Planetside Cheaters [Archive] - PlanetSide Universe

Fate

2012-01-01, 05:23 AM

You have D2A on this list. I'll admit that D2A has improved over the years, he's not a cheater. Also razor isn't a cheater, he just has no life. He's a member of AC if that matters to you. Also, Disposabletiexue and WINDRedHawk are from China. Big ping matters alot. I see you have a TRx player on the list. I will say this about TRx, they have had a lot of skilled grunts, but the only way the succeed in the air is by tag teaming a single pilot. TRxCommando is probably nothing special.

Edit: Sub my account for a month and I'll find out for you.

Fate

2012-01-01, 05:24 AM

I apparently hack, add me to the list.

Message Inspector, MOAB or popgun for confirmation.

I have tells from the same people + WarningDrunkPilot.

Coreldan

2012-01-01, 07:02 AM

Ah, name n shame innocent people who kicked your ass to get them griefed for no reason-list.

Awesome.

FastAndFree

2012-01-01, 07:37 AM

I'll just assume you were honestly trying to do something good, but...

What is such a list supposed to achieve? Even if we were to trust it, which we really have no reason to, how does it help?

ringring

2012-01-01, 08:00 AM

This is dodgy to say the least and I don't believe it.

pscheaters

2012-01-01, 08:27 AM

Yes I have seriously considered accidentally naming someone who is genuinely good as a cheater. I think the guys that have been listed as suspected but not confirmed falls into the incredibly awesome category.

But if they are genuine, I do not think the same awesome people mind having their awesomeness investigated and observed. I do feel suspicious about certain players but when I do not find any evidence of blatant cheating, then I have deep down respect for how good they are in this game.

If a genuine mistake has been made, then I will correct the listing.

There are players who are simply genuinely good. Youtubes on some of the Starcraft 2 pro-gamers who play games as a form of "sport" will quickly show you how good and fast they are.

The other motivation is to give aggrieved members of the player community a vent for their concerns. Right now, I see the reports coming in via the /c chat. The in-game /appeal system is probably overloaded right now and work on a repeat offender and majority vote basis i.e. xyz is getting appealed too often, so let's have a look at him.

Cheat-aggrieved members of the player community want to know that their grievances are heard and investigated. This is designed to give them that. A simple thank you and yes we are looking into your complaint right now goes a long way.

Well, players who use cheats also need to consider the fact that their "playstyle" drives genuine players away from the game. So please consider who is causing who grief.

For myself, it is also a social experiment designed to allow other players who have used cheats a chance to redeem themselves. I understand certain people are compelled towards using cheats because they are simply fighting fire with fire. I live in a country where the system of law is designed to rehabilitate and reform instead of imprison minor offenders and place them on the wrong side of the fence for life, a system I fully believe in because none of us are perfect really.

I also work in information security. Unfortunately, I also believe that "it takes a thief to catch a thief". Players who have used cheats understand very well what the cheats are capable of and how to distinguish genuine gaming awesomeness from cheat-assisted performance.

And yes, I have had some past experience as a event-organising GM also ... but with what I know these days in terms of information security, I find it hard to believe that PlanetSide developers do not already know who the cheaters are.

What I am doing now through quiet observation is so much less efficient than the available tools and techniques these days :)

But please feel free to flame all you want. I am also a shameless flame-absorbing troll that is actually enjoying this a lot right now, including reading all the flames. More!!! More!!! Hahaha

Crator

2012-01-01, 09:09 AM

Yes I have seriously considered accidentally naming someone who is genuinely good as a cheater.

Can't be an accident if you've considered it.

I think the guys that have been listed as suspected but not confirmed falls into the incredibly awesome category.

But if they are genuine, I do not think the same awesome people mind having their awesomeness investigated and observed. I do feel suspicious about certain players but when I do not find any evidence of blatant cheating, then I have deep down respect for how good they are in this game.

If a genuine mistake has been made, then I will correct the listing.

The list is a mistake, at least in it's current form. Also, how are you supposed to verify if a mistake has been made or not. If you're going to keep the list you should have categories for the names (Unverified, Verified Cheater, Expert Gamer, etc.)

Coreldan

2012-01-01, 09:11 AM

The list could work IF every name had some sort of proof included with it.

APB has a similar third party list, but at least for every person named, they have video footage. Naturally some of the videos can be subjective whether it's cheats or not, but they have several people voting on each case whether they think it's cheating or not.

Pillow

2012-01-01, 09:49 AM

It looks like some angry NC reported the whole TR and VS population. :)

pscheaters

2012-01-01, 10:05 AM

Ok Crator's and Coreldan's posts are quite constructive and has got me thinking. For the moment, I will get fraps going and capture videos of the confirmed cheaters in action.

The only one problem with that I guess is that it can become harder and harder to catch cheaters because it may reveal the observation and investigative techniques used to identify the cheaters.

I kinda have to get better and better catching them. May be more efficient if I code an API that GM's and game developers can use to interrogate if the game has been "injected" with tampering code (medium-term project I guess).

yonman

2012-01-01, 10:31 AM

basti

2012-01-01, 10:42 AM

Ah, nice list.

I suggest you add everyone who ever played, currently plays or will play to the list.

We remove them if we want, or not.

pscheaters

2012-01-01, 10:56 AM

SgtMAD

2012-01-01, 10:59 AM

this is pointless,trying to make a list is a friggin waste of damn time, if you hadn't noticed PS IS DEAD!!

so why in the hell would you make a list of cheaters in a game that is so far past its prime that even most of the ppl that love that game won't even play it anymore?

pscheaters

2012-01-01, 11:08 AM

I don't see it as pointless. PS1 was released on May 2003. I immediately subbed on June 2003 and enjoyed it for a couple of years until the first wave of speed-hacked cheats plagued the game.

When I resubbed in Jan 2011 for 1 month, I unsubbed again within a few days when the barcode hackers was running rampant.

Now, the barcode hackers are no more which means SOE have done something.

Although the current player base is quite small, I think it is quite healthy still, at least compared to my past experiences.

Now that PS2 is around the corner, it is more important than ever to drive home the points to the developers that cheating ruins the game for many players. There are 2 ways they can go about it. Either actively manage cheating or give the player community the means to do it.

Not going to suggest that this will be an easy task but it is necessary one. Steam Valve VAC doesn't work either.

CidHighwind

2012-01-01, 01:41 PM

I have a few examples of this that will perhaps put things in better perspective.

Salem Witch Trials

The Red Scare

The Reign of Terror

McCarthyism

This whole list is a bad idea, and infringes on the idea of innocent until PROVEN guilty. As this list goes, its innocent until accused by those who can't ever truly know.

The devs have said "We've got this." I believe them because they can actually do something about it in PS2.

In Higby we trust.

ringring

2012-01-01, 01:43 PM

And just to point out the slander part - you may want to not display unconfirmed names. The damage to one's reputation of just appearing on this list could ruin people's gaming experience, even if only temporarily. In the real world, this would be slander and make you liable if you can't prove the claim ...
Libel as it is written as opposed to slander which is spoken.

You'll notice that SOE doesn't publicise the names or character names of the people that it bans. I guess there must be a reason........

Effective

2012-01-01, 02:07 PM

Simply claiming someone cheats never works.

Like I will personally vouche for commando, he's a very skilled grunt. One of the scariest people I've ever fought on the ground when on different empire

I'd have to dig it up, but I have a similar list via google documents. But with evidence, and an explanation on various cheats in planetside, and how to identify them. I'll get it later this evening.

www.youtube.com/user/gigantor89

If you're really commited to this. Here's some videos.

Also "it takes a thief to catch a thief", I don't think that applies to planetside players who cheat. As the vast majority of the cheaters I've encountered are all really, really bad at planetside. I've only met a very small hand full of players would be considered even above average, who ended up being cheaters.

pscheaters

2012-01-01, 03:57 PM

This whole list is a bad idea, and infringes on the idea of innocent until PROVEN guilty. As this list goes, its innocent until accused by those who can't ever truly know.

Not really. Previous posters, were referring to a different version of the growing and much longer list that is still visible in the wiki's history, where unconfirmed "awesome" players are also listed.

This has since been truncated to the confirmed cheaters. And yes, it is surprising. Some of these players are in fact really nice guys, and perhaps even good players, but unfortunately, they are also using cheats.

The evidence will be placed on Youtube later when I feel that I have developed more advanced techniques of identifying the cheats. And yea, no trial. Confirmed. No doubts :)

ShockFC

2012-01-01, 08:17 PM

This is fucking stupid. Bad player is bad, and mad. Cheaters exist(ed) in PS1, but most were either obvious or terrible. You got beat by CSHD and you're assuming it's cheating, I can guarantee this for 99% of your claims. Shut the fuck up and go away.

Effective

2012-01-01, 08:41 PM

pscheaters

2012-01-01, 09:42 PM

Cheaters exist(ed) in PS1, but most were either obvious or terrible.

Heh I've had K/D as high as 50:1 to 100:1 legitimately. But your point is, if people are using cheats in a not very obvious way, then its ok? I disagree.

Having finally checked out and researched what the cheats do, even designers of cheats these days are clever enough to make their cheats non-obvious (15% ROF and no COF bloom?) and resilient to abuse (e.g. teleport timer?).

But the point is, it is detectable if you know what to look for. And coding counters to injection methods of cheating is the perfect intellectual challenge that I've been looking for.

pscheaters

2012-01-01, 09:46 PM

Making claims before posting actual evidence is dumb.

Heh you see any GM post evidence before banning? Go away. I've got the evidence and I will reveal it when I am happy enough that I've rounded up a good portion of you guys.

Do not pretend to be good legitimate players and think if you can get away with it, then it is ok.

Effective

2012-01-01, 09:48 PM

Heh I've had K/D as high as 50:1 to 100:1 legitimately. But your point is, if people are using cheats in a not very obvious way, then its ok? I disagree.

Having finally checked out and researched what the cheats do, even designers of cheats these days are clever enough to make their cheats non-obvious (15% ROF and no COF bloom?) and resilient to abuse (e.g. teleport timer?).

But the point is, it is detectable if you know what to look for. And coding counters to injection methods of cheating is the perfect intellectual challenge that I've been looking for.

K/D is not a good way to determine if a player is good or bad.

Determining if someone is a cheater is completely different, for example, a not obvious cheat is a 10% increase on rof, and a slightly decreased COF, to just give a little advantage. There really isn't a way to determine if someone might be cheating. Due to the was CSHD works, time no longer becomes a value that can be trusted in determining these cheaters.

That being said, cheats like Radar hacks, no reload, infinite afterburn are easy to notice and record (as I have done before in the past). It's much easier to show this to people, as these have reliable values that can be tested against.

Heh you see any GM post evidence before banning? Go away. I've got the evidence and I will reveal it when I am happy enough that I've rounded up a good portion of you guys.

Do not pretend to be good legitimate players and think if you can get away with it, then it is ok.

Also, no GM's don't post evidence, which I believe is dumb. I do, when making claims that someone might be cheating, I've done this multiple times already. For example

Planetside - Radar Hackers - RengadManiac (Now known as Tiaane) - YouTube

By "rounding you guys up" I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) you mean members of TRx and other cheaters. We (TRx) don't condone cheaters, at all. That alongside the fact that very few TRx play planetside now, the chances of you recording (and getting an actually decent recording that just isn't some gimmick in CSHD) anyone I haven't recorded already close to none.

You don't have any evidence. Period.

pscheaters

2012-01-01, 10:26 PM

Am I mad? Yes, of course, it takes a certain degree of madness to want to go so far to take you guys down. I do not get paid for doing this whilst I can get paid a lot more using my time and skills in a different capacity but its the holidays and I got bored. :)

I was going down the path you were going but there are better ways. Lets say:

Level 1 - unassisted observation through game client (which is what you have done)
Level 2 - assisted observation through game client (using cheats to spot cheats or GM's using GM privileges, however, observation is still based on behavioural evidence)
Level 3 - assisted observation and measurement of datastream (www.winpcap.org, I am sure SOE have tools to do this server-side already). Yes, latency/lag may contribute to a certain degree of variation in ROF, but if the same person is consistently always falling on the +x% side (over 30 minutes), then there is 99.5% statistical confidence, that the person is using ROF cheat. TRxCommando does not die and respawn often so its easy to track him using same faction (dont need alt, main is TR infil anyway).
Level 4 - only people I am willing to share this is with game developers...

Now I get which soft spot I've hit. To be honest, throughout this entire thread, I was not even thinking or referring to TRx at all but all the players who are using cheats. This very post is in fact the first time throughout this entire thread that I am even mentioning TRx in response to your defense.

TRxCommando is a confirmed cheater. Sorry cant take that back.

pscheaters

2012-01-01, 10:38 PM

K/D is not a good way to determine if a player is good or bad.

Agreed. I had to resort to lame high K/D and survivability techniques like low population farming, constant spawn-camping and carmageddon (before the nerf) to get this. But the point is, I have been around long enough to know what I am talking about ...

Effective

2012-01-01, 10:41 PM

I was going down the path you were going but there are better ways. Lets say:

Level 1 - unassisted observation through game client (which is what you have done)
Level 2 - assisted observation through game client (using cheats to spot cheats or GM's using GM privileges, however, observation is still based on behavioural evidence)
Level 3 - assisted observation and measurement of datastream (www.winpcap.org, I am sure SOE have tools to do this server-side already). Yes, latency/lag may contribute to a certain degree of variation in ROF, but if the same person is consistently always falling on the +x% side (over 30 minutes), then there is 99.5% statistical confidence, that the person is using ROF cheat. TRxCommando does not die and respawn often so its easy to track him using same faction (dont need alt, main is TR infil anyway).
Level 4 - only people I am willing to share this is with game developers...

TRxCommando is a confirmed cheater. Sorry cant take that back.

I personally refuse to use cheats to help determine cheaters, nor do I have the means to access GM abilities (So yes, I'm limited to a certain degree). Consistently falling on +x%, they could just be lagging all the time, Commando, doesn't live anywhere near the server, so his ping is constantly going to be high, and always is.

Not dieing is not a sign someone is cheating, respawning often is a sign of not dieing often.

GM's will not use player recorded videos as evidence for banning.
Making a claim, then hiding any so called evidence from the public, will get you nowhere with actually getting players banned

http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/ff345/GIGANTOR89/Vorkera.jpg

Unless they changed this policy, then you're out of luck.

pscheaters

2012-01-01, 10:57 PM

Making claims before posting actual evidence is dumb.

Wow. Just found this ...

http://www.trxclan.com/forums/index.php/topic,454.0.html?PHPSESSID=d59d46e0ab2ba028ef59b5f 864915896

Ok yea ... TRx's own list of confirmed and wait a minute ... unconfirmed cheaters ?!?! Maybe you may want to consider making this TRx forum post non-public or break the link?

Hypocrit. Time to start choking on your own big fat [insert whatever you like here because I dont really care].

And you got me wrong there again ... I did not set out to get TRx banned. Having only resubbed less than a fortnight ago, I am totally unaware of TRx's reputation or in-game politics until 5 minutes ago (love Google).

Post-edit: Flames aside, to be fair, though there are many reports on the web, I do not believe the evidence until I see it for myself. I would NOT go so far as to brand the entire TRx clan as cheaters. My view is that they are in fact a bunch of very good gamers who take their pastime quite seriously but are unfortunately tarnished by a few bad apples.

Effective

2012-01-01, 11:16 PM

Wow. Just found this ...

http://www.trxclan.com/forums/index.php/topic,454.0.html?PHPSESSID=d59d46e0ab2ba028ef59b5f 864915896

Ok yea ... TRx's own list of confirmed and wait a minute ... unconfirmed cheaters ?!?!

Hypocrit. Time to start choking on your own big fat [insert whatever you like here because I dont really care].

And you got me wrong there again ... I did not set out to get TRx banned. Having only resubbed less than a fortnight ago, I am totally unaware of TRx's reputation or in-game politics until 5 minutes ago (love Google).

Forgot I even had that. Thought it was lost since I was under the impression the forums/website would go permanently down, apparently it came back up recently, thanks for letting me know.

I moved the document to a google document before hand.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z-M6U0tuKAnfkCimPIVqH-250AhIUzuEJWkowmvA7eg/edit?hl=en_US

I removed the unconfirmed cheaters list for 1 particular reason, that being that if I want to catch a cheater, seems like a bad idea to have a public resource available with a players name (with that being said, I may as well remove that unconfirmed list while I remember).

Hypocrite? No, someone who's giving advice over past mistakes? Yes.

As for not caring, you took the time to google an outfit over a matter which you "don't care about" as you say. Sure you don't care. I still believe in Santa. ./end sarcasm

I only assumed you were talking about us for the simple "rounding you guys up" in a response to me, which implies clearly more then you meant in this case. Not that it matters with TRx being a dead outfit. I also apologize for the misunderstanding.

pscheaters

2012-01-01, 11:19 PM

Consistently falling on +x%, they could just be lagging all the time

Ok a brief tute on statistics. Latency/lag contributes random noise because ROF is a measure of number of rounds fired in the time duration between first round and last round. Even if a player is consistently lagging, then mean/average noise on ROF is 0. However, if ROF is consistently +10% or +15% higher, over a large measurement period, then bingo, we have 99.5% statistical confidence of an ... awesome player? Yea right.

I can explain statistical confidence in terms of Central Limit Theorem, sampling size and the Normal distribution also if you would like me to do that.

Effective

2012-01-01, 11:19 PM

Ok a brief tute on statistics. Latency/lag contributes random noise because ROF is a measure of number of rounds fired in the time duration between first round and last round. Even if a player is consistently lagging, then mean/average noise on ROF is 0. However, if ROF is consistently +10% or +15% higher, over a large measurement period, then bingo, we have 99.5% statistical confidence of an ... awesome player? Yea right.

Then show us your marvelous evidence, or don't it won't matter.

CidHighwind

2012-01-02, 03:59 AM

It seems like this entire thread has turned into an unproductive (not that it was terribly productive in the first place) flame thread - which seems to be exactly what the troll has desired. Using cheats to catch cheaters, while innovative (Read: Not innovative) is hardly commendable, nor is it at all productive, as it supports those who create the cheats.

Furthermore, this is in regards to Planetside 1, which, while I love it, has seemingly very little do with what Planetside 2 will BECOME based on what the devs have said in regards to cheat detection. We have little more information than that. Rather than not trusting them and their own ability to recognize cheaters and the importance of removing them from the equation in PS2, lets not presume that we, as all-powerful as pscheaters would like us to believe he is by buying some cheats and making a list (and checking it twice!) are any more capable of catching cheaters in the game that even he has claimed is rife with cheaters.

Let us INSTEAD take the opportunity to be constructive with ways that we can HELP dev's catch cheaters in this next, wonderful iteration of a game we all love to play.

What do yah say? More flames? or should we douse this fire to build a house worth living in, rather than watching our old one go up in smoke?

:groovy:

pscheaters

2012-01-02, 04:11 AM

Let us INSTEAD take the opportunity to be constructive with ways that we can HELP dev's catch cheaters in this next, wonderful iteration of a game we all love to play.
:groovy:

What do you think one of my agenda is with these posts? Levels 2, 3 and 4 controls against game hacking described above requires increasing levels of support from game developers and should, rightfully, be exercised server-side (and possibly even client-side) by the game developers themselves.

Because PS2 is around the corner, the timing is better than ever right now to emphasise what cheating does to games and PS1's shortcomings. It kills games in 2 ways:
1. players without cheats quit out of frustration
2. players with cheats get banned or they get bored and leave eventually because the element of PVP challenge is gone

All that said, I am confident PS1 has a good team at the moment that are well aware of all these issues and have considered or are working on game designs that minimises the impact cheats can have on games.

Nephilimuk

2012-01-02, 08:48 AM

meh my eyes are bleeding

SuperMorto

2012-01-02, 09:31 AM

I bought a gun today, it was to go looking for people with guns. You all know how this will end.

Traak

2012-01-03, 01:14 AM

Great idea. Too bad the list is so small.

pscheaters

2012-01-03, 02:18 AM

But I concur with Effect. This list is not going to work and I am thinking of taking it down already.

As players, we don't really have the means to fight the cheaters except lobby PS2 developers to consider anti-cheating game designs that ensure the painful history of PS1 do not repeat itself.

SKYeXile

2012-01-03, 02:25 AM

I had a K/D of 250/0...in just over an hour... I did it with laser beams.

pscheaters

2012-01-03, 02:29 AM

I had a K/D of 250/0...in just over an hour... I did it with laser beams.

Yea ... too bad the guys in VR shooting range don't shoot back.

pscheaters

2012-01-03, 02:38 AM

Out of all this, the one thing I want to know is why games these days do not broadcast or publish who they ban.

It is good for the player community because they know that:
1. SOE is doing something,
2. it is good deterrent and warning to those that want to cheat,
3. cheaters are shamed and stand to lose their friends and all respect built within the community,
4. members griefed by cheats and who took the trouble to /appeal are appeased
5. other players get confirmation and closure on their suspicions

In the old days, kicks and bans are broadcasted.

SKYeXile

2012-01-03, 05:17 AM

Yea ... too bad the guys in VR shooting range don't shoot back.

Do you doubt my power squire?

razor851

2012-01-03, 11:34 AM

I'm honored to be on your list.

morf

2012-01-03, 02:33 PM

i'm upset that i'm not on the list.

can you just add me and take my word for it that i cheat, or do i physically have to find you in the game and mow you down 10-12 times? Can you at least give me your character name?

Thanks

SuperMorto

2012-01-03, 05:10 PM

You know what its up to us to do it, with no hacks or cheats just sticking together and not letting them beat us.

Fate

2012-01-07, 03:46 PM

I had a K/D of 250/0...in just over an hour... I did it with laser beams.

This is why everyone hated BFR's... and SKYeXile.

Firefly

2012-01-07, 03:59 PM

My original thinking was in fact to warn the suspected cheaters that they have been reported and are on the watchlist so that they have the opportunity to mend their ways. But I get your point that the process has to be evidence-based in order to elevate the list from being abused as a griefing channel.

Removed the unconfirmed and keeping the suspect list private.

Will need to start a new page also because wiki's have a way of keeping history very well.
So if I log into the game and I school you a few times, will you put my name on the list? And if you do, please PM me your home address so I can bring my CPU by and after I school you in your own home, stuff the CPU up your ass sideways for being a d-bag and a rabble-rouser.

You can't prove a goddamned thing. If you don't have access to the game's back end, you're basically presuming that anyone who appears to be doing something funny is cheating.