Buggies; what role should they fill?

[DviddLeff]

The devs have said that the buggies are unlikely to make it into the game at launch, but will be in afterwards.

But my question is what role will they play?

Tanks being able to equip a variety of weaponry will make them more versatile and more able to fill roles that were filled by buggies in the original (eg the Skyguard being the only mobile ground vehicle based AA, and the Thresher filling in for the Magriders lack of effective AI).

The empire specific aircraft also fill the role of rapid assault vehicle, especially with them being able to adjust their weaponry as well.

Now what are buggies and the like used for in real life? Transport of troops and equipment behind the battle lines.

Perhaps therefore buggies should be able to carry more personnel than tanks, and certainly travel faster. They could also be customisable to allow them to serve a variety of support roles; spawn points once set up, equipment terminals for resupply, etc.

What are your thoughts on buggies?

[acosmo]

What are your thoughts on buggies?

highly maneuverable fast moving weapons platforms. like horse drawn cannons in the mexican american war

[Vancha]

The devs have said that the buggies are unlikely to make it into the game at launch, but will be in afterwards.

But my question is what role will they play?

Tanks being able to equip a variety of weaponry will make them more versatile and more able to fill roles that were filled by buggies in the original (eg the Skyguard being the only mobile ground vehicle based AA, and the Thresher filling in for the Magriders lack of effective AI).

The empire specific aircraft also fill the role of rapid assault vehicle, especially with them being able to adjust their weaponry as well.

Now what are buggies and the like used for in real life? Transport of troops and equipment behind the battle lines.

Perhaps therefore buggies should be able to carry more personnel than tanks, and certainly travel faster. They could also be customisable to allow them to serve a variety of support roles; spawn points once set up, equipment terminals for resupply, etc.

What are your thoughts on buggies?

I don't think air has the monopoly on quick assault. We know there'll be air-unfriendly areas, as well as times when there's simply too much AA around for air to get close, but I like the idea of expanding buggies' role to equipment transport/possibly a MAX transport (and I do mean a MAX).

Edit: Or maybe I don't. We still don't know enough about them to say.

[Aractain]

Light infantry transport (3-4 positions), big gun options (heavy AA, AT and AI weapons) for the gunner with a smaller (or optional) gun for the driver.

Obiovusly fast movement - lots of ability to hill climb and move over rough terrain.

Definately like the idea of support customisation as well as using them as 'ground fast response' (I want them to be that fast pls).

[Jimmuc]

imo buggies should be versatile. like you said in your post Dvidd, i think they should also be able to equip AV, AI, and AA weapons. fast land response/light assault is what i've always seen them as.

[Shogun]

what about the mainrole they had in ps1?

being a fast vehicle a rexo could drive.

we don´t know if there will still be the driver-penaltys for rexo wearing soldiers. if they still exist, this aspect still has some value

[EASyEightyEight]

I imagine they'll be the softer, faster variant of the tanks. They, in their own way, will pack a punch that can match a tank, but getting hit isn't an option, where as a tank is built to take a blow and keep plowing forward. It would be a play style choice.

[Knocky]

Buggies are hunters.....

[Atuday]

Fast scouts hunting for the nearest enemy tank group so they can call in air support to the right areas and also to prevent sneak attacks. In strategy information is power.

[LongBow]

buggy's will always rock with speed, and honestly I think their meta game role would come out as AA or AT hunters
...they may lack the armour but they will be fast and their speed will render traditional AT and AA weapons less than effective. (assuming the driver is capable enough!)

[Espion]

Harassment.

[basti]

Buggies are hunters.....

This.

While you use tanks to break into the enemy lines or defend your stuff, you use buggys to hunt down lone tanks and runners.

Buggys really should have AV, AI and AA as options. They should be fast, but only lightly armoured.
And a single gun turret, controlled by the gunner. The driver could have a straight forward gun, if any.

[Vash02]

ha, if the buggies are going to be anything like the ones in PS1, driving will be a full time job.

[texico]

Vestality and also very effective on all kinds of terrain (or perhaps have modding options for this). We don't know how terrain will affect vehicles, but for examples buggies can have tyre mods for driving on ice, lots of suspension for rocky terrain and maybe even options for motorboat-esque floating, like the thresher.

The emphasis will be on light armour, maneuverability, versatility, light transport perhaps. They'll definitely have their place.

[Erendil]

I remember having lots of discussions back in the day on the SOE boards about what the Buggy's role was in PS1. I suspect it'll be very similar in PS2 to what it was in PS1, and it's best viewed when compared to the other vehicles..


MBT's - These are the spearhead of your assault. They are designed to punch holes in enemy defenses, to push the enemy back and move your empire's front lines forward, allowing support troops and vehicles to move up and hold the territory the MBT's just capped. They are also used to bear the brunt of any massed enemy assaults and are used to stop their advance, esp around bottlenecks like bridges and ravines.

Buggies - I think of Buggies as the Harbingers of Chaos. :cool: Their job is to get in amongst enemy forces where they're not yet fully entrenched, stir up the bee's nest, and then get out. They use their superior speed to probe enemy lines to look for weaknesses in the front or along the flanks. If they can get behind the lines to attack enemy support vehicles or vehicles getting repaired, all the better. Otherwise they can just weave in and out amongst enemy forces, killing smaller units and troops and harassing and distracting enemy MBT's.

Buggies are also good at using their superior speed to get into position for flanking attacks on enemy MBT formations, trying to disrupt their forward momentum and again causing chaos so their own Empire's MBT's can move in and mop up. And in PS2 I hope they'll be better than MBT's for AI duties. MBT's IMO should focus more on AV.

Lightnings - They are fast and light much like Buggies, but the driver is also the gunner so they're not as effective weaving in and out of enemy forces since it's harder to concentrate on driving and gunning at the same time. They're best suited for fire support just behind the forward-most point of contact with the enemy and precision striking starting from a place a relative security where they can scan the battlefield for exposed/injured opponents. So fighting right behind MBT's where they can use their speed to zoom in quickly where needed and then zoom back out for repairs, or creeping up on the enemy's flanks to pick off strays, intercept fleeing injured vehicles, etc. They are the U-Boats of PS.

[CutterJohn]

I personally feel that all buggies should hover. Vanu using magic tech, and NC/TR using thrusters or propellers. Ideally they should control like the tanks in Battlezone2. Making them all hover would give all three factions the capability to fight over water. They should also have some limited jumping ability. Nothing on the scale of a FV, but enough to be able to clear a sunderer, or a base wall if using a hill to ramp.

They should be glass cannons... High dps weapons, but rather easy to kill if you lay a bead on them.

Always the emphasis should be on mobility for these things though. The ride should be glass smooth at top speed, and the gunners weapon heavily stabilized.

Obviously they'd have the same AV/AI/AA capability that tanks and lightnings have.

There specific role would somewhat of a split between tanks and aircav. Medium speed response, but with more staying power and more accessible cover than aircraft possess. They would rove to pick off stragglers or hit the flanks of the enemy. They wouldn't be much good in the heart of a major battle.

[acosmo]

They should be glass cannons... High dps weapons, but rather easy to kill if you lay a bead on them.

Always the emphasis should be on mobility for these things though. The ride should be glass smooth at top speed, and the gunners weapon heavily stabilized.

Obviously they'd have the same AV/AI/AA capability that tanks and lightnings have.

There specific role would somewhat of a split between tanks and aircav. Medium speed response, but with more staying power and more accessible cover than aircraft possess. They would rove to pick off stragglers or hit the flanks of the enemy. They wouldn't be much good in the heart of a major battle.

pretty much. they're mobile weapons platforms. buggies are just a way to carry the big guns a high speeds to where they need to be tactically.

[Xyntech]

I personally feel that all buggies should hover. Vanu using magic tech, and NC/TR using thrusters or propellers. Ideally they should control like the tanks in Battlezone2. Making them all hover would give all three factions the capability to fight over water. They should also have some limited jumping ability. Nothing on the scale of a FV, but enough to be able to clear a sunderer, or a base wall if using a hill to ramp.

They should be glass cannons... High dps weapons, but rather easy to kill if you lay a bead on them.

Always the emphasis should be on mobility for these things though. The ride should be glass smooth at top speed, and the gunners weapon heavily stabilized.

Obviously they'd have the same AV/AI/AA capability that tanks and lightnings have.

There specific role would somewhat of a split between tanks and aircav. Medium speed response, but with more staying power and more accessible cover than aircraft possess. They would rove to pick off stragglers or hit the flanks of the enemy. They wouldn't be much good in the heart of a major battle.

That's actually pretty interesting. Acting like a bridge between tanks and fighters.

Obviously the TR and NC ones could be more basic thrust hovering, while the VS one, being a cross between the Magrider and the Scythe, could maybe temporarily gain some extra altitude or something.

I'd still like to see buggies get more passenger slots than before, like having all empires buggies being 3 man like the TR's old Marauder was. Just so long as both gunners get some decent guns.

Bottom line is that I'd like to see buggies be unique, awesome and useful. Why waste development time on them if they aren't going to be a valuable contribution to the gameplay? I think that there are enough potential ways to diversify them and make them fill their own unique, valuable niche on the battlefield though. I'm not too worried about seeing them put in down the road.

[EASyEightyEight]

Wouldn't count on buggies to all have hover capability. Modified to float, sure, but not actual floating capability unless SOE is hell bent on making the driver the main gunner as well. The driver=gunner approach might work for a tank, but for a buggy, where driving fast is life, they need to keep their eyes forward.

I'm not against making the task optional for the driver though, just as with handing over the tank cannons to a passenger/gunner. But hrm... 3 people per buggy, I can see that working for ALL empires nicely, though I'm liking the idea of a 2 man hover cycle for the Vanu Sovereignty for some reason.

[CutterJohn]

Fixed forward guns work admirably on hover vehicles. A thresher would be well served with a 20mm slapped up front for occasions it could use it.

We could also probably convince them, however, that we're fine with having one combat vehicle thats gunner weapon only so long as its an absolute joy to drive. I think they'd agree.

As for 3 man.. I'd prefer 3 man tanks, personally, but to each their own.

[Forsaken One]

this
http://macesmapping.map-craft.com/images/newsimages/bf2142NS.jpg

but maybe with more seats and a bigger gun/guns.

I think a fast, super mobile "hover" buggie would be great.

what would it be good at? its "special" hover ability will let it avoid all mines/stuff placed on the ground. (so able to ride into heavily protected places that a tank could not.)

Each could even have empire style ability's. VS could use a hover jump to maybe jump over short walls/tank traps. TR could have a faster firing thing, and the NC harder hitting thing. all with cooldowns or other balances. lol

[Lonehunter]

Hit'n run

N'uf said

[acosmo]

: ( buggies are not hit and run, air cav does a much better job at that.

buggies are simply heavy weapons platforms on wheels meant for ranged support (buggies in close range combat don't make sense, they're terribly weak). guns can be more effective in some places than others. this is especially true with mounted weapons and buggies capable of hauling those guns to the best places.

strategically, buggies are best used from a distance almost like sniper vehicles

[Xyntech]

I also think that no matter what other AA platforms are in the game, buggies have the potential to be the best. I don't think the game will be broken without them, but I think they'll be the first choice for AA in a lot of situations.

Just being able to get around fast and being a smaller, faster target make it a good choice already, and if it's a glass cannon, it's guns should be pretty devastating to aircraft.

I don't specifically want hover buggies (although I wouldn't mind them, cool idea), but I definitely want some kind of small, fast, multi-crew land vehicle that's useful and a lot of fun.

The biggest reason that I think it should have more than 2 seats is because the deliverer is gone. Merging the ES buggies with the deliverer to create a new, even more useful vehicle would be great. Hell, add in the deliverers amphibious floating ability to the TR and NC variants if you don't want to have them outright hover.

[Hmr85]

I have not really read the other page. With that said. I have always used buggies as a hit and run tactic. A good driver and gunner in a enforcer was devastating to armor if you where good at it.

Speed into the middle of a advancing TR armor column pop a tank or two and haul ass out of there before they could dial in on you.

Skyguard was another great vehicle. Mobile AA that was fast enough to get to a area dominated by skeeters and put some suppressive fire down on the enemy. They where fantastic for harassing fast movers in and around their base and getting out of there. Also great for sitting out in the middle of no where and picking off the few unaware pilots. :lol:

My outfit always had two skyguards tag along with our armored column to provide air defense with two Enforcers providing security for the fast moving buggies or needing to chase somebody down. They where very effective.

This is why I really hope they put buggies in the game.

[xSlideShow]

I remember having lots of discussions back in the day on the SOE boards about what the Buggy's role was in PS1. I suspect it'll be very similar in PS2 to what it was in PS1, and it's best viewed when compared to the other vehicles..


MBT's - These are the spearhead of your assault. They are designed to punch holes in enemy defenses, to push the enemy back and move your empire's front lines forward, allowing support troops and vehicles to move up and hold the territory the MBT's just capped. They are also used to bear the brunt of any massed enemy assaults and are used to stop their advance, esp around bottlenecks like bridges and ravines.

Buggies - I think of Buggies as the Harbingers of Chaos. :cool: Their job is to get in amongst enemy forces where they're not yet fully entrenched, stir up the bee's nest, and then get out. They use their superior speed to probe enemy lines to look for weaknesses in the front or along the flanks. If they can get behind the lines to attack enemy support vehicles or vehicles getting repaired, all the better. Otherwise they can just weave in and out amongst enemy forces, killing smaller units and troops and harassing and distracting enemy MBT's.

Buggies are also good at using their superior speed to get into position for flanking attacks on enemy MBT formations, trying to disrupt their forward momentum and again causing chaos so their own Empire's MBT's can move in and mop up. And in PS2 I hope they'll be better than MBT's for AI duties. MBT's IMO should focus more on AV.

Lightnings - They are fast and light much like Buggies, but the driver is also the gunner so they're not as effective weaving in and out of enemy forces since it's harder to concentrate on driving and gunning at the same time. They're best suited for fire support just behind the forward-most point of contact with the enemy and precision striking starting from a place a relative security where they can scan the battlefield for exposed/injured opponents. So fighting right behind MBT's where they can use their speed to zoom in quickly where needed and then zoom back out for repairs, or creeping up on the enemy's flanks to pick off strays, intercept fleeing injured vehicles, etc. They are the U-Boats of PS.

Pretty much got it right. I think the buggies should be the best at killing infantry but require 2+ Gunners to be effective. I would like to see it seat 5 this includes driver, 2 gunners, 2 passengers. It's light armor makes it similar to a skirmisher. So if it's the medics vehicle of choice that would also be cool.

[Erendil]

I also think that no matter what other AA platforms are in the game, buggies have the potential to be the best. I don't think the game will be broken without them, but I think they'll be the first choice for AA in a lot of situations.

Just being able to get around fast and being a smaller, faster target make it a good choice already, and if it's a glass cannon, it's guns should be pretty devastating to aircraft.

I don't specifically want hover buggies (although I wouldn't mind them, cool idea), but I definitely want some kind of small, fast, multi-crew land vehicle that's useful and a lot of fun.

The biggest reason that I think it should have more than 2 seats is because the deliverer is gone. Merging the ES buggies with the deliverer to create a new, even more useful vehicle would be great. Hell, add in the deliverers amphibious floating ability to the TR and NC variants if you don't want to have them outright hover.

Cool idea, combining the Deli and Buggy into one vehicle. With amphibious capability. :cool:


Pretty much got it right. I think the buggies should be the best at killing infantry but require 2+ Gunners to be effective. I would like to see it seat 5 this includes driver, 2 gunners, 2 passengers. It's light armor makes it similar to a skirmisher. So if it's the medics vehicle of choice that would also be cool.

I like this layout. Now imagine if the 2 passengers could fire their infantry weapons... :D

[Knocky]

http://www.hightech-edge.com/wp-content/uploads/lockheed-martin-amphibious-assault-vehicle.jpg

[Baneblade]

Buggies should be more versatile than any other vehicle. The driver should be the driver, but all of them should be able to carry at minimum 3 players. Take the Enforcer as an example here:

The gunner spot can vary between AV, AI, AA, MAX Hauler, Equipment Terminal (which would mean the third guy is just a passenger in a jump seat), and perhaps even a command and control system of some sort.

The current Enforcer could easily have another passenger spot next to the driver just like every other buggy in PS... anyway. That passenger spot could easily be configured to be a lighter AV, AI, or AA weapon seat. Keep the heavy stuff in the back, but have light stuff in front.

They should also be able to change how much armor they have, heavier armor is slower and less maneuverable, light armor is the opposite. But even with the heaviest armor, they would still be paper tanks at best.

Make them somewhat amphibious. Deliverer style perhaps. Being able to ford a river is invaluable.

[acosmo]

i doubt we can agree on their purpose but it seems we do agree on their capacity.

highly maneuverable and fast glass cannon.

[Baneblade]

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j186/tny795/Military/alsv.jpg

[Alanim]

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j186/tny795/Military/alsv.jpg

Only if I can get some thrusters on that bad boy, 100% speed boost for -90% turning capability, sign me up.

[Knocky]

http://www.carpictures.com/media/images/640/07FD9474030085E.jpeg
http://www.carpictures.com/media/images/640/07FD9474030085F.jpeg

[Princess Frosty]

Harassment.

This. There's a reason one of the original buggies was called the "Harasser", it's perfect for fast hit and run manoeuvres which do light damage but cause the enemy to react and pull troops off more important targets to intercept. If you can piss off a tank and pull it from the front lines on a trek through some woods or swamp then it's not shooting at it's target and that's valuable, especially when direct counter attacks aren't working.

They were never AV even the Marauder with it's fast firing grenade launcher was never going to pose a threat for tanks, and troops generally could avoid them if they had some cover, so as direct assault these vehicles sucked.

They were great (and FUN!) for bombing around the battlefield at high speed picking up people and giving them a ride, hoovering up the randoms and giving squads a fast way to get from A to B with only a few cert points. they were the next best thing to taking individual aircraft.

[morf]

I'd like to see a buggy that can lay mines - it can just zip through and lay them on the fly full-speed. Also, it would be immune to mines.

Wouldn't mind seeing one with a huge flamethrower mounted to the top too.

[Canaris]

Fast moving vehicles, with various weapon systems, maybe 1 light machine gun and 1 heavy weapons pod(not to big heavy weapon), that can double for a light troop transport. Multi roll like the military Humvee, that's how I envisage the PS buggies like the Marauder

[SteinB]

In addition to their combat roles I hope buggies can also be customized into utility vehicles for engineers and medics to use. Carry extra supplies or large deployables like ammo dumos or healing stationsthat can't be carried normally.

Being silly here...or even giant vehicle mounted long range glue guns and medical applicators!

[Knocky]

In addition to their combat roles I hope buggies can also be customized into utility vehicles for engineers and medics to use. Carry extra supplies or large deployables like ammo dumos or healing stationsthat can't be carried normally.

Being silly here...or even giant vehicle mounted long range glue guns and medical applicators!

You aren't being silly.....we still have not seen any way to hide a vehicle repair point.

So....repair points must be fast deploying if we cant hide em. Perhaps a Basilisk with dual glue guns instead of the cannons?

That would be cool.

[Skepsiis]

To me buggies should be all about speed, manoverability and the ability to traverse rough or dense terrain quickly.

The weapons they can mount should be fully customisable to av,ai and aa varients and should pack a solid punch imo. I would like to see the buggies have the sidegrade option for a far more stable gunning platform for the gunner with some shock absorbing tech or whatever so they can operate off road at speed relatively accurately compared to a tank.

They could do well in a harasment role and are good for hit and runs if undetected (as in not charging the front of a main battle line) depending on their weapon setup... Say burst type weapons with low accuracy for ai hit and run style and maybe something more like a laser guided, relatively high powered missle launcher for longer range av harasment.

But they would be quite fragile compared to tanks and not massively threatening to dug in heavy infantry with solid av to run them off with. I think they should also have a smallish amount of ammunition due to their physical size and would need to scurry off to rearm more often than heavier classes of vehicle.

I would also think it would be cool to see them bring unique vehicle abilities to the battlefield that could prove very useful as part of a larger group or encourage different playstyles like being able to create radar ghosts that look like a few tanks, long range aircraft detection, a missle lock scrambler or adding enemy tracers to nearby friendlies huds so they can find them because of an onboard projectile tracking computer.

I loved driving and gunning buggies in planetside (especially driving the thresher and gunning the enforcer) but I think they need a more defined and specialised role if they are going to be added to planetside 2.

[BorisBlade]

I actually was about to start up a thread on buggies. I'm a huge fan if they are done right and was always sad that the PS buggies (except for the skyguard which im excluding from this convo) were badly designed and never fixed.

Buggies should still be a great option even if you can get tanks too. In ps1, thats never the case, tanks kill infantry, ground vehicles, and aircraft faster and live literally 4-5x longer. The speed difference is minor and doesnt make up for it in the least. 9mph (15kph) speed difference between the tanks and buggies is laughable. You need at minimum +50% more speed on the buggies over the fastest tank. On top of that a turbo feature much like the afterburners of ps1. Without a lot more speed the much lower armor just means you die a ton more. Handling must be top notch as well with some "shock absorbers" for weapons to help stabilize them a bit when moving that fast over terrain. If it handles like crap like ps1 (except the thresher which was the perfect buggy except for its crap weapon and overly low armor, mainly due to the hover givin it insane maneuverability and handling), then it will be pointless to be fast.

Options available to the buggies such as salvo modes to dump a ton of damage out at once then run away while it reloads over a long delay to emphasize hit and run tactics. Short duration immunity shields for when you go in for a strike, or low strength slow recharging shields. Or options for immunities to mines, or sensor arrays, or jammers. Maybe weapon systems with "heat" bars on em that allow for super charged fire rates that cause heat and will not allow you to fire once you max out the bar. Allows for less instant damage than salvo modes but more than normal firing in the short term, but less for sustained fire runs. Again, just more options. Also the options would of course be exclusive so you would have to give up having one thing for others. But the options would be somethin you only get with buggies making them useful over tanks for some situations and still viable in a fight.

Scouting vehicles sounds great, but in a game never works, never did in ps1 anyway. The vehicles must have a place in a fight. They need the platform and the weapons to deliver the damage. Whether that be in hit and run, or in tryin to stay at range and do it while bobbing and weaving or whatever. If the options are there and the systems there in place, they will serve a very fun role. They cant hold ground or break thru lines like a tank, but they can weave in and out and play guerilla tactics and be tons of fun if the correct vision gets applied.

And for the love of god, these have to be vehicles where the pilot only drives, no gun. You should be moving crazy fast and therefore unable to drive well and gun at the same time, plus it would just be retarded anyway. (and i wanna drive one, sounds like tons of fun, but i dont wanna have to gun too, turning me into a half ass pilot when i do.)

[CplVars]

The Marauder was the shit. Riding around Oshur with like 3 of em working in tandem was great fun murdering barney's and smurfs.

That said, I'd like them to be as fun as the Marauder. :)

[Fate]

I don't think air has the monopoly on quick assault. We know there'll be air-unfriendly areas, as well as times when there's simply too much AA around for air to get close, but I like the idea of expanding buggies' role to equipment transport/possibly a MAX transport (and I do mean a MAX).

Edit: Or maybe I don't. We still don't know enough about them to say.

Too much AA? Doesn't sound like PlanetSide at all.

[Kouza]

IMHO- Let them play more roles.. Trade their lack of armor for- Increased trunk room to lay down mines, speed (duh), and the ability to play all three major roles (AV, AA, AI).. However, they are weak for a reason. They don`t take AV, or Tank shells.

I liked the mine laying idea...