New Tank Profiles

[igster]

Higby has tweeted the eye level profiles of the 3 empire tanks and it's brought up quite a big concern for me.

http://yfrog.com/nvdqqwgj

http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg859/scaled.php?tn=0&server=859&filename=dqqwg.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

Now if you look at the profiles of the 3 tanks, the magrider looks to be the tallest but also to present the largest target profile of the three. Especially when you consider the tanks coming head on with each other - the vanguard will present a tiny profile.

As (nearly) a full time magrider gunner, to me, I'd want to be in a vanguard which will be the hardest to hit and would pity the poor fool in the magrider. I completely understand the need to differentiate the shapes on the tanks. Also I have to say that they all look brilliant. However, the magrider to me looks like it will be very very easy to hit if the profiles all look as they do in this picture.

In addition, the magrider is shot almost straight on in the picture and still presents the biggest profile. I would imagine that the differences would be even more pronounced if the shot was taken from ahead of the prowler or the vanguard.

At least make it so its not the tallest of the three tanks as well as the widest! (Is this related to it actually being the same height withtout the additional 'hover') Dont forget that if an enemy tank hits the ground under the tank, then this will also be almost a direct hit with the splash damage, therefore the magrider should be not as tall as the other 2 tanks so as to provide an equivalent target area.

Much love to the dev team - its all looking well hot! :)

[Heaven]

Well I have seen another picture posted on here where the vanguard looks bigger than all of the tanks, I think its just the angle the picture is taken from. I wouldnt worry about the size of the tanks though because you can change the stats of you tank anyway, such as making it go faster with less armour or slower with heavy armour. Am pretty sure all three tanks will pack a punch in their own unique way.

[SKYeXile]

I think the issues you raised are of little concern.

fights will breakout in 1 of 2 ways.


long range slugfest.
In the case the magrider while its profile maybe higher, its gun will fire straight, it also have latteral movement. a VG or prower cannot move sideways unless it faces side on, in which case it exposed its side armour which will be presumably weaker and if not, its a much larger target.

brawl.
While i would have to presume the magrider can go asfast in reverse as it does foward or atleast 70% speed, otherwise it would be unable to retreat and shoot, like the VG and prowler can. If thats the case, and the tanks breakout into a brawl, the magrider will be the most manoeuvrable, its strongest front amour will always be facing the enemy tanks, and its smallest profile. it will also have less issues running into trees like a VG or prowler driver that needs to gun the main gun and look in another direction.

the magrider also hovers, presumably damage is based of the radius to an explosion, a direct hit should do more damage than a splash shot underneath it, i think the magrider would be the hardest to hit, especially since they're aiming with arcing shots.

Pretty positive that tanks will have multiple hit boxes and the sides and rear will be weaker than the front, but also its a possibily they could factor slopped armour in penetration, in which case, the magrider is far superior....I would have to have that baby in world of tanks. It does have hulldown issues though.

[Alanim]

It's only the tallest on a small fraction of the tank, and even then the shape will actually make it the hardest to hit, you can't aim too low and you can't aim too high. Also I assume it will have the highest mobility which should make it a bit harder to hit, and harder to catch on the side where it becomes the easiest to hit.

The Prowler with its compact box design looks to be the only one that doesn't really look easier to hit its side then its front.

^

Pretty much what he said.

[igster]

I have to say that I think it is really quite important the profile that a tank presents on the battlefield. From the footage we've seen, the arcs are much much flatter in ps2.

The balance between the tanks in PS1 is actually outrageous with the magrider being by far the strongest tank due to the fact that it has a very narrow profile and direct fire over the vanguard and prowler which suffer somewhat from being tracked vehicles with quite large arcs of fire with the prowler suffering quite markedly due to the fact that it has the biggest profile and is in my opinion the easiest tank to hit and also takes 3 people to gun effectively.

I did a bit of photoshopping and the results made me a bit worried, especially considering that the shot was taken almost directly ahead of the magrider and the prowler and vanguard were to one side which would reasonably make you think that the length of the latter two would make them appear slightly wider since they are at an angle.

http://www.containsnuts.eu\images\TankComparisonWidth.gif
http://www.containsnuts.eu\images\TankComparisonHeight.gi f

The height isnt too much of an issue, however, the width difference makes me wanna cry. The magrider goes from having the slimmest head on profile in PS1 to the fattest in PS2.

[Fate]

God, can't we just wait for a fucking Beta before bitching about how unbalanced an unreleased game with zero stat support might be? For all you fucking now the Magrider is now packing the equivalent of the Peregrine Particle cannon. It might fire Zeus's fucking lightning bolt for all you know. SHUT THE FUCK UP BEFORE YOU EVER PLAY THE GAME. FUCK THE PLANETSIDE PLAYERBASE PISSES ME THE FUCK OFF.

[igster]

If you don't have constructive feedback Darkfate, you dont have to post - nerdrage all you like but just dont post it.
I have every right to post. The playerbase also pisses me off because of asshole over reactions from idiots like yourself.
As I've said, the tanks look amazing and I'm very excited to try them out.
However, I was just questioning the size of the profile which is not a gameplay issue that we can't assess before we start playing the beta but is a very obvious fact that you can judge somewhat from the screenshots.
Now please crawl back into your box - this is a discussion forum. Not a flame forum. I'm perfectly within my rights to discuss planetside 2 here without being judged or flamed by you.

In addition - I'm not bitching at anyone. I'm just raising a question to discuss with my fellow players.

Pack in the crap that has infected the planetside 1 community where the only ones that post seem to be adolescent nerd ragers that try and inflict some kind of flame war on every forum post that is ever posted. kk thx bye.

[Kouza]

Ahh yes... The VS... Complaining about Balance before the game even comes out...

Lets look at this from a logical perspective.... Your going to cry imbalance... I want my prowler to have fucking pontoons on the side.

GTFO, and prepare to complain about the next release.

.... Love you.

[Canaris]

If I could make 1 single change to the Prowler it would be to replace the current turret with that of something akin to the Merkava tank. You'd have to put twin barrels on it but I think profile wise it would suit the Prowlers look and style.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRm8KztMjCfnTyxjwV2VOZpZfmepw9HS MtArPbnoWn5qlQtGbJV1Q

http://olive-drab.com/images/merkava_mk1_idf_700.jpg

I just find something a bit wrong with the cannons being off center on the current version of the prowler.

[Coreldan]

What is this blasphemy?!

Vanguard should be a monster compared to the other two. Fix it right now, Higby! :D

[Canaris]

What is this blasphemy?!

Vanguard should be a monster compared to the other two. Fix it right now, Higby! :D

it is

http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg877/scaled.php?tn=0&server=877&filename=g7gfw.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

[Coreldan]

it is

http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg877/scaled.php?tn=0&server=877&filename=g7gfw.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

Cheers, almost lost my sleep.

[Shogun]

i should cry our now, that the vanguard is far too easy to hit from aircraft because it is so big seen from overhead!

but i´m no vs crybaby that wants to have invisible, undetectable, invincible supertanks with ueber-instafrag weapons and cry about it until everything of the other fractions gets nerfed to oblivion.

why are so many vs incapable of understanding the concept of balance and that advantages always have some downsides, too? this is no sam serious game where everything besides the player is cannonfodder! your cannonfodder are actual players that want to have fun as well...

[Lorgarn]

God, can't we just wait for a fucking Beta before bitching about how unbalanced an unreleased game with zero stat support might be? For all you fucking now the Magrider is now packing the equivalent of the Peregrine Particle cannon. It might fire Zeus's fucking lightning bolt for all you know. SHUT THE FUCK UP BEFORE YOU EVER PLAY THE GAME. FUCK THE PLANETSIDE PLAYERBASE PISSES ME THE FUCK OFF.

You are mistaken.

This is not bitching about balance. This is caring so much about the game that it makes me proud to be a part of this community. The "Planetside playerbase" as you call them, have quite little details to discuss, yet they always find ways in all kinds of areas to give constructive criticism and feedback.

Developers are always interested in the concerns of the playerbase, as they are often just as dedicated as the developers themselves. This is, in a way, a part of Beta testing. Since the purpose of Beta testing is also about; you ultimately having concerns, you end up testing things around those concerns, you hopefully end up bringing valueble results, criticism and feedback back in a constructive format such as this. Even if the concerns were found to be "flawed" or "unfounded" (for the lack of a better word), they still bring valueble information to the table and I'm sure the developers would appreciate it as much as any other kind of feedback.

For all you fucking now the Magrider is now packing the equivalent of the Peregrine Particle cannon.

And you make it sound like this would be seen as a good thing in the eyes of the OP and other participants of this discussion? You are clearly wrong and you might need to ponder this a bit. As a personal exercise, find where you made the mistake, try to correct it. :)

[CutterJohn]

Size can be balanced with manueverability and hitpoints.

[igster]

I am in no way bitching or whining about imbalance in any way! I'm trying to have a mature discussion about it.

I think the flattening out of the arc of fire is great for example - since I think this gave prowlers and vanguards a noticeable disadvantage at medium/longer ranges in PS1.

Evening out all tanks to have 2 man crews - (if this is going to happen) would, I think, be a very positive move. In many situations tank v tank, you can get the better of 2 tanks crewed by 6 people in situations where you know that if the same 6 people were in 3 tanks you'd have died very very quickly.

I also think all three tanks look fantastic.

I do want to maintain differences between the tanks - I really like that the prowler is fast and has a higher rate of fire. No complaints from me about differences or even different strengths and weaknesses, e.g. higher armour options as well as specialisation into different roles. I was originally TR until recently and in my heart, I love the prowler to bits. I actually want to ensure that all three tanks are competitive against each other since I firmly believe the VS tank is too powerful now and don't want it to be quite so powerful in PS2.

Something like the profile of a target is just something quite important imo. A max is easier to hit than a soldier. A tank is easier to hit than a buggy. Largely because of the size of the target (you do have to factor in speed of movement to some extent).

It may be a very simple distance/perspective issue in the original screenshot that made the mag present a 20-25% wider profile than the other two tanks from the front. However, I wouldnt have thought the angle of the shot would have presented quite that big a difference.

The Prowler is approx 620 pixels wide, Vanguard 670 pixels and the mag is abiyt 810 pixels wide. Judging from the original image, the vanguard appears to be parked at a more pronounced angle than the other two which would make it narrower head on.

If one of the tanks did present a larger profile from the air or from the side for example, and was easier to hit from above, I would want to discuss it no matter which tank it was.

I do find that many tank engagements in the current game do tend to take place from a distance with one side of the other either retreating or advancing into a situation. As in the sea battles of long ago, ships tend to always try and present the smallest profile to the enemy and therefore don't often run broadsides to an enemy.

[EASyEightyEight]

Hah, the prowler is positively dinky!

The Vanguard is looking pretty beast. Going to be fun blowing that bitch apart.

People are just going to have to get used to the new Mag-Rider though. With all of the advantages it brings over other tanks (maneuverability also equating to keeping front armor facing the enemy, linear firing arc) being small on top of that would have been really imbalancing.

The TR will be about speed over armor, and they don't get to keep the tank facing the enemy if they're also attempting to dodge that foes shots. It makes sense for them to have a smaller profile to be additionally harder to hit. Damn near looks like a light tank, or at least getting there.

[Ailos]

As (nearly) a full time magrider gunner, to me, I'd want to be in a vanguard which will be the hardest to hit and would pity the poor fool in the magrider.


The vanguard ALWAYS pitied the fools. I dunno where your illusion of may superiority comes from, but I had never lost a one on one fight against a magrider OR a prowler. Yeah, it was never point an shoot, but no tank should be. It takes skill, and that's more than I could say about most of the VS I've ever met.


I Love the way the vanny is looking though. Its side profile looks a little funky, but that's okay. Its got the trademark cannon to wipe the floor with.

[Hamma]

Let's get back on topic folks.. it's a valid discussion.

When I see that profile of the Magrider all I think about is Independence Day. :lol:

[SuperMorto]

Few points about this picture!...............

HOLY SHIT HAVE YOU SEEN THE BACKGROUND?

Look at it, its amazing, the diversity of the continents is a 1000% better than PS1. I can wait to discover all of them!

Now about the tanks,

1. The NC and TR are tanks. The VS fighter is not a tank, its a hovering cannon so you cant add it to the equation, its not a tank, tanks don't float on water that's for sure.

2. The NC tank is bigger but designed for punch! with its long barrel and long body firing larger shells than the TR, the smaller fatter TR tank is designed for speed and speed of shots, small fat body for speed and stability.

3. The VS fighter is designed with magic fairy dust and thats it. :)

Edit* It also looks to me like the TR tank has rubber/rubber padded tracks, while the NC has large Tank tracks. And the VS one has........................erm fresh air! :D

[TheRagingGerbil]

Few points about this picture!...............

HOLY SHIT HAVE YOU SEEN THE BACKGROUND?

THIS!

That tower in the background is awesome. I'm guessing its the new airtower from the landing pads?

And I agree, terrain is looking amazing!

[igster]

After doing a bit of editing of the overhead shot, I'm pretty much convinced that it was just a wierd angle on the straight on image. I've done some ponsing about with the overhead image of the three tanks and although the magrider is the widest of the 3 it looks much better in comparison to the other 2 from the top down profile.

http://www.containsnuts.eu/images/TankComparisonWidth3.gif

I took the reference points as the centres of the tanks, assuming they were all lined up since perspective will obviously make a brick shape look larger at the front than the back whilst a teardrop shape will bulge at widest point.

[ThGlump]

VS have one big disadvantage. Their gun is too low compared to others. Not only it cant shoot that easily over obstacles (most of his profile hidden), your viewpoint is above gun and not in same height as in van/prowler. So you can see over obstacle ant aim, but you will only hit ground.

[Justaman]

you have to remember, the magrider is pretty much lacking a wheel base, skirting, and undercaridge. It has a smaller profile than the other 2, it just looks big because of its none qube shape. IMO, it looks like its the hardest to hit thanks to its curves.

[acosmo]

it would be cool if the angle of incoming shots affected their damage.

[Arrow]

Will you be qq'ing as you hover strafe over the water while shooting 5 helpless vannys or prowlers? I think not.

And I agree it would be awesome if they had a tank damage model similar to red orchestra were at certain angles your armor could deflect shots

[acosmo]

Will you be qq'ing as you hover strafe over the water while shooting 5 helpless vannys or prowlers? I think not.

And I agree it would be awesome if they had a tank damage model similar to red orchestra were at certain angles your armor could deflect shots

look at indar. there's virtually no water in critical areas.

[PoisonTaco]

The VR tank reminds me of the PAC tank from Battlefield 2142. The one the Russians get.

[EASyEightyEight]

look at indar. there's virtually no water in critical areas.

I would certainly hope Indar isn't the only continent in game, nor would any continents after it be desert as well ;)

Now... just imagine if the Forgelight engine allowed for water to freeze over quickly in arctic regions, and one of the most accessible ways to assault some bases was to cross a lake or river? Just shoot the ice, and watch the enemy sink, only for the hole to be plugged a few moments later like nothing happened :eek:

[Ailos]

3. The VS fighter is designed with magic fairy dust and thats it. :)

Edit* It also looks to me like the TR tank has rubber/rubber padded tracks, while the NC has large Tank tracks. And the VS one has........................erm fresh air! :D

Isn't that the point?

look at indar. there's virtually no water in critical areas.

I think we see pictures of Indar simply because that was the first continent they made, and that's the first one they decided to disclose to us. SOE is probably following the mentality that "well, there's no use in hiding it form them, they already know about Indar, might as well show all of it." That doesn't mean there aren't other continents like Hossin or Cyssor where having the ability to circumvent a bridge can make all the difference.

The VR tank reminds me of the PAC tank from Battlefield 2142. The one the Russians get.
Me too. And in my opinion, that tank was the better one of the two. By that logic, NERF TEH FAGRIDER! (No, I'm kidding. That's what we'll find out in Beta.)

I would certainly hope Indar isn't the only continent in game, nor would any continents after it be desert as well ;)

Now... just imagine if the Forgelight engine allowed for water to freeze over quickly in arctic regions, and one of the most accessible ways to assault some bases was to cross a lake or river? Just shoot the ice, and watch the enemy sink, only for the hole to be plugged a few moments later like nothing happened :eek:

That would make for some BITCHIN sneak attacks. Especially if the ice thickness determines what weight can be on it, so something like an ATV or a deliverer can cross over before my beast of a vanguard can.

[BorisBlade]

I have to say that I think it is really quite important the profile that a tank presents on the battlefield. From the footage we've seen, the arcs are much much flatter in ps2.

The balance between the tanks in PS1 is actually outrageous with the magrider being by far the strongest tank due to the fact that it has a very narrow profile and direct fire over the vanguard and prowler which suffer somewhat from being tracked vehicles with quite large arcs of fire with the prowler suffering quite markedly due to the fact that it has the biggest profile and is in my opinion the easiest tank to hit and also takes 3 people to gun effectively.

Well you forget to mention tho that the magrider is also the weakest firepower and armor wise. It also its a zillion times worse versus infantry. (prowler and van are godly infantry killers). If you get close, a vanguard will kill a mag. And then comes the prowler. yeah its bigger and needs a third gunner sometimes. But it has better armor than a mag, and just the main gun alone is a TON more dps than a magrider or vanguard. Add in the 15mm on top of that and its actually pretty crazy how much dps the prowler can do, you are gettin near double territory. All the factors together tho do balance it all out. The only stand out being the manpower issue on the prowler.

Honestly it would be better if all tanks were 3man like that, but instead the second gunner would get a better weapon than that 15mm making it worth filling all the time without doubt.

As far as profile, yeah the mag is at a disadvantage due to sheer size and its hover making it even bigger. (the other two seem to balance out overall) Honestly tho, if they are adding specific armor to various parts of the tanks they can easily enough add more onto the mag to compensate. Really tho they shoulda left the mag as the faster more agile one and made it a bit smaller. Having the TR as fastest is just odd.

[acosmo]

Having the TR as fastest is just odd.

this more than anything else. i agree with the rest though

[Canaris]

this more than anything else. i agree with the rest though

Red Onez GO FASTER, that's never been disputed by anyone ;)

[Magpie]

it is

http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg877/scaled.php?tn=0&server=877&filename=g7gfw.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

TR tank hahaha looks like alittle cute toy tank

NC tank just looks BEAST! go's off with a bang

VS tank is nice, looks like the most visible tho

good job PS2 team

[Graywolves]

It's only taller because it hovers and even then the only bit that is taller is the gun. Not to mention that it is sleeker and less boxy, simple geometry dictates that there is less to shoot on the magrider.

[Xyntech]

Prowler is little girly tank.

Isn't the Magrider supposed to still have the lightest armor though? Seems a little odd making it be such a large target, even if it's geometry helps a little.

[bjorntju1]

Dat Vanguard.

[Tikuto]

Where's the image of the three aircraft? I think I noticed difference between Concept Scythe and that image's Scythe.

[Nobel]

Just bumping this to point out the Air Tower in the Background.

[inigma]

I wonder if shells will be able to bounce off the angles of the armor like some shells do in World of Tanks.

[captainbaka]

Atleast from what i can tell the second set of pictures of the three tanks looks a lot diffferent then the head on one. Maybe its just the angle but they could be different builds so i wouldnt really use the second one to compare size versus the first set.

[ratfusion]

As suggested earlier, the magriders sloped armor will be a far greater asset than the size is a problem, IF armor penetration/bouncing is modeled.

I'm far more concerned with the prowlers odd turret ring. The structure doesn't look large enough to house the reloading mechanism, and it is so far off-center you would think the moment induced when firing would damage it.

I realize this is all design decisions to make it different from the others. I'm happy that the twin cannon is coming back, however impractical it may be. The off-center turret is just unaesthetic and unappealing to me. I also realize I shouldn't complain as a TR player, it's a smaller target right now.

[Exoskeleton]

The bad thing about the Magrider is that its main cannon is situated too low, which means it won't benefit much from terrain cover-and-shoot tactics. While the other tanks need visibility only for their turrets, the Magrider would have to come out full size. Hopefully this serious weakness will be compensated by an excellent maneuverability, high damage and decent armor.

[Hmr85]

The bad thing about the Magrider is that its main cannon is situated too low, which means it won't benefit much from terrain cover-and-shoot tactics. While the other tanks need visibility only for their turrets, the Magrider would have to come out full size. Hopefully this serious weakness will be compensated by an excellent maneuverability, high damage and decent armor.

Lets assume the Mag is the same as the one in PS1. The mag always had fantastic maneuverability that's where you will make up the ground on the other tanks. As for the damage it was decent especially if they keep that direct fire it had but it was never the best at packing the biggest punch.That belongs to the Vanguard. Trust me what it lacks in punch it will more than make up for in maneuverability on the battlefield. I wouldn't sweat it.

[Canaris]

I realize this is all design decisions to make it different from the others. I'm happy that the twin cannon is coming back, however impractical it may be. The off-centre turret is just unaesthetic and unappealing to me. I also realize I shouldn't complain as a TR player, it's a smaller target right now.


lol that's what my inner soldier told me when I first saw the Prowler, "smaller target harder to hit" but I also agree that the off centre cannons looks strange, that's why I suggested more of a Merkava tank style turret. It would almost keep the same profile, just a little more hight and area increase of the turret. I would be willing to sacrifice that for a more symmetrical and centred gun barrels.

[texico]

God, can't we just wait for a fucking Beta before bitching about how unbalanced an unreleased game with zero stat support might be? For all you fucking now the Magrider is now packing the equivalent of the Peregrine Particle cannon. It might fire Zeus's fucking lightning bolt for all you know. SHUT THE FUCK UP BEFORE YOU EVER PLAY THE GAME. FUCK THE PLANETSIDE PLAYERBASE PISSES ME THE FUCK OFF.


Poetry.





Is the Mag still going to be able to strafe? Because that's an important point regarding its width. Maybe it's a little bit wider to compensate for the fact that it can move sideways and would therefore be harder than usual to hit head-on.

[ringring]

Lets assume the Mag is the same as the one in PS1. The mag always had fantastic maneuverability that's where you will make up the ground on the other tanks. As for the damage it was decent especially if they keep that direct fire it had but it was never the best at packing the biggest punch.That belongs to the Vanguard. Trust me what it lacks in punch it will more than make up for in maneuverability on the battlefield. I wouldn't sweat it.
The PS1 mag was pretty good when the two guns were on the same target and as it hovered it could do that pretty easily.

I wouldn't worry about the mag, the devs will balance out the armour and damage.

The key ingrediant is that it is direct fire. It will have an advantage at longer ranges and the hover means it is a steady firing platform.

Long range fighting usually means the tanks can more easily run away and tank kills require a level of inattention/stupidy on behalf of your opponent.

I still think it's going to be an easier tank to use than either the prowler or vanguard.

The prowler is going to be faster and more lightly armoured apparently. I reckon it's going to have to use hit and run tactics. Sneak up from behind a hill, get the kills and run away quickly. It may not be a good tank killer though, because of it's lack of armour.

[Draep]

They don't need to change anything. Can't fucking WAIT to play this game.