Tank Vrs Tank Vrs Tank Vrs Tank!

[Tobias]

There are currently four tanks in the game:
the





Lightning
Source: Common Pool
Type: Light Tank
Role: Attack & Escort
Primary Weapon: 75mm Cannon
Secondary Weapon: Light Rotary Chaingun
Handling: Good

The Lightning is a single seated mini tank. Fairly fast, but only lightly armored, Lightnings are suited to running escort or in packs. It is outfitted with a 75mm cannon as its primary weapon, and is also equipped with a secondary light rotary chaingun. Both weapons are mounted on a forward facing turret that offers a limited field of fire to the driver.


The only light and only common pool tank,

----------------------------------------------
Then there is the:
Prowler
Source: Terran Republic
Type: Heavy Tank
Role: Heavy Assault
Primary Weapon: 100mm Cannon
Secondary Weapon: Dual 12mm Rotary Chaingun



-------------------------------------------------------------
then Of course we have the:
[Vanguard
Source: New Conglomerate
Type: Medium Tank
Role: Heavy Assault
Primary Weapon: 150mm Cannon
Secondary Weapon: 20mm Recoilless Cannon
Handling: Average

The Vanguard is the main battle tank of the New Conglomerate. Generally well balanced, the Vanguard brings decent speed, solid armor, and hefty firepower to the field. The main turret, which houses both a 20mm and 150mm cannon, is capable of a 360� pivot, giving the gunner complete attack coverage for the driver.



--------------------------------------------
Last but not least, or maybe it is, we have the:

Mag-rider
Source: Vanu Sovereignty
Type: Heavy Tank
Role: Heavy assault



(On a note this tank is the only thing about the Vanu I dont like )








-------------------------------------------



How do you think the tanks will do against one another, what advantages do they have over each others, and why get a two person tank over a two person buggy, or visa versa?

[NeoTassadar]

What's wrong with the Mag-Rider? :confused:

[Streamline]

Originally posted by NeoTassadar
What's wrong with the Mag-Rider? :confused:
Strafing??? No wait! thats a cool thing. Uh...? I give up. :love:

[Tobias]

I Just dont like it.

[Streamline]

Well... do you have. I dunno... a reason? :confused:

[NeoTassadar]

Hey, I got promoted! Anywho, yeah, strafing, a few seconds of free travel over water (a little longer and you sink), don't have to worry about small ground obstacles (medium-sized rocks, etc.), and all-around better mobility.

[Tobias]

No, I dont have a reason, and I dont need one. And If I did have a reason I would lie and say I didnt, for if I had a reason it would prove that the design was flawed, but it is Vanu and thus that can not be. Stop with your questions.

[Saint]

It depends on the situation, say you are in a mag-rider and you are coming head on with a Vanguard. If the Vanguard connects you can say bye bye, but if you are in one of the smaller tanks you had better take advantage of its mobility. Same situation applys to the proweler, if a mag-rider pilot goes head on with a prowler, I'm sorry you are KIA.

It the smaller two tanks sneek up behind the Vanguard or get behind him, the Vanguard better have his hand on the eject button.

[�io]

I really doubt the other empire tanks can kill a mag-rider in 1 hit. :)

[Saint]

I didn't mean for you do get the impression that I meant one hit, but I am sure a Vanguard can kill a Mag-Rider in a few direct hits.

[Kalam]

Well if there is enough space to strafe, I doubt the Mag-Rider will be an easy kill.

While every Vanguard Gunner will have a hard time aiming on the Mag, the Mag can get some easy hits with his big centered main Gun.

Indeed I think the Mag-Rider seems to be a specific Tank Hunter.

[RCB_Ghost]

Am I the only one that notices that the TR Prowler is in the Heavy Tank catagory. With a 100mm Cannon, and dual 12mm Rotary Chainguns.

But the NC Vanguard is classified as a Medium Tank, with a 150mm Cannon and a 20mm Recoilless Cannon?

[simba]

prowler VS vanguard-prowler in long distance and vanguard in short

mag-rider VS vanguard-vanguard in short distance and mag-rider in short since it can dodge the shots by strafing but in short I guess its easier for the vanguard to hit.

mag-rider VS prowler- dunno

oh and how big is the mag-riders main weapon?

[simba]

I have seen that ghost

[Cygnus]

TR tank is more heavily armored, as I recall. Ergo, heavy tank.

[Revulsion]

:confused:

Vanguard all the way!

[Zatrais]

How the hell can a TANK dodge a shell? Sure the VS tank can strafe but thats needed so the tank won't be a sitting duck to fire it's main gun.... If your gunner manages to miss a Magrider cause it was "dodging" then thats a sucky gunner, hell the Magrider is fecking huge....

Annyways, i for one think the prowler is the best tank, heaviest armor and 2 100mm cannons... When you get ingame and have to acount for lag, package loss and such, having those 2 100mm guns whit most likely the best ROF is going to be a nice thing... not to mention the option of a 2nd gunner to man the 2 chainguns =)

[Camping Carl]

Wait, why would the prowler have the heaviest armor? That's the NC philosiphy, remember? "If they can't kill you, you can kill them at your leisure."

[Zatrais]

Thats the NC MAX special ability.... it's not raw armor, it's a shield.

Reason for why the TR is assumed to have the heaviest armor: http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/viewer.php?img_id=343 Heavy armor beats solid... the article matches the official description of the Vanguard, minigun and jackhammer, it's fairly safe to assume that the description of the prowler is also the official one.

[Camping Carl]

That's pretty iffy evidence, zatrais. And heavy armor, big damage is the NC philosiphy, I can't see why the same idea shouldn't apply to their tank. Look at the vanu, their max can jump and is definitely the quickest. Their tank can hover, which is not the same thing, but it's still focuses manueverability and speed, right? And the terrans, their max focuses on high rate of fire. And their tank does the same thing, instead of one big gun, it has two small ones that fire faster, plus chainguns.

[Kalam]

I would not say that there is a BEST tank.

Well you can not just set the tank weapons equal to real world weapons, whatever size the guns are we do not know anything about their ammunition or the empires different technologies in this case.

TR and NC Tanks both have their weapons mounted on high turrets, they got main guns which seem to have a somewhat great blastradius and are also equiped with some kind of chainguns.
As you can see they have an enourmous anti-infanterie capacity.
I would see these two as allraounder tanks.

The Mag-Riders main gun on the otehr hand is centered low above the ground on the Tanks front.
It does not seem to make a great anti-infanterie weapons tho.
The turret weapon is only small and from its look it could even be a beam, but anyway will not have a great blastradius.
So I bet the Mag is specialized on destroying other vehicles.

[Zatrais]

Where did you get the idea that NC focuses on heavy armor? a MAX whit a souped up shield does not mean a side will have the heaviest raw armor points also....

And i don't think it's iffy evidence.... you really think the NC will have the biggest guns and the heaviest armor?

Edit: i've always been under the impression that the NC are between the VS light armor and fast speed, mobilit and the TR's heavy armor and slow mobility... the Vanguard is after all described as the balanced tank..

[Camping Carl]

I don't believe that the NC will have a firepower advantage if that's what you mean. I do think they'll do the most damage in a single shot yes. But I'm pretty sure that the TR tank (and the TR max too) can inflict more pain than the others can. And about the shield thing, why does it matter whether it's sheilds or armor? It means the same thing, the NC max is difficult to kill! That's what they specialize in.

[Shark]

I think one of the fundamentally important factors in tank vs tank battles is going to be the projectile speed of the main guns vs. the acceleration and top speed of the tanks. If the projectile speed is relatively low, ala BF1942, I would expect the strafing Mag-Rider to have an advantage, depending of course on the acceleration of the strafe (that is, how quickly it can change directions). If the projectile is relatively fast, then I wouldn't expect the strafing ability to help the mag-rider much against other tanks, although it could be useful against infantry or possibly even aircraft.

Unfortunately, we just don't have this information, so it's really quite difficult to make a judgement. And even if we did have it, at this point, it's all quite subject to change.

-shark

[Zatrais]

You could just as easily say that the VS is specialising in beeing difficult to kill whit their mobility...

Shields isn't the same as armor, well least to me. Why, cause armor can be repaired, shields recharge. Might be different damage to them also *shrug* thats just speculation from me tho.

NC has a pretty nice advantage whit the heavy payload weapons, fire and move away, rince and repeat. Popping around corners and such, the NC's damage is instant, it dosn't need to be sustained over time like the TR... for instance, popping around a corner and unloading all 3 jackhammer barrels will do a hell of alott more damage than doing it whit a minigun. Or a group of vanguards can focus fire on a prowler, taking it out and getting away whit its superior speed. (assuming that article is correct)

On a final note, the Vanguard is also described as a medium tank on the official site, while so far the prowler is still described as a heavy tank, thus more armor, but slower.

TR: ROF, Heaviest armor, slowest.
NC: Payload, medium armor, 2nd fastest
VS: Accuracy, Lightest armor, fastest

and thats how i think the sides are.

[Kalam]

Some time ago it was said:
TR best armor
NC best Weapons
VS best agility/speed

in detail:
TR has the best armor and high velocity weapons.
They are somewhat slow.

NC has the strongest weapons and biggest explosions.
Everything else is about average.

VS got weak Armor.
They have by far the most agile forces and they also own the best technology.

[LesserShade]

here is a reason for not liking the mag-rider.... it is fugly.

I have to believe that the three heavy tanks are pretty damn well balanced however.

[Camping Carl]

I think one of the fundamentally important factors in tank vs tank battles is going to be the projectile speed of the main guns vs. the acceleration and top speed of the tanks. If the projectile speed is relatively low, ala BF1942, I would expect the strafing Mag-Rider to have an advantage, depending of course on the acceleration of the strafe (that is, how quickly it can change directions). If the projectile is relatively fast, then I wouldn't expect the strafing ability to help the mag-rider much against other tanks, although it could be useful against infantry or possibly even aircraft.

Well, check these out:

Lightning tank firing (http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/viewer.php?img_id=310)

Lightning tank firing 2 (http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/viewer.php?img_id=311)

Notice the vanu guy in front of the tank seems to be mostly in the same position, meaning these screenshots were taken one right after another. Meaning that the lightning's shells move pretty quickly. Don't know about the other tanks tho. We need movies of tanks firing.

And I don't know zatrais, we'll have to wait and see, once we get info from the beta testers.

Personally I see it just slightly different:

NC: Payload(most damage in one shot), Heaviest armor, slowest.
TR: ROF(most damage over time), medium armor, 2nd fastest
VS: Accuracy, Lightest armor, fastest :vssucks:

[Zatrais]

Can see a lightning fire in a GS movie, NC lightning and enforcer are chasing away something, the shots are pretty damn fast as carl pointed out.

Annyways, we'll see carl, i think you got it the wrong way... hope they release prowler info... Prowler, the name even implies thats it's a slow tank... hehe

[Shark]

Great observations Carl!...I suspect you are right then, that the projectiles, at least for the Lightning, are quite fast. Too bad for the Vanu tank then I think, at least at short range. If it's speed and acceleration are high enough though, it should be able to keep a healthy distance from other tanks. That combined with a fast, beam-like weapon on the main gun would hopefully balance things a bit. I'm sure they're having all sorts of fun trying to balance those tanks.

-shark

[Tobias]

Also the buggy the tank is shooting at has moved a wee bit as well. Fast shots yes.

I am gonna have to agree with Carl, I to was under the impression that the NC had the heavest armor in the game.

[Zatrais]

The Vanguard description dosn't even mention heavy armor, it stops at solid... Vanguard is also classified as a medium tank on the official page.. While theres no official description of the Prowler, there is a article out that has the word for word (well pretty damn close) description of the Vanguard in and a description of the Prowler, can assume that the articles description of the Prowler is pretty accurate from that and that article mentions the prowler as heavily armored....

Linked to the article in a previous post.

[Saint]

I have seen movies of the tanks firing and the shells move like 2.5-3 times as fast as a lightning can go.

[NeoTassadar]

We have yet to see exactly how fast the Mag-Rider is, Zatrais. It just may (since balance is everything) fast enough, in the hands of a skilled driver who can mix it up, be fast enough to dodge tank shells at medium-to-long range (especially since none of these weapons are insta-hit).

[Kyonye]

the Mag-riders ability to strafe is actually great. just like the thresher. yes they both do lose better turning but its ok, they are faster.

[Sputty]

I agree with Zatrais on the tank issue. Prowler has high ROF and highest armor. Vanguard has medium mobility, hefty fireepower and medium armor. Mag-Rider has low armor, high mobility medium firepower.

[Vicentegrad]

well you can't assume it's going to be Prowler vs Vanguard vs Magrider

in modern manuever warfare you'll need mobility. For this, I'd hate to say the VS would have the upper hand. Being able to coordinate your battalion for flanking is very important. However, this is in a free-for-all battle...if you take a handful of tanks from 2 of the Empires and pit them together, it changes everything...

- VS vs NC would lean toward VS since they have the mobility card. If the NC misses with their single large cannon, it gives the VS more time to whittle down their armor

- VS vs TR would favor the TR since even if the VS can avoid a few shots, there is no way they'll be able to avoid the sheer ROF of the Prowler's dual-rifles. Also, I'm thining the VS has the weakest cannon, again giving the Prowler another advantage

- TR vs NC kinda perplexes me. I'm thinking the heavy armor of the Prowler and the heavy firepower of the Vanguard cancel each other out, but again the ROF advantage of the TR gives it the upper hand. I'm not too sure

Again this changes even more when you factor in infantry and buggies. I will certainly always bring a few support vehicles to aid my tanks in battle.

- NC buggy gives heavy firepower against the other tanks with mobility aswell, thus evening out the NC vs VS battle

- TR and VS buggies add capability that fills out the shortcomings of the tanks

In conclusion, if I ever command, I'll be sure to have my own buggies (grenade launchers and HMG's, oh my!) to clear out the enemy buggies, and then use the grenade launchers to be a stinging gnat to the enemy tanks. Mwa hahaha, I love the TR!

[NeoTassadar]

Once the devs have finished tweaking the game, you will not (with any shred of logic) be able to favor any one side in any kind of fight. They are striving for total balance of overall fighting ability, just in different categories of strengths. I applaud the devs for that, as that is one huge job to balance mobility/armor/variety/versitility/firepower/ROF/specialization/manuverablility/range/quality vs. quantity/the list goes on.
That is said with totally unbiased opinion.

That being said,:vsrocks:
That is said with my biased opinion.

[�io]

Everybody here seems to be forgetting one thing : we haven't played yet.

Point is we can't say "oh in a 1 on 1 combat the Vanguard will totally kick the Mag-rider's ass" we don't know what's the difference of armor,speed and firepower between each tank. Maybe the vanguard has 3 times more armor and firepower than the mag-rider. Maybe it only has � more. We have no clue. :)

[balab]

i'm interested in how effective the 20mm cannon on the vanguard is against infantry. splash size/dmg and RoF is of concern.

any ideas/opinions?

[Destroyeron]

The Prowler had 2 100mm cannons and duel 12mm cannons with heavy armour. So even if it misses and takes a hit, it still had that other 100mm waiting to fire, assuming you didn't fire them both.

I think it will all depend on the ability for the driver and gunner to work cooperatively.

[Zatrais]

Why we discuss a game we havn't played?

Cause Theoryside whit the current info is all we got damnit... i want beta!

[Ap@thy]

I would love to put down my treatise on tanks right now, but I have to go to work.

Taking from the Germans in WW2, one thing is known. Air superiority is the key to winning with tanks. Period, end of story, no debate. Let's assume that the air superiority (read=skill) is the same for all the empires, then the VS buggy is going down first, the Vanguard second and the TR third due to armor. The NC have a TOW missile for anti-air, and each empire has an AntiAir Max loadout they can use.

I personally am going TR. The rest of you can go whatever you want, but just keep an eye on the sky as I tell my friends to blow you away. ;)

Ap@thy

[Streamline]

Originally posted by Tobias
No, I dont have a reason, and I dont need one. And If I did have a reason I would lie and say I didnt, for if I had a reason it would prove that the design was flawed, but it is Vanu and thus that can not be. Stop with your questions.

:rofl: Okay.

[RCB_Ghost]

Yap yap yap, that's all I see here. I'll keep it sweet and short.

- NC tank has the most fire power.

- TR tank has the best armour.

- VS tank has the most manuverability.

Thay all have there own seperate trait, making them no better or no worse then the others.

Thank-you.

[AztecWarrior]

The MAG-Rider is good for racing. But not for combat. 'cause when you HAVE to shoot, the shots they fire actually DO something to you!

The Prowler is not bad, actually.

The Vanguard is King of the battlefield.

The Lightning is awesome for like flak or anti-infantry. Like going into the base with the MAXes while Vanguards provide anti-vehicle cover. Do not attempt to engage a main battle tank unless in packs or defensively. You will get your hind end kicked. Unless it's a MAG-Rider.

[SandTrout]

The Prowler is also a 3-man tank. It has a driver, a gunner for the main guns, and the mini-guns on top can be controled independently by a 2nd gunner. Also, the prowler has 2 100mm cannons, thats 200 total mms of firepower. The mini-guns will without a doubt have a much higher ROF than the Vangaurd's 20mms, but do less damage per shot, as the are 12mms(roughly .50 cal).

If this game is going to be anything like real life in relation to the uses of different weapon calibers, the 20mms will still be useful against other medium-heavy tanks, while the 12mms will only be effective against aircraft, light armor, and infantry.

However, this might upset the game balance, so don't count on anything at this point.

[Moloch]

Can the magrider cannon move up/down? If not, it sucks.

[Fire_Monkey]

most likely, otherwise that Would suckxxorz

[Zatrais]

Looks like theres a joint that allows for vertical movement on it yeah

[NeoTassadar]

I hope they don't make the Mag-Rider that much weaker in armor and weapons (Mag-Rider:Prowler = Sherman:JagPanther), but if they do, that thing will have to be damn zippy. Then I wouldn't care. What's the use of any turret if your enemy can go faster than it can turn to track it? Anyone who played AvP will know what I mean (the Smartgun/Plasmacaster useless against anyone who knows what they're doing as Alien). Not just autoaim, though. These are turrets, so it's not like just turning around on foot.

[Camping Carl]

They won't bother balancing it. I mean, why would they? The vanu are supposed to lose, that's what they're there for. :p

[NeoTassadar]

*smiles politely while loading gun under table*

[Vicentegrad]

the Sherman reference makes an interesting point

will there be something in the game that will allow the VS to have more tanks than either the TR or NC? In WWII the Sherman was quite frankly a bad tank but we had so godamned many of them. Like we used to say of the Soviet Red Army: Quantity has a quality all of its own.

How do you get a tank anyway? Are they purchased? Or do you pop one out of the vending machine once you have a cert

[Zatrais]

Walk up to a terminal and order one... no limits.

[Vicentegrad]

so certs are the only thing limiting tank numbers....hmmm, is this good or bad? I can't tell

:confused:

[NeoTassadar]

Good. They took out money, so do you want to stand in line for ten minutes for it to come in/spawn or whatever?

[Kalam]

I do not understand, why everyone thinks of the Mag-Rider as some kind of lightwight.


Let's see what it says in the Vehicle Stats:

Mag-rider
Source: Vanu Sovereignty
Type: Heavy Tank
Role: Heavy assault


so it may even be heavier armored than the Vanguard, which is only classified as medium.

[Zatrais]

wheter or not you have to wait in line to be able to use the vehicle terminal and if theres a user limit on the termial hasn't been officialy stated but i'd imagen there is...

Basicly, you walk up to a terminal, wait for the guy to finnish spawning his vehicle if theres 1 using the termianl. Once you've spawned the vehicle you want you're "flagged" whit a timer that prevents you from spawning more vehicles.. how long that timer is isn't something i know, but i don't see it as beeing too long, just enough to keep llamas from spamming vehicles all over a base.

[Vicentegrad]

*sigh* good ol' forum community

anyhow, if I were commanding a group of VS (which I won't be, har har) I'd try for mass mechanized force

If you weren't in a MAX, a Magrider, or a Thresher, you weren't coming. This way you use the maneuverability advantage to it's fullest extent. It would allow you to rip enemy infantry to shreds with the Threshers, while my tanks and MAX's get rid of the enemy light-vehicles. Once this is done, my entire force could flit about the enemy tanks with stick-and-move tactics...hopefully

[NeoTassadar]

I would want just a few, because large numbers adversely affect mobility (more chance of running into eachother).

[Vicentegrad]

do we know if accidentally colliding with a friendly vehicle causes damage?

[NeoTassadar]

Don't know, but you would get stuck for a least a few seconds. That takes away your mobility for just long enough, Prowler takes aim, boom. Big chunk of your armor gone.

[Ap@thy]

Originally posted by NeoTassadar
I would want just a few, because large numbers adversely affect mobility (more chance of running into eachother).



Please, please, please let me go up against your tank squad. Formations are used for mobility and concentration of fire. (Running into each other...lol, sorry, that's just too much.) Formations are also used to insure you don't run into each other.

I am waiting for the day that my overwatch catches you skylining and my echelon wastes you before my other echelon gets the chance to flank.

If 'flank' is the only tank term you understand there, then you should to consider operating another vehicle than a tank or doing some research.

Ap@thy

[NeoTassadar]

Yes, formations do help mobility. However, having a large number of tanks would be unorganized since you can only have a maximum of nine people under one squad leader (only ten people per squad). That gives you 3-5 tanks that are well organized in one group. To make a large number, you need several officers talking to eachother and relaying that to the squaddies, not to mention dissagreements, misinterpretation, etc. By the time you get off one organized decision, a small group is already in good position and firing. In real life, however, I would agree with you on numbers, since officers definately have more than nine people under their command.

[Zatrais]

You can make a platoon, thats 3 squads togehter... i'd imagen theres a platoon chat.

[Duritz]

So you're saying that you will attempt to avoid enemy ordnance while in formation? Sorry, but that won't happen, especially if ANYONE in the area hasn't trained for hours with you.

Even if I wanted to be a tank driver, I would not spend my time tring to get my teammates to learn to stay close to each other, and not hit each other. And if you STAY in formation all of the time, you will be hard pressed to have all units avoid fire, since formation is more important than utilizing your units' most powerful asset, mobility.

You can be a mobile unit and fire in concentration without having to be close to each other, as well. It just simply takes communication.

Also, i severly doubt that most of the people driving tanks will be proficient with the terminology; even though I understand it, and many other here do as well, it won't be used, so get off of your high horse.

edit: i simulpost more everyday *sigh*

[NeoTassadar]

Exactly. He and I did say mobility, so I was arguing that. What I meant was manuverability, and you hit the nail on the head on that subject.

[Sniper Jack]

You all seem to notice one flaw in that plan...most of those people playing may be teenagers with no will to cooperate anyway. You know, the 14 year olds that think they have 1337 skills and can do it alone? Sure, you could do it with your outfit, but who's to say everyone is good at that kind of thing? And don't forget, perifreal (sp?) vision doesn't factor into it...you won't notice you and a friend coming a wee bit too close to one another until it's almost too late. Small squads of vehicles (3-6 should be more than enough) will be more effective, not some huge formation. Have a huge force like that, and all the n00bs and ego-freaks will definetly be a bigger thorn in your side than the MAX's plinking at you.

[Duritz]

I had already started writing my post when you posted, NeoTassadar, so I wasn't arguing about what you said. I think that you explained what you meant quite clearly.

[AztecWarrior]

If I led an armored vehicle outfit, it would have:
6 Main Battle Tanks (MAG-Rider, Vanguard, Prowler)
4 Light Tanks (Lightning)
A Sunderer (medics and engineers)

[NeoTassadar]

Sorry for misunderstanding, and thanks.

[Vicentegrad]

Aztec, I really suggest bringing atleast a few of the empire-specific buggies for support

Both the TR and NC bugs have a fantastic anti-vehicular capability coupled with superb speed and agility

the VS bug would give you a grand advantage over enemy infantry