Hydrogen Power Mini Van

[Bighoss]

it was announced today on the news that the two companies GMC and shell Oil will be developing a hyrdogen powered car. Lets hope they go through with it:D It will end the oil wars which are almost here if not about to start.

[Headrattle]

anyone else notice the wierdest part of that?

"it was announced today on the news that the two companies GMC and shell Oil will be developing a hyrdogen powered car."


Hehehehe.

I am sure they mean well but...

[Doobz]

if one more person calls it an oil war...

[Headrattle]

Originally posted by Doobz
if one more person calls it an oil war...


Well The war isn't all about Oil. That is true. But if the region's main export was carrots, no body would care. Oil effects everything because we are so dependent on it.

And if you look at the prices, the market, at least, believes it is about oil enough to freak out about it. And those lemmings are going to effect my gas tank. The bastards.

[Fire_Monkey]

yay fuel cells

[Duritz]

Well, they use crude oil to make the hydrogen car fuel so Shell will profit.

Also, I think this whole hydrogen fuel cell thing is a ploy to let people look more ecologically supportive. People have been working on, talking about, and critsizing this for years.

Fact is, that MAKING the hydrgen fuel cells puts almost as much pollution iinto the air as refining gasoline and burning it off in cars.

I'm also wondering if and or when we will go into Sudan. Our oil companies have already jumped on it, but the U.S. government probably won't do anything because it's too controversial.

[Bighoss]

not refering to iraq war when I say oil wars

[Camping Carl]

Oil war, oil war, oil war.

Hey... that's a pretty good tounge-twister!

[Destroyeron]

:confused:

[Squeeky]

Sounds cool, How long until we get flying cars though :brow:

[Hamma]

Screw that.

I like my Supercharged V8

[MrVulcan]

guys, look at what has to be going on about the hydrogen cars, i mean really, its right there:

everyone wants an alternate to gas
hydrogen is much more efficient, clean burning (get water when burn it, and water dosnt pollute much lol)

now how do you change from oil to hydrogen without destroying 10s of thousands of jobs in America from shipping to refining, etc?

make a deal with opec (most people that have studied economics realize that this has gone on)

simple as that

If bush made a deal with opec to raise the price of gas, so that opec could develop the hydrogen plants necessary to produce hydrogen now, and not gas, you get 2 things:

create new jobs, and encourage people to buy hydrogen powered cars, since the fuel is much cheaper.

so it is a win win scenario.

Now if bush invades, he will lose any backing from opec, and thus hurt his own image by the hydrogen plants not being developed as fast, so it can not be about the oil.

Do you really think that we can produce oil over there cheaper than they can???? It costs us (due to our laws) much more to produce the oil, that is why we dont, we have the oil, Texas, Alaska, and offshore along the gulf have as much oil as they have, but it is cheaper to get it from them since they have virtually no labor laws, I mean if it is cheaper to ship oil half way around the world than produce it here, why would we want to produce it over there???

It can not be about the oil, it is a lose lose scenario.



This is all just like the news people complaining that the Texas legislature isn�t passing enough bills yet in the session, but it is ILLIGAL to pass bills in the Texas legislature until the 60th day in session (like the 50th thus far), and you can not pass anything until both houses vote on it, then resolve a final bill, thus that takes about 60 days to resolve bills after that, so historically, around the 120th day is when the legislature starts passing bills.

[MrVulcan]

Originally posted by Duritz

Fact is, that MAKING the hydrgen fuel cells puts almost as much pollution iinto the air as refining gasoline and burning it off in cars.


this is true only until we get the more efficient refineries created, right now it is done with standard refining processes *normal chemical burning, charge particles, separate hydrogen*, but once enough hydrogen is produced to fuel the factories, or we use direct clean energy to create it (dams, wind, geo-thermal) ((not solar, since to create 1 solar panel actually creates a massive amount of deadly poison that is about the same pollution as burning coal for the 2/3rds the lifespan of the panel))

but once we get the process down, it will be a reduction of well over 80% in pollution (refining will be some what polluting no matter what we do) and the burning of hydrogen gives you water, so nothing to worry about there :lol:

P.S.
hydragan powered cars will be used primarally to charge battary powered cars, and electrical powered cars are much much more powerful than anything gas can make, so a V8's power will be nothing compared to a normal electric car (physics people, its a wonderful thing :p )

ok, all of this is just my 5.00$ for the day :p

[Tobias]

Why would shell oil be in on it you ask?

Oil becomes less important, hydrogen fuel cells more important. Oil Componys lose money, but if your the compony that produces the cars (GMC) and are in league with the compony that can produce the fuel cells (Shell) then your in a win win situation. You produce the first (and at first only) hydro cars and their fuel cells. Other componys might make hydro cars next, but because all the egsisting ones use one fuel cell your car to must use that you make. Win/Win for Shell and GMC, and they look to be doing their part to help take america off the relieance of foriegn oil, what heros!

[MrVulcan]

Originally posted by Tobias
Why would shell oil be in on it you ask?

Oil becomes less important, hydrogen fuel cells more important. Oil Componys lose money, but if your the compony that produces the cars (GMC) and are in league with the compony that can produce the fuel cells (Shell) then your in a win win situation. You produce the first (and at first only) hydro cars and their fuel cells. Other componys might make hydro cars next, but because all the egsisting ones use one fuel cell your car to must use that you make. Win/Win for Shell and GMC, and they look to be doing their part to help take america off the relieance of foriegn oil, what heros!

:D yep yep yep
*but we are not relied on foreign oil much, only cheaper to buy it than produce it, and opec will prob create a bit of our hydrogen, since they wil fight to keep in the game, but over the years following the car's intergration into our country, we will start producing more and more over here

*but isnt shell owned by opec? Know that it gets alot of gas there, but everyone does... hmmm dont remember.... ????

[Marsman]

Hydrogen is cleaner yes. More efficient, well? Hydrogen being a simple atom doesn't yield as much energy when combined with O2 as do more complex atoms such as methane, butane, gasoline, etc. That's why we've used those instead of hydrogen as they produced more energy per unit. It's only now that technology with fuel cells and electric cars has reached the point where hydrogen begins to become a viable souce.
As with any company with a primary limited lifetime product, they had better be looking for ways to diversify or perish in time. Obviously any company will resist giving up their primary product, but they know there comes a day that it's either embrace the new or fade into the sunset. So I'm not surpised that an oil company would team up with an auto producer for a project like this. I'd suspect you will see a few more such mergers in the coming years.

[OneManArmy]

Originally posted by Hamma
Screw that.

I like my Supercharged V8


:thumbsup: I'm with hamma on this one :D

[Bighoss]

Screw OPEC when it comes to hydrogen fuel. I think we should just develop our own and watch the Arab economy collapse. It gonna be a pain in the ass to do a full switch over. I guess it will start with gas stations having like 1 or two fill up things for hydrogen and over 10 years or so they'll all be.

the scary thing car crashes could be a hell of a lot more explosive:D ... I think

[Tobias]

nope, compressed hydrogen does not make a very large explosion. It is flameable though. Big poof of fire then its gone.

[Arshune]

I also heard that when they finally miniaturize fuel cells enough they're going to start putting out one chassis and then a host of cheap bodies that can be swapped out with relative ease by the consumer.

Am I the only one here who thinks that's really friggin' cool? Imagine it, sports car to work and back, then a few minutes in the garage and you're ready to take the kids to soccer practice. That kind of design also allows for bodies that would look drastically different from the ones we see today...

[Tobias]

Arshune, you are indeed correct, This would also allow for you to have a truck, van, and other thing all in one. Also switching form rear to front wheel drive in under 30 mins or changing many other things are in the works.

[MrVulcan]

yep yep yep, since the cars will be computer and energy based, the car itself will be very compact (a few inches tall w/o wheels) so we can change how it looks all the time, and it will be much more powerful than the current cars, etc. Remember that electric moters are MUCH stronger than gas, and they run with almost no sound :lol: could you see a semi the size of a pickup that you can hear, now that would be weard.

Here is the page about that car/truch/thing

http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/environment/products/adv_tech/autonomyTT_052002.html

also they have a lot of other info on that site there, here is the index:
http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/environment/road_to_future/tech_tour/index.html

[Headrattle]

Originally posted by MrVulcan

Do you really think that we can produce oil over there cheaper than they can???? It costs us (due to our laws) much more to produce the oil, that is why we dont, we have the oil, Texas, Alaska, and offshore along the gulf have as much oil as they have, but it is cheaper to get it from them since they have virtually no labor laws, I mean if it is cheaper to ship oil half way around the world than produce it here, why would we want to produce it over there???

It can not be about the oil, it is a lose lose scenario.



Well we won't be producing it. They will. What you are saying would be true if we sent Americans over there to produce the oil. But we won't. What is left of the Iraqies will be producing the oil.
We will just be buying it.

Any amount of oil we get after the invasion will be more then what we get now. The embargo says that we can trade oil for food with Iraq, last I heard. But if we occupy the area, suddenly all of that oil can be shipped to our oil companies, at a lower cost. If we decide to bypass Opec. Which we won't. reguardless. Invading Iraq will increase possible oil production and thus lower prices.

If you say "Why would the iraqies produce oil for us?" Well they have to feed their families. And at least the Iraqies working for us about oil will be better off then under Saddam.

Like I said, it isn't the only reason we are so interested in Iraq. but it does make an impact on our decisions.

[Airlift]

Originally posted by Arshune
I also heard that when they finally miniaturize fuel cells enough they're going to start putting out one chassis and then a host of cheap bodies that can be swapped out with relative ease by the consumer.

Old news, Lego has been doing this for years ;)