Make night time dark.

[VioletZero]

Many games today have the problem of their night time being extraordinarily anemic.

Sometimes I can barely tell it is supposed to be night time. While when I look outside, I see what it means to have no light to guide you.

Make people use flashlights and headlights on their cars.

I know it is probably going to cause some unrest from not being able to see, but that's why you don't attack at night!

Or, if you want, this can allow people to utilize night time to their own ends.

Oh, and don't spare on any nighttime stars. With a nice, dark night time, it'll be a lovely contrast to look up at the skybox and see tons and tons of stars.

Do you agree with making night time super dark like it is in real life? Post your thoughts.

[Vancha]

I agree, but I think they've catered to both crowds. On the surface it'll be moonlit, while chasms and such will be much, much darker. I'd like to see a nice night time skybox though, certainly. I remember some of the night time mods for oblivion were beautiful.

Better Nightsky 1 (http://i.imgur.com/2Yc4B.jpg)
Better Nightsky 2 (http://i.imgur.com/N2n2a.jpg)

Basically, space can be pretty, so lets see it.

[brickbuster]

Yeah, I think it would be interesting to do this. Although night should be much shorter than day. Also, night-vision on sniper rifles would be so much fun, as well as stealthy night drops on enemy positions.

[VioletZero]

Yeah, I think it would be interesting to do this. Although night should be much shorter than day. Also, night-vision on sniper rifles would be so much fun, as well as stealthy night drops on enemy positions.

That's a great idea.

They should make night vision exclusive to recons. This would have the benefit of both being fun to use and giving them better recon capabilities.

[Death2All]

I think Higby confirmed that night time is going to be rather dark. He used an example of a very dark battle where nothing but tracers from people's guns were lighting up the night sky. That sounds awesome.


I really hope they follow through. Night time would open up a lot more things you could do tactically. I hope it's not like PS1 where every few hours it would be "night time" and the sky would turn to a slightly darker shade of purple.

[Zulthus]

I believe there was a point in PS1 where the nighttime was very dark, but people complained about not being able to see so they set it to the purple-ish sky that we have now.

[VioletZero]

I believe there was a point in PS1 where the nighttime was very dark, but people complained about not being able to see so they set it to the purple-ish sky that we have now.

Laaaame.

[WaryWizard]

I like the idea of night being dark.

Also on the subject of length I have come up with the best possible length of time for a full day cycle (sunrise to sunrise). 7 hours. 4 hours from sunrise to sunset and 3 hours from sunset to sunrise.

why is it impossible to find a good picture taken at night time!!!

I was hoping to find a good example picture.

[VioletZero]

I like the idea of night being dark.

Also on the subject of length I have come up with the best possible length of time for a full day cycle (sunrise to sunrise). 7 hours. 4 hours from sunrise to sunset and 3 hours from sunset to sunrise.

why is it impossible to find a good picture taken at night time!!!

I was hoping to find a good example picture.

Probably because photography is impossible at night.

That said, why can't it be real time? Like, pick CST as your time zone and when it is night time there, it is night time in game.

[Alanim]

How about a moon cycle that determines brightness? Full moon = bright night, New moon = Dark night, etc.

[Zulthus]

Probably because photography is impossible at night.

That said, why can't it be real time? Like, pick CST as your time zone and when it is night time there, it is night time in game.

That wouldn't work. Way too much server load, but most importantly, there are people playing from different timezones. You could just switch your timezone to day all the time and have an advantage. That just wouldn't work at all, I can't even explain how bad that would turn out.

[VioletZero]

That wouldn't work. Way too much server load, but most importantly, there are people playing from different timezones. You could just switch your timezone to day all the time and have an advantage. That just wouldn't work at all, I can't even explain how bad that would turn out.

Maybe you misread that.

I meant just pick CST or something and have the game rely on THAT timezone for everyone. Night/day won't shift from player to player.

[Zulthus]

Oh, well if you mean an entire server, then East Coast/West Coast/Europe/Australia will all most likely have their own server timezone that time of day goes off of. I thought you meant individuals pick their timezone.

[VioletZero]

Oh, well if you mean an entire server, then East Coast/West Coast/Europe/Australia will all most likely have their own server timezone that time of day goes off of. I thought you meant individuals pick their timezone.

Goodness no, I can see the issues with that right away.

I really meant just having night and day cycles that reflect real life.

[WaryWizard]

Maybe you misread that.

I meant just pick CST or something and have the game rely on THAT timezone for everyone. Night/day won't shift from player to player.

What if you are only able to get on at about the same time every day. Do you know how bad it would be if everytime you log in the sun is just about to go under the horizon. Sure it would be nice the first couple of times, but pure night ops isn't good. My 7 hour plan allows for people to really get a sense of time passing, but it not feeling too fast. People that get on at the same time every day won't be getting on at the same in-game time all the time.


Also I would like to be able to view a statistic of how many in-game years the war has been going on in PS2 after it has been released for some time.

[Zulthus]

What if you are only able to get on at about the same time every day. Do you know how bad it would be if everytime you log in the sun is just about to go under the horizon. Sure it would be nice the first couple of times, but pure night ops isn't good. My 7 hour plan allows for people to really get a sense of time passing, but it not feeling too fast. People that get on at the same time every day won't be getting on at the same in-game time all the time.


Also I would like to be able to view a statistic of how many in-game years the war has been going on in PS2 after it has been released for some time.

Well, it's not really *your* 7 hour plan, I recall Higby saying that they'd do something just like that, including having two moons at once for brighter nights, one moon for dim nights, and sometimes no moon for very dark nights. :p

[VioletZero]

Truthfully, I feel like the people who can only get on at the same time every day is their problem. Not the game's.

It should be something easy to plan around. And having it mismatched would complicate things a lot for everyone.

[Alanim]

I'm all for 4-10 hour days aswell, as in 2 hours day/2 hours night, etc.

if possible, whatever solution they use they should do a odd number on the hours such as 2H30M day/night cycles, this will cause moving day/night times, letting people get different game times even if they play at the same time everytime.

[Vancha]

I'm all for 4-10 hour days aswell, as in 2 hours day/2 hours night, etc.

if possible, whatever solution they use they should do a odd number on the hours such as 2H30M day/night cycles, this will cause moving day/night times, letting people get different game times even if they play at the same time everytime.
7-8 hour days seems to make the most sense.

8 hour days would fit into a real-world 24 hour day three times, so the time of day at a certain time of day would alternate every day.

I can't begin to describe how much I loved typing that.

That would however mean 3 to 3½ hours of nighttime per cycle, assuming half an hour to an hour for dawn/dusk transitions. If that ends up being too long, 7 hours would work too (although 7's not a factor of 24, it's still a factor of 168 (the number of hours in a week)), which'd have 2½ or 3 hour nights and would give people who play at the same time a nice variation of day times throughout the week.

6 hours wouldn't work, because you'd have people stuck playing at the same day-times again, 5 hours seems too short (nearly 5 days a day?) and then 9, 10 and 11 hour days neither fit into a one-week, two-week or monthly cycle, which is simply unacceptable (plus their nights would probably be too long for the liking of a lot of people. Especially if there's only one or two continents available at release.)

[VioletZero]

I still think it should reflect earth cycles.

Then at least the night and day feels consistent.

[Jimmuc]

i would like seeing moon cycles put in, be pretty cool to play without the moon every so often. T-Ray or Highby did say that if your out on an plain you'll have moonlight but if your in an area like a cavern with no moon showing then its pitch black..pretty cool :cool:

[Vancha]

I still think it should reflect earth cycles.

Then at least the night and day feels consistent.

You're trolling again, aren't you?

Lots of people have lives in which they can only play for an hour or two during a certain time window, if that. Forcing those people to play at during night if they hate night fights is a sure-fire way to push people away from the game.

[Hmr85]

I agree it does not need to reflect earth cycles. I would say every 2 to 4 hours at most on the day night cycles.

[VioletZero]

You're trolling again, aren't you?

Lots of people have lives in which they can only play for an hour or two during a certain time window, if that. Forcing those people to play at during night if they hate night fights is a sure-fire way to push people away from the game.

How does that even happen?

24 hours in a day and you can't fit in more than two hours.

The only ones I can think of are that you're a business owner or made the unfortunate mistake of spawning. Latter of which deserves it and I can't imagine the former is at all interested in a game like this.

[Hmr85]

How does that even happen?

24 hours in a day and you can't fit in more than two hours.


Yeah, some of us have jobs/family to take care of. We cannot spend 24/7 in our parents basement playing. The day night cycle needs to be 2 to 4 hours. Otherwise myself, I would never see day time in the game.

[Vancha]

Yeah, some of us have jobs and kids to take care of. We cannot spend 24/7 in our parents basement playing. The day night cycle needs to be 2 to 4 hours. Otherwise myself, I would never see day time in the game.
It could still be longer than that. Like I said before, 8 hours would mean it'd be day and night on alternate days when you played, and even then if you can play for 4 hours you wouldn't just be stuck with just night or just day during a play session.

Bump that down to 7 hour days and throughout the week you'd experience a good mix of daytime, night time, dawn and dusk.

[VioletZero]

Yeah, some of us have jobs/family to take care of. We cannot spend 24/7 in our parents basement playing. The day night cycle needs to be 2 to 4 hours. Otherwise myself, I would never see day time in the game.

Yeah...so do I and I can fit in a good chunk of the daytime.

What could I possibly be doing right that you aren't?

[Hmr85]

Yeah...so do I and I can fit in a good chunk of the daytime.

What could I possibly be doing right that you aren't?

I work 12 hour days 5 days a week sometimes more. I am up at 4am at work by 6am and then off by 6pm. With a 1 to 2 hour ride home through crappy traffic. I love planetside but I have a responsibility to my family. Some nights I am lucky to get 1 to 2 hours. The only time I would ever see day time combat would be on the weekend. Which for me is Friday and Saturday. So no its not that your doing something right. Its just that others have slightly different schedules.

What you need to remember is Auraxis is not Earth. The day night cycle does not have to be the same. A 2 to 4 hour cycle is actually best way to go. I would lean more towards 4 hours.

[VioletZero]

Why would you ever need to work so much?

After going down through my expenses, if I wanted to I could get by on minimum wage part time. But I want more than that of course.

12 hour work days just sound hell. Which makes me wonder why someone would voluntarily do that.

[Hmr85]

Why would you ever need to work so much?

After going down through my expenses, if I wanted to I could get by on minimum wage part time. But I want more than that of course.

12 hour work days just sound hell. Which makes me wonder why someone would voluntarily do that.

I'm the site manager of where I work. I deal with millions of dollars a day going through that site. I am working even when I am not there. I do it because the pay is fantastic and it helps me provide for my family. That is why I do it.

[VioletZero]

I'm the site manager of where I work. I deal with millions of dollars a day going through that site. I am working even when I am not there. I do it because the pay is fantastic and it helps me provide for my family. That is why I do it.

Okay, fair enough.

Still, an uneven cycle will make the day and night very difficult to plan around. Since it will appear very sporatic.

[Hmr85]

Okay, fair enough.
Still, an uneven cycle will make the day and night very difficult to plan around. Since it will appear very sporatic.

Actually It will make it alot easier. I will know that 3 hours from now since it just turned morning, dark will be rolling around. I'll be able to set ops up around the cycle depending on the current situation on the ground. So I have to disagree with that.

[VioletZero]

I don't even know how you figured that out.

[Hmr85]

I don't even know how you figured that out.

What I proposed was not for a random day or night cycle. I said set it to a set schedule. So every 4 hours it changes. So if its 8am in the morning and it just turned to day. I will know that by 12pm It should be turning night time. What you need to remember is that battles in this game over a a facility or 2 or even over a dam bridge can last at times 5 to 6 hours if not longer. These fights are not fast.

I have a clock right next to my computer I tend to watch it while I'm playing just to check up on what time it is.

[VioletZero]

I thought what people suggested was for the day/night cycle to shift at a different time every day.

I guess it doesn't matter. My guild leader is handling the logistics, not me. So I guess I shouldn't worry too much.

[Warborn]

Dark nights would just compel people to either adjust their gamma or strain their eyes while raging at being killed by people they can't see. I think night time should be primarily an atmospheric thing and should not be a significant hindrance to vision for players. Plus it really would beg the question as to why everyone with their fancy space goggles and what-for isn't equipped with some kind of new-fangled nightvision stuff vastly superior to ours which makes night time a non-issue anyway.

[Hmr85]

Dark nights would just compel people to either adjust their gamma or strain their eyes while raging at being killed by people they can't see. I think night time should be primarily an atmospheric thing and should not be a significant hindrance to vision for players. Plus it really would beg the question as to why everyone with their fancy space goggles and what-for isn't equipped with some kind of new-fangled nightvision stuff vastly superior to ours which makes night time a non-issue anyway.

Hehe, they probably have night vision as a unlock. Will have to wait and see. I wouldn't be surprised to see some form of it in game being night vision goggles or In-fared.

[VioletZero]

Either adapt/take advantage of the dark, or don't attack at all.

Night time would offer a new dynamic to warfare in this game.

It'd be just like heavy weather effects and effects like slowing vehicles down or creating more fog.

That said, I do agree with putting night vision in the game, but only for recons.

[Warborn]

"Don't attack at all" is not a realistic answer to the issue of fighting at night where you can't really see being a frustrating experience. Nobody is going to accept having to stop playing until sunrise, otherwise deal with getting shot by people wearing dark red/black armor hiding in the shadows somewhere. It just isn't acceptable to expect players to appreciate those options.

As for night vision, it gets a bit pointless in that case. Either everyone gets night vision, or people simply stop spawning as the classes that don't get night vision when it's dark. And if everyone gets night vision, then why even bother making night really dark in the first place? Just say that all helmets/etc come equipped with auto-adjusters for ambient brightness and that it's compensated for by the character's futuristic equipment. Or don't say anything; players are pretty used to the idea of night time not being as dark as it is in real life when they're playing a game.

Ultimately it comes down to gameplay. Would it be better gameplay to have people fumbling around in the dark? I wager not. But certainly having a night-time ambiance and maybe a small change in visibility overall might be fine. There are ways to get the good parts out of night fighting without adding in the stuff that would make it a miserable experience for anyone who doesn't have night vision.

[VioletZero]

I say: Yes.

The reason you would spawn as another class is because you'd trust your recons to spot for you while you kill the enemies.

A well balanced group including recons to spot will trump a group of all recons to take advantage of night vision.

You should know well by now that I am not in favor of anything just for realism. I say this because it has so many different potential advantages that it could help with.

On another note, I do like the idea of moon phases and moon light. Like, canyons will still be pitch black but on the surface it will be a cool blue light.

[Coreldan]

What if you are only able to get on at about the same time every day. Do you know how bad it would be if everytime you log in the sun is just about to go under the horizon. Sure it would be nice the first couple of times, but pure night ops isn't good. My 7 hour plan allows for people to really get a sense of time passing, but it not feeling too fast. People that get on at the same time every day won't be getting on at the same in-game time all the time.


Also I would like to be able to view a statistic of how many in-game years the war has been going on in PS2 after it has been released for some time.

This, it would really suck to never get to see other parts of the day. You might be always stuck at playing during nights or just the day and never see the nighttime.

I believe Higby did mention something about the day night cycle, while I can't remember it exactly, it wasnt too far off from something like 5h of daytime for 1h of nighttime-kinda deal.

It has to be an "odd number" so that you will get to play at different times and not always during the same time of day.

Also, they have confirmed there to be flares for multiple weapons/vehicles that luminate the battlefield. Also, many of the screenshots we've seen have actually been fairly dark.

I made a little "low light" montage of mostly to show how dark it can get, some of them arnt during the night, but like dusk/dawn kinda things:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RIwW2D686fk#t=4784s Full day night cycle in game at increased speed

http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/viewer.php?img_id=1765
http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/viewer.php?img_id=1773
http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/viewer.php?img_id=1757
http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/viewer.php?img_id=1762
http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/viewer.php?img_id=1783
http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/viewer.php?img_id=1789
http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/viewer.php?img_id=1788
http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/viewer.php?img_id=1791
http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/viewer.php?img_id=1853

[Atheosim]

I can see this being cool as a monthly or weekly event, but I don't think it should be an every day (night?) thing. Perhaps it can be explained as a lunar cycle, which I think was mentioned earlier in the thread.

[Warborn]

You should know well by now that I am not in favor of anything just for realism. I say this because it has so many different potential advantages that it could help with.

Really? I should know that by now? And if it isn't for the sake of realism then what is it for? Is being repeatedly killed by people you can't see everytime it becomes dark a gameplay experience you imagine would contribute to the overall gameplay experience? This, to me, comes across as realism for its own sake. Impeding gameplay by making people unable to see well in order to simulate the realism if night time being dark. Its place as something you would plan around is a fairly flimsy thing.

[WaryWizard]

Really? I should know that by now? And if it isn't for the sake of realism then what is it for? Is being repeatedly killed by people you can't see everytime it becomes dark a gameplay experience you imagine would contribute to the overall gameplay experience? This, to me, comes across as realism for its own sake. Impeding gameplay by making people unable to see well in order to simulate the realism if night time being dark. Its place as something you would plan around is a fairly flimsy thing.

It forces additional tactics. Shoot a flare or two into the sky or something.

Night vision could also be used, just don't make it where you can see like it's day time or something.

Along with headlights, and a couple other methods of finding people like infared, night won't be too bad. Infared should only be allowed for reconnaissance. Like infared binoculars. Depends on how it would look while in game mid fight.




Besides, just because we say "dark" does not mean blindingly so. There are two moons...I think. One really big and one smaller. I think there should be maybe a little lower light with the small one

[Hmr85]

"Don't attack at all" is not a realistic answer to the issue of fighting at night where you can't really see being a frustrating experience. Nobody is going to accept having to stop playing until sunrise, otherwise deal with getting shot by people wearing dark red/black armor hiding in the shadows somewhere. It just isn't acceptable to expect players to appreciate those options.

As for night vision, it gets a bit pointless in that case. Either everyone gets night vision, or people simply stop spawning as the classes that don't get night vision when it's dark. And if everyone gets night vision, then why even bother making night really dark in the first place? Just say that all helmets/etc come equipped with auto-adjusters for ambient brightness and that it's compensated for by the character's futuristic equipment. Or don't say anything; players are pretty used to the idea of night time not being as dark as it is in real life when they're playing a game.

Ultimately it comes down to game play. Would it be better game play to have people fumbling around in the dark? I wager not. But certainly having a night-time ambiance and maybe a small change in visibility overall might be fine. There are ways to get the good parts out of night fighting without adding in the stuff that would make it a miserable experience for anyone who doesn't have night vision.

SOE could incorporate some form of NV as a Implant. I am sure all classes will also come with a light on their helmets or gear similar to the Vanguard. TBH this has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever seen people fight over with it being to dark in a game.:rofl:

Night time combat adds a whole new element of strategy into the game. I insist that they make it dark. Not so dark you can't see your hand in front of you. But dark enough you have to have some sort of light to assist you. If your fumbling around in the dark and not using what they supplied you in game then your doing wrong. Adjust and figure away out to adapt to the night time play or roll over and die and become fodder for others who will adapt. With the addition of camo in the game now it is going to make it extremely easy to hide. Even in low light levels where its not fully dark. This goes for all factions.

[Warborn]

Look at all them words folks made at me. Hooey. Anyway, this (http://i.imgur.com/KjJfm.png) is (http://i.imgur.com/d133B.png) how (http://i.imgur.com/xMPbi.png) night (http://i.imgur.com/od9pS.png) looks (http://i.imgur.com/MPROI.png), and it's perfect. Ambiance of night but you'll still be able to see basically fine, maybe slightly impaired but nothing serious. It's the perfect mix of good visuals while not going over-the-top with the annoying realism crap that people would have thwarted via cranking their gamma anyway.

[VioletZero]

I find it extremely surprising how you don't see the possibilities with night time.

Sure, it might be annoying to your common, unorganized outfit. But to a properly managed outfit, as they should be, it could be a way to get an advantage on your enemy.

It's another possibility to increase the depth of the game.

[Warborn]

This isn't my first rodeo. I've played World War 2 Online enough to know that this kind of thing gets very old, very fast. It doesn't add depth, it doesn't give some fancy new layer of strategy, it's just frustrating and annoying and something that ultimately is done because of someone liking the idea of it more than wanting to improve gameplay. You see there what night looks like in Planetside 2. That's just fine. Dark, but still easy to see. Looks cool, tracers and explosions and stuff lighting up the night. No problem. That's what night should be in a game like this. Leave the alternative to the games made for the weirdos who want the game to be as close to realism as possible.

[VioletZero]

It shouldn't be easy to see. If it is, there's no point in having a night time at all.

[Warborn]

You're wrong there, pard. Night time is about mood and having a bigger variety of cool visuals. That's really the entire point of darkness in video games. It's really never about making it hard to see, barring certain specific types of games, like the "realistic" shooters (WW2OL, ArmA, etc) or the shooter-horror games like STALKER or Metro. In the vast majority of games which bother to include night time stuff, it's done so that it's still pretty easy to see, but that the ambiance, the mood, the feeling of darkness is there.

[Seagoon]

Or, You know, Planetside 2 could make use of night in a way that makes it into an interesting tactical/strategic situation to take advantage of unlike all those other games?

But that would be innovation, and we dont want that right ?

Basically your arguement is that "I dont like night, I dont see the point in having it thus it should not be in".

Well I do see the point in night time and I think that to be honest you dont know what the hell you are talking about.

Firstly night for starters does not have to be just dark or just light, using the volumetric cloud system and providing different levels of lighting depending on somthing like the phases of the moon would alow for many different levels of lighting at night and even have it vary over a short space of time as the clouds might clear or have gaps in their coverage.

Secondly night is not just going to be pitch black and thats it, they have already said they would be looking into providing flares and other methods of lighting the area as is required and on top of that all vehicles have headlights that can be turned off or on as well as all the lighting provided by the buildings and bases.

Thirdly, saying that a pitch black night situation does not change gameplay in any meaningful way just shows that you are talking out of your ass. I mean I dont even need to explain this one...
The fact that you cant make out targets 15m away effectivly and that if you fire you will give away your position and having to consider doing so to light up the area with flares or healights, or that combat will take place at shorter distances because of the low light situaition.... (i can keep going...)

None of that makes any difference to the gameplay right ? yep night sure is pointless and is just about mood.

Sigh.

[Warborn]

The reason it's not generally the case that night is very dark in games is because people don't like playing games that they can't see what's going on in with a few aforementioned exceptions. It isn't an accident that very few games make night time a serious obstacle to players. What, you imagine maybe developers didn't realize that it's hard to see at night? No, it's that people learned pretty quickly "realism" and fancy tactical whatever-bullshit goes out the window if it's just not fun to play. Night time in Planetside 2 being really dark and hard to see what's going on during isn't innovative, it's just a bad idea.

[Seagoon]

Sorry, but its just a bad idea for players who are unwilling to adapt to new situations and take advantage of them.

How can you be so qualified to be able to say what is definitively a bad idea for games in general?

I have already explained that night is not going to just be pitch black nothingness, but you dont seem to want to listen to that do you ?

[Warborn]

How can you be so qualified to be able to say what is definitively a bad idea for games in general?

I play lots of video games.

And I've emphasized repeatedly that prohibitive darkness is fine for certain types of games. It's just not fine for an FPS that is about arcade-y, Battlefield-style action and attracting broad appeal as an MMO title. It doesn't matter if muzzle flashes make it possible to tell where someone is or not.

[Seagoon]

I play lots of video games.

Who here does not?

I play lots of video games but I also spend lots of time studying them and designing them, its my job one might say.

The main counter arguement which I will give to you is that it might slow down the pace of the game, which would as you say detract from the gameplay they are aiming for.

However I dont belive it would. You still die as quickly, you move just as quickly, fights are taking place in just as large numbers, fights are taking place just as frequently and just as far apart from each other. The only difference is that you have different tactical/strategic options avalible to you, and if you say that the average BF3 or COD player cant handle such extra options then I belive that you are selling them short by a long shot.

One thing to remember is this: People understand what night time means. What I mean by this is that unlike some random extra gameplay element or feature that has no connection to reality, night time being dark is somthing everyone can understand the implications of imediatly, this greatly improves peoples ability to cope and react to it.

[NewSith]

I play lots of video games.

And I've emphasized repeatedly that prohibitive darkness is fine for certain types of games. It's just not fine for an FPS that is about arcade-y, Battlefield-style action and attracting broad appeal as an MMO title. It doesn't matter if muzzle flashes make it possible to tell where someone is or not.

Battlefield 2: Special Forces Intro - YouTube

And people play it...

[Warborn]

This is getting repetitive.

[NewSith]

This is getting repetitive.

What do they say? "Let's agree to differ", is that it?

[Warborn]

Yeah lets agree to whatever who cares.

this (http://i.imgur.com/KjJfm.png) is (http://i.imgur.com/d133B.png) how (http://i.imgur.com/xMPbi.png) night (http://i.imgur.com/od9pS.png) looks (http://i.imgur.com/MPROI.png)

[VioletZero]

The more I am on this forum, the more I realize that the MMO aspect turns the game into a FPS vs RTS.

I think it should be more RTS, people like Warborn think it should be more FPS.

[TheBladeRoden]

I believe there was a point in PS1 where the nighttime was very dark, but people complained about not being able to see so they set it to the purple-ish sky that we have now.
So THAT'S whose fault it was!

[VioletZero]

If we can't have it dark, at least have night times lit up by cool blue moonlight with an awesome night time skybox.

Blow us away with that.

[Hamma]

This is more of a discussion than an "Idea" per say, I am going to get this into the discussion forums.

[AncientVanu]

They should make night vision exclusive to recons. This would have the benefit of both being fun to use and giving them better recon capabilities.

What about pilots? The way you propose it, if you don't have night vision how do you fly, how do you spot and attack the targets?
Furthermore what kind of battles would these be where you shoot at flashlights and vehicle headlights cause you can't see anything else, while recons have night vision. Does that sound like the kind of combat you would be fighting in the future? Even now modern armies are equipped with night vision goggles, or night vision scopes and certainly there are no armies running with flashlights on the battlefield. Nighttime operations does not sound bad as an idea, although it would go too much towards a simulation rather than just an FPS game. If it is ever going to be implemented it should be carefully thought out. The idea of giving night vision to recons only I find terrible, even though I'm playing mainly as a sniper/recon in FPS games.

[CutterJohn]

Still, an uneven cycle will make the day and night very difficult to plan around. Since it will appear very sporatic.

There are two new inventions that may help you on this.. One is called 'Clocks', and the other is 'Math'. This is cutting edge stuff, so I'm not entirely up to speed yet, but apparently 'clocks' can tell you, somehow, when it is. 'Math', on the other hand, looks like this weird form of writing that lets you work with numbers without counting your fingers. Crazy stuff!

And plan? In PS? Plans can be formed 5 minutes before you roll out. Maybe 10 if everyone has to recall. There are zero logistical hurdles in the game.


Speaking for myself, I dislike extremely dark games. I play in a well lit room(lol sunlight..) so dark games are seriously annoying, considering the very limited contrast when everything is dark. Plus, to make the game actually playable, they'd need night vision, which just makes it day again, albeit a really shitty looking day. And if there were no night vision, I'd have to rig up some way to crank the gamma and contrast on the fly so I could see.

[NewSith]

There are two new inventions that may help you on this.. One is called 'Clocks', and the other is 'Math'. This is cutting edge stuff, so I'm not entirely up to speed yet, but apparently 'clocks' can tell you, somehow, when it is. 'Math', on the other hand, looks like this weird form of writing that lets you work with numbers without counting your fingers. Crazy stuff!

The cycle us sporadic at some point actually... I mean play for a day than come back in 4 days and you most likely won't remember when the night starts this time around.

[CutterJohn]

The cycle us sporadic at some point actually... I mean play for a day than come back in 4 days and you most likely won't remember when the night starts this time around.

An Auraxis time clock would be a 5 minute addition to the game. Or just have the world map be on one screen, and make the continents on the night side in a dark band, and the continents on the day side in the light band, and you have a visual representation of when night is coming.

[NewSith]

An Auraxis time clock would be a 5 minute addition to the game. Or just have the world map be on one screen, and make the continents on the night side in a dark band, and the continents on the day side in the light band, and you have a visual representation of when night is coming.

Clock is for the weak!:D

[Figment]

I would imagine the day-night cycles are shorter than on earth in order to not always play in the same setting every time you play at a certain hour, but would still be very gradual.

For instance, instead of using a rhythm of 24 hours, that would give you options like 3, 4, 6, 8 or 12 hours for a cycle to complete. But it'd mean you'd know exactly from the time you play what time it'd be in game. To make sure people get to play a couple different formats at their own different play hours, you'd want there to be a time phase difference that shifts with the passing of days. So, you wouldn't want a division that fits with 24 hours. That'd give you options of 5, 7, 9 or 11 hours. This way every day there is a discrepancy between earth and auraxian time.

This means that even if you fight each day at the same hours at home, you'll eventually fight in the morning, in the afternoon or evening on Auraxis even if you start to fight on Earth hours at 20:00h every day.

Cycles should be pretty long, but not so long you don't notice the shift in light. So either 7 or 9 hours would in my opinion be the most suitable.


I'd also like to be able to see the Auraxian date and time on the website, btw. Especially nice if it would be integrated in a big world map overview like we had pre-bending, but then they'd need to know exactly how many maps there'll be as the world would have to be established.

[CutterJohn]

http://i.imgur.com/GjOwu.png


Quick mock up. Make the world map look like this. Easy at a glance figuring where its light and where its dark. Looks cool too, and better gives the impression that its a planet.

[Duddy]

The more I am on this forum, the more I realize that the MMO aspect turns the game into a FPS vs RTS.

I think it should be more RTS, people like Warborn think it should be more FPS.

It's an FPS with RTS elements. FPS because that is how you play it (primarily), however it does not play like any (conventional) RTS so it would be inaccurate to call it that.

[ringring]

I can't think of anything I am less looking forward to than night time fighting.

Yea, the screenshots look great but the gameplay may be annoying as hell.

Oh and the Kill Cam will be great ...here's a shot of the guy to killed you. Nope you still can't see him!

In PS1 it had particle effects and sandstorms on the desert worlds - nearly everyone had it turned off.

[Gandhi]

...here's a shot of the guy to killed you. Nope you still can't see him!
Well, that would solve all the kill cam problems related to cloaking and sniping :D

[Scrima]

The problem with making night time really dark is there will always be people who turn their gamma way up so that it looks like daytime. If there was a way to disable this then I would be all for true "nighttime" battles. Would be cool if you went from pitch black outside into a lit base and it took your screen a few seconds to adjust to the bright light.

[Seagoon]

I can't think of anything I am less looking forward to than night time fighting.

Yea, the screenshots look great but the gameplay may be annoying as hell.

Oh and the Kill Cam will be great ...here's a shot of the guy to killed you. Nope you still can't see him!

In PS1 it had particle effects and sandstorms on the desert worlds - nearly everyone had it turned off.

you got killed by a guy you cant see?

Why the hell could he see you then? Oh wait, its because you cant adapt to a new play style to litterally save your own life, and he managed it to end yours. Props to him for turning what appears to be a disadvantage to his own advantage.

You get killed all the time by people you either did not see or were not focusing on in large scale battles, this will be no different at night.

To counter your lack of ability to watch all directions at once, try this wierd idea: MOVE IN A SQUAD NOT ON YOUR OWN.
More eyes = more directions covered = less chance for you to get jumped by one guy. Not only that but if you do then they can react and kill the jumper and revive you.
Holy Crud, its like this game was designed with teamwork in mind rather than running and gunning solo!

in PS1 people turned off particle effects because they had an advantage over those who left it on and to level the playing field against others who turned it off. You cant just turn off night. And on top of that the devs are going to stop you from turning off effects and things that can effect gameplay in this sort of way.

The problem with making night time really dark is there will always be people who turn their gamma way up so that it looks like daytime. If there was a way to disable this then I would be all for true "nighttime" battles. Would be cool if you went from pitch black outside into a lit base and it took your screen a few seconds to adjust to the bright light.

Yep this is a problem, however, night time like I keep saying wont be just darkness. The guy with the gamma turned up will be constantly having his screen washed out by the lights from the bases, from the flares, from the torches, from the headlights and all the other lightsources that will be out there.
Not only that but there is no reason why night has to be just one level of darkness, it could very easily vary depending on cloud cover and so on.

[Gandhi]

As long as night time doesn't turn into mandatory green-vision I'm happy.

[moosepoop]

ps2 has dynamic lighting. turning up gamma wont work because you wil be blinded.

[Saintlycow]

Dark but not too dark. Kinda like some pictures posted in this thread

[ringring]

you got killed by a guy you cant see?

Why the hell could he see you then? Oh wait, its because you cant adapt to a new play style to litterally save your own life, and he managed it to end yours. Props to him for turning what appears to be a disadvantage to his own advantage.

You get killed all the time by people you either did not see or were not focusing on in large scale battles, this will be no different at night.

To counter your lack of ability to watch all directions at once, try this wierd idea: MOVE IN A SQUAD NOT ON YOUR OWN.
More eyes = more directions covered = less chance for you to get jumped by one guy. Not only that but if you do then they can react and kill the jumper and revive you.
Holy Crud, its like this game was designed with teamwork in mind rather than running and gunning solo!

in PS1 people turned off particle effects because they had an advantage over those who left it on and to level the playing field against others who turned it off. You cant just turn off night. And on top of that the devs are going to stop you from turning off effects and things that can effect gameplay in this sort of way.



Yep this is a problem, however, night time like I keep saying wont be just darkness. The guy with the gamma turned up will be constantly having his screen washed out by the lights from the bases, from the flares, from the torches, from the headlights and all the other lightsources that will be out there.
Not only that but there is no reason why night has to be just one level of darkness, it could very easily vary depending on cloud cover and so on.

Oh, it's a team based game. Why did nobody tell me. I've been playing it wrong since 2004 to date.

Please, no drama. Leave forumcide at the other place.

[Vancha]

I think dark nights just have yet to be accommodated well in a game like this, and Planetside seems like the ideal game to do it. Between the dynamic lighting, the sheer number of lights that could be found on structures, on guns, on armour, on glowing fauna? Then add in the groundbreaking implementation of a night vision, dark light, thermal vision etc. that don't look terrible (since this is a futuristic game and thus they're allowed to be imaginative).

That said, I don't expect things to get any darker than we've seen in screenshots, but you never know.

Cycles should be pretty long, but not so long you don't notice the shift in light. So either 7 or 9 hours would in my opinion be the most suitable.
Oops, it happened again. We agreed on a part, of something in-game. Oh Figgy Figgy...

[SniperSteve]

I think having an occasional, predictable VERY dark night would be the best of both worlds.

It may get annoying to always need night vision or not be able to see the enemy for a few hours out of every day. But if it happened every 5 real-time earth days, that would be really awesome. Something to look forward to and plan operations for.

[Lord Cosine]

I think dark nights just have yet to be accommodated well in a game like this, and Planetside seems like the ideal game to do it. Between the dynamic lighting, the sheer number of lights that could be found on structures, on guns, on armour, on glowing fauna? Then add in the groundbreaking implementation of a night vision, dark light, thermal vision etc. that don't look terrible (since this is a futuristic game and thus they're allowed to be imaginative)..

Yep I agree, it doesn't matter how dark they make the night sky as long as the countermeasures are excellent and readily available.

If a soldier notices that the sun is setting then on his next life he simply changes his loadout to have a flashlight on his gun or a non-eye-raping night/thermal vision, and then continues on his merry way.

I would not restrict the essential night vision items to recons, perhaps they could have an additional one, but every player even the noobs who just started playing should have access to all the night vision options that are essential to seeing good enough at night time.

[Lord Cosine]

I think having an occasional, predictable VERY dark night would be the best of both worlds.

It may get annoying to always need night vision or not be able to see the enemy for a few hours out of every day. But if it happened every 5 real-time earth days, that would be really awesome. Something to look forward to and plan operations for.

True that could be nice, additionally they could have different day night cycles per world/continent. some could be 1:1 Day to Night, some could be skewed with multiple suns so that night time only happens once in a while.

[VioletZero]

I think having an occasional, predictable VERY dark night would be the best of both worlds.

It may get annoying to always need night vision or not be able to see the enemy for a few hours out of every day. But if it happened every 5 real-time earth days, that would be really awesome. Something to look forward to and plan operations for.

You know, that's not a bad idea.

How dark the night time is could depend on what phase the moon is on.

[Shanesan]

"Don't attack at all" is not a realistic answer to the issue of fighting at night where you can't really see being a frustrating experience. Nobody is going to accept having to stop playing until sunrise, otherwise deal with getting shot by people wearing dark red/black armor hiding in the shadows somewhere. It just isn't acceptable to expect players to appreciate those options.

I thought this way too for weather effects in Battlefield Bad Company 2. I was pleasantly surprised after I was re-experienced to the game by a friend.

Nighttime turns into a game of survival - not a game of attack. Very few people want to put themselves in a situation where they're engaging an enemy when it's harder to find them - example: Jungles.

When it turns night, people have to indulge this idea that running and gunning will most likely get you killed, because at all times you likely have people around you wanting you to make a stupid move. Instead, it's time to move into brush or buildings - sneak from location to location. It turns more into a melee game within brush, rather than a shooting game in the open. Move quickly and quietly and you will survive the night.

[wasdie]

You're wrong there, pard. Night time is about mood and having a bigger variety of cool visuals. That's really the entire point of darkness in video games. It's really never about making it hard to see, barring certain specific types of games, like the "realistic" shooters (WW2OL, ArmA, etc) or the shooter-horror games like STALKER or Metro. In the vast majority of games which bother to include night time stuff, it's done so that it's still pretty easy to see, but that the ambiance, the mood, the feeling of darkness is there.

Actually in WWII Online it used to be extremely dark at night until people complained and they made it as light as day.

Darkness, especially with a modern graphics engine like Planetside 2 will have, can be used as a gameplay element as much as something that sets the mood.

Moving under the cover of dark is a highly used technique for armies and has been since we've been hurling stones at each other.

With modern engines you can have dynamic lights, flashlights by other players, working night vision, FLIR, and other sorts of equipment that would all you to see but really expand upon the gameplay opportunities.

The best thing they could do with Planetside 2 is have a shortened day of 2-4 hours of day followed by 1-2 hours of really dark night. This way everybody will be able to play the night and day cycles and the night/day cycles will keep up with the pace of the game.

Playing ArmA 2 in the pitch black can be both annoying and incredibly rewarding and fun. If they have the right equipment, night time fights could be really strategic and offer a whole different set of gameplay possibilities than during the day.

[Warborn]

In PS1 it had particle effects and sandstorms on the desert worlds - nearly everyone had it turned off.

Yeah, people turned off foliage too. It's just a fact that not being able to see what the hell is going on is not enjoyable for players in general in a game like what Planetside is. The challenge should not be in trying to figure out where you are, where your allies are, where the enemy is, and what is even happening because it's too dark to see clearly.

Actually in WWII Online it used to be extremely dark at night until people complained and they made it as light as day.

Good news. I haven't played it in years but I'm not surprised they eventually changed it. The game was unforgiving enough, making half of the time be a complete fucking nightmare for everyone on the ground really wasn't fun.

[VioletZero]

Random suggestion: If we had Artillery in the game, we could allow them to shoot flares that explode over a target area and last like 10 seconds during the night time.

Yeah, people turned off foliage too. It's just a fact that not being able to see what the hell is going on is not enjoyable for players in general in a game like what Planetside is. The challenge should not be in trying to figure out where you are, where your allies are, where the enemy is, and what is even happening because it's too dark to see clearly.

Intelligence should definitely be a key factor in how to defeat your enemy.

That's the entire point behind this. It would test your team(Whether that be faction, outfit or squad) on your intelligence gathering abilities. And after that, it would test your ability to utilize intelligence effectively. Meanwhile, being able to effectively hide own positions to get a clear advantage.

If everyone knew where everyone was, it'd be a very uninteresting game. Especially with how they designed the shooting this game.

[Warborn]

You really ought to play EVE Online if you don't already. It has horrible, unforgiving, terrible gameplay that nobody enjoys but puts a very strong emphasis on stuff like gathering intelligence and strategic planning. Players working together is the only way to get anything significant done.

[polywomple]

You really ought to play EVE Online if you don't already. It has horrible, unforgiving, terrible gameplay that nobody enjoys but puts a very strong emphasis on stuff like gathering intelligence and strategic planning. Players working together is the only way to get anything significant done.

This is how it should be in planetside:

You can choose to lonewolf it if you want, and have a pretty good time fragging for your empire and making a decent effect

or

You could have a pretty fucking awesome time coordinating with your team-mates/outfit doing missions or special-operations

For me personally, gen dropping behind lines and strategic gal drops with team mates was the most fun I had in PS, but it wasn't mandatory for every player

[Seagoon]

You really ought to play EVE Online if you don't already. It has horrible, unforgiving, terrible gameplay that nobody enjoys but puts a very strong emphasis on stuff like gathering intelligence and strategic planning. Players working together is the only way to get anything significant done.

Please can you just simply post once the following message:

"I dont like night gameplay and I have seen a game where it did not work years ago, please dont put this in the game."

Just post that once then stop posting, because its getting a tad repetitive since you dont have anything to add to that statement and you just keep repeating it.

[Warborn]

I've said a lot more than that, but if that's all you've taken away from what I've written, well, how about just imagining that's what I write instead of me going through the trouble of writing it on my own? Then we can both be happy as clams.

[Vancha]

Actually I rather enjoyed the additional challenge weather effects brought. The sandstorm was annoying, but I think that's just because it was badly done. When it rained though I thought it was fantastic.

You really ought to play EVE Online if you don't already. It has horrible, unforgiving, terrible gameplay that nobody enjoys but puts a very strong emphasis on stuff like gathering intelligence and strategic planning. Players working together is the only way to get anything significant done.
Ah yes, people play EVE because they don't enjoy it. That's why it's the only MMO that has a growing playerbase after operating for more than 8 years, because everyone hates playing it so much.

I'd like Planetside 2 to have that kind of intelligence gathering and strategic planning. Not quite in the same ratio to combat that EVE has, but in some capacity.

[VioletZero]

You really ought to play EVE Online if you don't already. It has horrible, unforgiving, terrible gameplay that nobody enjoys but puts a very strong emphasis on stuff like gathering intelligence and strategic planning. Players working together is the only way to get anything significant done.

I actually really like EVE Online FYI.

I just hate its phenomenally slow start and awful learning curve.

[Coreldan]

The difference between PS2 and EVE in terms of intel gathering and it's importance is that in EVE you can lose dozens-hundreds of hours of work due to a single fuckup if you blow your ship/get podded/whatever.

PS2 is far more casual in that sense.

[Seagoon]

I've said a lot more than that, but if that's all you've taken away from what I've written, well, how about just imagining that's what I write instead of me going through the trouble of writing it on my own? Then we can both be happy as clams.

Ok, so if I have missed all these vital points you have been making, why dont you enlighten me?

Post them for all to see and discuss (that is what this thread is for right?).

Bonus points if you can put it in short bullet pointed sentances.

Can you do that?

I want to hear your input and discuss it, really I do.

I can do the same if you want, and we can see whos arguements come up trumps.

[AncientVanu]

Random suggestion: If we had Artillery in the game, we could allow them to shoot flares that explode over a target area and last like 10 seconds during the night time.

Intelligence should definitely be a key factor in how to defeat your enemy.

That's the entire point behind this. It would test your team(Whether that be faction, outfit or squad) on your intelligence gathering abilities. And after that, it would test your ability to utilize intelligence effectively. Meanwhile, being able to effectively hide own positions to get a clear advantage.

If everyone knew where everyone was, it'd be a very uninteresting game. Especially with how they designed the shooting this game.

So far the only thing that explains how combat will be done in such conditions are these flares that the artillery would be able to fire. Is that all? It will be a race of who can spread some light over the enemy first?
I asked about how pilots would be flying in such darkness, didn't get any answer. If we assume that no advanced simulation cockpits of aircraft will be introduced that would allow nighttime flying based on instruments, the other option is pilots to have night vision turned on all the time.
Then to effectively counter the air force that would have night vision you should have anti-air units (vehicles and infantry) also with nighttime capabilities. So we have pilots and anti-air and recons with night capabilities and everybody else is blind and depends totally on flares? When I said this has to be thoroughly thought out that's what I meant. We are here and you are there and we don't see each other how are we going to fight each other? Recons, intelligence, bla-bla... how? Apart from flairs that will light some extremely limited part of the battlefield for a short period of time how can you effectively fight if you don't see. Artillery doesn't need to see the enemy, it is guided and it can cover a larger territory due to its area of effect capabilities. What about the average soldier, or the average tank driver? How will he fight in such conditions without night vision? Even if your intelligence is perfect, and it will rarely be perfect, even if you transmit some data to him of the enemy's whereabouts he would still need to SEE to engage them effectively. And running with a flashlight in the middle of the dark battlefield is the worst idea as it will immediately make you visible from a long distance making you an easy target.
So until someone explains in detail how can you fight like a mole and still enjoy the game, I refuse to accept nighttime operations as a viable addition to the game unless everybody has access to night vision equipment.

[Rbstr]

I quite like EVE's style of internet-spaceship combat as well.

Comparing it to FPS gameplay is, basically, apples to llamas, though.

[magnatron]

I would like to see it get so dark that we have to get a flashlight out when there is no moonlight, flashlights should be standard equip just like the knife imo. add skill ups for night vision and some form of flare gun, or a flare gun for the sudy would do too. maybe even an upgrade option for the flight vehicles to drop a salvo of flares on the ground to illuminate the situation.

as far as day/night cycles goes, i see a lot of people in this thread saying they would like the day/night cycle to follow the cycle here on earth....this is unrealistic in a massive way, planets orbit the sun at different speeds, our own solar system teaches us this. and we know the length of the full day on earth is longer now than it used to be. so with what we know, its very likely that the human race will ever find a planet with the same day/night cycle or the same length of year.

if you take this simple deduction into account, along with the fact that this is a game. the suggested 8 hour day/night cycle not only could fall within reason, it will allow those of us on a set schedule to enjoy both night and daytime combat, as i would be bummed if i only got to fight during one time of day.

[WaryWizard]

There are multiple ways to lighten up the battle field besides a flare from artillery. Although flares from artillery doesn't sound that nice. I think just a flare gun, and flare options on some aircraft are good. Also aircraft can have night vision, or something similar, as a default. There could also be flood lights of some sort, and you also have moonlight. If you look at the night pictures you can see that there is a GIANT moon and a small moon. You should still be able to play the game relatively well without night vision even on the darkest nights. I just think that(from what I've seen) the night should be darkened a few candelas. Shutting down power to a base could also turn off lights (flashlights actually get some use) you could have emergency lights(empire coloured) go on so as to keep it from going pitch black

I also think each empire could have their own night vision. Red hued colour for the TR, Blue for NC and purple for VS.

Another thing is thermal. Although it may be a little op (very hard to hide from) I think it would be nice. Again empire coloured would be nice. Hot things could appear as a lightish red and go down to maroon as it gets colder, and eventually going black. NC could have yellow to blue to very dark blue. Vanu could have Cyan to purple to very dark purple.


Just a thought

[Seagoon]

-snip-


man you presume a lot of stuff...

Firstly, like I keep saying but no one listens (maybe they dont want to?) :

There is already going to be lots of light sources through out the map, areas might be very dark, but where people are and where combat is, light will follow. On top of that, like I keep saying, the brightness of night DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A FIXED VALUE, it can very easily change over time or night by night on a number of variables if the devs so desire to implement them, and none of them are hard to do either.

On to the other points:

1) Base lighting, we have seen screenshots of bases at night, they have lights everywhere and floodlights for courtyards and so on. This would naturally extend to towers and other structures outside bases. There might even be catseyes for driving on roads at night.

2) vehicle lights, all vehicles (maybe even flying ones) have headlights that can turn on and off. I can see a simple upgrade for tanks being a powerful spotlight that can attach to the turret.

3) infantry will have flares and torches that can be used to light areas around them, they can also use grenade launcher launched flares to light areas. Saying that these will be short lived or low powered is just silly, these are two factors that can be changed with just a number edited by the devs, you have no proof or reason to think that they would be that way.

4) how would an aircraft attack at night?
Well, just like with the infantry and ground forces night will impare their ability to attack, however, vehicles will have headlights to spot them by and infantry will be firing tracers and using flares. Maybe you wont be able to see the infantry or vehicles trying to be stealthy, but the ones in combat will be easy to see.

5) how will aircraft fly ?
We have already seen a example hud of the aircraft that show two important things required for night flying: A virtual horizon and an altitude meter.
with these two instruments you can easily fly at night.
On top of that, night does not mean everything is black... thats not how night works ffs. Only on completely overcast nights with a newmoon is that the case.
There will most likely be silhouettes of the terrain for you to fly by.

[AncientVanu]

On top of that, night does not mean everything is black... thats not how night works ffs. Only on completely overcast nights with a newmoon is that the case.
There will most likely be silhouettes of the terrain for you to fly by.

I see some misunderstanding here, I'm fine with the way the night in PS2 looks like from what we've seen on the screenshots. I was arguing with the people who want to make it totally dark as they are proposing it but not providing enough info on how would it work for the players. In addition to that "very dark night" they want to remove night vision, which by the looks of it might not be needed if the night is as it has been presented in the screenshots, but which would absolutely be necessary if the night is made as some people are proposing it to be (dark as it is in reality).

[WaryWizard]

2) vehicle lights, all vehicles (maybe even flying ones) have headlights that can turn on and off. I can see a simple upgrade for tanks being a powerful spotlight that can attach to the turret.

3) infantry will have torches


I think spotlight might be a better word to use for aircraft. At least I hope it is something like that.

Also will infantry be getting regular torches or is it a "Safety Torch" :p

[Seagoon]

I see some misunderstanding here, I'm fine with the way the night in PS2 looks like from what we've seen on the screenshots. I was arguing with the people who want to make it totally dark as they are proposing it but not providing enough info on how would it work for the players. In addition to that "very dark night" they want to remove night vision, which by the looks of it might not be needed if the night is as it has been presented in the screenshots, but which would absolutely be necessary if the night is made as some people are proposing it to be (dark as it is in reality).

Actually I am one of those people who think that night should be as dark as reality, but people dont seem to know what night is actually like. Maybe they are mostly from citys and dont see real night often?

Anyway, my point is that night SHOULD be pitch black if it is an over cast night or if there is no moon. However it should also be everything inbetween, and each of these different levels of light will provide a different battlefield to take advantage of.

My post is trying to explain, that even if it is pitch black, there will be plenty of ways to spot things, sure it will be harder than during mid day, and maybe if someone really does not want to be seen they can use it to their advantage, but at the same time, other people already in combat, with flares, tracers, headlights and so on will be provding plenty of light to attack back with out having to resort to basically saying sod it to darkness and including IR or enhanced lowlight.

I think spotlight might be a better word to use for aircraft. At least I hope it is something like that.

Also will infantry be getting regular torches or is it a "Safety Torch" :p

Yeah that does make sense to give aircraft spotlights :P
Spotlights being used to spot things at a distance and to light large areas, and headlights just being used to aid in driving, aircraft not really needing to worry about roads might need somthing a bit stronger. navigation lights might be cool to see streaking across the sky... Although IRL they turn those off in combat situations.

And also I hope if they do include dark nights they also include proper lights for infantry, it should not have to be an attachment for the gun. (and no blinding with flashlights like in BF3, THAT IS annoying)

[AncientVanu]

Basically some people are proposing a very dark night where you won't be able to use night vision, and will be totally dependent on "intelligence", running with flashlight around... This sounds like a terrible mole fight. Currently in the US army all vehicles, be it a humvee, a Striker, an M1A2 or a helicopter has night vision equipment, even the A-10C crews are using night vision goggles even though they have FLIR capable targeting pods. Yes cause in the real night, the one that some of you so anxiously expect to see in PS2 you can't see **** and you don't fight with flashlights. I can't imagine why someone would want to fight like that and consider it enjoyable.
So it's either the night from the screens, or it's a pitch black night but with the use of night vision equipment, without it it would be a parody.

[WaryWizard]

http://i.imgur.com/GjOwu.png


Quick mock up. Make the world map look like this. Easy at a glance figuring where its light and where its dark. Looks cool too, and better gives the impression that its a planet.

Just remembered that picture. If they made something like this when you are choosing a continent, players who are afraid of the dark can just go fight on continents that the sun is rising on. That would give then a good amount of time to fight in daylight.


Also that 7 hour day. Mathematically it is the best one imo. You can experience all the different times of day if you go to the same continent at the same time everyday and play for an hour every day for a week.

[NewSith]

Also that 7 hour day. Mathematically it is the best one imo. You can experience all the different times of day if you go to the same continent at the same time everyday and play for an hour every day for a week.

Most of prime numbers of hours do that. If you pack it in 24 limit that would be 1, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23.

EDIT: HMMM, actually no, 2 and 3 don't work...

[WaryWizard]

Any prime number of hours does that. If you pack it in 24 limit that would be 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23.

The 5 repeats after 5 days(24 in-game days). The other numbers are either too long or too short. Wait are you saying every game will repeat after a week or every game will repeat after x days when x= amount hours in an in-game day?

[NewSith]

Semi-related note - if you want to force leaning away from alltime-nightvision, you can make nightvision have some undesired visual effects for the user. Like a bright glow of a visor or something. So a person not using the NV will have advantage over the one with it.

Example:
TRCyclerPr0 runs with nighvision off.
ImarkpeoplENC snipes with nighvision off.
ImarkpeoplENC turns nightvision on to find TRCyclerPr0 on the field.
ImarkpeoplENC looks for a black sihloette on the green background.
Meanwhile TRCyclerPr0 spots a suddenly appearing blue glow coming from far infront.
TRCyclerPr0 shoots and kills ImarkpeoplENC.

[NewSith]

Wait are you saying every game will repeat after a week or every game will repeat after x days when x= amount hours in an in-game day?

RL hours, yup.

[WaryWizard]

Semi-related note - if you want to force leaning away from alltime-nightvision, you can make nightvision have some undesired visual effects for the user. Like a bright glow of a visor or something. So a person not using the NV will have advantage over the one with it.

Example:
TRCyclerPr0 runs with nighvision off.
ImarkpeoplENC snipes with nighvision off.
ImarkpeoplENC turns nightvision on to find TRCyclerPr0 on the field.
ImarkpeoplENC looks for a black sihloette on the green background.
Meanwhile TRCyclerPr0 spots a suddenly appearing blue glow coming from far infront.
TRCyclerPr0 shoots and kills ImarkpeoplENC.

well you know the fact that everything goes green(or whatever colour design they choose) is also a deterrent.

[NewSith]

well you know the fact that everything goes green(or whatever colour design they choose) is also a deterrent.
More like: There should be an option to not use the nightvision and be on par with anyone who uses it.

To illustrate my idea:
SCDAvs Spy (http://youtu.be/ow_6mveaiA0?t=1m40s) and SCDAvs Merc (http://youtu.be/5-MjG0MM-yE?t=3m50s)

[DayOne]

Dark nights is a brilliant idea and would be fantastic IMO. It creates a whole new dimension to game play and with simple counter measures, flares, night vision, thermal vision, it is not like it's a problem in big battles.

The reason it would be so good is because of the possibility of going all Sam Fisher on the enemies. (I'm also hoping knives are similar to Battlefield 3)

The ability to sneak to a base under cover of dark, cut the power to the lights and then set up some sort of C4 to blow the place sky high while your outfit distracts the guys in the base with an attack force just down the road gives me goosebumps. But it could all go horribly wrong if someone decided to turn on the high powered floodlights linked directly to the genny.

This idea also goes hand in hand with the prospects of customisation and, hopefully in future, being able to construct things in the filed.

As mentioned before additions like torches and spot lights so you can see where you're going but light you up like a Christmas tree. Also if you are that deathly afraid of the dark, sit in your factions forward base with all the portable floodlights set up around the perimeter.

I think as well glow sticks could be a pretty cool addition to the game. I can imagine a squad of guys huddled in a cave bathed in green light planning on what to do next.

EDIT: Your eyes adjusting to the situation, as mentioned before, is also good. If you jump out a vehicle into the dark you can't see sh*t. Stay out in the dark for a minute or two and you can see fine. This could also allow for red torches that don't destroy your night vision but aren't as bright so you can't see as much with them.

[Vancha]

As I said on page 2, 7 hours seems to work best. It fits into the number of hours in a week and it's short enough that people with 3 hours to play aren't likely to get stuck playing entirely during the night (unless they log on just as it goes dark). It also ensures people who log on at the same time every day (real world) get to play at various times of day (Auraxis) throughout the week.

6, 8 and 12 hour days mean people get stuck playing at the same times. 8 hours is the most forgiving of these, but it still means you'd have night-haters getting stuck playing entirely at night every other day of the week.

5, 9, 10 and 11 hour days don't fit into a real world 24 hours or 168 hours (1 week)

8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 hour days risk nights being too long, even if people get a variation throughout the week. Hell, even 7 is pushing it.

4 could work, but it risks nights being too short. This is probably the best option other than 7.

as far as day/night cycles goes, i see a lot of people in this thread saying they would like the day/night cycle to follow the cycle here on earth....
Yeah, if by "a lot of people" you mean "one person".

Basically some people are proposing a very dark night where you won't be able to use night vision
Again with the "people". Name them. I count one person.

[AncientVanu]

Again with the "people". Name them. I count one person.

I won't go through 8 pages just to find the names of those proposing crazy stuff. Suffice to say the OP started this thread with that idea of dark nights, which by itself is not a bad one, then several people (you can find their names if you want) approved it and then some added night vision should be excluded. So there you go, how from this:
http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/viewer.php?img_id=1853
you go through this:
http://www.garysdetecting.co.uk/night_vision.htmgen2tree.jpg
and at the end you end up here:
http://images.kaneva.com/filestore9/5172405/6374472/black.jpg

[Vancha]

I won't go through 8 pages just to find the names of those proposing crazy stuff. Suffice to say the OP started this thread with that idea of dark nights, which by itself is not a bad one, then several people (you can find their names if you want) approved it and then some added night vision should be excluded.
I said I counted 1 person. I read the thread. "Several people" is a fabrication. Violet proposed night vision being restricted to recon. The closest anyone else got to that was WaryWizard when he said people should still be able to play relatively well even without night vision on the darkest nights.

I know you might feel passionately about this, but try not to make things up.

So there you go, how from this:
http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/viewer.php?img_id=1853
you go through this:
http://www.garysdetecting.co.uk/night_vision.htmgen2tree.jpg
and at the end you end up here:
http://images.kaneva.com/filestore9/5172405/6374472/black.jpg
Just wondering, but do any proponents of dark nights want everywhere at night to be the level of pitch black in that third image? Anybody?

[DayOne]

has anyone ever been in the country side at night? It gets pretty dark even at dusk. Now although this game shouldn't go to realistic extremes and out on plains it would be fairly well lit due to the moon it should certainly be difficult to see an enemy if they are unlit and not silhouetted against something in a forest, or canyon.

Also remember something like a torch doesn't just give off a cone of light, it reflects of other surfaces to light up the general area too.

And how about glow sticks? Ones that perhaps detonate on impact so you throw it at where there might be an enemy. There is sound you know, you can hear footsteps. You being killed at night is your own incompetence.

[Graywolves]

has anyone ever been in the country side at night? It gets pretty dark even at dusk. Now although this game shouldn't go to realistic extremes and out on plains it would be fairly well lit due to the moon it should certainly be difficult to see an enemy if they are unlit and not silhouetted against something in a forest, or canyon.

Also remember something like a torch doesn't just give off a cone of light, it reflects of other surfaces to light up the general area too.

And how about glow sticks? Ones that perhaps detonate on impact so you throw it at where there might be an enemy. There is sound you know, you can hear footsteps. You being killed at night is your own incompetence.

GLOWSTICKS!

I WANT TO THROW GLOW STICKS ON THE GROUND AND HANG THEM FROM BRANCHES!!!!

And not tactical glowsticks that you can barely see. I want to have a Rave dance off against the VS.

[Seagoon]

This is what I want night to look like:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/SFO_at_night.jpg/640px-SFO_at_night.jpg

lots of light, but also lots of dark, and as soon as anyone starts firing or driving or whatever they get lit up.

Things missing in the picture though: flares, vehicles and squads using torches and headlights and spotlights, tracers, explosions and that squad who is not using any and sneeking around like a boss.

Im sure I could find a better pic, but this is what I found on google images in 5 seconds searching 'night' pretend that the airport is a base ...

EDIT: you know posting pics of what sort of darkness you think night should be might be a better way of getting the ideas across...

[DayOne]

^that.

And if you are really not satisfied then remember in future you will likely be able to set up extra lights and so-on.

[DayOne]

http://images2.layoutsparks.com/1/216269/dark-forbidden-apple-night-31000.jpg

With the light bit being the edge of the forest.

[BorisBlade]

Goodness no, I can see the issues with that right away.

I really meant just having night and day cycles that reflect real life.

no, i dont want it to always be night or day every single time i play after work. It cant be synced with real time of day or its boring. Its better to have it, for example, on a 21 hour schedule or whatever so that sometimes its day and sometimes its night and all in between even if you always play at the exact same times each day. Keeping it an odd number to let the slow shift between game time and real time each night eventually cover all times of day so you get to experience everything. Honestly a 14 hour day is kinda cool. You get decently long cycles of day and night but short enough to keep things shifting up enough to help keep it exciting.

[DayOne]

I think 7 hours is better, days/nights aren't too long so they get boring but sufficiently long you get to do stuff that requires darkness. Also it keeps the time on Auraxis varied to the time on Earth, but not so different you have no way of knowing if it'll be day or night with out a bunch of maths.

[Graywolves]

Imagine how awesome night battles would be on Ceryshen

[Vash02]

Would be cool if they had human night vision. As in when you first go outside from a bright lit room, its pitch black but after a while your eyes get used to the dark.

[Warborn]

Ok, so if I have missed all these vital points you have been making, why dont you enlighten me?

Post them for all to see and discuss (that is what this thread is for right?).

How can I resist an opportunity to rewrite everything I've already said in a thread before? Why, I just can't, I'll tell ya plainly.

Okay, so first, some terminology. Just off the cuff, let's define the two kinds of night time/otherwise dark areas that you typically see in vidja games.

First one, let's call it "real darkness". Real darkness attempts to simulate the kind of darkness we simple folk experience on moonless nights with no snow cover, where you can't see more than a handful of metres ahead of you with any real clarity, and distances of a hundred metres or more are indiscernible.

Real darkness is used in games in order to create very tense atmospheres, and/or to simulate realistic circumstances. The former instance is best portrayed by games like Amnesia, the "and" by games like Metro, the "or" by games like ArmA or Ghost Recon, where it's dark but you can use night vision and stuff to essentially negate it in most cases.

The second kind of dark I'll call "soft darkness". Soft darkness is used for mood/ambiance/atmosphere but has very limited gameplay effects. This is the kind of darkness we see most often in games. There's really a laundry list to choose from, but good examples are Diablo 3, Teamfortress 2, Hal-Life 2, Left 4 Dead 1 and 2, and Skyrim.

Soft darkness is used when you want night time, and the "feel" of night time, but you're not making one of the aforementioned games in which real darkness is appropriate. So you're not making a scary game, you're not making a scary/realistic game, or you're not making a realistic game. Games with soft darkness tend to be more accessible to players overall, and being out at night is not meant to in itself be a serious impediment to gameplay.

With that said, which is appropriate for Planetside 2? Are they making a game about scary, dark places? Maybe they're making a really tense shooter that's all about gritty realism? Or maybe the game will be about accurately portraying warfare in the year something-something?

No! No to all of it. Planetside 2 is a quasi-realistic shooter, just like Planetside 1 was. Real darkness in this case has no place. For the kind of game that Planetside games are, having darkness be a real impediment to gameplay is totally inappropriate.

Oh, and I guess I'll also say: One time I played a game and it was dark and I didn't like it. Or whatever you claim I've been saying this whole time. Even though I actually really like dark games and always get the "darker nights" mods for Fallout 3/NV/Skyrim/Stalker/etc. It's just that it isn't right for the kind of game Planetside 2 is going to be.


Final thought. I'm not saying that night should be the exact same brightness as day. It can even be dark enough that people could benefit from having night vision, flash lights, etc. Dark enough that a cloaker could move more easily without being seen. But if it's so dark that people can't effectively engage at long range even without some kind of illumination attachment, where people would have to rely on some kind of illuminating equipment to see what the hell is going on like in real darkness, that is what I'm saying is inappropriate. Again, dig the examples I've provided. There are times in Skyrim where having a torch helps, in HL2 where using your flash light is useful. But you're never blind without these tools, and you can always see fairly well. That's what this game needs to do.

[AncientVanu]

^^ Nice post, I agree with everything you said and the last paragraph sums it up pretty well.

[Vancha]

First one, let's call it "real darkness". Real darkness attempts to simulate the kind of darkness we simple folk experience on moonless nights with no snow cover, where you can't see more than a handful of metres ahead of you with any real clarity, and distances of a hundred metres or more are indiscernible.

Real darkness is used in games in order to create very tense atmospheres, and/or to simulate realistic circumstances. The former instance is best portrayed by games like Amnesia, the "and" by games like Metro, the "or" by games like ArmA or Ghost Recon, where it's dark but you can use night vision and stuff to essentially negate it in most cases.

The second kind of dark I'll call "soft darkness". Soft darkness is used for mood/ambiance/atmosphere but has very limited gameplay effects. This is the kind of darkness we see most often in games. There's really a laundry list to choose from, but good examples are Diablo 3, Teamfortress 2, Hal-Life 2, Left 4 Dead 1 and 2, and Skyrim.

Soft darkness is used when you want night time, and the "feel" of night time, but you're not making one of the aforementioned games in which real darkness is appropriate. So you're not making a scary game, you're not making a scary/realistic game, or you're not making a realistic game. Games with soft darkness tend to be more accessible to players overall, and being out at night is not meant to in itself be a serious impediment to gameplay.

With that said, which is appropriate for Planetside 2? Are they making a game about scary, dark places? Maybe they're making a really tense shooter that's all about gritty realism? Or maybe the game will be about accurately portraying warfare in the year something-something?

No! No to all of it. Planetside 2 is a quasi-realistic shooter, just like Planetside 1 was. Real darkness in this case has no place. For the kind of game that Planetside games are, having darkness be a real impediment to gameplay is totally inappropriate.
This has to be some of the worst reasoning in regards to whether something should be added to a game I've ever heard.

[Warborn]

Good rebuttal. I hadn't considered those points you brought up there. Touche sir. Well-played.

[Vancha]

X has only appeared in Y and Z.

A isn't Y or Z.

Therefore, X is completely inappropriate for A.

Do I really need to explain the problems with that?

[Zulthus]

X has only appeared in Y and Z.

A isn't Y or Z.

Therefore, X is completely inappropriate for A.



Pretty much the summary of Warborn's post.

[Warborn]

Do I really need to explain the problems with that?

No, of course you're right, it's all just a coincidence, I'm sure of it.

Players don't like to not know what the hell is going on. Nobody likes getting killed by someone they can't even see because it's too dark. People don't tolerate that kind of stuff unless it's just that kind of game. Planetside 2 isn't that kind of game. Instead it's something that is meant to appeal to as broad an audience as possible. Putting in amazingly frustrating experiences like really dark nights would drive off more people than it would ensnare with its lame appeal to strategy or depth.

It isn't an accident that games like Fallout 3 or Half-Life 2 have pretty bright nights and somehow manage to be Game of the Year material. People who're looking to play a game like Fallout 3 or Half-Life 2 aren't looking for the kind of experience that consists of roaming around in the dark, unable to see anything, while someone, somewhere shoots them in the balls. Ditto for Planetside 2.

You can say that, well, if you use teamwork and coordination and something-something, but most people will not be actively working together when they play the game. Only a minority will ever really get organized. So making something that demands coordination and teamwork to achieve anything will only make the game what they call "inaccessible". Which is "not a good thing".

zero content, nothing of value even attempted

This is an accurate summary of every post you've ever made.

[Zulthus]

This is an accurate summary of every post you've ever made. [citation needed]



Please back this up with evidence. All 800+ of my posts.

[Saintlycow]

It has to be dark without being dark. Hrm

[Bags]

WArborn, if you play on PC you should never need a torch in Skyrim.

just sayin'

[Shade Millith]

I don't really know what to think on this.

I like the IDEA for realism, but at the same time...

I'm on the fence for this one.

[cellinaire]

I personally don't care as long as it's not pitch black.

[WaryWizard]

All of Warborn's posts have been about not wanting pitch black nights I agree. I do however want the night to be a little darker than it currently is.

[Hamma]

Night should be very dark but you have to remember they need to keep the fun element in too. If it was so dark everyone needed to crank their gamma or have special unlocks (NV, Thermal) in order to compete that is not fun for everyone.

The game design requires it to be at least fun or people will not look forward to it or avoid the game during night.

As much as I'd love pitch black it just won't work because of what I mentioned above. It has to be fun first and foremost.

[Khellendros]

My view is that night needs to be dark enough to induce a change in how we play. In other words, if we do everything at night exactly the same way we do in daytime, then it is not dark enough. Night is a way to bring a little more variety to the game.

Some people are complaining that night would be boring, but I can't see that, honestly. It multiplies the tactical and strategic possibilities in this game, and that is a good thing. Say, that base that was so difficult to take in the day because of it's great defensive sight lines? Maybe the cover of night will allow the attacking forces to execute some tactic that wasn't possible during the day.

I think it's going to be awesome.

[Vancha]

No, of course you're right, it's all just a coincidence, I'm sure of it.

Players don't like to not know what the hell is going on. Nobody likes getting killed by someone they can't even see because it's too dark. People don't tolerate that kind of stuff unless it's just that kind of game. Planetside 2 isn't that kind of game. Instead it's something that is meant to appeal to as broad an audience as possible. Putting in amazingly frustrating experiences like really dark nights would drive off more people than it would ensnare with its lame appeal to strategy or depth.

It isn't an accident that games like Fallout 3 or Half-Life 2 have pretty bright nights and somehow manage to be Game of the Year material. People who're looking to play a game like Fallout 3 or Half-Life 2 aren't looking for the kind of experience that consists of roaming around in the dark, unable to see anything, while someone, somewhere shoots them in the balls. Ditto for Planetside 2.

You can say that, well, if you use teamwork and coordination and something-something, but most people will not be actively working together when they play the game. Only a minority will ever really get organized. So making something that demands coordination and teamwork to achieve anything will only make the game what they call "inaccessible". Which is "not a good thing".
Before Planetside, you could use similar logic to say an FPS game should never be an MMO, but fortunately someone had the balls to try it. "It isn't an accident that all the successful FPS' have 32 players maximum. Nobody likes being killed by someone they can't even see because they're invisible, there's a reason stealth roles only exist in single player games. Putting in extremely frustrating experiences like having to rely on other players to drive or command etc. would drive off more players than it'd draw. There's a reason we put such things in the hands of AI and mission objectives.

By all means try and find flaws in an idea, but to say something shouldn't be done because it hasn't been done is just silly.

http://i.imgur.com/59hIs.jpg

That isn't what I'm advocating and I'm not sure anyone else is either. As WaryWizard said, people should be able to operate effectively without requiring night vision.

[Warborn]

By all means try and find flaws in an idea, but to say something shouldn't be done because it hasn't been done is just silly.

It has been done. Am I a broken record? I feel like I am. It's been done, and done, and done in all sorts of games. It's easy to see what people will enjoy and under what circumstances. But it isn't like MMOs have never done this before, either. Dark nights, hard to see? Well, WW2OL came out two years before Planetside did, it's an MMOFPS which had seriously dark nights. EverQuest had seriously dark nights, and it came out even earlier. Dark nights have been done in MMOFPS games, MMORPGs, and all manner of single-player and online multiplayer forms.

So no, Planetside 2 having really dark nights would not be a new thing. It would be something that has been done before, and its results would be predictable based on that.

edit: Read my next paragraph before you respond to this because I don't think we're actually on different sides of the issue here.

http://i.imgur.com/59hIs.jpg

That isn't what I'm advocating and I'm not sure anyone else is either. As WaryWizard said, people should be able to operate effectively without requiring night vision.

Hah, what a joke. You know what some of the words I've been writing have been? Well, one particular phrase is: People should be able to operate effectively without requiring night vision. That's my line. You've stolen it. The side I'm arguing against is the side that says if you go out without night vision you shouldn't be able to see basically anything. That's what VioletZero and others are advocating. It's this whole big thing about forcing people to somehow be more strategic because nobody really has any idea what's happening because it's too dark. Violet literally billed it, unironically, as inhibiting gameplay enjoyment for the sake of deeper strategy, and made a fucking poll about it that people voted against making the game fun in. You see what I'm up against, here?

I like darkness. I like the night time. I always use darker nights/dungeons/whatever mods for my games. But I also like being able to perceive the game world. Finding a balance between having a cool, atmospheric night experience but not a) killing players' eyes or b) forcing them to play in a very particular fashion because of something arbitrary like time of day is all I'm against. Having darkness where distant shapes aren't so clear but you can make out movement and stuff, and having night vision/flashlights/etc is an asset, that's all cool.

Hell, I'd even like it if destroying the generator of a base plunged it into that Aliens style red emergency light business. Using lighting for atmosphere and mood is great, just so long as it doesn't grind gameplay to a standstill.

[DayOne]

What if night vision/torches etc. were only needed inside? Say, abandoned buildings, canyons, as mentioned before, thick forests/jungles?

[Vancha]

Read my next paragraph before you respond to this because I don't think we're actually on different sides of the issue here.
Are you sure you're arguing against anyone other than Violet? As I said a couple of pages back, I went through the entire thread and the only person who said either that game days should be as long as real-world days or that nightvision should be restricted in any way (to recon, in this case), was Violet. Similarly, the only people who've proposed anything near the extremes of darkness have suggested either having eyes adjust in the dark, having ample light sources and having it be a special event in the lunar cycle...I'm not sure anyone's arguing for the thing you're imagining.

You should still be able to play the game relatively well without night vision even on the darkest nights. I just think that(from what I've seen) the night should be darkened a few candelas.
This is the quote I was talking about.

Also, I'm not sure citing examples of games that came before Planetside, nearly a decade ago, are good examples as for why something that's graphically dependent shouldn't be added to a game. Lighting and shadows have come a long way since WWII Online...

[Warborn]

There have been a few other people who argued against me earlier on and concurred with what Violet wrote otherwise. Would it be a major problem if it was the original poster alone I was arguing with? I mean, that isn't the case, but would it make a difference?

The first page is entirely people agreeing with the OP. "Do you agree with making night time super dark like it is in real life? Post your thoughts." is how the OP ended, followed by a series of "I agree"'s. So what are you going on about here, that nobody is in favour of what I'm "imagining" people are? Until I said something the only issue there was discussion over was how long these super-dark nights should last.

[Vancha]

There have been a few other people who argued against me earlier on and concurred with what Violet wrote otherwise. Would it be a major problem if it was the original poster alone I was arguing with? I mean, that isn't the case, but would it make a difference?

The first page is entirely people agreeing with the OP. "Do you agree with making night time super dark like it is in real life? Post your thoughts." is how the OP ended, followed by a series of "I agree"'s. So what are you going on about here, that nobody is in favour of what I'm "imagining" people are? Until I said something the only issue there was discussion over was how long these super-dark nights should last.
Yes, dark. Dark enough to impact gameplay. Not "anemic". No one used the words pitch black except Jimmuc on page 2.

Are you surprised that people explain themselves more elaborately when they're being argued with? Both Seagoon and Wary clarified their stances within 3 pages. Even Hmr who sounds like he was closest to Violet's vision of night fighting advocated some level of ability to see, with plenty of light sources and easily accessible night vision.

Edit: And yes, if you're referring to "people" and arguing against a group of people when you're only in disagreement with one person, I'd say it probably makes a difference.

[Warborn]

Oh okay well I guess we don't agree or maybe we do I don't know but hey let's keep making arguing about it anyway hurf durf postin' on the Internet.

[Vancha]

What can I say? I like making arguing.

[TheBladeRoden]

If one team takes out the generator, the base lights better flicker out and it's all dark with but a few sporadic emergency lights here and there. Then you'd have your survival horror for the defending team. OOoOoOoh! Spooky!

[Coreldan]

ANT running has been replaced with...

...flare duty :D

Think, if the designated flare guy fails to illuminate the battlefield, the TR and VS scum might get to surprise us!

[stordito]

i'm fine with the level of darkness i've seen in the9 trailer.
not too bright, not too dark.
explosions and tracers will do the rest.

[Graywolves]

There's no point to not have a dark night if everyone has flashlights.

[Grognard]

Battlefield 2: Special Forces Intro - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0xFsrlUEpE)

And people play it...

I was on the fence with this one, but this video convinced me... it reminded me of when I was in the marines skulking around at night... I am in favor of various light low-light levels to include very dark - mother natures ubiquitous smoke. Knives come out, NVGs come out, etc.

Yep, night fights sound good... just sneakin around in the dark sounds cozy-cool. Hearing tanks comming with lights off, no visuals, just the eerie sound that they are comming... yep, gimme some 'o' that... :groovy:

[Warborn]

There's no point to not have a dark night if everyone has flashlights.

We don't take kindly to you cityfolk and your double negatives in this thread, pardner.

[Grognard]

There's no point to not have a dark night if everyone has flashlights.

We don't take kindly to you cityfolk and your double negatives in this thread, pardner.

This isnt actually a double negative is it?

Example: We dont got no double negatives, would be...

[Zulthus]

We don't take kindly to you cityfolk and your double negatives in this thread, pardner.

Yeah, that's not a double negative.

[DayOne]

There's no point to not have a dark night if everyone has flashlights.

It IS a double negative, it just one that supports dark nights. :D

[Warborn]

This isnt actually a double negative is it?

"There's no point to not having blah blah"

We should totally make this thread about English grammar now.

[Grognard]

"There's no point to not having blah blah"

We should totally make this thread about English grammar now.

Exactly, no refers to "point", and not refers to "have a dark night", linked by "to", is how I read it. :D

Example: "Dont got no double negatives", "Dont" and "no" both refer to "double negatives".

[Vancha]

He essentially said "there's no reason not to", which I don't think qualifies as a double negative, since you can't cancel them out and retain the same intention.

[DayOne]

He essentially said "there's no reason not to", which I don't think qualifies as a double negative, since you can't cancel them out and retain the same intention.

- "There's no reason too."
- "There's no reason not too."

They cancel out and it is therefore a double negative.

There, solved. Any chance of getting back on topic?

[Grognard]

- "There's no reason too."
- "There's no reason not too."

They cancel out and it is therefore a double negative.

There, solved. Any chance of getting back on topic?

Too = also. Credibility tarnished :) Just a joke friend :)

[Warborn]

There, solved. Any chance of getting back on topic?

Do you really want to? I think this thread is about to reach its climax. Quickly, someone use a semi-colon improperly; firetruck.

[Grognard]

Do you really want to? I think this thread is about to reach its climax. Quickly, someone use a semi-colon improperly; firetruck.

Haha :D

[DayOne]

Too = also. Credibility tarnished :) Just a joke friend :)

Darn, I shall go back to my cave and whip myself until I learn. :doh:

[Grognard]

I know there are some concerns about not readily seeing targets being a problem, Ive felt that myself from time to time in dark games...

However, in first person, when I can kinda simulate looking around, and sneaking, and how do I say this... trying to access my 6th sense when I sense eerie danger... it seems to be a trade off, but a good one, for me.

Even in movies, when you can only hear the sounds of the enemy rolling (or walking) up slowly from what seems to be ev-er-y-where, in the dark, knowing that at anytime a battle could explode into a mass CQB... or point-blank fire clusterf*ck... is a lot of fun to watch.

This does not sound like a blast, so to speak? No one wants "Darkside 2", but do we really want to give up the stuff only the night can bring? A moderate cycle of darkness, that is sometimes very dark, with a bigger light-cycle, weather and all, seems like a lot of immersion, to me...

[Vancha]

- "There's no reason too."
- "There's no reason not too."

They cancel out and it is therefore a double negative.
Nope. If they cancel out, you end up with "there's reason to", which isn't the same as "there's no reason not to".

Edit: I'd be amazed if anyone managed to come up with a decent point on the topic that hadn't already been discussed by now.

[Graywolves]

Nope. The negatives were for different nouns which is clear with the sentence. Although in the same sentence, there is no contradiction or canceling.

The rules of grammar are more like guidelines anyways.

http://www.fusedfilm.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/20485-26015.gif

[Warborn]

Okay, let's see here. It's not about canceling out or nouns or anything, it's about implying a positive within a single sentence despite using negatives. Saying "there's no point in not something-something" implies there is a reason to something-something. You should have, in this, simply said "If everyone has flashlights then there should be dark nights" or whatever it was you were actually saying.

On the other hand, "there's no reason not to" is a double negative but I think it's considered stylistically appropriate. Double negatives don't seem to be strictly inappropriate, and some of them are permissible.

WELP

[NewSith]

Okay, let's see here. It's not about canceling out or nouns or anything, it's about implying a positive within a single sentence despite using negatives. Saying "there's no point in not something-something" implies there is a reason to something-something. You should have, in this, simply said "If everyone has flashlights then there should be dark nights" or whatever it was you were actually saying.

On the other hand, "there's no reason not to" is a double negative but I think it's considered stylistically appropriate. Double negatives don't seem to be strictly inappropriate, and some of them are permissible.

I think it's because negative here highlights the object, while positive highlights the word "reason".

Also Hamma is gonna delete everything here and give us a warning.

[Vancha]

Saying "there's no point in not something-something" implies there is a reason to something-something.
There's no reason not to blink twice.

Is there a reason to blink twice? No, but that doesn't mean there's a reason not to.

[Warborn]

There's no reason not to blink twice.

Is there a reason to blink twice? No, but that doesn't mean there's a reason not to.

You're implying there is in saying that.


Check out this thing I just farted out:

STALKER: Call of Pripyat at night. (http://i.imgur.com/Jcni4.jpg) Meant to be scary and realistic because there are lots of mutants running around at night and STALKER attempts a degree of realism.

ArmA2 at night. (http://i.imgur.com/r0sq0.jpg) Meant to be realistic. You have night optics, thermal imaging, etc to defeat the darkness.

Skyrim at night. (http://i.imgur.com/1UFa6.jpg) Not meant to be scary or realistic, but rather strictly atmospheric.

Versus:
http://i.imgur.com/B0YW2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PsY3v.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QLO6Q.jpg


The first two pictures, from ArmA and STALKER, are what VioletZero was advocating as far as I could tell. Various people agreed with her stance of "must use night vision or must not fight at night at all". That's unacceptable and as you can see from those shots night in realistically dark games is really dark.

Skyrim, on the other hand, is pretty silly. There is no detriment at all to visibility at night. Underground you might use a torch now and then but that's pushing it, even.

Finally, the last three images are night time shots from Planetside 2. I think they've found the perfect balance. First, it looks amazing. Very atmospheric. Second, it impairs vision somewhat but you're not crippled. There's still room for night vision, lamps for guns and helmets and stuff, and otherwise darkness-defeating options. BUT, you're hardly crippled by the lack of it. You can easily see off into the distance a ways, although there'd certainly be a greater potential for stealth. Conversely, firing a weapon would make a very noticeable flash from the way it looks to me.

So there's that. That's a snapshot of the two extremes we find in gaming, the ultra-realistic and the "who gives a math" approaches, and the happy middleground Planetside 2 has found. Look at yonder photographs and imagine which is most appropriate for a MMO like Planetside, a game not about realism or scary mutants, but about fun gameplay and cool visuals. If you've decided what they've shown is what they should do, you are right. Everyone else is wrong. Always. You're always wrong.

[WaryWizard]

You're implying there is in saying that.


Check out this thing I just farted out:

STALKER: Call of Pripyat at night. (http://i.imgur.com/Jcni4.jpg) Meant to be scary and realistic because there are lots of mutants running around at night and STALKER attempts a degree of realism.

ArmA2 at night. (http://i.imgur.com/r0sq0.jpg) Meant to be realistic. You have night optics, thermal imaging, etc to defeat the darkness.

Skyrim at night. (http://i.imgur.com/1UFa6.jpg) Not meant to be scary or realistic, but rather strictly atmospheric.

Versus:
http://i.imgur.com/B0YW2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PsY3v.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QLO6Q.jpg


The first two pictures, from ArmA and STALKER, are what VioletZero was advocating as far as I could tell. Various people agreed with her stance of "must use night vision or must not fight at night at all". That's unacceptable and as you can see from those shots night in realistically dark games is really dark.

Skyrim, on the other hand, is pretty silly. There is no detriment at all to visibility at night. Underground you might use a torch now and then but that's pushing it, even.

Finally, the last three images are night time shots from Planetside 2. I think they've found the perfect balance. First, it looks amazing. Very atmospheric. Second, it impairs vision somewhat but you're not crippled. There's still room for night vision, lamps for guns and helmets and stuff, and otherwise darkness-defeating options. BUT, you're hardly crippled by the lack of it. You can easily see off into the distance a ways, although there'd certainly be a greater potential for stealth. Conversely, firing a weapon would make a very noticeable flash from the way it looks to me.

So there's that. That's a snapshot of the two extremes we find in gaming, the ultra-realistic and the "who gives a math" approaches, and the happy middleground Planetside 2 has found. Look at yonder photographs and imagine which is most appropriate for a MMO like Planetside, a game not about realism or scary mutants, but about fun gameplay and cool visuals. If you've decided what they've shown is what they should do, you are right. Everyone else is wrong. Always. You're always wrong.

I find the first planetside image too bright. Maybe it is the way the fog is illuminated, but that's a little too bright. Kinda hurt my eyes when I first looked at it.

I want it to look a "little" darker than this (http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/main/psnext/screenshots/20111119_4ec87e1d1591f.jpg)

[Vancha]

You're implying there is in saying that.
So, "Is there a reason to X? No, but there's no reason not to." is a contradictory statement to you?



The first two pictures, from ArmA and STALKER, are what VioletZero was advocating as far as I could tell. Various people agreed with her stance of "must use night vision or must not fight at night at all". That's unacceptable and as you can see from those shots night in realistically dark games is really dark.

Skyrim, on the other hand, is pretty silly. There is no detriment at all to visibility at night. Underground you might use a torch now and then but that's pushing it, even.

Finally, the last three images are night time shots from Planetside 2. I think they've found the perfect balance. First, it looks amazing. Very atmospheric. Second, it impairs vision somewhat but you're not crippled. There's still room for night vision, lamps for guns and helmets and stuff, and otherwise darkness-defeating options. BUT, you're hardly crippled by the lack of it. You can easily see off into the distance a ways, although there'd certainly be a greater potential for stealth. Conversely, firing a weapon would make a very noticeable flash from the way it looks to me.

So there's that. That's a snapshot of the two extremes we find in gaming, the ultra-realistic and the "who gives a math" approaches, and the happy middleground Planetside 2 has found. Look at yonder photographs and imagine which is most appropriate for a MMO like Planetside, a game not about realism or scary mutants, but about fun gameplay and cool visuals. If you've decided what they've shown is what they should do, you are right. Everyone else is wrong. Always. You're always wrong.
Yup, everyone's wrong. It doesn't come down to subjective opinion and it's not about the kind of gameplay people like...Nope, they're objectively wrong.

Using WaryWizard's picture as the basis, this (http://i.imgur.com/OvIn1.jpg) is what I'd rather see (or, not see).

[Warborn]

Yes. Everyone is wrong and subjectively objectively words words I was being fatuous, stop acting like this is an important thing that you need to care about.

[Vancha]

Yes. Everyone is wrong and subjectively objectively words words I was being fatuous, stop acting like this is an important thing that you need to care about.
I'm a no-lifer. I do care about it. :groovy:

[CuddlyChud]

I think environment should affect gameplay, but it should never dictate gameplay. I think night time in BF3 is about right. I don't want it so dark that i'm required to use a flashlight, but it should confer some advantage to those who do have one.

[Brokinarrow]

Maybe if they added some sort of adjustment for your eyes and such... for example, it takes about 30 minutes of sitting in darkness for your eyes to fully adjust so that you'll have your best "night vision" possible. They could have it take a few second to adjust your eyes in the game when you leave a well lit area or get flashed by a flashlight. Once your eyes are adjusted, it's still fairly dark but you can see decently enough to move around and spot enemy players that aren't hiding in shadows.

[BorisBlade]

Semi-related note - if you want to force leaning away from alltime-nightvision, you can make nightvision have some undesired visual effects for the user. Like a bright glow of a visor or something. So a person not using the NV will have advantage over the one with it.

Example:
TRCyclerPr0 runs with nighvision off.
ImarkpeoplENC snipes with nighvision off.
ImarkpeoplENC turns nightvision on to find TRCyclerPr0 on the field.
ImarkpeoplENC looks for a black sihloette on the green background.
Meanwhile TRCyclerPr0 spots a suddenly appearing blue glow coming from far infront.
TRCyclerPr0 shoots and kills ImarkpeoplENC.

Perfect idea, any game where you just obviously turn on night vision at night is plain awful. Just means you get terrible green nights. Personally i hate night vision period which is why i dont want it so dark as to need it, but i do want it much harder to see. Or at very least add the effect you suggest and with a very very grainy night vision. It must have plenty of downsides so that going without it can be bad due to less contrast but better due to more clarity and no blue glow and also allow for bright flashes to blind night vision users. I'd rather have no night than forced night vision, and i love dark nights.

[Rumblepit]

Mortal Online! this is why you need a torch at night! - YouTube

mortal online... very dark sometimes.

i was beta testing this game in 2010, the weather, seasons, and the moons cycle all effected how dark it got at night. in this video there is know moon out at all. this means you cant see your hand in front of your face. this was as dark as it got in the game and it didnt happen that often.but this had good and bad effects on gameplay.

[Hmr85]

Mortal Online! this is why you need a torch at night! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FenQQOblKjs)

mortal online... very dark sometimes.

i was beta testing this game in 2010, the weather, seasons, and the moons cycle all effected how dark it got at night. in this video there is know moon out at all. this means you cant see your hand in front of your face. this was as dark as it got in the game and it didnt happen that often.but this had good and bad effects on gameplay.

Oh, that's a little to dark lol. I am all for it being dark. But that is a tad much. Instead of my hand. I should at most see 50 to 100 yards out in front on the darkest nights in PS2. A form of NV/light would be nice.

[Rumblepit]

it is and it isnt. most nights when it got this dark it always seemed to provide the most interesting fights. lets say 1 night a week during a 4 hr moon cycle it gets this dark. what happens? well in that game most people would head back into their towns or villages /bases... then get ready to either attack or defend. in the cover of the night you move towards a very large well lit base and proceed to attack those standing in the light. so you end up with a night fight where the defenders have the advantage of their base to protect them, and the attackers have the advantage of the dark to protect them.it tends to be pretty intense.

from what ive seen from the in game footage ,with the tracers , explosions,and the lighting, it could make some good fights.

[Vancha]

Even if there were novelty nights like that once a week or something, even at it's darkest I wouldn't like it being that dark, except possibly indoors.

[Brokinarrow]

yeah, needs to be at least enough light to see the ground a LITTLE bit so that you can still make your way across the land.

[Rumblepit]

true not as dark as that but, dark enough to provide cover , so those that stand in the light cant see those in the dark.

i just see a well lit base with ambient light pushing out 50ft away from the base in every direction,surrounded by darkness. explosions having a aoe lighting effect, mussel flashes, tracer rounds, flares,.. i think it would be a pretty badass change of pace

[Traak]

For true darkness, you need the game coded for "no positional data sent to anyone past 10m away".

Anything else can be gamma-raped. But I can't gamma-correct you into glaring obviousness if the game is not telling me your whereabouts in the first place.

[VioletZero]

For true darkness, you need the game coded for "no positional data sent to anyone past 10m away".

Anything else can be gamma-raped. But I can't gamma-correct you into glaring obviousness if the game is not telling me your whereabouts in the first place.

That's not true.

That's only if the darkness is poorly designed.

[Synapses]

I really dont think there is anything to worry about in nightfall for PS2. I think it'll be right up to what we want to see, even the skydome. Even PS1's skydome was out of this world for what it was back then. They actually had a setting to turn it off/down.... I expect no less from PS2, and from what I have seen we are going to get some pretty epic night fights...

[SniperSteve]

I think that normal nights should be dark, but not needing a nightvision to navigate (though nightvision would be helpful), and then every few nights there is a really dark night that is basically BLACK. Like.. "Turn-up-yo-gamma-to-over-9000-and-you-still-see-black" black. Of course if you are near bases then there is some light, or if you have night vision or IR, then you are all set.

And yeah, like the other dude said. If you design it right, IE: something that is dark gets the value RGB(0,0,0) then gamma is not an issue.

[VioletZero]

I do think there should be night vision, but it should only be night vision scopes. So you can see in the dark, but it is tunnel vision.

[DayOne]

It needs to be dark. You should have difficulty telling if what you are seeing is an enemy or a hedge.

[Synapses]

Speaking of "dark nights" is there going to be a way for them to prevent some stupid ass kid or cheap $)#* from just turning up there gamma to get an advantage over others wanting to enjoy it and play by the rules?

[SniperSteve]

Speaking of "dark nights" is there going to be a way for them to prevent some stupid ass kid or cheap $)#* from just turning up there gamma to get an advantage over others wanting to enjoy it and play by the rules?

That is why most night times in games are just dark enough for you to tell that it is supposed to be dark and not so dark that it limits your visibility to the point that turning up the gamma would be an advantage.

If you want truely dark nights, you have to have a cutoff where it doesn't render things you should not be able to see.

[Synapses]

That is why most night times in games are just dark enough for you to tell that it is supposed to be dark and not so dark that it limits your visibility to the point that turning up the gamma would be an advantage.

If you want truely dark nights, you have to have a cutoff where it doesn't render things you should not be able to see.

Good point, I don't know if they could pull any of this off but it would be neat to have a couple nights in a weeks gameplay where its just pitch black, and you basically have to have NV, Thermal, or flashlight attachments to be effective. *shrug* I want to see it, even if its just something they try in beta too get the community response to it.

EDIT: Imagine a flash bang going off on one of these nights? *BANG* See ya later eye adjustment =P

I want to see this in game because of my RL military training and operations. I had a BLAST on training nights when it was OPFOR vs USAF Security Forces training. Nothing beat the thrill of going after someone when you cant see shit, it kept me on my feet and the visual can be fantastic. All the gun fire, and tracers going all over the place when they hit something metal (the .50 cal was so much fun for that).

[VioletZero]

That is why most night times in games are just dark enough for you to tell that it is supposed to be dark and not so dark that it limits your visibility to the point that turning up the gamma would be an advantage.

If you want truely dark nights, you have to have a cutoff where it doesn't render things you should not be able to see.

Or the darkness being a well designed veil where turning up the gamma would make the veil itself more visible but not much else.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

I'd like a 4-6 hour long day (24 hours, so time compression of 4x to 6x) That way, one good session will be a complete game day.

Also, moon phases to mix up the darkness to "gloom" So, put the full moon to full moon cycle on a IRL week long schedule.

This way, peak times (friday to sunday) can have close to full moon brightness at nights so that all the weekend warriors (you all know they are going to be the ones complaining most about the darkness) can have nights that you can still see in.

The serious players are more likely to log in during the week and also want darker nights.

so... win-win?

[DayOne]

But that's boring. What if you want to play during the day sometimes?

Earlier in the thread it was somewhat concluded that 7 hours is the optimal time. It gives a decent amount of day time and night time is one go and fits into a week. This means that throughout the week the 1 hour you may get to go on will be changing from day/night/sunrise/sunset.

[dsi]

But that's boring. What if you want to play during the day sometimes?

Earlier in the thread it was somewhat concluded that 7 hours is the optimal time. It gives a decent amount of day time and night time is one go and fits into a week. This means that throughout the week the 1 hour you may get to go on will be changing from day/night/sunrise/sunset.

This, the biggest deal is rotating times for people who play around the same time every day.

3 day hours, 3 night hours, 30 minutes of the dusk and dawn transitions. Sounds good to me.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

Earlier in the thread it was somewhat concluded that 7 hours is the optimal time. It gives a decent amount of day time and night time is one go and fits into a week. This means that throughout the week the 1 hour you may get to go on will be changing from day/night/sunrise/sunset.

So... 6 hours is too far away from 7 to be considered ok? :huh: I'm flexible! I actually thought I was pretty close to the median here, but anyway...

Nobody mentioned anything about my phases of the moon idea? Like? Not like?

6 hour game days gives 28 game days per real life week... Making it pretty bloody close to a lunar month per week.

Seems to me like we're arguing about if a 2mm rock is "gravel" or "sand" So I'm not gonna post in this thread anymore.

[cellinaire]

I want pitch black in some area =)

[Vancha]

So... 6 hours is too far away from 7 to be considered ok? :huh: I'm flexible! I actually thought I was pretty close to the median here, but anyway...

Nobody mentioned anything about my phases of the moon idea? Like? Not like?

6 hour game days gives 28 game days per real life week... Making it pretty bloody close to a lunar month per week.

Seems to me like we're arguing about if a 2mm rock is "gravel" or "sand" So I'm not gonna post in this thread anymore.
Think about it Stumpy. If you have 6 hour days, then people who can only play from say, 9-11pm will be playing in the dark every day. They'll never see daylight.

Meanwhile, if you increase it by just one hour, at the same time tomorrow the in-game time will be three hours ahead.

Eight doesn't work as well, five might be too short and nine is probably too long.

[Seagoon]

Uhm, the problem with people allways playing at night ingame is an easy one to solve:

Only half a planet is dark at any one time...

EDIT: not saying that it should not vary day by day, but its not going to be a massive problem if the devs implement the day/night cycle well in relation to the multiple contenents in the first place.

[DayOne]

Nobody mentioned anything about my phases of the moon idea? Like? Not like?

6 hour game days gives 28 game days per real life week... Making it pretty bloody close to a lunar month per week.

Well 7 hour days gives 24 days per week. That could be an Auraxian lunar cycle!

[Eighm]

Well 7 hour days gives 24 days per week. That could be an Auraxian lunar cycle!

That's an interesting concept. It's hard to remember you're dealing with fictional places when you try to apply real-world concepts to them sometimes.

[General M]

Did anyone else think that night time was distinctly not dark :/ - unless you count light blue as dark. :(

[Firefly]

Did anyone else think that night time was distinctly not dark :/ - unless you count light blue as dark. :(
I thought so, too.

[VioletZero]

At the very least, the night time is nice looking. So no complaints here...I guess.

[Firefly]

I'd not mind it being really dark. Like, 0-15% illumination. Every now and then throw some 80-90% illum from stars/moon, but mostly... dark. With a night-vision implant... or Flintstones vitamin, or whatever the fuck they're doing to implants (which is dumb... put that shit back the way it was).

It's really stupid to try and pawn off the idea that here we are fifty fucking thousand years into the future and there's only purple-dusk for night hours instead of night. Although really, with the red-name-equals-bad-guy system, especially with those Google Earth red markers over everyone, there's no point in having night vision. Just look for the "you are here" marker and shoot below it.

[Warborn]

Did anyone else think that night time was distinctly not dark :/ - unless you count light blue as dark. :(

I'm not sure how this is a surprise. They'd shown screenshots of night time before. And as I think I may have mentioned, this is not the kind of game where they could get away with a really dark night. It's dark enough to be nice and atmospheric and give some usefulness to night vision, but not so dark to shut down gameplay or force the use of nigh vision or whatever. It's exactly what everyone should have expected from a game like this.

[Firefly]

Delta Force: Land Warrior handled darkness very well, and it was made in what, 1999? 2000? But it required you to have your NVGs on, or you'd be fumbling about waiting for some bad guy to start shooting.

I can see that being a turn-off to the average FPS guy. But I wouldn't mind it at all.