Flail Love

[DayOne]

The Flail. I've heard rumours that they may nerf the Flail, but why not make it more like proper artillery? I.e. a suppressive weapon. Due to SOE's plans to make Planetside more like a modern FPS I assume that means reducing kill time. This ties in nicely with the act of making the flail more suppressive as you wouldn't just be able to run past its shells. You could keep enemies huddled in the corners of their base waiting for the loud noises to go away.

How to do this? Simple! Reduce the accuracy, increase AOE and general damage. This would make for one Flail alone being pretty ineffective. But imagine a battery of Flails all firing coordinated shots called in by a forward observation post.

Mmmmm...tasty strategy.

[acosmo]

not nerf, they removed the flail. higby said they only want direct combat.

[DayOne]

not nerf, they removed the flail. higby said they only want direct combat.

I though explosions hitting you in the face was pretty direct.

[CutterJohn]

I though explosions hitting you in the face was pretty direct.

Neither random explosions from the sky, nor pulling the trigger while pointing at a waypoint in the sky are very compelling gameplay features imo.

I approve of the idea that in order to shoot stuff you have to show yourself and face return fire.

[SKYeXile]

Vvn, reasons why later.

[DayOne]

I approve of the idea that in order to shoot stuff you have to show yourself and face return fire.

Hmmm, short range mortars perhaps? A mortar launching vehicle? Same ideas just much shorter range.

[acosmo]

Neither random explosions from the sky, nor pulling the trigger while pointing at a waypoint in the sky are very compelling gameplay features imo.

I approve of the idea that in order to shoot stuff you have to show yourself and face return fire.

no

[Sirisian]

Hmmm, short range mortars perhaps? A mortar launching vehicle? Same ideas just much shorter range.
You might like this thread (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?p=586245).

[acosmo]

You might like this thread (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?p=586245).

lol ever notice how threads in the idea vault are rarely touched, let alone read?

my latest thread (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38569)

[NCLynx]

Jeez oh man, I hope they add in SOME sort of mortar. How ELSE am I supposed to sit behind things and pad my k/d ratio?

Hope they don't introduce any type of mortar fire.

[DayOne]

You might like this thread (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?p=586245).

Kind of but more player controlled. So one guy would operate and another would have eyes on the target saying if the shots are falling short or to the side. As it would be very inaccurate and slow firing (manual reload?) you would NEED at least 3-4 guys to be at all effective, plus one more to call targets.

[acosmo]

Jeez oh man, I hope they add in SOME sort of mortar. How ELSE am I supposed to sit behind things and pad my k/d ratio?

Hope they don't introduce any type of mortar fire.

i sure hope that they do.

[DayOne]

Jeez oh man, I hope they add in SOME sort of mortar. How ELSE am I supposed to sit behind things and pad my k/d ratio?

Hope they don't introduce any type of mortar fire.

The whole point is to SUPPRESS. You won't get killed unless you're a complete moron and start dancing about in it. It enables you to keep enemy forces at bay if you are defending a location or getting more men to storm the place.

[Vash02]

Away with you spawn of satan!

[Ailos]

Liberator bombing runs anyone? Get 4+ libs lined up to carpet a CY. Doesn't get much more supprssive than that.

[Vancha]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/viewer.php?img_id=1823

Higby said those Prowlers are "well within striking distance" (of the base).

There's your artillery.

[Bags]

Mortar are so unfun in BF3, no indirect crap in ps2

[acosmo]

Mortar are so unfun in BF3, no indirect crap in ps2

indirect adds more depth to the game.

[Sirisian]

Liberator bombing runs anyone? Get 4+ libs lined up to carpet a CY. Doesn't get much more supprssive than that.
The liberator is a gunship now. They pretty much said they're not adding bombers to Planetside 2.

This was another artillery idea I had to replace the flail (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37428).

[Grognard]

I think I might like to see a short range indirect fire deployable (engineering?)... This light artillery / mortar device could have three modes...

1. Small radius indirect anti-infantry, like a long-range non-mobile thumper.
2. Smoke launcher, for concealed movement to contact.
3. Fascam launcher...

Boy oh boy would this need to be balanced well... but I would F'n love it...


PS... anything to get rid of the original f(l)ail...

[SKYeXile]

As I was saying before my iphone deleted my whole post...VVN.

Somebody posted recently a quote by a TF2 developer that players need to be engaged with their enemy, or a kill just feesl cheap, people don't like dying to somebody when they cant do nothing to avoid getting killed. Getting killed by somebody you cant attack or even see? Pretty lame and its a quick way to lose players.

Flails, sure they would add more depth to the game, but so would BFR's, an economy and player housing, it does not mean it should be in Planetside 2. You forget this is a FPS, it is meant to reward, skill, tactics and teamwork. A flail achieves none of that. Especially not when you point it at a CY, tape the mouse down and go AFK for 40min and come back with 40 kills...

In a courtyard that could very well be filled with 1000 people, you will hit something with flail spam, could be a lone dude, could be a squad, could be a platoon...OF FRIENDLIES.

It looks like tank will be able to fill the roll of artillery, at least they will need to be in some sort of view range and require some good aiming to hit anything.

[NewSith]

No to indirect fire! Screw sniper rifles, grenade launchers and DoT grenades! No to bombers and long-range ballistics! Go-go DutySide!

[Sabrak]

What about a sidegrade for ES tanks to turn main/secondary weapon into some sort of medium-range howitzer?

Honestly, I believe that if you want to make it feel like a real battlefield (no, I don't mean "Battlefield"), there need to be some kind of way to bombard enemy lines, either with a bomber (and the Lib won't do it anymore), or with artillery.

[Vancha]

indirect adds more depth to the game.

Sewers have depth.

[Canaris]

You''ll just have to work for a OS like everyone else

[Bogusheadbox]

As I was saying before my iphone deleted my whole post...VVN.

Somebody posted recently a quote by a TF2 developer that players need to be engaged with their enemy, or a kill just feesl cheap, people don't like dying to somebody when they cant do nothing to avoid getting killed. Getting killed by somebody you cant attack or even see? Pretty lame and its a quick way to lose players.

Flails, sure they would add more depth to the game, but so would BFR's, an economy and player housing, it does not mean it should be in Planetside 2. You forget this is a FPS, it is meant to reward, skill, tactics and teamwork. A flail achieves none of that. Especially not when you point it at a CY, tape the mouse down and go AFK for 40min and come back with 40 kills...

In a courtyard that could very well be filled with 1000 people, you will hit something with flail spam, could be a lone dude, could be a squad, could be a platoon...OF FRIENDLIES.

It looks like tank will be able to fill the roll of artillery, at least they will need to be in some sort of view range and require some good aiming to hit anything.

This post makes me think you have not played much of planetside 1, have forgotten what it takes to use a flail, or the flail has become god since i gave up planetside 1 due to failing numbers here in UK.

I really think you are talking a bit of garbage with this reply

The flail took the qualities of skill and team work.

When i used it, it was the most dangerous craft to use. (dangeous for the user)

Here are the reasons it was dangerous.

1. Not manouverable and not a lot of armour.
2. If you just taped down your mouse button - you were sure to have aircraft on you in minutes as they just follow the volley to where you are shooting and if they spot you, you were toast.
3. If you just spam anywhere (especially a courtyard that your friendlies are invading) it is the quickest way to get yourself grief locked.

When i used it, it took a lot of skill.

Here are the reasons it took skill.

1. for it to be effective, you had to co-ordinate with a cloaker or scouter (preferably a cloaker) who would have to
(a) Scout the enemy
(b) Lase the impact spot
2. You would have to co-ord with cr5's your fire mission so that friendlies knew what was coming and to avoid friendly fire (though you always had people that rushed in no matter what (rambo stylee) and we had to abort with frantic calls from cr5's

3. You had to position the craft in a point that provided you the correct trajectory to get the ammo where you needed it to be. SOmetimes this took a couple of movments. And after the first test volley, if you had to move, the enemy knew what was coming and were prepared for it.

So, the flail was weak, not manouverable, took skill and teamwork and you think that doesn't belong on a game that to an extent simulates a battlefield... My mind truly boggles.

You and others make mention of mortars and artillary in games such as TF2 and BF3, both of which have incredibly small maps in comparison to what planetside 1 offered. And i can agree that it would suck on those games. But those maps are way too small to incoroporate arty in any way shape of fasion.

However, when you are talking about a propper sized map with varied terrain and multiple fronts. Then yes, arty works well as a game mechanic and does give more interesting and varied gameplay. If you need a game to compare the use of arty with, try Steel beasts or arma (1 or 2) and that may give you a better idea of its usage.

BUt please, please please, stop making references to what does not work in a very limited game like TF and Battlefield and think it applies to this mechanic.

Just to porve it is not a super UBER weapon of spamming goodness. When i played PS1 there were very very very few users of the flail, as they required too much co-ordination and a lot of people like to play like they do on Battlefield and TF, to lone wolf and rambo and don't want to use tactics and co-ordination.

[Fate]

I think everyone forgets that shooters are supposed to be fun. How much fun is it to die a cheater not on your screen? Why should we give other players a means to kill us without them taking a risk? Reality is one thing, fun is something else.

[SKYeXile]

This post makes me think you have not played much of planetside 1, have forgotten what it takes to use a flail, or the flail has become god since i gave up planetside 1 due to failing numbers here in UK.

I really think you are talking a bit of garbage with this reply

The flail took the qualities of skill and team work.

When i used it, it was the most dangerous craft to use.

Here are the reasons it was dangerous.

1. Not manouverable and not a lot of armour.
2. If you just taped down your mouse button - you were sure to have aircraft on you in minutes as they just follow the volley to where you are shooting and if they spot you, you were toast.
3. If you just spam anywhere (especially a courtyard that your friendlies are invading) it is the quickest way to get yourself grief locked.

When i used it, it took a lot of skill.

Here are the reasons it took skill.

1. for it to be effective, you had to co-ordinate with a cloaker or scouter (preferably a cloaker) who would have to
(a) Scout the enemy
(b) Lase the impact spot
2. You would have to co-ord with cr5's your fire mission so that friendlies knew what was coming and to avoid friendly fire (though you always had people that rushed in no matter what (rambo stylee) and we had to abort with frantic calls from cr5's

3. You had to position the craft in a point that provided you the correct trajectory to get the ammo where you needed it to be. SOmetimes this took a couple of movments. And after the first test volley, if you had to move, the enemy knew what was coming and were prepared for it.

So, the flail was weak, not manouverable, took skill and teamwork and you think that doesn't belong on a game that to an extent simulates a battlefield... My mind truly boggles.

You and others make mention of mortars and artillary in games such as TF2 and BF3, both of which have incredibly small maps in comparison to what planetside 1 offered. And i can agree that it would suck on those games. But those maps are way too small to incoroporate arty in any way shape of fasion.

However, when you are talking about a propper sized map with varied terrain and multiple fronts. Then yes, arty works well as a game mechanic and does give more interesting and varied gameplay. If you need a game to compare the use of arty with, try Steel beasts or arma (1 or 2) and that may give you a better idea of its usage.

BUt please, please please, stop making references to what does not work in a very limited game like TF and Battlefield and think it applies to this mechanic.

Just to porve it is not a super UBER weapon of spamming goodness. When i played PS1 there were very very very few users of the flail, as they required too much co-ordination and a lot of people like to play like they do on Battlefield and TF, to lone wolf and rambo and don't want to use tactics and co-ordination.

I cant even think of a place to begin to tear this post apart, so ill reply only to the first bold text: Do you have any Idea who I am?

[sylphaen]

This post makes me think you have not played much of planetside 1
LOL

Sky, you shouldn't have stopped trolling on forumside.
:rofl:

[SKYeXile]

LOL

Sky, you shouldn't have stopped trolling on forumside.
:rofl:

Seems that way, no respect these days I tells ya, what's happened since iv been gone? the flail started taking skill to use it seems? Shock and Awe them perhaps?

[Bogusheadbox]

I cant even think of a place to begin to tear this post apart, so ill reply only to the first bold text: Do you have any Idea who I am?



I have no idea who you are and if it makes you feel better, then, please... do tell :love:

I played Ps1 for a long time many moons back and that was the game mechanic i saw, experienced and enjoyed (for a very long time)

Please, if you found otherwise i am more than happy to hear of your experiences.

Maybe you could even throw in some more self gratification of who you are for other members whilst you are at it, but please don't be hurt if such bypasses me totally.

Regards,

Bogus

[acosmo]

When i played PS1 there were very very very few users of the flail, as they required too much co-ordination and a lot of people like to play like they do on Battlefield and TF, to lone wolf and rambo and don't want to use tactics and co-ordination.

and now you're talking to the next generation of highly immature, individualistic, it's all about me/i carry the team gamers.

[Bogusheadbox]

Hey i may be older than a lot of you on this board, but by no means call me mature!!!!

LOL

[Figment]

If you look at the attitude players have on Artillery in World of Tanks, where it is not by far as spammy as in PlanetSide, then you'll know that if you don't really need it, you can better leave it out.

The problem for people when faced with artillery is they can't figure out how to prevent getting hit by something they didn't see coming (although it is somewhat possible if you play artillery yourself now and then, as you learn which positions under normal circumstances can and can't be hit by artillery).

The problem is that it is perceived by these players as being out of their direct control. It is true they could eventually easily kill these artillery units once they hunt them down, the problem for them is either getting that far behind enemy lines alive (and stay alive long enough to do something), next to them never fully appreciating how many shots artillery misses or how much leading skill it requires to hit a moving target. Instead they just observe the decisive blow that completely screws them over or kills them instantly and this is what they base their attitude towards artillery on.

In PlanetSide, players had problems with artillery because of not being able to remove it at all: it camped your vehicle acquisition pad or your door exits without requiring a scout. Next also having to get through to the position of the artillery (which wasn't that hard), but then finding out it just retreats into a capital shield, is heavily protected (which is fair enough), but to top it all off, has a reacquisition time that is shorter than the time you need to get from your base to theirs. Meaning that by the time you got targeted, managed to both repair vpad and obtain a vehicle without dieing (or having to recall), tracked the artillery down and killed it (after which you usualy die), its vehicle timer had already expired for minutes and you find out it usualy had some buddies anyway and you can't take 'm all out.

Taking out artillery was therefore very unrewarding as it didn't fulfill the goal of removing it, ON TOP of the aforementioned "I can't do much about it".

[Bogusheadbox]

@ Figment

A nice read, and some good points there.

To top it off, there is not one single "Do YOU know who ** I ** am ??" statements in it.

You sir, have mastered the art of conversing in an adult manor. Too bad others are a little shy of such skills.

I do agree there were a few spots in PS1 that did not benefit from a flail. However if a flail has used an infiltrator to mark the target area then i have no problem with that.

Over short distances a flail can "walk" its fire to target without a spotter, and yes that does suck if the flail has that option of retreating behind a shield. But i would find these instances less common in a evenly matched battle. If a flail without support can dish out such devastation at close range and the enemy can't / won't do anything about it, then i am afraid the enemy were never in a position to actively keep that area as front line.

I do agree it sucks to be struck by something you didn't see (or as other posted) had no control of. But that leads into other areas as well. I have no control over the 2 snipers sharing target for insta kill at long ranges. I have no control of the tank that put a shell into my face from long distance that i didn't see. I have no congtrol over that hidden guy with a jackhammer instagibbing me as i walk round the corner. And i have no control of dying because my crap team-mate pilot was shot down and his burning wreck fell on my head. (god knows i have dropped a gal on a few enemies as well).

Its all part of the game. Yeah it does suck, but it also provides a bit of excitement as well.

But i can't help but laugh at all the guys that still stand in the courtyard, or continuously run into the coutyard after dying knowing full well that you are under arty attack. Its like running into a tr Locked down max with a pistol. Its not a very bright solution and then they whine that the arty is overpowered because they run into its fire. Its not like a flail can actively hunt out and attack a moving target....

Its the same with OS's. A lot of people (when i played) hated them and wanted them nerfed. But to OS, you had to be line of sight, relatively close and the OS took a decent amount of time to fire (which gave a really big warning).

The amount of times i saw people next to me stand still and go "ohhh Noze, i am being ganked bu uberz OS's" . Whilst i just stepped out of the firing line, and watched them frazzle, they then wrote hate spam accross all channels that OS's should be nerfed/removed from game.

And this is my point. Yes, its unfortunate to be taken out by something you didn't see coming. But to totally be overwhelmed by it CONSTANTLY is the players fault. In most battles there are different spawn areas in the vacinity as well as a long way away.

If a coutryard is being pounded, its not hard to go - hey look, he's firing from there.... Keep troops inside walls and main door and send a few squads to a different base to attack the area from a different direction which is not under fire.

Becuase, you have to remember.... If the enemy are poinding the courtyard so hard, that you cannot get out...... They sure as hell can't get in either until they stop firing.

That was a pretty simplistic generalisation. But if we want a simple shooter with simple war mechanics, then why not just have troop warfare over a very large city? Take away all the huge outdoor expanses and remove all vehicles. That way you can have a great urban close counter engagement game.

Would you like that, or something that more resembles a war?

[acosmo]

Would you like that, or something that more resembles a war?

i'll take the latter, thank you very much

[SKYeXile]

@ Figment

A nice read, and some good points there.

To top it off, there is not one single "Do YOU know who ** I ** am ??" statements in it.

You sir, have mastered the art of conversing in an adult manor. Too bad others are a little shy of such skills.


I'm not going to reply kindly to somebody with zero reading comprehension, the fact that you mentioned that i said TF2 had mortars and artillery, means not only did you not read my post, you have been living on the dark side of the moon for the last 5 years or so, BECAUSE TF2 DOES NOT HAVE ARTILLERY.

TBH i thought you were really just trolling, you said the fail takes skill, like 5 times in your post. heres how they work: you pull one off the pad...you setup in front of a vehicle repair silo, you fire like 2-3 shots to get your aim in, and you go AFK. there is no skill in flailing..maybe some complete minor teamwork in setting up the shots. But if thats what PS2 is going to consider teamwork, we best shut it down now.

Also you list a whole lot of things that, you believe to be random deaths, you got double teams by some snipers...you know coordinating and calling a target and firing at the same time...proper teamwork, and you got dead by an enemy you could see, plenty you could do about..shoot at them, break their COF, or dont break cover. you have plenty of control over not dying to gib shells dont out yourself on terrain that gives them an easy shot eg backing onto walls or a hill and then cert situational awareness.. and really getting gibbed by a jack hammer... do you go up the inside of stairway when facing NC?..in agile...? you deserve to die.

You have proved you're in experience and lack of knowledge of this game.
Remember that, its a game, its not a war simulator, its not meant to represent real life, war sucks. why dont we add proper nukes to the game to? make it more realistic, shit gets abit out of hand?... we'll just drop a nuke. Vaporise a continent, show them not to fuck with the U S of a. WINNING!

The flail is nether enjoyable to people getting fired at by it, be them friendly's, enemy's, the people dying to it..the only person getting any enjoyment out of it, is the guy in the fail, but thats only because hes alt tabbed rubbing himself off to some pregnant anal porn. since his presence once a fail is setup its utterly pointless...though in planetside 2 he could setup like 5 accounts, all with flails, REALLY START TEAMWORKING THEN!

Also, the other members know who I am, them having played Planetside for more than 20 minutes and all.

[VladePsyker]

why not make it a tactical weapon

wide AOE
very low damage
75% speed nerf to those inside the blast
disables consumables use e.g. medpacks

so it won't net you easy kills but could really help turn the tide on a pitched battle

[acosmo]

I'm not going to reply kindly to somebody with zero reading comprehension, you have been living on the dark side of the moon for the last 5 years or so, TBH i thought you were really just trolling, you deserve to die. You have proved you're in experience and lack of knowledge of this game. Also, the other members know who I am, them having played Planetside for more than 20 minutes and all.
cool story bro


Remember that, its a game, its not a war simulator, its not meant to represent real life, war sucks. why dont we add proper nukes to the game to? make it more realistic, shit gets abit out of hand?... we'll just drop a nuke. Vaporise a continent, show them not to fuck with the U S of a. WINNING
oh yeah. us should totally just nuke iran. straight of hurmuz shipping lane issues GONE.

[Bogusheadbox]

Ahhh Sky..... I was hoping that you could make it all the way through a retort without using the "know who I am".... But alas..... It just had to pop in there didn't it.

Also, the brevity of your post is akin to an age level that still uses clearasil on a daily basis inbetween OMGWTF comments in facebook.

So with that in mind, i will construct a response that hopefully you will understand and may serve as pleasant reading for others.

I'm not going to reply kindly to somebody with zero reading comprehension,

Actually sky, i read your post and have responded to it, surely that puts me above zero in the comprehension stakes[/QUOTE].

the fact that you mentioned that i said TF2 had mortars and artillery, means not only did you not read my post, you have been living on the dark side of the moon for the last 5 years or so, BECAUSE TF2 DOES NOT HAVE ARTILLERY..
To extrpolate here (expand on.... for you sky)

I was grouping fast paced, short scenarios, small mapped shoot em ups and its called generalising. But you should now get the idea. The quick fun but contentless games that you pick up and play for a month and put down again. Against a game such as planetside where it can hold your appeal for much longer (if its up your street that is)



TBH i thought you were really just trolling, you said the fail takes skill, like 5 times in your post. heres how they work: you pull one off the pad...you setup in front of a vehicle repair silo, you fire like 2-3 shots to get your aim in, and you go AFK. there is no skill in flailing..maybe some complete minor teamwork in setting up the shots. But if thats what PS2 is going to consider teamwork, we best shut it down now. ..

Lets just do a double take here. You mention use of teamwork setting up a shot but call it minor (as to invoke a level of co-op so low that really you should not have mentioned it) Yet below (just in the next bit for you sky...) you qoute "propper teamwork between two people".

So if we use a inf and a laz pointer with a flail, that is minor where two snipers shooting the same bloke is Propper. Hell, i must go back to the dictionary and rediscover the meaning of co-operation. And if you can sit in a courtyard and hit any target on Auraxis with a flail with only a coply of shots and no spotter (was that minor or propper teamwork, you have me confused now) then you are surely legend sky. Maybe that is why i *should* know who you are. lol:rofl:

Also you list a whole lot of things that, you believe to be random deaths, you got double teams by some snipers...you know coordinating and calling a target and firing at the same time...proper teamwork, ..

Yeah ... we will just call the above quote an anomoly shall we.....:huh: (thats refering to my previous response for you Sky...)


and you got dead by an enemy you could see, plenty you could do about..shoot at them, break their COF, or dont break cover. you have plenty of control over not dying to gib shells dont out yourself on terrain that gives them an easy shot eg backing onto walls or a hill and then cert situational awareness.. and really getting gibbed by a jack hammer... do you go up the inside of stairway when facing NC?..in agile...? you deserve to die. ..
Hmmm such commanding responses. Let me see, killed by an emey i could see.... are you talking about the enemy i said i couldn't see, that you said i could see.... Nup, you lost me.

On the other hand you said you have plenty of control over not dying to gib shells. Well if that is the case, then why the hell are you whining over the flail. You said you have plenty of control to avoid it. That sky is a blatent contradiction... Do you know what you are saying ?

But yet, you give me battle advice on the playing field, and thanks for that... With such knowledge, maybe i should know who you are???

So you never crossed any open terrain on foot? Never been caught out in the open, been shot by any other thing that you didn't know was there.... Rubbish, utter rubbish.


You have proved you're in experience and lack of knowledge of this game.
Remember that, its a game, its not a war simulator, its not meant to represent real life, war sucks. why dont we add proper nukes to the game to? make it more realistic, shit gets abit out of hand?... we'll just drop a nuke. Vaporise a continent, show them not to fuck with the U S of a. WINNING!..
Lack of experience in the game..., are you trying to tell me that i have no idea because in your mind i may not haver played as long as you? So that makes you righteous and what i say is utter rubbish? Then please do tell me then, how long or at what rank would you consider that i know what i am talking about.

As for war sucks and its not supposed to represent real life. well, on this one I must confess. I think you are bordering delusional.

For one, its a war game and by the sounds of it you really enjoy it. Does it suck ...... Sky, was it..... I almost forgot your name, Do i know who YOU are ?

No its not supposed to represent real life. No not at all. The human race has never fought for territory or resources, nor has it engaged in battles over vast areas, nor has it used infantry, vehicles, aircraft for dominance. Nor has humans used tactics and command chanels with squad tactics. Nor have the humans used and devised a range of weapons for different applications....

no of course not sky, you must be correct. War must suck so much for you, because you were giving me your wise warfare wisdom of how to stay alive just a few qoutes above.... Rediculous.... utterly rediculous


The flail is nether enjoyable to people getting fired at by it, be them friendly's, enemy's, the people dying to it..the only person getting any enjoyment out of it, is the guy in the fail, but thats only because hes alt tabbed rubbing himself off to some pregnant anal porn. since his presence once a fail is setup its utterly pointless...though in planetside 2 he could setup like 5 accounts, all with flails, REALLY START TEAMWORKING THEN!
.
Nice way to put accross a point there Sky... That is your name isn't it? i still don't know who you are. Pregnant porn and anal at that.... yeah.. i see maturity and validity in what you are saying....... NOT !!

Maybe you are one of those people i have discussed before. You know, the ones that stand in the same spot or contiunously run into enemy fire and then bitch about it asking for nerfs... Maybe just maybe that is you?

But on the other hand, why not just take your favourite weapon (just one) and get rid of the rest. Why not just play in one base and just play conquest over and over again.... why not?

Because that is not planetside. Planetside emulates epic battles that includes, infantry armour and airborn assault. It even lets you co-ordinate the 3 over the battlefield, you know, like what happens in todays warfare.

If you want simply gameplay mechanics, then why not stick to a simple game. If you want an epic game.... Why not make it EPIC !!!!

If planetside is just going to be a simple frag em up with no changing scenarios (battlewise i am meaning here) then what is to keep people here and playing. I know you would be bored..... But would you?, you may be the one alt tabbed out watching pregnant anal porn ??/ Who knows.?

Also, the other members know who I am, them having played Planetside for more than 20 minutes and all.

Yes you are right...... But who are you.... maybe you should tell me who you are....

No, i am sorry, never heard of you....lol.... But i am getting a pretty great view of what you are like.... lol and i would shoot my 4 year old if she digressed to your mental age..

Who are you again.

LOL.

[Shogun]

no flail!

and if there really has to be flails in the game, make them team based. TOTALLY TEAMBASED! your lazer spotter is down, you cannot shoot anymore with the flail!

this way flails are not unstoppable anymore. as long as you can kill the cloaked end of the red beam crossing your courtyard, you can disable the flail.

no active lazerpointer, no flailrain. simple.

[NCLynx]

x

[NCLynx]

Ahhh Sky..... I was hoping that you could make it all the way through a retort without using the "know who I am".... But alas..... It just had to pop in there didn't it.

Also, the brevity of your post is akin to an age level that still uses clearasil on a daily basis inbetween OMGWTF comments in facebook.

So with that in mind, i will construct a response that hopefully you will understand and may serve as pleasant reading for others.



Actually sky, i read your post and have responded to it, surely that puts me above zero in the comprehension stakes

.
To extrpolate here (expand on.... for you sky)

I was grouping fast paced, short scenarios, small mapped shoot em ups and its called generalising. But you should now get the idea. The quick fun but contentless games that you pick up and play for a month and put down again. Against a game such as planetside where it can hold your appeal for much longer (if its up your street that is)


.

Lets just do a double take here. You mention use of teamwork setting up a shot but call it minor (as to invoke a level of co-op so low that really you should not have mentioned it) Yet below (just in the next bit for you sky...) you qoute "propper teamwork between two people".

So if we use a inf and a laz pointer with a flail, that is minor where two snipers shooting the same bloke is Propper. Hell, i must go back to the dictionary and rediscover the meaning of co-operation. And if you can sit in a courtyard and hit any target on Auraxis with a flail with only a coply of shots and no spotter (was that minor or propper teamwork, you have me confused now) then you are surely legend sky. Maybe that is why i *should* know who you are. lol:rofl:
.

Yeah ... we will just call the above quote an anomoly shall we.....:huh: (thats refering to my previous response for you Sky...)

.
Hmmm such commanding responses. Let me see, killed by an emey i could see.... are you talking about the enemy i said i couldn't see, that you said i could see.... Nup, you lost me.

On the other hand you said you have plenty of control over not dying to gib shells. Well if that is the case, then why the hell are you whining over the flail. You said you have plenty of control to avoid it. That sky is a blatent contradiction... Do you know what you are saying ?

But yet, you give me battle advice on the playing field, and thanks for that... With such knowledge, maybe i should know who you are???

So you never crossed any open terrain on foot? Never been caught out in the open, been shot by any other thing that you didn't know was there.... Rubbish, utter rubbish.
.
Lack of experience in the game..., are you trying to tell me that i have no idea because in your mind i may not haver played as long as you? So that makes you righteous and what i say is utter rubbish? Then please do tell me then, how long or at what rank would you consider that i know what i am talking about.

As for war sucks and its not supposed to represent real life. well, on this one I must confess. I think you are bordering delusional.

For one, its a war game and by the sounds of it you really enjoy it. Does it suck ...... Sky, was it..... I almost forgot your name, Do i know who YOU are ?

No its not supposed to represent real life. No not at all. The human race has never fought for territory or resources, nor has it engaged in battles over vast areas, nor has it used infantry, vehicles, aircraft for dominance. Nor has humans used tactics and command chanels with squad tactics. Nor have the humans used and devised a range of weapons for different applications....

no of course not sky, you must be correct. War must suck so much for you, because you were giving me your wise warfare wisdom of how to stay alive just a few qoutes above.... Rediculous.... utterly rediculous

.
Nice way to put accross a point there Sky... That is your name isn't it? i still don't know who you are. Pregnant porn and anal at that.... yeah.. i see maturity and validity in what you are saying....... NOT !!

Maybe you are one of those people i have discussed before. You know, the ones that stand in the same spot or contiunously run into enemy fire and then bitch about it asking for nerfs... Maybe just maybe that is you?

But on the other hand, why not just take your favourite weapon (just one) and get rid of the rest. Why not just play in one base and just play conquest over and over again.... why not?

Because that is not planetside. Planetside emulates epic battles that includes, infantry armour and airborn assault. It even lets you co-ordinate the 3 over the battlefield, you know, like what happens in todays warfare.

If you want simply gameplay mechanics, then why not stick to a simple game. If you want an epic game.... Why not make it EPIC !!!!

If planetside is just going to be a simple frag em up with no changing scenarios (battlewise i am meaning here) then what is to keep people here and playing. I know you would be bored..... But would you?, you may be the one alt tabbed out watching pregnant anal porn ??/ Who knows.?
.

Yes you are right...... But who are you.... maybe you should tell me who you are....

No, i am sorry, never heard of you....lol.... But i am getting a pretty great view of what you are like.... lol and i would shoot my 4 year old if she digressed to your mental age..

Who are you again.

LOL.

Watch out guys, we got a badass over here.

If flails were used a suppressant, I'm sure it'd be fine if it were limited in someway. (Or some sort of mortar fire)

But from the # of people I've seen take interest in this game, I can't help but think that this game will no doubt have a much larger population than the original. I also don't want to imagine how many of those people will just sit their and spam mortar fire looking for an easy kill. BF3 mortar users are a great example. Everytime I'm on the map with all the short bridges (cba to find the name) there's always at least 5 people mortaring the entire match.

[Bogusheadbox]

no flail!

and if there really has to be flails in the game, make them team based. TOTALLY TEAMBASED! your lazer spotter is down, you cannot shoot anymore with the flail!

this way flails are not unstoppable anymore. as long as you can kill the cloaked end of the red beam crossing your courtyard, you can disable the flail.

no active lazerpointer, no flailrain. simple.

That is a perfectly acceptable proposal.

And to tie into what NC lynx has said. Apart from my badass (which i get after a nasty curry).

Limitations on the flail. Should be high level vehicle, with the requirement for a spotter.

Now also think that as NClynx suggested, far more people online, then does not common sense say, that even though there are far more targets for the flail there is also the opportunity for far more chances of team kill and lock and far more opportunity for attack against the flail from other directions to which it is not attacking

Yes / No ?


Edit...... Also NClynx mentioned that he sees a lot of spamming. Well you have to remember that none of the flails friendlies can enter the spam area as well. SO if Flail friendlies want to move forward, then he is going to have to stop or grief locked. Same ending.

A flail should be used in a way that it softens up an area allowing an overwhelming force to enter.

[WarrantOfficer]

Similarly to sniping and other forms of long range, high damage output weapons. The flail should not reward solo play by doing more damage than it did in PS1, the reason it was so hard to get just a single flail was because the developers were afraid that, in practice, solo players would rather be sitting back shooting an artillery piece at the enemy than at the front fighting them with MBTs and other vehicles.

This is entirely true, if artillery similar(note:I'm not talking about artillery pieces such as mortars, I'm referring to howitzers, mobile guns and other long range cannons.) to the flail became any more easily accessible than it is in the current incarnation of PlanetSide then you would probably never see any tanks, buggys, sunderers, or even infantry at the front sans when the fight moves inside a base.

However, if the sunderer's artillery were just some dinky, short range artillery. I would be okay with it, MBTs and other vehicles should take it out with it being located so closely to the front as opposed to the 20 minute drive to fight an escort of 12+ reavers guarding a single flail days of old.

[Shogun]

if the flail can only fire while another player is lazerpointing, this would heavyly decrease the lonewulfs who just sit in their flail, put something heavy on the firebutton and go afk while their flail spamms the enemy base.

and killing your own spotter in the spam would really suck, so there would be nice coordination needed! hell even make it so, that not everybody can get a lazerpointer from a terminal, but you have to draw it from the flail you want to spot for! like teleporter pads were drawn from their teleport-vehicle in ps1.

this way there would be artillery in the game, and it would reward good teamwork with heavy firepower, but it would not be invincible!
ps1 flails spamming vehicle terms were hard to stop because you needed an airsquad to return to sanc, get their reavers and bombers and come back to the fight to take out the flail. and if the flail was even guarded by aa or piloted by cowardly vs sitting at the edge of a warpgate or a capitol shield it was totally invincible.

[acosmo]

there is no flail. suck it up, guys.

[Bogusheadbox]

Also don't forget the new mechanic of resources.

That mean you NEED to get inf and vehicles up to the front. Which means the flails have to stop firing. Therefore people won't sit in flails at the other end of the map. They will need to work in unisen

Put that in context with large map size, that mean to me the flail is likely to be more out in the open.

-Edit-

But you are right acosmo, if they are not in, then its all a moot point.

[WarrantOfficer]

if the flail can only fire while another player is lazerpointing.

The problem with this idea is that the flail will still be just as powerful as before, and since any infantry can use a laz pointer, many outfits will consist of flail pilots who have their IRL friend or whatever laz pointer for them.

This again does not reward teamplay, only friend play. Which in some ways is entire leagues worse than solo play.

The best solution is to just nerf the flail outright, either in range or AOE. This will keep solos and small groups from effectively using the flail, which is the way it should be.

[WarrantOfficer]

there is no flail. suck it up, guys.

Yep, just checked the information thread. He's right, thank god.

[Shogun]

matt counted the flail out in one of the early interviews. don´t want to look it up, but it´s true.

just wanted to prevent that whining campers would convince the devs to put them back in the way they were in ps1.

[Chaff]

.
Wow. THAT was some fun reading.

IF the FLAIL was really really OP......it would have been far more prevalent. No one.......ON ONE.....wants to run out the doors at some base and eat Flail fire. Yes. They were damn annoying.

I pulled FLAILS every Blue Moon. I NEVER went AFK after I pulled one.

SORRY, but I did get some semi-sick jollies getting what seemed like "FREE" kills. And yes, I got hate tells......the FUNNY PART was when the same cat kept running out the same door ...... and eating the same FLAIL spam I was launching at his base.

Either a REAVER came and ended my mindless fun, I grew bored of the monotony of spewing Flail fire, or......eventually a FRIENDLY ran in front of my Flail spam - that was the only DOWNSIDE (besides the brutally monotonous boredom) to Using the Flail.

THAT always ended my Flailing a base. Again, a HATE TELL was part of that mix. But hey......dude HAS TO SEE the Flail fire hitting the door (or wherever) that he decided to rush. I respect infantry and the many skilled fighters in PS who spend 99% of their time in frontline service. Sometimes I got bored with PS gameplay mechanics.

This thread was a HOOT. People who have great skill and/or game experience should have pride. There's a lot of ego here causing people to lose the respect their playing skills readily gives them.

THIS THREAD WAS FUNNY (for me)

cuz I'm not that good - and I'm not the type to take myself too seriously - I still love this game

[Figment]

The one thing I find strange about people is that they prefer to face an opponent that is so heavily armoured they stand no chance of taking it out, as long as it is in their face so they have the feeling they can do something about it. When compared to a unit they can kill (in one, to three shots without much risked due to the enemy's lack of agility and its very low rate of fire (downtime of around 20-40 seconds)), even as a scout once located and in view, but might deal them critical damage from a range at which they can't fight back, then they prefer the thing that will utterly obliterate them at close range.

Why? They have the feeling they could have done something about getting hit as the big thing in front of them served as the warning.

Me personally, am a bit the other way around. Rather dodge shots and kill something, then be faced by something that is impossible to kill. So, if we translate this to PlanetSide, I don't mind facing a bunch of snipers sniping from long distance and having to approach them by dodging their shots and then killing them with whatever - where if die, I can blame myself for exposing myself - where I do mind lots of AI MAXes up close outside a spawntube where I am left with no choice but to face them head on with gold/white ammo suppressor.

[NCLynx]

That is a perfectly acceptable proposal.

And to tie into what NC lynx has said. Apart from my badass (which i get after a nasty curry).

Limitations on the flail. Should be high level vehicle, with the requirement for a spotter.

Now also think that as NClynx suggested, far more people online, then does not common sense say, that even though there are far more targets for the flail there is also the opportunity for far more chances of team kill and lock and far more opportunity for attack against the flail from other directions to which it is not attacking

Yes / No ?


Edit...... Also NClynx mentioned that he sees a lot of spamming. Well you have to remember that none of the flails friendlies can enter the spam area as well. SO if Flail friendlies want to move forward, then he is going to have to stop or grief locked. Same ending.

A flail should be used in a way that it softens up an area allowing an overwhelming force to enter.

You didn't play much of the original if you think people will stop when they see grief. If I'm not mistaken they haven't exactly confirmed what the "grief" system will include either. I'm sure there will be some penalties, but I've seen to many people willing to keep firing until maximum grief to not have at least some sort of huge limitation on mortar fire if it is ever included.

[PoisonTaco]

Why not require a spotter for artillery strikes? Anybody remember the artillery from Battlefield 1942?

To use artillery in that game (indirectly) you had to have a Recon use the binoculars and call for artillery. Someone in artillery (or a battleship) would then see what the Recon sees. They'd have to play around with height and power on the artillery to try and make the shot.

Why not do something like that? Okay have long range artillery, but make it require teamwork to actually pull off. Have people spotting targets and calling a location for a bombardment. Defending against artillery? Kill the people who can call it out.

[ShockFC]

HAHAHAHAHAH this fucking thread

[SKYeXile]

HAHAHAHAHAH this fucking thread

Did you bring the Awe?

[ShockFC]

I ALWAYS bring the Awe, unless Trick's around.

[Sirisian]

I am fairly sure it is still a bomber or at least a variation of a bomber. The bottom filled out hull on the pictures is there for some reason. I really do believe there will be bombing in PS2. Customizing the Lib could be a factor though.
During a twitter question event a while back:
Question: will the libbie be still a 3 man vehicle? Or will the pilot drop the bombs?
Brewko: The Liberator is a 3-Man Gunship, it's not a bomber like it was in in PS1.
It's good to get this information out there. Liberator bombing was my favorite activity. Was really hoping for a 2 person bomber with the driver dropping the bombs. Still not sure what I'll be doing in Planetside 2.

[SKYeXile]

During a twitter question event a while back:

It's good to get this information out there. Liberator bombing was my favorite activity. Was really hoping for a 2 person bomber with the driver dropping the bombs. Still not sure what I'll be doing in Planetside 2.

i thought they said somewhere that the ES fights could be equipped with bombs, sorta like an A10?

[UlfStein]

@Bogus,

I was initially going to leave this be considering Sky took the high ground, as any mature person would, and refrained from pointlessly bringing to light your idiocies, but alas, your tomfoolery managed to fester, in these wee bit hours of the morning, under a deep dark crevice of my mind that is compelled to lash out at such blatant, ignorant hubris.

For starters, I noticed that you've mentioned that you are from the UK, so I apologize in advance if some of what i'm about to say or misinterpretations i've made from of what you had said is confounded by the cultural differences between the UK and the USA, from where i've been raise.

With that being said, I may be wrong, but i seriously doubt that our definitions of "delusional" are too far off base from one another. In the least bit though, I would have expected at least some proof behind claiming that someone is "bordering delusional." As a university student with a minor reading in Psychology and my personal experience with real life examples of delusions as I vicariously watched several of my friends suffer from schizophrenia and from my own observations of myself exhibiting delusional behaviors which were produced by several medication complications, I wouldn't dare say that anything Sky has said on this thread is remotely near indicative of a delusional thought process. However, from what i've read from your posts, i'm afraid that I can't say the same for you, and since you felt the urge to carelessly try to defame someone on the basis of delusion, i'm sure that you won't mind if I expound upon my reasoning.

To begin, the first thing that caught my eye was your claim that sky's short comments were indicative of his mental age. This acutely grabbed my attention because the comments you made before the one in which you made this claim were essentially the same length as Sky's. After which I quickly realized that this was not the only time you referenced maturity which seemed to me like an irrational fixation. In addition, I noticed that you seemed to be projecting your obsession of the phrase "do you know who I am" onto Sky as if he too was fixated on it, when he was simply just pointing out how ignorant you were being by saying that his post lead you to believe he haven't played the game much. His follow up on that statement was not, nor was the initial statement for that matter, by any means a form of self-gratification or self-efficacy, and he made no claims that you should want to know who he is. It was just a blatant declaration that you couldn't have played recently if you didn't know who he was as he is, or at least when I was playing, a prodominent member of the planetside community which is probably another reason why he commented about your reading comprehension.

as a intermission to my analysis, I want to point out some fallacies in your posts. First off, just because you've read something and responded to it doesn't not mean you've comprehended it. Second, if you are going to try to disparge someone's intelligence by defining a word for them, you should at least make an attempt to ensure that you are giving the right definition. Expound was the word you were looking for. Extrapolate means to make a prediction based off of current data. Making sure its spelled right wouldn't hurt much either. Lastly, comment length is not necessarily in a positive correlation or indicative of higher intelligence or maturity, but can rather, in some cases prove that someone actually lacks the ability to communicate their ideas efficently or lacks the maturity to filter out what does or does not need to be said. Also, your use of sentences as individual paragraphs by dividing them with double spaces is actually more indicative of internet, communiticative immaturity in comparison to Sky's legitimate paragraphs despite his post's brevity.

To continue, the condescending, or belittling, word usage found in your posts towards Sky combined with your own self gratification, which I believe you also projected onto Sky, via boosting about mental age, being an authority on the art of adult manner, and inconsistant self labeling of your own self immaturity in a manner that comes off as bragging, i'm lead to believe that you may have a mild Adler's inferiority complex. Furthermore, though I found it amusing, your sarcasm about real warfare and the game is also rather alarming, but not quite as disturbing as your irrational obsession with the "Who I am" phrase. In no way does this game, or as far as I know, any FPS for that matter come anywhere close to simulating real warfare, and it is rather ignorant or irrational to think otherwise. The closest you may get would be a game like Navy Seals or something like that, definitely not planetside. Anyway, to conclude my analysis, I noticed that you decided to mention your 4 year old in this discussion. This comes off to me as being akin to a freudian slip. Why would you even bring that up, especially in the context of shooting her? are you sure you're not having an early mid life crisis? Though i'm far from being a trained professional in psychology, I honestly do not think that you need to seek out help as i've definitely seen much much worse, but i'd at least double check yourself before commenting on someone else's state of mind and/or intelligence/maturity level.

As far as other points you brought up, i've mentioned before that Sky is a predominent planetside member, and by predominent, I mean successful, so you've essentially put your foot in your mouth in regards to suspecting he is an inexperienced player, is unknowledgable about what kind of game it is, or trying to say he must play like a noob. In most of the cases he stated, he was right. For example, it does take more team work to co-ordinate a tag team sniping operation as you have to constantly update each other on who you're shooting and when to shoot where as with lazing, all you have to say to someone is, "here take this here laze pointer and laze that there vehical terminal," and your painter just goes on about his business as if nothing had happened. A lot of what you said comes off as the saying, "learning just alittle of something can be a dangerous thing." Its feels as if you've just learned the tiny basics of something like a highschool student or a college student who feels compelled to share their knowledge and understanding of this new subject when in actuality they know and understand essentially nothing about it. I understand how it would be frustrating for new players to die unexpectingly because they are unaware of their surroundings, and i'm not some uber leet player myself, but like Sky was infering, it would be an experienced players fault for falling victim to majority of the things you said.

To refer back to the original topic of this thread, however, since i'm not just a part of this forum to troll afterall, Vancha's post about the the prowler's doubling as artillery being plausible via the pic he linked on the first page of this thread seems rather sufficient to me. I personally like the idea, and feel that its appropriete for a Planetside game unless there is adequate anti-artillary vehicals in the game to counter balance a flail.

[acosmo]

blah blah buttmad and bad spelling/grammer

what did you have to say about ps2?

[Grognard]

Personally I think heavy artillery (such as Flail variety) should be an "off-map" strike derived from high level commander tools, after much investment. Even then, with a cooldown, so "spam" could only happen with faction based cooperation from multiple commanders trying to break a difficult stalemate. Further, even that spam would be rare due to all of them setting off their respective cooldowns.

Small, short range, low yield shelling, smoke, and/or fascam based mortars, to me seems reasonable. If balanced with low-mobility, and the ease at which ememies can zero in on your shell trajectories, requiring "shoot n scoot" will serve to eliminate spamming.

All in all, indirect fire is a proven doable idea... but again, big, heavy yield, flail type "spamilery"... I think its a bad idea. Hell, NC phoenix's would be more worrysome for maxxes (eye guided from afar...), than a small caliber mortar / field gun (deployable?).

[UlfStein]

what did you have to say about ps2?

I said that I second what Vanche said, the Prowlers in the pictures provided look sufficient for artillary in a game like planetside.

[acosmo]

I said that I second what Vanche said, the Prowlers in the pictures provided look sufficient for artillary in a game like planetside.

Aye. Inshallah their shells will arc adequately.

[Shade Millith]

This is ridiculous. The Liberator was a suppression aircraft. You got an icon for each and every bomb that thing dropped on your HUD, and had more than enough time to move your arse out of the way. Worked great for suppression, and killing people not paying attention. Indirect fire? Please. Use your neck muscles and look up. You're now looking at it.

I'm guessing people who wanted it gone are against sniper rifles? 'Oh no, I died from someone I can't see, remove them from the game'. Or grenade launchers? How about anything that can fire beyond 20 feet? Might wanna get rid of tanks while your at it. I hear they can one shot kill infantry. The COD blokes might not like that.

Flail? Big freaking deal. Spawn somewhere else, get a Reaver and go freaking kill it. He's a free kill, it can't move, and those big glowy shots coming from the sky show exactly where he is. He's protected by AA? Then get a few guys together to defeat these few guys that are working together. Like it's supposed to be done.

Combined Arms people. Artillery is a part of it.

I said that I second what Vanche said, the Prowlers in the pictures provided look sufficient for artillary in a game like planetside.

If I'm not mistaken, are Prowlers not TR? Then what about the other 2 factions? Or are TR going to get something artillery like, stuff everyone else?

[UlfStein]

If I'm not mistaken, are Prowlers not TR? Then what about the other 2 factions? Or are TR going to get something artillery like, stuff everyone else?

Prowlers are in fact TR specific, however, I was using them as an example because the picture that was provided to support this claim contained a prowler. I'm confident the other empire specific MBTs will suffice as well.

[acosmo]

Prowlers are in fact TR specific, however, I was using them as an example because the picture that was provided to support this claim contained a prowler. I'm confident the other empire specific MBTs will suffice as well.

except VS troloLOL

[Shade Millith]

Prowlers are in fact TR specific, however, I was using them as an example because the picture that was provided to support this claim contained a prowler. I'm confident the other empire specific MBTs will suffice as well.

If the Magrider is anything like PS1's, then no, VS is out of luck. The Vanguard as well, IIRC, had a much flatter trajectory, meaning it would also be terrible.

But that's besides the point. These 'horrible AFK Flails' aren't somehow invulnerable death slaughter machines. They're an easy target for a single Reaver. Anyone with a lick of sense about them, can destroy them with minimal trouble.

[SKYeXile]

If the Magrider is anything like PS1's, then no, VS is out of luck. The Vanguard as well, IIRC, had a much flatter trajectory, meaning it would also be terrible.

But that's besides the point. These 'horrible AFK Flails' aren't somehow invulnerable death slaughter machines. They're an easy target for a single Reaver. Anyone with a lick of sense about them, can destroy them with minimal trouble.

Using Planetside as an example for what to expect in PS2 is a sure recipe for fail.

[Vancha]

If the Magrider is anything like PS1's, then no, VS is out of luck. The Vanguard as well, IIRC, had a much flatter trajectory, meaning it would also be terrible.

But that's besides the point. These 'horrible AFK Flails' aren't somehow invulnerable death slaughter machines. They're an easy target for a single Reaver. Anyone with a lick of sense about them, can destroy them with minimal trouble.

I think the point is, how do they improve the game? Does having globs of insta-death incessantly being pelted towards high-traffic areas improve anyone's experience of the game?

And yes, there have been arguments made that removing snipers/grenade launchers would improve the flow of the game.

Things that fire indirectly or from long range have always had to be handled carefully from a game design point-of-view, because they are prone to becoming detrimental to the game experience and they don't even need to be imbalanced or unfair to have a negative impact on play.

For artillery to exist to PS2's benefit, I believe it'd need to be more involved, less impersonal and more varied/specialized than simply raining light-bolts of instagibbery.

[Shade Millith]

I think the point is, how do they improve the game? Does having globs of insta-death incessantly being pelted towards high-traffic areas improve anyone's experience of the game?

Then why have multiple weapons? One weapon for all? Give everyone an assault rifle and send them into a 400 man COD match.

In a Combined Arms they should be looking at the game, and say "What role isn't fulfilled?". Be it Air support, Naval Transport, CQC, Artillery or Suppression. Then say, "How can we fill this role, but have a counter/weakspot?"

Snipers have Cloakers/Countersnipers, Tanks have Anti-Tank/Tanks, Aircraft have Anti-Air/Interceptors.

Flails filled the role of Artillery, and had a counter of Aircraft/'Fast Movers with AT capabilities'. Rebalance them, half/quarter the range and/or armor, fine. Turn it into a truck with a howitzer on the back, that blows up when you look at it funny, I don't care.

But to remove a role, that had a very viable and easily accessible counter just doesn't sit right with me.

[SKYeXile]

Well lets be glad the decision rests with SOE and not armchair developers then.

[Shade Millith]

Well lets be glad the decision rests with SOE.

BFR's

[Vancha]

BFR's
Is that not a good example of filling a role which had viable counters and yet was still detrimental to the game?

[Shade Millith]

Is that not a good example of filling a role which had viable counters and yet was still detrimental to the game?

It didn't fill a unfulfilled role. It's role was essentially Armored Vehicle, shared with MBT's (Just with more HP,speed and damage), and it wasn't until too late that it had a proper, viable counter. Aka infantry.

That's why it was detrimental.

[SKYeXile]

BFR's

Yes, a result of what happened the last time they listened to players.

Why are you bringing it up? you're not really strengthening your argument, only mine.

[Shade Millith]

Yes, a result of what happened the last time they listened to players.

Why are you bringing it up? you're not really strengthening your argument, only mine.

I must have missed that. All I can recall is the multitude of people screaming for them to be removed, but SOE refusing.

[SKYeXile]

I must have missed that. All I can recall is the multitude of people screaming for them to be removed, but SOE refusing.

They cant remove something people paid for directly since it was added in as part of core combat. Legal mumbo jumbo.

[Vancha]

It didn't fill a unfulfilled role. It's role was essentially Armored Vehicle, shared with MBT's (Just with more HP,speed and damage), and it wasn't until too late that it had a proper, viable counter. Aka infantry.

That's why it was detrimental.

I wasn't aware MBTs could be driven and gunned by one man, nor was I aware they could fly...

Granted though, BFRs flaw was imbalance rather than anything else. Disregard my last post.

In a Combined Arms they should be looking at the game, and say "What role isn't fulfilled?". Be it Air support, Naval Transport, CQC, Artillery or Suppression. Then say, "How can we fill this role, but have a counter/weakspot?"

Flails filled the role of Artillery, and had a counter of Aircraft/'Fast Movers with AT capabilities'. Rebalance them, half/quarter the range and/or armor, fine. Turn it into a truck with a howitzer on the back, that blows up when you look at it funny, I don't care.

But to remove a role, that had a very viable and easily accessible counter just doesn't sit right with me.
I see no reason why they're obliged to fill every role they can come up with, especially if the implementation is anything like that of the Flail.

I think the point is, how do they improve the game? Does having globs of insta-death incessantly being pelted towards high-traffic areas improve anyone's experience of the game?Then why have multiple weapons? One weapon for all? Give everyone an assault rifle and send them into a 400 man COD match.
I'm not even sure how to reply to that. How does what I asked in any way imply that they should remove every weapon but one? I didn't even state anything, you just extrapolated all that from a question.

The obvious answer to your initial question is of course that having multiple weapons improves people's experience of the game. That using and facing the various weapons and vehicles that exist present challenges and creates scenarios that makes the game more enjoyable than using and facing just one weapon.

[DayOne]

I see no reason why they're obliged to fill every role they can come up with

A good MMO makes your character feel special and it isn't all down to the colour of your shoe laces. The more roles the better, it gives depth to the game and makes your role feel all the more personal :groovy:

[Graywolves]

I love indirect fire. Besides, you could see a flail shot coming if you knew there was one out there.

It gives players more to do than rush into eachother like two nests of zerglings. You need to get a team or an ace pilot together and get behind enemy lines and take out their artillery.

[Hmr85]

IMO, give the Infantry some sort of a mortar. You could put it way back in the skill tree so it takes some time to get to it. You could even specialize it for each faction. Such as VS shooting some sort of Energy based mortar or w/e.

Give it a bit of a punch when it hits. Not enough to kill you but just enough to knock you below 50% hp. Also give it a descent size AOE. With max damage in the middle to almost nothing on the outskirts.

Give it descent range. I should be able to sit up on top of a hill a few km away and shell the base. Limit the ammo to 20 rounds or something.

Now you have a form of Artillery.

[Vancha]

A good MMO makes your character feel special and it isn't all down to the colour of your shoe laces. The more roles the better, it gives depth to the game and makes your role feel all the more personal :groovy:
Don't take one part of one sentence out of context and then make me repeat everything that lead to me saying it. That's how threads start going in circles. :groovy:

[Graywolves]

Don't take one part of one sentence out of context and then make me repeat everything that lead to me saying it. That's how threads start going in circles. :groovy:

A thread can't go in a circle, it can only go forwards!!! :groovy:



I just wanted to do the groovy

[Bogusheadbox]

@Bogus,

...................snippity on a long post...........

Thank you Ulfstein for your reply. Though i will accept your younger age for the way you constructed your post with a non linear correlation to your supposed expertise in physcology.

However, you have to remember that opinions very, sometimes wildly. Now whilst your application of team work, in relation to game mechanics of the flail seems less than that of two snipers working on a target, then unfortunately i have to disagree. I find the opposite. When i used to play with a two man sniping team i found that to be far more simpler than deploying a successful flail misison.

But that is my opinion, and its fine for you to disagree.

But we seem to be going round in circles over a debate with Skyexile (he must be loving the attention - - - Do you know who he is ?)

Now, i don't give a monkeys, if he is the most prolific, successful, shambolic, idiotic (or whatever adjective you could use) player out there. But the "do you know who i am" retort which was used more than once, offered no insight into his objectionsto and just showed a blind arrogance that *I* should know who he is. Why should *I* know who he is ?

Now for me, he could be just some pimply aged teenager that playes planetside. Or he could be Elle Mcpherson in disguise. Point is, i don't know who he / she is ( i would like to think Elle Mcpherson over a pimply faced kid). Any in game achievements he/she may have mean nothing to me. Not to mention that i played this game a very long time ago, probably before most of you played it maybe even before skyExile has played it, maybe not.

The game mechanics may have changed substantially since i used to play it. I know the player base definitely changed for the worse since i played and i stopped playing well before the decline of the Werner server (was it the werner server that served the UK?)

Now thank you for your post, the contradictory statemets and your insight to delusional. I will however understand that you have a different point of view and maybe you can see that i have one too.

However, i do consider your post to be far more polite than "Sky (who is he) exile" and hense i have responded in a more favourable fasion. However, you have fallen short of hitting the mark of a scathing reply nor have you provided the backgroud, be it personal education or mental to quantify those points you have made which are not contradictory.

Have a nice day

[Bogusheadbox]

They cant remove something people paid for directly since it was added in as part of core combat. Legal mumbo jumbo.

Sorry sky, you have confused me here. I totally agree with Millith

Didn't you say above that BFR's were a result because SOE listened to the playerbase ?

Unless i have taken you the wrong way that to me seems to imply that its the players fault for BFR's

And i can tell you (as a player well before BFR's - and you may be one too) that the player base was not impressed by them.

Core combat for me was a release to re-energise the failing community to the standard planetside 1. Uk server numbers were dwindling fast. One pop locked continent left almost nothing on other continents. To me is was just a tactic to bring back some old playerbase.

There were also huge reductions in peoples computer performance, and that drove a lot of people away.

So i don't think (from my experience) it was because SOE listened to the playerbase that caused the BFR fiasco.

They cant remove something people paid for directly since it was added in as part of core combat. Legal mumbo jumbo.

I would suggest you try actually reading the EULA. They can remove / change any and all parts of the game whenever they wish to.

Purchasing the game does not mean you own the game.

[Figment]

Just coming in here:

Something akin to BFRs had been brought up by some players as ideas on the stupidity level of "outfit cruisers" (which have also been brought up before where 80% of the forum populace that actually thought about the consequences of a hugely armoured aircraft shot it down, before they literally couldn't - yet we got the Galaxy Gunship probably in part due to such suggestions).

IIRC, at the time, players wanted to see a heavily armoured multicrew vehicle (as in 4-5 people to man). Presumably they had something akin to a C&C Mammoth Tank. Some other people had been calling for mechs, probably because they liked Mechwarrior (in fact, we had such a person on forums recently). What we got was medium armoured, heavily SHIELDED mechs which only required one or two players and where the driver on his own was already very effective and infantry (its counter) was easily dispatched by driver alone. In the meantime, no dev ever bothered to consider the shield's strength with respect to attrition by vehicle hits. Magriders could literally not bring the shield down, in a game where even sustained machine gun fire could kill a MBT because health does not regenerate for other units.

The idea for counters against BFRs was always considered to be infantry firing through the shield and getting in the shield and machine guns 20mm and smaller. Infantry could just not be effective at all until several BFR nerfs later. Not only did other BFRs and units cover them making it impossible to reach them without mossie bailing on them, then while you were carrying AV weapons and EMP grenades, the gunner would bail out with a HA weapon and kill you before you switched weapons (sound familiar?). So among other things, the devs in their ultimate wisdom never considered the ease of acquisition of BFRs, the ease of keeping them alive (making even 20-30 minute timers ineffective forms of limitation) and what multiple BFRs covering eachother and with other units picking off infantry would do. None of them even did the maths of how long it would take for two crouched BFRs to kill eachother.

In the meantime some dev gave some of them the ability to jump out of danger, stand on bases, while firing and while the shield recharges, without being prone to AA and without at all considering how hard it is to hit such a sudden vertically accelerating object, despite of its size.

Implementation of an already bad idea, was just horrible. Very poor testing of course did not reveal all these problems even if players warned they were going to be OP, but not all players saw the problems at the time and told us to "wait with making a judgement till we actually saw them in game". Oh hey, never heard that one on these forums...

So sure, they had "some role", in this case, pwn and camp everything, but as Vancha said, just because you CAN create a role doesn't mean you have to.

[Shogun]

my thoughts on mortars for soldiers:

if we get them, make them empire specific!

nc gets smaller area of effect but heavy hit

tr get larger area of effect but less punch

vs get the announced vampire grenades for the mortar or a cauldron filled with gold, that projects a shiny rainbow.

[Chug]

I don't know who sky is either (only played for a year though).

I like artillery, never used a flail when i played but i liked that it was there. I like to see explosions around me when im fighting, i like to see explosion in and around the enemy position as we gather for the attack. For me it is immersive.

So, it just needs a role that does not cause an in-balance. Sadly without the ability to fortify/entrench that is tough to do. If artillery could degrade a defensive position without causing heavy casualties to the defenders then that would work - but Planetside does not seem to have the ability to fortify/entrench (the reason no WW2 game ever works for me) So I'm not sure artillery is an option - I therefore do agree that a long range killer weapon; irrespective of how much teamwork it requires; is a problem.

Btw, I realise the flail is ruled out, have they ruled out the flail or artillery in general?

If anything I've said is innacurate would appreciate corrections.

cheers

[Grognard]

I dunno guys... it just seems so easy to balance artillery, even heavy caliber...

Aside from balancing yield, rate, and accuracy... the most important thing to enable is counter battery fire. Simple to do... each salvo gives a 25% chance to show an enemy artillery icon on the map. This requires artillery to "shoot n scoot" (or die quick), so... spam=death... Aircraft will see this arty-icon from anywhere on the continent (information sharing AWAC equivalent shit...) and the artillery is toast without local CAP craft babysitting them.

Also, all artillery could have a counter battery mode, whereby, they can target map coordinates (click enemy arty-icon) rather than spotter / free form FFE modes. This causes artillery duels, and the canon-cockers can then govern themselves...

Im a fan of artillery... but I hated the flail. If artillery is even going to be used at all, it needs to simulate the purpose and flavor, without alienating half the playerbase... I think its doable, but the F(l)AIL was just bad implementation.

[SKYeXile]

Sorry sky, you have confused me here. I totally agree with Millith

Didn't you say above that BFR's were a result because SOE listened to the playerbase ?

Unless i have taken you the wrong way that to me seems to imply that its the players fault for BFR's

And i can tell you (as a player well before BFR's - and you may be one too) that the player base was not impressed by them.

Core combat for me was a release to re-energise the failing community to the standard planetside 1. Uk server numbers were dwindling fast. One pop locked continent left almost nothing on other continents. To me is was just a tactic to bring back some old playerbase.

There were also huge reductions in peoples computer performance, and that drove a lot of people away.

So i don't think (from my experience) it was because SOE listened to the playerbase that caused the BFR fiasco.



I would suggest you try actually reading the EULA. They can remove / change any and all parts of the game whenever they wish to.

Purchasing the game does not mean you own the game.

you can think whatever you want, players wanted to have big fucking robots, and they got them, i dont know who voted for them or where this vote was held, but apparently it happened, BFR's won, we got them and got stuck with them.

China had BFR's removed since it was not a paid expansion pack for them, we cant since it was bundled with core combat(since you needed to access the caves to get attuned) EVIGPIG knows more about this issue, he spoke to devs at fan fair about it, and thats the reason they gave.