How do you feel about the idea of class systems and no free-form inventory?

[texico]

I was wondering how people, particular those who played PS1, feel about the fact that players will select classes in PS2?

Obviously, this is speculative (which the whole forum is, really...), but we do know some details. It's been made clear that as it stands, for example, cloakers won't be able to carry medical apps because that's two separate classes, and while it's true that he can switch classes upon respawn, he can't fulfill both roles while on the battlefield.

I'm not feeling great about this, and am anxious to see exactly how it works in Beta. I think PlanetSide's freeform was one of its pillars that made it unique - as important an aspect as its "thousands of players" selling point.

Why? I think the ability to make selections how you choose personalised the game a lot. Everybody had their own little quirks and styles. For example, I always carried 6 medpacks when Sniping - people would take the piss, but it was my own little style :p. Some people would carry two rifles, some would carry a shotgun and a rocket launcher, some carried grenades with flamethrowers... If pre-determined classes means you can't make those decisions, then that organically-created personalisation dies.

I understand that PlanetSide may have suffered too much from generalisation, but I think the way to move away from that is to encourage and give benefits to specialisation, rather than restrict generalisation. Maybe selecting your class gives you the attire of that class, so friendlies can expect you to be fulfilling that function. Or maybe the class you select gives you access to that classes weapons at all times, but weapons from other classes that you have certs for can be made available depending on the resource system. Or, maybe if the classes are restrictive, there should always be basic common pool weapons available to all classes - a shotgun (like the sweeper), a rifle (suppressor), grenades (frags), a pistol. If you want the real toys you need to select that class.

Probably more easy to discuss is the free-form inventory. Even if the class system is there and is restrictive, the free-form backpack is really a must. Within classes players should at least be able to to make personalised decisions such as how much ammo they want to take for a given situation, whether they want extra weapons in their backpacks that aren't holstered, whether they want extra ammo for a vehicle, or something. In a game that's going to praise itself on customisation, removing the free-form inventory, probably the most customisable and personalised system that could be in there seems bizarre. The whole system of interactivity with trunks and lockers and backpacks and looting people's corpses felt great as well, and I don't know what the obsession with modern games is about removing all that.

Personally the inventory also had potential. There could be loads of new variables and pieces of equipment that PS2 could have introduced that could have been interesting; NTU canisters perhaps, or whatever else could be thought up.


So, seeing as the details or beta aren't here, how are people actually feeling about the class system and the inventory? Do you think it will be better than PS1's system? Feeling skeptical? Think it could be pulled off?

I think some of the development points have been inspired, such as shields replacing armour (having to obsessively repair every time you got slightly damaged was a god damn pain), and I've been impressed with almost everything I've seen. But I've played PS1 since 2006 and these two points, I'm really concerned are going to be a step backwards from PS1. I also don't understand what the logic was to remove inventories.

[Tasorin]

The ability to be a combat functional army of one denigrates the whole idea of unit builds, fulfilling a role, and load out variety. You shouldn't be able to do it all at once, but you should be allowed to do one thing really well and still have enough "class" points left to be battlefield functional.

Quite frankly until SOE decides to actually release some core game mechanic write ups in which they confirm the actual nuts and bolts of how those game mechanics will function we can only speculate based on the conceptual information we have attained so far.

Bottom line, no one knows for sure what is or isn't going to be in Beta, let alone when Beta is actually going to occur. Not to even really go down the road of how the game core functions will change as we work our way through beta and stress testing into the final build for launch.

[Shogun]

i will not miss the jack of all trades rexos that are the standard loadout in ps1 now, but i will miss my cloaking frontline adv. medic and my unarmed engineer with maximum mines in backpack.

but i will just wait for beta to see what the devs have in store for us.

[texico]

The ability to be a combat functional army of one denigrates the whole idea of unit builds, fulfilling a role, and load out variety. You shouldn't be able to do it all at once, but you should be allowed to do one thing really well and still have enough "class" points left to be battlefield functional.

Quite frankly until SOE decides to actually release some core game mechanic write ups in which they confirm the actual nuts and bolts of how those game mechanics will function we can only speculate based on the conceptual information we have attained so far.

Bottom line, no one knows for sure what is or isn't going to be in Beta, let alone when Beta is actually going to occur. Not to even really go down the road of how the game core functions will change as we work our way through beta and stress testing into the final build for launch.

Unfortunately when the information isn't fully there it's difficult for the community to react. We have to wait until Beta before we can test some of these aspects and really decide for sure, but that far in to development and it may be too late for things to change even if there are problems. So your concerns or opinions have to be kind of speculatory. I think that's kind of what happened with the class system idea in the first place. The PS1 community didn't know about it until it was going to happen/happening, and so couldn't react, whether to support it or shout it down.

So speculation kind of lets the devs know what the community is thinking even if we don't even know whether said system is or isn't in at all because they can't give any clues away.

[Tasorin]

Unfortunately when the information isn't fully there it's difficult for the community to react. We have to wait until Beta before we can test some of these aspects and really decide for sure, but that far in to development and it may be too late for things to change even if there are problems. So your concerns or opinions have to be kind of speculatory.

The community tries to pull every last ounce of information we can out of Higgles and company in regards to core game mechanics. The advantage that PS2 may have, depending on what "F2P" really means, is if the Client is free to download, then there are not units to press, package, ship, and stock at at traditional brick and mortar. This means that in a scenario with a F2P downloadable client that the PS2 team can make changes right up until the day the servers go live. Unlike when you ship pressed units and have to lock down the build long before you go live. Now of course with a hard release you can be tweaking the client and patch the changes, but you are not making any radical changes. PS2 would or could be afforded that opportunity in a F2P client to make major changes in Beta right up until the live launch.

[SKYeXile]

The class system maybe okay, provided its not to restrictive IMO, id hate the game to come to something like TF2 or Global agenda or and MMORPG where as a tank or heavy armour class you're sort of dependant on pocket healers. I liked PS1 where you could support yourself. Id hope as an assault I'm still able to heal myself and the medic class will offer things like, faster out of combat healing, deployable spawn points and resurrection and not directly sway the outcome of a fire fight like other games.

As for the inventory system? ill pass my judgement until we see what they have planned, from what we have seen their customisation has been pretty good, im sure we will see lots of different slots where we can interchange items, special ability, perks and implanets etc.

[texico]

^^

That's interesting, although I though PS2 would be released with CD's in the same fashion as PS1 or TF2 were, although this depends on if they're setting a price to purchase.

^

I feel similar, in that it might be okay, if they do allow access to a basic weapon of each type (rifle, shotgun, pistol, some form of healing etc). However, I still think it would be much better if they encouraged people to set themselves up as classes through their own decision making (based on variables like benefits and what needs to be achieved) rather than force them to not be able to generalize how they want (cloaking+med app for example).

I'm much more skeptical about the lack of freeform inventory though, although I think that's probably something that can be changed much more easily from post-beta reaction.

[bkx]

A free-form inventory system could still exist with classes, some items/weapons could be restricted to certain classes. You could still customize your inventory for tradeoffs between ammo, healing, and supplying teammates.

[NewSith]

I'm a fan of the freeform, but I take it classes were added to simplify the gameplay. That such system does perfectly.

[SKYeXile]

^^

That's interesting, although I though PS2 would be released with CD's in the same fashion as PS1 or TF2 were, although this depends on if they're setting a price to purchase.

^

I feel similar, in that it might be okay, if they do allow access to a basic weapon of each type (rifle, shotgun, pistol, some form of healing etc). However, I still think it would be much better if they encouraged people to set themselves up as classes through their own decision making (based on variables like benefits and what needs to be achieved) rather than force them to not be able to generalize how they want (cloaking+med app for example).

I'm much more skeptical about the lack of freeform inventory though, although I think that's probably something that can be changed much more easily from post-beta reaction.


well they have said that their would be" skill trees for weapons, vehicles and classes" and i guess other misc things like leadership.

I cent remember what that quote was, i think its on a PC gamer article. but i would imagine since they separated weapons and classes that some of the weapons are usable cross class, or what would be the point in having separate trees?

Unless they're doing it like BF series where there were common weapons to each class available, could be the purpose of nanite systems in a way.

[ThGlump]

Classes can have some good points, but i fear it will means one thing. That transport vehicles will be obsolete, and there wont be any gunners. In ps1 you had to sacrifice something (a little but still) to have tank. Now everyone will have it, so nobody would want to be passenger or shoot, when tank is only respawn/change class away (with better weapon youll get as a gunner).
Driver/gunner idea with easily changeable classes means only vehicle (1 person each) fighting between bases, youll never see any soldier.

[Brusi]

Just because they are replacing free-form inv with a class system doesn't mean that your kit will not be greatly customisable.

I'm hoping at least that they are taking note of how important the underlying concept behind free-form inv's was. That being the ablility to choose the type and set of weapons and devices you felt matched your playstyle.

Hopefully classes will just be a way to stop OP combos.

I don't think there is any problem with restricting ReXo/HA/AV/Med/Eng grunt spec, but not being able to play a pure support role of cloaker/eng/medic/hacker, at the expense of any real killing power might be missed.

[Sirisian]

A free-form inventory system could still exist with classes, some items/weapons could be restricted to certain classes. You could still customize your inventory for tradeoffs between ammo, healing, and supplying teammates.
Just because they are replacing free-form inv with a class system doesn't mean that your kit will not be greatly customisable.
Essentially these kinds of points. The free-form inventory was broken and pointless in PS1. It circumvented the whole concept of weapon and utility slots. Think about it. When you used agile and you swapped from your gun to a deci was there really a delay? Suddenly you were using an armor as if it had 2 weapon slots. I feel the class system should focus on weapon and utility slots as customization. Choosing from tons of choices within a class to really vary each soldier without allowing silly min-maxing.

[Raymac]

I'm personally not going to miss the tetris mini-game inventory system. I liked the concept of the "free-form" classes in PS1 but we all know that the default loadout, especially for indoor fights, became HA/AV/Eng/Med, and if everyone can carry Eng and Med then it kind of squeezed out those people that actually want to play a support role.

[Shade Millith]

When you used agile and you swapped from your gun to a deci was there really a delay? Suddenly you were using an armor as if it had 2 weapon slots.

And you sacrificed a massive amount of space in your inventory to hold the deci as an agile. Space you could use for ammo/glue/grenades/medikits.
By that thinking, a Rexo has 4 weapon slots.


On the loss of customization, I despise it. It's the biggest thing that's making me worried about the game. The new Tribes game removed it, and I hated it there, and I'll hate it here.

There was always a choice of what you wanted. Did I want an extra medkit, or more ammo, or more grenades, or an extra deci?

Now it's going to be flat and stale. You have this class, these weapons, this much ammo/grenades, bugger off. We've decided for you what you want.

Can I be an ammo mule? Can I just be a rezzer in a gen hold with hundreds and hundreds of juice and no ammo? Can I just setup to have maximum grenade launcher ammo and nothing more to defend a door?

Can I have my trophy locker of looted enemy HA?

and if everyone can carry Eng and Med then it kind of squeezed out those people that actually want to play a support role.

Then stay back and concentrate on supporting rather than shooting. You don't need a class name to tell you what to do.

[Sirisian]

And you sacrificed a massive amount of space in your inventory to hold the deci as an agile. Space you could use for ammo/glue/grenades/medikits.
By that thinking, a Rexo has 4 weapon slots.
More like 3. Right clicking switched with your primary gun I believe. I don't know anyone that needed 4. I carried a punisher, HSR, and single deci later on in the game since it turned out to be one of the best configurations for me. A cheap combination at that. Now we have classes to place sensible limitations on what weapons can be used. I'm a huge fan of spawning with 1 or 2 guns and utilities. You get too versatile if you have too much stuff.


Can I be an ammo mule? Can I just be a rezzer in a gen hold with hundreds and hundreds of juice and no ammo? Can I just setup to have maximum grenade launcher ammo and nothing more to defend a door?
To be fair we lack the information to say how ammo will be restricted. It's possible the medics will have unlimited health repair. For all we know engineers dispense ammo and allow you to have a gun. We've seen tons of grenade attachments. It sounds like we'll see different kinds of grenades. The amount you can carry hasn't been disclosed. Basically they could have everything you want already in there via their customization system. The whole idea with the class system is it can logically limit configurations to make multiple different loadouts work. Ideally these limitations will mirror the limitations the inventory system allowed but with a more sane system where weapon/utility slots mean something.

[CutterJohn]

Ideally these limitations will mirror the limitations the inventory system allowed but with a more sane system where weapon/utility slots mean something.

Agreed. Granted, they could have probably pulled it off with some alterations to armors as well, such as armor bonuses or penalties to certain gear(like a cloaking penalty if you held a rifle, or a healing buff if you had medic armor), and maybe another size or two of weapon slot(so it'd be pistol, smg, rifle, ha slots), but the class thing will work too. From the sounds of it its not even close to as restrictive as most classes in FPSs. You'll have a choice of multiple weapons and many upgrades/attachments for said weapons.

And we're still gaining a ton of vehicle customization, so on the whole I think we're coming out ahead.

[Shade Millith]

To be fair we lack the information to say how ammo will be restricted. It's possible the medics will have unlimited health repair. For all we know engineers dispense ammo and allow you to have a gun.

If it's like Battlefields unlimited ammo support magically carrying everything from pistol rounds to C4/LAW ammo that recharges, or the instant rezzing unlimited shock paddles, I'm done with PS2 permanently. Those things ruined the BF series for me.

[CutterJohn]

Don't think theres much chance of that, unless its a deployable. Doubt they want to enable infinite gen holds.

[CuddlyChud]

I trust SOE and the Dev team to make good decisions about their game. At least, better decision than I would make based on my non-existent knowledge of the game mechanics. I don't mind them taking out the inventory system and implementing a class system. Sorting my inventory was never a particularly fun or challenging experience. It was simply something I was forced to do everytime I shuffled my certs around. And ultimately everyone ran fairly similar loadouts anyway, so it didn't express too much personal taste. I don't mind SOE changing a lot of Planetside mechanics, since in my eyes Planetside 1 was a dying game the moment it released. There was something about the core gameplay that drove people away.

[Atuday]

A lot of the time when I played I used 4-5 different kits of items in planetside 1 depending on what the targets in the field were and at what ranges I would be fighting them. I think a lot of other people did the same thing keeping a handful of items in every class like REK or medigun. That said I will miss having a rexo sniper since the amount of ammo let me keep firing into a battle field for some time. Not to mention when a tank shows up to ruin my day I could switch to a lancer and blast it to bits with a bit of luck and some teammates to call on. OK a lot of luck.... Still it made it so I was a one man army. Having to rely on some one to shoot the tank or fire the sniper rifle for me is not something I look forward too cause I don't trust them to do it right. That said hopefully there will be more refined outfits and more weapon customization to make up for these losses.

[LongBow]

Honestly I'm looking forward to the class system, sure I might not get as many choices but the choices we do make are going to be far bigger!

The difference between my HA AI and my LA AI is going to be huge and the right answer will not always be the same .... sure a free form inventory gives plenty of flexibility but did you really play inventory Tetris even once a day?

[Madlaps]

I loved the inventory and no classes in ps1.

I hope there are still remnants of it in the sequel, maybe a max weight, no tetris and being able to stack items like ammo/grenades/medkits to your max weight. At least there is some customization in that.

As for classes, I'm dreading not being able to choose being a jack-of-all-infantry-trades, even if you sacrifice specialization.

[Shogun]

OK a lot of luck.... Still it made it so I was a one man army. Having to rely on some one to shoot the tank or fire the sniper rifle for me is not something I look forward too cause I don't trust them to do it right.

that´s the whole reason why the devs shifted to the class system.
because people always wanted to carry the best weapons for every situation at once. if you don´t want to rely on teammates, planetside is the wrong game for you and you should play singleplayergames or deathmatches.

removing the jack of all trades oneman armys is a good thing. but not being able to loadout with uncommon configurations still concerns me. i hope the deep customisation will make up for it, and we still get enough choices to change the classes to our playstyles.

[Qwan]

Sorry but im still kind of new to this sight, but let me get this straight, When i log in i am able to choose between, engineer, medic, scout and assault, depending on what my squad needed at the time. this sounds like BF2 and 3. I liked the set up from PS spending the certification points, and later being able to reset them as well. That was always the unique thing about the charactor layout of Planetside. I dont think that any charactor should get enough certs to be a god charactor, or a do all charactor, but i do like the ability to spend certs to upgrade a weapon that a charactor has access to. I mean if you heavy assault certified you have access to a thrasher, as you kill with the thrasher you can gain cert points making modifications like accuracy and fire power, as well as range. I really never had a problem of a cloaker being a healer, if that is what he spent his certs on and could fit it in his bag that was cool. Those were his certs points. Customization is what makes people want to play a game, knowing that hey i got this lvl 35 ninja/medic/sith/construction worker charactor which no one else has cause he's unique keeps the game interesting. Planetside gave you the options because it was always the way you spent your certs which made your charactor unique and special to the outfit.

[Madlaps]

Br20 when ps1 first came out.. If you wanted to cert into ha/av/eng/med you could, you just couldnt do much else or had to rely on others for good transport.. Aka not quads. If ps2 adopted a similar system, but as above.. The more you use a certain weapon/armor/vehicle you get some other kind of "points" that you can only spend to upgrade what you got them with. Also the level you have it certed with BR Certs affects how you can use the specialise points... Eg. Adv med can specialise greater or into better upgrades than a reg med which got it just for a bit of healing.

There, specialisation and generalisation. Everyones happy, lets start beta.

[EASyEightyEight]

Don't think so. I'm all for the class system.

The problem with even BR20 was that yes, it allowed Rexo/Ha/AV/med/engi all in one, and yes it did restrict access to vehicles and the like, but that was also hurting PS1.

In PS2, the very basic goal is to allow everyone the most basic forms of all methods of play. If the empire is seriously lacking air power, anyone can hop into their aircraft. They might not have the most spectacular craft, as it's just the stock model, but it will do. Vehicles in PS2 are like classes in their own right this time around. Further, no one needs to worry about rolling alts to experience other methods of play to their fullest.

Classes restrict infantry from being overly adaptable. Perhaps there may be SOME adaptability, (non-medics having single use med-kits, non heavy weapons guys having some method of mediocre anti-armor firepower, etc.) but every medic and engineer should hope there's someone with a rocket launcher nearby to handle the buzzards floating around the courtyard.

Customization now comes in the form of enhancing the abilities and attributes of classes. A player will now be capable of choosing to become a bad ass medic that can grant fellows and adrenaline boost and reviving them faster and with more health than an untrained medic, but his mossy/reaver/scythe isn't going to be pewpewing homing rockets and sporting cloaker detecting radar like the other guy's does.

The old system was a train wreck. All certs did was grant you access to the same $#!% everyone else had access to. A reaver was a reaver. Every time. It just came down to if someone wanted a reaver or not. It was an unnecessary restriction to game play. If someone really wanted a reaver, but couldn't fit it in with their precious rexo/HA/AV/med/engi selection, they rolled an alt and sat in that reaver the entire time they were playing that alt.

PS2 is taking the necessity of (same faction) alts out of the equation, and restricting OP combos so they can make the individual roles really shine through skill trees.

Sorry guys, but PS1's days are numbered. BFR's may have done their damage, but the game isn't in the shape it's in simply because of that. It's time to let go.

[Rbstr]

I'm A-OK with out a free form inventory. Make it more of menu options.

As an example a Heavy guy might get two slots, one a SMG/Carbine/Light AV sized thing and a big slot for a heavy weapon or big AV gun.
MA gets a rifle slot and the smaller slot
Recon might just get a rifle, cloakers might just get the small slot.
Everybody gets a pistol slot - you might get options on that too.
Everyone probably gets a grenade.

Then you can fiddle with some options, some class specific - like radar stealth or jump jets - and some general options - you can get an extra box of ammo for one weapon or an extra grenade or some stimpacks ect.

I don't know what the acctual classes are and how the armor setups change between them, this is just an example of the general framework I see working - rather similar to the BF games, but that system works pretty well.

I would like ammo to be more compartmentalized but not silly. Supply should also be limited. So the support dude can carry a couple boxes of "light ammo" so pistol, rifle rounds that can replenish a half squad or so. Then maybe one box of heavy ammo at the expense of something else (like only getting one light ammo box), the grenades, rockets, MAX ammo.

[Qwan]

Everyone wants to talk realistic combat and stuff. I was in the actual military, I was a combat medic, i am efficient in heavy weapons (machine guns ext), light weapons, and i can shoot and drive light armored vehicles, call in fire missions, as well as shoot rocket launchers. My job title in the Army was 11mic (Infantry) not medic, not mortor, not armor. Infantry is a jack of all trades, master of none. keep the certs guys its what made our charactors in PS1 who they were, i refuse to be a replica of everyone else.

[Rbstr]

This page hasn't said a thing about realism.

But if you want to go there: How many people carry a javelin and a SAW at the same time?
This isn't about qualifications for a job so much as limiting the number of jobs a person can carry at the same time.

[Qwan]

This page hasn't said a thing about realism.

But if you want to go there: How many people carry a javelin and a SAW at the same time?
This isn't about qualifications for a job so much as limiting the number of jobs a person can carry at the same time.

Your right i recant that last statement, but I did carry a 240 bravo and an AT-4. It can be done.

[Rbstr]

Your right i recant that last statement, but I did carry a 240 bravo and an AT-4. It can be done.

Did I stutter? I said Javelin. That's like 3 times as heavy as an At4.

[Princess Frosty]

I'm going to miss the ability for the infiltrator to expand in to other roles such as combat engineering, being able to do things like blow an enemy gen on your own because you could hack lockers and grab your boomers was really cool and allowed for a steep skill vs reward curve because if you're good enough to sneak past 100 people guarding a base then the payoff was significant.

I can only hope they replace this cross-class mixing which was popular with workable alternatives, the infiltrator would need some kind of det pack replacement. I'm less bothered about the jack of all trades rexos who carried health and engineering and god knows what, they were just dumbing down the teamwork requirement somewhat.

[Vash02]

People have been criticising the cert system because you cant customise with it. BS, of course you can incorporate customisation into the cert system. you apply it the exact same way as you would with classes.

The one man army argument is rather weak, you can solve that easily by a few tweaks to cert costs.

IMO classess are unnecessary hand holding, and the claim that the change has been made to improve teamwork is made a mockery of by the addition of one man army vehicles.

[Vash02]

Did I stutter? I said Javelin. That's like 3 times as heavy as an At4.
In the planetside universe, soldiers wear exo-armour and have the ability to carry much more weight than they would without it.

[CutterJohn]

In the planetside universe, soldiers wear exo-armour and have the ability to carry much more weight than they would without it.

I'm glad the cert system is gone. I hated being locked into a particular set of certs. I prefer people being able to do pretty much anything, just so long as they can't do it all at once.

[EASyEightyEight]

People have been criticising the cert system because you cant customise with it. BS, of course you can incorporate customisation into the cert system. you apply it the exact same way as you would with classes.

The one man army argument is rather weak, you can solve that easily by a few tweaks to cert costs.

IMO classess are unnecessary hand holding, and the claim that the change has been made to improve teamwork is made a mockery of by the addition of one man army vehicles.

Like what? HA costs 8 points, AV 6 points, engi 6 points, med 6 points and rexo 4 points? MA might still cost 2 by the way.

The definition of a "one man army" WAS the rexo/ha/av/med/engi set up, which was done with a mere 18 points. I can't wear all that when piloting an aircraft or a tank, they brought their own restrictions by default.

At BR20, players had 23 cert points. That's easily one or two additional weapon and/or vehicle certs, depending on costs.

2 = MA
4 = HA
3 = AV
3 = Engi
3 = Med
3 = Rexo

+3 = Sniper
+2 = Quad

There, completely self reliable. That's the one many army.

Classes are intended to section all that, so that no one can be a one man army.

[Vash02]

Like what? HA costs 8 points, AV 6 points, engi 6 points, med 6 points and rexo 4 points? MA might still cost 2 by the way.

The definition of a "one man army" WAS the rexo/ha/av/med/engi set up, which was done with a mere 18 points. I can't wear all that when piloting an aircraft or a tank, they brought their own restrictions by default.

At BR20, players had 23 cert points. That's easily one or two additional weapon and/or vehicle certs, depending on costs.

2 = MA
4 = HA
3 = AV
3 = Engi
3 = Med
3 = Rexo

+3 = Sniper
+2 = Quad

There, completely self reliable. That's the one many army.

Classes are intended to section all that, so that no one can be a one man army.
..., you had it for the first paragrapgh but then lost it.

[EASyEightyEight]

..., you had it for the first paragrapgh but then lost it.

No, you just couldn't follow along.

Let me make it simple for you:

It doesn't matter if someone can pull a tank, a galaxy, a reaver, rexo, a minigun, bazooka, rifle, sniper rifle, medgun, engi tool, and demolitions...

As long as they can't pull it all at the same time.

[Raymac]

IMO classess are unnecessary hand holding, and the claim that the change has been made to improve teamwork is made a mockery of by the addition of one man army vehicles.

I don't think classes are "hand holding" at all. It has more to do with balancing out the roles. Just ask anyone that wanted to be a medic in PS1. Everyone carried their own med app which made the medic's role extremely limited.

Also, your rhetoric is a freakin joke with the whole "teamwork is made a mockery of by 1 man army vehicles". The vehicles are not 1-man army. Just try to be a 1-man army in your tank while my reaver is in the air. I beg you. I could use the easy kills. So tone down that "teamwork is dead" garbage.

[Vash02]

No, you just couldn't follow along.

Let me make it simple for you:

It doesn't matter if someone can pull a tank, a galaxy, a reaver, rexo, a minigun, bazooka, rifle, sniper rifle, medgun, engi tool, and demolitions...

As long as they can't pull it all at the same time.

The whole point of the cert system is that it allows you to kit yourself out to specialise in an area to the detriment of others. if the infantry method was too powerful than the prices can be tweaked so they are forced to make a decision between heal/repair themselves or the big gun.
I dont believe we should dump a good system simply because the PS1 cert prices were too cheap.

Instead now we are forced into this cookie cutter style classes and have lost a huge amount of freedom.

[Raymac]

The whole point of the cert system is that it allows you to kit yourself out to specialise in an area to the detriment of others. if the infantry method was too powerful than the prices can be tweaked so they are forced to make a decision between heal/repair themselves or the big gun.
I dont believe we should dump a good system simply because the PS1 cert prices were too cheap.

Instead now we are forced into this cookie cutter style classes and have lost a huge amount of freedom.

You make a good point, but for the sake of debate, let's say HA costs 16 pts and AV costs 16 pts. That means you would be locked in to 1 or the other forever. You would never get to try the other weapon out. So to fix that, you have a cert wipe or sell it back like in PS1, but you are still locked in for a full day or 12 hours or however long you need to make it so is effective.

I prefer a system where you can switch whenever you want, but you still can't do them all at the same time. It gives players much more freedom while still removing the 1-man army default loadout problem.

[EASyEightyEight]

The whole point of the cert system is that it allows you to kit yourself out to specialise in an area to the detriment of others. if the infantry method was too powerful than the prices can be tweaked so they are forced to make a decision between heal/repair themselves or the big gun.
I dont believe we should dump a good system simply because the PS1 cert prices were too cheap.

Instead now we are forced into this cookie cutter style classes and have lost a huge amount of freedom.

So wait... you're okay with weapons and equipment being so expensive the "freedom" of choice is extremely limited, and only limited to those few choices for the characters life, but allowing anyone access to anything, only the equipment they have access to is pre-emptively sectioned into classes is killing the freedom of choice?

There's far more free form choice in picking to be a medic, an engi, or a heavy weapons guy when one deems them necessary than there is in taking HA, med, and Rexo, and only ever having access to those because you no longer have other cert points to spend for anything else because you're capped.

And there will be specialists. Make no mistake. The skill training system encourages players to work on a tree or trees that support their preferred play style, none of which are likely to be fully trained by the end of the month according to SOE's prior claims.

The old system was archaic, and simple. There was no depth to it.

[Vash02]

I don't think classes are "hand holding" at all. It has more to do with balancing out the roles. Just ask anyone that wanted to be a medic in PS1. Everyone carried their own med app which made the medic's role extremely limited.
You can add in more options for the medic, as T-Ray puts it, "customisation". The base tool can be a slow healer while the improved tool can be much faster and have more abilities.


Also, your rhetoric is a freakin joke with the whole "teamwork is made a mockery of by 1 man army vehicles". The vehicles are not 1-man army. Just try to be a 1-man army in your tank while my reaver is in the air. I beg you. I could use the easy kills. So tone down that "teamwork is dead" garbage.

yay quote mined! next time take the full sentence and not the just the parts that are convenient to your point.

the point is even if the tank is a 2 man vehicle, being AA and AV, (who would want AI when AV will explode infantry just as well) its a one tank army.
I also could make the claim that no one could try be a one man army in PS1 with a lasher in my hands.

[Sirisian]

You can add in more options for the medic, as T-Ray puts it, "customisation". The base tool can be a slow healer while the improved tool can be much faster and have more abilities.
They mentioned a healing rifle. Not sure if they were joking. :lol:

[Vash02]

So wait... you're okay with weapons and equipment being so expensive the "freedom" of choice is extremely limited, and only limited to those few choices for the characters life, but allowing anyone access to anything, only the equipment they have access to is pre-emptively sectioned into classes is killing the freedom of choice?

There's far more free form choice in picking to be a medic, an engi, or a heavy weapons guy when one deems them necessary than there is in taking HA, med, and Rexo, and only ever having access to those because you no longer have other cert points to spend for anything else because you're capped.

And there will be specialists. Make no mistake. The skill training system encourages players to work on a tree or trees that support their preferred play style, none of which are likely to be fully trained by the end of the month according to SOE's prior claims.

The old system was archaic, and simple. There was no depth to it.

You can reassign cert points, they are not fixed in place permantly.

[Qwan]

I just hope that there cert system, isnt set up like BF3, from what im reading thats what it sounds like. I have a choice of what class i wanna be before i spawn, as i lvl up that class, I can then unlock certain skills right, is that what im hearing.

[Raymac]

yay quote mined! next time take the full sentence and not the just the parts that are convenient to your point.

the point is even if the tank is a 2 man vehicle, being AA and AV, (who would want AI when AV will explode infantry just as well) its a one tank army.
I also could make the claim that no one could try be a one man army in PS1 with a lasher in my hands.

I did quote the full sentence. I didn't cherry pick. I'm not trying to be a jerk, so please correct me if I was wrong. It appeared that your point was that the arguement that the new class system promotes teamwork is diminshed by tank pilots controlling the main gun. Your further clarification of 2-man tank crews being 1-man armies does sound like a contradiction to me. I know what you mean, but you can see why that arguement doesn't hold water for me.

Also to your point about the certs...

You make a good point, but for the sake of debate, let's say HA costs 16 pts and AV costs 16 pts. That means you would be locked in to 1 or the other forever. You would never get to try the other weapon out. So to fix that, you have a cert wipe or sell it back like in PS1, but you are still locked in for a full day or 12 hours or however long you need to make it so is effective.

I prefer a system where you can switch whenever you want, but you still can't do them all at the same time. It gives players much more freedom while still removing the 1-man army default loadout problem.

So even if you can reassign them just like in PS1, you are still going to be locked in for a substantial amount of time.

[Vash02]

I did quote the full sentence. I didn't cherry pick. I'm not trying to be a jerk, so please correct me if I was wrong. It appeared that your point was that the arguement that the new class system promotes teamwork is diminshed by tank pilots controlling the main gun. Your further clarification of 2-man tank crews being 1-man armies does sound like a contradiction to me. I know what you mean, but you can see why that arguement doesn't hold water for me.


Sorry you did quote me in full, my brain skips over my own words sometimes.
What I meant to say that restricting infantry to classes while allowing single tanks to have both AV and AA/AV/AI is a contradiction in their stated aims to improve teamwork.


So even if you can reassign them just like in PS1, you are still going to be locked in for a substantial amount of time.
You can make a different character then, just as you would in PS1. Though I'm not sure how PS2's character limits are going to work.

[Sirisian]

I just hope that there cert system, isnt set up like BF3, from what im reading thats what it sounds like. I have a choice of what class i wanna be before i spawn, as i lvl up that class, I can then unlock certain skills right, is that what im hearing.
You have a choice when you spawn, but you can also change your class by going to a terminal. You do not "level" up a class. You level up your player and with that you can choose to train skills below your level that unlock. It is a very similar system with a few things in place to make it a more drawn out process. As a F2P game they needed a system that will keep people playing for a long time. You train faster when you play. The exact details of how that works hasn't been explained.

I only play BF3 a few days during the beta. Their unlock system was identical to the BF 2142 system that worked alright. The whole idea is that as you play you unlock things so the game continues to be fun instead of getting stale. There sidegrades concept in theory is designed to keep players from feeling like they're unlocking advantages. It's an interesting concept. You kind of have to put yourself in their shoes and think of a way to keep people playing while keeping in mind that the upgrade model is extremely powerful and can keep most gamers addicted for a longer time than if you just give them everything at the start.

[Raymac]

You can make a different character then, just as you would in PS1. Though I'm not sure how PS2's character limits are going to work.

I don't think making an alt and splitting your stats and creating a whole new name, etc. is a better solution though.

Plus, then you have to take the time to log out and log back in, spend time going all the way back to the fight, and joining back up with your squad. Then by the time you do all that, you may not need AV. So you log back out to switch back to your HA character? No thanks. Classes that you can switch at a terminal are a much cleaner solution I think.

[Vash02]

Well its what you pay for when you specialise too much.

[texico]

I think my point with the inventory was more to do with being able to store and manipulate items. The mechanics of that don't necessarily have to be attached to your holsters and ammo slots, but somehow you should be able to have storage space - customizing a backpack on to your character maybe. The reason is that manipulating items and equipment was a skill in itself, but it was also very interactive with the environment and with the battle. Online games like Halo 1 didn't feel like you had interactions with the environment or battle beyond you firing. You couldn't pick up equipment (besides weapons), you couldn't manipulate ammo, you couldn't store extra equipment in places (vehicles), you couldn't make strategic decisions about what you would carry, you couldn't share equipment you had with others... you could do all these things in PS1 simply because you had an inventory, and it felt very interactive with the environment and other people around you, and I think PS2 could have expanded on that, but at the very least preserved it. Perhaps the way inventory storage was also directly attached to your combat slowed thing downs or was irritating but they can easily be two separate mechanics. And maybe this is somehow achieved in a different way, but I don't know how (using items as a gameplay mechanic obviously requires people to be able to store and manipulate them).


Back on classes. I understand that the one-man army may have been a problem because not only was it clearly the most advantageous way to play but it was also widespread. But it was only a problem that people could do everything. It was never a problem that people could do multiple things. For example, I keep going back to the cloaking point (because that's the one we actually have a quote from). TRay clearly states "medics heal, cloakers hide." It's pretty clear that people are going to be restricted to their roles while they're in-battle.

But I don't think it was really a problem that cloakers could heal and lay mines. It was a problem that a soldier in a tower could use Rexo, HA, AV, Medical, Engineering, MA and SA. But it wasn't a problem that one could use HA, Medical and Engineering because they'd still depend on people for AV. As long as any one person can't do everything at once, I don't see why they can't fulfill multiple roles (lets say 2, or 3).

As I've said, I still think the best route would be to give benefits to those who choose to specialize (for example, maybe certificates that stick to one skill tree cost 1 cert-point, whereas once players start having certificates in multiple skill trees those certificates cost 2 cert-points, and so players trying to generalize too much can only have access to half as many certificates on their character, or maybe characters with specialized certs earn twice as much xp and can move down trees faster).

However, if classes have to stick, I think you should be able to fulfill multiple classes at once (2 or 3), so at least that way you can decide how you need to combine your 3 classes for what you need to achieve and who's available to support you where your short. In that instance, a cloaker can still heal themselves and place CE but can't hack.


Remember, while it's true that specialization is good to be encourage in front line battles, it's not entirely true of everything. Some classes need to be self-sustaining. Cloakers can't depend on friendlies to heal them who can compromise their position, or people to hack terminals for them. Lone snipers can't depend on somebody else laying mines for them to protect them from vehicles. If there was a scout-style class, the same would apply. Some roles need self-sustaining. And then, even in the battlefield, depending on others isn't always a good thing and can be a quick way to frustration, like the Medic in TF2 who abandons healing you to heal that heavy, or the one who tries to heal you when you're disguised as an enemy, or the engineer who moves destroys his sentry that was the only thing stopping the enemy coming and killing you.

I don't think that soldiers should be completely self-sufficient and able to do everything, but I think that should be at least 50%-75% self-sufficient if that's how they choose to set themselves up.

[SKYeXile]

Like what? HA costs 8 points, AV 6 points, engi 6 points, med 6 points and rexo 4 points? MA might still cost 2 by the way.

The definition of a "one man army" WAS the rexo/ha/av/med/engi set up, which was done with a mere 18 points. I can't wear all that when piloting an aircraft or a tank, they brought their own restrictions by default.

At BR20, players had 23 cert points. That's easily one or two additional weapon and/or vehicle certs, depending on costs.

2 = MA
4 = HA
3 = AV
3 = Engi
3 = Med
3 = Rexo

+3 = Sniper
+2 = Quad

There, completely self reliable. That's the one many army.

Classes are intended to section all that, so that no one can be a one man army.

God forbid we make a game where people are self reliant and teamwork is based of tactics and focus firing and not reliance on each other for heals, it was a great thing about planetside, if you're better than 5 people, you kill them all... at once..provided you have an MCG or JH... not have to run because your classes hard counter is coming and there is shit all you can do about stopping it.

i also dont see what the class system is going to solve when everybody is going to have access to EVERY VEHICLE, there is no need for a engi tool andyou likely self heal, and you can change at an instance to anything you like a terminal, you will see assaults running around with nothing short of a SMG/AV, i guarantee it.

without a limitation to how many vehicles you can operate, limits on the amount of classes you can use and how many specialisations into those classes you can have access to at one time i cant see it been much better.

[Shade Millith]

The old system was a train wreck. All certs did was grant you access to the same $#!% everyone else had access to. A reaver was a reaver. Every time. It just came down to if someone wanted a reaver or not.

This was one of the biggest draws of PS1 for me.

This is a FPS, not an RPG. If two guys held a gun, they would always be equal. I liked not having +10 Accuracy, +5 Damage. If I wanted that, I'd start playing WOW, and stock up on +30 Fire Damage equipment for my Mage.

Direct upgrades in power are just wrong in an FPS, it should be about skill. Sidegrades (Trading accuracy for damage, or vice versa) are fine, but no upgrades.

[EASyEightyEight]

God forbid we make a game where people are self reliant and teamwork is based of tactics and focus firing and not reliance on each other for heals, it was a great thing about planetside, if you're better than 5 people, you kill them all... at once..provided you have an MCG or JH... not have to run because your classes hard counter is coming and there is shit all you can do about stopping it.

i also dont see what the class system is going to solve when everybody is going to have access to EVERY VEHICLE, there is no need for a engi tool andyou likely self heal, and you can change at an instance to anything you like a terminal, you will see assaults running around with nothing short of a SMG/AV, i guarantee it.

without a limitation to how many vehicles you can operate, limits on the amount of classes you can use and how many specialisations into those classes you can have access to at one time i cant see it been much better.

You're looking at it poorly.

Consider you're on the field, and X comes at you in a reaver. You kill the reaver. A few moments later, Y comes up to you in a tank, and since you're equipped to handle tanks, you successfully destroy his dumb ass. Then Z comes up with a minigun and a big ol' suit of armor, and you own even him pretty hard.

Can you guess whom X, Y, and Z are?

The exact. Same. Person.

Once we're playing the game, we won't be concerning ourselves with remembering every single individual on the battlefield, and what they can do. There should be too many individuals to even bother. What you can count on is that if you bring an abundance of aircraft, expect a whole lot of AA to counter that without anything on your end to counter the AA. It's a more dynamic combined arms.

More importantly, it doesn't change your perception of every target on the field being it's own, individual entity.

So stop worrying about the fact that everyone can do everything. You can too, and they don't fucking care. At least... the non-vets don't.

[Raymac]

This was one of the biggest draws of PS1 for me.

This is a FPS, not an RPG. If two guys held a gun, they would always be equal. I liked not having +10 Accuracy, +5 Damage. If I wanted that, I'd start playing WOW, and stock up on +30 Fire Damage equipment for my Mage.

Direct upgrades in power are just wrong in an FPS, it should be about skill. Sidegrades (Trading accuracy for damage, or vice versa) are fine, but no upgrades.

While it's a bit early to speak with much certainty about the sidegrades / upgrades, I think it's a bit over the top to start saying it will be WoW. It's an FPS. You're not going to have Auto-Attack. Plus, we did have types of upgrades in PS1. Take for example a player that has the Personal Shield or 2nd Wind implant versus someone that hasn't unlocked it yet because they were under BR6. That was a fairly large advantage.

[dsi]

The lack of customization is a terrible thing in Tribes: Ascend, hopefully it isn't so in PS2 as well. Classes can co-exist with an inventory system, why shouldn't I be able to scour bodies on the field to assist me/my allies?

[CutterJohn]

This was one of the biggest draws of PS1 for me.

This is a FPS, not an RPG. If two guys held a gun, they would always be equal. I liked not having +10 Accuracy, +5 Damage. If I wanted that, I'd start playing WOW, and stock up on +30 Fire Damage equipment for my Mage.

Direct upgrades in power are just wrong in an FPS, it should be about skill. Sidegrades (Trading accuracy for damage, or vice versa) are fine, but no upgrades.

Sure, but they won't be giving us +10 damage. We'll be unlocking a barrel or ammo upgrade that gives +1 damage. At which point its no longer the same gun. Same effect as HA vs MA.


The lack of customization is a terrible thing in Tribes: Ascend, hopefully it isn't so in PS2 as well. Classes can co-exist with an inventory system, why shouldn't I be able to scour bodies on the field to assist me/my allies?


Classes will coexist with some sort of inventory system. You'll still have a choice of what weapon to use, what to upgrade the weapon with, and what equipment to use. It just won't be a freeform MMO inventory, and will have some restrictions.

[Shade Millith]

Sure, but they won't be giving us +10 damage. We'll be unlocking a barrel or ammo upgrade that gives +1 damage. At which point its no longer the same gun. Same effect as HA vs MA.

MA was longer range and more accurate.

HA had higher damage.

Two different weapons for different situations. One wasn't just simply 'better' than the other. I would even consider the Suppressor as a sidegrade. It had less power then MA, but had even higher accuracy.

What I don't want is two players (In the field, so using MA), having a show down, but ones MA simply does 5 damage more per hit because he's been playing longer. Keep the weapons equal, no matter who you are (Or side grade), and keep the game to who's better. Not who's been playing longer.

[CutterJohn]

Keep the weapons equal, no matter who you are (Or side grade), and keep the game to who's better. Not who's been playing longer.

So unlike PS1 then. Got it. Because the players weren't equal. The implants directly correlated to greater effectiveness in combat, and were limited by level.

I dont really care though. If some tanker guy, who has concentrated on tanks completely, has a small numerical advantage, whatever. No biggy. He'll get paid back when he goes grunting. Obviously I'd agree with you in theory, but I can't find myself getting too worked up over player imbalance anymore, and its going to happen anyway regardless of my wishes.

[SKYeXile]

So unlike PS1 then. Got it. Because the players weren't equal. The implants directly correlated to greater effectiveness in combat, and were limited by level.

I dont really care though. If some tanker guy, who has concentrated on tanks completely, has a small numerical advantage, whatever. No biggy. He'll get paid back when he goes grunting. Obviously I'd agree with you in theory, but I can't find myself getting too worked up over player imbalance anymore, and its going to happen anyway regardless of my wishes.

considering they have said up to 20% player power increase, its quite possible that the 6 damage pallet becomes a 7 damage pallet. Do i Care? not really.

[Shade Millith]

So unlike PS1 then. Got it. Because the players weren't equal. The implants directly correlated to greater effectiveness in combat, and were limited by level.

Personally, I didn't like the idea of getting implants for BR rank. I would have just had the 3 implant spots open from the start.

[Princess Frosty]

The problem with small numerical advantages is they can quickly become a much greater advantage in game. Imagine 2 tanks that each deal say 33 damage per shot to each other, such a gun takes 4 hits to kill a full health opponent.

If you increase the power of that gun from 33 to 34 that's approximately a 3% increase in power, however the number of hits needed to kill an enemy drops from 4 to 3 which is a 25% increase in effective power on the battlefield.

[Draep]

So unlike PS1 then. Got it. Because the players weren't equal. The implants directly correlated to greater effectiveness in combat, and were limited by level.

That's a stretch. Most implants gave you indirect advantages, except for personal shield and that one that gives you health when you're too low. Even personal shield was side-grady, as it drained stamina.

Edit: Ohlookitsthisthreadagain.jpg starring the participants of the last 30 threads on this topic

[EVILoHOMER]

Would I be sorry to see the Inventory go like how it was in Planetside? No because as I remember it you'd run up to a term to equip from the quick slots anyways, you didn't pick out weapons and ammo one by one. Also the annoying thing used to be how you'd have to change armour type to get your armour back to 100%. You'd also have to keep selecting a loadout with med packs and use them constantly to heal up if you didn't have the cert for that healing thing, forgot the name of it all as you can tell lol. I just didn't find the system fun and I thought the cert system was so flawed and unfun.

I'd prefer a TF2 like system where all the classes are so unique, have their own look and play very differently. You'll be able to pick any class you want before you spawn and get right into the action. I'd really love unlocks and stuff to work the same way and a crafting system where you have to sacrifice good items on a chance to make even better stuff.

Then I'd love the whole Battlelog stats and ranking system so you can progress or even move down the ladder so you have this dynamic ranking system.


The old Planetside Cert and Inventory system quickly became pointless and didn't allow for unique styles of play like balanced classes would.

[Metalsheep]

Im sad to see the Freeform inventory system go. I loved coming up with odd, but useful load outs or loading extra equipment into the trunks of my vehicles. I never carried a Nano Dispenser in my Agile load out, i just had a vehicle favorite saved with one in the trunk with glue or other equipment.

I'd like to see the Free Form inventory stay, but also be limited to your class. So you could only select and choose equipment from your class. I know i'll miss looting bodies for ammo and med kits or using enemy empires weapons when i ran out of my own ammo.

[texico]

Would I be sorry to see the Inventory go like how it was in Planetside? No because as I remember it you'd run up to a term to equip from the quick slots anyways, you didn't pick out weapons and ammo one by one.

That's just an ease of configuration issue though. The point is with the inventory you could decide for yourself what was going to be on your persona. You picked out weapons and ammo yourself, it was just saved for convenience. There's no reason why if it needed to speed up, you could choose your load out before you spawned.

Also the annoying thing used to be how you'd have to change armour type to get your armour back to 100%.

How is that going to change by them removing the inventory? You'll still have armour. Unless your referring to armour being replaced with shields, which I'm for btw, and that's not really anything to do with not having an inventory. But engineers are there to repair you, or you have engineering yourself.

You'd also have to keep selecting a loadout with med packs and use them constantly to heal up if you didn't have the cert for that healing thing, forgot the name of it all as you can tell lol.

Why would that change by removing inventories anyway? In fact, that's going to be more awkward with PS2 - you can't even choose the cert for healing if your class is different, so unless there's a medic around, you'd have to keep using med packs from a terminal, assuming med packs are even in (which is the same scenario as in PS1)


I just didn't find the system fun and I thought the cert system was so flawed and unfun.

I'd prefer a TF2 like system where all the classes are so unique, have their own look and play very differently. You'll be able to pick any class you want before you spawn and get right into the action.

But that's the thing, the uniqueness might be there, but the variety is not. You've got 1 of only 9 classes. That means every single person in TF2 (thousands?) is a cookie-cutter copy of only 9 different frames.

In PS1, everybody has their own unique quirks and styles and variations. Generally everyone organizes themselves into one of a number of different informal "classes" but this was a natural, player-driven phenomenon which emerged out of player and game variables. The result was you got a very natural distribution and blending of different roles for the situations at hand.

I'd really love unlocks and stuff to work the same way and a crafting system where you have to sacrifice good items on a chance to make even better stuff.



Then I'd love the whole Battlelog stats and ranking system so you can progress or even move down the ladder so you have this dynamic ranking system.


The old Planetside Cert and Inventory system quickly became pointless and didn't allow for unique styles of play like balanced classes would.

Really? It seems to me like it offered a lot more uniqueness and ability to gear your style of play towards a given situation. Classes only let you fulfill (in TF2's case) 9 different roles, pretty much by definition.






I can even draw graphs out of player distributions in PlanetSide 1 compared to your typical class-based FPS.

http://i42.tinypic.com/ezk1w6.jpg


From my experience, this graph shows how people generally organize themselves in PlanetSide 1. Everyone, based on their own skills, their own vision of themselves and the equipment available, generally organized themselves into these classes. The spaces in between the classes are where people have mixed classes in particular ways based on their choice and the given situation - there would be loads of slightly different classes-combos between the main classes. You'd also get weird classes at the extremes (people running around just carrying supplies and dropping them in towers for friendlies, for example).

Yeah, the super-soldier class was a problem, and should have been flattened out somehow, but generally people organized themselves into roles naturally. And remember some roles called for less people anyway (a medic can heal many soldiers at once, so fewer medics than soldiers is normal).


Now, here's the distribution of players for TF2.

http://i42.tinypic.com/30symvt.jpg


This is what I'm afraid of. Everyone is one of any of the 9 classes. There's no mixed-classes in between classes, and there's no obscure classes of extreme support/attack. Basically there's no variety, only 9 cookie-cutter choices. In PS1 there might be 5-10 class-blends between the main classes, and even the definition of the main classes wasn't exactly stable because people had their own ideas of what a "cloaker" was, and so changed things slightly accordingly.


Now, I know PS2's class system won't be as compartmentalised as TF2. But, at least at the moment, it does seem that the classes will fulfill their roles alone, and while they'll get lots of toys to play with, they'll still be kept to their class (as in the "cloakers hide, not heal" example).

[SKYeXile]

texico, heres some real stats, do with them what you like, lets not make-up figures though :P

Mind you these are taken from specific Air outfits, some stats are skewed.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/SKYeXile/TR.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/SKYeXile/NC.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/SKYeXile/VS.jpg

[EVILoHOMER]

From my experience it was.

Noobs went MAX

Pilots went Agile

Everyone else went Exo with armour and health kits, one AV/AA and a HE...


Then you went into third person all the time to look round corners and use that sprint.

[TheBladeRoden]

Shoulda made Rexo with one 9x3 slot and one 6x3 slot, instead of two 9x3 slots.

[polywomple]

Man I hope it's nothing like BFBC 2, where you chose some assault class or some shit. And you were given a rifle with 4 magazines and 2-3 grenades for your attachment, 2 hand nades and some special thing whatever.

Man it was boring as fuck

Even unlocking a new rifle or whatever it was the same thing.

[wasdie]

Coming from somebody who never played Planetside 1 because I didn't have a powerful enough PC to play at the time, I can say it doesn't sound like it makes that big of a difference.

A class based system is something I know from many other games. This can only make PS2 much easier to pick up and get used to.

However I've seen some very deep class based systems. Ever major MMO seems to have one, even if they are RPGs. You can have very specific roles as well as hybrid rolls.

The advantage for this game is that I as well as a lot of new players will be able to pick up the game quickly and enjoy it while the game doesn't seem to suffer any significant loss of depth. This will allow them to expand the player base and keep it going for long.

I may not have played Planetside 1 but I played the hell out of the other MMOFPS on the market called WWII Online and I know how dull a game like this gets when numbers dwindle. They need to do whatever they can to get new players and keep them.

[polywomple]

I'm all for noob friendly but when it pointlessly takes away FREEDOM of choice for any player then no

I'll be honest, I had no idea what the fuck I was doing when I first played PS1. I was one of those guys that chose the suppressor loaded with AP ammo, but I loved being able to choose the equipment I wanted, as opposed to BFBC2's extreme cookie cutter classes.

I'm not completely opposed to classes, but make it versatile. If I want 12 grenades or 15 rockets for my attachment or none at all then let me do it.

[wasdie]

I'm all for noob friendly but when it pointlessly takes away FREEDOM of choice for any player then no

I'll be honest, I had no idea what the fuck I was doing when I first played PS1. I was one of those guys that chose the suppressor loaded with AP ammo, but I loved being able to choose the equipment I wanted, as opposed to BFBC2's extreme cookie cutter classes.

I'm not completely opposed to classes, but make it versatile. If I want 12 grenades or 15 rockets for my attachment or none at all then let me do it.
From the developers point of view, balance goes right out the window.

I know how people always want stuff to be exactly how they remember it in every way, but they are so quick to forget the problems that came with those systems. While I never played PS1, just from my time playing ArmA and ArmA 2 which also have a free form inventory system, I can see hundreds if not thousands of balance problems.

Tribes Ascend ditched an inventory system for the class system as well because it works better with the F2P model and it is many times easier to balance. The quicker and more efficient they can balance it, the more time they can spend on implementing new gear and equipment.

[Warborn]

I think this is just fine. Certainly restricting weapons by class is fine, and restricting the number of weapons you can carry is fine as well. What's left after that? Deciding how many boxes of what ammo to bring? Oh no, our FREEDOM is being taken away! Capital letters and everything! I think people will get over this awfully fast.

[Hmr85]

I'm fine with it as long as its done right. But as of now I see no issues with it.

[Raymac]

Balance > Tetris mini-game

[polywomple]

I think this is just fine. Certainly restricting weapons by class is fine, and restricting the number of weapons you can carry is fine as well. What's left after that? Deciding how many boxes of what ammo to bring? Oh no, our FREEDOM is being taken away! Capital letters and everything! I think people will get over this awfully fast.

where did I say those weren't fine? you need to read my post again

[DaddyTickles]

I wonder if the "shop" will sell alternative loadouts?

[DayOne]

Classes will be fine so long as they are done right. Battlefield's method of classes would make no sense in PS.

What they need is to restrict classes by armour, then weapons based on that. So ,for example, with a heavy gunner class you get a suit of heavy armour, you can now carry big guns with lots of ammo because you are strong and manly. With the recon class you get a light armour set so you can only carry small weapons like the suppressor, maybe assault rifles too but nothing too big. But you are also now light and agile and make very little sound while moving!

If it's done right and makes sense then it's fine, it's when it comes to something along the lines of "why can't my support guy carry an assault rifle?" then I have a problem with it.

[Crazyduckling]

Entire thread is TL;DR.

I'm totally okay with the elimination of free form. We will be able to re-equip at terms (I think we can...considering we'll be able to change classes while we're alive I think...again...).

With the faster pace of combat, it becomes less relevant. Also, I'm sure there will still be customization. Instead of 3 boxes of ammo, + med kit + rek +etc. We'll be able to use side grades to determine if we get an extra clip or -1 clip for something else in return...just like in PS1 but without the inventory mini-game.

[Vash02]

I find the "because its easier to balance" arguments a bit meh. Why should we care if its hard to balance or not. We are paying for the game (well the store customers/premiums are at least), why should we accept a game with less depth just to let the devs put their feet up earlier.

[EVILoHOMER]

I don't remember anyone being Unique in Planetside and playing TF2 with set classes everyone can be unique with what they wear and even how they play. I cannot name 9 active rolls people played in Planetside, everyone just went Exo + Armour/healing + HA/AV and that was it. The was no real diversity in the gameplay, MAX units were usless apart from the AA ones which made Pilots useless. Cloakers existed but they were useless, I never remembered them having a meaningful roll.

The Cert system failed, I never thought of Planetside and thought it was a strength like I thought the skill box system in SWG was. What I remember Planetside for was the massive battles and how long it took to get into the action.

So what would I like from Planetside 2?

Bigger battles and to make them Battles be quicker to get to!


Give me 9 different classes like TF2 has and the game will feel more diverse than Planetside ever did.

[Vash02]

Way to over-simplify PS1 homer.

Some loudouts I have used over the years:
Driver
Medic
Engineer
Heavy assault
Rifleman
Special Assault
Generator defence
Sniper
Hotdropper
Pistol cloaker
Boomer cloaker
Hacker cloaker
Support
MAXes

The reason the cert system was a success was that a player on day one could take on a grizzled veteran on equal terms. In the PS2 system now its seems the veteran has a 20% advantage over the new guy.

And yes cloakers did play a crucial role in PS1 either through sneaking in a router pad into a difficult base, taking out a bases generator or planting viruses into bases.

[Aurmanite]

Way to over-simplify PS1 homer.

Some loudouts I have used over the years:
Driver
Medic
Engineer
Heavy assault
Rifleman
Special Assault
Generator defence
Sniper
Hotdropper
Pistol cloaker
Boomer cloaker
Hacker cloaker
Support
MAXes

The reason the cert system was a success was that a player on day one could take on a grizzled veteran on equal terms. In the PS2 system now its seems the veteran has a 20% advantage over the new guy.

And yes cloakers did play a crucial role in PS1 either through sneaking in a router pad into a difficult base, taking out a bases generator or planting viruses into bases.

You could accomplish three of all of those roles with one cookie cutter cert build. It wasn't like at one point you were a 'medic' and then a 'heavy assault', and then an 'engineer'. You had Med/Ma(/ha)/engineer/x/x/x/x. Insert cloak/Rexo/MAX/Vehicle and you have the limit of customization the cert tree offered.

To me, it sounds like you're trying to fuse inventory and the cert system which are two vastly different things. And to be honest, if you didn't use a cookie cutter inventory build then you were only hurting your combat effectiveness.

So no, Homer isn't over simplifying. He's spittin real.

EDIT:
To address the 20% advantage a veteran 'will have' over a new guy, you're thinking of power in the wrong way. A veteran with HA/Rexo/Med/Engineer/AV/other fun certs, is certainly 20% more powerful than someone starting fresh.

[AshOck]

These changes seem to be oriented at simplifying the game in order to appeal to a larger group of people. Not only to make it simpler to handle your own character but easier on the battlefield against others.

Example: If you try to sneak up on a sniper you can be sure he wont surprise you by pulling out a JH if he detects you coming in time.

Personally, I don't like these new systems at all. :mad:

I enjoyed the tough learning curve of ps1. I enjoyed the diversity of weapons I could use at any one time and I think the whole super soldier argument is weak at best since even in ps1, given your inventory space limitations, you could never have been prepared for all possible combat situations.

These changes also raises some questions..specifically: Will we not be able to loot and use enemy weapons anymore? ..and if we can, wont we have lockers to store them in? :huh:

[Coreldan]

I believe it was confirmed long ago that taking other empire's weapons is out.

[AshOck]

I believe it was confirmed long ago that taking other empire's weapons is out.

Did they give any reason for this or is it just a side effect of not having free-form inventory?

[IronMole]

I don't remember anyone being Unique in Planetside and playing TF2 with set classes everyone can be unique with what they wear and even how they play. I cannot name 9 active rolls people played in Planetside, everyone just went Exo + Armour/healing + HA/AV and that was it. The was no real diversity in the gameplay, MAX units were usless apart from the AA ones which made Pilots useless. Cloakers existed but they were useless, I never remembered them having a meaningful roll.

The Cert system failed, I never thought of Planetside and thought it was a strength like I thought the skill box system in SWG was. What I remember Planetside for was the massive battles and how long it took to get into the action.

So what would I like from Planetside 2?

Bigger battles and to make them Battles be quicker to get to!


Give me 9 different classes like TF2 has and the game will feel more diverse than Planetside ever did.

You obviously haven't played PS. When BR25 was introduced, MAXs became the next best thing for NC/VS.

There was a lot of diversity in PS before the whole BR25 due to having less cert points to spend, thus less certs to have. People had to make a choice on whether to have ground vehicles, air vehicles, hacking, medic, etc...

The problem I for see in PS2 classes is the FOTM ones. Then again, I reserved me judgement until I've actually played. We don't have a whole lot of information about said class system, just that the freedom to switch at "anytime" still exists.

[Vash02]

You could accomplish three of all of those roles with one cookie cutter cert build. It wasn't like at one point you were a 'medic' and then a 'heavy assault', and then an 'engineer'. You had Med/Ma(/ha)/engineer/x/x/x/x. Insert cloak/Rexo/MAX/Vehicle and you have the limit of customization the cert tree offered.

To me, it sounds like you're trying to fuse inventory and the cert system which are two vastly different things. And to be honest, if you didn't use a cookie cutter inventory build then you were only hurting your combat effectiveness.

So no, Homer isn't over simplifying. He's spittin real.

No you cannot have the "one man army" build and be effective in the various specialisations. you can be adv medic but you would only be able to pick up 3-4 guys before you run out of love juice. The same with engineer, you can only have so many ACE's before you start running low on ammo for your HA/AV.

Yes, he is over simplifying. He's making out that in PS1 you could be everything in one loadout which is pure BS.


EDIT:
To address the 20% advantage a veteran 'will have' over a new guy, you're thinking of power in the wrong way. A veteran with HA/Rexo/Med/Engineer/AV/other fun certs, is certainly 20% more powerful than someone starting fresh.

Um no, a lasher vs a JH in PS1 is on equal terms everytime. but a lasher vs a customised JH with a tighter spread or faster firing speed the JH has an advantage.




They took out picking up enemy weapons due to the large amount customisations you can make to weapons in PS2. A big con for customisations in my book.

[Aurmanite]

No you cannot have the "one man army" build and be effective in the various specialisations. you can be adv medic but you would only be able to pick up 3-4 guys before you run out of love juice. The same with engineer, you can only have so many ACE's before you start running low on ammo for your HA/AV.

Yes, he is over simplifying. He's making out that in PS1 you could be everything in one loadout which is pure BS.



Um no, a lasher vs a JH in PS1 is on equal terms everytime. but a lasher vs a customised JH with a tighter spread or faster firing speed the JH has an advantage.




They took out picking up enemy weapons due to the large amount customisations you can make to weapons in PS2. A big con for customisations in my book.

Nothing of what you said oppose my points. In fact, it illustrates perfectly that you are meshing the inventory system and the cert system together. They are two separate things.

Also, you are looking at power in the wrong way. Power isn't only more damage, versatility is power, utility is power. Not to mention the fact that its common knowledge that upgrades to weapons won't necessarily increase their power, but rather provide a slightly different feel, sacrificing something for something else.

[ubermenchen]

I think its a bad idea messing with total freedom of choice, but we will have to see.

[SniperSteve]

I am willing to wait and see. The inventory system in PS1 could be difficult for newcomers. They could probably get around this by having a few default loadouts (like they eventually introduced to PS1).

I will also miss making the decision and layout of my inventory. It was another layer of depth that the game offered. And the more depth there is in a game, the better. When you have to make such seemingly trivial decisions such as how to pack your gear for the battle, it did add some level of ownership to your character and further immersed you in the world. I suppose it could be tedious for the people that just want to shoot other people, though.

As far as the roles, yeah, I will miss being a HA/Agile/AdvMed/AdvHacker/Mossie. But perhaps the roles will add in some level of teamwork, which is more rewarding than just being able to do everything yourself. So I am willing to wait and see.

The absolute BIGGEST regret I have with moving away from the inventory system is the lack of looting. It was so fun to take my outfit and go destroy a key generator or hack a console and then see how long we can survive. Looting was a big deal, because we would almost always run out of ammo before we died. And either sharing ammo or taking ammo from the enemy was an important factor.

[Vash02]

Nothing of what you said oppose my points. In fact, it illustrates perfectly that you are meshing the inventory system and the cert system together. They are two separate things.

Oh I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about the inventory in this inventory thread.
If you think cert prices are too cheap then raise the prices.


Also, you are looking at power in the wrong way. Power isn't only more damage, versatility is power, utility is power. Not to mention the fact that its common knowledge that upgrades to weapons won't necessarily increase their power, but rather provide a slightly different feel, sacrificing something for something else.
Most interactions between opposing players will happen in a duel and be over in a matter of seconds. What they do between clashes is irrelevant to the matter of combat balance.

[Aurmanite]

Oh I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about the inventory in this inventory thread.
If you think cert prices are too cheap then raise the prices.


Most interactions between opposing players will happen in a duel and be over in a matter of seconds. What they do between clashes is irrelevant to the matter of combat balance.

Absolutely none of this post makes sense.

My apologies if English isn't your first language.

[NewSith]

I'm proving an important point, because its mine

To many new people lately...

[Aurmanite]

To many new people lately...

In regards to Planetside, compared to me, you're new.

Edit:

My own post is causing me to feel embarrassment. I allowed myself to be drawn in to this type of behavior. I dropped down to your level, and it feels terrible.

My bad, it won't happen again.

[Hamma]

It is/was a balance issue I believe. (picking up enemy weapons)

[NewSith]

In regards to Planetside, compared to me, you're new.

Sure.

Edit:

My own post is causing me to feel embarrassment. I allowed myself to be drawn in to this type of behavior. I dropped down to your level, and it feels terrible.

My bad, it won't happen again.

That's good.

[Aurmanite]

Sure.



That's good.

I just googled our Planetside stats.

You started much later than me. Your stats are not impressive considering the fact that you spent a longer period of time playing.

You're an elitist who isn't elite.

[NewSith]

I just googled our Planetside stats.

You started much later than me. Your stats are not impressive considering the fact that you spent a longer period of time playing.

You're an elitist who isn't elite.

Definitely.

[Aurmanite]

Definitely.

I'm just wondering, what are you adding to this discussion right now?

Are your one word posts and personal attacks
A) Trolling
B) Post whoring
C) Being a bit of an ass
D) All of the above.

I am hesitant to embrace the loss of free form inventory and the class based system, but I can easily see how the old system was flawed. The point I'm trying to make isn't 'mine', it's one of reason and measured reaction based upon the information we have.

[NewSith]

I am hesitant to embrace the loss of free form inventory and the class based system, but I can easily see how the old system was flawed. The point I'm trying to make isn't 'mine', it's one of reason and measured reaction based upon the information we have.

For such matter we all have answer "wait for beta". I'm not entirely sure why people keep upping this thread, but one thing is quite clear at the moment. The only real change that can and will be done we can expect only after the beta start. And judging by how communicative the devs are, they won't mind WE TOLD YA phrase if the new system fails.

[Hamma]

Both of you need to stop with the "I've been here longer" bullshit. None of that matters, nor do stats or K/D ratio. Have an adult conversation not an e-penis measuring contest.

Get back on the topic at hand.

[Aurmanite]

Both of you need to stop with the "I've been here longer" bullshit. None of that matters, nor do stats or K/D ratio. Have an adult conversation not an e-penis measuring contest.

Get back on the topic at hand.

I'm on the motherfucker, Chief!

[NewSith]

Both of you need to stop with the "I've been here longer" bullshit. None of that matters, nor do stats or K/D ratio. Have an adult conversation not an e-penis measuring contest.

Get back on the topic at hand.

Good grief, sorry for starting it.

[Hamma]

It happens.

Anyone who knows me knows that one of the things I hate most are e-penis contests and elitism. I like to try make sure everyone speaks to each other as an equal wherever possible and when a debate like this comes up it really burns my bones ;)

[Neksar]

Back on-topic. I read the first 5 pages, then it devolved into bickering, looks like. I'll just post my opinion and see what folks think:

I really liked the freeform inventory system. It was something that let me customize my loadout to focus more on, say, armor, or having different grenades available for my underslung on the Punisher. The class system negates some of that by restricting weapon choices and such, but it could still coexist with a freeform inventory system. Part of me thinks that a lot of customization must have been lost if there's no longer a point to a freeform inventory.

[BigBossMonkey]

Class System? Fine with it, the original Planetside basically had it with the roles people would fill

No free inventory system? I'm fine with this as well, I never really liked it anyway.

The only thing I have an issue with is how they're going to handle rearming your ammo in the battlefield.

I want to say Higby mentioned a sort of BF style ammo dispenser on the ground, which I am okay with, to an extent.

It should have a limited number of charges before you have to get a fresh one from an equipment terminal. Otherwise things just get silly.

[Grognard]

I want to say Higby mentioned a sort of BF style ammo dispenser on the ground, which I am okay with, to an extent.

It should have a limited number of charges before you have to get a fresh one from an equipment terminal. Otherwise things just get silly.


Could someone please verify the veracity of this, and explain it. This, to me, sounds like a "power-up".

I really hope I'm wrong. Power-up's... just do not sound right to me, in this game...

[BigBossMonkey]

Could someone please verify the veracity of this, and explain it. This, to me, sounds like a "power-up".

I really hope I'm wrong. Power-up's... just do not sound right to me, in this game...

I think it was in one of the recent video things they did, I remember it clearly...

Or maybe I just dreamed it up when I was sick and on NyQuil.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showpost.php?p=625947&postcount=5

Found it;

SKYeXile_FC SKYeXile
@planetside2 Can any of the classes drop an ammo dispensing box like the support in BF3 or the engineer in TF2?

Margaret Krohn
@PurrfectStorm Margaret Krohn
@SKYeXile_FC @planetside2 Yes. =P

[EVILoHOMER]

It is/was a balance issue I believe. (picking up enemy weapons)

It never was a problem back when I played pre BFRs.

All the HA weapons were pretty well balanced most the time. I would have thought it would make the game more balanced being able to use enemy weapons in case your one was nerfed so it sucked.

[Vash02]

Absolutely none of this post makes sense.

My apologies if English isn't your first language.

Ok I'll make this clear.

You come into an inventory thread and start yapping on about the certification system... ok.
If you are afraid of cookie cutter character builds the soloution is simple: raise cert prices. If people cannot afford to have HA and AV at the same time it would solve the complete non-problem of "one man armies".

In regards to you power argument:
Versatility is irrelevant when opposing players come into contact. It does not matter if a character can hack out AMS's and revive friendlies, they cannot do that in a duel. A brand new character could take on and win against a veteran character.
I dont really care what a player can do as long as the combat is balanced.

[SKYeXile]

Ok I'll make this clear.

You come into an inventory thread and start yapping on about the certification system... ok.
If you are afraid of cookie cutter character builds the soloution is simple: raise cert prices. If people cannot afford to have HA and AV at the same time it would solve the complete non-problem of "one man armies".

In regards to you power argument:
Versatility is irrelevant when opposing players come into contact. It does not matter if a character can hack out AMS's and revive friendlies, they cannot do that in a duel. A brand new character could take on and win against a veteran character.
I dont really care what a player can do as long as the combat is balanced.

I think you maybe misinterpreting how the cert system will be in PS2. from the looks of it you will gain cert points for every kill, action and while offline, you would then use those to spend on unlocks.

By the sounds if it it will be ipossible for somebody to have everything unlocked, you of course just cant use them all at once.

[Neksar]

I'll say it again. Managing my inventory manually made me feel like I was that much more unique than others. I am also a child of 90s gaming. Take from that what you will; maybe it's the nostalgia speaking on my behalf.

With any game these days that has customization, my goal is often exactly as follows: find a class that makes me feel like I'm not the same as everyone else, and have it not suck. If anyone here's played games like Call of Duty or Battlefield, you'll find that you seem to run into the same loadouts after a time. I really, *really* hope that doesn't happen in PS2, especially after having experienced it in PS1. The standard REXO troop infuriated me, because I simply was not a high enough level to have all of those certs and still do anything else interesting (like haxxing or repairing). Seeing the same damn build again and again is possibly what annoyed me the most last time I played Planetside.

As long as PS2 makes me feel like I am my own soldier, I'll be happy. A class system, in my opinion, seems to take away from that. Having said that, it's still not the end of the world IMO. I have my own idea for what would work, without a class system to oversimplify: mutually exclusive equipment pieces and specialized holsters. Prevent players from equipping HA and AV (as has already been pointed out by devs). Make it so that REXO doesn't have a 'gadget' slot for a medical applicator, BANK, etc, but some other suit does (Claim that REXO lacks the intricacies of some sort of nano-interface or something. Bleh, I never thought of lore for it). That way, we make our own classes without the game forcing us into them.

I dunno, despite all the customization we'll be given, just picking a 'class' seems bland to me, rather than just building one from scratch. It's likely too late to implement this large-scale of a change, and I doubt that anyone shares my enthusiasm for such an idea, but does anyone else at least feel the same way I do about picking a 'class' each time I spawn?

[Bing]

Now that we're back on topic... I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been well said. I'm just here to lend my support to the original system of classless, free form inventory. In other news, does it seem like the devs are avoiding talking about this subject?

[Vancha]

Now that we're back on topic... I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been well said. I'm just here to lend my support to the original system of classless, free form inventory. In other news, does it seem like the devs are avoiding talking about this subject?
I think it's just that they addressed it back in July. Besides, what do you expect them to say? "Tough shit"? It's not like they're going to scrap all the work they've done on classes, specs, skills, items and inventories now.

[polywomple]

The thing that bothers me it that they seem to be watering down to a completely different system when you can just implement practical solutions to an already workable system.

For instance, some complain about the "all-round" super soldier

Why not just limit the weapons you can carry ONLY to the weapons slots, and not be able to fit extra weapons in the extra inventory? One 9x3 slot for RExo classes? Why not raise cert point costs to avoid Jack of All Trades; and make recerting easier of an option, away from the battlefield, to avoid hotswapping but give you versatility in play-style?

Anyway, well see how it goes.

[Rivenshield]

I don't like it at all. I can only hope that certain certs occur on more than one cert tree. What the hell will cloakers do without mines and demo charges, if these get monopolized by combat engineers just because...?

Why can't we do what we did TEN YEARS ago? In limited form, at least?

[IronMole]

Ok I'll make this clear.

You come into an inventory thread and start yapping on about the certification system... ok.
If you are afraid of cookie cutter character builds the soloution is simple: raise cert prices. If people cannot afford to have HA and AV at the same time it would solve the complete non-problem of "one man armies".

In regards to you power argument:
Versatility is irrelevant when opposing players come into contact. It does not matter if a character can hack out AMS's and revive friendlies, they cannot do that in a duel. A brand new character could take on and win against a veteran character.
I dont really care what a player can do as long as the combat is balanced.

Agreed. Planetside 2 needs to keep the whole PvP aspect of balanced gameplay. I feel they are going in a direction where balance is going to be a nightmare due to the "different" mods you can have.

Also, I'm still trying to figure out who Aurmanite was in PS?

[ringring]

Also, I'm still trying to figure out who Aurmanite was in PS?

This from another thread
Samnite
AA Alliance
BR20 CR 4.8. I easily could have been CR5 3 times over but I started playing sporadically and stuck to sniping/tanking with my roommate. Extra battle ranks came shortly after I stopped playing.

It sounds like he stopped playing prior to werner dying.

[Gortha]

I just googled our Planetside stats.

You started much later than me. Your stats are not impressive considering the fact that you spent a longer period of time playing.

You're an elitist who isn't elite.

@Off Topic

Hey i would be impressed to have aq look on my old PLanetside Stats.

Well, Planetside Stats (web site) was taken down long ago.
Can u tell me how and where i can find other Sources?

Regards
Gortha

[Khellendros]

@Off Topic

Hey i would be impressed to have aq look on my old PLanetside Stats.

Well, Planetside Stats (web site) was taken down long ago.
Can u tell me how and where i can find other Sources?

Regards
Gortha

The official site, but those stats are old and probably not very up to date.

[Aurmanite]

This from another thread

It sounds like he stopped playing prior to werner dying.

I was on Johari before it merged with Markov.

One of my buddies used my account and played on Werner as ShadWulf, or Subz, I think.

[Gortha]

The official site, but those stats are old and probably not very up to date.

Doesn´t works! :(

http://planetside.station.sony.com/players/

http://myplanetside.station.sony.com/character_index.jsp

[Khellendros]

Doesn´t works! :(

http://planetside.station.sony.com/players/

http://myplanetside.station.sony.com/character_index.jsp

lol, then we are fresh outta luck.

[Aurmanite]

Google your character name with the word Planetside. You can get some of your stats in the link description.

[NewSith]

Google your character name with the word Planetside. You can get some of your stats in the link description.

All I found was this:

Command Rank: 4. Battle Rank: 25. Outfit Title: Terminator Squad Member Outfit Points Contributed to Dawn of War: 44921. Number of Facilities Hacked: 1557

Hmmmm... Can anyone tell me what's the world ID of the Gemini?

[BlazingSun]

If it's done right, I don't mind it that much, even though not beeing able to heal/repair myself is what I will miss the most.

Personally I don't want to be dependent on other players to heal/repair me. "But it's a teamgame .. blah .. blah ...". The problem is and always will be that the majority of players either has to clue or can't be bothered to heal someone. The question is, if healing will be limited to a Medic class, will there be enough incentive for people to play that class? If not we`ll have a real problem.

My wish about the class-system is, that it still gives you good customization options to tailor it to your playstyle and the tasks you want to achieve. This includes choice of weapons, gadgets and tools (and maybe even the amount of ammo per weapon).

[SKYeXile]

TOTAL KILLS WILL SHOW US HOW GOOD SOMEBODY IS!

GOOGLE: WARNINGDRUNKPILOT.

MUST BE AMAZING!

[IronMole]

TOTAL KILLS WILL SHOW US HOW GOOD SOMEBODY IS!

GOOGLE: WARNINGDRUNKPILOT.

MUST BE AMAZING!

KILLS = SKILLZ!

YOU MAD BRO?!

[DviddLeff]

I was initially worried about the class system, but now I am not too fussed about it.

Sure you wont be able to tailor it to the exact role you want it to fill, but I always thought that there was too much flexibility in the original system. However this was often not down to the cert system and more to do with armour restrictions, or rather the lack of them.

I always thought that it was unfortunate that all infantry could equip HA and AV weapons, when they could have been restricted to either/or based around the length of the weapon (they are longer than MA and SA weapons). Rexo could have one short and one long slot, allowing them to have a rifle and HA or AV in their long slot. Agile would be restricted to only short weapons, stopping air cav pilots from bailing then butchering infantry anyway. I detail this more here (https://sites.google.com/site/planetsideupgradeproject/phase-2/infantry-armour-overhaul) (with pictures!).

Anyway a class system allows the devs to restrict things in another way, which will help them to control how the game is played. As long as the specialisation system is varied I don't see too much of a problem.

Loss of inventory I care little about; having extra weapons in the backpack was a bit lame, especially with decimators and the like.

[Neksar]

I still don't like the idea of a class system, but this is a new game, and I need to accept that. Mutual exclusivity of things like HA and medical applicators being in the inventory at the same time seems like the route I'd go, but classes are more accessible to the common gamer.

[Gandhi]

Not a big deal for me really. I'm more upset about equipment scavenging being removed, I thought that was a really nice touch in the original. Especially now that you'll likely be locked into an empire it's really nice to be able to get your hands on some other weapons from time to time. Keeps things fresh you know? Same with vehicle hacking.