as see a vehicle while on foot. PS made infantry always feel like they at least were a threat to vehicles and not just fodder.

[Erendil]

My opinion of PS1 as a game isn't really as negative as I may display. I think PS1 was a great game but I don't look back in time with rose tinted glasses. It had a lot of game breaking issues beyond what you may remember or even experienced.

One such issue that was crippling to us in particular was the CTD on continent load. Our outfit ran a full platoon of infantry a night. We'd respond to enemy hacks or attack continents via three galaxies. A common issue was to have the pilot and multiple players CTD after entering a warp gate and as you can imagine this was very bad when speed and surprise were two of your major benefits. This was (to my knowledge) never fixed.

But that didn't matter because in about a month BFRs made all forms of organization irrelevant.

Don't get me wrong, I know PS1 certainly had its problems. Falling through the world, blackout and term bugs, getting trapped in spawn tubes that wouldn't open, numerous lockon and cloaking field visibility issues, etc. My first TR outfit did frequent gal drops (although not on the scale used by the Enclave) so I recall the frustration when our pilot CTD'd, and I still get sound- and memory leak-related session lockups every couple of days.

In fact, PS1 is probably the buggiest game I've ever played, but it was also the only MMO I've ever played so I don't have much to compare it to directly. And it's certainly the most complex FPS I've played. But even with all of its problems it's still my favorite computer game of all time, and even though I also quit once BFR's were released and they invalidated any other type of ground vehicle combat, once they were nerfed to tolerable levels after about a year I came back and have been playing ever since.

So yeah, um... Not really sure where I'm going with this.. What were we talking about again? :p

[Captain1nsaneo]

So yeah, um... Not really sure where I'm going with this.. What were we talking about again? :p

Judging from the thread title I think we're talking about heart disease.

So back on topic, does anyone have a betting pool going for when Higby's lunch will cause heart failure?

[Nephilimuk]

42

[Xyntech]

42

Life, the universe, and everything?

[Firefly]

If the devs create a bridge for bridge fights as they say they are going to do, for goodness sake do not make it like the bridge between Tore and Lesa!
Pro-tip: Cert Galaxy/Liberator/Scythe/Reaver/Mosquito. Go above, around, side to side, underneath, some other continent.

Problem solved.

[basti]

The Tore-Leza Bridge is awesome! Its about 600 meters long, and full of win! I fought so many awesome battlest there that i can barley remember even half of them.

Seriously, we need more stuff like this. Tore-Leza required teamwork on a new scale. A single tank did noting, you had to roll full tank collums across the bridge, supported with Air and AA. Or have 2-4 full galaxys going for the enemys base tower or the generator, just to have a distraction big enough to let the other guys push across the bridge.

Loved every single fight there!

[Raymac]

Yeah, fought that Tore - Leza battle soooo many times, and never really got tired of it. I still remember the first time I took my Reaver underneath the bridge from a steep angle at full afterburn trying to avoid those Starfire rounds. I fully expected to not make it, but somehow snuck through. Memorable moments like that are why I am really looking forward to PS2.

[Sifer2]

I can understand the fears. It's quite obvious they feel that to succeed in the market they must copy core gameplay from Battlefield/CoD. And that means making it really easy to die/respawn. Ironsights, Killcams, and they have not told us yet but I bet regenerating health is in too. Medic probably is more for rezzing like the Battlefield version.

These will be massive changes to the gameplay that wont make it feel the same. But you don't really have any other options in MMOFPS anyway. So all you can do is concentrate on what did stay the same. To be honest I had expected worse. I was worried it would be only two factions and done in a more modern warfare style. Thank god its as close to PS1 as it is.

[BuzzCutPsycho]

I can deal with modernization to an extent. I am personally worried about "e-sports" and "outfit wars" since they're so fundamently against what made PS1 so great.

In PS1 when they experimented with outfit wars (CLAN MATCHES) they were a joke. If people wanted to be competitive on a micro scale they'd do it in superior games. So long as whoever the temporary developers of PS2 are can understand what will draw the majority of their players they should be fine for awhile. If you try to cater to too many people you'll end up with a watered down experience on all fronts which leaves nobody satisfied.

I've used the example before but I will do so again - Battlefield 3.

[Graywolves]

I think competitive gameplay can work, just have little small player hosted games throughout (so people can practice and train) and a tournament once a week or once a month maybe.

Or just give it a matchmaking but require a platoon/squad that's full.

[Baneblade]

As long as PS2 sticks to the parts of PS1 that worked and avoids the parts that didn't, it can only be a better game.

[basti]

As long as PS2 sticks to the parts of PS1 that worked and avoids the parts that didn't, it can only be a better game.

Question is, what worked and what didnt? Ask anyone, they will have a different opinion...

[Aractain]

Thats because they are WRONG!

[Sifer2]

I think competitive gameplay can work, just have little small player hosted games throughout (so people can practice and train) and a tournament once a week or once a month maybe.

Or just give it a matchmaking but require a platoon/squad that's full.


You would still be better off doing that in games designed for it. Of which there are plenty. Planetside 2 should focus on the unique things you can only do with a large scale persistent world IMO. I think they are on the right track drawing inspiration from EVE. Since that game is not e-sports competitive but has lasted quite a while with people telling stories of things that happened like corporate take overs an so on. If they can get something like that into Planetside 2 in a way that fits I would take that over instanced small scale competitive maps.

In fact I would consider instanced small maps kind of a threat. Look what they did to world PvP in World of Warcraft. There was a time before the Battlegrounds were added where people fought out in the world. Back an forth battles over villages out in the wilderness. Even occasionally raiding each others faction cities an attempting to kill the hero NPC's. But then the faster more convenient Battlegrounds were added and all of that died over night. Fun dynamic world PvP replaced with people standing around the city with blank stares waiting for the que to warp them to some instance to grind the same old little minigame over again.

Who is to say the same might not happen to Planetside 2 if they added that? Instead of having to drive somewhere to fight an deal with possibly being outnumbered I can just que up for a nice balanced little quick match. It could potentially ruin the game if too many opted for it instead. Since the open world PvP needs lots of people to work.

[Crator]

Idea on this... What if the e-sports could be incorporated into the existing game world, no instances, with a UI overlay/elements for those participating in the e-sport events. Just make the goals required to compete inside the open PvP world... This UI for participants along with a nice web site that tracks all the events would work, no?

[Graywolves]

You would still be better off doing that in games designed for it. Of which there are plenty. Planetside 2 should focus on the unique things you can only do with a large scale persistent world IMO. I think they are on the right track drawing inspiration from EVE. Since that game is not e-sports competitive but has lasted quite a while with people telling stories of things that happened like corporate take overs an so on. If they can get something like that into Planetside 2 in a way that fits I would take that over instanced small scale competitive maps.

In fact I would consider instanced small maps kind of a threat. Look what they did to world PvP in World of Warcraft. There was a time before the Battlegrounds were added where people fought out in the world. Back an forth battles over villages out in the wilderness. Even occasionally raiding each others faction cities an attempting to kill the hero NPC's. But then the faster more convenient Battlegrounds were added and all of that died over night. Fun dynamic world PvP replaced with people standing around the city with blank stares waiting for the que to warp them to some instance to grind the same old little minigame over again.

Who is to say the same might not happen to Planetside 2 if they added that? Instead of having to drive somewhere to fight an deal with possibly being outnumbered I can just que up for a nice balanced little quick match. It could potentially ruin the game if too many opted for it instead. Since the open world PvP needs lots of people to work.



I'd rather compete on a platoon/squad scale of Planetside 2 with mixed unit tactics than run and gun.


I love planetside 2. And I'd love doing competitive play in it too.

Obviously a quick match battle would be very different than the full scale war and with what they plan on doing with the mission system and getting players quicker into battle, no one's going to do quick match just to enter a quicker battle.

And WoW is very different. The game was built around PvE. Battlegrounds and the Dishonor system may have killed world PvP but ultimatley, world PvP hindered overall gameplay, especially lower levels. You needed a large and organized raid to successfully attack cities and cities. And I actually did alot of that while Battlegrounds were out. It was fun but ultimatley had no purpose.

As long as the matchmaking doesn't reward close to what world gameplay does, people will do large scale battles in the world more often. If there's no solo queue for it either, then unless they got a full team that they trust to go in with, people won't flock to that. Given the number of PUGs overall.....I don't think this is an issue.


Competitive play in this game, when and if it does come....will only be a feature and not overshadow the main stage of gameplay. If it gets anywhere in eSports, people will giggle their pants off when they see their favorite people in the battlefield.

I really think it would compliment the gameplay more than anything and would require dedication from the people who do it (organize and train a couple times a week and all show up for tournaments etc.) while not effecting the main stage at all.

[Xyntech]

Idea on this... What if the e-sports could be incorporated into the existing game world, no instances, with a UI overlay/elements for those participating in the e-sport events. Just make the goals required to compete inside the open PvP world... This UI for participants along with a nice web site that tracks all the events would work, no?

I'm in agreement with Crator on this. I don't know if it would work, but it's the direction I'd like to see them take if they do anything like e-sports in PS2.

Why copy what other games do? Try blazing a new trail in e-sports history. Take advantage of the open, persistent world and the three empire nature of the gameplay. Make an e-sport like the world has never seen before.

If it doesn't work, meh. At least it didn't hurt the rest of the game. If it works, Planetside will make history, once again.

[Raymac]

With regards to Planetside and e-sports, I can't help but be reminded of lacrosse. Originally, lacrosse was called bagataway and played by various native american tribes. It was a massive event played on "fields" that were typically just the land between 2 villages, so they were miles apart and played by hundreds at a time. (Massive zone, hundreds of players...sound familiar?)

Nowadays, it's called by the french name "lacrosse" and played on a more manageble field about the same as a football field with 10 players per side.

My point is, while the regular Planetside game's massive scale really doesn't lend itself to e-sports, it can be scaled down to make it more e-sports friendly. Now this will make it no different than any other arena shooter, but that's what e-sports has to be. You can't have a massive game between villages, you need to scale it down to fit in a stadium.

Will it damage Planetside? Not likely, since the draw of the game will always be those massive scale battles, or even just the smaller skirmishes that directly affect those larger battles. And hopefully, Planetside 2 is such a huge success with sooo many people playing that a few players going off and playing some side arena instances won't even be noticed. I just wonder if it will really catch on and compete with other games that are actually designed as arena shooters (i.e. pretty much every fps out there).

[BuzzCutPsycho]

The fact that some of you are actually entertaining the idea of e-sports is pretty disturbing. You know as well as I do that it'd be a death-knell for PS2.

Think about what it did to the MMO juggernaut that is WoW. WoW took a huge hit due to arena and is considered to be one of the shittiest things they've ever done with the game.

[Raymac]

The fact that some of you are actually entertaining the idea of e-sports is pretty disturbing. You know as well as I do that it'd be a death-knell for PS2.

Think about what it did to the MMO juggernaut that is WoW. WoW took a huge hit due to arena and is considered to be one of the shittiest things they've ever done with the game.

Frankly, if there was ever a time to entertain any and all possibilities for PS2, I'd think now would be that time. Do I think it is the best idea? No. But I also don't think it is as cut and dry as you say.

Also, WoW is not really a fair comparison for many reasons. Like it's a 7 year old game, and they are tacking on the e-sports thing after the fact, and there are dozens of similar games out there, and the new Kung Fu Panda expansion is the shittiest thing they've come up with.

Like I said before though, Planetside won't be able to compete with arena shooters on the e-sports front because they are designed specifically for that kind of play. They are minnows and Plantside is a giant fuckin krakken. Just different fish.

[Zulthus]

E-Sports is a shitty idea for a game like PlanetSide 2. I remember when the devs were trying to add content to PS1 a year (2 years?) ago, the MAX Factory and those urban trench combat things as instances. We were all soooo against it and convinced it would just draw away from the main battles, why would we support it now? You were right back then and should still have that opinion. PlanetSide is not an E-sports game. It is competitive without instancing. Why not just go to an empty continent to fight instead of wasting resources on something like this?

[Sifer2]

Frankly, if there was ever a time to entertain any and all possibilities for PS2, I'd think now would be that time. Do I think it is the best idea? No. But I also don't think it is as cut and dry as you say.

Also, WoW is not really a fair comparison for many reasons. Like it's a 7 year old game, and they are tacking on the e-sports thing after the fact, and there are dozens of similar games out there, and the new Kung Fu Panda expansion is the shittiest thing they've come up with.

Like I said before though, Planetside won't be able to compete with arena shooters on the e-sports front because they are designed specifically for that kind of play. They are minnows and Plantside is a giant fuckin krakken. Just different fish.



We can make comparisons to WoW. It's an MMO and a good study of how people behave to changes in design. The Arena's are not really a new feature I think its been around since Burning Crusade. There were a lot of things added to WoW that arguably damaged the game and made it less fun. Much like the stuff that was added to PS1 were bad ideas mostly.

Battlegrounds killed world PvP in WoW. Guy above made a good point that world PvP was kind of pointless beyond humiliating your enemy by raiding their city. But they could have easily just given it a point. Something they eventually tried to do I think much later on. But by then it was too late Battlegrounds/Arena's were just faster, and more convenient. There would never be enough people running around to get world PvP going again.

I see the same as a threat to large battles in Planetside. I think everyone knows that the dynamic nature of real world PvP that isn't confined to a small box has a very different pace to it. You cant just order up a battle at this specific base like a Hamburger made your way at McDonalds. You have to go with the flow and sometimes its slow or frustrating. If they add the McDonalds style instances then its possible a lot of people will opt to do that which will only slow down world PvP even further cause less people will show up.

It would go from only a handful of battles during off hours to no battles during off hours cause everyone is in instances. Only way to try to curve that behavior would be by making instance fights give very little reward. Or just be for bragging rights/leaderboard score alone. Even so I would rather see all their development effort go 100% into improving the world PvP experience rather than bother with instances. I just don't think tacking it on would make the game better.

[Elude]

I don't understand people who think graphics don't make a difference in a game when it's 50 percent of what makes it a video game. I would most definitely play a my little pony game if you could fucking touch the horse and feel it, who the hell wouldn't want to experience a breakthrough like that? I guarantee you if PS2 looked like PS1 it would not sell nearly as well.

Graphics support gameplay, there are gameplay elements in 3D games that you couldn't otherwise have if it were a 2D game. Do you have any idea what type of new gameplay potential games could have if you could fucking touch shit? Sure there are great games with bad graphics but to say that graphics don't matter is just wrong.

Back to the rest of the OP...

I don't think anything can really be claimed as "is this Planetside" when Planetside wasn't really much of anything to begin with. The only thing Planetside actually had going for it was large scaled battles in a persistent world with 100s of players and three factions competing against each other, everything else is irrelevant. Iron sights and jet packs will change the way Planetside 2 is played for sure but even these I'm sure are small in comparison to some of the other additions they have in store for us, so be prepared for more.

If Planetside 2 fails I highly doubt it'll be because of additions like jetpacks and iron sights.

[Captain1nsaneo]

If you're looking for a small instance or a place for duels or squad on squad fun, I don't see a reason that there couldn't be something like we had in PS.
Around the edges of a few conts there were small islands and a few of them worked for squad on squad brutality. I don't see why they couldn't make some tiny hand crafted islands along the periphery of one of the conts. Just need to fly your AMS out there and everything's good.

[Graywolves]

Okay, let's look at something that was successful in competitive gameplay with it not being the main attraction.....Such as Guild Wars.

Many people say that Guild Wars was successful in their arena, competitive gameplay, guild battles, automated tournaments, etc.

Now the developers of Guild Wars 2 are looking back at this and acknowledging the success of it but saying that it could have been more successful because the way that it was set up was not good for casuals, you needed a team, an organized guild.

Alot of people played Guild Wars and never did PvP. Some did nothing but.

With a F2P business model we are going to have these excess players who will be more interested in some battles than others. If it takes having 9-29 other people that you need to practice and regularly play with then I really do not see competitive play/eSports scene overtaking the rest of the game.

[Coreldan]

The difference is that GW was all about instancing. Instancing is what is required to make competetive gameplay.

PS has no instancing and it is directly against the nature of the game.

[SuperMorto]

Who is to say you have to change anything! Ill show you all what i mean when the time is right!