Free to download?

[Rumblepit]

i know there has been speculation, but im looking for confirmation .

this in my eyes will be the deciding factor of this games future.free to download will mean that this game may last 1 to 3 months before its taken offline.all it takes is 1 OPK,SVP,0 DELAY, and the game is over. it mite be cool the first time you see a hacker throw a frag and kill 1000 players at once, but after hrs,days weeks, months, it gets old fast. people who play ps1 already know what free to play can do to a game, and what effect a hacker can have in a game of this scale. this is why there is no free trial for ps1 right?

pay to download and free 2 play will still bring a few hackers but they cant just make another account 10 mins after being ban and go right back to hacking. they will have to buy the game again. so its 40 to 60$ every time you get caught hacking.i think this is the only way this type of game can use a f2p model.

[CuddlyChud]

I think the only people who can confirm the business model are the people at SOE, and they've stated that they're not ready to release those details.

However, I personally think it will be completely F2P, no box price. Personally, I don't see a problem with that. I haven't played that many F2P games, but in the ones I have I never noticed an inordinate amount of cheaters compared to a boxed game. I just think F2P has had some really outstanding cases (APB comes to mind) where hacking was rampant, giving it a bad name.

As far as the reserve system goes, I really don't think that was a good example of F2P games. A lot of older games like PS1 had hacking issues since anti-hack software wasn't very advanced at the time. The fact that Planetside was an FPS shoehorned into the original Everquest engine didn't help things.

I'm sure SOE wouldn't choose a business model they knew they wasn't sustainable. PS2 seems to be a big budget ticket for them, and they can't really afford yet another flop. F2P seems to be the trend that the market is moving towards, and as an economics major I implicitly trust the market :).

[Rumblepit]

see this is the million dollar decision they have to make.

APB made the wrong choice, and made online gaming history game as the fastest flop. it was taken offline 90 days after release.


go with fast cash and hackers or have faith in your product sell it for money .

i have faith in this product!!! if i was working for soe on the ps2 project i would be FIRED the moment i heard the words "free to download".

[Coreldan]

It is not F2P if its not free to download. That is then a whole other business model.

APB originally did not go down cos of cheaters, they were bankrupt by the time the game was released. The problem was bad financial control than anything.

That said, if they've had any brains when making the engine, they make most of the stuff server side. That means that stuff like damage and radius (a grenade killing 1000 players as you mentioned) wouldnt be possible. That only leaves us with wallhacks and aimbots, while they are enough to kill a game, are still far less worse than those "ima kill the whole server" cheats.

PS1 is such an old game and was pretty much unique at it's time. The engine reflects that. Just about no modern online game will let the client do damage calculations and the likes, just cos it makes for really easy cheating. I doubt they would make that mistake of making the game client-side bases in 2011.

That said, I too would much prefer having some onetime fee on account creation. Even a small one to keep chronic cheaters at bay in the long run, but they say it's f2p, which rules out costs like that, as it IS NOT FREE TO PLAY IF IT COSTS TO PLAY.

[LZachariah]

I am almost 100% certain that there will be no box price (ie- it will be 100% F2P), because those of us who had pre-ordered copies at Gamestop were notified that "the game was canceled," which doesn't mean that the game has been dropped (Higby confirmed that they are definitely on-track to launch the game) but that Gamestop doesn't actually have anything "to sell." That means the game (which Gamestop previously thought cost $50 or whatever) actually costs nothing.

~Zachariah

[Rumblepit]

APB originally did not go down cos of cheaters, they were bankrupt by the time the game was released. The problem was bad financial control than anything.



this is true, they were bankrupt, and they used a substandard hack prevention, then they couldnt afford to hire more people to deal with the hackers and bugs in game. then they flopped. and sold the game to the one and only GAMERSFIRST. these people are the slumlords of the gaming industry.and the only games they host are f2p. just throw some random numbers out there, id have to say there is a 65 to 35 % hacker to legit players ratio in all the games they host.

if it is free to download then most of you guys wont last long at all. i know i wont.
just for shets and giggles you should download and play some WARROCK, its fp2 and has pretty good hack prevention and second to none fps combat, combat in this game is just sick. and play for 1 hr and tell me how many hackers you saw. this will be the future of ps2 if they go down this road

[xSlideShow]

Download and play some League of Legends, or Global Agenda. F2P does not mean hackers. If you think about it, it is the absolute best thing to happen to Planetside. F2P means you can take breaks and your never going to quit because you have to pay for the game. It also means that your friends have no excuse to not try a game. It opens up the window for a lot of players.

Hackers have nothing to do with the business model.


if it is free to download then most of you guys wont last long at all. i know i wont.
just for shets and giggles you should download and play some WARROCK, its fp2 and has pretty good hack prevention and second to none fps combat, combat in this game is just sick. and play for 1 hr and tell me how many hackers you saw. this will be the future of ps2 if they go down this road

There will always be cheaters, even if you have to pay for the game. F2P is the future of gaming, embrace it, cause it's awesome. SOE should be able to handle hackers, if they cannot then it's not going to matter if they make us pay for the game or not. It will die because of hackers. It won't have anything to do with the business model.

[Coreldan]

Global Agenda is an interesting example. It is a game just like APB where aimbots and wallhacks could give you an edge. Why arn't they present? Is the anti-cheat so good (Doubt it, as cheats always bypass the current build of anticheat)? Is HI-rez handling the cheaters away so well? Is the game too crappy to be worth the time of cheat devs?

As for LoL, it's not quite a comparable game. Most modern games have aimbot and wallhack available and thats it, you can't do much more in modern games cos of server side verification. I havnt played LoL, but I know aimbot sure doesnt do anything for you there :D

Global Agenda was a good example, though.

Hardware bans could go a long way, even if those can be bypassed, it should be a whole lot of more trouble than just creating a new acc in 2 minutes.

That said, hackers do have something to do with business model, it's often the worst in F2P games, where nothing stops them from coming back 2 mins after they get banned.

VAC isn't any better as an anticheat, the thing just is that most VAC secured games have community-run servers, where the admins can enforce the rules. The problem in APB for example is that there aint enough staff to go around to ban the blatant cheaters at all times. Then again, those server running admins often kick innocent people too just cos they happen to kick ass.

[Hamma]

We already know that SOE (per Higby, Smed and T-Ray) are well aware of what Hackers can do to a game and are dedicated to stopping them. I talked to them personally about it at Fan Faire and I know it's very important to them. I'm sure that anti-hack is VERY high on the priority list for game development giving customer support the tools needed to combat hackers when they arise.

PlanetSide 1 has little to none of these tools and was easily hacked and compromised without much thought. It just was not as big of a deal back then.

If SOE is dedicated to stopping hackers and they put development time and their sizable customer service staff against it then we will be in good hands.

As for APB the nails were in the coffin before they even launched. The company was mismanaged and priorities on it were horrible.

[Zulthus]

Yeah, what Coreldan said. League of Legends truly has been a shitty example for some time now. Hacking would be such a waste of time on that game. You can't wallhack, aimbot, kill everyone instantly, or anything. Who would waste their time on that?

I honestly think PS2 should have a box price of at least $19.99. Anyone can pay for it, and hackers won't keep paying that much. Free download just leads to them coming back, coming back, and coming back for even more. And just because "everyone is doing it", why should PS2 follow the trend? If the game is good enough, people will pay money for it. It sounds like you all don't have very much faith in the game. Planetside 1 had a huge amount of subscribers for a few years, and they only left because of the lack of content updates (or a specific content update), not because it was a bad game. You guys call me a tight ass for not wanting to spend money. :lol:

[Rumblepit]

Download and play some League of Legends, or Global Agenda. F2P does not mean hackers. If you think about it, it is the absolute best thing to happen to Planetside. F2P means you can take breaks and your never going to quit because you have to pay for the game. It also means that your friends have no excuse to not try a game. It opens up the window for a lot of players.

Hackers have nothing to do with the business model.



There will always be cheaters, even if you have to pay for the game. F2P is the future of gaming, embrace it, cause it's awesome. SOE should be able to handle hackers, if they cannot then it's not going to matter if they make us pay for the game or not. It will die because of hackers. It won't have anything to do with the business model.

my name was rumblepit on global agenda, i played with vanquish for a long time. there were hackers in global agenda, but the game had such a low pop and such a tight community that they never became a problem.league of legends ,,, lol what kind of hacks could you use in that game anyway???????????



f2p is awesome and the future of gaming??????????

hers some info for your" f2p is awesome". swtor had 750,000 players in beta on stress test weekend. 1.5 million sub in the first 2 weeks of release. next month they should be close to 2 million, and it will continue to grow.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
this is what soe wants .... but they dont think they can pull it off so they are
going to play it safe with the f2p model.



they can have the best anti hack in the world. but will will stop the script kiddies from making new accounts.


MARK MY WORDS..... THIS WILL MAKE OR BREAK THIS GAME.

[Coreldan]

Star Wars and WoW are sort of hard to compare to Planetside. Both have extremely strong lores from way back before the games were even made. Unless you live in very poor conditions in a 3rd world country, you know what Star Wars is.

I don't know anyone IRL who knows what Planetside is.

It is not that simple, it is not about how good the game is either to get a good looking start.

As for f2p, I agree, it's a plague but sadly it is the way the industry is going to. However, I heard some source saying that now the industry is sorta starting to move away again from f2p model, cos people are starting to realize that to get the same content they get with a subscription/box cost game, they have to pay way more.

However, I don't think that breakpoint happens any time soon. SWTOR is likely to be just about the only succesful sub based new game. Retail box games will still manage, but that is widely dependant on the game. Games that are community-hosted servers or peer2peer tech can use boxed cost and be succesful. PS2 can't do that, cos running the servers costs and the staff to upkeep it all and manage the game is really expensive.

Before you take GW as an example, it as really low ongoing costs, cos most of the game is hosted p2p. PS2 can't do that, nor can it use community hosted servers. The game has to pay the bills and currently f2p pays it better for any MMO that isnt world known before its launch than a boxed cost + sub.

[Rumblepit]

Yeah, what Coreldan said. League of Legends truly has been a shitty example for some time now. Hacking would be such a waste of time on that game. You can't wallhack, aimbot, kill everyone instantly, or anything. Who would waste their time on that?

I honestly think PS2 should have a box price of at least $19.99. Anyone can pay for it, and hackers won't keep paying that much. Free download just leads to them coming back, coming back, and coming back for even more. And just because "everyone is doing it", why should PS2 follow the trend? If the game is good enough, people will pay money for it. It sounds like you all don't have very much faith in the game. Planetside 1 had a huge amount of subscribers for a few years, and they only left because of the lack of content updates (or a specific content update), not because it was a bad game. You guys call me a tight ass for not wanting to spend money. :lol:

19.99$ digital download will stop most hackers from comin back.

[Hobitt]

19.99$ digital download will stop most hackers from comin back.

It wont some recent games showed that even in beta stage there were hacks later they tracked the site and prices for hacks are 30$ + and they didint care about vac bans on steam so if people want to cheat 20$ wont stop them

P.S im new here :p

[Coreldan]

It will also stop a crapton of players from ever trying the game.

A retail cost means the game is not f2p, so you can stop hoping, it won't happen at this point anymore.

20$ does stop long term chronic cheaters from coming back. They might try once or twice, but it will be VERY few who will be buying several 20usd copies per week :D

[Rumblepit]

Star Wars and WoW are sort of hard to compare to Planetside. Both have extremely strong lores from way back before the games were even made. Unless you live in very poor conditions in a 3rd world country, you know what Star Wars is.

I don't know anyone IRL who knows what Planetside is.

It is not that simple, it is not about how good the game is either to get a good looking start.



you really dont think they can pull a million players on launch ????? your thinking like the boys upstairs that made the choice to go this route.


this game could very well shet all over wows pop. i truly believe this. y would 10s of millions not want to play ps2. recent stats show more fps players the mmo players.

[Coreldan]

Why didn't PS manage it? It was way more unique and ground breaking at it's time than PS2 will be now.

One reason is marketing. Marketing costs shitloads. The game is also alot more of a niche game than fe. SWTOR or BF3 is.

But I'm with you, I'd really want the game even to have a 5$ account activation cost. It wouldnt stop everyone, but it would end up expensive just to keep paying that for cheatings sake. But we both know it won't happen at this point anymore.

[Raymac]

http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/12/21

I'm thinking after the "unpleasantness" that SOE went through last summer, that they will be fairly focused on policing hackers.

Also, we should be well aware by now that the devs arn't completely pants on head, so they understand the dynamic of "script kiddies just making new accounts" as well as anyone. And we can also be pretty sure they arn't going to just say "to hell with it, let this stupid game that we don't care about fail". Sooooo, they'll handle it. Don't panic.

[Rumblepit]

Why didn't PS manage it? It was way more unique and ground breaking at it's time than PS2 will be now.

One reason is marketing. Marketing costs shitloads. The game is also alot more of a niche game than fe. SWTOR or BF3 is.

But I'm with you, I'd really want the game even to have a 5$ account activation cost. It wouldnt stop everyone, but it would end up expensive just to keep paying that for cheatings sake. But we both know it won't happen at this point anymore.
why didnt ps manage it????? it was a stupid idea then .... wft a mmofps????
ps was way ahead of its time. thats why . trust me when i say there is and has been nothing like this game ever.... i spent years looking. darkfall, mortal online, global agenda, boarderlands, apb, gta,brink team fortress.



can someone tell me why they took down the free trial for ps1?????????????

[Raymac]

can someone tell me why they took down the free trial for ps1?????????????

Because they didn't have the resources to fix bugs let alone police hackers.

PS2 will have far more support and resources than PS1 did in 2006.

[Rumblepit]

http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/12/21

I'm thinking after the "unpleasantness" that SOE went through last summer, that they will be fairly focused on policing hackers.

Also, we should be well aware by now that the devs arn't completely pants on head, so they understand the dynamic of "script kiddies just making new accounts" as well as anyone. And we can also be pretty sure they arn't going to just say "to hell with it, let this stupid game that we don't care about fail". Sooooo, they'll handle it. Don't panic.

if they can manage to take care of the hackers that come with f2p games then they will make more money off that tech then the game itself.

[Rumblepit]

Because they didn't have the resources to fix bugs let alone police hackers.

PS2 will have far more support and resources than PS1 did in 2006.


AHHHHHHHHH i see there was a hacker issue when people could create accounts for free???????


I GET IT.:doh:

[Raymac]

if they can manage to take care of the hackers that come with f2p games then they will make more money off that tech then the game itself.

Not really. Server side metrics aren't all that complicated.

Be cool dude.

[Raymac]

AHHHHHHHHH i see there was a hacker issue when people could create accounts for free???????


I GET IT.:doh:

Douchebag set up question gets a douchebag response. I knew we were going to say exactly that, but I was hoping you were better than that.

[ThGlump]

F2P will surely bring tons of players. I dont fear that there wont be enough players. I fear that players that care about planetside (mainly ps1 vets) will vanish from ps2 in first 3 months after release due unbearable hacker count.
Yet there still be tons of players who dont mind hacking or are hackers. But it will be soulless zerg as planetside spirit will be long gone.

[Rumblepit]

guys dont get me wrong... please..... i fing love this game. and i know what it could be. they do this ,and its just fubar.there will be no saving it.

[Zulthus]

But I'm with you, I'd really want the game even to have a 5$ account activation cost. It wouldnt stop everyone, but it would end up expensive just to keep paying that for cheatings sake. But we both know it won't happen at this point anymore.

We don't "know" anything at all yet. They said it might be F2P, but who knows, maybe they'll put in a box price, DD fee, we don't know.

[Raymac]

guys dont get me wrong... please..... i fing love this game. and i know what it could be. they do this ,and its just fubar.there will be no saving it.

I hear you dude, and I'm sorry for getting bitchy. Just ask yourself, do you think the devs don't know what you know? Or do you think they don't care?

That's why, even though it is an extremely valid concern you are voicing, I'm not going to worry about it.

As the devs have said a number of times, and already proven in some cases, they "have got this".

[Rumblepit]

Douchebag set up question gets a douchebag response. I knew we were going to say exactly that, but I was hoping you were better than that.
sorry man just making a point, i started playing 4 months ago, and i got in on a free trial. then subed the same day. i came on the forums and screamed and yell how much i loved the game . moments later there was a thread on the forums "wtf are the free trials doing up" ............... then they were off again.

thats y i thought of it. i meant nothing by it .

[ThGlump]

As the devs have said a number of times, and already proven in some cases, they "have got this".

Show me some game/company that won against hackers. Only way to limit hackers is to hurt their wallet.

[Raymac]

Show me some game/company that won against hackers. Only way to limit hackers is to hurt their wallet.

Show me a police force that won against crime.

Even hurting their wallets won't get rid of them. It's impossible to completely eliminate all hackers, but it is possible with staff, technology, and a helpful community to limit hackers' impact. Right?

[Rivenshield]

How the flying mortal fuck can anyone think the *CLIENT* is going to be free? You think SOE is a goddam not-for-profit co-op that creates entertainment for love and lulz?

FREE TO PLAY is the same business model as, say, Guild Wars or any of the Battlefield series. You pay for the client. That's your sole initial cost, though they may dangle other goodies in front of your nose to cajole more cash out of you later on. FREE TO PLAY means it costs nothing to log on and, you know, fucking PLAY. It doesn't mean you still don't have to buy the goddam GAME, and purchasing the client it doesn't make it *NOT* FREE TO PLAY.

You whiney 20-something Occupy Wall Street retards. 'Wah, boohoo, if I don't get everything for free on a silver platter it's not fair'. Grow up.

[Raymac]

How the flying mortal fuck can anyone think the *CLIENT* is going to be free? You think SOE is a goddam not-for-profit co-op that creates entertainment for love and lulz?

FREE TO PLAY is the same business model as, say, Guild Wars or any of the Battlefield series. You pay for the client. That's your sole initial cost, though they may dangle other goodies in front of your nose to cajole more cash out of you later on. FREE TO PLAY means it costs nothing to log on and, you know, fucking PLAY. It doesn't mean you still don't have to buy the goddam GAME, and purchasing the client it doesn't make it *NOT* FREE TO PLAY.

You whiney 20-something Occupy Wall Street retards. 'Wah, boohoo, if I don't get everything for free on a silver platter it's not fair'. Grow up.

DCUO?

[Hobitt]

The best thing against hackers is an active community

[ThGlump]

Show me a police force that won against crime.

Even hurting their wallets won't get rid of them. It's impossible to completely eliminate all hackers, but it is possible with staff, technology, and a helpful community to limit hackers' impact. Right?

Yea but if you commit a crime and get caught, you go to jail, unless you have enough money (sadly).
In game terms - if you hack and get caught, you cant play, unless you buy another game.

Without initial purchase there is no consequence. If you catch someone who just murdered someone, you dont just tell him "you really should not do that" and let him go, so he can do that again. Thats f2p without any initial purchase.

And yes nothing can get rid of all hackers. But if they need to pay you reduce they numbers by 90%. Without consequence even those who normally dont hack will be tempted to try that.

[ThGlump]

The best thing against hackers is an active community

Hackers can kill community. Its really discouraging if you report some hackers, and 5 min later you have to report them again under slightly different names, and 5 min later again and again and again. Soon you say screw this and go find another game.

How can community win?

[Rumblepit]

The best thing against hackers is an active community

to be honest it dose help alot. but it wont put a dent in their population. THEY WILL JUST CREATE ANOTHER ACCOUNT.

[LongBow]

You can "hack" PS1 by having a multi-core processor, the game is just THAT old, code structure and networking have come a long way since planet sides release.

PS1 had hacking problems not because the game was free, but because the game was easy to gain interface with.

[Hobitt]

By active community i mean some sort of admins who can IP ban after a few IP bans i think a hacker would get bored

[Nephilimuk]

wait to see what happens when the game comes out. If it all goes wrong and it becomes hackagedon then vote with your feet. Nothing quite like that in numbers to get a companies attention. (Looking at how we are engaged with the Dev team at the moment then personally I don't have any concerns here)

Until the game is released its just more doomsday threads which have no substance and many replicas in one form or another on these boards.

Pointless if you ask me and bad for business if your all right, the developers are smart and will try to not allow that to happen on a large scale.

However you must expect a little hacking and it will happen as a new exploits are discovered then closed down.

[Crator]

If it gets out of hand they might have to put a restriction in like an entry fee. I'm hoping they find multiple avenues to defending the game against hackers, which I believe they will...

DC Universe Online is another SOE game that is completely free to play, without a box price... I don't really play that game so can't comment personally on if there is hacking there... Looks to be some exploits going on, which is not good news...

Reported speed-hacker exploit in 2010:
DC UNIVERSE ONLINE SPEED HACK/EXPLOIT. - YouTube

Mention of speed-hackers returning in 8/2011 due to patches:
DCUO: Speed Hackers Return! (http://www.mmofringe.com/forum/37-DC-Universe-Online/15245-DCUO-Speed-Hackers-Return!)

Post by SOE team about hacking on 8/11/2011: (http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/posts/list.m?topic_id=32009)
If you’re not playing by the rules, know that the fun you’ve had at the expense of our skilled players is coming to an end. We are in the process of actively and aggressively pursuing those you using third party software to cheat. We will track and find you, it’s only a matter of time. If you are casually trying out a “speedhack” or other cheat, I would strongly suggest you return to your regularly scheduled program now. There will be no future amnesty as we take the impact of this and its effects on our true players very seriously. If this is a way of life for you, I suggest you find another place to live.

Heroes and Villains of Metropolis and Gotham, you too can help us end this blight. As we grow our tools to track and end this, you can do your part of cleaning up the streets by reporting suspected cheaters, hackers and other miscreants using the procedure outlined below.

1. Go here: https://soe-ing.custhelp.com/app/ask/
2. Set Product to “DC Universe Online” or ““DC Universe Online PS3” , and the Category to “[DCUO] Community Standards”
3. Enter your Server (this should now be way easier!) and Character Name.
4. Enter the Subject as “Cheating”.
5. Enter as much information as you can in the Question field. In particular, location, player name, behavior witnessed. Be specific, saying someone is “cheating” or “speed hacking” is not as useful as reporting the specific actions they took that led you to this conclusion. There is no need to attach files. Please reference the “/Report” feature if you have used it to report the same incident.

It does work, but it’s not the only tool in our arsenal. Just know that we are listening, we are watching, and we are everywhere. Have a nice day.

-manderson and the DCUO team

Also, just to test, I made a dummy free account via the DCUO webpage and only info required was username and email address... So, if they are banning accounts in DCUO not sure how those people can't just create new ones....

[Shogun]

another problem with ps1 was, that it was never the flagship of soe.
at it´s time soe was also hosting swg and everquest and contributed most ressources to these two games!
but today i am confident that soe has noticed the potential of planetside 2 and they already showed that it is very high on their priority list now, if not on poleposition!
this time they will care for the game as it seems to be their last chance to conquer back the market.
so we will have hard working devs that actively fight hackers, instead of a monkey who doesn´t even get bananas. ;-)

[SKYeXile]

This indie game, advertised only on steam and amazon sold 600k copies, with a $12 purchase fee...planetside 2 advertised on steam? as F2p? will go off.

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/12/22/dungeon-defenders-picks-up-gold-from-600k-sales/

[Raymac]

If cheating was a major problem in DCUO since it went f2p, then you would probably see the forums blowing up like they did with Planetside Reserves like this: http://forums.station.sony.com/ps/posts/list.m?topic_id=88000016188

But I really don't see that on the DCUO forums and most of the "cheat / hacker" threads are before it went f2p.

Not saying that's a scientific analysis, but if it was a hugely gamebreaking problem, you'd expect to see more screaming like what we did.

[Rumblepit]

dcuo,,,, not many hacks out there to change gameplay that much anyway.


2 outcomes from f2p ps2,,,,, becomes very very popular and is making soe some good money. but with higher pops comes more hackers, well then they have to hire more people to combat hackers. but thats comin out of somebody pocket. and what happens next is the people making money off this game decide the reason for making this game was to make money, so who cares if we dont have enough admins to combat the hackers , they pay too, they will get banned at some point. no need to hire more people.hackers out number admins, hackers drive out legit players, hackers run the game into the ground.

or you end up with a somewhat popular fp2 game and you just have enough people to keep the game afloat, deal with the hackers using what staff you have, and hope and pray the game pays for itself before it tanks.

anybody on these forums play any f2p games ever?????????????
warrock , combat arms, cross fire,counter strike,apb????

the reason i ask, is that all these f2p fps games are ran by hackers. you can only play when the hackers allow it. they run these games,not the admins... what makes you think they are gonna let the almighty admins of soe run ps2????????????????

[Xyntech]

anybody on these forums play any f2p games ever?????????????
warrock , combat arms, cross fire,counter strike,apb????

the reason i ask, is that all these f2p fps games are ran by hackers. you can only play when the hackers allow it. they run these games,not the admin... what makes you think they are gonna let the almighty admins of soe run ps2????????????????

Nice AAA titles you mention there :rolleyes:

How about TF2? It's about the only high production value FPS I can think of that's gone completely F2P (free to play, free to download, no verification needed). There were hackers in it before it went F2P and there are hackers afterwards, but it hasn't really gotten any worse. No more hackers than any other popular FPS out there.

Hacking happens the most in poorly made games with easily exploited code. High end titles that have a proactive development team and well written code to start out with have much fewer problems with hacking.

Look at PS1. Forget the free play reserve shit, there were hackers/exploiters/cheaters the entire time. It didn't matter that the game was pay to play, because a lot of the cheaters kept it subtle enough to avoid getting caught. The problem was Planetsides buggy code. A lot of shooters never would have had the potential for half the problems in PS1.

Hacking and cheating is a real concern and being F2P certainly makes it that much more important, but real prevention has to come from the coding side. Banning players has always been a band aid solution to help cover the gaps, but it is only the last line of defense.

[Coreldan]

I've played APB some combined 1100 hours by now and still playing and enjoying it. The amount of cheaters has always been much lower than the district chat would make you think. Most hackusations are baseless. Yes, there are cheaters, always has been, but currently the situation isn't all that bad. I also only play in organized clan teams, so a single cheater can't do all that much. Overall speaking the fact that you were guessing a cheater-legit player ratio to be 60-40 or something like that in your original post shows how you are clearly one of those who hackusate anyone who kicks your ass :D

According to half of APB community, my clan is a "known hacker clan", yet the few last big banwaves have caught just about every cheater at least once by now. Now the problem is that the cheaters can come back right away, but the point was that out of over 100 members on Patriot-server in APB, we've had 3 members banned and the rest of us are still sporting our mains and unbanned. And I can guarantee you every single of those remaining members have been accused of cheating too :D TLDR form: the paranoia for cheating is much worse in APB than cheating itself.

As for TF2, in this context you can pretty much compare it cos it has to do with cheaters, but don't try to put it as if TF2 was true F2P game, it started off as pay2play. That said, like every other game with community run servers, the server admins can do so much to keep the game cheaterfree. That is not a similar case in PS2 when the servers are run by SoE, thus all enforcement needs to come from them and that costs money and staff.

And, once again you really can't compare any game that isn't a shooter in terms of f2p and cheating. While DCUO probably has cheats as shown earlier, it is nothing like being able to aimbot and wallhack in a shooter.

As for PS2 future. Do note that these "shitty hackfest F2P games" of for example Gamersfirst has kept the company afloat for well over 10 years now. Warrock still has a solid playerbase up to this day, no matter how crap or cheating infested the game is :D Especially with the whole industry going towards F2P, there are no other games you can resort to in the future, when they are all equally f2p and infested by cheaters, "yay!" :D

[Crator]

Good comments Coreldan. I think the OP was referring to the Reservers free-to-play program that PS1 had for a while. The kinds of hacks that were being used were making the game unplayable. Especially the speed-floating hacks. One person could use this hack and fly around in the air/move around on the ground at super fast speeds. Also in combo with wall hacks one person using them could disrupt an entire continent. It was truly game breaking. Hence the reason SOE had to stop allowing F2P in PS1.

[ThGlump]

Now if there will be any bug (there will be no program is without bugs) that would allow such a exploit, it could take few weeks or month(s) to fix it. So without any consequences in f2p ps2 will be unplayable for that time.

[Rumblepit]

the f2p model is a money maker..... its been proven time and time again. but at what cost?
hackusations will fly and the community will crumble, and the admins will be hated. this happens in every f2p game. i was a leader of the thk clan in warrock, we were the top UO clan in that game, not a day went by we were not called hackers. i know all about hackusations.i have been banned from the warrock forums more then any 2 people combined, because i would refer to the admins as lazy, worthless, asshats. they would add more content, new events, but never did anything about the hackers. because they couldnt do anything about it. this is f2p gaming. i see these people as the slumlords of the gaming industry. they dont care about their product, they dont care about their costumers , they only care about making money. this is why f2p will always gets a bad rep.

[Crator]

No one has mentioned gold farmers... They are a possibility too sense PS2 will have a resource system, no?

[Rumblepit]

No one has mentioned gold farmers... They are a possibility too sense PS2 will have a resource system, no?

gold farmers= power levelers ,and many keyloggers for a f2p planetside2.


accounts will be stolen ,scammed, and sold.


why pay for something in the item shop when you can buy a lvl 40 account for 50 bucks that has access to all the items in game

[Coreldan]

Gold farmers are a minor annoyance compared to cheaters.

Sure, they are nasty and all that, but cheaters can actually ruin the gaming experience itself.

[fuzzehthehydra]

Wow, way to derail a genuine question into a doomsday thread guys :(.

Regardless, the fact is that the game will- whether you like it or not- be F2D/F2P. And you know why? It works, and more than that it has been proven to be one of the most viable business models for gaming since digital distribution. Farmville. Team Fortress 2. Both of the above are success stories, and they are making millions of dollars (the hat economy in TF2 alone is valued at hundreds of thousands of dollars). What kind of sensible company wouldn't try to capitalise on an opportunity like that?

Hackers only ruin a game if both the Devs and the community let them. Anti-cheats, if used efficiently, are brilliant at stopping griefers in their tracks. Sure, they can make a new account if you just ban that individual account. But there's this brilliant thing called an IP-ban, or failing that, a hardware ban. No doubt that won't stop every hacker out there, but deterrence can be a powerful force and a large percentage of cheaters will stop when there are easier targets to pursue.

As for accusations of corruption and cheating? If you're the best in your particular field, such cries of foul play are natural from those too jealous and spiteful to accept that they cannot reach those heights themselves.

Ironically, the one thing that will damage the game more than anything else is a defeatist, negative community, and frankly that's the one thing we are really in danger of possessing.

[Nephilimuk]

Wow, way to derail a genuine question into a doomsday thread guys .

Regardless, the fact is that the game will- whether you like it or not- be F2D/F2P. And you know why? It works, and more than that it has been proven to be one of the most viable business models for gaming since digital distribution. Farmville. Team Fortress 2. Both of the above are success stories, and they are making millions of dollars (the hat economy in TF2 alone is valued at hundreds of thousands of dollars). What kind of sensible company wouldn't try to capitalise on an opportunity like that?

Hackers only ruin a game if both the Devs and the community let them. Anti-cheats, if used efficiently, are brilliant at stopping griefers in their tracks. Sure, they can make a new account if you just ban that individual account. But there's this brilliant thing called an IP-ban, or failing that, a hardware ban. No doubt that won't stop every hacker out there, but deterrence can be a powerful force and a large percentage of cheaters will stop when there are easier targets to pursue.

As for accusations of corruption and cheating? If you're the best in your particular field, such cries of foul play are natural from those too jealous and spiteful to accept that they cannot reach those heights themselves.

Ironically, the one thing that will damage the game more than anything else is a defeatist, negative community, and frankly that's the one thing we are really in danger of possessing.

QFT!

[Rumblepit]

Wow, way to derail a genuine question into a doomsday thread guys :(.

Regardless, the fact is that the game will- whether you like it or not- be F2D/F2P. And you know why? It works, and more than that it has been proven to be one of the most viable business models for gaming since digital distribution. Farmville. Team Fortress 2. Both of the above are success stories, and they are making millions of dollars (the hat economy in TF2 alone is valued at hundreds of thousands of dollars). What kind of sensible company wouldn't try to capitalise on an opportunity like that?

Hackers only ruin a game if both the Devs and the community let them. Anti-cheats, if used efficiently, are brilliant at stopping griefers in their tracks. Sure, they can make a new account if you just ban that individual account. But there's this brilliant thing called an IP-ban, or failing that, a hardware ban. No doubt that won't stop every hacker out there, but deterrence can be a powerful force and a large percentage of cheaters will stop when there are easier targets to pursue.

As for accusations of corruption and cheating? If you're the best in your particular field, such cries of foul play are natural from those too jealous and spiteful to accept that they cannot reach those heights themselves.

Ironically, the one thing that will damage the game more than anything else is a defeatist, negative community, and frankly that's the one thing we are really in danger of possessing.


farmville????? rofl ...... i just wont elaborate on this game at all.
team fortress was not f2p when it was released. they went that direction when numbers were low.

as for ip and hardware banns . well a ip ban will keep a hacker out for 5 mins.
hardware bans???? not sure if any hack prevention programs even use this tech. if they did i would no about it, heck we all would .

i gather from your post that you have never played a f2p game.

[duomaxwl]

Battlefield 2 used hardware bans based on HDD serial numbers iirc.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

[Rumblepit]

Battlefield 2 used hardware bans based on HDD serial numbers iirc.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

problem with that is they can be changed aswell.

[Hobitt]

problem with that is they can be changed aswell.

An avarage cheater wouldn't bother anymore

[Coreldan]

An avarage cheater wouldn't bother anymore

Average cheater won't bother yes, unless the cheat devs actually write up a piece of code that does it for you with just running one executable. Most commercial cheats require monthly subscription and this kinda stuff is quite basic for many of the cheats. Some even go as far to provide another copy/serial for the game if you get detected using their cheats in a pay2play game.

I don't wanna be the negative nancy around here, but playing APB as my main game, I know the risks of going f2p in a game like this. TF2 isnt comparable due to the community run servers (nor is any other game that has community run servers). Global Agenda has managed well with cheaters, but I'm still not sure whether it's good handling from HI-Rez or just so crappy of a game that even cheaters dont really bother.

It is gonna require a crapton of nonstop work from SoE, let's hope they are up to the task. Good thing is they seem to be fully aware of what going f2p in a game like this brings with it, so at least they arnt caught by a surprise. It's just hard work and a lot of resources from here on.

[Rumblepit]

well its all speculation until we hear otherwise i guess.all i know is with f2d your gonna get allot more hackers then you would if it were p2d.

[Hobitt]

Average cheater won't bother yes, unless the cheat devs actually write up a piece of code that does it for you with just running one executable. Most commercial cheats require monthly subscription and this kinda stuff is quite basic for many of the cheats. Some even go as far to provide another copy/serial for the game if you get detected using their cheats in a pay2play game.
Actually it kind of scares me there is a game red ochestra 2 when it entered beta stage you needed to buy a deluxe edition of the game and the beta servers were full of cheaters later we found a website that makes cheats for games and they cost a lot of money and people actually buy them so some cheaters can go very far but because we had active admins and a commuity cheaters dissapeared its not really that hard to spot a cheater in a fps game so i think planetside 2 will do well
I cant understand why game companies cant sue websites that sell hacks

[Coreldan]

You are missing the key point here.

RO2 has servers run by individuals. That means that the server owners can kick and ban blatant cheaters out. Blatant cheaters dont usually remain on servers for long exactly for that reason, cos you have several admins ensuring the experience for like 64 players.

PS2 will have its servers ran entirely by SoE. This means only SoE staff will be able to do squat about cheaters. While in RO2 we had 1-2 admins per 64 players, we will now have 1-2 admins per perhaps a few hundred or even a few thousand players. Community can't really do anything but report and hope for SoE to act, while in RO2 kinda games the server admins could just remove these people fairly fast from their servers.

BTW, I'm also an avid fan of the RO sequel. Easily one of the best FPS games out there IMO.

Pretty much the closest equivalent I can think of to PS2s situation is APB. The game is divided to districts that can hold 100 players each. While the games current owner isnt really well known for cheater handling, they do have several GMs patrolling, but its nowhere near enough to guarantee the same experience individually owned servers can have in other games.

And perhaps the biggest problem of all, these GMs that will have to be hired by SoE cost money, quite a bit of it. In addition to that, they can only really catch the blatant cases. Anyone who has the brains to tweak down their aimbot so that it wont snap around like a madman can't really be proven to be cheating just from watching them play.

[Hobitt]

You are missing the key point here.

RO2 has servers run by individuals. That means that the server owners can kick and ban blatant cheaters out. Blatant cheaters dont usually remain on servers for long exactly for that reason, cos you have several admins ensuring the experience for like 64 players.

PS2 will have its servers ran entirely by SoE. This means only SoE staff will be able to do squat about cheaters. While in RO2 we had 1-2 admins per 64 players, we will now have 1-2 admins per perhaps a few hundred or even a few thousand players. Community can't really do anything but report and hope for SoE to act, while in RO2 kinda games the server admins could just remove these people fairly fast from their servers.

BTW, I'm also an avid fan of the RO sequel. Easily one of the best FPS games out there IMO.

Pretty much the closest equivalent I can think of to PS2s situation is APB. The game is divided to districts that can hold 100 players each. While the games current owner isnt really well known for cheater handling, they do have several GMs patrolling, but its nowhere near enough to guarantee the same experience individually owned servers can have in other games.

And perhaps the biggest problem of all, these GMs that will have to be hired by SoE cost money, quite a bit of it. In addition to that, they can only really catch the blatant cases. Anyone who has the brains to tweak down their aimbot so that it wont snap around like a madman can't really be proven to be cheating just from watching them play.
Maybe there should be more moderators who work for free i mean voulanteers who can ban
P.s Ro2 for now is not realistic enough for me good to see someone from the same community :)

[Coreldan]

Sadly, majority of the community will be against giving any kick/ban powers to non-hired people.

Probably for a really good reason too, theres often a conflict of interest and corruption. Even if there would be a few who could use those powers with abuse, but it's something that will most likely never happen.

[Bittermen]

my name was rumblepit on global agenda, i played with vanquish for a long time. there were hackers in global agenda, but the game had such a low pop and such a tight community that they never became a problem.league of legends ,,, lol what kind of hacks could you use in that game anyway???????????



f2p is awesome and the future of gaming??????????

hers some info for your" f2p is awesome". swtor had 750,000 players in beta on stress test weekend. 1.5 million sub in the first 2 weeks of release. next month they should be close to 2 million, and it will continue to grow.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
this is what soe wants .... but they dont think they can pull it off so they are
going to play it safe with the f2p model.



they can have the best anti hack in the world. but will will stop the script kiddies from making new accounts.


MARK MY WORDS..... THIS WILL MAKE OR BREAK THIS GAME.

Comparing Planetside to Star Wars?

Its got like 30 years on Planetside.

[Rumblepit]

Comparing Planetside to Star Wars?

Its got like 30 years on Planetside.


not the name star wars, the game... the product they put out. it was polished,plenty of content, good graphics, good pvp/combat,more dialog then every episode of the Sopranos combined,and its gonna make them allot of money because its a good game. . so yes i compare it to swtor ....
they do this right, market it correctly, you will prob see 1million players at launch.

but if they want to go with the f2d option you will never ever see them break 300k players.

[Rumblepit]

Sadly, majority of the community will be against giving any kick/ban powers to non-hired people.

Probably for a really good reason too, theres often a conflict of interest and corruption. Even if there would be a few who could use those powers with abuse, but it's something that will most likely never happen.
this is true, they will not release any admin tools to the public..... admin tools are hacks in a since . the worst kinds. and they dont want them getting out there.

[Hobitt]

Maybe a very easy to use report function that would instantly notify admins but it must be easy to use!

[Crator]

but if they want to go with the f2d option you will never ever see them break 300k players.

Yes, you are probably correct in saying that... Wait, I think I read that wrong, if they allow free-to-download they won't get over 300K subs? That's not right... Look at the stats they got for DCUO when it went F2P.

Reports of SOE gaining 1000 million subscribers after going F2P.

DC Universe Online Attracts 1 Million New Players Following Free-to-Play Transition (http://www.tentonhammer.com/dcuo/news/dcuo-attracts-1-million-new-players-following-free-to-play-transition)

John Smedley gives interesting tweets on DC Universe Online (http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/11/21/john-smedley-gives-interesting-tweets-on-dc-universe-online/)

While I was searching about F2P or Freemium business models I found this nice article: The Freemium Business Model and Viral Product Management (http://www.pragmaticmarketing.com/publications/magazine/7/4/vol7iss4.pdf)

Reports of Star Wars: The Old Republic being the last of it's kind, because it isn't F2P: Star Wars: The Old Republic - The End of an Era? (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-12-15-star-wars-the-old-republic-the-end-of-an-era-preview)

[Rumblepit]

lol i read that one, and another that said the sub based games are not a thing of the past lol and swtor will prove it.

i did a bit of research tonight and read over what smedly hinted at with this f2p model http://news.17173.com/content/2011-09-08/20110908082808374,1.shtml. i researched eq2's f2p model which was soe's first attempt at f2p. also looked into what league of legends uses as their f2p model, which he referred to when he talked about ps2.

there are many types and hybrids of the f2p model. not all f2p games are f2d.some you have to buy the game then its free to play, brink , global agenda,team fortress...... some are f2p and f2d, warrock , combat arms, crossfire. some are pay to compete, some are pay to win, some are pay for flair, and from what ive seen 90% never sell a box game, just digital downloads.

what dose this mean? this is just a theory from what i gather from his interview. but ps2 will be p2d and f2p, with a item shop that has flair and weapons, but nothing will be in the shop that you cant get in game.

[Raymac]

what dose this mean? this is just a theory from what i gather from his interview. but ps2 will be p2d and f2p, with a item shop that has flair and weapons, but nothing will be in the shop that you cant get in game.

My guess is that PS2 will be extremely similar to DCUO which is free to download and different payment options. The good thing that PS2 has going for it is that it is being designed as f2p from the start instead of having it taked on after the fact.

If your goal is to try to get SOE to change their mind and make PS2 a subscription game...you seem intelligent enough to know how well that will work.

There are pros and cons to it, for sure. So lets hope SOE puts enough resources into policing the cheaters so the rest of us can enjoy this beautiful looking game that the devs are putting so much effort and passion into.

[fuzzehthehydra]

farmville????? rofl ...... i just wont elaborate on this game at all.
team fortress was not f2p when it was released. they went that direction when numbers were low.

as for ip and hardware banns . well a ip ban will keep a hacker out for 5 mins.
hardware bans???? not sure if any hack prevention programs even use this tech. if they did i would no about it, heck we all would .

i gather from your post that you have never played a f2p game.

Regardless of your opinions of how good a game Farmville and it's kin is, my point was that it has generated a large amount of money in a relatively short period of time. Companies, if offered a choice between a great gaming experience or one that will make a lot of money, will always go for the cash.

You're right about TF2 in the sense that it was not originally a F2P game, but after it went in that direction player numbers picked up considerably, which shows that it can generate plenty of interest.

As a couple of posters confirmed earlier, hardware bans do indeed exist, even if they aren't particularly widespread for whatever reason. So yeah, obviously you don't know quite as much as you thought you did.

And, uh, no, I have played several F2P games in my time, though I really don't understand what that has to do with the debate.

[Coreldan]

Maybe a very easy to use report function that would instantly notify admins but it must be easy to use!

They had this in original PS but it was taken out cos they couldn't handle the amount of reports.

Same goes for many other games. To once again pull APB into this, they opened this "Police Blotter" thread on their forums, where people could report cheaters if they had video proof (normally you werent allowed to accuse people of cheating on the forums). The thread was so "popular" that they even had to close that down, cos they didnt have the manpower to investigate all the reports. Much less if it was easy to just press "Report" and write "Player X is cheating".

[SKYeXile]

PS2 cant compete as a B2P game, it needs ongoing income to support its servers. it however cant operate successfully as a P2P game, people(FPS players), soes target audience for PS2) dont get that that it costs money to run servers. F2P is really the only option for PS2...dont even get started on B2P with a cash shop...SOE and everybody else have proved that its more profitable to just go completely F2P.

You can bet SOE are going to be allover hacking and it effecting planetside, its been a thorn in their side for like 6 months or something now.



not the name star wars, the game... the product they put out. it was polished,plenty of content, good graphics, good pvp/combat,more dialog then every episode of the Sopranos combined,and its gonna make them allot of money because its a good game. . so yes i compare it to swtor ....
they do this right, market it correctly, you will prob see 1million players at launch.

but if they want to go with the f2d option you will never ever see them break 300k players.


You cant compare star wars and PS2, they're 2 totally different games with 2 different target audiences, P2P has been tried with planetside, it does not work, people want something more for their $15 a month then fighting the same people over the same 5 base designs than planetside offers.

as for the bold...??? are you high, every time a game goes f2p its population explodes, SOE had to open up heaps more servers for DCUO online when it went F2P, as did every other game that wasnt run by asswipes. Free realms had over 1m players at its release, its budget is a a mear drop in the sea to the amount of money EA has thrown at SWTOR. but let me get this right...what you're saying is basicly people would rather pay to have biowares cock jammed down their throat all while EA complete the Eiffel tower with a rear entrance? you gotta be high son...i would give that shit a taste if it was free, but im seriously not paying to be double teamed by those poo pushers.

also if it was free to play....everybody in australia would be playing it...that would make-up your 300k...cant play it with no download link and no official release bro.


can we seriously start screening these people before they signup...really?

and wtf are you people going on about? free to download games?

its either buy to play (B2P) or its free to play(F2P) f2p = you download and play it for free...there is no fucking fee to download it...or it would not be free to play. WTF, retards.

SGTMad...if you're reading this, please hit me for wasting my time arguing with the mouth breathers.

[Xyntech]

PS2 cant compete as a B2P game, it needs ongoing income to support its servers. it however cant operate successfully as a P2P game, people(FPS players), soes target audience for PS2) dont get that that it costs money to run servers. F2P is really the only option for PS2...dont even get started on B2P with a cash shop...SOE and everybody else have proved that its more profitable to just go completely F2P.

You can bet SOE are going to be allover hacking and it effecting planetside, its been a thorn in their side for like 6 months or something now.






You cant compare star wars and PS2, they're 2 totally different games with 2 different target audiences, P2P has been tried with planetside, it does not work, people want something more for their $15 a month then fighting the same people over the same 5 base designs than planetside offers.

as for the bold...??? are you high, every time a game goes f2p its population explodes, SOE had to open up heaps more servers for DCUO online when it went F2P, as did every other game that wasnt run by asswipes. Free realms had over 1m players at its release, its budget is a a mear drop in the sea to the amount of money EA has thrown at SWTOR. but let me get this right...what you're saying is basicly people would rather pay to have biowares cock jammed down their throat all while EA complete the Eiffel tower with a rear entrance? you gotta be high son...i would give that shit a taste if it was free, but im seriously not paying to be double teamed by those poo pushers.

also if it was free to play....everybody in australia would be playing it...that would make-up your 300k...cant play it with no download link and no official release bro.


can we seriously start screening these people before they signup...really?

and wtf are you people going on about? free to download games?

its either buy to play (B2P) or its free to play(F2P) f2p = you download and play it for free...there is no fucking fee to download it...or it would not be free to play. WTF, retards.

SGTMad...if you're reading this, please hit me for wasting my time arguing with the mouth breathers.

Can I take a swing at you if he doesn't show up? :D

Pretty much sums up the discussion though.

The most important part of this whole thing is that this is a business decision by SOE. Good or bad, we're going to have to make the best of it, because they certainly aren't going to change their minds. So if you are absolutely positive that this will ruin the game, give up all hope now and look elsewhere, because this is the business model they will use. Maybe check back in once the game launches and see if it's as bad as you thought or not. On the other hand, if you think there is any sliver of a hope that the game won't be a disaster with F2P, stop worrying about it and focus on the stuff that actually may get changed.

I think there is a lot more than a sliver of hope, so I'm not worrying about F2P at all. If it ruins the game, I'll be pissed, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it until the game goes public release. There are a lot of more relevant topics at hand. I'm not the biggest fan of any kind of doomsday mentalities, but at least talking doomsday about something like solo driven MBT's is a discussion that could actually have a real, and potentially valuable, impact on the game.

[Crator]

and wtf are you people going on about? free to download games?

its either buy to play (B2P) or its free to play(F2P) f2p = you download and play it for free...there is no fucking fee to download it...or it would not be free to play. WTF, retards.

SGTMad...if you're reading this, please hit me for wasting my time arguing with the mouth breathers.

There's no reason not to discuss the topic. At least this one is civil. There used to be hardcore flaming going on over this topic a couple years ago...

[SgtMAD]

LOL Sky,I hear ya,I start reading these threads and get fired up,start composing this scathing reply and then remember that 99% of the ppl posting here never played the same game that we did for 8 years.

I read the crazy misconceptions coming from ppl that don't think squads matter or that leadership is needed,that BFRs should still be in the game,shit there is so much of it that I can't recall it all.

you are basically talking to zerg here and you and i know what kind of results that will get ya.

consider yourself slapped,no call it bitch slapped(I heard you FC guys like that better ;) )

[Rumblepit]

PS2 cant compete as a B2P game, it needs ongoing income to support its servers. it however cant operate successfully as a P2P game, people(FPS players), soes target audience for PS2) dont get that that it costs money to run servers. F2P is really the only option for PS2...dont even get started on B2P with a cash shop...SOE and everybody else have proved that its more profitable to just go completely F2P.

You can bet SOE are going to be allover hacking and it effecting planetside, its been a thorn in their side for like 6 months or something now.






You cant compare star wars and PS2, they're 2 totally different games with 2 different target audiences, P2P has been tried with planetside, it does not work, people want something more for their $15 a month then fighting the same people over the same 5 base designs than planetside offers.

as for the bold...??? are you high, every time a game goes f2p its population explodes, SOE had to open up heaps more servers for DCUO online when it went F2P, as did every other game that wasnt run by asswipes. Free realms had over 1m players at its release, its budget is a a mear drop in the sea to the amount of money EA has thrown at SWTOR. but let me get this right...what you're saying is basicly people would rather pay to have biowares cock jammed down their throat all while EA complete the Eiffel tower with a rear entrance? you gotta be high son...i would give that shit a taste if it was free, but im seriously not paying to be double teamed by those poo pushers.

also if it was free to play....everybody in australia would be playing it...that would make-up your 300k...cant play it with no download link and no official release bro.


can we seriously start screening these people before they signup...really?

and wtf are you people going on about? free to download games?

its either buy to play (B2P) or its free to play(F2P) f2p = you download and play it for free...there is no fucking fee to download it...or it would not be free to play. WTF, retards.

SGTMad...if you're reading this, please hit me for wasting my time arguing with the mouth breathers.


lol boy im gonna pick you apart lol.... first and foremost you know just as much about this as everyone else in this thread. which is nothing.... this is all speculation, nothing has been confirmed..... we dont know if its free to download and free to play, or if its pay to download , and free to play. BOTH ARE F2P MODELS..................

you said its all about the money, well to you think if soe makes this game free to download they are going to hire the extra staff they will need to policy the servers???????? because if they make it free to download they are to get 50% more hackers then they would have if the game had a box price.



soe will be all over the hacking issues im sure...... but riddle me this.... can you name a game that was released as free to download, free to play,fps where the admins have got a handle on their hackers? if you can name one ill give you a xmas kiss on your browneye lol.

i know swtor is not a fps , its a mmorpg, the reason i compare the 2 is in this thread. so take your time that you dont wont to waste on us mouth breathers
read this thread and you will see why i compared the 2.

as for am i high ???? yes all the time. where i live its legal :groovy: cheers.
when a dying goes free to play they do pick up population, but at what cost?
its at the cost of the game quality. meaning 50% of the people you just picked up from f2p are hacking and they will drive away more players or make legit players mad enough to start hacking aswell. community crumbles, hackusation fly, admins are hated.... go read team fortress 2 forums to see what im talking about.


aslo in this thread it states , and this is fact,,, there a few f2p models.....
free to download and free to play, or pay to download and free to play. both are free to play models. 1 comes with 80% more hackers then the other...

if people were screened before posting i would have never seen your post, nore would i have been able to pick it apart. retards???? hmmm well that just shows us all how smart you really are.

[Rumblepit]

[QUOTE=HtSgtMAD;618570]LOL Sky,I hear ya,I start reading these threads and get fired up,start composing this scathing reply and then remember that 99% of the ppl posting here never played the same game that we did for 8 years.

I read the crazy misconceptions coming from ppl that don't think squads matter or that leadership is needed,that BFRs should still be in the game,shit there is so much of it that I can't recall it all.

you are basically talking to zerg here and you and i know what kind of results that will get ya.

consider yourself slapped,no call it bitch slapped(I heard you FC guys like that better ;) )[/QUOTE

in the past 8 years have you ever played a f2d f2p fps game? or just planetside?if you did you would understand the concern.


in fact if anyone wants to see the difference between the 2 f2p models please just pm me. i have a war rock account,which is f2d and f2p and i have a brink account which is p2d and f2p. ill give you all my info just login and play.

[Coreldan]

It is not free to play if it costs to play. It is as simple as that.

That is like argueing that apple is orange.

[Rumblepit]

It is not free to play if it costs to play. It is as simple as that.

That is like argueing that apple is orange.


brink is a free to play game i had to buy off steam. there are a few free to play models lol.
it comes down to not paying a sub, you dont pay a sub then its free to play, sometime they sell the games sometimes they dont , but you will never have to sub, hints free to play

[Coreldan]

Then the game wasn't free to play if you had to pay to play.

It really is that simple. You have good points, but you do realize that your whole argument is a huge logical fallacy?

It is not free if it costs :D That is a whole different payment model. If Brink was free to play, why don't they advertise it as such? Cos it isn't a free2play game and to claim it is would be false marketing.

It really has nothing to do with a sub. A free to play game has no initial cost whatsoever.

I'm done argueing about this, if you can't see how stupid it is to claim that a game that you have to pay for is free-to-play, there really is no point in carrying on for me.

[Rumblepit]

Then the game wasn't free to play if you had to pay to play.

It really is that simple. You have good points, but you do realize that your whole argument is a huge logical fallacy?

It is not free if it costs :D That is a whole different payment model. If Brink was free to play, why don't they advertise it as such? Cos it isn't a free2play game and to claim it is would be false marketing.



ok so all these games online that say they are free to play, but you have to buy the game. are not free to play models?


you should tell them that...... its a f2p model ......

[Crator]

It is true, by definition that Free-to-Play (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play) gives the option to play the game without paying any money. SOE does this with DCUO but also offers a Freemium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemium)model alongside it. I'm not certain if SOE is going to use a hybrid model like this for PS2 but guessing they will.

[Coreldan]

I personally havn't ran into a single game that claims to be f2p but requires you to buy it. I don't try that many new games, though, but that is still unheard of for me. And to me, that is totally false marketing if such games exist. That is an all-out lie.

But perhaps we get back on topic, the topic itself is interesting, these semantics arn't.

I'd guess the payment model will be much like DCUO, perhaps just even better cos PS2 will be directly be build upon F2P model. I'd guess tiered "premiums" and cash shop.

[Rumblepit]

It is true, by definition that Free-to-Play (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play) gives the option to play the game without paying any money. SOE does this with DCUO but also offers a Freemium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemium)model alongside it. I'm not certain if SOE is going to use a hybrid model like this for PS2 but guessing they will.
i was looking into the f2p hybrid model, and i could see them going this direction.

[acosmo]

how does LoL work? thats how ps2 will most probably work.

[Alaska]

Quoted from a post on LOL's forum.

"The game itself is free, but players can spend either points earned through the game (IP) or points purchased with real money (Riot Points ? RP) to acquire new champions or new skins for their champions. While the new skins are merely an aesthetic, unlocking a new champion will allow you to play the game differently than before. This has created perhaps the perfect use of DLC, where players do not have to spend money to enjoy the game, however the option is available to purchase new champions (that you may prefer or wish to play) faster."

=]]

[Coreldan]

To take a more example, APB is a pretty good example of what we might see in PS2:

Game is F2P and has a cash shop. The game itself is known for its pretty much unrivaled customization in any action online game (Second Life beats that, sure, but isnt an action game :D). The cash shop sells clothing items that can't be obtained through other means, these are merely aesthetic.

They also sell weapons that are not baseline more powerful than their "free" counterparts. They are often slightly different in mechanics or looks. For example, the games "free" submachine gun is basically a MP5 kurz. In the cash shop you can buy the same weapon, but it has a stock, scope and a silencer on it. It looks badass which already makes many people buy it. The silencer in it has a few benefits in-game (mainly that its silent lol), but you cant modify the cash shop weapons, so the free submachine gun can be modded to kill faster than this cash shop version. Other examples are a sniper you can sprint with and shoot out of a car window (the baseline sniper can't do this), but it does considerably less damage. Overall the weapons have incentives to buy unless you are a cheapskate, but they arnt pay2win.

They also sell "3-slot weapons", which are the same as you can obtain in game, but buying them basically allows you to skip dozens to hundreds of hours of "grind". The normal weapons in game are leased for 10 days, so they also sell the "special cash shop weapons" as well as the baseline weapons for permanent ownership for real money.

They also sell body kits for cars as the car customization is also pretty big thing in the game. They also sometimes sell pre-made and pre-slotted cars, but these arnt that big of a sales article.

Then, theres also a premium that will give you more money rewards and more standing (see it as experience), it also lets you pass queues if the servers are full, it halves the cooldown on activatable character mods (only very few and dont have a direct combat advantage, almost a vanity), you are allowed to customize your character and car much further than a free user. Active premium gets you a 20% discount on all cash shop items as well.

They also sell extra character slots. Every account gets 2 by default.

There are always people who will blame their loss on the cash shop weapons, but the truth is they would've had their ass handed to them by the same player with the baseline weapons all the same.


APBs cash shop has quite steep prices on many of the things, but Gamersfirst keeps saying they have the statistics to show it creates more revenue to use those prices than use the logic of "sell for cheap, get way more customers" so I guess I will just believe em, what do I have on their statistics? They are in it for the money, I'm sure they do what creates the most revenue.

For PS2 I expect much the same, but PS2 has much less focus on customization and I'm fairly sure we will see tiered premiums which is a nice thing. Also since PS2 will actually have "physically" customizable weapons, I'm sure some of those tacticool things will be sold in the cash shop as well.

[SKYeXile]

brink is a free to play game i had to buy off steam. there are a few free to play models lol.

http://hotnerdgirl.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/double-facepalm1.jpg

[Nephilimuk]

This is one big troll threadnaught right?

[SKYeXile]

This is one big troll threadnaught right?

Gotta be, i feel more stupid every time i click into it.

[Rumblepit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play here is a link you kids can read , so you can understand what were talking about.

[SKYeXile]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play here is a link you kids can read , so you can understand what were talking about.

nobody gets what you're talking about, you're saying a game that you pay for is free to play...

Probably time to accept you're wrong.

[Dreamcast]

It should.


If I remember correctly weren't they talking about League of Legends type model which is very successful BTW...Basically is a free game and they make their money of people buying skins and ip or xp boost but the game never feels unfair at all.



Free to play done right would be wonderfull for Planetside.


I know there is the whole issue with cheaters but I believe the developers can deal with that pretty well...I mean there will always be cheaters but thats in every game.

[Rumblepit]

It should.


If I remember correctly weren't they talking about League of Legends type model which is very successful BTW...Basically is a free game and they make their money of people buying skins and ip or xp boost but the game never feels unfair at all.



Free to play done right would be wonderfull for Planetside.


I know there is the whole issue with cheaters but I believe the developers can deal with that pretty well...I mean there will always be cheaters but thats in every game.


this is the debate. with this f2p model you will see alot more hackers then the others, because they can just make new account after being banned. they would have to buy the digital download after being banned to play again with the other f2p model .

[Rumblepit]

nobody gets what you're talking about, you're saying a game that you pay for is free to play...

Probably time to accept you're wrong.




WOW DUDE ARE YOU SOFT????????????????


OK ILL LAY IT OUT FOR YOU IN STUPID PEOPLE TERMS. GAMES YOU SUBSCRIBE TO FALL UNDER A SUBSCRIPTION BUSINESS MODEL.

EVERY OTHER ONLINE GAME THAT YOU DONT HAVE TO PAY A SUBSCRIPTION FOR FALLS UNDER THE FREE TO PLAY BUSINESS MODEL.

WEATHER YOU PAY A BOX PRICE DOSE NOT MATTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AS LONG AS YOU DONT PAY A MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION FEE ITS FREE TO PLAY.

IM SORRY I CANT DRAW A PICTURE FOR YOU TOO. BUT IF YOU CANT COMPREHEND THIS THEN MAYBE YOU SHOULD WAIT UNTIL YOUR IQ IMPROVES TO POST BACK HERE.

[Coreldan]

Most of us feel that you have hard time to comprehend that if you must pay for something, it aint free.

[SgtMAD]

LOL, he is screamin' at ya now, Sky

somehow, he thinks buying something makes it free and you are too stupid to see that.

[Rumblepit]

wow some young ones on here . free to play is the name of a business model. educate yourself, read up on them. there are many versions of said model, all include microtransactions. some are free to download ,some are not, some are pay to win,pay to compete, pay for flair, some are hybrid with subscriptions. no need to troll a thread and derail it,. if you dont get it then dont post please.

[SgtMAD]

it doesn't matter how old I am,if I pay for something then it isn't free, its a simple concept that is easy to grasp.

your failure to do so reveals more about your ignorance and age than mine.

[SKYeXile]

LOL, he is screamin' at ya now, Sky

somehow, he thinks buying something makes it free and you are too stupid to see that.

LOL, loving the irony.

you should be a publisher Rumblepit...

New concept... Free' interface network gaming - Download, Interface, Click, Konnect. you're free to download and p(l)ay the game whenever you like, you just need to p(l)ay for the privilege to download the game.

Wait...what?

[SgtMAD]

as i sit here grinning about this crap, I am starting to think I have found my next MarkHamilton

[ShockFC]

as i sit here grinning about this crap, I am starting to think I have found my next MarkHamilton

I'm reading other stuff he posts, and I daresay I think you have.

[Bravix]

Wait, I was under the understanding that Guild Wars was b2p, but I guess I was wrong. Its obviously f2p


*cough cough* http://mmohuts.com/editorials/buy-to-play-vs-free-to-play *nudge nudge*

[Rumblepit]

thats a good read. 500 mill a year is allot of money. f2p dose very well with the mmorpgs because they are not skill based games .therefor they get very little hackers, not many hacks out there that can help you in a mmo. when its implemented on a skill based game/fps, things change. the whole game is based on skill , and hacks are made to help those noobs who cant compete.and when they are caught and banned they come right back and do it again. this is why i am worried. there is know way to keep the hackers out.

[ShockFC]

thats a good read. 500 mill a year is allot of money. f2p dose very well with the mmorpgs because they are not skill based games .therefor they get very little hackers, not many hacks out there that can help you in a mmo. when its implemented on a skill based game/fps, things change. the whole game is based on skill , and hacks are made to help those noobs who cant compete.and when they are caught and banned they come right back and do it again. this is why i am worried. there is know way to keep the hackers out.

Oh dear... This guy

[Effective]

If you have to buy the game, that is not free to play. You had to pay for, that is the exact opposite of FREE.

[Sifer2]

If you have to buy the game, that is not free to play. You had to pay for, that is the exact opposite of FREE.


Well MMO's typically have subs. So Free subscription could classify as F2P as well IMO.

Which to me is really the model Planetside 2 should be going with. Charge standard FPS price for the box. Free to play after that with server operation costs payed for by the cosmetics shop.

This totally Free model I think will fail. Hackers will be part of what brings it down if they go with it. The other half will be that cosmetics sales alone wont be able to deliver the profit margin they expect. And they will have to start selling power which will ruin a competitive game.

[SKYeXile]

Well MMO's typically have subs. So Free subscription could classify as F2P as well IMO.

Which to me is really the model Planetside 2 should be going with. Charge standard FPS price for the box. Free to play after that with server operation costs payed for by the cosmetics shop.

This totally Free model I think will fail. Hackers will be part of what brings it down if they go with it. The other half will be that cosmetics sales alone wont be able to deliver the profit margin they expect. And they will have to start selling power which will ruin a competitive game.

This isn't their first F2P BBQ, have some faith.

[ThGlump]

I have more faith in that soe will ignore hackers if they buy something from the store than they will try to get rid of them.

But still i hope (im silly i know) that if I (we) will scream loud enough they could change f2p to b2p (would like p2p but thats far of).

[Bravix]

thats a good read. 500 mill a year is allot of money. f2p dose very well with the mmorpgs because they are not skill based games .therefor they get very little hackers, not many hacks out there that can help you in a mmo. when its implemented on a skill based game/fps, things change. the whole game is based on skill , and hacks are made to help those noobs who cant compete.and when they are caught and banned they come right back and do it again. this is why i am worried. there is know way to keep the hackers out.

You be trollin', I can't seriously believe that someone with the intelligence to type in a URL could have missed the entire point of that.

[Rumblepit]

getting way off topic again, the point of this thread is to confirm weather or not the game will be free to download. can any of you confirm this?people f2p is a model type,,,, it could be called "shet on skyexile to play" but this dose not mean we all have to shet on sky to play it. its the name of a business model.

like i said there are few types of f2p models, hybrids with pay and free to play using mircotransactions, or pay to download free to play using microtansactions, or free to play free to download using microtransactions.

one of these models comes with 90% more hackers then the others.

[Hamma]

Nobody can confirm it for sure - but considering that the pre-order disappeared off sites like Gamestop a week or two ago I'd think it is pretty safe to assume it will be free to download with a valid station account.

All of this speculation and fuzzy math about hackers is far to focused on. SOE knows as well as everyone in this thread that Hackers are the bane of online gaming. If they are smart they will have tons of systems in place to deal with these issues.

They already know their pricing model I'm sure and are planning their policies around that.

[SgtMAD]

Nobody can confirm it for sure - but considering that the pre-order disappeared off sites like Gamestop a week or two ago I'd think it is pretty safe to assume it will be free to download with a valid station account.

All of this speculation and fuzzy math about hackers is far to focused on. SOE knows as well as everyone in this thread that Hackers are the bane of online gaming. If they are smart they will have tons of systems in place to deal with these issues.

They already know their pricing model I'm sure and are planning their policies around that.

plz don't lock this thread, it has proved to be a very entertaining read so far,the guy won't give up

[Nephilimuk]

I think it is a Derek Smart alt... its the only logical explanation or possible line of defense

[Rumblepit]

plz don't lock this thread, it has proved to be a very entertaining read so far,the guy won't give up

your quite the asshat yourself.

they did pull the game , i know. dosnt mean their wont be digital download . why waste the money and man power to make a game and send it all over the world, when you can sell it online and save a tone.

i would really hate to see this game be free to download. i would like to think they are leaning toward a hybrid f2p model. if not ???? well we all know what the outcome will be.

the problem with many different hack prevention programs, and other defenses is they all cost money. fp2 revolves around making money. im sure they have a budget just for the hacker issue , but if they cant keep them out , then the community suffers.

[Hamma]

No.. actually we don't know what the outcome will be.

[SgtMAD]

LOL, I have been divorced twice, I have been called far worst than "asshat" in court by a lawyer that I ended up paying for in the end so if you want to try to get under my skin you better leave that weak sauce shit at home.

never the less none of this changes the fact that if you pay for something is it not considered free.

I haven't called you any names or really flamed you at all, in fact i just keep making the point and you cannot come up with a decent enough argument to convince anyone else that you are correct.

[Crator]

i would really hate to see this game be free to download. i would like to think they are leaning toward a hybrid f2p model. if not ???? well we all know what the outcome will be.

We know the potential of what the outcome could be... I'm going to give SOE the benefit of the doubt on this one for now.... I'm sure we will all have a field day if major game breaking hacks like the ones we saw when PS1 had the Reserves program emerge....

[Rumblepit]

i know the older f2p fps games are hard to compare to the new ones. the way they were coded and designed years ago made it very easy for the script kiddies to run wild.there will always be hackers in games, some more then others, all we can do is make their life hell....

owning hackers Warrock Hacker OWNAGE - YouTube

just in chase your wondering, it only took 2 days to get the footage. hackers EVERYWHERE.

[Rumblepit]

LOL, I have been divorced twice, I have been called far worst than "asshat" in court by a lawyer that I ended up paying for in the end so if you want to try to get under my skin you better leave that weak sauce shit at home.

never the less none of this changes the fact that if you pay for something is it not considered free.

I haven't called you any names or really flamed you at all, in fact i just keep making the point and you cannot come up with a decent enough argument to convince anyone else that you are correct.

i dont need too, im right.... why have a argument with a person who is clueless.

Even now, Microsoft is rumored to be entering the F2P space. According to several articles (cited at the end), Microsoft is considering two types of F2P games. The first types are microtransaction games, and the second types are freemium games whose full content are accessed to paying customers. Supposedly, the new Xbox 360 OS update is supposed to lay the foundation to allow microtransactions with Microsoft Points through game menus and shops. I figured this was going to be implemented when Nexon’s Dungeon Fighter (another F2P game) was announced for 360, but apparently that is not case. We’ll just have to wait and see.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/231079/rumor_freetoplay_coming_to_xbox_360.html

just a article on a couple of the different types of popular f2p models.

like i said before , its just the name of the business model.

[Xyntech]

i dont need too, im right.... why have a argument with a person who is clueless.

Even now, Microsoft is rumored to be entering the F2P space. According to several articles (cited at the end), Microsoft is considering two types of F2P games. The first types are microtransaction games, and the second types are freemium games whose full content are accessed to paying customers. Supposedly, the new Xbox 360 OS update is supposed to lay the foundation to allow microtransactions with Microsoft Points through game menus and shops. I figured this was going to be implemented when Nexon’s Dungeon Fighter (another F2P game) was announced for 360, but apparently that is not case. We’ll just have to wait and see.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/231079/rumor_freetoplay_coming_to_xbox_360.html

just a article on a couple of the different types of popular f2p models.

like i said before , its just the name of the business model.

Neither of those charge money at any stage to start playing. Fremium only requires money past a certain point, with some F2P games having the option to bypass paying anything if you're willing to grind a lot.

Buy to play is what most FPSs are. B2P is not F2P.

B2P = box price and no subscription. Most games are B2P so it's not a common term. Just invented to distinguish from P2P and F2P.
P2P = subscription, usually with a box price on top of it, but not always. Most MMO's obviously used to fall into this category.
F2P = start playing the game without spending a single solitary penny. Vanity items may cost money (cash shops), or sections of the game may require a subscription fee (freemium), but a player can keep playing at least some part of the game forever, without paying anything.

[SgtMAD]

and i thought this thread was going to die off,the guy writes whole essays yet still can't refute the basic principle that if you pay for something it isn't free.

it is funny thinking about how much effort and research he is putting into these walls of text he keep posting,finding that new link that is going to "show those ppl that I am right"

when you go shopping and once you have selected whatever it is you are there to buy, walk up to the clerk and pay for it,do you thank them for letting you use that for free?

because if it is a piece of clothing or any number of other things for sale these days,once you pay for it you can wear it or use as much as you like,kind of like if you paid for PS2 and then got to play it for free.

so by definition(yours) everything is free if it doesn't come with a monthly charge after purchase,sounds pretty stupid when you type it out like that,doesn't it?

[Rumblepit]

Neither of those charge money at any stage to start playing. Fremium only requires money past a certain point, with some F2P games having the option to bypass paying anything if you're willing to grind a lot.

Buy to play is what most FPSs are. B2P is not F2P.

B2P = box price and no subscription. Most games are B2P so it's not a common term. Just invented to distinguish from P2P and F2P.
P2P = subscription, usually with a box price on top of it, but not always. Most MMO's obviously used to fall into this category.
F2P = start playing the game without spending a single solitary penny. Vanity items may cost money (cash shops), or sections of the game may require a subscription fee (freemium), but a player can keep playing at least some part of the game forever, without paying anything.

lol i didnt write the article... tell them that. they can call this one the free to trial model.it falls under the f2p model because you can download an play it for free. but if you want to play the full game you must pay... its a f2p hybrid.

[Rumblepit]

and i thought this thread was going to die off,the guy writes whole essays yet still can't refute the basic principle that if you pay for something it isn't free.

it is funny thinking about how much effort and research he is putting into these walls of text he keep posting,finding that new link that is going to "show those ppl that I am right"

when you go shopping and once you have selected whatever it is you are there to buy, walk up to the clerk and pay for it,do you thank them for letting you use that for free?

because if it is a piece of clothing or any number of other things for sale these days,once you pay for it you can wear it or use as much as you like,kind of like if you paid for PS2 and then got to play it for free.

so by definition(yours) everything is free if it doesn't come with a monthly charge after purchase,sounds pretty stupid when you type it out like that,doesn't it?

dont you have to be in divorce court or something?

[Xyntech]

lol i didnt write the article... tell them that. they can call this one the free to trial model.it falls under the f2p model because you can download an play it for free. but if you want to play the full game you must pay... its a f2p hybrid.

Right... and I'm failing to see your point in regards to the PS2 discussion.

You download the game... free. You play the game... free. Potentially, in some games, you upgrade to more content at a cost. That's F2P.

To make your case, you need an example of a F2P game where you first have to pay money to download/acquire the game, and then you can play it for free from then on. Because isn't your whole argument that Planetside 2 may still have a cost to purchase, while being subscription free afterwards? That isn't F2P. You won't find an example, because that isn't what's called F2P. That has never been called F2P, at least not in any publicly accepted way.

If SOE intends to release Planetside 2 with an initial purchase cost, they'll have to start marketing it as something other than F2P, because F2P = you can start playing the game without ever paying money.

Isn't that your concern? That hackers will be able to get into the game and start cheating it up without ever paying anything? How does a freemium tier affect that? Premium players would still be subject to the hacking of those free tier players.

Now the question of whether hacking will be an all pervasive problem, or a contained nuisance, is another topic entirely, but this discussion is about PS2 being free to download or not. If SOE is marketing the game as F2P, and if SOE has any idea what F2P means to the gaming world at large, there won't be any mandatory cost involved in downloading or playing the game.

[Hamma]

dont you have to be in divorce court or something?

The personal attacks between you two have to stop or I will begin issuing infractions.

I believe this is the point where we "Agree to Disagree"

[SgtMAD]

I haven't called this guy anything and i haven't attacked him personally, its not my fault he can't see the folly of his argument.

if these weak ass attacks is all he can come up with then I am fine with letting this run its course:lol:

[Rumblepit]

I haven't called this guy anything and i haven't attacked him personally, its not my fault he can't see the folly of his argument.

if these weal ass attacks is all he can come up with then I am fine with letting this run its course:lol:
there is know folly in my argument, there never was.f2p hybrid

SOE plans to include a subscription model for those who fancy access to what Matt calls ‘premium features’, but I’m already sold on the idea of sticking with my chosen vehicle for the long haul. I relied on my Reaver in PlanetSide, and grew into the cockpit until it became a part of me. I was unhappy with my feet on the ground in Auraxis. The idea of plugging months’ worth of advancement into my Reaver, earning cannons and rockets and countermeasures and targeting systems (and all the things I wished I could tinker with back in 2003), is a prospect that thrills me like little else in gaming. Having known PlanetSide, Matt understands me. Now I know PlanetSide 2, I think you’ll understand my excitement too.

[SgtMAD]

so the point you are trying to make is that there will be a sub if you want to pay for it.

the option to pay a sub instead of having to buy things ad hoc out of the cash shop doesn't change the fact that if we are forced to buy the box then the game isn't F2P.

I am not required to buy anything out of the cash shop nor am I required to pay any sub to play,those are options left to the individual player and if I am not required to buy a copy of the game to play then it is F2P

[Tasorin]

Three Words: All Points Bulletin

If want to know what utter failure in a F2P model looks like, look no further.

Frankly SOE's track record sucks.

They have managed to make epic failures in PlanetSide 1, Star Wars Galaxies, and Everquest 2. Until SOE can show that they have their house in order, can deliver a AAA Title that doesn't utterly stink at launch, and manage to support a AAA title for more then 6 months before they completely bork the game into oblivion, then I will have some restored faith in them.

Until them, I am left wondering if I am going to get on another SOE train wreck or not.

[Coreldan]

I think APB has a fantastic F2P model for the most parts, thanks to how well the game suits the model even if it wasnt designed as such.

No pay2win, money is made out of cosmetics or different/unique weapons (that arnt better than their non-paying counterparts). The game is all about customization of your character and car that's how they make a pretty sweet buck without implementing pay2win.

The only complaint I have about it is prices of some things that are quite crazy.

What do you find so bad about APBs F2P model?

[Hamma]

I think SOE's track record with recent F2P experiments have been rather successful.

[RadarX]

It might honestly be best to wait and hear more about the business model before deciding how effective it'll be. DC Universe Online and EverQuest 2 for example have completely different models that are both proving to be effective. There is of course the tiered access but DCUO relies mainly on cosmetic and convenience items (name change, power respec, etc..) whereas EQ2 is heavily mounts, experience potions, house items, etc...

And that isn't to say PlanetSide 2 will be like either. They are looking at every working model right now and seeing what will provide players value for their purchases while not removing the fun.

[Tasorin]

Come on now. EQ2 is not a model of success. While it may generate profits for a client that has long since been amortized and/or payed off, in no way, shape or fashion was EQ2 a success.

Yes I played EQ2 in beta and launch when I actually had time to devote to games. Yes I played in one of the Legacy Clans responsible for multiple World and Game firsts. We accepted what EQ2 was, and let go what it wasn't. A success was never something EQ2 was or is...

Even SOE's leadership has been quoted in interviews saying that if they had to do it over again they would of never named that client "Everquest 2".

I do agree though it is very hard to judge what will come of the business model for PS2 because SOE has been very tight lipped about what exactly "F2P" and "Cash Store" really mean to us players who want PS2 to succeed. The problem is SOE's track record is not one that has a lot of spot lights to shine on it. If your hanging your hat on EQ2 and DUOC as examples of how SOE does "freemium" and "cash store" then I am even more concerned about the SOE bean counters then I was before.

I do respect that you are a SOE Employee, and must put forward a positive foot at all turns, but I have experience with SOE going back to EQ and the track record is far from sterling. I would call it more middle of the road with cases of utter failure. (SWG Specifically)

[Chaff]

.
Something is DEFINITELY wrong with me. Despite my better judgement - I read every single post in this thread.

Right about the time I was about to snap - the sheer idoicy of the syntax hoo-haw began to erode away at my funny bone. But hey - I stayed with the whole pointless thread - so I'm guilty too.

I tend to ASSUME that some sort of "box" or "download" (P2P) fee is worth SOE considering. Make it $5. I'm looking for ways to HELP DETER HACKING. Catch and ban a hacker ?......banned hacker has to log on to SOE and "pay" $5 to buy PS2 again. Credit cards only. I'm not sure how many different credit cards typical hacker asshats have - but I think this course could prove to create a pretty good bottleneck to restrict hacker population(s).

No sub required - may exist as a basis for a "cash shop"

SOE can not maintain or improve the game without a revenue stream.

[basti]

It might honestly be best to wait and hear more about the business model before deciding how effective it'll be. DC Universe Online and EverQuest 2 for example have completely different models that are both proving to be effective. There is of course the tiered access but DCUO relies mainly on cosmetic and convenience items (name change, power respec, etc..) whereas EQ2 is heavily mounts, experience potions, house items, etc...

And that isn't to say PlanetSide 2 will be like either. They are looking at every working model right now and seeing what will provide players value for their purchases while not removing the fun.


Well, would suggest stuff that speeds up skill training and leveling in general, as well as a big bunch of pure cosmetic options.
Everything that remotly affects gameplay, like guns, attachments, ressources etc should be ingame only.

[alphi]

Was this ever confirmed? Will there be a box price or is this game entirely free?

[Graywolves]

Was this ever confirmed? Will there be a box price or is this game entirely free?

Free digital download

[Whalenator]

1. Nice Necro
2. It's entirely free. I try not to be a mean guy. Really. But look around a bit before necroing/making a new topic.

[alphi]

Its ENTIRELY FREE?! That scares me...I don' t think I like that. Makes me a little skeptical.

[Whalenator]

Its ENTIRELY FREE?! That scares me...I don' t think I like that. Makes me a little skeptical.

There are multiple topics regarding debate about the payment plan. To sum it up and save your time, SOE "promises" (Keep in mind this is SOE) that purchases will take place through an in-game shop window. You can get sidegrades (more customizing than upgrading) for your weapon using cash earned exclusively in-game or get cosmetic changes (like a different camo pattern) for real-life cash.

[Crator]

They also said several times in the GDC event videos that they are working on a subscription model for the game as well.

[Graywolves]

They also said several times in the GDC event videos that they are working on a subscription model for the game as well.

In the reddit Q&A interview I believe Higby said something that possibly a "member" would have faster offline cert training than a free roller.

[Top Sgt]

I do worry about hackers and F2P model..

This game looks so good, so many players, so big, so much battlefield type tools.. I'd easily pay $29.99 for the game and I am sure alot of others would also. it won't stop all hackers no but it would cut down on alot of them. hackers just want to troll and disrupt.. and any game that free is any easy target for them over and over.

I don't mind them even splitting it up.. Give us a free version world to play on.

Subscription players also get an option for a seperate combat world that is only available to subscription players which will help keep even more hackers out.

I'd have no problem paying for that.

just my opinion.

[Markn]

I do worry about hackers and F2P model..

This game looks so good, so many players, so big, so much battlefield type tools.. I'd easily pay $29.99 for the game and I am sure alot of others would also. it won't stop all hackers no but it would cut down on alot of them. hackers just want to troll and disrupt.. and any game that free is any easy target for them over and over.

I don't mind them even splitting it up.. Give us a free version world to play on.

Subscription players also get an option for a seperate combat world that is only available to subscription players which will help keep even more hackers out.

I'd have no problem paying for that.

just my opinion.

no to this.

The whole point of f2p is the masses would be on and playing with everyone to create epic battles if you split it up the sub servers would never be as awesome or massive.

Don't worry about hackers. Every game has them, but SOEs launcher scans for them example would be in EQ right now it scans for any and all modules loaded into the exe and it does it for EQ2 and other SOE games. Right now there are ways around it, but im sure SOE will fight hard against hackers ruining one of there new games.

[AirFell]

Its pretty simple, imagine it on a slider: Expensive VS Free = Accessibility.

Make it TOO accessible and you get asshats.

[Ragotag]

The Dev's mentioned SOE is taking a very strong anti-hacker position on PS2, to include the full integration of PunkBuster for what that is worth.

[Draz]

It's funny, I was never aware until this thread that Battlefield and Call of Duty were actually free2play games, since I bought the games and then never payed a subscription. Same with TF2, it was actually a F2P game BEFORE it went F2P. Amazing!

From what we have seen shown off it does appear that PS2 will do a lot of what LoL does with their F2P model, which I think is perfect. As for hackers, there will be some, they will receive multiple bans, and there will be people who accuse everyone who kills them of being a hacker.

[Vash02]

I wouldnt say COD or BF is F2P since you actually have to pay to get the game in the first place.

[Therion I]

Could they not force all new accounts go through a trial period (call it tutorial so as not to offend) for a few hours? During this time there could be stricter monitoring to see if they are cheating. Maybe put them in a different area so they are not interacting with live players. Sure the hackers would get wise to this but if they know that when their full account gets banned they then have to spend a few hours in 'tutorial' mode it might put them off and send them off to some other game.

This might also be of benefit to new players as being in 'tutorial mode' might seem a lot less intimidating. Tell them their stats will be wiped so if they're doing crap to begin with it doesn't matter as long as they are learning the ropes.

[Coreldan]

That would require a big enough of stream of new players so it wouldnt be deserted, which it always ends up to in every game.

[Therion I]

That would require a big enough of stream of new players so it wouldnt be deserted, which it always ends up to in every game.

I disagree, taking some of the sting out of learning a new game will encourage new players to take a dip.